NAIVE. We cannot say that hind sight is 20/20. You compare the Rhodesia situation to other comparable situations in history. History is a lighthouse that clearly warned Rhodesia the danger of giving up and compromise.(History: Ottoman Empire collapse, Russian Empire collase, Byzantine Empire collapse etc.)
There are Whites who despises George Washington, Quincy Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Kennedy, Reagan,,, just like there might have been "Blacks who despised Martin Luther King and Malcolm X".
In the end,,, THE VISIONARIES WHO PAID THEIR BLOOD FOR LIBERTY ACHIEVED THEIR GOAL.
Remember, the French Queen saying "Let them eat cake", this black man could have been beneficiary of Apartheid.
What part of this is unfounded? Westlands farm is real, my friend! It was an atrocity of greater magnitude than the bombing of the twin towers, sanctioned by a man, IDS, who had the morals of OBL. Dem are the facts Sury, like it or not!!!
@suryavajra ....Sury, your defense of this vicious regime, is extremely offensive. The Rhodesian Front was Africa's Nazi party, yet you defend it without qualification. This in itself is insulting, but perhaps more so to your own intelligence!
@suryavajra the equivalent of the nazi party....not the actual Nazi party. Sury, sometime you are quite sharp, but sometimes you can be a numbskull! (and i mean that in the nicest way!lol!)
@suryavajra ....do you make it a habit to back losers?.....McCain, Tamil Tigers, Rhodesian Front, Newt Gingrich....lol! Says something about you doesnt it!
@suryavajra G'day sury, hows things. have a guess where i have been and what i have been doing????Oh , hi zingy, still here i see, oh well you can't help bad luck.
@suryavajra , sure have!! Things are going from bad to worse! Got into rhodesia, was arrested because i asked about some farmers that i could not find, their whereabouts is uknown, plus i was accused of plotting against mugabe(this part was true, i am). I was trying to visit some of my black freinds, one who is a jurnolist, but they too have "gone away". Seems that when you question the government you all of a sudden "go away".Still a beautiful country, wildlife is a bit scarce though!!
Whoah.....a lot of stuff did happen to you. Glad you're back and doing okay. It really is a beautiful country with wonderful people, too bad they are stuck with someone they didn't deserve.
What makes the Ian Smith any different than the NAZIs?
Tyranny is still tyranny,,, German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish, Russian of African.
Just like the NAZIs bleed Europe, Ian Smith bleed Africa.
Ian Smith fighting against the German NAZIs, Japanese, Italian Fascists & Spanish Franco in WWII, supporting & serving the ENGLISH EMPIRE for material gains, military arms to bleed Africans is NOT any different than Mussolini & Franco joining Hitler to bleed & loot Europe.
@suryavajra ..That's like saying Al Qeada is misunderstood and the Yanks should have sat down and talk to OBL. You dont talk to such people Sury.....lest you become one of them. IDS was a chameleon - one day its "never in a thousand years", next day its "responsible majority rule". It was Britain, in its righteousness, that put an end to his treachery! That's the bottomline, no matter what spin you try to put on it!
There's no parallel between Al Qaeda and Rhodesia at all, Mr Zingy, none whatsoever. You are consumed by hatred for the Rhodesian people and you make some pretty wild stories there.
Britain gamed the system and manipulated the peoples of Africa, and in the end made out like bandits. That's the brutal truth. Whites, Blacks and Asians were victims and made prisoners.
@suryavajra if there was no parallel between the two it is only because the Rhodesian Font were responsible for more deaths and more acts of terror. These folks bombed children in refugee camps without a blink of an eye. Thats not about hatred - thats plain fact!
Spare me the spiel on what Britain did to Africa. Where do think all the slaves headed........perhaps America also has a bit of explaining to do in this space!!
Did you miss that your European ancestors EXTERMINATED each other since the Roman empire to WWII to present day Irish-Catholic & English Protestant mutual annihilation?
How much African blood have you spill-over, for 300yrs?
"IRRESPONSIBLE MAJORITY RULE"?,,, Oh really?
Last time I saw,,, Democracy was supposed to mean "majority rule"?
Then again,,, What did you expect from double-tongue English snakes, who massacred the Irish, Scots, Wales,,, etc, for 700 years?
@BahreNeGash You may want to check again, if you think democracy means majority rule. The Ancient Greeks, often trotted out as the inventors of democracy, only allowed a fraction of their population to vote and participate in gov't. Historically, democracy only involved the majority of the population beginning in the 20th century.
The Greek style of "DEMOCRACY" has been replaced by the HUDDLED MASSES WAITING TO BREATH FREE, rising up in arms, asserting their destiny.
The French Revolution & many other revolutions after that, PROVES the "few privileged tyrants", deciding the fate & destiny of a nation in the name of "democracy", at the expense of the "HUDDLED MASSES WAITING TO BREATH FREE" is as dead as Ian Smith.
@BahreNeGash The "huddled masses" rhetoric was used by Marx/Engels. No thanks. Most revolutions did nothing for the masses and were started by intellectuals who that they knew better. To take the French example, in the course of their revolution they killed thousands of innocent people and at times used the dead skin of their victims to make pants to wear as trophies. They were savages. If that's who you support then that says it all.
The reference, "huddled masses" got nothing to do Marx/Engles.
WAY BEFORE MARX/ENGLES, It is the inscription & promises of US "Statue of Liberty", bestowed in October 28, 1886 to American Independence by the French people.
THEREFORE, I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE HEADING WITH WITH MARX/ENGELS, denouncing Communism while covering up for the crimes of Ian Smith. Good try, some of us know better.
SURE, those who REVOLT against tyranny are forced to extremes by centuries of oppression.
Sorry it's taken me awhile to respond. I wanted to come back points that did justice to your well thoughout posts!
Well about Greece, you gotta first point out that the majority of the Greek states were in fact not democracies. Indeed in Athens, democracy meant that all citizens get one vote. However, in Athens when you read about Alcibides and how he got elected again and again even though he engaged in treason against his own city-state show-cases a basic flaw in (cont)
pure democracy. As for Smith, I do not think he was a democrat. I think he was closer to republicanism.
Now for each one of your points, here's my response.
1) There were NO Russian tanks when the East Germans broke down the Wall.
2) We cannot reasonably be sure about the protests in the Middle East so long as they are still going on. For all you know they may morph into something else. Libya may well be a case about anti-Qaddafi Cyrenaican seperatist (cont)
Tribes with Islamist leanings attempting to topple the regime. In Syria, what do you think would be the plight of minorities, when the Sunni majority of some 90% take over from a minority Alawi dictatorship that nominally called themselves Baathists?? You can expect in an out and out democracy, the Sunnis would oppress all of the minorities in Syria if not scenes of sectarian violence and bloodshed.
You brought up Greece, I merely sought to answer and educate.
Also you in providing this quote, you mention only one half of the proverb. You miss the other half of the proverb altogether, hence you jump to wild eyed accusations and polemic.
I'm NOT sure which century you are still living in.
In case you missed the people's power, look at the people's revolt & riots in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen,,,, etc. Ian Smith would NEVER had a chance to stay.
Well the final chapter has yet to be written. We have no idea if this is the People's power or not. Suppose in Egypt, Hamas comes to power and promptly puts and end to fledgling democracy?? Suppose we end up wit ha Conservative Islamist Cyrenaican regime in charge of Libya?? Suppose a Sunni regime newly elected in Egpyt either stands aside or actively participates in violence against Allawi and Druze minorities?? What if in Yemen, you get an Islamist government with (cont)
secret relations with Al Qaeda?? So you see?? None of the people power's theory in the Middle East has been actually cut in stone yet. These are sweeping changes that are still on-going, and you or I still don't know how it will end up.
As for Smith, he did what he could given the state of politics at the time. Hell he was better than the guy that took over in 1980. How's that working out for Zim??
Ofcourse it is, because Smithy has passed away a couple of years ago...lol! You're dealing with the Days of Mugabe now, bud. These days makes that days of Ian Smith like a cake walk through candy land. And after Mugabe you're either gonna get the Joyce and Solomon Mujuru or Perence Shiri, the self-styled Black Jesus. Either way, it gets worse there, bud...lol!
Whoah, hold on their partner.....People of my kind?? What kind might that be, hmmmmm???
Pal, I don't know if you know this, but Smithy was a Rhodesian/'Zimbabwean from birth. And his ''own kind'' would be Zimbabwean citizens whether you like the man or not, whether you think he was a hero or a villain. So let's get that out of the way first.
Second, Mugabe has been far worse than Smith. You have a problem with Smith, you have a real doozy with Mugabe.
Oh and FYI, I hope it does not take Africans an eternity to deal with Mugabe and his cronies before arriving at some sort of functioning representative government there....
I got news for you. Ian Smith wasn't part of that 300 year dyansty either. You don't think he was put down by the English because he was a White African?? Think again, my friend.
Smith was an African, born on African soil. He died on African soil.
One can say it was he who was the first African born leader of Rhodesia. You don't think he would of faced a hard time for that?? Also remember, his father was working class Black smith immigrant, not a member of the British aristocracy there.
@BahreNeGash What will also stay long after white rule is poverty and corruption. Black Africans have not got the intelligence or indeed the will to run a stable democracy. They live for today and have no thought for tomorrow. Blacks are poor because of the way they think and you cannont blame Europeans for that, but I am sure you will keep trying. Unless black people act and think differently they will always be at the bottom. Spend it all today and forget tomorrow is their motto.
Your "Democracy" is not worth the toilet paper you clean your ass with.
FYI: Africans lived on their own while you left your frozen European caves in leaky boats, seeking a place to call home. THEREFORE, WHO ARE TRYING TO DECEIVE?
In case you miss it, the 3000yrs of Roman GENOCIDAL CRUSADERS, IRISH POTATO FAMINES, GYPSY & JEWS HOLOCAUSTS, perpetuated by your PREDATOR ANCESTORS does NOT give credence to your stay in Africa.
TO ESCAPE YOUR MISERY, YOU NEEDED AFRICA, WHEN AFRICANS NEVER NEEDED YOU.
@BahreNeGash Your hatred for the West is totally baseless. Among other things, the West is not a single united entity, but many states and ethnic groups constantly fighting among themselves for supremacy (Frenc VS Germans, English VS French, etc etc). I am Italian, so I can understand the hatred that you eritrean try for us. But you've to assume that not all whites are bad and evil. Not so.
1. said all Whites are the same race or empire empire.
2. expressed "hatred for the West".
NOT surprisingly, EVERY TIME AFRICANS EXPOSE THE CRIMES OF VARIOUS EUROPEAN EMPIRES AGAINST AFRICANS, EUROPEANS ACCUSE AFRICANS OF "HATRED TO THE WEST".
While this is a very familiar defense mechanism, to cover up the crimes of various European empires, the TRUTH is that exterminating AFRICANS in the name of "democracy" ain't very convincing.
THE VICTIMS ARE NOT WILLING TO BE DECEIVED ANYMORE.
As colonial force, the Italians may have occupied Eritrea but the Italians NEVER displaced Ertreans from their native homelands or EXTERMINATED Eritreans to make space for Italians, nor did the
Italians tried to FORCE Eritreans to succumb to "Western Democracy".
Having respected the native Eritreans & their indigenous Eritrean heritage, faith & culture, the Italians earned respect from Eritreans.
Therefore, as much as the Italians had compassion fr Eritreans, so did the Eritreans.
@BahreNeGash we (italians) have never do a massive african genocide like english, dutch or belgians...about 50.000 eritrean were part of italian army (the "Ascari") and have italian citizensh...also, we italians are hated by most part of West because we have black hairs and brown/black eyes and olive skin...as you can see, the term "west" is very relative. A english don't consider Italy "West", but most african actually do this and feel an unmotivated hate for us.
Africans may GENERALLY blame EUROPEANS to many CRIMES committed in Africa.
But when it comes to details, AFRICANS know the 500yrs African NIGHTMARE was committed by the English, Dutches, French, Portuguese, Spaniards & Turks.
In fact, the ENGLISH committed more crimes on their own kind, the Irish, Scots & Wales than on Africans. NO WONDER AFRICANS STILL REFER THE ENGLISH as "THE SMILING SNAKE".
(It is still a very common daily term among Africans to name UNTRUSTWORTHY FRIEND the "English").
Empires rise & empires fall, just like all other marauding predator scavenger mercenary empires before.
Thanks to human history, the endeavor to overcome suppression & the will power & determination to seek liberty, every empire has an expiration date like spoiled milk, crumbling in the very hands of it's won victims.
Human history NEVER succumbs to scavenger mercenary predators.
@BahreNeGash You still Haven't answered my Question, What are, in your opinion, the four most Successful nations outside of Europe, in terms of Living Conditions and Prosperity.
"1. Because they were intellectually Superior, unfortunately not Morally, And I would like to see the backing up behind the "70 Million" remark.
2. The Vast Majority of Europeans still live in Europe, as point of fact, the reason for colonisation was overpopulation, which was a direct result of the swift advance of medical science.
3. Quote-"Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of Life". But the answer to No.2 will suffice"
Sure, In your WICKED SADIST heritage, culture & mindset, people who EXTERMINATED each other for 3000yrs, since the Roman empire to present day Irish catholics- vs English Protestants are "intellectually Superior.
Europeans LEFT Europe 500yrs ago, claiming to escape "religious Prosecution, famines & endless wars".
@BahreNeGash This conversation is akin to a broken pencil. You scream (unless your caps are used for some other purpose) the same dribble each time. I removed my comment because the word limit would not let me write more.
Your arguments makeno sense, were I to state the sky was blue, you would probably bring up the massacres of Adolf hitler, and claim englishmen were behind it.
@BahreNeGash You still Haven't answered my Question, What are, in your opinion, the four most Successful nations outside of Europe, in terms of Living Conditions and Prosperity.
The past has nothing to do with present living conditions and prosperity, and if you think that Europe is a cess pit, then you are quite well deluded.
@BahreNeGash I'm happy about that. In Italy we have many immigrants Tigrai, Tigrè and Begi, and they are all exceptional and very good people.
Unfortunately, after the defeat of Mussolini and the end of monarchy, 66 years of american occupation of our country have greatly undermined our culture and our values... we are dying, as the entire West. You Africans are the future for the World, but take great attention: in the East, in Asia, new empires are emerging, and they dream of Africa.
NATO bombarding Libya, I see many Africans escaping Libya for the safety of Italy, proving Africans trust Italy more than ANY part of Europe.y.
Sadly, Europeans seeking African resources continue to bleed Africans, again & again, century after century.
Sure, Asia continue to have INTEREST in Africa. But Africans having learned from the 500yrs of misery, they will NOT allow ASIA to commit the same crimes against Africans.
Hopefully, there will be a better future for all mankind.
It's true that I have never had the opportunity to visit Africa. But does visiting automatically lead to knowlege?? Not always. I've read a lot about Africa, and enough to have real appreciation if and when I do get to go there. So that is another logical fallacy on your part.
As for Smith, he was a pro-American, anti-communist African leader. So if anything there's enough common ground to be had with the man and room to negotiate and offer constructive criticism.
@suryavajra ... just like the Rhodies you play the "Communist terrorist" card to justify blatant and unadulterated racism. Where was the communism other than in the mind of Smithy who thought he could fool Kissinger into supporting him? The war was a war of liberation and not about the need to instill a particular doctrine. China is run by a Communist government.....dont see you or anyone else threatening to take them on? So there's your double standard right there.
Well you can find out more about if you read the book, ''The World would of been Ours'' which were published off the Mitrokhin KGB archives. ZANU was supported by the Red Chinese, while ZAPU was supported by the USSR and the Eastern Bloc states.
@suryavajra oh please....is this your CIA based theory? No wonder you buffoons make a dick up of everything! Doing a crappy job in Libya too! Everyone was against Rhodesia Brits, Russians, Americans...in fact the greatest supporters were the Nordic country. Where was "Red China" after independence....perhaps it was more about ridding the world of a human devil rather than just spreading political doctrine.
Now, now Mr. Zingy, I gave you a source. If you don't believe me, why don't you find this book and read it for yourself?? It was written by an ex-KGB agent, not CIA. So there you have it.
As for Red China, they are the biggest backers of the Mugabe regime. Indeed it has been argued that there is one Imperialistic power that has benefited in Africa with the end of colonialism, and that is Red China.
@suryavajra ...did you see the ex-KGB agent write the book or the CIA told you that an ex-KGB agent wrote the book. So naive!
i lived in Zimbabwe in the 90's ..didnt come across any Chinese banks, petroleum companies, insurance houses, mines.......its was Barclays, Standard Chartered, Mobil, Caltex, BP, Shell, Anglo American, Lonrho, Sheraton et al. Not very Red, not very Chinese, not very communist.
Well go ahead, read the book, make up your own mind and talk to me about it.
As for the '90s, I think Zimbabwe has changed completely since then. Yes, at the time you had all of these Western corporations operating there, but remember that Mugabe's elite go-to 5th Brigade which was responsible for the Matabeland Massacres were trained by the North Koreans. Mugabe gets most of his arms and ammo from the Chinese. So militarily and economically now, Mugabe's moved to Chinese.
@suryavajra ....Chinese are actually the biggest source of cash for the US Government. Who do you think is buying all those Treasury Bills? Does that mean the US has gone commie on us?
That's actually a good point Zingy. I do feel that the US as it's borrowing from the Chinese government is becoming more and more indebted to them, not a good thing. We're not Communist as being communist means that you believe that government should own all means of production. However bailout and stimulus indicates government interference in the economy motivated by perhaps a sense of cronyism that has seeped into our system??
@suryavajra .....all my points are good Sury, and its about time you starter acknowledging that fact!!!!lol!!! Powers of Federal Government akin to Communism.
That is not it at all. For a government to be communist, the government must seek to control ALL means of production. That is the very definition of communism. We do not have that in the US. What we have is something different.
@suryavajra .....control is always in a Communist regime is not always through equity participation. Lots of private companies in the People Communist Republic of China. Control can be through excessive regulation, as in China AND the US.
Well the largest home grown companies in China are still the state-run corporations with direct linkages to the CCP. Infact even outsiders coming into China have to give up the majority of their local market share to Chinese control. It's not technically communism, but it's state controlled capitalism.
In pure communism, the state owns ALL means of production. It would also be a command economy in that demand is set by non-market actors such as the government and the commissars.
@suryavajra ...you ungrateful little sod....after we civilised you, you turn against us!!lol!! If you were Rhodesian and Smithy were still alive you would still be languishing in the "Indian quarters" of Salisbury wondering what the inside of a polling station looked like!!! There's your hero for you!
@suryavajra ...why would I be angry? I would say more intrigued by the fact that you idolise a man who is on record saying that your lot are too daft to vote.
well you sounded angry there, with all those exclamation points going on...lol! So he went on record did he? Could you provide the actual quote so I can read it for myself?
You sounded furious....lol! You called me an ''ungrateful sod'', and tried to claim that you ''civilized'' me. That seems to indicate a sense of bitterness as well...lol!
Well now here's your anger coming out again. Why do you hate that one guy? There were other Rhodesian Prime Ministers you know, all of whom born outside of Rhodesia. Ironic, wouldn't you say, my boy?
@suryavajra ...you are a way off from earning my trust for me to share that. Let's just say it goes back a while! However, i feel I can claim to speak for the sane majority when i say the man was a despicable excuse for a human!
Why the secrecy? I've been hearing your temper tantrums for a year and half now. It's clear that you wanna let it off your chest. So I'm providing the shoulder for you to cry on...
crackers all talk shit
BashuUp 3 days ago
Zimbabwe is a true African country now.
kynismos 4 days ago
Ian smith was a true statesmen who cared about his nation. the world dont porduce statesmen just politicians
sass225 1 month ago
Stupid crackers kill them all!!
DEM2600 1 month ago
Ian Smith - A bit of an Idiot
MrZingy 2 months ago
What a Man! RESPECT !!!
volksiekombie 2 months ago
A toast to Ian Smith.
MrPenfold84 2 months ago 2
Hooray for ian Smith. What a man he was.
MrPenfold84 2 months ago 2
A gentleman and a scholar. Blessings from Ireland.
macw2234 2 months ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
VIVAAAAAAAA MUGABEEEEEEEEE
thevillain091 3 months ago
Ian Smith was a great leader.Long live Rhodesia
prdubi 3 months ago 7
Ian Smith was a great leader
prdubi 3 months ago 7
RIP Ian Smith !
Rhodesia was a great country !
Fuck the zimbaboon of Mugabe the ape !
TheLolovonparis 4 months ago 6
I think Ian Smith made one mistake, He should have had the Selous Scouts and the SAS put a bullet in Mugabe and Nkomo's head.
uncleavi2002 4 months ago 3
I glad my mother and father were Rhodesian
MsTaz98 4 months ago
Pamwe chete!!
TheCHARGER426 5 months ago
A brave man. He deserved better, for himself and his country.
huntergratzner1 5 months ago 2
@huntergratzner1 ...no, he deserved to be swung from a tree!
DeathWarmedUp1000 5 months ago
Ian Smith - one of the greatest leaders of the 20th century
Jimnik088 6 months ago 36
Ian Smith was a fine gentleman.
TWCization 6 months ago
@TWCization ....and a scoundrel of note!!!!
DeathWarmedUp1000 6 months ago
@DeathWarmedUp1000 a damn good scoundrel not like that fucking monkey intent in starving his own people and ruining that once fine country.
bantermelon 6 months ago
@bantermelon Mugabe = Smith = Mugabe = Smith. One insane megalomanic despot replaced another.
DeathWarmedUp1000 6 months ago
@DeathWarmedUp1000
hello there my Zambian friend! lol!
suryavajra 6 months ago
If the "voiceless of the nation" have decided their fate, their fate is not very promising, in fact its pretty dam grim from what I can see.
bigh560 7 months ago in playlist Rhodesia
Ian Smith was right. It is so sad what my former home has become
xxstigmataxx 7 months ago
@xxstigmataxx
If Ian Smith can NOT save his fate, rotting under six feet in the ground, certianly Ian Smith can NOT save "your country".
LET THE VOICELESS OF THE NATION DECIDE THEIR FATE.
BahreNeGash 7 months ago
NAIVE. We cannot say that hind sight is 20/20. You compare the Rhodesia situation to other comparable situations in history. History is a lighthouse that clearly warned Rhodesia the danger of giving up and compromise.(History: Ottoman Empire collapse, Russian Empire collase, Byzantine Empire collapse etc.)
Tarapsa 7 months ago
There are Blacks who despised Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. Zimbabwe for Zimbabweans. The black man look as though he was tortued.
kofi7777 7 months ago
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BahreNeGash 7 months ago
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@kofi7777
Pianki,
There are Whites who despises George Washington, Quincy Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Kennedy, Reagan,,, just like there might have been "Blacks who despised Martin Luther King and Malcolm X".
In the end,,, THE VISIONARIES WHO PAID THEIR BLOOD FOR LIBERTY ACHIEVED THEIR GOAL.
Remember, the French Queen saying "Let them eat cake", this black man could have been beneficiary of Apartheid.
BahreNeGash 7 months ago
Yet another devil is dead. there is a need to rid them all out of Zim.
kofi7777 7 months ago
@kofi7777 God Bless Rhodesia. God Bless Ian Douglas Smith. Watch again and listen to the black man... you may learn something.
RhodesianBok 7 months ago 16
Yet another devil is dead.
kofi7777 7 months ago
Im glad this moron is dead! Racist scum! Zimbabwe is for Zimbabweans! Leave us alone!
depth2009 8 months ago
What part of this is unfounded? Westlands farm is real, my friend! It was an atrocity of greater magnitude than the bombing of the twin towers, sanctioned by a man, IDS, who had the morals of OBL. Dem are the facts Sury, like it or not!!!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Westlands farms?? That's where ZIPRA was camped out!! lol!
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ....you saw them camped there....or you just listen to Smithy's propaganda?
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Mr hard working Rhodesian friends, some of whom were there, told me.
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra they were there? yer right! you are so gullible my dear friend....a used car salesman's dream!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
this is your contribution to a civilized debate?
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ..how can we have a civilised debate, when i'm the only one who brings civility to the table?!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
And I'm not bringing civility to the table?? I haven't insulted you, have I??
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ....Sury, your defense of this vicious regime, is extremely offensive. The Rhodesian Front was Africa's Nazi party, yet you defend it without qualification. This in itself is insulting, but perhaps more so to your own intelligence!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Africa's Nazi party?? How so when a lot of those guys fought against the actual Nazis in WW2?
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra the equivalent of the nazi party....not the actual Nazi party. Sury, sometime you are quite sharp, but sometimes you can be a numbskull! (and i mean that in the nicest way!lol!)
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Well it seems to me that Nazism has a real specific meaning, and cannot just be hurled around....
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ...you're losing it mate!!!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
I think you lost it a long time ago, Zingy...
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ....do you make it a habit to back losers?.....McCain, Tamil Tigers, Rhodesian Front, Newt Gingrich....lol! Says something about you doesnt it!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Why don't you try to have a civil conversation here, son??
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ....dont think its possible to have a civil conversation with someone who is not civilised. You certainly have some growing up to do yet!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
oh relax, Zingy...lol! You need to chill out, man....
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra .....listen Sury, when i need your advise i will say so. I wouldnt hold your breath for it either.
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Wow, you sound mad....lol!
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra mad? I'm flippin' furious!!!!!lol
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
could I ask, why?
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ...nope!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@suryavajra G'day sury, hows things. have a guess where i have been and what i have been doing????Oh , hi zingy, still here i see, oh well you can't help bad luck.
whiteozzie1 6 months ago
@whiteozzie1
Hey there White Ozzie!!! Geeez, have you been to SA recently?? That's my guess.....
suryavajra 6 months ago
@suryavajra , sure have!! Things are going from bad to worse! Got into rhodesia, was arrested because i asked about some farmers that i could not find, their whereabouts is uknown, plus i was accused of plotting against mugabe(this part was true, i am). I was trying to visit some of my black freinds, one who is a jurnolist, but they too have "gone away". Seems that when you question the government you all of a sudden "go away".Still a beautiful country, wildlife is a bit scarce though!!
whiteozzie1 6 months ago
@whiteozzie1
Whoah.....a lot of stuff did happen to you. Glad you're back and doing okay. It really is a beautiful country with wonderful people, too bad they are stuck with someone they didn't deserve.
suryavajra 6 months ago
@suryavajra
What makes the Ian Smith any different than the NAZIs?
Tyranny is still tyranny,,, German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish, Russian of African.
Just like the NAZIs bleed Europe, Ian Smith bleed Africa.
Ian Smith fighting against the German NAZIs, Japanese, Italian Fascists & Spanish Franco in WWII, supporting & serving the ENGLISH EMPIRE for material gains, military arms to bleed Africans is NOT any different than Mussolini & Franco joining Hitler to bleed & loot Europe.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
These people are not Evil. they were misunderstood and badly maligned. you had only to talk with them, instead of talk down on them.
Yes, I understand it when they talk about Perfidious Albion, unfortunately. There's too many seeds of truth there.
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ..That's like saying Al Qeada is misunderstood and the Yanks should have sat down and talk to OBL. You dont talk to such people Sury.....lest you become one of them. IDS was a chameleon - one day its "never in a thousand years", next day its "responsible majority rule". It was Britain, in its righteousness, that put an end to his treachery! That's the bottomline, no matter what spin you try to put on it!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
There's no parallel between Al Qaeda and Rhodesia at all, Mr Zingy, none whatsoever. You are consumed by hatred for the Rhodesian people and you make some pretty wild stories there.
Britain gamed the system and manipulated the peoples of Africa, and in the end made out like bandits. That's the brutal truth. Whites, Blacks and Asians were victims and made prisoners.
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra if there was no parallel between the two it is only because the Rhodesian Font were responsible for more deaths and more acts of terror. These folks bombed children in refugee camps without a blink of an eye. Thats not about hatred - thats plain fact!
Spare me the spiel on what Britain did to Africa. Where do think all the slaves headed........perhaps America also has a bit of explaining to do in this space!!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Now you are making unfounded accusations there.
suryavajra 8 months ago
Look who is preaching,,,,?
Did you miss that your European ancestors EXTERMINATED each other since the Roman empire to WWII to present day Irish-Catholic & English Protestant mutual annihilation?
How much African blood have you spill-over, for 300yrs?
"IRRESPONSIBLE MAJORITY RULE"?,,, Oh really?
Last time I saw,,, Democracy was supposed to mean "majority rule"?
Then again,,, What did you expect from double-tongue English snakes, who massacred the Irish, Scots, Wales,,, etc, for 700 years?
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash You may want to check again, if you think democracy means majority rule. The Ancient Greeks, often trotted out as the inventors of democracy, only allowed a fraction of their population to vote and participate in gov't. Historically, democracy only involved the majority of the population beginning in the 20th century.
TorreyGilday 8 months ago
@TorreyGilday
The days of GREEKS have been long gone.
It's a whole different millennial.
The Greek style of "DEMOCRACY" has been replaced by the HUDDLED MASSES WAITING TO BREATH FREE, rising up in arms, asserting their destiny.
The French Revolution & many other revolutions after that, PROVES the "few privileged tyrants", deciding the fate & destiny of a nation in the name of "democracy", at the expense of the "HUDDLED MASSES WAITING TO BREATH FREE" is as dead as Ian Smith.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash The "huddled masses" rhetoric was used by Marx/Engels. No thanks. Most revolutions did nothing for the masses and were started by intellectuals who that they knew better. To take the French example, in the course of their revolution they killed thousands of innocent people and at times used the dead skin of their victims to make pants to wear as trophies. They were savages. If that's who you support then that says it all.
TorreyGilday 8 months ago
@TorreyGilday
The reference, "huddled masses" got nothing to do Marx/Engles.
WAY BEFORE MARX/ENGLES, It is the inscription & promises of US "Statue of Liberty", bestowed in October 28, 1886 to American Independence by the French people.
THEREFORE, I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE HEADING WITH WITH MARX/ENGELS, denouncing Communism while covering up for the crimes of Ian Smith. Good try, some of us know better.
SURE, those who REVOLT against tyranny are forced to extremes by centuries of oppression.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
Actually Marx and Engels were around and kicking about twenty years before the Statue of Liberty was put up.
However, you're right in that the ''huddled masses'' imagery is not derived from Marxism.
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
Good you NOTICED the "huddled masses" I referred had NOTHING to do with Communist totalitarians.
How ever the Greeks or Ian Smith DEFINE "Democracy", you saw,
1. the German people taking the matters in to their own hands breaking the Berlin Wall, defying Russian tanks.
2. the people in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen,,, etc, RIOTING, REVOLTING & OVER THROWING TYRANTS.
Therefore, at the end of the day, the MAJORITY decide their own destiny & fate.
IT'S ALWAYS A MATTER OF TIME.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
Sorry it's taken me awhile to respond. I wanted to come back points that did justice to your well thoughout posts!
Well about Greece, you gotta first point out that the majority of the Greek states were in fact not democracies. Indeed in Athens, democracy meant that all citizens get one vote. However, in Athens when you read about Alcibides and how he got elected again and again even though he engaged in treason against his own city-state show-cases a basic flaw in (cont)
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
pure democracy. As for Smith, I do not think he was a democrat. I think he was closer to republicanism.
Now for each one of your points, here's my response.
1) There were NO Russian tanks when the East Germans broke down the Wall.
2) We cannot reasonably be sure about the protests in the Middle East so long as they are still going on. For all you know they may morph into something else. Libya may well be a case about anti-Qaddafi Cyrenaican seperatist (cont)
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
Tribes with Islamist leanings attempting to topple the regime. In Syria, what do you think would be the plight of minorities, when the Sunni majority of some 90% take over from a minority Alawi dictatorship that nominally called themselves Baathists?? You can expect in an out and out democracy, the Sunnis would oppress all of the minorities in Syria if not scenes of sectarian violence and bloodshed.
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
Too bad the DAYS of Greece are long gone, to sustain your argument.
No matter how you dice it, bake it, slice it,,,,
"The Majority of a nation decide their own fate & destiny on their terms".
The days of English Kings, mercenary tyrants, dictators, Ian Smiths, deciding the fate of a nation has been gone for along time now.
WELCOME TO THE NEW WORLD, unless of course, you wanted to follow Ian Smith to his grave.
GOOD RIDDANCE!!!
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
You brought up Greece, I merely sought to answer and educate.
Also you in providing this quote, you mention only one half of the proverb. You miss the other half of the proverb altogether, hence you jump to wild eyed accusations and polemic.
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
I'm NOT sure which century you are still living in.
In case you missed the people's power, look at the people's revolt & riots in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen,,,, etc. Ian Smith would NEVER had a chance to stay.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
Well the final chapter has yet to be written. We have no idea if this is the People's power or not. Suppose in Egypt, Hamas comes to power and promptly puts and end to fledgling democracy?? Suppose we end up wit ha Conservative Islamist Cyrenaican regime in charge of Libya?? Suppose a Sunni regime newly elected in Egpyt either stands aside or actively participates in violence against Allawi and Druze minorities?? What if in Yemen, you get an Islamist government with (cont)
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
secret relations with Al Qaeda?? So you see?? None of the people power's theory in the Middle East has been actually cut in stone yet. These are sweeping changes that are still on-going, and you or I still don't know how it will end up.
As for Smith, he did what he could given the state of politics at the time. Hell he was better than the guy that took over in 1980. How's that working out for Zim??
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
The final chapter is Ian Smith & the days of Ian Smith is gone for good.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
Ofcourse it is, because Smithy has passed away a couple of years ago...lol! You're dealing with the Days of Mugabe now, bud. These days makes that days of Ian Smith like a cake walk through candy land. And after Mugabe you're either gonna get the Joyce and Solomon Mujuru or Perence Shiri, the self-styled Black Jesus. Either way, it gets worse there, bud...lol!
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
It's good you finally got the message.
Sure, for Ian Smith & people of your kind, Africans taking over their ancestral lands with out your blessings is a nightmare you can NEVER live with.
YOU NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH IAN SMITH & HIS ANCESTORS EXTERMINATING, MASSACRING & DISPLACING AFRICANS FOR CENTURIES.
You just have a problem at Mugabe deflating your inflated egos & forged prestige.
FYI: Africans managed their problems since eternity, way before you landed in African shores.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
Whoah, hold on their partner.....People of my kind?? What kind might that be, hmmmmm???
Pal, I don't know if you know this, but Smithy was a Rhodesian/'Zimbabwean from birth. And his ''own kind'' would be Zimbabwean citizens whether you like the man or not, whether you think he was a hero or a villain. So let's get that out of the way first.
Second, Mugabe has been far worse than Smith. You have a problem with Smith, you have a real doozy with Mugabe.
suryavajra 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
Oh and FYI, I hope it does not take Africans an eternity to deal with Mugabe and his cronies before arriving at some sort of functioning representative government there....
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
Why shed your crocodile tears for African when the English are EXTERMINATION Irish Catholics.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
I'm not English there, bud, so that line won't work with me. Yes the English were real sons of bitches.
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
Still,,, Why shed your crocodile tears for Africa?
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
Why do you repeat this question?
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
Because, I ant to know why you are shedding your crocodile tears for Africa?
What's in it for you?
Why NOT leave Africans alone, as much as Africans NEVER have been on your way?
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
Why do you term it as ''crocodile tears''? You don't know me, bud....lol!
Why don't you stay on topic? I believe we were talking about democracy here?
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
Keep your democracy to yourself, no one is asking you to share your deception.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
You were talking about democracy first, remember?? I was correcting you on democracy...lol!
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
Why NOT deliver your "democracy" in silver plate, to the Irish-Catholics, Scots & Wales, who have been ENSLAVED by the English for more than 700yrs?
As for Africans, they have CENTURIES OLD HERITAGES to live by.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
Centuries old Heritage?? What does that have to do with Bob Mugabe??
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
Mugabe's HERITAGE has been in Zimbabewe, way before you came to Africa & will stay long after you are gone from Africa.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
So does that give him any right to impose his one man, one party rule over all of the other people in Zimbabwe using fear, force and coercion??
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
One obvious VICTORY is Mugabe ain't the Ian Smith's 300yrs dynasty, who exterminated, looted & displaced Africans.
MUGABE OR NO MUGABE, WHY NOT LET AFRICANS DECIDE THEIR OWN FATE OR DESTINY?
SOAR GRAPE,
You are just having hard time swallowing the lose of the privileges you have been accustomed to, at the expense of millions of Africans.
Therefore, it's ONLY natural to see you bleeding your heart out under any other name, as if you have any good intentions for Africa & Africans.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
I got news for you. Ian Smith wasn't part of that 300 year dyansty either. You don't think he was put down by the English because he was a White African?? Think again, my friend.
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
Oh Yeah,,, SURE, English or NO-English, Ian Smith represents the CANCER-VIRUS that exterminated Africans.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash
Smith was an African, born on African soil. He died on African soil.
One can say it was he who was the first African born leader of Rhodesia. You don't think he would of faced a hard time for that?? Also remember, his father was working class Black smith immigrant, not a member of the British aristocracy there.
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra
Smith & the English are nothing more than TWO FACES of the same coin.
As much as the English EXTERMINATED & DISPLACED AFRICANS, so did smith & his ancestors.
In the end, the INDIGENOUS AFRICANS managed to decide their own fate or destiny.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@suryavajra ....yup....he was a peasant and acted like an uneducated one!! Certainly no " blue blood" in Smithy's veins!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Now now Zingy, that's more of your class bias coming out...lol!
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ...true, we all have our weaknesses! At least I admit it.lol!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash What will also stay long after white rule is poverty and corruption. Black Africans have not got the intelligence or indeed the will to run a stable democracy. They live for today and have no thought for tomorrow. Blacks are poor because of the way they think and you cannont blame Europeans for that, but I am sure you will keep trying. Unless black people act and think differently they will always be at the bottom. Spend it all today and forget tomorrow is their motto.
adelaide102 8 months ago
Your "Democracy" is not worth the toilet paper you clean your ass with.
FYI: Africans lived on their own while you left your frozen European caves in leaky boats, seeking a place to call home. THEREFORE, WHO ARE TRYING TO DECEIVE?
In case you miss it, the 3000yrs of Roman GENOCIDAL CRUSADERS, IRISH POTATO FAMINES, GYPSY & JEWS HOLOCAUSTS, perpetuated by your PREDATOR ANCESTORS does NOT give credence to your stay in Africa.
TO ESCAPE YOUR MISERY, YOU NEEDED AFRICA, WHEN AFRICANS NEVER NEEDED YOU.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash Your hatred for the West is totally baseless. Among other things, the West is not a single united entity, but many states and ethnic groups constantly fighting among themselves for supremacy (Frenc VS Germans, English VS French, etc etc). I am Italian, so I can understand the hatred that you eritrean try for us. But you've to assume that not all whites are bad and evil. Not so.
Antralian 8 months ago
I NEVER,
1. said all Whites are the same race or empire empire.
2. expressed "hatred for the West".
NOT surprisingly, EVERY TIME AFRICANS EXPOSE THE CRIMES OF VARIOUS EUROPEAN EMPIRES AGAINST AFRICANS, EUROPEANS ACCUSE AFRICANS OF "HATRED TO THE WEST".
While this is a very familiar defense mechanism, to cover up the crimes of various European empires, the TRUTH is that exterminating AFRICANS in the name of "democracy" ain't very convincing.
THE VICTIMS ARE NOT WILLING TO BE DECEIVED ANYMORE.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@Antralian
As colonial force, the Italians may have occupied Eritrea but the Italians NEVER displaced Ertreans from their native homelands or EXTERMINATED Eritreans to make space for Italians, nor did the
Italians tried to FORCE Eritreans to succumb to "Western Democracy".
Having respected the native Eritreans & their indigenous Eritrean heritage, faith & culture, the Italians earned respect from Eritreans.
Therefore, as much as the Italians had compassion fr Eritreans, so did the Eritreans.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash we (italians) have never do a massive african genocide like english, dutch or belgians...about 50.000 eritrean were part of italian army (the "Ascari") and have italian citizensh...also, we italians are hated by most part of West because we have black hairs and brown/black eyes and olive skin...as you can see, the term "west" is very relative. A english don't consider Italy "West", but most african actually do this and feel an unmotivated hate for us.
Antralian 8 months ago
Africans may GENERALLY blame EUROPEANS to many CRIMES committed in Africa.
But when it comes to details, AFRICANS know the 500yrs African NIGHTMARE was committed by the English, Dutches, French, Portuguese, Spaniards & Turks.
In fact, the ENGLISH committed more crimes on their own kind, the Irish, Scots & Wales than on Africans. NO WONDER AFRICANS STILL REFER THE ENGLISH as "THE SMILING SNAKE".
(It is still a very common daily term among Africans to name UNTRUSTWORTHY FRIEND the "English").
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash Oh yes, those horrible Englishmen and the Mfecane, and stealing their agricultural knowledge. Rule Fucking Britannia
JamesBrookeExplorer 7 months ago
@JamesBrookeExplorer
Empires rise & empires fall, just like all other marauding predator scavenger mercenary empires before.
Thanks to human history, the endeavor to overcome suppression & the will power & determination to seek liberty, every empire has an expiration date like spoiled milk, crumbling in the very hands of it's won victims.
Human history NEVER succumbs to scavenger mercenary predators.
BahreNeGash 7 months ago
@BahreNeGash
Say what you like, but the facts are bare. Name the Four most successful Nations outside of Europe, in terms of living condition and prosperity.
JamesBrookeExplorer 7 months ago
If Europe was good for it's own kind, WHY DID THE EUROPEANS,
1. went through 3000yrs of mutual exterminations, including exterminating 70 million Europeans in just 6yrs of war of WWII?
2. ESCAPED European misery in leaky boats, to "SETTLE" in Asia , Australia, Africa & America?
3. invaded the NATIVES of Asia, America, Australia, Africa,,, to EXTERMINATE & LOOT the natives?
CONGRATULATIONS,,, If this is your DEFINITION for "most successful nations, in terms of living condition and prosperity".
BahreNeGash 7 months ago
@BahreNeGash You still Haven't answered my Question, What are, in your opinion, the four most Successful nations outside of Europe, in terms of Living Conditions and Prosperity.
JamesBrookeExplorer 7 months ago
It looks like you don't like my answer, deflating your inflated ego.
If Europe was good for it's own kind, WHY DID THE EUROPEANS,
1. went through 3000yrs of mutual exterminations, including exterminating 70 million Europeans in just 6yrs of war of WWII?
2. ESCAPED European misery in leaky boats, to "SETTLE" in Asia , Australia, Africa & America?
3. invaded & looted Asia, America, Australia, Africa?
TOO BAD INVADING & LOOTING THE WORLD is your DEFINITION for "most successful nations"?
IS IT?
BahreNeGash 7 months ago
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JamesBrookeExplorer 7 months ago
@James
"1. Because they were intellectually Superior, unfortunately not Morally, And I would like to see the backing up behind the "70 Million" remark.
2. The Vast Majority of Europeans still live in Europe, as point of fact, the reason for colonisation was overpopulation, which was a direct result of the swift advance of medical science.
3. Quote-"Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of Life". But the answer to No.2 will suffice"
BahreNeGash 7 months ago
@JamesBrookeExplorer
YOU DON"T NEED TO REMOVE YOUR COMMENTS IF YOU ENDED BELIEVE YOUR COMMENTS HAD ANY VALID TRUTH.
Good you don't EVEN values your own comments.
In any case,,, This is he comments you removed.
BahreNeGash 7 months ago
@JamesBrookeExplorer
Sure, In your WICKED SADIST heritage, culture & mindset, people who EXTERMINATED each other for 3000yrs, since the Roman empire to present day Irish catholics- vs English Protestants are "intellectually Superior.
Europeans LEFT Europe 500yrs ago, claiming to escape "religious Prosecution, famines & endless wars".
BahreNeGash 7 months ago
@BahreNeGash This conversation is akin to a broken pencil. You scream (unless your caps are used for some other purpose) the same dribble each time. I removed my comment because the word limit would not let me write more.
Your arguments makeno sense, were I to state the sky was blue, you would probably bring up the massacres of Adolf hitler, and claim englishmen were behind it.
It's quite sad really.
JamesBrookeExplorer 7 months ago
@JamesBrookeExplorer
Sure, When ever it does not fit your diatribe nor your interest, it's "akin to a broken pencil".
We been there before, We heard all before.
Too bad,,, the days of deception are over.
BahreNeGash 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BahreNeGash You still Haven't answered my Question, What are, in your opinion, the four most Successful nations outside of Europe, in terms of Living Conditions and Prosperity.
The past has nothing to do with present living conditions and prosperity, and if you think that Europe is a cess pit, then you are quite well deluded.
JamesBrookeExplorer 7 months ago
@Antralian
It is surprising the ONLY people affectionately still remembered among Africans are Italians only.
(This may have to do a lot with "FAMILY VALUES", where the Italians & Africans consider to be an honor).
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
@BahreNeGash I'm happy about that. In Italy we have many immigrants Tigrai, Tigrè and Begi, and they are all exceptional and very good people.
Unfortunately, after the defeat of Mussolini and the end of monarchy, 66 years of american occupation of our country have greatly undermined our culture and our values... we are dying, as the entire West. You Africans are the future for the World, but take great attention: in the East, in Asia, new empires are emerging, and they dream of Africa.
Antralian 8 months ago
@Antralian
NATO bombarding Libya, I see many Africans escaping Libya for the safety of Italy, proving Africans trust Italy more than ANY part of Europe.y.
Sadly, Europeans seeking African resources continue to bleed Africans, again & again, century after century.
Sure, Asia continue to have INTEREST in Africa. But Africans having learned from the 500yrs of misery, they will NOT allow ASIA to commit the same crimes against Africans.
Hopefully, there will be a better future for all mankind.
BahreNeGash 8 months ago
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suryavajra 9 months ago
@MrZingy
It's true that I have never had the opportunity to visit Africa. But does visiting automatically lead to knowlege?? Not always. I've read a lot about Africa, and enough to have real appreciation if and when I do get to go there. So that is another logical fallacy on your part.
As for Smith, he was a pro-American, anti-communist African leader. So if anything there's enough common ground to be had with the man and room to negotiate and offer constructive criticism.
suryavajra 9 months ago
@suryavajra ... just like the Rhodies you play the "Communist terrorist" card to justify blatant and unadulterated racism. Where was the communism other than in the mind of Smithy who thought he could fool Kissinger into supporting him? The war was a war of liberation and not about the need to instill a particular doctrine. China is run by a Communist government.....dont see you or anyone else threatening to take them on? So there's your double standard right there.
MrZingy 9 months ago
@MrZingy
Well you can find out more about if you read the book, ''The World would of been Ours'' which were published off the Mitrokhin KGB archives. ZANU was supported by the Red Chinese, while ZAPU was supported by the USSR and the Eastern Bloc states.
suryavajra 9 months ago
@suryavajra oh please....is this your CIA based theory? No wonder you buffoons make a dick up of everything! Doing a crappy job in Libya too! Everyone was against Rhodesia Brits, Russians, Americans...in fact the greatest supporters were the Nordic country. Where was "Red China" after independence....perhaps it was more about ridding the world of a human devil rather than just spreading political doctrine.
MrZingy 9 months ago
@MrZingy
Now, now Mr. Zingy, I gave you a source. If you don't believe me, why don't you find this book and read it for yourself?? It was written by an ex-KGB agent, not CIA. So there you have it.
As for Red China, they are the biggest backers of the Mugabe regime. Indeed it has been argued that there is one Imperialistic power that has benefited in Africa with the end of colonialism, and that is Red China.
suryavajra 9 months ago
@suryavajra ...did you see the ex-KGB agent write the book or the CIA told you that an ex-KGB agent wrote the book. So naive!
i lived in Zimbabwe in the 90's ..didnt come across any Chinese banks, petroleum companies, insurance houses, mines.......its was Barclays, Standard Chartered, Mobil, Caltex, BP, Shell, Anglo American, Lonrho, Sheraton et al. Not very Red, not very Chinese, not very communist.
MrZingy 9 months ago
@MrZingy
Well go ahead, read the book, make up your own mind and talk to me about it.
As for the '90s, I think Zimbabwe has changed completely since then. Yes, at the time you had all of these Western corporations operating there, but remember that Mugabe's elite go-to 5th Brigade which was responsible for the Matabeland Massacres were trained by the North Koreans. Mugabe gets most of his arms and ammo from the Chinese. So militarily and economically now, Mugabe's moved to Chinese.
suryavajra 9 months ago
@suryavajra ....Chinese are actually the biggest source of cash for the US Government. Who do you think is buying all those Treasury Bills? Does that mean the US has gone commie on us?
MrZingy 9 months ago
@MrZingy
That's actually a good point Zingy. I do feel that the US as it's borrowing from the Chinese government is becoming more and more indebted to them, not a good thing. We're not Communist as being communist means that you believe that government should own all means of production. However bailout and stimulus indicates government interference in the economy motivated by perhaps a sense of cronyism that has seeped into our system??
suryavajra 9 months ago
@suryavajra .....all my points are good Sury, and its about time you starter acknowledging that fact!!!!lol!!! Powers of Federal Government akin to Communism.
MrZingy 9 months ago
@MrZingy
That is not it at all. For a government to be communist, the government must seek to control ALL means of production. That is the very definition of communism. We do not have that in the US. What we have is something different.
suryavajra 9 months ago
@suryavajra .....control is always in a Communist regime is not always through equity participation. Lots of private companies in the People Communist Republic of China. Control can be through excessive regulation, as in China AND the US.
MrZingy 9 months ago
@MrZingy
Well the largest home grown companies in China are still the state-run corporations with direct linkages to the CCP. Infact even outsiders coming into China have to give up the majority of their local market share to Chinese control. It's not technically communism, but it's state controlled capitalism.
In pure communism, the state owns ALL means of production. It would also be a command economy in that demand is set by non-market actors such as the government and the commissars.
suryavajra 9 months ago
@suryavajra ....careful there son, you'll soon have all your Rhodie buddies branding you a "commie terr"!!!
MrZingy 9 months ago
@MrZingy
Why would they do that?
suryavajra 9 months ago
@suryavajra ...why would they declare and support UDI?
MrZingy 9 months ago
@MrZingy
To get back at the Poms....lol! what does that have to do with me?
suryavajra 9 months ago
@suryavajra ...you're a puppet of the Rhodesian regime!!!lol!
MrZingy 9 months ago
@MrZingy
why do you say that? lol!
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ...because you idolise Smithy and his Rhodesian Front. Lucky you have me to control you idiotic urges!!!!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Well lucky is not the word, I'd use....lol!
Well I choose to believe Smith over the Poms....He did more for Rhodesia than the British in 60 years of their regime there...
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ...you ungrateful little sod....after we civilised you, you turn against us!!lol!! If you were Rhodesian and Smithy were still alive you would still be languishing in the "Indian quarters" of Salisbury wondering what the inside of a polling station looked like!!! There's your hero for you!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Are you actually getting angry there, Mr Zingy?? What's the matter my friend? lol!
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ...why would I be angry? I would say more intrigued by the fact that you idolise a man who is on record saying that your lot are too daft to vote.
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
well you sounded angry there, with all those exclamation points going on...lol! So he went on record did he? Could you provide the actual quote so I can read it for myself?
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ....how do I SOUND angry? Can you hear me? lmao!
Will sury ever see sense?? "Never in a thousand years" me thinks!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
You sounded furious....lol! You called me an ''ungrateful sod'', and tried to claim that you ''civilized'' me. That seems to indicate a sense of bitterness as well...lol!
So why don't we talk about this anger of yours?
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ...sorry Sury. i am watching Man U put one over the Germans. they must be tired of us thumping them in all departments!
perhaps we should rather talk about your irrational idolatry of Ian Smith? You seem to be side tracking this issue. Embarrassed?
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Who's Man U playing??
Well now here's your anger coming out again. Why do you hate that one guy? There were other Rhodesian Prime Ministers you know, all of whom born outside of Rhodesia. Ironic, wouldn't you say, my boy?
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ...let say its personal between Smithy and I. Glad he died a lonely death, surrounded by the misery he dished out. May he burn in hell!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Let's elaborate on that. Why exactly is it personal?
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra ...you are a way off from earning my trust for me to share that. Let's just say it goes back a while! However, i feel I can claim to speak for the sane majority when i say the man was a despicable excuse for a human!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@MrZingy
Why the secrecy? I've been hearing your temper tantrums for a year and half now. It's clear that you wanna let it off your chest. So I'm providing the shoulder for you to cry on...
suryavajra 8 months ago
@suryavajra booooo!!!
MrZingy 8 months ago
@suryavajra ...and you can go and shove your should right up your....sleeve!
MrZingy 8 months ago