@Dinyang But whose votes count as the "excess"? If 100 people vote for A, but he needs 50, then 50 are left over. If 50 put B second, 25 put C second, and 25 put D second, then which count as "excess"?
With STV you are electing more than one person. The only reason why some people have their second vote taken into account is because their first choice won or because their first choice came last.
Wikipedia has a great example on the STV page, it's much better than this.
@Dinyang Wouldn't that allow a bare majority, of say 51%, to choose every representative of the super district if they voted in lockstep? That's not a recipe for proportional representation.
The original 1st round votes are still counted with the new 2nd round votes added on.
If 10 peole vote red, 4 people vote blue and 5 green with a quota of 9 votes. Red would be the first winner and the Red's will be split by their second preference. So say 7 go green and 3 go blue round 2 would be:
@Dinyang That's not how an actual STV election would go. Each party will nominate multiple candidates in the same district. 3 Red, 3 Blue, etc. If they need 34/100 to win, any one party only needs 34 lockstep voters to win all 3 seats. 34 to Red 1, 0 to the other Reds, 30 to Blue 1, 21 to Yellow 1, 15 to Green 1. Other first preferences stay the same, but the 34 Red voters all switch to Red 2. Then next round, they got to Red 3. Red wins all 3 seats, with 34/100 voters.
@Dinyang The least voted only split if the first preference vote doesn't have a candidate with the qualifying amount of votes. My point is that STV is capable of producing just as poor a result as FPTP, with much more confusion.
Here's another problem. Suppose there are only Red and Blue parties. They split the vote 50/50 in first round. Now each has one seat. But there are 3 total. Second round Blue 2 and Red 2 both pass the minimum requirement with 50 each. Who gets the seat?
How do electoral officials determine where "excess" votes go?
TacticusPrime 2 months ago
@TacticusPrime
The number you put down. 2, 3, 4 ect. It has nothing to do with electoral officials.
Dinyang 2 months ago
@Dinyang But whose votes count as the "excess"? If 100 people vote for A, but he needs 50, then 50 are left over. If 50 put B second, 25 put C second, and 25 put D second, then which count as "excess"?
TacticusPrime 2 months ago
@TacticusPrime
Slightly misleading. If there is a surplus EVERYONE in that stack gets redistriputed.
She says something different to what the animation actually shows, the animation is right, look again at what happens.
Dinyang 2 months ago
@Dinyang So some people's votes count more than once. That doesn't seem fair.
TacticusPrime 2 months ago
@TacticusPrime
With STV you are electing more than one person. The only reason why some people have their second vote taken into account is because their first choice won or because their first choice came last.
Wikipedia has a great example on the STV page, it's much better than this.
Dinyang 2 months ago
@Dinyang Wouldn't that allow a bare majority, of say 51%, to choose every representative of the super district if they voted in lockstep? That's not a recipe for proportional representation.
TacticusPrime 2 months ago
@TacticusPrime
The original 1st round votes are still counted with the new 2nd round votes added on.
If 10 peole vote red, 4 people vote blue and 5 green with a quota of 9 votes. Red would be the first winner and the Red's will be split by their second preference. So say 7 go green and 3 go blue round 2 would be:
7 blue and 12 green.
Red (1st Winner), Green (2nd Winner)
Dinyang 2 months ago
@Dinyang That's not how an actual STV election would go. Each party will nominate multiple candidates in the same district. 3 Red, 3 Blue, etc. If they need 34/100 to win, any one party only needs 34 lockstep voters to win all 3 seats. 34 to Red 1, 0 to the other Reds, 30 to Blue 1, 21 to Yellow 1, 15 to Green 1. Other first preferences stay the same, but the 34 Red voters all switch to Red 2. Then next round, they got to Red 3. Red wins all 3 seats, with 34/100 voters.
TacticusPrime 2 months ago
@TacticusPrime
The least voted get split too, remember.
In practice (Ireland with Fianna Fáil) locksteping only works for the second seat.
Dinyang 2 months ago
@Dinyang The least voted only split if the first preference vote doesn't have a candidate with the qualifying amount of votes. My point is that STV is capable of producing just as poor a result as FPTP, with much more confusion.
Here's another problem. Suppose there are only Red and Blue parties. They split the vote 50/50 in first round. Now each has one seat. But there are 3 total. Second round Blue 2 and Red 2 both pass the minimum requirement with 50 each. Who gets the seat?
TacticusPrime 2 months ago
@TacticusPrime
In practice it is known to be representative the number prove that, lock stepping doesn't work because voting is never that uniform.
On your second point, that would be a hung constituency which is virtually impossible and can occur in all systems. There is always multiple seats.
I'm opposed to STV for other reasons but it's representative nature is not in dispute.
Dinyang 2 months ago
confuuuuusssssiiinngggggggggg
piquedancer12 8 months ago
cool.
Ziniho0608 8 months ago