Part 1 - What is Sound?

[chumowski]

the vibration is there but the interpretation is lost, much like asking do waves leave marks on a beach if you aren't there to see them....

[mda102508]

My take on "If a tree falls does anyone here it " is a metaphysical one, If not observed by an aware being ,it reacts differently to our perceived concepts of our reality. Therefore if an aware being with a totally different concept of reality would view it completely different.If no aware being observes it then it just "IS"

[nelg70]

The existence of sound is a dependent related phenomena, that being it requires something that causes sound and an observer with a hearing capacity to receive it. Everything is dependent related. You can't have one without the other.

[mushroomhill]

God I love your voice man!! Whenever I drink a beer I always check out one of your videos. I cant put my finger on it... You have a soothing, intelligent, boomerang way about the way you speak. Its awesome.

[CraigTube]

@mushroomhill Wow, thanks! :)

[tophu1021]

I don't think sound is dependent on the receiver. I'm pretty sure "sound" is the waves through a medium.

[CraigTube]

@tophu1021 Let's put it this way... If there was no life on earth, then there would be nobody to decide that waves produce sound. They are just waves and are meaningless unless someone "hears" them and decides that there is sound. Waves are just waves. Sound is our interpretation or sensation produced by those waves.

[diamondyeqy]

If you make up a chord that doesn't exist, and play it can you hear that non existing chord or can you not hear it?

[CraigTube]

@diamondyeqy The question is can you make up a chord? You can blend several random note together and call it a chord, but it probably won't sound good, because music is based on math. However, you would still hear it.

[x2keithm3x]

If sound is the interpretation of vibrations or noise then the questions answer is still no, or more precisely the question is invalid.

The question asks if a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound?

If sound is the act of hearing or perceiving vibrating air as sound then trees can't make sound, only noise.

[BishiSab]

Why do you think that people Panik if they are fronted with new information. I know that maybe its not your idea, but shouldnt we really say what WE fell. Like i wont start shouting and get mad if i have new information, am i different or maybe they can not tell me how to behave....!?

[CraigTube]

@BishiSab People often push information away if it goes against what they've been programmed while growing up, or if it's just too complicated for them to swallow.

[l34lo1]

@CraigTube What happens when a robot percepts sound and reacts to it? Can the robot actually hear? I think that since sound being a creation of man like all other things, sight, smell, time etc. The "thing" has to be alive/conscious to experience these phenomena's. Cause a robot arm at Honda has no perception on time. What do you think?

[CraigTube]

@l34lo1 Well, a VU meter reacts to "sound", but it's not sound at that point. It's electrical current. There is no illusion of "sound" there. Living beings actually interpret vibrations and "hear". They are able to distinguish millions of different sounds and react to each of them appropriately. Furthermore, we can enjoy music, which is a very complex sound that effects our bodies in many ways. Machines are wired or programmed to perform a task when a "sound" occurs. It's like pressing a button.

[mickeyblueeyes1983]

you make an interesting argument. however talking about sound, you say it could be the actual event of vibrations interacting with the air. i say sound is the audiable vibrations in the air. argh semantics! lol

[CraigTube]

@mickeyblueeyes1983 But it's only audible because we hear it. Otherwise, it's just moving air. Vibrations are not audible unless they can be perceived. Sound occurs when we detect the vibrations. Sound it "our" interpretation of vibration.

[mickeyblueeyes1983]

@CraigTube I see your point, and by your definition I would agree with you. Except I believe my definition of sound differs from yours. You say a sound is our interepretation of the vibrations of the air (by bearing witness to it), i say sound is vibrations in the air that "Could" be heard "if" someone was stood there. I realise im being pedantic, its what i do best :p lol top discussion Craig

[manosaxy]

@CraigTube you are assuming that there is nothing in the forest, to use that metaphor, to observe that sound. I'm sure that in every forest there is an insect or other organism that can perceive that sound. I like the argument, but it is a semantic issue. The tree falling will produce events that can be interpreted as sound; assuming that there are regular earth-like conditions in the forest. Therefore we are to assume that there will be perceptable events.

[CraigTube]

@manosaxy Well remember, the question is: "if there's no one there to hear it, does it still produce sound." If there's a bug sitting on a branch that can perceive sonic vibrations that produce the sensation of sound, then there is sound -for the bug-. Sound is the interpretation of vibrations created by movement. The interpretation and perception of the vibration is what we call sound. A def person will not interpret vibrations as sound, but they can still feel them. There's a difference.

[manosaxy]

@CraigTube There is the rub. Your argument is a good one, and I agree with it is a semantic argument. Its similar to one that I made with many students about language. What is a chair. Really it is a four legged-knee bending-butt resting thing, but we call it a "chair." Your definition of "sound" is really "the perception and interpretation of pressure waves in the atmosphere." I suppose a better question would be: If a tree falls in the forest, will it produce pressure waves?

[CraigTube]

@manosaxy Pressure waves can't always be heard tho. I child swinging on a park swing creates waves, but no sound. The very same waves can be created by a tuning fork, but because it vibrates much faster, we can "hear" it. That's when it becomes sound. Does a dog whistle create sound? Only if you're a dog. It's like smell. It's the body's reaction to different molecular structures. It's only smell when our bodies make it so.

[rickyale]

Hi, I always think of this question as : "if something happens and theres no one there, does it really happen?" Like all the cosmos is creating itself. But I understand what you are talking about.

[threeque]

Semantics!!

By your definition, we are asking an inaccurate question. The question should be :

'If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to sense the vibrations of it's impact on the ground makes, does it still make vibrations?"

You are making a very scientific literal analysis ( a correct analysis in my opinion) to a question that is not intended to be taken so literal.

A blind man says to his wife, "See you in the morning". Does he see her in the morning? Kinda like that

[CraigTube]

Well, I think the idea behind what I'm saying is that, yes it does still make the vibrations, but without an observer, there is no sound. A recording of the event would not be defined as sound because it's just stored information about the vibrations. When an observer plays back the recording, all criteria for the presence of sound are met.

[threeque]

Well, that's true only if you limit the definition of sound to mean only vibrations that are heard. But this is not the full definition. Sound is also defined as ....vibrations. Depends which dictionary you read. Sound is also defined as. 'recorded auditory material'. So in the fullest sense of the word, I think that yes, sound is 'made', and available regardless if there is any receiver. Does a flash light emit light if there is only a blind man to see it?

I need to try brewing beer now.

[CraigTube]

I honestly think that some of those definitions are inaccurate. You see, things are always vibrating, even if we don't hear them. Look at tall buildings that sway on a windy day. That is in effect a slow vibration. Is there sound? I would say "no". As soon as it's audible, its sound. But yes, it does depend on how you define sound. You're right about that. Under my definition, the tree makes no sound unless someone hears it.

[CraigTube]

Light is another interresting thing. It is only electromagnetic energy. If you turn off the lights, there is no light, yet there is still electromagnetism from cell phones, radios, cordless phones and wireless routers, even cosmic radiation from space. It's all electromagnetism, but turn off the lights, and there's no light. Light, therefore should be defined the same as my definition of sound. Unless electromagnetism is seen, there is no light.

[atchisrj1]

Sound is vibration (waves). The denser the medium the faster sound travels. For the vibration to be sound it must have a source, medium and, a receiver. Sorry ex Submarine Sonar Technichion.

[rpagliari]

One of the reasons, beside its authority, is that sound is closely related to the product of the combination of physical waves and their perception: perception as the process of detecting signals of a certain nature, not its actual realization. Finally, this is what I can understand by googling on the internet, I'm not trying to prove you're wrong.

[rpagliari]

The Freeonline dictionary and Apple dictionary both agree on this, while merrian-webster is closer to your definition. So long as there are slightly different definitions, I think there will always be a bit of ambiguity, but at the moment I'm leaning toward the Oxford dictionary.

[rpagliari]

I think it all depends by the definition you adopt. According to Oxford English Dictionary "The sensation produced in the organs of hearing when the surrounding air is set in vibration in such a way as to affect these; also, that which is or may be heard", so it doesn't necessarily imply that someone is listening to it.

[rpagliari]

it depends on the definition you are adopting. If you look at the free online dictionary, for instance, sound is defined as "Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing": so, it has to be capable of being detected, which doesn't mean someone is actually detecting it. I think it's all about definitions...

[CraigTube]

Well, that definition is full of holes, so I wouldn't trust it. It requires that the sound be between 20 and 20,000 Hz. Dogs hear way higher than that. So so bats, so to put that range on it leaves them out, so there's no sound for them. Also, it requires the organs of hearing to be human. So no other living things can hear sound? Remember, not all definitions are correct.

[CraigTube]

Sound is Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, as interpreted by organs of hearing and perceived by an observer.

[spikydemon86]

You blow our minds! :D This made for a very interesting conversation over some home made beer on a Friday night. Thanks for all the videos!

Love from Iceland,

Ingunn and Stuart

[bobbystips]

Oh well! Case closed!

[sonnieandjacob]

so in other words unless you can hear something and perceive it as sound it does not exist to you whether or not it is being perceived by someone else, relative to you it is non existent

[sonnieandjacob]

I'm sorry but he is right. In physics there is something called the measurement problem

that states that unless observed in some way

or by making a measurement, whatever is to be observed has to be considered non-existent. In other words relative to an observer if there is no perception of any kind by said observer then what is to be measured does not exist by the laws of physics. Einsteins theory shows that as well with time and space also exists as it does relative to an observer.

[bobbystips]

This is one of those things that can be argued back and forth till the cows come home! A hypothetical tree, a hypothetical sound in a hypothetical wood. Sorry, but NEITHER of you can, in effect, be RIGHT in this discussion!

[yea78861]

then the tree never fell

no one was there to see it

lol tim

[CraigTube]

Not true. The universe still exists without us.

[danratsnapnames]

with your logic, if the wind blows cold, and nobody is there to feel it, its not cold. if there is god, and nobody is there to believe in him, then he is not god? WRONG, just like the LOGIC your using, its ALL WRONG.

[danratsnapnames]

sorry, dont mean to preach to you, i'm not that religious, and i do not attend church of any sort. but the FACT still remains. just as if platonium radiates radiation, and nobody is there to feel its affects, then there is no radiation? sorry, the UNIVERSE DOES EXIST, and THUS ALL THINGS WE EXPIERENCE IS A REPRESENTATION OF THAT UNIVERSE, INCLUDING SOUND.

[CraigTube]

You are confusing what we sense with our bodies, with what is there in universe. You miss the point. Radiation is energy that comes from a source and travels through space and may be able to penetrate various materials. YOU don't have to be there. Light is simply non-ionizing radiation. So are radio waves. They exist without you there. Whether we can sense them or not depends on their frequency, and when we sense something, we give that a name. "light" "sound" etc.

[CraigTube]

Your carrying this too far. Everything is relative to our perception of the universe. Matter exists without our perceiving it, but you have to separate the universe from our perception of it. What is cold to you would not be cold to a polar bear. It is relative to the observer. Yes there are differing temperatures, but the concept of "cold" is a relative term. Water freezes in the freezer, only because it's -4C in there. That's only cold to YOU and ME. I'm not getting into the God thing.

[danratsnapnames]

if your an athiest, i think this could be true.. but many believe in a super power of some sort, GOD if you will. thus GOD hears all, and thus, it did make a sound. vibrations on a tape recorder is Evedence of this. if nobody was there, does it make a sound, YES it does, for if it did not, we would not be able to collect evedence of that sound, and we would not be able to reproduce it.

[CraigTube]

I explained the tape recorder fenominon in the video. A tape recorder doesn't "hear". It simple converts moving air into magnetism. That's not sound. Also, a God would not have ears and would not need to "hear" anything. Sound is the sensation we have due to moving air. Looks like I'm going to have to make another video on this. People don't get it.

[danratsnapnames]

i hate to have to explain it to you.. but here is goes.. TAPE doesn't hear sound, it RECORDS EVEDENCE OF SOUND.. THUS if there is EVEDENCE then there IS SOUND, for if there was no sound, nothing would be recorded.. HOW CAN YOU DENY THIS.

[danratsnapnames]

dont bother making another video, your stupidity eludes the mass's because you dont see Science as a mechinism of truth.

MAN uses SCIENCE to PROVE TRUTH. god does not need such Mechinisms because HE IS TRUTH. to deny that which happened, is to deny TRUTH and all those MECHINISIMS THAT PROVE IT TO BE SO. thus you dont see it as truth, you see it as a LIE, and this is SATONS work.

[CraigTube]

You're banned. This is not a religious discussion.

[CraigTube]

Tape responds to magnetic fluxuations created by the tape head, which is an electro magnet driven by an electric current created by an amplifier, which gets it's from another electro magnet, the one in the microphone. There's no sound in that system. In the universe, air vibrates when something moves, and at a given range of frequencies, this movement can be documented by the electromagnetic recording system I described above. Next comment below....

[CraigTube]

The sound doesn't happen until someone plays back the tape, converting those magnetic changes to electric signals to drive a speaker. The speaker vibrates the air. Still no sound. When someone detects these fonomina with their ear, they hear what they call sound. You don't need to be rude bud. I'm ready to ban you dude.

[solarwind40]

How about starting our own beer making and topics community on facebook? Then everyone could post a video of pouring their home made beer, topic discussion, ect on the same page as a group. Don't use the same account that you use for family and friends, make it a group account. It works great social interaction...

[CraigTube]

That's an idea.

[ballhitch2]

which came first, the chicken or the egg. the egg of coarse.thats clean cut but you've smudged this one

[CraigTube]

How?

[danratsnapnames]

neither! the chicken evolved from a lizzard! thus the Lizzard came first. just look at any chicken, you can see they are nothing more than a mutation of a TREX.

[ballhitch2]

at 3:12 you totally cheated. when did 'someone' mean any human (or a creature with the ability to perceive sound).no way. a squirrel isn't someone man, its a squirrel.

[CraigTube]

Well I apologize for an oral typo during my rant. Anything that can take a vibration and perceive it as an auditory sensation counts as that which can hear. Squirrels can do that, so for them, there's a sound.

[floodtube1]

Sound is vibration of the already present air.

Light however it the emission of photons.

So if a thunder storm happened in a forest and no one was there to witness it we would have no sound, but would there still be flashes of lighting?

[CraigTube]

I will cover light in an upcoming video. I have much to say on this.

[LaLigaOfficial]

Could you do a video on the NATO wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, thats really interesting?

[bloodynuts2]

starting to get real deep there craig...to much home brew stewing that brain of yours.//

[CraigTube]

The viewers asked for it. :) Deep is good. Keeps your brain awake.

[zenonko]

Surely this begs the question 'what is sight?' If nobody observes the tree falling, does the tree fall?

Next video for Craigster?

[CraigTube]

Absolutely will cover this. I have a tun to say about it.

[svandevort]

Well put Craig. Need a perceiver not a receiver.

[CraigTube]

A very interesting thumbnail description. I wish I had thought of that. :)

[LouddrummerO]

Your right! If i disagree i might get slamed like the last time i voiced my opinion. lol

[CraigTube]

LOL Sometimes I spout off without looking at who I'm replying to. Sorry buddy.

[ctagzfsx]

i disagree, with the observers, to me sound is a wave, doesnt matter if i can hear it, those waves created will travel on forever into space, even tho it fell and i didnt hear it it made it made those frequencies, and as the wave goes through space forever, someone somwhere eventually will be able to hear it

[CraigTube]

This is incorrect. Because the vibrations that cause sound are a physical movement of matter, friction will eventually overcome them and they will die. Your comment as only accurate when talking about electromagnetism, which has no mass and is not subject to friction. Sound is the sensation we feel when air vibrations strike our ears.

[AstAMoore]

My AHD defines sound as:

Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing.

According to it, sound *is* vibrations. And light *is* vibrations. And radio frequencies are vibrations. The presence of an observer (or, more correctly, a detector) is irrelevant.

Otherwise, you may argue that the world disappears when you fall asleep. ;)

[CraigTube]

But that would mean that there is sound everywhere, because stuff is always vibrating, I'm sure the earth turning causes vibrations, just really slow ones. The moon moves the tides on a regular basis. That is a slow vibration. The definition for sound then devolves. You can't leave out the perception part. Some vibrations are not perceived as sound, so they are not, but the vibrations still exist, just like the world does when you are asleep.

[AstAMoore]

Of course there's sound everywhere. Walk outside in the dead of night. You'll hear plenty of it.

[jakeanddar]

Deep but understandable,audible waves are formed but eventually dissipate and cease to exist. If nothing is there to receive and convert the waves then no sound is created or excepted. thanks craig

[Wolfeye123]

Interesting... thats food for thoughts.

When we record music, we can store sounds on a given media, but it quickly becomes non existant for a given amount of Time when we're done with it and go about doing something else...

Then, it suddenly becomes existent the moment we turn on a music player device of any sorts and someone is there to perceive what comes out of it....

Mom... my brain is hurtiiiinnggg... :(

quick! Beam us up Scotty! I think im loosing my mind on this planet! :)

[nicdaspic]

cool.

[dwayne0t]

How do you know other trees or plants in the area don't experience sound?

Maybe the recipient of the sound doesn't need to be ambulatory.

[floodtube1]

Correct.

The answer is in the question - "..and there is no one there to 'hear' it.." So it's about hearing - an internal process.

If a deaf man was in the forest would the tree make a sound? - No.

Sounds are only made by the brain. The air, water or solid are just transportation mediums for the vibrations.

I suppose you have heard the old joke? - If a man said something in a forest and a woman wasn't there to hear him, would he still be wrong?

[CraigTube]

Well the answer depends on the definition of sound. Most of the definitions I have read include the "perception" of a vibration. If there is no perception, there is no sound. Vibrating air is not sound. Move your hand and vibrate some air. Can you hear it?

[CraigTube]

the animals would be the observers. They would experience sound.

The vibrations are NOT sound. Sound requires the act of perception of these vibrations causing the sensation of sound. I thought I explained that quite well.

[11335569]

you did, people just like to be difficult, next thing your going to have is someone say "well how do you know trees can't hear?"..you just wait O_O