actually, egeiro is translated as I WIIL RAISE UP, the word for it auton means HE! Get yourself an Interlinear! Do we need to take your word for it as to what the Jehova Witnesses believe? Why would I do that, you dont even understand your own "faith"? What is with you and the Witnesses? Jesus sees you!
Jesus didnt say he was talking about his body. Jesus said TEMPLE. John assumed that he was talking of his body. Be honest. Paul says many times that God raised Jesus and the witnesses believe that God raised him. You are the one who disagrees with what is written. Jesus didnt really say "I" will raise it up. Lets take a look cont.
2 Corinthians 4:14,"knowing that he who raised Jesus up will raise us up also together with Jesus and will present us together with you." 1 Corinthians 1:14,God raised up the Lord. It doesn't say, the Lord raised up the Lord. But GOD raised up his Son.God raised him up and then seated himright next to himself, at his right hand-Ephesians 1:20.Colossians 2:12, God raised him up from the dead. John 15:26, As the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself.
Yeah, the Bible also says that time will come that the dead will rise. This statement instills in us the certainty that there really is the resurrection of the dead. The statement was not meant to make us believe that the dead will rise on their own, without God's intervention.
The same is true with Jesus' statement that instilled confidence that indeed he will rise again. And he did, albeit with God's intervention.
That is why Hebrews 5:7 says of Jesus (ASV): "Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear."
Jesus' strong and tearful pleads were heard and he was saved out of death. How could the statement "save him from death" be true when he died anyway? It was true because God raised him up and did not leave him in death forever.
@customanalogue If Jesus didn't rise in the flesh, then the man (flesh) who died did not rise. And, as Paul said, "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." (1 Cor 15:17)
@customanalogue There is a difference btw being raised from the dead and "rematerializing". Elijah Muhammad "appeared" to Farrakan after he died on a mountain. So, what you're saying is Elijah Muhammad raised from the dead, too?
@customanalogue "Jesus died in the flesh & raised a spirit."
There is a difference btw being raised from the dead and "rematerializing". After he died, Elijah Muhammad "appeared" to Farrakan on a mountain. So, what you're saying is Elijah Muhammad rose from the dead, too? If so, why is Elijah's remains still in the grave, yet, Jesus' remains weren't? If Jesus' body was destroyed, then how could the prophecy be fulfilled...(cont)
I really don't know what your beef is and it's all so tiresome.
Jesus died about 3PM on the Friday and was resurrected on a Sunday. Jesus did come in the flesh being born of a woman and was the "last" or second Adam. Adam died, Jesus died. But Jesus was raised.
So what's the problem? Stick to the Bible and what it says, be sensible.
If my Mother wakes me in the morning, what do I do. I "raise my body". I get up.
Also if a person is not really dead they don't need a resurrection.
@customanalogue And that's my beef. From a human aspect, they are dead. From God's aspect, they are living. (Matt 9:24; Mk 5:39; Lk 8:52; Jn 11:11-12) This is why Jesus said God is "ot the God of the dead, but of the living." (Matt 22:32) If we cannot see past the flesh, they we will never know nor understand God, His nature, nor His power.
If to make a point you have to misquote Mat 22:32 so badly, that says a lot about you.
Are you suggesting Abraham, Isaac and jacob will resurrect themselves? Have you taken leave of your senses?
Read verses 22-32 to get the correct context, otherwise you are distorting Jesus. It was an answer to the Sadducees who said there was no resurrection. Jesus simply corrected them. They WILL have a resurrection. There WILL be a resurrrection of the "rightous and unrightous." John 5:28,29
@customanalogue I'm not misquoting anything. I am in no way suggesting they will resurrect themselves. That would be making them equal to Christ (which they are not). Yes, there will be a resurrection, but I think many people get confused about the "state of the dead" because they can only look at it from the ground up (to heaven) instead of from heaven down to the ground. The dead are dead to us, but sleep to God.
If you believe people can resurrect themselves, then we have no need for God.
If Jesus resurrected himself, then he had no need for the Father.
This remind me of another belief out there: Do you believe in Evolution?
"That “it was counted to him” was written, however, not for his sake only, but also for the sake of us to whom it is destined to be counted, because we believe on *HIM* who raised Jesus our Lord up from the dead."
1~@customanalogue I never said PEOPLE can raise themselves. I just acknowledge that Christ rose Himself on the third day as He said He would. In a way, I do believe in evolution. I have "evolved" from an unrighteous sinner to a repentive christian. The "HIM" is God, but you seem to misunderstand that it doesn't take away from Jesus fulfilling what He said He would. Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (Jn 2:19) The context is found in verse 21.
2~@customanalogue "But he spake of the temple of his body." It is just like how it's written that all things were made by Christ, yet, we still say God created everything. When we come to realize that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, then we see that when Christ does something, it IS God doing it.
What did Jesus mean at Luke 23:46 when he said "Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.” ?
Why would Jesus need to entrust anything to the Father if he were planning to raise himself to life?
If he COULD raise himself to life then he wasn't truly dead was he? If he wasn't truly dead, then the ransom wasn't paid, our sins have not been atoned for and we will never have everlasting life.
In denying that Jesus was too dead to resurrect himself, you are denying the whole ransom.
God Bless You, I am so glad I found this video.........How can anyone claim their Lord and Savior to be a false prophet.....This video needs to be seen by ALL JWs. I know Jesus was bodily raised for all of us believers--- for without this resurrection their would be no resurrection for any of us.....They must change their thinking if they actually think they will be resurrected for eternity....AMEN
Jesus was NOT raised in his fleshly body! He GAVE that body to US as a sacrifice! Why would he need it back? If someone pays a debt for their friend and then takes back the payment, obviously the debt continues...likewise if after Jesus was resurrected, he TOOK BACK his flesh and blood, where is the sacrifice??
Jesus appeared to his disciples in a physical form just as angels had done in the OT. The linen clothes were left behind but Jesus was always clothed after his resurrection.
@xLonewolf Why can't you just answer 21crosscheck's question---Is Jesus a false prophet???---your comment sure supports an answer of "yes he was".......is this your logic or WT logic
@xLonewolf@xLonewolf Jesus said he would raise himself-his body..on yeah His body was dead---but 1 Pet 3:18 ...he was alive in spirit....are you going to also deny that His spirit raised Him???????? BTW How in the world WT can turn this verse into a resurrection is way way way way beyond me.. Also please check out John 10:18--JESUS WAS IN CONTROL
Lk 8:48: "But he said to her: "Daughter, your faith has made you well." Did the "girls'" faith make her well? Or was it God's power? Jesus said it was the girls' own faith that did it.
Lk: "Whoever wants to save his soul will lose it but whoever loses his soul for my sake is the one that will save it."
All these examples, as well as others many more, show that one can be credited for something as having done it by himself. This is similar to Jesus' "raising himself."
@xLonewolf Again--that is not his resurrection...show me where that is his resurrection-----impossible--I challenge you. Upon his physical death he was immediately alive in the spirit--has nothing to do with his resurrection. His body was resurrected 3 days later-----again you are accepting a twisted logic----If you can find me a verse then I will have something to think about. Again--that is not a resurrection---His Spirit NEVER DIED--only his physical body-spirit needed no resurrection
@dbspooky His spirit died. I do not believe in the unbiblical teaching of immortal soul and everlasting hellfire, etc. like you believe. And that is a whole different topic.
@xLonewolf Could you please back up your "His spirit died" comment with a scripture from the Word of God. I personally do not think you can find one as 1 Pet 3:18 says he was alive in the Spirit...I love the Bible and the scriptures in it--so if you can find one that says His spirit died, then I will love that scripture as much as any other in God's Holy Word. I surely do not need any commentaries--just scripture
@dbspooky I don't need to show one single verse. The whole bible supports what I say. I find it ridiculous that people think Jesus actually descended into a literal place called hell as a perfect faithful person and was still conscious. The spirit is the life force. If Jesus' life force was still alive then he didn't die and the whole bible is a lie!
People who believe ones spirit lives on is still believing the first lie of Satan. "You positively will not die."
@xLonewolf You make Jesus out to be a mere man with a response like that........Where Jesus descended has absolutely nothing to do with the question I asked..Over and over when JWs cannot answer a question they substitute an easy answer with something that has nothing to do with it or flee from the question with an unrelated comment or question. If you can't or refuse to answer this then I know that you are stumped...as no such verse exist. Jesus Spirit NEVER died. GOD CANNOT DIE. flesh can
Then the sacrifice was in vain and your sins were not forgiven. What a horrible lie.
God is not flesh, he is not man.
Jesus was 100% man when he was on earth and 0% God or angel.
The teaching that Jesus has two natures is not found anywhere in the bible.
"The dead are conscious of nothing at all." No exceptions. Jesus did not descend into a place of hellfire. GOD himself was not in hell, the place of separation from Himself (lol).
@rm7890 You reduce God to a mere image. "Manifest" proves nothing. 1st of all that scripture is talking about Jesus, not God. 2nd of all even if it was talking about God, He is not a man, just like God is not a "burning bush."
You reduce Jesus' body to a mere shell or 'vehicle' that he carried around for somehow he managed to survive "ceasing to exist" (death). The only part that died was a mere 1/3 of the godhead, but even that mere 3rd didn't really die.
@fallingskyward118 you say manifested proves nothing, why does it noy prove anything? How else do you think that God would be able to put us under his grace, and out from under the Mosaic Law?
@fallingskyward118 How many words are NOT man-made???? You call a coat a coat because a man made up a word to describe a garment he made. You call a car a car because some man made up that word to describe the object that he created. When we don't know what something is, we call it a "thing"-another man-made word to decribe something we don't know or understand. So, again, what words do you know aren't man-made?
@rpierre777 I don't recall saying "trinity" is a manmade word. It's a manmade concept, the whole idea is. Show me in the bible any synonom for trinity. If it's an actual doctrine where is any illustration or allegory that Jesus used for it? Not only does Jesus not once mention such a concept, it is not even implicitly mentioned anywhere. It is fabricated by man's imagination.
And yes the word 'God' cannot describe His greatness -- nor does it identify him from all the other "gods."
@fallingskyward118 Also, we use the man-made word "God" to describe God. It's simply three letters that we use to describe a being who is so much greater than us, that we cannot truly use words to fully describe Him. So, we made up a word that would automatically encompass all that we perceive God to be. And, it is by the definition of the man-made word the we determine why no one else can have that position in our lives.
@fallingskyward118 God did have to manifest Himself in order to forgive us. (Isa 59:15-18) You know, a lot of people don't know where the amour of God comes from. They think it's just in Ephesians 6:11-17. Well, this is the amour of God because He put it on so He can intercede and redeem mankind since there was no one else. All have sinned and fallen short of His glory. (Rm 3:23) This is why God can say He is the only saviour. (Isa 43:11)
@rpierre777 God's qualities are manifested EVERYWHERE! In his creation that you see all around you and especially in his only begotten son whom he gave! God provided us a savior. It was not Jesus own will that he was to save us, it was his Father's will. Jesus own words. 2 different wills mean 2 different minds there's no getting around that -- they are two distinct beings. To say Jesus saved out of his own will is to call him a liar.
hey i have a question for you my friend...do you have any friends? you look kinda lonely..what is your position on that?
lonliness cuases dementia.. go out and fly i kite, walk a dog, you know. get out and meet some people and make friends...it will work wonders for you! i promise!!
I was a JW for 10 yrs and got out of it..i was very depressed alot better now.but my son who studies with them has shunned me for the past 2 yrs ,because i left.....
"God bless " at the end. You are not to greet false teachers or receive them into your home. Don't say "God speed " or " God bless" or anything to them that would let them think they are doing God's will or don't say anything to them that would encourage Jehovah Witnesses to go on in their evil ways. If you greet them or receive them into your home, you share in their evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-11
all religions are wrong and jesus is a false prophet because he claims to be devine. the lord and saviour...
anyone who claims devinity is a false prophet. anyone who stands for religion is giving their lives to the hounds of hell. the bible is writen by man. and writen in order to create a false prophet
Hi Journey ride... I don't know but I think Jwmediafilms did a video on Jws and depression. I also know that Dr. Jerry Bergman has written on the issue.
21crosscheck21, I remember that also, and my pastor taught it, but I can't remember any keywords in Greek or English to help me find the verse. Do you remember where it is? Or are you thinking of John 2:19's wit?
@21crosscheck21 "Thats the point of the video... Jesus said he would raise himself." THAT was NOT the point of the video, we KNOW that has more to do with your OBSESSION with JWs. Nevertheless: And when I awake I do that too. What does that prove? When Jesus was resurrected what was he supposed to do? GET UP! If a person is TRULY DEAD then he CANNOT RESURRECT HIMSELF. Are you from a different universe where they use different logic? But the the Trinity was NEVER about logic, right?
@21crosscheck21 The WORD(one word) for "I will raise it up" kinda funny how ONE WORD is translated to a PHRASE, but anyway, the WORD: egeiro-uses in the Bible 141 Times as follows:
arise (5), arisen (2), arises (1), awake (1), awaken (1), awoke (1), cause (1), get (17), gets (2), got (11), lift (1), raise (10), raised (61), raises (2), rise (5), rise again (2), risen (13), rose (1), rose again (1), stand (1), woke (3) WHY is there an "I" ADDED on this verse?.
Hay i am me, like me of lothe me ! What you get is what I am ! By the way re the Gospels of Luke and John, there is no way that the authers meant what you have said.. That of course may be different from what either of us believe. The first question is, what did the autheor mean by what he wrote ? John
take a look at the ressurection stories in Luke and John. Jesus has a physical ressurection in both these gospels ! The idea that Jesus was raised as an invisible spirit, is in fact a gnostic idea. The gnostics denied Jesus had a physicle ressurection, so the wtbts are really just recyling an ancient gnostic idea rejected by the authors of Luke and John
I haven't been active in spiritual matters for a while, so i'm running on memory here, but he was in fact a spirit being, but he took the form of a human in order to see his desciples (and that chick) again. And not suprisingly, not only would it help them recognize him as they knew him, but he likely also knew that our minds couldn't comprehend his spirit form.
You seem to be missing the point. The Gospel's od Luke and John clearly indicate that Jesus had a physicle ressurection. Take a look at these gospel storys and read then for yourself. Dot just remember the JW properganda.
I have read them. And i don't blindly buy in to "propoganda", as you so politely stated. I'm naturally a free-thinker, a questioner, an intellectual, so i pick through things and learn and observe as much as i can about them. In my eyes, the JWs know what they're talking about. I'm not saying you have to draw the same conclusions, but their's is what seems the most logical to ME.
they have NO idea what they are talking about, did you know there is a psychiatric hospital nicknamed the "watchtower" after JWs magazines they put out because there is so many JWs in psychiatric hospitals
Now, let me ask you another thing... all your videos seem to uniformly be bashing JWs.
Being so adamantly against one denomination, and not even mentioning the flaws of any others (Pentacostals, for example), shows that you're less worried about doctrinal accuracy, and instead you're acting out on a personal vendetta.
... let me guess, you were a witness when you were young, and were upset about not getting birthday presents?
""""Also, read 1 Corinthians 8:6 sometime: "There is for us only ONE God, the Father."""""
How about the other half of that verse.... One Lord Jesus Christ...... If that verse excludes Jesus from being God it also excludes the Father from being "Lord."
Indeed. It specifies Jesus is "lord" (kurios), The Father is God (Ho theos).
Calling the Father "lord" instead of "God" is like calling the president a mayor. True, in the OT, he's referred to as "the LORD" (all caps) quite often... but when the word "LORD" is used, the transcribers were replacing the divine name (YHWH/Jehovah), with Adonai to avoid using his name in vain. Adonai was then translated as "LORD."
Also, for John 20:28, I'd suggest reading up a bit on greek sentence structure. "Ho kurios eimi et ho theos eimi" if I remember right. The phrase "Ho...eimi" indicates "My" ... if he'd said "kurios eimi" he'd be claiming to be a lord. But "ho kurios eimi" shows "the lord of me." Just because "ho" is next to "theos" doesn't mean Jesus was being called "ho theos." He was being called "ho theos eimi" or "the theos of me." Not "The theos."
And the "ho" refers to "eimi" not kurios or theos. So, yes, Jesus is called "theos" in the qualitative sense, but not "ho theos."
Your other question is a trap because based on the context, he may or may not be. Jesus is my lord, and the Father is his lord. Kind of a "boss's boss" scenario. However, there's a difference between kurios and theos. Even between "lord" "kurios" and "adonai" ... the words mean similar things, but each has it's own connotation.
I a not talking about adonai... just kurios. And it is not a trap I am just pointing out that you are inconsistent in the way you read the verse. If you were consistent then you would have to say that the Father is NOT kurios.
As for the Greek argument you made you are in error.... not sure were you are getting your info from but it is way off..... not even sure the WT would argue that.
Problem is, "kurios" is a general term. Lordship can be given, taken away, earned, lost. "Theos" or "ho theos" is something a being either is or isn't. God is our God, and ultimate ruler, but he has given authority/ownership/leadership/the title "kurios" to the Son.
i.e. God's still the boss, however, he assigned Jesus to be our supervisor.
{the devil is in his left eye}. I don't believe that. I believe that anyone malicious, outright lies, makes his whole body dark like the Bible says. This is the disposition of Satan, he is a liar, and the father of the lie. John 8:44.
Judaism, Christiandom, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confusianism-Taoism-Buddhism,Shintoism, and Tribal religions. Do these religions teach that God's Kingdom is the ONLY HOPE FOR PEACE ON EARTH? Not one. And yet Jehovah organization teaches what the Bible says about this Kingdom, and what is soon to happen. Daniel 2:44 - During the days of these kings (earthly rulers) the God of heaven will set up a Kingdom that will not be brought to ruin. It itself, will crush & put and end to all these kingdoms
So can't the moon, and this astrological data (sorry for hte confusion saying astrology, I know what you're saying, but this subjecct sometimes interests the Illuminati folks, and they say odd things like that) tell you when the temple DID fall? Can you get back to me? And like I said regardless of the exact year, it's going to be close to WWi and why does the Bible include those numbers and the tree metaphor and all that? Why? AS IF JWs just make this stuff up. Some people just hate the bible.
The raising of Jesus from the dead, is clearly done by (his GOD) and Father.
This man(Jesus) was handed over to you by GOD's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you with the help of wicked men, put him to death etc... But GOD raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death. Acts.2:23,24
By Jesus doing the will of (his GOD) and Father, Jesus knew that GOD would raise him. So indirectly Jesus would be causing his own resurrection by obeying GOD.
Didn't you read Act,2:22,23? It says, GOD raised Jesus.
Also, Acts.5:30 says, GOD raised Jesus from the dead.
God raised Jesus from the dead on the 3rd. day, and caused him to be seen, not by all, but by witnesses chosen by GOD. Acts.10:40,41
No Jesus was not lying when He said that he has a God. "My God and your God". Jesus did not say Our God. And please learn yourself the Trinity. Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. Nor is the Father the Holy Spirit. They are all God, but not 3 gods.
And Jesus called His Father God. And Jesus was referd to as Lord. The old testament says there is only one Lord. so does that mean that the Father is not Lord? - Sorry, you fall short with your own standard.
You said it yourself "the trinity", this is a Catholic doctrine created in the 4th century that you should look up in the Cath Encycl. Because the claim is that they are all these people at the same time and all equal. The only reason we don't embrace the trinity is that scripture amplifies more important truths that are out of harmony with this Catholic/Babylonian doctrine. Jesus in heaven in Rev. says that he had a prophecy which God gave him. God gave him the prophecy, two people not equal.
When you rebuild a temple, do you use the same bricks, all in the same positions? Or can you use new bricks to rebuild a temple?
The romans destroyed Jesus' body, killing him. The Father restored him to life, and Jesus (in an immortal form) was free to reshape his body as he saw fit (although it was no longer mortal and human).
This would explain him "raising the temple," but his father raising "him." Although, your points aren't entirely bad.
Question for you though... if it was his old, mortal, human body that he was raised into... why was he unrecognizable by his friends who'd seen him 3 days before? More importantly, how was he walking around with wounds that were fatal 3 days before?
Why do you think he would be raised to mortality, THEN translated into immortality? Why not simply resurrect Jesus into an immortal form?
Brother, some of us are not suitable for internet witnessing. You are not one of those, lol. Hats off to you. Good answers, good attitude, good everything. Thanks for making my day. :)
Jesus' words, "In three days I will raise it up," were merely predicting that the temple would be raised up on the third day after his death, Jehovah God was the one who raised up the temple by first raising up the head member of it, the Lord Jesus Christ, and from then on, from that third day on, God used him to raise up all the other members of the temple class.
JN 10:17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again.
WHY WAS THE TOMB EMPTY?pls don`t give me that jehovah disposed of his body cos that is not in the bible.the bible does say that the tomb was empty cos JESUS CHRIST,GOD ALMIGHTY(MATT28:18),ROSE 2 LIFE AND LEFT THE TOMB.HOW CAN JESUS AND GOD RAISE JESUS? COS JESUS IS GOD!
Yes (for John 10:17), he has the authority, or right (given to him by his Father) to take it up, or receive it again. This does not mean he did it himself. He simply has "the right or authority" to lay it down, and receive it back by his Father.
Matt 28:18: "... All power (or authority) is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth."
If he already had it, why would it be GIVEN to him... and by WHOM?
u don`t know the bible cos u read tooo much error filled wt mag.
Jesus gave up his glory and power when he came down to earth and became man.then He took it up again.
everyone knows where Jesus was buried unlike moses. so tell me according to the BIBLE(not the error filled wts) y is the tomb empty?give me only biblical passages.
Jesus did not take back his fleshly body and thereby cancel out the ransom for which it was given. He materialized various fleshly bodies to suit the occasion, for the purpose of giving to his disciples visible, palpable evidence of his resurrection. Several times he manifested himself and was recognized, not by his appearance, but by his words and actions.
Mark 16:12 different "form" from the Greek word morphe.
The disciples looked upon his very face, but even then they doubted. The nail-prints, and the pierced side were marks which they could not dispute. He wasn't trying to prove he was in the same body. He was just showing them something that they would RECOGNIZE (as stated by Thomas when in doubt earlier) of him being alive again.
He didn't say "And these are the EXACT SAME wounds I had before death" (lying???) They didn't have to be (wasn't necessary) for them to believe he came back. And they did believe... whether Thomas actually touched the wounds (doesn't say) or not. I certainly WOULDN'T say "Sorry sir, these aren't the real ones before death... your just a huckster... and a liar." John 20:29
the wts teaches that Jesus started rule in 1914 bt there is NO proof outside the wts literature to support ur 1914 date.histry ,archeology and even the bible proves that 1914 is A FALSE DATE.
IF U REALLY GOT THE TRUTH Y DOES UR SOC STILL SUPPORT THIS WRONG DATE?
oh, and y would a dream that a pagan babilonian king ,nebucadnesser, had,have any prophetic value 2 christians 2day?if u don`t know what dream i`m talking about,it`s the seven times dream,the one with the tree that gets choppeddown
LK 24:37They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
Y DOES UR JESUS DECIEVE THE DECIPLES IN2 THINKING HE IS NOT A SPIRIT WHEN U SAY HE WAS? THEY THOUGHT HE WAS A SPIRIT BT Y DID HE PROVE THEM WRONG?THE DEVIL DECIEVES NOT JESUS,IF U FOLLOW A DECIEVER U R NOT IN THE TRUTH
1pr3:18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
WHATS UR POINT?
MK 16:12 12Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country.
THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED 2 HIS BODY.
DID U KNOW THAT THERE IS NOT A SINGLE VERSE IN THE BIBLE THAT PROVES "SPIRITS MATERIALIZE",
oh bleedbng, pls tell me y a holy God would entrust a devil worshipping freemason like c t russell 2 spread the"truth".
masons hate Jesus,they say he rose spiritually from the dead,they say he is not God,tthey believe in the tettragrammaton.they practice magic divination and other occultic practices which YHWH dispises. ct russell pyramide at his grave is a testomony that he never left freemasonry.he even admitted been a mason publcly.
that site also claims that freemasonry is not a religion and has nothing 2 do with lucifer.anyone who knows anything about masonry will tell u that they r the BUILDERS(of solomons temple) that reject the STONE(Jesus) and r satan worshippers
tell me bleed,how did c t russell know secret grips(handshakes) that ONLY members know? y does the pyramide have the at his grave watchtower and tract society on it? and who built it later on,was it the wts.
J.Smith, B.Young, and N.V.Peale are there. Why not just add Russell if he were documented?
Maybe someone just told him the handshake? I Googled it and got some passwords too. Anyways, the pyramid was put there by one of the splinter groups (not the WTS) a few years later after he died.
firstly,there was NO internet those days,secondly freemason take a DEATH oath if they reveal secrets of freemasonry.there is only one way he could have known about the grips. HE WAS A MASSON!
Anyways, the pyramid was put there by one of the splinter groups (not the WTS) a few years later after he died.
THIS IS A LIE COS ON THE PYRAMIDE THE WATCHTOWER AND TRACT SOCIETY IS IMPRINTED AND CT RUSSELL WAS A BIG PROPREGATOR OF THE PYRAMIDE 2 B CON..
Then blow the whistle they'd be disfellowshipped in a heartbeat. the 1914 date comes from the Bible, get a JW publication and compare. There's a chronology listed in scripture that ended in 1914 when WWI started. Historians agree the world was never the same after this.There are no other chronologies in the Bible that go past 1914. Arnie, before making statements about where JW got the info, you may want to check and see what scriptures we say we got it from. Otherwise you're just talking...
Hi Jedi.... literally THOUSANDS of ancient records that include irrefutable astrological data prove beyond the shadow of any doubt that 607 is absolutely the WRONG date.
Put down the Watchtowers and read what archeologist.... Christian, secular and Jewish say about 607.
The wrong date for what? And why would I consult astrology? Here's what I get out of my study of the Bible 14 years ago with JW's... we are living in the last days. There appears to be a chronology that bears this out coupled with prophecy. But for me, I just look around. I could care less about the numbers and if 607 was wrong then guess what? it was 608, or 605? So? Historians all agree that around 1914-1917 the world dramatically changed. I see what I see. Last days or not, I still love God.
!914 is based on the year 607 for the destruction of the temple. If the temple did not fall in 607 (which it did not) then 1914 is an unbiblical date.
And its not astrology. Ancient people recorded full moons... eclipses and the like and dated them by the year of the kings rule. So we can figure out when these events happened by the astrological data...
And yes the world changed then.... they also say the world dramatically changed with the computer, the car, ww2, the nuclear age
Every historian out there will tell you that WWI was one of the most dramatic shifts in human history. Entire books are written on this subject, and it's a pretty popular topic with the most respected historians. Not one or two, or five. It's a big deal topic. The latest commentator on it is Alan Greenspan LOL, if you dig that kind of thing. I'm not saying he's any great historian, though. It's an interesting topic and surely mankind is always in a state of flux.
They didn't do that after the fact.You don't even make sense. Not only is that in the older publications before 1914, but it was published in newspapers after that the ISBA(notJW) looked to that year as fulfillment of a Bible Prophecy. If secular dates are correct, then 1937 is the End of the Gentile Times. It doesn't matter. There's not suddenly a trinity, or eternal torment or no preaching to be done, no ransom (which the trinity nullifies, he was never human, he was never dead= no sacrifice)
Please share with me the date the temple fell. Thanks. You do agree there is a Chronology there, no? That's in the Bible, not a JW made up thing, so surely that's something you're aware of. End of the Gentile times. Right? When is it. Thanks.
the end of the gentile times came in 1948 when isreal was declared an indipendant state .that is when the rule of all the gentiles i.e romans,arabs,british ended.NOT 1914!!!
tell me jedi, how cn jw`s say 539 bce is a sure date bt 587bc is`nt. was 539 printed on the nebudonis chronical or was it derived the same way as 587 bc date?
go check the chronology of the babilonian kings and u`ll c that 20 yrs r missing if u use ur false 607 date.
Any JW that was a freemason would be disfellowshipped. That's freaky stuff. That's why I think you're lying. So that means you're a freemason, because they don't disclose who they are. So if 607 is wrong, it's right around there, tell me the date. That chronology is in the Bible, JW's didn't make it up, so there's a date somewhere. As far as fleshly Israel goes, "Look your house is abandoned to you" If you're an Iluminati watcher, don't you believe the Bible is evil and controlled by reptiles?
we don't have "high ranking" elders, just elders. and like I said, if you provide the congregation with that info they will be disfellowshipped, and there is a judiciary committee, but there's not even a case to hear, if they're in that, they're out faster than they can pack their book bags, also they would be labeled as apostates and not viewed as some other DF'd, like "gee, I hope they come back." we're all hopes, these people, Nope. Willful involvement in freemasonry currently? Wow Incredible
so circuitoverseers r not high ranking elders? as old russell said "WE(wts) are MASONS" and "I AM A FREE AND ACCEPTED MASON"
now pls tell me y they would disfellow ppl who r masons like themselves?
ur unbiblical doctrine of theocratic war strategy is shared by ur bretheren the masons, so u would never admit 2 any envolvement cos"I`M NOT ENTITELED 2 THAT INFORMATION" right?
You have some delusions that need to be cleared up, but you're going to have to do that yourself. No circuit overseer is a freemason. I have told you what to do in the case where you believe otherwise. What you do is up to you. If this is so evil, surely you would want to expose that. Or maybe you just like to babble incoherently on the internet? We don't believe in the immortal soul doctrine. If there are circuit overseers that do, (lol) they are surrounded by people that don't. Take care now.
I just heard some other nut online telling people that JESUS name comes from Zeus, which is a lot closer, btw. And so they're worshipping Zeus, you two should get together and go bowling.The names are taken from Hebrew, but it doesn't matter anyway. I don't know what you mean about the war strategy, we've never been told to lie. Look, if all this characterization makes you feel good, then that's your business, but none of it is really true, so whatever. These are things you tell yourself.
Two groups always have comparisons and contrasting points. I guarentee I can find similarities between your denomination and the KKK. That doesn't make you the same.
Feel free to push the mason issue... if your best argument is that "One dude had bad associations 100 years ago" ... I think we're doing pretty good.
We've already dealt with that point... it's nice to see you don't have any stronger ones ;)
Yes, 100 years ago, Russel agreed with free masonry. He also still celebrated Christmas, and did a number of things we don't do now. Over a few decades, we got rid of a lot of teachings we didn't find to be in harmony with the bible. Because one founder was also a free mason doesn't mean it's still part of our religion. Any more than "All catholics have swords" because peter (the first pope) cut that guy's ear off when they arrested Jesus.
there is an outer and an inner version of ur org.on the outside it appears u have dropped it bt the initiates,the masons,still practice it.
tell me if the wts was founded by anton le vay (a mason and founder of the church of satan) and the wts changed it`s views on what he taught. wud u b a jw?
and do u think it`s just a coincidence that many new religions where founder by masons? i.e jehovah`s witnesses, mormons,scientology,kkk,christian science,thelema,hotd, etc,etc.
Oh nooooOz! A watchtower half a century ago used the word "war strategy" in reference to spreading the message of the bible as if people's lives depend on it... which they do.
... that must make us terrorists.
I dig your logic.
I've been a witness for over 20 years, and have moved around between dozens of congregations... we don't "lie to the uninitiated."
Also... not to be a grammar nazi... but at least abbreviate "because" properly. "Cuz" is OK. "Cos?" why?
ur own literature condems u as a deciever this is y the wts is from the father of lies.
God's Word commands: "Speak truth each of you wish his neighbor." (Eph. 4:25). This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive (The Watchtower Je 1, 1960:351-352).
Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others.... Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary; it does much good (p. 284-285).2 b cont.
"saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person" (Franz, Vol. 2, 1988:244). They then add:
While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.
THIS TEACHING IS NOT FROM YHWH A HOLY GOD BT FROM THE FATHER OF LIES ,SATAN!!!
Hi arnie, if you look at Illuminati teachings, they differ from the Bible quite a bit. The Bible actually does not teach the immortal soul doctrine or that God is three headed, babylonian. Russel had the Bible study group that decades later took the name JW's only after stripping away some false worldly doctrine that would be incompatible with use of the Holy name, prior to this. Only some of the beliefs would be connected with Russell and the 7th D.A. You want to compare current understandings.
actually, egeiro is translated as I WIIL RAISE UP, the word for it auton means HE! Get yourself an Interlinear! Do we need to take your word for it as to what the Jehova Witnesses believe? Why would I do that, you dont even understand your own "faith"? What is with you and the Witnesses? Jesus sees you!
HolyRollerSpirit1 6 months ago 6
Jesus didnt say he was talking about his body. Jesus said TEMPLE. John assumed that he was talking of his body. Be honest. Paul says many times that God raised Jesus and the witnesses believe that God raised him. You are the one who disagrees with what is written. Jesus didnt really say "I" will raise it up. Lets take a look cont.
HolyRollerSpirit1 6 months ago 5
2 Corinthians 4:14,"knowing that he who raised Jesus up will raise us up also together with Jesus and will present us together with you." 1 Corinthians 1:14,God raised up the Lord. It doesn't say, the Lord raised up the Lord. But GOD raised up his Son.God raised him up and then seated himright next to himself, at his right hand-Ephesians 1:20.Colossians 2:12, God raised him up from the dead. John 15:26, As the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself.
eternityandforever 8 months ago
@eternityandforever
Yeah, the Bible also says that time will come that the dead will rise. This statement instills in us the certainty that there really is the resurrection of the dead. The statement was not meant to make us believe that the dead will rise on their own, without God's intervention.
The same is true with Jesus' statement that instilled confidence that indeed he will rise again. And he did, albeit with God's intervention.
rhodanageorge 7 months ago
@rhodanageorge eh, who was it that said; I AM The Resurrection and The Life? And why did he say it?
rustyshadow7 7 months ago
@eternityandforever
That is why Hebrews 5:7 says of Jesus (ASV): "Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear."
Jesus' strong and tearful pleads were heard and he was saved out of death. How could the statement "save him from death" be true when he died anyway? It was true because God raised him up and did not leave him in death forever.
rhodanageorge 7 months ago
Jesus the Anti-Christ is a false Prophet.
ACLu71 9 months ago
@ACLu71 *sarcastic* so the Christ is the antichrist now? That's as stupid as some people can get...
Cutie9326 2 months ago
no they dont think that
olivecow 1 year ago
The Father raised Jesus from the dead; Romans 10:9
Jesus raised Himself from the dead; John 2:19-21; John 10:17-18
The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead; Romans 8:11
So, who raised Jesus from the dead here? Let's use some logic now!
rm7890 1 year ago
"Paul, an apostle, neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him up from the dead."
So if the Father resurrects the Son, are yuo saying Jesus cannot rise up. Je can because he is ALIVE!
How can a DEAD and UNCONSCIOUS PERSON RESUURECT HIMSELF?
A person "whose thoughts have perished" cannot even DECIDE to do ANYTHING, let alone RESURRECT HIMSELF.
Sorry, but it is COMPLETE NONSENSE!
Jesus died in the flesh & raised a spirit.
What is death?
customanalogue 1 year ago
@customanalogue If Jesus didn't rise in the flesh, then the man (flesh) who died did not rise. And, as Paul said, "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." (1 Cor 15:17)
rpierre777 10 months ago
@customanalogue There is a difference btw being raised from the dead and "rematerializing". Elijah Muhammad "appeared" to Farrakan after he died on a mountain. So, what you're saying is Elijah Muhammad raised from the dead, too?
rpierre777 10 months ago
@customanalogue "Jesus died in the flesh & raised a spirit."
There is a difference btw being raised from the dead and "rematerializing". After he died, Elijah Muhammad "appeared" to Farrakan on a mountain. So, what you're saying is Elijah Muhammad rose from the dead, too? If so, why is Elijah's remains still in the grave, yet, Jesus' remains weren't? If Jesus' body was destroyed, then how could the prophecy be fulfilled...(cont)
rpierre777 10 months ago
@customanalogue "Jesus died in the flesh & raised a spirit."
...(cont) which says, "because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay." (Ps 16:10; Acts 2:31)
rpierre777 10 months ago
@rpierre777
I really don't know what your beef is and it's all so tiresome.
Jesus died about 3PM on the Friday and was resurrected on a Sunday. Jesus did come in the flesh being born of a woman and was the "last" or second Adam. Adam died, Jesus died. But Jesus was raised.
So what's the problem? Stick to the Bible and what it says, be sensible.
If my Mother wakes me in the morning, what do I do. I "raise my body". I get up.
Also if a person is not really dead they don't need a resurrection.
customanalogue 10 months ago
@customanalogue And that's my beef. From a human aspect, they are dead. From God's aspect, they are living. (Matt 9:24; Mk 5:39; Lk 8:52; Jn 11:11-12) This is why Jesus said God is "ot the God of the dead, but of the living." (Matt 22:32) If we cannot see past the flesh, they we will never know nor understand God, His nature, nor His power.
rpierre777 10 months ago
@rpierre777
If to make a point you have to misquote Mat 22:32 so badly, that says a lot about you.
Are you suggesting Abraham, Isaac and jacob will resurrect themselves? Have you taken leave of your senses?
Read verses 22-32 to get the correct context, otherwise you are distorting Jesus. It was an answer to the Sadducees who said there was no resurrection. Jesus simply corrected them. They WILL have a resurrection. There WILL be a resurrrection of the "rightous and unrightous." John 5:28,29
customanalogue 10 months ago
@customanalogue I'm not misquoting anything. I am in no way suggesting they will resurrect themselves. That would be making them equal to Christ (which they are not). Yes, there will be a resurrection, but I think many people get confused about the "state of the dead" because they can only look at it from the ground up (to heaven) instead of from heaven down to the ground. The dead are dead to us, but sleep to God.
rpierre777 10 months ago
@rpierre777
I have to ask you this:
If you believe people can resurrect themselves, then we have no need for God.
If Jesus resurrected himself, then he had no need for the Father.
This remind me of another belief out there: Do you believe in Evolution?
"That “it was counted to him” was written, however, not for his sake only, but also for the sake of us to whom it is destined to be counted, because we believe on *HIM* who raised Jesus our Lord up from the dead."
Who is *HIM* ? ? ?
customanalogue 10 months ago
1~@customanalogue I never said PEOPLE can raise themselves. I just acknowledge that Christ rose Himself on the third day as He said He would. In a way, I do believe in evolution. I have "evolved" from an unrighteous sinner to a repentive christian. The "HIM" is God, but you seem to misunderstand that it doesn't take away from Jesus fulfilling what He said He would. Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (Jn 2:19) The context is found in verse 21.
rpierre777 10 months ago
2~@customanalogue "But he spake of the temple of his body." It is just like how it's written that all things were made by Christ, yet, we still say God created everything. When we come to realize that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, then we see that when Christ does something, it IS God doing it.
rpierre777 10 months ago
3~@customanalogue Now, the "HIM" would be the Spirit of God, also-seeing how the Spirit is God. (2 Cor 3:17)
rpierre777 10 months ago
What did Jesus mean at Luke 23:46 when he said "Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.” ?
Why would Jesus need to entrust anything to the Father if he were planning to raise himself to life?
If he COULD raise himself to life then he wasn't truly dead was he? If he wasn't truly dead, then the ransom wasn't paid, our sins have not been atoned for and we will never have everlasting life.
In denying that Jesus was too dead to resurrect himself, you are denying the whole ransom.
xLonewolf 1 year ago
God Bless You, I am so glad I found this video.........How can anyone claim their Lord and Savior to be a false prophet.....This video needs to be seen by ALL JWs. I know Jesus was bodily raised for all of us believers--- for without this resurrection their would be no resurrection for any of us.....They must change their thinking if they actually think they will be resurrected for eternity....AMEN
dbspooky 1 year ago
Jesus was NOT raised in his fleshly body! He GAVE that body to US as a sacrifice! Why would he need it back? If someone pays a debt for their friend and then takes back the payment, obviously the debt continues...likewise if after Jesus was resurrected, he TOOK BACK his flesh and blood, where is the sacrifice??
Jesus appeared to his disciples in a physical form just as angels had done in the OT. The linen clothes were left behind but Jesus was always clothed after his resurrection.
xLonewolf 1 year ago
@xLonewolf Why can't you just answer 21crosscheck's question---Is Jesus a false prophet???---your comment sure supports an answer of "yes he was".......is this your logic or WT logic
dbspooky 1 year ago
@dbspooky If Jesus were to raise himself from the dead then he wasn't really dead! As simple as that.
Many times the Bible uses language that a person can achieved the goal of salvation by himself as if it was without the aid of God.
1Tim.4:16 says: "Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you"
Can we literally "save ourselves?" Or is Jehovah the one who saves us through his Son? Yet Paul said here that we could "save ourselves!"
xLonewolf 1 year ago
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dbspooky 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@xLonewolf @xLonewolf Jesus said he would raise himself-his body..on yeah His body was dead---but 1 Pet 3:18 ...he was alive in spirit....are you going to also deny that His spirit raised Him???????? BTW How in the world WT can turn this verse into a resurrection is way way way way beyond me.. Also please check out John 10:18--JESUS WAS IN CONTROL
dbspooky 1 year ago
@dbspooky Other examples:
Lk 8:48: "But he said to her: "Daughter, your faith has made you well." Did the "girls'" faith make her well? Or was it God's power? Jesus said it was the girls' own faith that did it.
Lk: "Whoever wants to save his soul will lose it but whoever loses his soul for my sake is the one that will save it."
All these examples, as well as others many more, show that one can be credited for something as having done it by himself. This is similar to Jesus' "raising himself."
xLonewolf 1 year ago
@dbspooky "he was made alive in the spirit." -- Exactly that scrip is clear -- he was resurrected to a spirit body not a fleshly body.
God's Holy Spirit -- His Power -- raised up Jesus just as God said.
With regards to John10:18, God gave Jesus the keys to Death and Hades so yes authority was given to raise people from the dead
Read John 6:57
xLonewolf 1 year ago
@xLonewolf Again--that is not his resurrection...show me where that is his resurrection-----impossible--I challenge you. Upon his physical death he was immediately alive in the spirit--has nothing to do with his resurrection. His body was resurrected 3 days later-----again you are accepting a twisted logic----If you can find me a verse then I will have something to think about. Again--that is not a resurrection---His Spirit NEVER DIED--only his physical body-spirit needed no resurrection
dbspooky 1 year ago
@dbspooky His spirit died. I do not believe in the unbiblical teaching of immortal soul and everlasting hellfire, etc. like you believe. And that is a whole different topic.
xLonewolf 1 year ago
@xLonewolf Could you please back up your "His spirit died" comment with a scripture from the Word of God. I personally do not think you can find one as 1 Pet 3:18 says he was alive in the Spirit...I love the Bible and the scriptures in it--so if you can find one that says His spirit died, then I will love that scripture as much as any other in God's Holy Word. I surely do not need any commentaries--just scripture
dbspooky 1 year ago
@dbspooky Psalms 146:4, Ecclesiastes 9:5, Daniel 12:2, Genesis 3:19, Luke 23:46, Eccl 12:7; Job 12:9,10; James 2:26
All these contradict the idea of an immortal soul.
Mark 15:37: With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.
"Spirit" means breath, or life force. When we die this "life force" is gone otherwise we wouldn't be dead.
xLonewolf 1 year ago
@xLonewolf You still didn't answer my question...what verse shows that His spirit died.....I eagerly await
dbspooky 1 year ago
@dbspooky I don't need to show one single verse. The whole bible supports what I say. I find it ridiculous that people think Jesus actually descended into a literal place called hell as a perfect faithful person and was still conscious. The spirit is the life force. If Jesus' life force was still alive then he didn't die and the whole bible is a lie!
People who believe ones spirit lives on is still believing the first lie of Satan. "You positively will not die."
xLonewolf 1 year ago
@xLonewolf You make Jesus out to be a mere man with a response like that........Where Jesus descended has absolutely nothing to do with the question I asked..Over and over when JWs cannot answer a question they substitute an easy answer with something that has nothing to do with it or flee from the question with an unrelated comment or question. If you can't or refuse to answer this then I know that you are stumped...as no such verse exist. Jesus Spirit NEVER died. GOD CANNOT DIE. flesh can
dbspooky 1 year ago
@dbspooky "God CANNOT DIE"?
Then the sacrifice was in vain and your sins were not forgiven. What a horrible lie.
God is not flesh, he is not man.
Jesus was 100% man when he was on earth and 0% God or angel.
The teaching that Jesus has two natures is not found anywhere in the bible.
"The dead are conscious of nothing at all." No exceptions. Jesus did not descend into a place of hellfire. GOD himself was not in hell, the place of separation from Himself (lol).
xLonewolf 1 year ago
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dbspooky 1 year ago
@xLonewolf The sacrifice was the BLOOD of Jesus through his physical death.....And the Bible assures us IT WAS NOT IN VAIN
dbspooky 1 year ago
@xLonewolf Look up the word "manifested", "manifest", and tell us how this applies itself in biblical scriptures!
rm7890 1 year ago
@rm7890 You reduce God to a mere image. "Manifest" proves nothing. 1st of all that scripture is talking about Jesus, not God. 2nd of all even if it was talking about God, He is not a man, just like God is not a "burning bush."
You reduce Jesus' body to a mere shell or 'vehicle' that he carried around for somehow he managed to survive "ceasing to exist" (death). The only part that died was a mere 1/3 of the godhead, but even that mere 3rd didn't really die.
God's blood? More like illusion.
fallingskyward118 1 year ago
@fallingskyward118 you say manifested proves nothing, why does it noy prove anything? How else do you think that God would be able to put us under his grace, and out from under the Mosaic Law?
rm7890 1 year ago
@rm7890 You are implying that God needed to manifest himself in order to forgive us. You are oversimplifying His love.
I meant it proves nothing with regard to his identity. Revealing that he is a "trinity" (man-made word) has nothing to do with his purpose and will.
fallingskyward118 1 year ago
@fallingskyward118 How many words are NOT man-made???? You call a coat a coat because a man made up a word to describe a garment he made. You call a car a car because some man made up that word to describe the object that he created. When we don't know what something is, we call it a "thing"-another man-made word to decribe something we don't know or understand. So, again, what words do you know aren't man-made?
rpierre777 10 months ago
@rpierre777 I don't recall saying "trinity" is a manmade word. It's a manmade concept, the whole idea is. Show me in the bible any synonom for trinity. If it's an actual doctrine where is any illustration or allegory that Jesus used for it? Not only does Jesus not once mention such a concept, it is not even implicitly mentioned anywhere. It is fabricated by man's imagination.
And yes the word 'God' cannot describe His greatness -- nor does it identify him from all the other "gods."
He is YHWH
fallingskyward118 10 months ago
@fallingskyward118 Also, we use the man-made word "God" to describe God. It's simply three letters that we use to describe a being who is so much greater than us, that we cannot truly use words to fully describe Him. So, we made up a word that would automatically encompass all that we perceive God to be. And, it is by the definition of the man-made word the we determine why no one else can have that position in our lives.
rpierre777 10 months ago
@fallingskyward118 God did have to manifest Himself in order to forgive us. (Isa 59:15-18) You know, a lot of people don't know where the amour of God comes from. They think it's just in Ephesians 6:11-17. Well, this is the amour of God because He put it on so He can intercede and redeem mankind since there was no one else. All have sinned and fallen short of His glory. (Rm 3:23) This is why God can say He is the only saviour. (Isa 43:11)
rpierre777 10 months ago
@rpierre777 God's qualities are manifested EVERYWHERE! In his creation that you see all around you and especially in his only begotten son whom he gave! God provided us a savior. It was not Jesus own will that he was to save us, it was his Father's will. Jesus own words. 2 different wills mean 2 different minds there's no getting around that -- they are two distinct beings. To say Jesus saved out of his own will is to call him a liar.
fallingskyward118 10 months ago
@xLonewolf hell doesnt exist
olivecow 1 year ago
@olivecow Yes I know, hell is the grave, not literal hellfire.
TheRebeckoning 1 year ago
so whats your belief
georgeeboy2222 1 year ago
hey i have a question for you my friend...do you have any friends? you look kinda lonely..what is your position on that?
lonliness cuases dementia.. go out and fly i kite, walk a dog, you know. get out and meet some people and make friends...it will work wonders for you! i promise!!
deathorglory100 1 year ago
I was a JW for 10 yrs and got out of it..i was very depressed alot better now.but my son who studies with them has shunned me for the past 2 yrs ,because i left.....
Irm6001 1 year ago
The guy shouldn't have said,
"God bless " at the end. You are not to greet false teachers or receive them into your home. Don't say "God speed " or " God bless" or anything to them that would let them think they are doing God's will or don't say anything to them that would encourage Jehovah Witnesses to go on in their evil ways. If you greet them or receive them into your home, you share in their evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-11
kristinelovesrain 2 years ago
all religions are wrong and jesus is a false prophet because he claims to be devine. the lord and saviour...
anyone who claims devinity is a false prophet. anyone who stands for religion is giving their lives to the hounds of hell. the bible is writen by man. and writen in order to create a false prophet
SendMoreCops666 2 years ago
There are a lot of Jehovah Witnesses in pyschiatric hospitals, is that really true?
Journeyride 2 years ago
Hi Journey ride... I don't know but I think Jwmediafilms did a video on Jws and depression. I also know that Dr. Jerry Bergman has written on the issue.
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
they says that he didn't raise himself, not that he wasn't raised.
bababybwoo 2 years ago
Thats the point of the video... Jesus said he would raise himself.
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
21crosscheck21, I remember that also, and my pastor taught it, but I can't remember any keywords in Greek or English to help me find the verse. Do you remember where it is? Or are you thinking of John 2:19's wit?
brainout1 2 years ago
customanalogue 1 year ago
@customanalogue ???
That was the point of the video (or at least that is what Crosscheck talke about during the video).
"If a person is TRULY DEAD then he CANNOT RESURRECT HIMSELF."
Well, tell Jesus that seeing He said He would raise Himself.
rpierre777 10 months ago
@21crosscheck21 The WORD(one word) for "I will raise it up" kinda funny how ONE WORD is translated to a PHRASE, but anyway, the WORD: egeiro-uses in the Bible 141 Times as follows:
arise (5), arisen (2), arises (1), awake (1), awaken (1), awoke (1), cause (1), get (17), gets (2), got (11), lift (1), raise (10), raised (61), raises (2), rise (5), rise again (2), risen (13), rose (1), rose again (1), stand (1), woke (3) WHY is there an "I" ADDED on this verse?.
HolyRollerSpirit1 6 months ago 9
So demons decieve people and you think Jesus also decieves people ? Emmh are we talking the Biblical Jesus or the Gnostic Jesus ?
ironjohnlad 2 years ago
Don't be a smartass.
ratboi102 2 years ago
Hay i am me, like me of lothe me ! What you get is what I am ! By the way re the Gospels of Luke and John, there is no way that the authers meant what you have said.. That of course may be different from what either of us believe. The first question is, what did the autheor mean by what he wrote ? John
ironjohnlad 2 years ago
Let's not forget, demons take the form of dead people all the time. Wouldn't Jesus, the son of God, possess the same ability?
ratboi102 2 years ago
"I (through the power of God) will raise myself."
Jesus went back to being a spirit creature when his human body died. His human-existance was non-existant, not his spirit body.
I find you take many things in the most litteral context. Gotta work on that.
ratboi102 2 years ago
take a look at the ressurection stories in Luke and John. Jesus has a physical ressurection in both these gospels ! The idea that Jesus was raised as an invisible spirit, is in fact a gnostic idea. The gnostics denied Jesus had a physicle ressurection, so the wtbts are really just recyling an ancient gnostic idea rejected by the authors of Luke and John
ironjohnlad 2 years ago
I haven't been active in spiritual matters for a while, so i'm running on memory here, but he was in fact a spirit being, but he took the form of a human in order to see his desciples (and that chick) again. And not suprisingly, not only would it help them recognize him as they knew him, but he likely also knew that our minds couldn't comprehend his spirit form.
ratboi102 2 years ago
You seem to be missing the point. The Gospel's od Luke and John clearly indicate that Jesus had a physicle ressurection. Take a look at these gospel storys and read then for yourself. Dot just remember the JW properganda.
ironjohnlad 2 years ago
I have read them. And i don't blindly buy in to "propoganda", as you so politely stated. I'm naturally a free-thinker, a questioner, an intellectual, so i pick through things and learn and observe as much as i can about them. In my eyes, the JWs know what they're talking about. I'm not saying you have to draw the same conclusions, but their's is what seems the most logical to ME.
ratboi102 2 years ago
Comment removed
DJAnihilist 2 years ago
they have NO idea what they are talking about, did you know there is a psychiatric hospital nicknamed the "watchtower" after JWs magazines they put out because there is so many JWs in psychiatric hospitals
undergroundAOTP 2 years ago
@undergroundAOTP haha,this guys account is closed,one wonders where he is?
georgeeboy2222 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the wts has a lot of secrets.for example ur assosiation 2 the U.N (which the wts demonises) from 1992 - 2001.
the initiates believe there OWN truth and ur theocratic war stategy justifies them lying to the uninitiated cos THEY R NOT INTITALED 2 IT,right!
arnie365 2 years ago
Now, let me ask you another thing... all your videos seem to uniformly be bashing JWs.
Being so adamantly against one denomination, and not even mentioning the flaws of any others (Pentacostals, for example), shows that you're less worried about doctrinal accuracy, and instead you're acting out on a personal vendetta.
... let me guess, you were a witness when you were young, and were upset about not getting birthday presents?
dasgregorian 2 years ago
Nope never a witness... no one in my family is a witness either. I have no personal vendetta against witnesses I am just reaching out in love.
If I was interested in bashing trust me my videos would be very different. I am sure you have seen some on youtube that are merely bashing.
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
Lastly, one of the posters stated "YOU DENY THE DEITY OF JESUS!" as an insult?
Well, so did Jesus. He repeatedly said that did NOTHING by his own will, but only acted in accordance with his God and Father.
You say "Jesus is the same being as the Father."
Jesus says "The Father is greater than I."
... So, yes... I follow Jesus and deny that he's something he specifically says he isn't.
Also, read 1 Corinthians 8:6 sometime: "There is for us only ONE God, the Father."
/pwnd.
dasgregorian 2 years ago
""""Also, read 1 Corinthians 8:6 sometime: "There is for us only ONE God, the Father."""""
How about the other half of that verse.... One Lord Jesus Christ...... If that verse excludes Jesus from being God it also excludes the Father from being "Lord."
Oops.......
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
Indeed. It specifies Jesus is "lord" (kurios), The Father is God (Ho theos).
Calling the Father "lord" instead of "God" is like calling the president a mayor. True, in the OT, he's referred to as "the LORD" (all caps) quite often... but when the word "LORD" is used, the transcribers were replacing the divine name (YHWH/Jehovah), with Adonai to avoid using his name in vain. Adonai was then translated as "LORD."
dasgregorian 2 years ago
Divine name aside.... you are not aware that the Father is called Kurios?
Is not the Father lord in your eyes?
And Jesus is called Ho Theos in John 20:28
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
context, context, context.
Also, for John 20:28, I'd suggest reading up a bit on greek sentence structure. "Ho kurios eimi et ho theos eimi" if I remember right. The phrase "Ho...eimi" indicates "My" ... if he'd said "kurios eimi" he'd be claiming to be a lord. But "ho kurios eimi" shows "the lord of me." Just because "ho" is next to "theos" doesn't mean Jesus was being called "ho theos." He was being called "ho theos eimi" or "the theos of me." Not "The theos."
Big difference.
dasgregorian 2 years ago
I am well aware of the Geek structure:
Thomas is is telling Jesus:
You are The Lord of me.... You are The God of me. That is very basic Greek Grammar.
So answer.... is the Father not your Lord?
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
And the "ho" refers to "eimi" not kurios or theos. So, yes, Jesus is called "theos" in the qualitative sense, but not "ho theos."
Your other question is a trap because based on the context, he may or may not be. Jesus is my lord, and the Father is his lord. Kind of a "boss's boss" scenario. However, there's a difference between kurios and theos. Even between "lord" "kurios" and "adonai" ... the words mean similar things, but each has it's own connotation.
dasgregorian 2 years ago
I a not talking about adonai... just kurios. And it is not a trap I am just pointing out that you are inconsistent in the way you read the verse. If you were consistent then you would have to say that the Father is NOT kurios.
As for the Greek argument you made you are in error.... not sure were you are getting your info from but it is way off..... not even sure the WT would argue that.
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
Problem is, "kurios" is a general term. Lordship can be given, taken away, earned, lost. "Theos" or "ho theos" is something a being either is or isn't. God is our God, and ultimate ruler, but he has given authority/ownership/leadership/the title "kurios" to the Son.
i.e. God's still the boss, however, he assigned Jesus to be our supervisor.
dasgregorian 2 years ago
{the devil is in his left eye}. I don't believe that. I believe that anyone malicious, outright lies, makes his whole body dark like the Bible says. This is the disposition of Satan, he is a liar, and the father of the lie. John 8:44.
lindquistrobert34 2 years ago 2
Judaism, Christiandom, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confusianism-Taoism-Buddhism,Shintoism, and Tribal religions. Do these religions teach that God's Kingdom is the ONLY HOPE FOR PEACE ON EARTH? Not one. And yet Jehovah organization teaches what the Bible says about this Kingdom, and what is soon to happen. Daniel 2:44 - During the days of these kings (earthly rulers) the God of heaven will set up a Kingdom that will not be brought to ruin. It itself, will crush & put and end to all these kingdoms
lindquistrobert34 2 years ago
And yet Jehovah organization teaches what the Bible says about this Kingdom
surely u mean what the wts` awake magazine teaches.the bible DOES`nt teach what u teach.
arnie365 2 years ago
So can't the moon, and this astrological data (sorry for hte confusion saying astrology, I know what you're saying, but this subjecct sometimes interests the Illuminati folks, and they say odd things like that) tell you when the temple DID fall? Can you get back to me? And like I said regardless of the exact year, it's going to be close to WWi and why does the Bible include those numbers and the tree metaphor and all that? Why? AS IF JWs just make this stuff up. Some people just hate the bible.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
The raising of Jesus from the dead, is clearly done by (his GOD) and Father.
This man(Jesus) was handed over to you by GOD's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you with the help of wicked men, put him to death etc... But GOD raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death. Acts.2:23,24
(GOD raised HIS Christ)
epic103 2 years ago
How then will you explain: Jesus saying that He will raise it up on the 3rd day?
Directline1000 2 years ago
By Jesus doing the will of (his GOD) and Father, Jesus knew that GOD would raise him. So indirectly Jesus would be causing his own resurrection by obeying GOD.
Didn't you read Act,2:22,23? It says, GOD raised Jesus.
Also, Acts.5:30 says, GOD raised Jesus from the dead.
God raised Jesus from the dead on the 3rd. day, and caused him to be seen, not by all, but by witnesses chosen by GOD. Acts.10:40,41
epic103 2 years ago
I have no problem with it saying GOD raised Jesus up from the dead - since Jesus also is GOD (Jahve/Jehovah).
Directline1000 2 years ago
So when Jesus said, he (has a GOD), Jesus is lying?
So, what your saying is, Jesus is The Christ, and he is (his own GOD) and Father? (Is Jesus both The Father and Son)?
That would be out of harmony with Scripture. Jesus clearly taught that he (has a GOD), not that he is GOD.
(There is only 1 True GOD)
epic103 2 years ago
No Jesus was not lying when He said that he has a God. "My God and your God". Jesus did not say Our God. And please learn yourself the Trinity. Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. Nor is the Father the Holy Spirit. They are all God, but not 3 gods.
And Jesus called His Father God. And Jesus was referd to as Lord. The old testament says there is only one Lord. so does that mean that the Father is not Lord? - Sorry, you fall short with your own standard.
And There is only one True God.
Directline1000 2 years ago
You said it yourself "the trinity", this is a Catholic doctrine created in the 4th century that you should look up in the Cath Encycl. Because the claim is that they are all these people at the same time and all equal. The only reason we don't embrace the trinity is that scripture amplifies more important truths that are out of harmony with this Catholic/Babylonian doctrine. Jesus in heaven in Rev. says that he had a prophecy which God gave him. God gave him the prophecy, two people not equal.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
When you rebuild a temple, do you use the same bricks, all in the same positions? Or can you use new bricks to rebuild a temple?
The romans destroyed Jesus' body, killing him. The Father restored him to life, and Jesus (in an immortal form) was free to reshape his body as he saw fit (although it was no longer mortal and human).
This would explain him "raising the temple," but his father raising "him." Although, your points aren't entirely bad.
dasgregorian 2 years ago
Question for you though... if it was his old, mortal, human body that he was raised into... why was he unrecognizable by his friends who'd seen him 3 days before? More importantly, how was he walking around with wounds that were fatal 3 days before?
Why do you think he would be raised to mortality, THEN translated into immortality? Why not simply resurrect Jesus into an immortal form?
That's our only objection to his "body" raising.
dasgregorian 2 years ago
Brother, some of us are not suitable for internet witnessing. You are not one of those, lol. Hats off to you. Good answers, good attitude, good everything. Thanks for making my day. :)
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Good video. P.S. are you in the laundry room?
SaveTheTapirs 2 years ago
Hey Save.... oohh so close. The laundry room door is about 18 inches to the right of me. How did you know that?
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
Haha, it sounded like a dryer was going or something...wow, I'm pretty good.
SaveTheTapirs 2 years ago
Jesus' words, "In three days I will raise it up," were merely predicting that the temple would be raised up on the third day after his death, Jehovah God was the one who raised up the temple by first raising up the head member of it, the Lord Jesus Christ, and from then on, from that third day on, God used him to raise up all the other members of the temple class.
BleedBNG 2 years ago
JN 10:17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again.
WHY WAS THE TOMB EMPTY?pls don`t give me that jehovah disposed of his body cos that is not in the bible.the bible does say that the tomb was empty cos JESUS CHRIST,GOD ALMIGHTY(MATT28:18),ROSE 2 LIFE AND LEFT THE TOMB.HOW CAN JESUS AND GOD RAISE JESUS? COS JESUS IS GOD!
arnie365 2 years ago
Yes (for John 10:17), he has the authority, or right (given to him by his Father) to take it up, or receive it again. This does not mean he did it himself. He simply has "the right or authority" to lay it down, and receive it back by his Father.
Matt 28:18: "... All power (or authority) is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth."
If he already had it, why would it be GIVEN to him... and by WHOM?
BleedBNG 2 years ago
u don`t know the bible cos u read tooo much error filled wt mag.
Jesus gave up his glory and power when he came down to earth and became man.then He took it up again.
everyone knows where Jesus was buried unlike moses. so tell me according to the BIBLE(not the error filled wts) y is the tomb empty?give me only biblical passages.
arnie365 2 years ago
1 Peter 3:18
Mark 16:12 (another form?)
Compare Genesis 19:1-3 with Luke 24:37,39-43
(spirits materializing and eating)
John 20:26 (with the doors locked shut?)
BleedBNG 2 years ago
Jesus did not take back his fleshly body and thereby cancel out the ransom for which it was given. He materialized various fleshly bodies to suit the occasion, for the purpose of giving to his disciples visible, palpable evidence of his resurrection. Several times he manifested himself and was recognized, not by his appearance, but by his words and actions.
BleedBNG 2 years ago
Please provide a single scripture that says Jesus "manufactured different bodies."
Did not Thomas ask to see the wounds that killed him? My friend you are calling Jesus a liar and a huckster.
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
Mark 16:12 different "form" from the Greek word morphe.
The disciples looked upon his very face, but even then they doubted. The nail-prints, and the pierced side were marks which they could not dispute. He wasn't trying to prove he was in the same body. He was just showing them something that they would RECOGNIZE (as stated by Thomas when in doubt earlier) of him being alive again.
BleedBNG 2 years ago
He didn't say "And these are the EXACT SAME wounds I had before death" (lying???) They didn't have to be (wasn't necessary) for them to believe he came back. And they did believe... whether Thomas actually touched the wounds (doesn't say) or not. I certainly WOULDN'T say "Sorry sir, these aren't the real ones before death... your just a huckster... and a liar." John 20:29
BleedBNG 2 years ago
the wts teaches that Jesus started rule in 1914 bt there is NO proof outside the wts literature to support ur 1914 date.histry ,archeology and even the bible proves that 1914 is A FALSE DATE.
IF U REALLY GOT THE TRUTH Y DOES UR SOC STILL SUPPORT THIS WRONG DATE?
oh, and y would a dream that a pagan babilonian king ,nebucadnesser, had,have any prophetic value 2 christians 2day?if u don`t know what dream i`m talking about,it`s the seven times dream,the one with the tree that gets choppeddown
arnie365 2 years ago
Daniel 4:17 connects the dream to the rulership of the Most High over mankind.
Who recognizes that today... and who doesn't?
BleedBNG 2 years ago
Daniel 4:17 connects the dream to the rulership of the Most High over mankind.
Who recognizes that today... and who doesn't?
what????
there is NOOOOOO conection with Gods people!!!
arnie365 2 years ago
LK 24:37They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
Y DOES UR JESUS DECIEVE THE DECIPLES IN2 THINKING HE IS NOT A SPIRIT WHEN U SAY HE WAS? THEY THOUGHT HE WAS A SPIRIT BT Y DID HE PROVE THEM WRONG?THE DEVIL DECIEVES NOT JESUS,IF U FOLLOW A DECIEVER U R NOT IN THE TRUTH
arnie365 2 years ago
I never said he couldn't materialize and dematerialize.
The angels that appeared to Lot even sat down and ate with him.
BleedBNG 2 years ago
yes from the beginning angels came down to earth n form themselves into humans so they can have relations with women its in the book of genesis
shonekaakaneika 2 years ago
where does it say that Jesus can`t "take back the ransom" and pls use a credible translation not the masonic nwt.
y is it masonic ? cos no other bible has words like GRAND MASTER and HIRIM ABIV and what about ACTIVE FORCE and MARSHMELLOW.
arnie365 2 years ago
Take back the ransom? Marshmellow?
BleedBNG 2 years ago
Take back the ransom? Marshmellow?
where does it say Jesus can not ,as u say ,take back the ransom by resurrecting Himself?
JOb 6:6 Will tasteless things be eaten without salt,
Or is there any taste in the slimy juice of MARSHMALLOW? NWT
THERE IS NOOOO OTHER TRANSLATION WITH MARSHMALLOWS!!!
arnie365 2 years ago
The word in Hebrew is "challamuth"
purslain... an insipid herb (broth of purslain)
umm(dot)edu(slash)altmed(slash)articles(slash)marshmallow(dash)000265(dot)htm
NOOO? ESV and JSP say "mallow"
BleedBNG 2 years ago
is mallow marshmallow?
arnie365 2 years ago
botanical(dot)com(slash)botanical(slash)mgmh(slash)m(slash)mallow07(dot)html
BleedBNG 2 years ago
1pr3:18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
WHATS UR POINT?
MK 16:12 12Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country.
THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED 2 HIS BODY.
DID U KNOW THAT THERE IS NOT A SINGLE VERSE IN THE BIBLE THAT PROVES "SPIRITS MATERIALIZE",
JN 20:26 HOW DID JESUS WALK ON WATER???
arnie365 2 years ago
I see the KJV and ISV use "by" for 1 Peter 3:18.
Most others use "in", but that's a TR, WH topic.
Gen 6:1,2; Gen 19:1,3; Jos 5:13-15 (for spirits materializing)
BleedBNG 2 years ago
oh bleedbng, pls tell me y a holy God would entrust a devil worshipping freemason like c t russell 2 spread the"truth".
masons hate Jesus,they say he rose spiritually from the dead,they say he is not God,tthey believe in the tettragrammaton.they practice magic divination and other occultic practices which YHWH dispises. ct russell pyramide at his grave is a testomony that he never left freemasonry.he even admitted been a mason publcly.
y do u think ur soc is so full of errors?
arnie365 2 years ago
freemasonry(dot)bcy(dot)ca(slash)anti(dash)masonry(slash)anti(dash)masonry03(dot)html
(near the bottom)
BleedBNG 2 years ago
that site also claims that freemasonry is not a religion and has nothing 2 do with lucifer.anyone who knows anything about masonry will tell u that they r the BUILDERS(of solomons temple) that reject the STONE(Jesus) and r satan worshippers
tell me bleed,how did c t russell know secret grips(handshakes) that ONLY members know? y does the pyramide have the at his grave watchtower and tract society on it? and who built it later on,was it the wts.
y do u share masonic beliefs?
arnie365 2 years ago
(of COURSE! :P...to your first sentence)
They have a list under "Religion" of those documented to be Freemasons.
freemasonry(dot)bcy(dot)ca(slash)textfiles(slash)famous(dot)html
J.Smith, B.Young, and N.V.Peale are there. Why not just add Russell if he were documented?
Maybe someone just told him the handshake? I Googled it and got some passwords too. Anyways, the pyramid was put there by one of the splinter groups (not the WTS) a few years later after he died.
BleedBNG 2 years ago
Maybe someone just told him the handshake?
firstly,there was NO internet those days,secondly freemason take a DEATH oath if they reveal secrets of freemasonry.there is only one way he could have known about the grips. HE WAS A MASSON!
Anyways, the pyramid was put there by one of the splinter groups (not the WTS) a few years later after he died.
THIS IS A LIE COS ON THE PYRAMIDE THE WATCHTOWER AND TRACT SOCIETY IS IMPRINTED AND CT RUSSELL WAS A BIG PROPREGATOR OF THE PYRAMIDE 2 B CON..
arnie365 2 years ago
Comment removed
arnie365 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
ur 1914 date was derived from pyramidology.there is NOOOO proof ,historicaly or biblicaly that 1914 is a true date.
i know jw`s who r freemasons
arnie365 2 years ago
Then blow the whistle they'd be disfellowshipped in a heartbeat. the 1914 date comes from the Bible, get a JW publication and compare. There's a chronology listed in scripture that ended in 1914 when WWI started. Historians agree the world was never the same after this.There are no other chronologies in the Bible that go past 1914. Arnie, before making statements about where JW got the info, you may want to check and see what scriptures we say we got it from. Otherwise you're just talking...
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Hi Jedi.... literally THOUSANDS of ancient records that include irrefutable astrological data prove beyond the shadow of any doubt that 607 is absolutely the WRONG date.
Put down the Watchtowers and read what archeologist.... Christian, secular and Jewish say about 607.
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
The wrong date for what? And why would I consult astrology? Here's what I get out of my study of the Bible 14 years ago with JW's... we are living in the last days. There appears to be a chronology that bears this out coupled with prophecy. But for me, I just look around. I could care less about the numbers and if 607 was wrong then guess what? it was 608, or 605? So? Historians all agree that around 1914-1917 the world dramatically changed. I see what I see. Last days or not, I still love God.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
!914 is based on the year 607 for the destruction of the temple. If the temple did not fall in 607 (which it did not) then 1914 is an unbiblical date.
And its not astrology. Ancient people recorded full moons... eclipses and the like and dated them by the year of the kings rule. So we can figure out when these events happened by the astrological data...
And yes the world changed then.... they also say the world dramatically changed with the computer, the car, ww2, the nuclear age
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
Follow along. There IS a date, what is it? Then go back and read the rest of my message. Thanks.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Every historian out there will tell you that WWI was one of the most dramatic shifts in human history. Entire books are written on this subject, and it's a pretty popular topic with the most respected historians. Not one or two, or five. It's a big deal topic. The latest commentator on it is Alan Greenspan LOL, if you dig that kind of thing. I'm not saying he's any great historian, though. It's an interesting topic and surely mankind is always in a state of flux.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Every historian out there will tell you that WWI was one of the most dramatic shifts in human history
thats exactly y jw`s shifted their false invisable presence of jesus from 1874 to 1914.they could decieve more ppl in2 believing them.
arnie365 2 years ago
They didn't do that after the fact.You don't even make sense. Not only is that in the older publications before 1914, but it was published in newspapers after that the ISBA(notJW) looked to that year as fulfillment of a Bible Prophecy. If secular dates are correct, then 1937 is the End of the Gentile Times. It doesn't matter. There's not suddenly a trinity, or eternal torment or no preaching to be done, no ransom (which the trinity nullifies, he was never human, he was never dead= no sacrifice)
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Please share with me the date the temple fell. Thanks. You do agree there is a Chronology there, no? That's in the Bible, not a JW made up thing, so surely that's something you're aware of. End of the Gentile times. Right? When is it. Thanks.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
the end of the gentile times came in 1948 when isreal was declared an indipendant state .that is when the rule of all the gentiles i.e romans,arabs,british ended.NOT 1914!!!
tell me jedi, how cn jw`s say 539 bce is a sure date bt 587bc is`nt. was 539 printed on the nebudonis chronical or was it derived the same way as 587 bc date?
go check the chronology of the babilonian kings and u`ll c that 20 yrs r missing if u use ur false 607 date.
arnie365 2 years ago
i personally know jw`s who r freemasons and they r very high ranking elders.
arnie365 2 years ago
Any JW that was a freemason would be disfellowshipped. That's freaky stuff. That's why I think you're lying. So that means you're a freemason, because they don't disclose who they are. So if 607 is wrong, it's right around there, tell me the date. That chronology is in the Bible, JW's didn't make it up, so there's a date somewhere. As far as fleshly Israel goes, "Look your house is abandoned to you" If you're an Iluminati watcher, don't you believe the Bible is evil and controlled by reptiles?
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
we don't have "high ranking" elders, just elders. and like I said, if you provide the congregation with that info they will be disfellowshipped, and there is a judiciary committee, but there's not even a case to hear, if they're in that, they're out faster than they can pack their book bags, also they would be labeled as apostates and not viewed as some other DF'd, like "gee, I hope they come back." we're all hopes, these people, Nope. Willful involvement in freemasonry currently? Wow Incredible
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
so circuitoverseers r not high ranking elders? as old russell said "WE(wts) are MASONS" and "I AM A FREE AND ACCEPTED MASON"
now pls tell me y they would disfellow ppl who r masons like themselves?
ur unbiblical doctrine of theocratic war strategy is shared by ur bretheren the masons, so u would never admit 2 any envolvement cos"I`M NOT ENTITELED 2 THAT INFORMATION" right?
arnie365 2 years ago
You have some delusions that need to be cleared up, but you're going to have to do that yourself. No circuit overseer is a freemason. I have told you what to do in the case where you believe otherwise. What you do is up to you. If this is so evil, surely you would want to expose that. Or maybe you just like to babble incoherently on the internet? We don't believe in the immortal soul doctrine. If there are circuit overseers that do, (lol) they are surrounded by people that don't. Take care now.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
u guys r experts at double talk u even have THEOCRATIC WAR STRATEGY which goes directly against the law of God which says don`t lie.
c t russell personally declare jw`s freemasons.
u do u think both jw`s and masons claim Jesus body was taken (jw`s by jehovah and masons by his deciples)
u both waite 4 more light
u both consider Jesus a GRANDMASTER.
U BOTH DENY THE DEITY OF JESUS.
OH AND BY THE WAY I KNOW ABOUT UR JEHOVAH/ JOVE/ ZEUS CONECTION.
that is y u don`t worship Jesus
arnie365 2 years ago
I just heard some other nut online telling people that JESUS name comes from Zeus, which is a lot closer, btw. And so they're worshipping Zeus, you two should get together and go bowling.The names are taken from Hebrew, but it doesn't matter anyway. I don't know what you mean about the war strategy, we've never been told to lie. Look, if all this characterization makes you feel good, then that's your business, but none of it is really true, so whatever. These are things you tell yourself.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Two groups always have comparisons and contrasting points. I guarentee I can find similarities between your denomination and the KKK. That doesn't make you the same.
Feel free to push the mason issue... if your best argument is that "One dude had bad associations 100 years ago" ... I think we're doing pretty good.
We've already dealt with that point... it's nice to see you don't have any stronger ones ;)
dasgregorian 2 years ago
Yes, 100 years ago, Russel agreed with free masonry. He also still celebrated Christmas, and did a number of things we don't do now. Over a few decades, we got rid of a lot of teachings we didn't find to be in harmony with the bible. Because one founder was also a free mason doesn't mean it's still part of our religion. Any more than "All catholics have swords" because peter (the first pope) cut that guy's ear off when they arrested Jesus.
dasgregorian 2 years ago
dasgre
there is an outer and an inner version of ur org.on the outside it appears u have dropped it bt the initiates,the masons,still practice it.
tell me if the wts was founded by anton le vay (a mason and founder of the church of satan) and the wts changed it`s views on what he taught. wud u b a jw?
and do u think it`s just a coincidence that many new religions where founder by masons? i.e jehovah`s witnesses, mormons,scientology,kkk,christian science,thelema,hotd, etc,etc.
arnie365 2 years ago
All mankind is sinful. To judge a person's message by "who's delivering it" is a basic logical fallacy.
If the pope lied to me, it would be a lie. If a crack-head wiccan abortion doctor told the truth, it would be the truth.
I care about WHAT is said.
dasgregorian 2 years ago
u guys have a lot of secrets.for example ur assosiation 2 the U.N (which the wts demonises) from 1992 - 2001.
the initiates believe there OWN truth and ur theocratic war stategy justifies them lying to the uninitiated cos THEY R NOT INTITALED 2 IT,right!
arnie365 2 years ago
Oh nooooOz! A watchtower half a century ago used the word "war strategy" in reference to spreading the message of the bible as if people's lives depend on it... which they do.
... that must make us terrorists.
I dig your logic.
I've been a witness for over 20 years, and have moved around between dozens of congregations... we don't "lie to the uninitiated."
Also... not to be a grammar nazi... but at least abbreviate "because" properly. "Cuz" is OK. "Cos?" why?
dasgregorian 2 years ago
u r a liar
ur own literature condems u as a deciever this is y the wts is from the father of lies.
God's Word commands: "Speak truth each of you wish his neighbor." (Eph. 4:25). This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive (The Watchtower Je 1, 1960:351-352).
2 b cont...
arnie365 2 years ago
Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others.... Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary; it does much good (p. 284-285).2 b cont.
arnie365 2 years ago
"saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person" (Franz, Vol. 2, 1988:244). They then add:
While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.
THIS TEACHING IS NOT FROM YHWH A HOLY GOD BT FROM THE FATHER OF LIES ,SATAN!!!
arnie365 2 years ago
He had stated that some very good friends of his were Freemasons. The handshake is not one of the "death oaths" if in fact he ever did use it.
I'm sorry, I meant the WTBTS after Rutherford took over. Russell started the WTBTS in 1896 with WH Conley as President.
The pyramid was erected in 1919 (3 years after his death) by one of the splinter groups.
BleedBNG 2 years ago
. Russell started the WTBTS in 1896 with WH Conley as President. that`s a lie!!
The pyramid was erected in 1919 (3 years after his death) by one of the splinter groups.
WHERE IS THE PROOF AND Y IS WTBTS ON IT?
arnie365 2 years ago
oh and one more thing RUSSELL is one of the top 13 iluminati blood lines
arnie365 2 years ago
Hi arnie, if you look at Illuminati teachings, they differ from the Bible quite a bit. The Bible actually does not teach the immortal soul doctrine or that God is three headed, babylonian. Russel had the Bible study group that decades later took the name JW's only after stripping away some false worldly doctrine that would be incompatible with use of the Holy name, prior to this. Only some of the beliefs would be connected with Russell and the 7th D.A. You want to compare current understandings.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago