@goldyuk pros hit semi-open stance, the slide you showed was of a return forehand. Look up my coach Elson Longo's channel @ELSONLONGOJUNIOR the itf contract him to give courses around south america concerning technique. Any tennis coach can learn quite a lot from him and his books.
How does that work exactly?? This is exactly the kind of thinking that KEEPS players a generation behind!! How do you think players progress over the years?? They grow up following the icons of day and take on and then move on.
Anyone who mimics the pros will be a generation behind. Teach the kids the basics ( closed/neutral stance) and their games will be adaptable to changes in techniques & playing styles.
@Li4oaf HAHAHAH, i taught myself tennis, then later went to a pro tennis coach, in lakeland academy, and i they told me that my forehand had the best from since i always hit in semi-and open stance
@Li4oaf Why waste time with ineffective teaching? Why would teaching the wrong basics help kids 'be adaptable to changes in techniques & playing styles.'? If they have to change something then they have been taught wrongly in the first place. The techniques used by the top pros all have similar common features - students learning the game deserve to be shown these basic key concepts from the very start. Whatever they do, they will have to learn the form of the stroke and its associated timing.
@dura1mater Would you pay good money for a painter & decorator that does a sloppy job? A mechanic that rips you off for poor workmanship on your car? Same goes for bad tennis coaches - they charge high prices for faulty and lazy teaching .. it's one of the biggest cons going.
Open stance is far better IF you can play like that! Closed stance is often easiest for starter/beginner adults who are not really harbouring ambitions to be the next Roger Federer but rather to be able to rally. Young players should definitely develop into open/semi-open on fh but they can move round gradually - rather they can rally first then change then force them to open stance and them not be able to play.
Open stance is far better IF you can play like that! Closed stance is often easiest for starter/beginner adults who are not really harbouring ambitions to be the next Roger Federer but rather to be able to rally. Young players should definitely develop into open/semi-open on fh but they can move round gradually - rather they can rally first then change then force them to open stance and them not be able to play.
@iclejames Wrong concept! When throwing and catching a ball two people naturally face each other and don't get into closed or neutral stances with their feet. They naturally learn to turn their shoulders. Beginners should not be playing rallies from closed stance positions - it looks ridiculous and doesn't work. Why change? Learn properly from the start and then you don't have to change and learn something different all over again.
If you think this guy is talkin dribble n boring u r very much mistaken, open stance is the most common stance used in tennis, closed stance is dead if you are being taught this your coach is a dinosaur, What he didnt mention is even though pros hit mostly with open stance they actully rotate the top half of their body to a closed position identicle to a closed stance, by doing this they are able to uncoil and recover quicker, neutral stance should be taught first once accompished move to open
@nickslickington How can the top half of the body be rotated to a closed stance position? There's no such thing - it's called a unit turn, not closed stance. As the weight transfers to the outer foot the shoulders and racquet arm move back together - there is no closing of anything. The term 'closing' is never used for the shoulders - the racquet face is referred to as being either open or closed. Leave the feet alone - players should focus on finding the ball first and develop natural footwork
"because pros do it" is not a valid reason. Teaching the close stance will help give the student feel the drive of the shot better. TOO many people TRY to emulate the pros with western grips and windshield wiper motion, and they don't hit through the ball. Open stance or close stance, there are more important things such as teaching shot selection, hitting out in front, and actualy driving the ball instead of slapping the side of it.
@TeppTennis You're obviously confused about the issue from the teaching perspective. If the pros do it, then the reason for them playing a particular shot in a given situation has sound technique which has been developed through practise and also their experience from playing at a high level. This is the VERY reason that we do want to copy them and learn from them. Some coaches don't have the confidence or are simply too lazy to teach and explain the correct principles ...
@TeppTennis .. - lazy coaches opt for 'beginner' stances and contrived strokes ie. only focusing on the 'over-the-shoulder' follow-through from a sideways stance which really looks stupid especially when they start feeding balls by hand and the student (often ladies) really look even more like a beginner. They are not developing the shoulder turn, or hip turn or any basics in setting up the racquet correctly. They look for every ball by getting the feet sideways in a normal rally.
Where do you see this? Majority of the coaches in California teach Neutral stance.... I can't imagine a coach making the forehand limited to only a closed stance....
The coaches you refer to probably read some 30 year old book and treats that like some manuscript.
My point is this - if someone only teaches this as a closed or even neutral shot, it is wrong. I think you need all but the most natural and therefore my starting point is open/semi open.
Do you have any reasoning behind this or is it just your one sided opinion? As some people say, open stance is used by lot of western grip people, and it is used when there isn't enough time for a neutral stance. For your information, neutral stance get much more rotation because you get rotation before the hit unlike open stance, you get rotation after the shot which has no significant effect on the traveling ball. Who are you and what makes you think you are correct?
I think many ppl here is misunderstanding. Open stance is when a line between your right and left foot is parallel to the baseline. Neutral stance is when the same line is perpendicular to the baseline. And closed stance is when your left foot is across your right foot for a righty. Open and neutral is oftenly used by pros and closed is mostly avoided!
i feel you are giving too much of a one-sided analysis when it comes to open-stance. open stance is used by western-gripped players 98% of the time (just to be safe) but just because its possible to use open stance with regularity doesn't necessarily mean closed-stance is wrong. yea you got nadal and gonzo, but i'm 99.9% i see federer and murray use closed-stance quite as often as any player. like you said, watch the pros.
Alright look I'm tired of getting stupid comment things from this video, I use a open stance for all the reason you said in this video but I'm trying to say that the closed stance isn't as bad as you say.
You are missing the point, of course you can use a closed stance to hit a short ball (you can also use an open stance on some of them - right foot forward, right handers), I am saying I see far too many coaches teaching the closed stance to people even when they are feeding them balls of a good length.
Reason most pros use open lyk Gonzalez/Monfils is bcoz they r mostly baseliners & few lyk Ancic/Fed who come in a lot (by comparison) use both close & open. All tennis strokes are about transferring body weight in2 the shot & the fundamentals of close stance promote this better than open which also requires better physique."stereo vision" lol what a joke..@ contact point chin must stay level & head turned to face/watch the ball bcoz of shoulder turn needed in close! Pliz do homework b4 postin
Pliz don mislead ppl the vid discusses pros & cons of open vs closed stance & none hav anythin 2 do withcoaches ability to teach! Both r relevant & should be used interchangeably Close is better bcoz it allows for more core rotation n quicka recovery, eliminates the extra swing around step of the back foot when recoverin/runnin 2 the nxt shot. Close is superior when movin 4ward/attacking the net as moment @ follow thru carries u 4ward as opposed 2 sideways seen in the vid What r yo credentials?
When teaching players that are relative beginners to intermediates with alot of work to do on fundamentals, it is much better to begin with close stance concepts of stepping toward the target with shoulder turn, hitting through the ball and coming forward. Besides, every good player hits closed stance shots at times the way it is, even though most are semi open, or open
If he/she is telling you you MUST do something then that is wrong especially when it is something like the open stance you & you say it feels more natural (which it will).
They will only limit your progress!!
Sign up to my page and get some tips you can use!!
Bit late with my reply but no way should you be trying to use too much closed stance with a grip like yours - they are not a good match. Any coach that is trying to do that worries me!!
Both styles are good if they are used in the right situations.
A more closed stance is an easier more controlled way to hit a good ball. It allows you to bring your weight foward into the ball much easier. I use it whenever I can step into a ball and have enough time. A more open stance is a good option when stretched wide for a ball or when in a defensive position. Feels easier to recover with it.
This is my first impression with both of the stances (still fairly new to the game).
The closed stance does affect your ability to recover from the shot after hitting a singlebackhand or slice, but you can counter this by turning the opposite direction during recovery - i.e. for right handers, they can turn left after hitting the backhand rather than turning right to face the court.
For singlehanded backhands (& slices), it is better to hit from a closed stance because it allows the player to turn his shoulder away from the ball and this allows him to create more shoulder rotation on single backhanders...
If he hits with an open stance, the player will have a tendency to use less shoulder rotation.
hahah love the title of this video! It got me chuckling.
But i'll like to add to this little debate.
I think Open stance is the way to go only when you're hitting the forehand.
For the backhand, the open stance is very good only if you're using a double handed backhand...because as we all know, the two hander is actually a left handed forehand.
Every junior i coach hits with an open stance becaue that is the way to teach a high perfotmance player, althogh i might not teach an open stance forhand to someone who was a recreational player, especially if they are using a contenental grip. i thought the video was well done, alot more so than 80 percent of the people who upload coaching videos online
a longer period of time to be heading towards the ball and desired direction. i know that is only one argument but keep in mind the three things that influence direction, contact point, horizontal angle of the racquet at contact, angle of refections, and the direction of your body (degree of open stance and degree of closed stance)Having chimed in on my two cents
if you are hitting with a closed stance generally (and i know this is a generalization) you are not going to be creating as much racquet head speed meaning your not swinging as hard at the ball which could be why some people might feel there are have more control. Where as with an open stance you can rotate both the upper and lower body far more creating a longer hitting zone and giving the racquet
First off love the debate, and loved reading it, i would like to chime in on the control aspect of the open stance. Control is based upon the hitting zone, the longer you can have your strings and racquet going to you disired direction the more likely hood the ball will go there, are we in agreeance so far? although it may seem that you have more control with a closed stance it is entirely untrue,
no not agree to disagree! the closed stance is much better than this guy likes to admit. I mean, if you want to stand behind the baseline and smack the ball as hard as u want, hoping it goes in, then sure, maybe u want to use the open stance. but for a more well-rounded game, not to mention smarter, then the closed stance is the ONLY way to go.
Yes you are right about the Rotation and Power, but I have to pull you up again on the control.
Let me put it this way.
Control is more about hitting enough balls to develop the racket head control than stance and what you will find is that the open stance will give you more options.
I am not saying that you should NEVER play the ball with a closed stance, but far too many people are shown to play the ball with a closed stance when an open stance apart from being superior is just...........easier!
In terms of your comment on my assumption that the ball is coming to a particular spot every time again you miss the point!
Footwork!!
If you are failing to see my points then you have obviously been led up the wrong path in your tennis career.
@goldyuk pros hit semi-open stance, the slide you showed was of a return forehand. Look up my coach Elson Longo's channel @ELSONLONGOJUNIOR the itf contract him to give courses around south america concerning technique. Any tennis coach can learn quite a lot from him and his books.
ProfessorFatts 2 months ago
How does that work exactly?? This is exactly the kind of thinking that KEEPS players a generation behind!! How do you think players progress over the years?? They grow up following the icons of day and take on and then move on.
Surely this is obvious??
goldyuk 1 year ago
Anyone who mimics the pros will be a generation behind. Teach the kids the basics ( closed/neutral stance) and their games will be adaptable to changes in techniques & playing styles.
Li4oaf 1 year ago
@Li4oaf HAHAHAH, i taught myself tennis, then later went to a pro tennis coach, in lakeland academy, and i they told me that my forehand had the best from since i always hit in semi-and open stance
Digimonking101 11 months ago
@Li4oaf Why waste time with ineffective teaching? Why would teaching the wrong basics help kids 'be adaptable to changes in techniques & playing styles.'? If they have to change something then they have been taught wrongly in the first place. The techniques used by the top pros all have similar common features - students learning the game deserve to be shown these basic key concepts from the very start. Whatever they do, they will have to learn the form of the stroke and its associated timing.
Tony07UK 9 months ago
some pros do closed stance only, like berdych (its a choice)
popachris101 1 year ago
Comment removed
RogierBeekman 1 year ago
Stop tring to hurt people's business.
dura1mater 1 year ago
@dura1mater Would you pay good money for a painter & decorator that does a sloppy job? A mechanic that rips you off for poor workmanship on your car? Same goes for bad tennis coaches - they charge high prices for faulty and lazy teaching .. it's one of the biggest cons going.
Tony07UK 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Open stance is far better IF you can play like that! Closed stance is often easiest for starter/beginner adults who are not really harbouring ambitions to be the next Roger Federer but rather to be able to rally. Young players should definitely develop into open/semi-open on fh but they can move round gradually - rather they can rally first then change then force them to open stance and them not be able to play.
iclejames 1 year ago
Open stance is far better IF you can play like that! Closed stance is often easiest for starter/beginner adults who are not really harbouring ambitions to be the next Roger Federer but rather to be able to rally. Young players should definitely develop into open/semi-open on fh but they can move round gradually - rather they can rally first then change then force them to open stance and them not be able to play.
iclejames 1 year ago
@iclejames Wrong concept! When throwing and catching a ball two people naturally face each other and don't get into closed or neutral stances with their feet. They naturally learn to turn their shoulders. Beginners should not be playing rallies from closed stance positions - it looks ridiculous and doesn't work. Why change? Learn properly from the start and then you don't have to change and learn something different all over again.
Tony07UK 9 months ago
If you think this guy is talkin dribble n boring u r very much mistaken, open stance is the most common stance used in tennis, closed stance is dead if you are being taught this your coach is a dinosaur, What he didnt mention is even though pros hit mostly with open stance they actully rotate the top half of their body to a closed position identicle to a closed stance, by doing this they are able to uncoil and recover quicker, neutral stance should be taught first once accompished move to open
nickslickington 1 year ago
@nickslickington How can the top half of the body be rotated to a closed stance position? There's no such thing - it's called a unit turn, not closed stance. As the weight transfers to the outer foot the shoulders and racquet arm move back together - there is no closing of anything. The term 'closing' is never used for the shoulders - the racquet face is referred to as being either open or closed. Leave the feet alone - players should focus on finding the ball first and develop natural footwork
Tony07UK 9 months ago
@Tony07UK Thanks for the advice LMAO I'll tell that to my students next time they go to State Championships, how are your students preforming?
nickslickington 8 months ago
@nickslickington ... are they only at State Championships? There's your answer!
Tony07UK 8 months ago
this is gay and that kid sucks
Khanhachan409 1 year ago
god you are boring
dannypizarro 1 year ago
"because pros do it" is not a valid reason. Teaching the close stance will help give the student feel the drive of the shot better. TOO many people TRY to emulate the pros with western grips and windshield wiper motion, and they don't hit through the ball. Open stance or close stance, there are more important things such as teaching shot selection, hitting out in front, and actualy driving the ball instead of slapping the side of it.
TeppTennis 1 year ago 6
@TeppTennis You're obviously confused about the issue from the teaching perspective. If the pros do it, then the reason for them playing a particular shot in a given situation has sound technique which has been developed through practise and also their experience from playing at a high level. This is the VERY reason that we do want to copy them and learn from them. Some coaches don't have the confidence or are simply too lazy to teach and explain the correct principles ...
Tony07UK 8 months ago
@TeppTennis .. - lazy coaches opt for 'beginner' stances and contrived strokes ie. only focusing on the 'over-the-shoulder' follow-through from a sideways stance which really looks stupid especially when they start feeding balls by hand and the student (often ladies) really look even more like a beginner. They are not developing the shoulder turn, or hip turn or any basics in setting up the racquet correctly. They look for every ball by getting the feet sideways in a normal rally.
Tony07UK 8 months ago
I don't think any of you play tennis.. If you do you must suck to the max.. Losers
brenamiel 2 years ago
The pros usually hit open stance when they don't have enough time to prepare.....
Neutral stance is the fundamental stance they use.
Only time I've seen the need for a closed stance is to rip a ball inside out.
hillsong1004 2 years ago
in my opinion, u NEED a closed stance on the approach shot becuz with the open stance on the approach...THE SHOTS R LESS EFFECTIVE!
hoyoungone 2 years ago
At times yes of course.
My point is that I see so many coaches teaching the forehand ONLY as a closed stance shot!!
goldyuk 2 years ago
yeah i had a coach that wanted me to do that so i quit him :P
hoyoungone 2 years ago
Good Job!!
goldyuk 2 years ago
Where do you see this? Majority of the coaches in California teach Neutral stance.... I can't imagine a coach making the forehand limited to only a closed stance....
The coaches you refer to probably read some 30 year old book and treats that like some manuscript.
hillsong1004 2 years ago 2
My point is this - if someone only teaches this as a closed or even neutral shot, it is wrong. I think you need all but the most natural and therefore my starting point is open/semi open.
goldyuk 2 years ago
Do you have any reasoning behind this or is it just your one sided opinion? As some people say, open stance is used by lot of western grip people, and it is used when there isn't enough time for a neutral stance. For your information, neutral stance get much more rotation because you get rotation before the hit unlike open stance, you get rotation after the shot which has no significant effect on the traveling ball. Who are you and what makes you think you are correct?
summerbordom 2 years ago
I think many ppl here is misunderstanding. Open stance is when a line between your right and left foot is parallel to the baseline. Neutral stance is when the same line is perpendicular to the baseline. And closed stance is when your left foot is across your right foot for a righty. Open and neutral is oftenly used by pros and closed is mostly avoided!
kaszap 2 years ago
Thank you buddy!! at last someone that really understands it and says it like it is!!
goldyuk 2 years ago
You can recover from a closed stance forehand by swinging your back foot around after contact and bouncing off that leg.
socoolits2cool 2 years ago
ok this guy is really pissing me off
i feel you are giving too much of a one-sided analysis when it comes to open-stance. open stance is used by western-gripped players 98% of the time (just to be safe) but just because its possible to use open stance with regularity doesn't necessarily mean closed-stance is wrong. yea you got nadal and gonzo, but i'm 99.9% i see federer and murray use closed-stance quite as often as any player. like you said, watch the pros.
aznflacco52 2 years ago
nevertheless, i understand that each coach places different emphasizes in different areas and i respect that.
aznflacco52 2 years ago
I do watch the pros and the open/semi is without doubt the preferred option!
goldyuk 2 years ago
The video really isn't that great, try hitting a short ball in front of you a good 5 feet in a closed stance. :]
qplr 2 years ago
I am not saying hit every ball open stance but even some of the balls that are short can be hit open - just watch Rafa!!
goldyuk 2 years ago
Rafa uses a western grip it's hard to hit any ball from a closed stance with a western grip.......
qplr 2 years ago
Exactly!! If the closed stance was that great you would not have most of the players opting for semi western and open stance options!!!
goldyuk 2 years ago
Alright look I'm tired of getting stupid comment things from this video, I use a open stance for all the reason you said in this video but I'm trying to say that the closed stance isn't as bad as you say.
qplr 2 years ago
now now calm down!!
goldyuk 2 years ago
You are missing the point, of course you can use a closed stance to hit a short ball (you can also use an open stance on some of them - right foot forward, right handers), I am saying I see far too many coaches teaching the closed stance to people even when they are feeding them balls of a good length.
goldyuk 2 years ago
Reason most pros use open lyk Gonzalez/Monfils is bcoz they r mostly baseliners & few lyk Ancic/Fed who come in a lot (by comparison) use both close & open. All tennis strokes are about transferring body weight in2 the shot & the fundamentals of close stance promote this better than open which also requires better physique."stereo vision" lol what a joke..@ contact point chin must stay level & head turned to face/watch the ball bcoz of shoulder turn needed in close! Pliz do homework b4 postin
dmacontop 2 years ago
Pliz don mislead ppl the vid discusses pros & cons of open vs closed stance & none hav anythin 2 do withcoaches ability to teach! Both r relevant & should be used interchangeably Close is better bcoz it allows for more core rotation n quicka recovery, eliminates the extra swing around step of the back foot when recoverin/runnin 2 the nxt shot. Close is superior when movin 4ward/attacking the net as moment @ follow thru carries u 4ward as opposed 2 sideways seen in the vid What r yo credentials?
dmacontop 2 years ago
When teaching players that are relative beginners to intermediates with alot of work to do on fundamentals, it is much better to begin with close stance concepts of stepping toward the target with shoulder turn, hitting through the ball and coming forward. Besides, every good player hits closed stance shots at times the way it is, even though most are semi open, or open
TonLars 2 years ago
hello i am 15 years old i use western grip an i am doing open stance bud my coach still is saying that i need to use the closed stance.
and for me is the open stance way easier and more natural.
what shud i keep doing can you guys give me a tip?
thanks
rabidi 3 years ago
What do I say in the video title???
Sack your coach!!
If he/she is telling you you MUST do something then that is wrong especially when it is something like the open stance you & you say it feels more natural (which it will).
They will only limit your progress!!
Sign up to my page and get some tips you can use!!
goldyuk 3 years ago
Bit late with my reply but no way should you be trying to use too much closed stance with a grip like yours - they are not a good match. Any coach that is trying to do that worries me!!
goldyuk 2 years ago
Both styles are good if they are used in the right situations.
A more closed stance is an easier more controlled way to hit a good ball. It allows you to bring your weight foward into the ball much easier. I use it whenever I can step into a ball and have enough time. A more open stance is a good option when stretched wide for a ball or when in a defensive position. Feels easier to recover with it.
This is my first impression with both of the stances (still fairly new to the game).
AltairXC 3 years ago
The closed stance does affect your ability to recover from the shot after hitting a singlebackhand or slice, but you can counter this by turning the opposite direction during recovery - i.e. for right handers, they can turn left after hitting the backhand rather than turning right to face the court.
willocrew 3 years ago
For singlehanded backhands (& slices), it is better to hit from a closed stance because it allows the player to turn his shoulder away from the ball and this allows him to create more shoulder rotation on single backhanders...
If he hits with an open stance, the player will have a tendency to use less shoulder rotation.
willocrew 3 years ago
hahah love the title of this video! It got me chuckling.
But i'll like to add to this little debate.
I think Open stance is the way to go only when you're hitting the forehand.
For the backhand, the open stance is very good only if you're using a double handed backhand...because as we all know, the two hander is actually a left handed forehand.
willocrew 3 years ago
Thanks very much kewgardentennis u know what you are talking about!!
goldyuk 3 years ago
Every junior i coach hits with an open stance becaue that is the way to teach a high perfotmance player, althogh i might not teach an open stance forhand to someone who was a recreational player, especially if they are using a contenental grip. i thought the video was well done, alot more so than 80 percent of the people who upload coaching videos online
kewgardenstennis 3 years ago
a longer period of time to be heading towards the ball and desired direction. i know that is only one argument but keep in mind the three things that influence direction, contact point, horizontal angle of the racquet at contact, angle of refections, and the direction of your body (degree of open stance and degree of closed stance)Having chimed in on my two cents
kewgardenstennis 3 years ago
if you are hitting with a closed stance generally (and i know this is a generalization) you are not going to be creating as much racquet head speed meaning your not swinging as hard at the ball which could be why some people might feel there are have more control. Where as with an open stance you can rotate both the upper and lower body far more creating a longer hitting zone and giving the racquet
kewgardenstennis 3 years ago
First off love the debate, and loved reading it, i would like to chime in on the control aspect of the open stance. Control is based upon the hitting zone, the longer you can have your strings and racquet going to you disired direction the more likely hood the ball will go there, are we in agreeance so far? although it may seem that you have more control with a closed stance it is entirely untrue,
kewgardenstennis 3 years ago
no not agree to disagree! the closed stance is much better than this guy likes to admit. I mean, if you want to stand behind the baseline and smack the ball as hard as u want, hoping it goes in, then sure, maybe u want to use the open stance. but for a more well-rounded game, not to mention smarter, then the closed stance is the ONLY way to go.
sammyhenderson 3 years ago
No worries!
Yes you are right about the Rotation and Power, but I have to pull you up again on the control.
Let me put it this way.
Control is more about hitting enough balls to develop the racket head control than stance and what you will find is that the open stance will give you more options.
Give me options everyday of the week!
goldyuk 3 years ago
No I have not!!
I am not saying that you should NEVER play the ball with a closed stance, but far too many people are shown to play the ball with a closed stance when an open stance apart from being superior is just...........easier!
In terms of your comment on my assumption that the ball is coming to a particular spot every time again you miss the point!
Footwork!!
If you are failing to see my points then you have obviously been led up the wrong path in your tennis career.
goldyuk 3 years ago
Glad you see it!
goldyuk 3 years ago