Wu Style Tai Chi Chuan Freestyle Push Hands

[sickofdao]

those applications are not useful. if his opponent had been stronger he would have been lifted and thrown several times.

[stets83]

Ma dai, che cazzo di tecniche sono.... questo é sanda no tai ji

[LarryRickenbacker]

I'm convinced that anyone who studied/practiced Tai Chi as the martial art that it is (As opposed to the more common practice of using it as mostly excercise) could, in time, use it effectively for self defense.

[ANGELSGYMSINGH]

I like it that the Sifu has applied pushhands technique into a purely She Jing exhibition. His execution and interpretation of t'ui shou in this sense is an awesome example of Clinch situation takedown and grappling. It is obvious that the point of this free-style demonstration is to bring the opponent to the ground. The MMA applications of this exercise is awesome. His technique is much like the application of 20th Century Jiu Jitsu. His control is undisputed. Do you perfer this way?

[dhjmckenzie]

@ANGELSGYMSINGH -- these are obviously very good applications. However, the ability to perform them in a situation with a resisting opponent is another story all together.

[ANGELSGYMSINGH]

@dhjmckenzie Well it is a demonstration. The opponent seems to be resisting, that is why the techjnique result is so dynamic. My thinking is if a younger opponent who competes in MMA could master such techniques then his kungfu would be elevated. There are judoka like Karl Parisien who use such techniques in MMA competition at the professional level quite effectively. I'm gonna send you a great vid of perfecting this Sifu's technique in a more external manner.

[dhjmckenzie]

@ANGELSGYMSINGH -- these are obviously very good applications. However, the ability to perform them in a situation with a resisting opponent is another story all together.

[dhjmckenzie]

@ANGELSGYMSINGH -- The ability to apply these applications in a real situation with a resisting opponent is another story all together.

[LordBarron100]

@dhjmckenzie is that not all art forms

[100JamesX]

thats my great grandFather in the yellow shirt

[natefegan]

Thanks for sharing your fun and inspiring video! 

[BGZBadboy]

Sorry, but the "loose-noodle" push hands degenerating into brute-force wrestling, is anything but impressive..and yet, I see more and more of this when someone is pressed to demonstrate push hands skill in a so-called "freestyle" environment. Honestly, it's kinda sad.

[billysue2]

@BGZBadboy that would be because all full resistance wrestling is going to look the same .The techs you see in pushing hands cant be used in reality,its mostly about sensitivity with compliance.Its a waste of time

[Niccomawf]

I believe the point of this demo is more to demonstrate performance of technique in a freestyle arena rather than the demonstrator's actual skill level.

[Moparmal]

The video is titled -

Taijiquan Applications- analysis of combat usefulness

I cannot post a link to it. I should also say I do not know the instructor or pupils, however I practice the Wu form as taught by Cheng Tin-Hung.

[TheSenseofTouch]

The guy in the right picture had a pathetic full contact fight with a white crane practitioner in 1954.

Watch it here: watch?v=SZuJBsIWl_k

[Mr3dTube]

TheSenseofTouch: You should think twice before saying someone is pathetic in public. More to the point, the person in the video that you provide is definitely not the person in this video. Respect others, respect yourself.

[TheSenseofTouch]

Haha bullshit. That guy is exactly the same guy from the video.

[lucidmist]

The Sifu does have good body alignment and uses the Taiji principles. His opponent outweighs him quite abit!

[Rudez100]

I like it

[sylvester134]

beautiful

[wt333wt]

This is a really great posting! This is the art that needs desperately to be preserved.

[ScipioAmericanus]

Thank you for posting this.  So few people practice in such a lively way. The Taiji and shuai jiao are blended so effortlessly . . .

[madogblue]

Finally some real push hands, not the typical master and student who jumps pack with every push

[wkfung108]

Not bad for a guy his age. Now let's see him do as well against a guy who's as big, is NOT his student (and willing to "show respect"), fit, and is actually trying to throw him.

Oh -- and please, somebody tell that guy that combovers are just embarrassing.

[lucidmist]

That guy IS trying to throw the Sifu, but if you understood Taiji principles, you would know that an opponent's efforts will be negated if any force is being exerted.

I'm not saying the Sifu could take on a boxer whatsoever, but for the purposes of this video, he IS throwing a guy who is going at him for real.

[wkfung108]

I'm not saying the sifu's not good--he is. But I would have liked to see what happened if the partner had a little more malicious intent. It's one thing to go up against a friendly rational opponent, even if he's sincerely attacking--it's another to test yourself against a guy who is both willing to go all out to beat you and doesn't much like you, even if he understands that this is training and not a fight.

[lucidmist]

I know what you mean. But I guess they don't do hardcore sparring or even wrestling. Most push-hands demos don't go beyond what is shown here. That being said, you DO see some effort put in by his student here though, just not in the 'rushing-at-him' way.

But there is another Sifu called Chen Bing - his students are usually bigger than him, and they DO go at him.

[monkfg]

Tai Chi would also work then, BUT it's much harder to stay relaxed in that situation. Tai Chi works, the mental challenge makes it so hard.

[randyds5]

i agree

[xiaou2]

The harder and more intent you are with someone who is good at re-directing energies... the more dangerous, painful, and damaging it will be for you. Giving a man like this too much energy will more than likely end in a hospital visit. The better fighters, are more supple, fluid, and relaxed. They do not easily give up their rooting / energies (over-committal)... because they understand the danger of that power being used against them, multiplied.

[wkfung108]

Xiaou2: I agree with you. But if this is a demonstration, it's not enough for you to say it, the sifu must PROVE it. That means he has to win against someone besides a student who is obviously holding back out of respect.

If what you say is true, the sifu should have no problems with a Division I linebacker (American football) or an Olympic wrestler, right? Let's see someone who at least LOOKS like one of those examples in the demo.

[anhkhoinguyen]

@wkfung108

How often are any of you going to run into a division 1 line backer or olympic wreslter? and are olympic wreslters and football players regular joes? No there not, there like fighters n MAst they train and condition too. Can pacqiaos coach Freddie Roach win an olympic gold or a wreslting coach beat college wrestler? Probably not doesnt mean what they teach is useless, there just coaches same way Sifu Chan is a sifu, they've fought before but now there old. this a demo, simple as that

[wkfung108]

Sifu Chan is supposed to be one of the foremost practitioners of his art. A demo of his art (or his skills) should show that he can overcome a martial artist of equal skill from another style. Therefore, his demo should show how Chan would deal with a GOOD wrestler or boxer or athlete. Whatever his skills are, however good a teacher he might be, this demo DOES NOT ADEQUATELY SHOW IT because his partner is an incompetent slob of a guy. That's all I'm saying.

[anhkhoinguyen]

@wkfung108

Tony Chan fought Sanda Taiwan 1978-79

places 8th and 10th place out of 60 people

not to bad, won with takedowns and throws.

Go watch his fights its on his website and one is

on youtube where he fought and beat some black bagua dude and lost to a swai jiao guy. Thats enough to tell you if his throws work or not, and hes got alot of them off.

This is a demo, stop be ignorant and look up what a demo means, even at Gracie Barra where i train we do demo, so many online bangers these days

[wkfung108]

Tony Chan may indeed have accomplished what you say he did. The videos you mentioned of his fights would be a far better illustration of his art and skills than this video, which features him tossing around an incompetent tub of lard who couldn't even give my WIFE any trouble. Watching THIS demo, I can only say, "So what? I can beat the crap out of that guy, too." BTW, I doubt real guys from Gracie Barra bother giving demos at all. They'd rather train and compete to "demo" their skill.

[anhkhoinguyen]

@wkfung108 Watching THIS demo, I can only say, "So what? I can beat the crap out of that guy, too."

How idiotic, would it had matter if it was 200 pound weight lifter or professional MMA fighter? Its a DEMO and so no matter who was being thrown would have gone with the throw anyways. Thats why its called a DEMO....haha Think about that real hard grasshopper.

[wkfung108]

@anhkhoinguyen Would it matter if it was a 200 pound weight lifter or a professional MMA fighter?

YES.

"You claim that no matter who was being thrown would have gone with the throw anyways."

No. MMA fighters are the most pragmatic of all martial artists. They are always willing to be shown something effective. But they give you no respect unless you can do it on them AS THEY TRY TO STOP YOU.

This demo is useless because the sifu's partner is either incompetent or taking a dive.

[anhkhoinguyen]

@wkfung108 LEARN HOW TO READ!!!!!!!!!!

I said its a DEMO- and go look up what a demo means... it means it just a demostration not a real fight. therte just showing techniques. And i said since its a demo, even if its a MMA fighter he have to go along with it anyways bekuz in a demo there showing the technique not sparring...jesus christ learn how to learn and go look up what DEMOSTARTION means. lmao thanks for making your self look stupid it made my day lol lol

[wkfung108]

@anhkhoinguyen: Demonstration: "the act or circumstance of proving or being proved conclusively, as by reasoning or a show of evidence" or "something serving as proof or supporting evidence"

THEREFORE, if the student takes a dive, it's no longer a demonstration. It's a performance. And if I want a performance, I'd rather watch Jet Li.

You seem awfully defensive, and you can't seem to type, type or write properly. Perhaps you'd be better served learning the English language instead of Taiji.

[anhkhoinguyen]

@wkfung108 A demonstration IS a performance, otherwise why would it be called one? Look up demostration on youtube, in all combat arts they will all show up as one person performing a skill on another unresisting partner to convey a skill for learning. Then look up sparring and its when someones actual resisting or fighting back.

[wkfung108]

@anhkhoinguyen

Contrary to your opinion, just because it's on Youtube, it doesn't make it right. Youtube is NOT the dictionary. ANY clip that is labeled as a demonstration but shows skill performed on an unresisting opponent--is mislabeled and incorrect.

[anhkhoinguyen]

@wkfung108 of course im defensive im pissed off that I fucked your mother in her ass and she gave me herbies and aids. And im even more upset I gave birth to a bastard child from which he doesnt understand the different between a demostration of a technique and actual combat. But your mother and sister sure do give good head, a little more Chi and i'll nut all over her lol

[wkfung108]

@anhkhoinguyen

Ah, yes. Mom jokes. The last refuge of idiots who finally realize they've lost the argument beyond redemption.

Whoever you train with -- whether it's Tony Chan or someone else -- you certainly don't reflect very well on him.

Then again, it's clear that you've never trained at all.

[anhkhoinguyen]

@wkfung108 from webster dictionary

Demonstration- a visual presentation showing how something works; "the lecture was accompanied by dramatic demonstrations";

As you see demonstration is also showing how something works or showing how a technique is performed. Which is the what is being done here. Wile you keep arguing that its fixed or fake when the whole argument is that its JUST A DEMO in the first place! unfortunately you have a problem with English as well lol

[wkfung108]

@anhkhoinguyen

I guess if you want a demonstration of "how something works" against a lardass taking a dive, then this is indeed a very very good demonstration. Next time I want to learn how some guy would beat up someone who's already agreed to be beat up, I'll know who to ask.

But first, I'd rather see a demonstration in which a martial artist DEMONSTRATES how to deal with a fighter who is actually competent and aggressive.

[anhkhoinguyen]

@wkfung108 Im not American or a native English speaker, being able to write enough to conversant in multiple languages makes me alot more intelligence then you hahaha

[wkfung108]

@anhkhoinguyen

If you're not a native English speaker, then maybe you shouldn't be arguing about the English language with someone who is, and someone who therefore knows what he's talking about.

I do, however, speak Chinese, Japanese, Italian and French and will willingly debate you in any of those languages.

[anhkhoinguyen]

@wkfung108 another difinition American dictionary

Demonstration-The act of demonstrating; showing or explaining something; An event at which something will be demonstrated;

You can thank you mom for that one, got to go your sisters also calling, they seem to love my french so much I think i'llmake you another brother or sister soon my Son. =]

[anhkhoinguyen]

@wkfung108 This demo is useless because the sifu's partner is either incompetent or taking a dive. "

It looks like he was taking a dive, BEKUZ HE IS!!!! its a demostration...the whole point of a demo is to show how the technique is done for students to see the mechanics...its not a real fight or sparring. how many times do i have to say it...did you never finished school or do you only read what you want to hear?

[wkfung108]

No, the whole point of a demonstration is merely to show that the technique works.

I expect the teacher to personally teach me in order to show me HOW it should be done or why it works.

A demonstration should differ from a real fight ONLY in that the teacher knows what attack is coming. The attack should still be real to the point that it would do damage if left unchecked.

[TheSenseofTouch]

Too bad the fat guy doesn't show any knowledge in throws/takedowns.

[Moparmal]

Throws and take downs are not individual techniques in TaiChi - they come out where your opponent triueds to apply force. This Sifu diplays the reality of this - knowing how to yield. The attempted "body slam" at 1.30 and how he absorbs the force and then simply straightens his extended leg to throw the opponent shows clearly why "throws and locks downs" is not a term that is relevant.

[TheSenseofTouch]

The leg extension bucks his legs up, same maneuver as some throws practiced in Judo. Saying that these aren't throws is like saying Tai Chi isn't wrestling, which it clearly is.

[TheSenseofTouch]

Oops, I meant takedowns, which include throws, sweeps, etc

[Moparmal]

We agree on the technique - however true Tai Chi teaches to interpret any grasp, any "hold", as an application of force to be yielded to. Hence the "throws", the "locks", come out of the "set", they are not premeditated holds to be "fashioned" as you struggle with your opponent, as they are with Judo and wrestling. In Tai Chi, the practitioner should never need to use a closed hand to apply a hold, or to "grapple" or manouvre the opponent. There is a great deal of BAD Tai Chi in the world.

[Moparmal]

I commend the following video at 4:37of two young men sparring as a sound example of a Tai Chi "throw". Note there is no "grapple". Also at 5.15 as an example of the open hand. The old man is lazy, with little waste rotation, and far too much weight spread between front and back foot. However we can assume this video is for descriptive purposes and he would work harder to rotate and transfer his weight under force should he need to!

[cintyli]

Amazing! Looks so easy and effortless but it takes years of practise.

[ayzakhar]

Very good!

[ae872001]

judo?????

[dhjmckenzie]

Um ... no, it's Tai Chi Ch'uan ... if anything, I the Japanese martial arts originated from China ...

[Jenfucius]

Wu style tai chi has alot of throws in it unlike the other styles of tai chi. Its sometimes known as wrestling style tai chi.

[imortalboxer]

摔跤

[oldtyger]

Very interesting use of taijiquan. I don't think I've ever seen too many taiji players go to the ground like this. Probably a good idea to broaden one's game a bit. As noted before, push hands is not the same as fighting. It is considered the core of taijiquan combat but is only the beginning.

[DaiBoxer]

Agree with your point about broad horizons, but i dont think they are taking their Taiji to the ground persay, as much the fact of there being much Shuaijiao in Wu Taiji application. And some of the SJ methods might take you to one knee or you may even fall down with them depending on positioning. Those leg blocks and leg hooks he was doing to not be thrown? Str8 Shuaijiao. Only my opinion.

[oldtyger]

I don't know enough Shuaijiao to comment on that part. But I do know there is supposedly quite a bit of it and qinna in Wu style taijiquan. Yeah, it's not grappling by any means but most demos you don't see guys being tossed onto the ground so much--mainly just pushes and pulls off their root.

[suyajessiejin]

it looks like no-gi grappling (the stand up phase)to me~ but i really doubt that it's any good.

Civilize me~

[drocsoulja843]

it is very good to use...hes using his opponents energy rather than his own to take him down and re-directing his energy

[WarriorBoy]

Excellent video, grounded in reality and obviously not a prearranged demonstration.

[simmyuk]

wouldnt punching him in the face be more effective?

[dhjmckenzie]

Yes, it might be more effective, if this was an actual "fight". It's a freestyle push hands demonstration.

[simmyuk]

its good to improve spirit perhaps then? not self defence?

[dhjmckenzie]

Push hands is a stepping stone to full sparring / combat.

[fallingleaveskungfu]

you could say it's similar to randori in Jiujitsu.  there's usually no striking in randori either, but still a cornerstone of many schools training.

[MaQingYi]

exactly it is simply a training tool for technique

[denzuko1]

@simmyuk I think it improves your awareness to how your body function while not much on spirituality.

[moonpieyes]

@simmyuk I'm no expert, but learning any system of martial arts trains how you think and react to the opponent/compliment given a set of possible moves. I only know because I'm really bad at it (coming up with good physical solutions to approaching challenges) and too undisciplined to practice.

So yes, it betters the spirit and is handy for defense, as well as, life in general. Capoeira also has the aim of out-thinking (get one over on) the person, rather than beating them.

[Doucetman]

@dhjmckenzie , Simmyuk must also understand that punching cannot solve any kind of situation. What if your drunken step uncle start to fight with some cousin of yours at some wedding party ? Would it be more effective to punch him in the face or just throw him gently and lock him ? Different situation, different answer ; nowadays hand to hand combat with knock out as a result is mostly in a sportive event rather than in the street where you generally want to run as soon as you can ; otherwise

[Doucetman]

otherwise you are in the military and CQC is all you need.

Beside a gun an a knife...

[taijihitman]

Punching someone in the face is very easy is it not? Having sensitivty and being able to redirect force without losing ones balance takes more skill. Once you can move a person where ever you want to, you can punch him as you like or you can move on to chin na (joint manipulation). None of these movement shown were executed using Fajin (explosive force) which would do way more damage than a punch to the head. :)

[FamilyQuan]

Watch serious boxers punch - and just imagine being on the receiving end. The worst thing any martial artist can do is assume that 'against a boxer I would do this... against bjj I'd do that...' and yet never try it in practice. Practice is very different to theory, and performing sophisticated skills whilst being seriously attacked is a whole other game. Cool vid though - a good direction for tuishou.

[taijihitman]

I totally agree with your comment. I started western boxing when i was 16 , muay thai at 19 and judo, jiujistu, akido etc in my 20's, strated doing taiji yang first then chen style last 5 years since then, i am 35 now been doing taiji solid for 9. I have worked in security and have been punched in the face a few times on the job. Still got lots to learn though , keep training :)

[elexlorien]

lol u noob. Against boxer there are many good techniqes

[FamilyQuan]

Obviously - those are exactly the techniques other boxers learn, or other serious fighters.

There are always techniques which 'could' work - the question is always, could you make them work? Maybe there is a wu taiji master capable of making his stuff work against a serious boxer... if so, it's not just his techniques, it's the way he has trained. Almost no taiji people train realistically. Is the fault in taiji? No - the fault is in them.

[tonglongkid]

EXACTLY

[anhkhoinguyen]

@FamilyQuan also boxers are really good with there hands kuz they dont have to worry about kicks,knees,takedowns and elbows.....fighting with rules is one thing but the fewer they go by the worst they look.....How many Boxers have won a MMA fight? a Kickboxing match? none....and in MMA we'll have kung fu(cung le) to Lyoto Machida in UFC win titles so have every other style BUT BOXING. so dont bring it up like its god.

[anhkhoinguyen]

@elexlorien boxers cant take leg kicks, and cant stop throws, since they only uses mostly hands its easy to counter, just have to watch one thing...there hands.. look at all the k-1 and muay thai videos, all the boxes get there leg destroyed in 1 round. lol

[ChiStriker]

@simmyuk if this is a serious question you need medical help

[twyztted]

awesome vid

[Khobraz]

useless lmao

[ACEMFG]

now that was real good!

this is not pre-arranged i can see it!

it appears this sifu's qi is turning to solid!

never seen it before!

great!

[HamburgerJung82]

not bad

[silokstudio]

spoken like a true Spartan..

especially good turning skills, while balancing.

it has good accelerations, body shifts and "Silat"

("lightning" Pencak Silat)

E

[JohnEpi1973]

Other than appearances , this is a very good video . Good - Informative Posting . Well done.

[DrTzeus]

really cool stuff thanks

[mixjourneyman]

Thanks Dave.

This is a great video.

[JianChuanTaiChi]

Not really pre-arranged since they actually go into a few attacks and defenses first.. The Sifu here seems to be teaching counter throws. Good Wu Stlye Demo!

[ashwix]

this is prearranged.

Shuaijiao throws too!

Cool post :-)