The Economic Crisis and How to Deal with It

[heyzeusful]

and roubini's last comment is profoundly dishonest (as is his style) as appropriations for regulatory agencies grew 50% during bush's presidency alone. 

[heyzeusful]

did everyone here what ferguson correctly predicted about debt? well, it happened. he was right. now over 100% of GDP.

The entirety of Krugman's and other leftists arguments are that "if we lived in fantasyland where savings were lower, demand was higher, and consumption was higher, we'd be just fine." unfortunately, here, back on planet earth, that isn't the case. we can't take our way into higher demand or into greater consumption.

[mtklaric]

I know what Schiff would say to help Ferguson here, If it werent for the existance of the FED and fractional reserve lending there wouldnt be any of these irational exuberances growing so much

[Tarclasp]

People forgot they weren't rich? BS! Problem is these greedy pricks on the inside line, and the media who pushed this fiat based fantasy land. I'll go out on a limb and wager that all these prudes made money off this, and are all well prepaired for the inseption of the NWO.

[chippprrr]

These men are simply advisors on how to create economic problems & then identify them as if their men of wisdom for the sole purpose of forcing whole societies, peolpes, & nations to a bargaining table. It's proof that the best we can do as humans or learned men of status are the worst we could've done. There are no solutions to this economic chaos from these men of a cesspool class. They wreak of scheming instigation!!!

[chippprrr]

Most or all of these men are promo's for corporate & monetary globalization.

Better put as "the New Economy" or "New World Order". It is their solutions for

the end to this Eco crisis.

[chippprrr]

Most or all of these men are promo's for corporate & monetary globalization.

Better put as "the New Economy" or "New World Order". It is their solutions for

the end to this Eco crisis.

[maleki9]

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things doesn't belong, one the these people is a fucking retard. Poor Krugman, he has to sit next to a functional retard without the benefit of earplugs.

[ragmanintx]

Ferguson schooled them all. Their only recourse? Shut him up. Very Typical of Liberals.

[brendos444]

Oh man, Nouriel Roubini gives Ferguson the biggest smackdown at the end. Roubini's right, if the Bush administration hadn't been so ideologically enamoured with free markets and had been more pragmatic about regulation and govt intervention, this crisis wouldn't have happened, or at least wouldn't have been as severe.

[grob3y]

This is your typical liberal panel discussion. 85% liberal against 15% conservative. They still lost.

[LongliveSnak2e]

CONFLICT OF FUCKING INTEREST, A PANEL MEMBER IS THE WIFE OF ANOTHER PANIELIEST.

Come on.

[flowewritharoma]

Donate to this organization shows!!!

I have waited the system like this!!! This is the end of long among that copyright infrigement and uploader struggles conserquense of battle each other.

I support this system.

[gettingahandle]

The talk fest marathon continues as the chineese watch bemused.

[principles101]

In the end is when the entire panel starts telling on itself..."safety net." That's the goal. Create the problem, public reacts, then come in with the solution. Beautiful! Goal accomplished here.

[principles101]

All of these people on the panel are actually on the same page. This is all showmanship. There is a reason why the likes of Ron Paul and Peter Schiff were not invited to this event. God forbid the truth be told!

[islandmuffin]

Does a Nobel prize winning economist have any obligation to demonstrate basic statistical honesty, even when editorializing?

[thecomputergurukid]

What a panel!!

[KripkeSaul]

You can see how hard it is for Krugman to refrain from laughing.

[KripkeSaul]

Ferguson's a tool!

[nissanka]

I am very skeptical about the so-called "laws of economics"!

[abonawas]

@nissanka its not a recession but a game that was carefully instigated bank war......i say the talmudic heigh priests of finance are behind it all.....its thier game and thier trade.....and they play it with skill...they leave all naked begging for rescue....then they lend us money to pay what we owe,,,a never ending ponzi scheme......its been done many times before and will continue to be done in future....the jews have the talmud that tells them how to do it.

[8644371]

Who else just viewed this to see the Krugman-Ferguson confrontation?

[tubub]

@8644371

gave u a thumbs up.

[islandmuffin]

Peer-reviewed study finds Keynesian Paul Krugman is the most partisan economist. Krugman was the only economist to "significantly" change his stances for partisan reasons. Krugman has even gone so far as to contradict his own findings to bash Republican politicians.

The peer-reviewed research was published in May 2010 issue of the Econ Journal Watch (EJW), edited by Daniel B. Klein.

Seven Nobel laureates are members of the EJW Advisory Council

[thecomputergurukid]

@islandmuffin How the hell can you do a study on how partisain an economist is?

[PresidentRich]

No Austrians?

[yjfoo81]

Is Ferguson an Austrian?

[PresidentRich]

@yjfoo81 Not an Austrian economist

[Sivels]

@yjfoo81 No. He is more of a neoliberal economist. Which is more rightleaning. He has recommended that the US is replacing the personal income tax, corporate income tax, FICA payroll tax, estate tax, and gift tax with a 33% Federal Retail Sales Tax (FRST). Look up fairtax. Also he proposes the (partial) privatization of social security and vouching of medicare and medicaid. So clearly he's a good alternative to the Paul Krugman's.

[yjfoo81]

@Sivels I'm confused now. What's the difference between neoliberal economist and Austrian cuz Ferguson sounds a lot like Peter Schiff in many respects. I know that Ferguson is not as good as Marc Faber, Peter Schiff and Jim Rogers in terms of predictive power but even the best Austrian Economists sometimes disagrees with each other. I think that Ferguson is not completely against the bail out. Is that the difference between Austrian and neoliberals?

[Sivels]

@yjfoo81 Well, yes. He is more within the mainstream. I'm not 100% sure about the methodology of austrian economics, but basically economics is all about understanding reality, as with any other science. Obviously all of these keynesian (except hacks are delusional and in eternal denial. Just listen to Roubini in the end.

I think the austrian school deals with certain aspects of economics.

But to address your question, I would say he's much in line with the Peter Schiffs and libertarianism

[Sivels]

@yjfoo81 But he is more of an european liberal (libertarian) I think, where they have a different tradition.

The difference between neoliberalism and the asutrian school is probably the area of focus. But both are concerned with liberty and more laissez-faire capitalism, and a servant state. So the philosophical premises are much in line.

The austrian school is concerned with understanding the business cycle I think. Neoliberalism is concerned with market reforms. So they are siblings u cudsay

[yjfoo81]

@Sivels You know any good reads on how to draw the line between the state and the people? Schiff says main purpose of govn't is national defense. But why? In what areas are govn't more effecient than private sector?  I've been thinking about that but with no answer. Milton Friedman proposed privatization on almost everything! I think Peter Schiff speaks with the most sense among all economists I've heard, but even him doesn't have a good soln for air pollution!

[Sivels]

@yjfoo81 They're not. Laissez-fairez capitalism is hands off on the economy. But the state protects your liberties (advocates: Ron Paul, Milton Friedman, Peter Schiff, Ayn Rand). But there are also another type of libertarianism called anarcho-capitalism that says the state doesn't have to be the provider of these services and that defence, police, fire fighters, etc etc could be provided by the private (natural) sector. Look up Murray Rothbard, who s had a huge influence on many libertarians.

[Sivels]

@yjfoo81 So the state doesn't have to be the provider of these things, but some libertarians think it can do it more effectively in today's world, with all the aggresive ideologies etc.

Remember, the moral primacy of the individual (that the left ardently opposes) says that noone is a slave to society and that everything must be voluntary. When it comes to air pollution, people will demand cleaner air and so the markets will respond to these demands. But of course there will be problems.

[yjfoo81]

@Sivels I've read an article on reforestation by the free market on Mises, and it's pretty convincing. I think the concept can be applied to all land pollutions. But I think it's harder to privatize the ocean and the atmosphere(or mebbe impossible). And often when you pollute the air, it get ireversiblely damaged b4 the damage is realized by everyone in order to give air a fair price. That's why I doubt the free market or Austrian economists could have any solution for that.

[Sivels]

@yjfoo81 By the way, governments are the biggest polluters there are. But my point was, that there are many free market solutions to pollution. I haven't read much about it, but excellent sources of knowledge are the following: The cato institute, reason magazine, the mises institute, stefbot (on youtube), and john stossel on fox news (I think it's a good show that delivers raw libertarianism to a mainstream audience).

[yjfoo81]

@Sivels You're right about economics is about understanding the reality! I was wondering how Keyesians like George Soros and Roubini was able to predict the crisis!

[rupertmja1]

2 This will take a long time, but it is the only real way forward - yep, become a developing country.

[really12345]

Robin wells is right about "a financialization, where the GDP is tilted towards the financial sector".

However, Marx and Engels were talking about fictitious capital way back in the mid-nineteenth century.

What happened after the 1930s depression? 50 million dead, Cities leveled, Countries flattened, populations incinerated, introduction of Nuclear weapons and their use on 2 Japanese Cities.

Does anyone think another world war is survivable for our species?

We need a different system!

[ericclaptonismygod31]

Fergusen is likely the best voice on the panel. This guy should help run the country rather than socialists like Krugman. The USA is going broke and unless the fiscal problems are dealth with soon, the savings of Americans wll be inflated into worthlessness.

There are 3 options; raise taxes, cut spending, or monetize debt and inflate away US savings. Good luck retiring with the third option. Spending will have to be cut and some taxes are likely to go up.

Be careful of personal attacks!

[jampatenzin]

all the panels spoke big words but,

what about millions of dollars worth of pirated goods sold unlawfully in USA.

what about thousands of businesses running and employing employees who don't pay tax

what about millions of Chinese and

foreign immigrants taking up jobs of natives

what about wall mart? cheap made in chinese goods and giving lost to domestic sectors??

what about chinese currency manipulation??/

wat about pirated dvds?? there are hundreds

[patnais102]

Pirated dvds? What the hell does it have to do in this?Pirated goods are nothing compared to the tax revenue big corporations (the poor victim of your evil pirates) hide from government in fiscal paradises. For the labor problems , politicians will never address this issue because they let the unions disappear (what's left is so corrupted they should not be called union).There was one politician on the panel the rest were economists and economists don't study the demography of production.

[patnais102]

I don't count Ferguson because this guy is irrelevant. People who think he is right are stupid idiot. Educated people usually don't realize which part of the population they represent. It's easy to say cut spending but when people keep losing their job and you know 75% of the population don't have post high school education (this is the number in my country and our post high school education is way cheaper than your) if the administration follow his advice it will be an all out civil war.

[thoughtbutnotsaid]

Pirated dvds, finger pointing at immigrants (particular Chinese) and the old they're "taking our job" argument.. Spoken as a true person who is A) prejudice and B) ignorant. First, you should be thankful for immigration as otherwise you wouldn't be seeing any US population growth, and the economy would be MORE in the tanks. Secondly, in a free market, it's all about supply and demand. You might want to be pointing that finger at those old, white "native" execs that set-up those business deals.

[knoxsummerour]

Ferguson keeps quoting facts, numbers, percentages. But he doesn't seem to realize: liberal ideologues--indeed, ideologues of any sort--aren't very interested in factual argumentation. They are more interested in emotional and idyllic projections of what the future will look like if their ideas rule the day.

[MattyJames25]

@knoxsummerour You can't possibly mean economic liberals, so I am assuming you are using the term "liberal ideologues" to denote social progressives. Regardless, to characterize the other positions presented here as being mere "emotional and idyllic projections," in contrast to Ferguson's "facts, numbers, percentages" is a cheap tactic to render an economic theory other than your own as baseless: a tactic of an ideologue.

[escapeout]

@knoxsummerour WOW you hit the nail in the head, Thanks

[thesparitan]

@knoxsummerour Ferguson was very silent under the bush administration. He is only talking about this because he doesn't like Obama or better way to say it is his very passive support for social programs. He seems to believe that the only way to improve the economy is to cut entitlements and cut taxes, both have been shown to not be effective in creating economic recovery. Paul Krugman has nobel and created modern trade theory, ferguson is a know nothing. But stupid people like him.

[halneufmille]

Krugman is so crystal clear, as usual. And right, of course.

[nawrockidavid]

This is a great panel discussion. Everyone on it made important points. I have a lot of respect for Niall Ferguson (Ascent of Money) but I didn't expect such a dogmatic monetarist view from him. Soros the pragmatic investor had the best view of everything. The problem with current debates is everything is so polarized. Finding a middle ground is very important to finding a solution. Neither extreme is going to carry the day. However, Soros is right - it was a theoretical collapse.

[prickett233]

soros looks pissed off having to sit in the cheap seats they have at the venue

[molotovcocktail9]

Wow, this keeps repeating itself.. whether it's cnn or msnbc or fox or these mediated forums. The stupid pissant moderator and the clueless panelists try to shush the only guy who made any frigging sense in this discussion, Niall Ferguson...

[nemnaisa]

The nervous laughter when Niall Ferguson speaks.  Why? Because Niall is the one only who speaks the truth.

[ostralopithicus]

Agree, Niall is a great and honest man.

[ogogosi]

I find Niall great as well and his arguments totally convincing. About Honest I am not so sure, after I saw what appears to be his speech in support of McCain during the election campaign. The arguments he presented there were ridiculous, which makes me think he was just trying to play politics rather than being honest.

[ostralopithicus]

You're right, I looked that up. McCain is a nut, I'm not sure that Niall's comments on him were ridiculous, but surely there is an agenda there. McCain is a big government neo-con. I wonder if Niall was expressing his agenda or the hoover institute's agenda? (he works for them) I don't know. The hoover institute's mission statement seems libertarian but are they really? Skeptical.

[halneufmille]

Agree, Niall is a great and honest believer. Thank goodness the others are pragmatic and evidence-based driven.

[halneufmille]

Everybody disagrees with him. But of course, he's the lone maverick who protects the true faith.

[meshzzizk]

What the hell does that even mean?

[smookeyagni]

BLAH BALAH

[josephcecil]

isn't this from early 2009? months ago, still relevant, but ...

thanks for having the event..

[halneufmille]

Not if you want to know current events.  If you want to understand something though, that's quite relevant.