you gentiles are Pathetic Always take some jew and make him god or Messiah just like the jesus and kerl marx and know this noam chomsky did you ever wondering why is this all your biggst gods and messiah and your intellectuals from right and left are jewish and you wonder how we the jews call are self the chosen people dont diss this
comment in 100 yreas from know your kids will things that holly histroy just like your Fathers Though't even the arebs belive in a jewish idea of god
Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum, Rebbe of Satmar, Hungary, later rabbi of Palestine
רבי יואל טייטלבוים זצ"ל אדמו"ר ואב" ד סאטמאר
If we were to put all the sins of this generation and all the transgressions committed in the entire world on one side of a scale, and the Zionist state on the other side, it would outweigh everything, for it is the poisonous source of the worst defilement, the worst cause of damage in the entire world, and they are ones who defile the entire world
@mnc17 If Israel was such a righteous state, why would there be so many problem? Now you can blame hamas and the whole world but the fact is Israel is the problem. Israel is a dowm fall for the whole world
The ultimate proof of Israel as a bankrupt culture is when you see Israeli men throwing molotov cocktails at each other in public squares, to protest their current government.
We were arguing about the truth of the proposition that "Hamas wants to improve conditions for Palestinians." You made the statement, asserting it to be true. I argued that it was false, and that your making it demonstrated a pro-Hamas bias.
(3) Third response is meant to discount your statement (Hamas wants better conditions for Palestinian people) into a truism, that is "FUCKING OBVIOUS", according to your understanding of "want."You've watered down your original point so much, I fail to see why you made it all. You've rendered your point (the distinction between being pro-Hamas and pro-Palestinian) into a truism, and I don't think you would have bothered making your original assertion if this is all you really meant to say.
(1) In your first response, you again dodge the substance of my argument by suggesting you've already made your point. Actually, you haven't defended your semantics, and it wouldn't be repetitive to do so. This isn't a tangent, its about how allegedly humanitarian people like you are insidiously sympathetic to Hamas.
(2) Second response, you lie about the cause of the argument. You invoked Hamas. Read your second post on the thread. Also, I nowhere assume pro-Palestinian people are pro-Hamas.
Earlier you chose to identify Hamas as a group that wants better conditions, which now you attempt to qualify by diluting the assertion into a triviality. Anyone wants everything for everybody as long as it costs no one anything. Is that really your point? If that's your point, you might as well have substituted "Netanyahu" for "Hamas." But I don't think you would have. Now you're just playing dishonest word games, instead of admitting you meant to flatter Hamas.
@LearnedHand2008 This is why I didn't bother trying to explain myself earlier. It was an absolute waste of my time. You continue to believe what you want and continue to dictate my own beliefs to me. I used Hamas ONLY because you accuse anyone who supports Palestine of Hamas' crimes. I was pointing out how ridiculous this it because, like most Palestinian supporters, I do not support Hamas. I hate how simply using that one word has made you go off on this tangent. It is unbelievably frustrating.
@LearnedHand2008 The reason that I drew the connection was because I was extrapolating YOUR position. Why else would you assume that to be pro-Palestinian is pro-Hamas unless you saw some inherent connection? Like most people here, I would prefer to not bring up Hamas because they do not represent my political views. YOU invoked them, by drawing up a comparison. I was trying to show how different my political beliefs were from them by drawing on a single, insignificant shared belief...
@LearnedHand2008 ...that is shared by people all over the world, from all nationalities. Who does not want a better state of affairs for the Palestinian people? Racists and bigots. You claim that it is a 'weak' definition of the word 'want' - WELL THAT IS FUCKING OBVIOUS. My whole argument was the inherent weakness of this connection that YOU ARE DRAWING.
@LearnedHand2008 You are unbelievable. I do not believe I could have made this any clearer and yet you are still tap-dancing around it. Either you are being extremely dishonest, creating this strawman argument and asking me to defend myself against it, or you are too blinded by your own political beliefs to think openly about this topic.
@LearnedHand2008 I keep re-reading what I've written and I do not understand how you have constructed this whole tangent. I also can not believe that I was trying to reason with you regarding it. It seems absolutely crazy. You are dictating a belief I do not hold and requesting an explanation of it. When I explain I do not hold it, you say I don't believe you. What is the point of arguing over this?
Well, I guess you don't stand behind it. Thank you for conceding the point. Hamas doesn't want better conditions for Gazans. If it did, it would take the extremely simple step of recognizing Israel's international border with Gaza.
Again, you're playing semantic games with the word "want." In the sense that "if they (Hamas) were offered a method to improve the situation of the Palestinians without making any ideological concessions, they would take it", I totally agree that Hamas "wants" better conditions. But your definition of "want" is so weak as to be self-evident. According to you, I could truthfully say Israel "wants" better conditions for Palestinians as long it doesn't compromise its own security.
You are such a retard. I DO NOT LIKE HAMAS. This whole discussion was hijacked by your insistence that I do. I said that Hamas wants a better state of affairs for the Palestinian people as a side point to illustrate YOUR unfair connection between being pro-Israeli and pro-terrorist. You replied, that they care more about ideology than Palestinian well-being and I agreed with you. IT STRENGTHENS MY ARGUMENT. There is a bigger divide between supporters of Palestinians and those of Hamas.
I'm sorry, you pathetic limey snob, but the sun has set. I've demonstrated your pro-Hamas bias, and you've not responded to the substance of my argument. You haven't even bothered to defend your "opinion" that Hamas cares about its subjects. When you state something that isn't true, it demonstrates bias, it doesn't matter what the content of the claim is. Do you really not understand this? Pol pot was a nice guy: sorry, that's just my opinion, I don't have a pro-Khmer Rouge bias.
"I don't support Bush, but I do support his concern for the poor black people of New Orleans." Not true statement about bay guy=bias in favor of bad guy. GET IT?
(2) You were trying to distinguish support for Palestinian welfare from support for militancy. Ok, they can be distinguished. Suggesting that Hamas cares about Palestinian welfare in the process of making that distinction reveals a pro-Hamas bias because its not true, and not necessary to make your point. What if I said, "I didn't support Bush, but I supported his concern for Iraqi civilians." This reveals a pro-Bush bias because the substance of my distinction contains an untruth. GET IT?
You're engaging in semantics. It would be meaningless to say Hamas "wants peace", but that it simply prioritizes peace below waging an existential war against a country of millions (it has, absurdly, suggested this). Your counterintuitive and, frankly, delusional suggestion that Hamas wants better conditions for Gazans is rendered meaningless by your definition of "want": if Hamas doesn't want better conditions enough to simply respect Oslo, it doesn't want them in any reasonable sense.
Wow you're pretty thick. The CIA-backed leader first imprisoned Saddam, and then later Saddam overthrew his friend, who had overthrown the CIA-backed leader. Nothing you've posted supports your original assertion that the US brought Saddam Hussein to power, especially since Saddam came to power in the late 1970's. You distort history to reflect your reactionary anti-American nonsense.
n 1963, the United States backed a coup against the government of Iraq headed by General Abdul Karim Qassim, who five years earlier had deposed the Western-allied Iraqi monarchy.The Baathist used lists of people provided by the U.S. to carry out a bloodbath, systematically murdering untold numbers of Iraq's educated elite—killings in which Saddam Hussein himself participated. The CIA brought the Baathists to power enabling Saddam to eventually rule Iraq. Read history idiot!
I've conflated nothing. You can't separate Hamas' less odious policies from its fascistic fantasy of totalitarian domination. If you think you can parse these things, you're not operating in the real world.
@LearnedHand2008 "We regarded it as a great victory". Iraqi participants later confirmed American involvement. We came to power on a CIA train, admitted Ali Saleh Sa'adi, the Baath Party secretary general who was about to institute an unprecedented reign of terror. CIA assistance included coordination of the coup plotters inside the U.S. embassy in Baghdad as well as a radio station in Kuwait and solicitation of advice from around the Middle East on who on the left should be eliminated.
Germany once considered itself the right to define itself as an "Aryan" state, Jews, Gypsys and disabled people violated this right as well as people who opposed Adolf Hitler.
Israel considers itself the right to define itself as a "Jewish" state Arabs and non-Jews violate this right as well as those who oppose Avigdor Lieberman.
By your logic, France is also Fascist and racist since it defines itself as the state of the French nation. Your analogy is false, twisted, and dishonest. Israel is the state of the Jewish people, which embraces Jews of all colors, who've been oppressed and massacred all over the world for centuries. It takes a perverse mind to believe this is a racist enterprise.
You really are a moron! You need a brain transplant. I will spell it out to you in idiot language. Everybody in France is French, wether you are Black, White, Jewish, Christian Muslim etc. In Israel depending on where Israel's borders are(doesn't have any as Ben Gurion or Sharon said!) 20% to over 50% are NOT JEWISH so the state does not belong to them just like South Africa did not belong to people who were not White when it was an Apartheid state. IDIOT!
Well, they have the same rights (voting, public education, universal healthcare etc.) so really the country does 'belong' to them in any meaningful sense. By your logic, Kurds in Turkey are living under an apartheid state, as are Assyrians in Iraq, East Indians in many African countries and in the Arab world, etc. There are many countries with a national identity that protects rights for non-national minorities. Your perspective is twisted and hysterically dishonest.
I know that you IDIOT but none of these countries claim to be a DEMOCRACY! A democracy you idiot is where everyone is equal and can vote freely. In the Soviet Union everyone could vote but it was not a democracy. In South Africa Coloureds and Indians had the vote Blacks didn't but Whites had supremacy over everyone else. In Israel Israel Arabs have the vote but are not Nationals Jerusalemite Palestinians have residency only the rest are stateless.
Well Switzerland does claim to be (and is) a democracy. I can give you other examples of democratic countries with hereditary citizenship laws (even for people not born domestically). Israeli Arabs vote and are nationals. It sounds like you're losing grip on reality. Stateless Palestinians live on land that isn't recognized to be part of Israel under international law, so I don't see how they fit into an argument about Israeli Arabs
You are such an idiot. Israeli Arabs are not Nationals of Israel because there is no such thing as Israeli nationality. The Israeli Supreme Court refuses to recognize it. There is Jewish Nationality, and over a 100 other Nationalities Israel recognises but not Israeli Nationality.
"national" is a synonym for "citizen", and the Israeli Supreme Court recognizes such a thing. There are Arab-Israelis who self-identify as "Druze Israelis" and "Christian Israelis", even as "Muslim Israelis". You'll have to clarify what you mean by "nationality", because pretty much any understanding of word means there are "Israeli" nationals who are not Jewish.
Israel is the only country in the world which is not the state of its citizens. It is the only country in the world in which citizenship and nationality are not the same. A British citizen has British nationality wether he is White, Black, Jewish, Christian or Muslim. In Israel Nationality is defined in ethnic terms not citizenship terms. Just like in South Africa under Apartheid there were no South Africans only White, Coloureds and Indians.
You just keep lying, repeating the same tired untruths, which aren't even coherent. Israeli gives all its citizens equal rights, so it is a "state of all its citizens" as much as France, England, or any other state with majority and minorities cultures is. Citizenship and nationality are by definition the same thing...have you looked this up yet?
I don't know if you no Hebrew but if you look at an Israeli passport it clearly says that the person on the passport has Israeli citizenship but does not mention Israeli nationality. Why do you think that is?
The Passport says that because being a citizen and being a national mean the same thing. That applies to all passports for any country. You seem to be confused about what nationality is. Care to clarify your definition of this word?
You seem to think that people who don't identify with the national symbols and dominant culture of their country are suffering from "apartheid." But this is total nonsense. Are urdu-speaking pakistani muslim citizens of England suffering from "apartheid" because there is a cross on the English flag and their sovereign queen is also the head of the state religion? Your view of Israel is rendered absurd by comparison to other countries.
Unless you're arguing that all nationalism is racist, then your argument is nonsense. If you believed that, then you'd have to condemn dozens of other countries, including all the Arab ones.
@LearnedHand2008 You are still conflating them. Are you honestly suggesting that it is impossible to either criticize Israel or sympathize with the Palestinians and NOT believe in creating a totalitarian state? Every comment I've read of yours has implied this. If someone tells you that the Palestinians are being brutalized, that does not mean that they are anti-west, support Muslim fundamentalism or wish to create a totalitarian state.
I agree entirely with your last two posts, and nothing I've said suggests I would disagree with them. But you spoke favorably of Hamas before. You're changing your tune.
@LearnedHand2008 I did not speak favourably of Hamas. I stated that Hamas and Palestinian sympathisers share only one belief necessarily: better conditions for the Palestinians. You went on to comment that Hamas prioritize their ideology ahead 0of the people`s condition. This may be true, but it does not mean that they do not want better conditions for the Palestinians. If anything, this difference in prioritization supports what I was saying further. It is incorrect to confuse them.
Further, your suggestion that you weren't speaking favorably of Hamas is DISHONEST. Its a shame you don't live in the USA, because here, flimsy, apologies for death-worshiping barbarians are ridiculed. You were obviously
sticking up for Hamas' non-existent humanitarian credentials. There was no other reason to mention them by name. I'm sorry your society is morally rotting from the inside, and you can't tell up from down. I really am. Don't take it out on the Jews.
@LearnedHand2008 I see you are a brick wall of ignorance, deceit and bigotry. I've shown you precisely where you are wrong repeatedly, and yet you continue to twist my position. Re-read my comments if you have difficulty understanding them. I feel cheated of my time: after the long description I gave, the only word you read was 'HAMAS'. The underlying point was wasted. Maybe you are not intellectually equipped to understand it, maybe you are being obtuse.
@Englishdosser86 You have a pitiable, yet infuriating mental deficiency regarding this issue. In your skewed version of reality, any support of the Palestinian people is automatically equated as support for Hamas and terrorism. Due to this, you are unable to be objective, empathetic or rational. You displace your irrationality and bigoted views on to others, when -if you were capable- rectifying this one logical error would undoubtedly make your position more coherent.
(1) You didn't respond to the substance of my last post, so who is being obtuse and wasting the other's time? I said nowhere that support of Palestinians is equated with support for Hamas. My insults are very well-substantiated, since you still seem unable to understand how your absurd sympathy for anti-Western values manifests itself in what you believe is an impartial, valid argument. Is what I'm saying really too nuanced for you to understand? Consider the following:
Thank you for conceding. I hope my explaining your pro-Hamas bias didn't come as too much of a shock to you. It really doesn't help your case to attempt to repair a shoddy argument with conceit and condescending nonsense, especially when you're too much of a masochistic self-hating liberal to understand your own malady. If you were actually a liberal, like me, you'd be able to distinguish between liberal values and fascism.
@LearnedHand2008 Re-read what I've said. I'm not going to pointlessly repeat myself. If you have a problem distinguishing between your own bias and the opinions of others, then this is an issue that you'll have to deal with on your own. You have a laughablely high opinion of yourself. It was very gracious of you to accept a concession I never made. Go and give yourself a big pat on the back for being such a clever little boy!
If you have a problem distinguishing between my having a high opinion of myself and my having a low opinion of Islamist-loving apologist liars, then perhaps you should check your GPS. You're in GB, not Egypt.
@LearnedHand2008 Now, in terms of your Bush analogy - it was flawed. A better example is if you were to say that Bush does not care about Americans or the US. He is American and he lives and represents America. Is he selfish? Does he make poor and often selfish political decisions? Does he often prioritize other things in front of the well-being of Americans? Yes - but he does still want a better US. Do you really think Hamas' only objective is the destruction of Israel?
@Englishdosser86 Let me repeat my original point that you skipped over by creating this tangent. Just because two people may share a single belief, does not mean that they have the same belief system. I agree that Hamas are letting their ideological hatred, and sense of grievance towards Israel take priority to anything else.
@Englishdosser86 This could indicate that they care little about the suffering, but if they were offered a method to improve the situation of the Palestinians without making any ideological concessions, they would take it. The amount that they want an improvement is inconsequential to my argument. If they have any inclination, it is enough. That is way this point was so inconsequential. And yet you jumped on it. Maybe you should address your own bias against Muslims.
@Englishdosser86@Englishdosser86 This could indicate that they care little about the suffering, but if they were offered a method to improve the situation of the Palestinians without making any ideological concessions, they would take it. The amount that they want an improvement is inconsequential to my argument. If they have any inclination, it is enough. That is way this point was so inconsequential. And yet you jumped on it. Maybe you should address your pro-Israel bias first.
@LearnedHand2008 Do not expect me spoon-feed when I have already been clear. Your insults are meaningless and unsubstantiated. It's a shame you don't live in gaza, so that you can see past your own blinkered vision.
The leading rejectionist Palestinian movement (Hamas) claims a RELIGIOUS right to establish a totalitarian state in Palestine. The are not liberal, secular democrats fighting for human rights. They are fighting for Jewish enslavement.
IFE seeks to establish the same totalitarian government in Europe. If you're not a fascist Islamist, its hard to see how you could support Hamas and not IFE, since they have the same ideological goalsThis is where your blind hatred of Israel (hypocrisy) comes in.
@LearnedHand2008 I do not have a blind hatred of Israel. The fact that you are claiming that I do, illustrates that you are either a lier or deluded. I do believe that its creation was rushed, ill thought out and has resulted in generations of unresolved unhappiness for the Palestinian people.
@LearnedHand2008 You've also seemed to conflate a certain political objective with the complete agenda of a political party that shares that objective. In other words, because a person may want humane living conditions for the Palestinian people (a belief shared by Hamas) it does not mean that they subscribe to all the views of Hamas. To simply lump all of them together is a gross mistake and encourages a completely one-sided perspective on the matter.
You've got it entirely backwards mate. Hamas doesn't want humane living conditions for Palestinians (which they already have, contrary to the disinformation about a "humanitarian crisis" in Gaza. Gazans are exporting food to Egypt as we speak). To completely open the Gaza strip, all Hamas needs to do is recognize Israel (originally, a predicate condition for Palestinian elections according to treaty, the strongest form of international law).
Hamas has prioritized the material welfare of its people BELOW its ideological goals, which involve either massacring, expelling, or enslaving 6 millions Israeli Jews under a totalitarian theocracy. Your position is counterintuitive: Hamas, on its own, can recognize Oslo, end rocket attacks, and leave Israelis alone without compromising Gaza's security. Israel, on the other hand, cannot give freedom to Gaza without compromising its own security. So why ask for the latter?
@LearnedHand2008 For the sake of argument, I'll agree with you. That still does not invalidate what I've already said. The vast majority of people that support Palestinians and criticize Israel do not necessarily (or in fact, in reality) support Hamas' agenda completely. To conflate sympathising with the Palestinian condition and the political objectives of Hamas is a gross oversimplification. It is fallacious to equate anti-Israeli sentiments to Muslim fundamentalism or ideology.
You didn't prove shit. Ask Palestinians whether they think they are a "race." They don't think so. They think they are a nation. Its obvious that, first, you arrive at the conclusion that Israel is racist, and then work backwards to justify your propaganda. Palestinians consider themselves Arabs, and certainly not a distinct race. Not even your Jew-hating friends in the Arab world would agree with you on this point, liar.
@LearnedHand2008 The Jews aren't a race either. You have the white European Jews, the brown Arab Jews and the black African Jews. No relationship between them. Their religious beliefs vary wildly. Hell, many are atheistic. The Palestinians are much more a homogenous race than the Jews.
So what? Modern national identity isn't based on the idea of race. You seem to be suggesting that Palestinians have political rights based on the homogeneity of their "race", which is fascistic and racist in itself. You're making the same argument the Nazis made to justify the Third Reich, but you're don't it on behalf of Palestinians. I don't think Palestinians would appreciate that too much.
@LearnedHand2008 Just a moment ago you (rather maturely) called me a moron for describing the Palestinians as a race. Now you complain when the mirror argument is made. You're right: race is irrelevant, so why did you make it an issue in the first place? Let's get back to the real issue: the brutalisation of the Palestinian people by the Zionist regime
"Modern national identity isn't based on the idea of race". You have said one thing that is right! It is only in insane racist states like Germany in the 1930s that are obsessed with racial purity. Or in Israel, you are only Jewish if your Mother was Jewish so Jewish identity is based on heredity which is racist based.
Well, thats not true, since converts can and do become citizens. But even if it was, the citizenship law of Switzerland is hereditary, as are many rich Arab countries. You've still failed to distinguish Israel from other normal countries.
Jews do not have a common origin they come from a 100 countries all over the world. Ethnic Swiss people have a common origin they come from Switzerland. There is only one Switzerland not a 100 Switzerlands. Only 10000 people convert to Judaism every year so very few of them end up going to Israel on its bogus "right of return". Even then they would have to approved by the Chief Rabbinate that they are "Jewish" enough.
Well the Swiss do not all have a common origin, which might you have figured out from the fact they have 4 official languages. More important, you just made the argument that hereditary citizenship law is ok if applied to an ethnically homogenous country, but that wouldn't be any less racist than such a law applying in a diverse country. You're not making sense, which is probably a symptom of irrational Israel-hatred.
The Swiss do have a common origin because Switzerland is a country with a geographically defined area and records going back centuries prooving people came from there so it is possible to trace ancestors who were once Swiss. But it is extremely difficult to proove a Jewish person had ancestors who once lived in Palestine as far back as 2000 years ago so the "law of return" based on hereditry is a sham.
Even if that's all true (its not), that's a different point from the one you made before, which is that hereditary citizenship laws are inherently racist. You're backing away from your first argument and actually making a worse one: that people should be entitled to citizenship based on their pedigree going back many generations. That is an extremely racist idea.
Its really twisted that you invert a policy created to protect Jewish people from the worse racism that has ever existed into something racist itself.
Anyone who visits Israel and sees how integrated a society it is will automatically feel foolish for even considering the hateful, vitriolic, malicious propaganda spewed by delusional idiots like you.
Britain has the BNP, France has Le Pen, etc...the "population transfer" idea has no real currency in Israel, and you know it. Even Netanyahu treats the idea like a joke. Its a fringe idea, and NOBODY believes it would ever be implemented. It is politically impossible. Your lies are still rubbish.
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." Menachem Begin, former Prime Minister of Israel
The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live.
Thousands of Israelis who want peace describe Israel as an Apartheid state.
When you have proven liars like Mark Regev, Tzipi Livni and other right-wing lunatics saying it is not that the question should be how bad is Israeli Apartheid not whether it is an Apartheid state.
Imagine Hamas entering Israel, killing over 1,200 civilians and injureing 5,000 people in 22 days? What would be your reaction? What would be the reaction of the world? Forget realpolitik. Let's talk about reality!
Is that because zionsm built a state at the expense of paletinian land? Is that because people were expelled from their homes? Or is it because the state of israel of only for jews? a supremacist state in other words? what do you think was going to ho happen? Complete and understandable blowback to rogue-state like neo-colonilasm.
The causes for this situation are quite complicated and it is hard to really discuss it here on youtube. Your statements have some truth to them but if you look at it the way u said- "Forget realpolitik", then the barriers and roadblocks should also be understandable, since they save lives. for a fact. cuz it is much harder to carry out suicide bombings in to the Israeli rear. And if it protects me and my family, then I'm all for it. wouldnt u be?
They would if they could. Acutally, they'd kill millions of Israelis Jews if they could. That's why Israel defends itself against them. You people don't seem to give a shit about Jewish lives. Thats interesting
@LearnedHand2008 Has not the Zionist State of Supremacist Israel grown at the expense of historic Palestine? Yes, Israel and every other exising nation should defend itself. But how about the Palestinians defending themselves against not only more loss of land but the chance of having their own independent state? Zionist Jews once coveted a land of their own. And due to the British, aquired much of Palestine. Do not the Palestinians deserve to have a state they can call their own?
haha, yeah, Israel is really "Supremacist" because it insists on being a country for a specific culture. I guess Great Britain should take all those crosses off of its flag and become a country "for all of its citizens." Darn those supremacist British people who insist on defining their country using a specific culture. How racist of them. But nevermind Saudi Arabia or Iran who are actually totalitarian fascist countries without freedom of anything
@LearnedHand2008 specific culture? more like specific religion, hence, supremacist. I can go to Great Britain, Saudi Arabia and Iran and become either a resident or citizen. You can't since your Zionist state is illegal according to the Torah and an illegally occupying force since 1948. And no one can become a citizen of Israel unless they are or become Jewish. And if it were not forunder the British gun and Lord Belfour, you would not be living in historic Palestine called Israel.
Oh, you think you can be a Christian and go to Saudi Arabia or Iran and become a citizen without converting to Islam? Wow, you're a fucking idiot. Of course you can't. You think you can move to France and become a citizen without learning French? Can't do that either. I guess France is a French-supremacist country. They are so "illegal." You really like that word even though you don't know what the fuck it means
@LearnedHand2008 : Why is it that whenever someone criticises Israeli policy, the Israeli will defend himself by saying, "Yes, but Arab countries are even worse!" It's like saying, "Please don't look at our sins. Look at the sins of others, thank you very much." Yes Iran and Saudi have piece of shit governments. But so does Israel. Stop deflecting the issue.
Ok, but when the sins of only one person are examined, the meaning of "sin" disappears. Its a proportionality issue. Arab sins don't absolve Israel, but the extent to which Israel is singled out is absurd to the point that criticizing politicizes and devalues human rights discourse. Human rights are about standards; Israel is always held to a higher standard. This is bad for human rights, not good, because everyone knows it is political, and nobody cares.
@rihoberman There are a number of reasons why Israel's crimes gets more attention than other countries: It receives massive aid and support from the USA superpower, it has broken more UN resolutions than most other countries, it has the 4th most powerful military on the planet, it is destabilising the most important region on the planet, it has been involved in an unusually high number of wars, and of course the profound Biblical and religious interest that surrounds the region and its peoples.
@rihoberman But all of that is irrelevant to my earlier point: it is not an argument to say "pick on other people's sins. Not mine." If you've committed wrong, the fact that others may or may have not done worse is beside the point.
A justice system that prosecutes one ethnic group and none other is corrupt beyond repair, and has no legitimacy. Arab women are treated like Americans treated black slaves in 1840 (and Arabs still do). Kurds, Assyrians, and Christians are expelled from their homes in the MILLIONS. Darfurians are wiped off of the earth. Fewer than 7000 Palestinians (including noncombatants) have died in conflict since 2000, and you call it a genocide when their population is exploding?
You disgusting Israel-haters are trying to feed the world your lies and disinformation. If, God forbid, you are ever taken seriously, your nonsense will be exposed and rot to nothing in the sunlight of public scrutiny. There's no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, Palestinians are growing in number and wealth. You can't hide the real world.
Ouchy. Actually, you're still full of shit. The civilized world, also called "the west", likes Israel. I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that a disgusting Jew-hater like you doesn't speak for the civilized world.
The "civilised world" as you call it does not like the Fascist, Nazi, Racist, Apartheid state of Israel. Any visit to a campus anywhere in the western world would reveal that young people regard the Zionazi abomination to be amongst the darkest regimes in history alongside the Third Reich, Imperial Japan, Jim Crow Alabama, Stalinist Russia and Apartheid South Africa. The evil of Zionism must be removed from the world as has been done against Fascism, Nazism and Communism.
The more ridiculous slurs you throw at Israel the more desperate you look. The Arab Nationalists and Muslim Facists at your uni don't represent the Western World I'm afraid. Israels universities have strong academic relationships all over the world. You're an ignorant, lying twat.
You've got a nice list going there. I suppose Israel is also "just like" the Empire from Star Wars and the Orks of Mordor.
Its odd, actually, that you left the UK off your list of baddies, since your fucking country murdered many more people than two of the regimes you've included. Maybe instead of washing your own guilt with lies and nonsense about Jews, you should own up to your own disgusting and shameful history.
I agree the UK has carried out many crimes as a colonial power such as the transatantic slave trade, extermination of natives etc, but I am willing to admit it although most of it happened before I was born but what about your country you have a very, very, very long list of crimes you have committed:- slavery genocide of native people, Vietnam etc. Now let us hear you own up to them! Repentence is good for the sinner!
@LearnedHand2008 Dont get the governments confused with the people of the world. Yes, a lot of governments support Israel because they consider it to be in their state's economic and or ideological interests. But you ask people on the streets across the globe, you're going to get a very different response. American people are generally a lot more sympathetic to Israel, I'll grant you that - that's in part to do with the deranged religious rapture type beliefs of 25% of Americans.
You're still lying, and you've no idea what you're talking about. Americans sympathize with Israel because they like democracies and hate dictatorships filled with America-hating Muslim Fascists. Its pretty sad that you decide to sympathize with the people who want to destroy Britain. Maybe you're part of the fifth column, who knows.
Israel isn't a democracy. Zionism is incompatible with democracy. Ask yourself why has the Zionist entity failed to produce a Constitution even though it promised to produce on in order to become a UN member? Would the USA be a democracy if it abolished its Constitution and defined itself as a White, Christian state? Of course not! Stupid Zionist.
BRITAIN doesn't have a written Constitution you imbecile. Zionism is a form of nationalism that embraces far more skin colors than does French Nationalism, English Nationalism, Russian Nationalism, and many others. Your world view is laughable ignorant and distorted.
Britain does have a Constitution in fact the USA Constitution is based on the British Constitution. The Bill of Rights? Based on the English of Rights a century older the right to free speech and Habeous Corpus. Ever heard of Magna Carta? Where do you think that came from a dummy like you probably thought it was from the Founding Fathers!
Israel's courts uphold liberal, western constitutional rights without a written constitution, like BRITAIN. Its precisely my point that it doesn't need a written constitution to do this.
Israel's courts do not uphold liberal, western constitutional rights. For example Israel has no laws that forbid racial or religous descrimination in employment. You are talking bullshit. In Israel people of different religions aren't even allowed to get married! 95% of the land is designated for Jews only. What kind of moron are you!
@LearnedHand2008 I don't side with Muslims. I'm an atheist and I dislike Islam as much as I dislike Christianity and Judaism. They're all silly myths. I side with the oppressed. That's why I side with Palestinians. Most moral and informed human beings around the globe sympathise with the Palestinians.
And 4 your info, the Gazans and people of the West Bank arent trying to destroy my country, last time I checked. Unless of course youre lumping ALL muslims together, which would make you a racist.
@LearnedHand2008 Generalised prejudice against the Palestinian race, some of whom are Christian, still makes you a racist. I'm glad that is the only part of what I said that you could think up any coherent response to.
@LearnedHand2008 Here's a definition of 'race': 'A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution'.
I love how you attempt to insult me in every comment. It makes you seem even more retarded when I prove you wrong.
@LearnedHand2008 I agree with you LearnedHand2008. Although, racism does apply, I think the best term for you would be a 'bigot', which refers more explicitly to your prejudiced beliefs based upon religion.
Do you believe hijacking ships in international waters, abducting and killing its passengers and looting the ship's cargo is piracy? Do you think Pirate Long John Benjamin Netanyahu the man responsibe for hijacking the Marvi Marmara should be made to walk the plank or be given 50 lashes? Why is it you do not believe incinerating unarmed civilians with white phosphorous at temperatues of 1500C(refer to Goldstone Report) is not a war crime? Is Israel the Fourth Reich?
They are Islamists, like the IFE, who are trying to infiltrate and subvert mainstream British parties. Watch dispatches, and listen to the non-Islamist muslims living in Britain you are working hard to expose and expel these people from public life.
In the original context of the comment you quoted, I didn't draw a relationship to Israel/Palestine; I was attacking a dysfunctional, self-hating, anti-Western perspective in general. But there is a relationship:
@LearnedHand2008 It is curious that you should say that Americans sympathise with democracies and hate dictatorships, when the US has implanted an impressive amount of brutal, dictatorial regimes around the world, including Suddam Hussein. In some cases, this has involved funding the over-throw of democratically elected governments. What a curious divide between the actions of the government and the beliefs of the people.
"The US didn't "implant" Saddam, he took power himself. Read a fucking history book you idiot". Actually they did the CIA was involved in supporting a coup that brought to power the Baathists and Hussein to power in its anti-communism policy and they certainly helped keep him in power with plenty of weapons of mass destruction. Read a fucking history book you idiot! LOL!
No, you're still wrong. Saddam took power himself. He had CIA contacts, but unless you're a reactionary Anti-Amerian twat (you are), the analysis doesn't stop there. You probably also think that the American government created the Taliban.
In 1963, a CIA-organized coup did successfully assassinate Qasim leader of Iraq and Saddam's Ba'ath Party came to power. The CIA then provided the new pliant, Iraqi regime with the names of thousands of communists, and other leftist activists and organizers. Thousands of these supporters of Qasim and his policies were soon dead in a rampage of mass murder carried out by the CIA's close friends in Iraq.
You disgusting Zionists! You are sick, evil, deranged, psychotic and delusional. The world has had enough of you quite rightly so why don't crawl away somewhere and die!
Its nice to see you're on board with Hitler's program. Do you think you're fooling anyone by calling 6 million Israeli Jews "Zionists"? You're obviously a disgusting bigot.
I didn't call all Israelis Zionists. Nice to see you are on board Hitler's programme sorry Lieberman's programme(the Israeli Hitler I do do get confused between the 2 evil madmen!).
If Hitler had asked Jews to swear an oath to a "German" state or even expelled German Jews, they wouldn't have called it "the Holocaust." Again, your comparisons are repulsive and ridiculous.
The Zionist Fuhrer Avigdor Lieberman has proposed a Fascist Loyalty oath that all Israeli citizens must sign up to recognizing Israel as a Jewish state. This is of course a thinly disguised plan to expel and get rid of the Arab population but it also means the Fuhrer can expel Leftists and anti-Zionist Israelis and basically anyone who disagrees with Fuhrer Lieberman.
Wow, you don't know what Fascism is. That's pretty sad for someone whose country was firebombed by the Nazis. Also, I'm PROUD to be a Zionist, and stick up for the Jews, who been helpless and oppressed by Europeans and Muslims for 1000 years.
Here's a good example of Zionist Fascism besides Fuhrer Lieberman:-
“Transfer of population as a solution to international disputes: Population exchanges between Greece and Turkey as a model for plans to solve the Jewish-Arab dispute in Palestine during the 1930s” by Yossi Katz, Department of Geography, Bar Ilan University, Ramat-Gan 2002.
Another example is a book called "They must go" by Rabbi Meir Kahane has a striking resemblance to another book called "Meine Kampf"!
"Wow, you don't know what Fascism is". A highly militarised, racist, expansionist, ethno-centric warmongering state is a Fascist state. Prussia in the 19th century or Germany in the 1940s certainly. Israel in 2010? You bet!
Again, your comparison is disgusting and offensive to all victims of the Holocaust and people who ACTUALLY suffered from fascism, like your own countrymen. Its obvious you think your argument is bullshit, and you think you can change opinions by repeating the same lie ad nauseum. But every time you do, decent people will refute you. Here's a tip: when people see that repeating buzzwords endlessly is your rhetorical strategy, they know YOU"RE FULL OF SHITE
You Zionists always arrogently claim you have the right to speak on behalf of the victims of the Holocaust and Fascism but you don't. Zionism was created as a racist colonial settler movement before Hitler was born. Marek Edelman, the last surviving leader of World War II's Warsaw Ghetto Uprising supported the Palestinian cause did you know that? If anyone has the right to speak on their behalf it is people like them not you!
That's a disgusting and dishonest accusation, since Zionism saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of Jews by breaking BRITISH law, which would have kept them in Europe to be slaughtered. You can dredge up holocaust survivors who oppose Israel, but the VAST majority support it. Zionism is the liberation movement of the Jewish people, which embraced many races. There was nothing colonial about it: it opposed the British colonizers who occupied Palestine. You know you're lying, why?
You have just prooved your complete ignorance. Without the Balfour Declaration Israel would not exist today which was basically Britain offering someone else's country to a foreign people. Besides without my country the Nazis would have succeeded in killing even more Jews. If Winston Churchill died in 1939 there was no one else to stop the Nazis. The Nazis would have succeeded in taking over Egypt, Palestine and the middle east. Only my country stopped them!
The Balfour Declaration was a piece of fucking paper. Jewish soldiers won the war in 1948, you fucking LIAR. and, you demented jew-hating piece of dogshit, America and the USSC won WWII. Your country was about to be devoured when we stepped in. You're acting like you like in North Korea or some other dictatorship that thinks its never lost a war. Grow the fuck up.
In 1936 the British put down the the Great Arab Revolt in which 10% of the Palestinian population was killed. The Balfour declaration allowed Zionist colonisation to eventually take control of the whole country. This means Israel is a colonial settler state.
Kind of like the USA is a "settler colonial state" and all of South America is comprised of "settler colonial states." Your propaganda is rendered absurd by comparing Israel to the rest of the world. Much of the world consists of states that began as colonies. Your propaganda is based on taking things out of context and distorting the tiny specks of history you rely on for your propaganda narrative
It does have a Constitution but yes your right it is not in one single document but has evolved over centuries. Magna Carta, Habeous Corpus, Bill of Rights and the Great Reform Act = Constitution.
And Israel, like the United States, inherited this jurisprudence from Britain. Its odd that a British citizen would try so hard to defame a legal system that so resembles his own, while not giving a shit about totalitarian shariah that enslaves women. I guess thats how much irrational hatred has warped your sick, Jew-obsessed mind.
Israel does not have a Constitution like the US or Britain. Take Habeas Corpus for example I take it you know what this is. Well it does not exist in Israel where anyone Arab or Jew can be arrested and held without charge for months on end. Newspapers can be censored as happened recently with Haaretz which had blank areas in its newspaper in the Uri Blau/Anat Kam case because of the Shin Bet. Is this a democracy?
(3) Israel has antidiscrimination law in employment, you're a LIAR
Its obvious that you, like the rest of your society, feels so bad about itself that it will cling to any delusional pseudo-moral crusade to forget about its dark past. Its really quite pathetic. Anyone who has been to Israel can see its like a Western country, while its neighbors are hellholes.
You are completely wrong on all 3 counts. Israel holds 10000 Palestinians the vast majority civilians some children under 16. These are political prisoners. In Israel you see job adverts stating only candidates with military service allowed meaning no Arabs. The JNF holds 13% of the land(nearly all stolen from Palestinan refugees and citizens by the way) but appoints 50% of commitess of the Israeli Land Authority which never leases land to Arabs.
(1) Arabs serve in the military and get those jobs, you fucking LIAR
(2) There were never "Palestinian Citizens", and, as far as land is concerned, many many many times more was stolen from Jews by Arabs, and for some reason you don't care, why is that? Because you're a Jew-hating bigot. The amount of land JNF holds is miniscule, and you know it. Its disgusting and cynical to suggesting that trying to help victims of the world's world genocide is racist.
Very, very few Arabs serve in the military mostly Druze and Bedouin. Palestine was a country under British colonial rule from the 1920s. There was Palestinian money, Palestinian passports and Palestinian citizenship long before Israel was created. Most Jews from Arab countries left voluntarliy as Avi Shalim an Iraqi Jew and historian has admitted. In any case Israel was created in 1948 in which case the Holocaust and the War were over by then.
Any Arab may serve, and they do. Thank you for conceding you LIED. Arab Jews left voluntarily the same way many Palestinians did: the wanted to get out before they were KILLED. Iraqi Nazis instigated pograms, Libya, Egypt, and Tunisia all legally expelled their Jews. Your lies don't stand up for two long when one looks at the mountains of historical evidence demonstrating conclusively that Jews were expelled and robbed of their land. people don't give up billions for free, LIAR
Even if thats true, it doesn't explain their leaving. EVEN SHLAIM acknowledges that. And thats a different argument from the one you made before, you FUCKING LIAR. I REFUTE every LIE you make, and you keep giving me new ones. Its TOO EASY.
In any case the Zionists started the conflict not the Arabs. I think you will find that I am right the Zionists did plant bombs in synagogues in Iraq so who are the Nazis then? How were Iraqi Jews to know the bombing of synagogues was actually by Jews and not Arabs? When these Arab Jews went to Israel they were treated like scum by Ashkenazis many were sprayed with DDT, their children were kidnapped and told that they had "died" and given to Ashkenazi families.
Even if the bombings had never occured the Jews all would have fled. There were plenty of Arab pogroms, and the Iraqi government will importing Nazi ideology. Since you're a LIAR, you exaggerate the significance of the false flag bombs. 100,000+ people don't abandon all their property because of a few bombs. It takes a program of ethnic cleansing.
FYI: Arab Jews are happy to live in Israel, and would laugh at the idea of living under Muslim oppression as their ancestors did.
What do you with a serial killer that keeps killing people. The serial killer develops a bloodlust and becomes addicted to killing and takes greater and greater risks and kills more and more people. Such a Jack the Ripper person must be arrested as soon as possible. But what if a state is like this, well there is Israel, a Jack the Ripper state. They have butchered 1500 people in Gaza it could be 15000 people next. This evil state must be stopped.
I suggest you are mentally ill. Have you ever seen a psychiatrist? Zionism is a mental illness. Zionists for some reason believe hijacking ships in the high seas is not piracy, incinerating people with white phosphorous at temperatures of 1500C is not a war crime, duplicating passports is not forgery and keeping millions of people under the rule of the gun with no human and political rights is OK.You are a sick, evil, inhuman monster just like all extremist Zionists are.
Zionism is self-preservation. You're the one imagining things. The blockade is legal, nobody was "incinerated" by white phosphorus, thats another LIE. EVERY country with a spy agency creates false passports, and Palestinians have more human and political rights than Jordanians, Syrians, Saudis, black Sudanese, etc.
Were you raised by a family that hates Israel? What explains your obsession? You living in BRITAIN! Why do you try so extremely hard to hate a country so far away from you that is the only civilized place in a sea of chauvanistic Muslim/Arab natonalism and dictatorship. Do you know about Darfur? Do you know about Kurds in Turkey? Do you know about the ethnic cleansing of Christians going on NOW? Your obsession with Israel cannot be explained rationally
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you gentiles are Pathetic Always take some jew and make him god or Messiah just like the jesus and kerl marx and know this noam chomsky did you ever wondering why is this all your biggst gods and messiah and your intellectuals from right and left are jewish and you wonder how we the jews call are self the chosen people dont diss this
comment in 100 yreas from know your kids will things that holly histroy just like your Fathers Though't even the arebs belive in a jewish idea of god
ehudnold9 6 months ago
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Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum, Rebbe of Satmar, Hungary, later rabbi of Palestine
רבי יואל טייטלבוים זצ"ל אדמו"ר ואב" ד סאטמאר
If we were to put all the sins of this generation and all the transgressions committed in the entire world on one side of a scale, and the Zionist state on the other side, it would outweigh everything, for it is the poisonous source of the worst defilement, the worst cause of damage in the entire world, and they are ones who defile the entire world
shadowofears 6 months ago
Israel is just like South Africa, except the 18% HIV infection rate.
rachelgolem 10 months ago
Apartheid State? Facts about Arabs living in Israel:
- 1.4 million Arab-Israelis live within Israel
- there are 5 official Arab parties
- Arab-Israelis make up 20 percent of the total population
- Arabic is an official language and equal footing with Hebrew
- Arabs have held as many as 12 of 120 seats in the Israeli parliament
- all Arab municipalities receive government funding for education and infrastructure.
mnc17 11 months ago
@mnc17 If Israel was such a righteous state, why would there be so many problem? Now you can blame hamas and the whole world but the fact is Israel is the problem. Israel is a dowm fall for the whole world
gobuddyboy 10 months ago
@gobuddyboy So I guess if someone is beating his wife there must be something wrong with her - otherwise, why would he beating her all the time
erablum2 8 months ago
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The ultimate proof of Israel as a bankrupt culture is when you see Israeli men throwing molotov cocktails at each other in public squares, to protest their current government.
rachelgolem 1 year ago
We were arguing about the truth of the proposition that "Hamas wants to improve conditions for Palestinians." You made the statement, asserting it to be true. I argued that it was false, and that your making it demonstrated a pro-Hamas bias.
Do you stand by this assertion or not?
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
(3) Third response is meant to discount your statement (Hamas wants better conditions for Palestinian people) into a truism, that is "FUCKING OBVIOUS", according to your understanding of "want."You've watered down your original point so much, I fail to see why you made it all. You've rendered your point (the distinction between being pro-Hamas and pro-Palestinian) into a truism, and I don't think you would have bothered making your original assertion if this is all you really meant to say.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
(1) In your first response, you again dodge the substance of my argument by suggesting you've already made your point. Actually, you haven't defended your semantics, and it wouldn't be repetitive to do so. This isn't a tangent, its about how allegedly humanitarian people like you are insidiously sympathetic to Hamas.
(2) Second response, you lie about the cause of the argument. You invoked Hamas. Read your second post on the thread. Also, I nowhere assume pro-Palestinian people are pro-Hamas.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
Earlier you chose to identify Hamas as a group that wants better conditions, which now you attempt to qualify by diluting the assertion into a triviality. Anyone wants everything for everybody as long as it costs no one anything. Is that really your point? If that's your point, you might as well have substituted "Netanyahu" for "Hamas." But I don't think you would have. Now you're just playing dishonest word games, instead of admitting you meant to flatter Hamas.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 This is why I didn't bother trying to explain myself earlier. It was an absolute waste of my time. You continue to believe what you want and continue to dictate my own beliefs to me. I used Hamas ONLY because you accuse anyone who supports Palestine of Hamas' crimes. I was pointing out how ridiculous this it because, like most Palestinian supporters, I do not support Hamas. I hate how simply using that one word has made you go off on this tangent. It is unbelievably frustrating.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 The reason that I drew the connection was because I was extrapolating YOUR position. Why else would you assume that to be pro-Palestinian is pro-Hamas unless you saw some inherent connection? Like most people here, I would prefer to not bring up Hamas because they do not represent my political views. YOU invoked them, by drawing up a comparison. I was trying to show how different my political beliefs were from them by drawing on a single, insignificant shared belief...
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 ...that is shared by people all over the world, from all nationalities. Who does not want a better state of affairs for the Palestinian people? Racists and bigots. You claim that it is a 'weak' definition of the word 'want' - WELL THAT IS FUCKING OBVIOUS. My whole argument was the inherent weakness of this connection that YOU ARE DRAWING.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
So frankly I think this entire backtracking approach you're taking is dishonest, since otherwise you made a pointless statement to begin with.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 You are unbelievable. I do not believe I could have made this any clearer and yet you are still tap-dancing around it. Either you are being extremely dishonest, creating this strawman argument and asking me to defend myself against it, or you are too blinded by your own political beliefs to think openly about this topic.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 I keep re-reading what I've written and I do not understand how you have constructed this whole tangent. I also can not believe that I was trying to reason with you regarding it. It seems absolutely crazy. You are dictating a belief I do not hold and requesting an explanation of it. When I explain I do not hold it, you say I don't believe you. What is the point of arguing over this?
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
Well, I guess you don't stand behind it. Thank you for conceding the point. Hamas doesn't want better conditions for Gazans. If it did, it would take the extremely simple step of recognizing Israel's international border with Gaza.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
Again, you're playing semantic games with the word "want." In the sense that "if they (Hamas) were offered a method to improve the situation of the Palestinians without making any ideological concessions, they would take it", I totally agree that Hamas "wants" better conditions. But your definition of "want" is so weak as to be self-evident. According to you, I could truthfully say Israel "wants" better conditions for Palestinians as long it doesn't compromise its own security.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
You are such a retard. I DO NOT LIKE HAMAS. This whole discussion was hijacked by your insistence that I do. I said that Hamas wants a better state of affairs for the Palestinian people as a side point to illustrate YOUR unfair connection between being pro-Israeli and pro-terrorist. You replied, that they care more about ideology than Palestinian well-being and I agreed with you. IT STRENGTHENS MY ARGUMENT. There is a bigger divide between supporters of Palestinians and those of Hamas.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
I'm sorry, you pathetic limey snob, but the sun has set. I've demonstrated your pro-Hamas bias, and you've not responded to the substance of my argument. You haven't even bothered to defend your "opinion" that Hamas cares about its subjects. When you state something that isn't true, it demonstrates bias, it doesn't matter what the content of the claim is. Do you really not understand this? Pol pot was a nice guy: sorry, that's just my opinion, I don't have a pro-Khmer Rouge bias.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
There is no G-d but Marx and Chomsky is his messenger!!!!!
rachelgolem 1 year ago
"I don't support Bush, but I do support his concern for the poor black people of New Orleans." Not true statement about bay guy=bias in favor of bad guy. GET IT?
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
(2) You were trying to distinguish support for Palestinian welfare from support for militancy. Ok, they can be distinguished. Suggesting that Hamas cares about Palestinian welfare in the process of making that distinction reveals a pro-Hamas bias because its not true, and not necessary to make your point. What if I said, "I didn't support Bush, but I supported his concern for Iraqi civilians." This reveals a pro-Bush bias because the substance of my distinction contains an untruth. GET IT?
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
You're engaging in semantics. It would be meaningless to say Hamas "wants peace", but that it simply prioritizes peace below waging an existential war against a country of millions (it has, absurdly, suggested this). Your counterintuitive and, frankly, delusional suggestion that Hamas wants better conditions for Gazans is rendered meaningless by your definition of "want": if Hamas doesn't want better conditions enough to simply respect Oslo, it doesn't want them in any reasonable sense.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
Wow you're pretty thick. The CIA-backed leader first imprisoned Saddam, and then later Saddam overthrew his friend, who had overthrown the CIA-backed leader. Nothing you've posted supports your original assertion that the US brought Saddam Hussein to power, especially since Saddam came to power in the late 1970's. You distort history to reflect your reactionary anti-American nonsense.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
n 1963, the United States backed a coup against the government of Iraq headed by General Abdul Karim Qassim, who five years earlier had deposed the Western-allied Iraqi monarchy.The Baathist used lists of people provided by the U.S. to carry out a bloodbath, systematically murdering untold numbers of Iraq's educated elite—killings in which Saddam Hussein himself participated. The CIA brought the Baathists to power enabling Saddam to eventually rule Iraq. Read history idiot!
petersz98 1 year ago
I've conflated nothing. You can't separate Hamas' less odious policies from its fascistic fantasy of totalitarian domination. If you think you can parse these things, you're not operating in the real world.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 "We regarded it as a great victory". Iraqi participants later confirmed American involvement. We came to power on a CIA train, admitted Ali Saleh Sa'adi, the Baath Party secretary general who was about to institute an unprecedented reign of terror. CIA assistance included coordination of the coup plotters inside the U.S. embassy in Baghdad as well as a radio station in Kuwait and solicitation of advice from around the Middle East on who on the left should be eliminated.
petersz98 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Germany once considered itself the right to define itself as an "Aryan" state, Jews, Gypsys and disabled people violated this right as well as people who opposed Adolf Hitler.
Israel considers itself the right to define itself as a "Jewish" state Arabs and non-Jews violate this right as well as those who oppose Avigdor Lieberman.
Zionism = Jewish Fascism
Israel = Racist state
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
By your logic, France is also Fascist and racist since it defines itself as the state of the French nation. Your analogy is false, twisted, and dishonest. Israel is the state of the Jewish people, which embraces Jews of all colors, who've been oppressed and massacred all over the world for centuries. It takes a perverse mind to believe this is a racist enterprise.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
You really are a moron! You need a brain transplant. I will spell it out to you in idiot language. Everybody in France is French, wether you are Black, White, Jewish, Christian Muslim etc. In Israel depending on where Israel's borders are(doesn't have any as Ben Gurion or Sharon said!) 20% to over 50% are NOT JEWISH so the state does not belong to them just like South Africa did not belong to people who were not White when it was an Apartheid state. IDIOT!
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Well, they have the same rights (voting, public education, universal healthcare etc.) so really the country does 'belong' to them in any meaningful sense. By your logic, Kurds in Turkey are living under an apartheid state, as are Assyrians in Iraq, East Indians in many African countries and in the Arab world, etc. There are many countries with a national identity that protects rights for non-national minorities. Your perspective is twisted and hysterically dishonest.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
I know that you IDIOT but none of these countries claim to be a DEMOCRACY! A democracy you idiot is where everyone is equal and can vote freely. In the Soviet Union everyone could vote but it was not a democracy. In South Africa Coloureds and Indians had the vote Blacks didn't but Whites had supremacy over everyone else. In Israel Israel Arabs have the vote but are not Nationals Jerusalemite Palestinians have residency only the rest are stateless.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Well Switzerland does claim to be (and is) a democracy. I can give you other examples of democratic countries with hereditary citizenship laws (even for people not born domestically). Israeli Arabs vote and are nationals. It sounds like you're losing grip on reality. Stateless Palestinians live on land that isn't recognized to be part of Israel under international law, so I don't see how they fit into an argument about Israeli Arabs
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
You are such an idiot. Israeli Arabs are not Nationals of Israel because there is no such thing as Israeli nationality. The Israeli Supreme Court refuses to recognize it. There is Jewish Nationality, and over a 100 other Nationalities Israel recognises but not Israeli Nationality.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
"national" is a synonym for "citizen", and the Israeli Supreme Court recognizes such a thing. There are Arab-Israelis who self-identify as "Druze Israelis" and "Christian Israelis", even as "Muslim Israelis". You'll have to clarify what you mean by "nationality", because pretty much any understanding of word means there are "Israeli" nationals who are not Jewish.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Israel is the only country in the world which is not the state of its citizens. It is the only country in the world in which citizenship and nationality are not the same. A British citizen has British nationality wether he is White, Black, Jewish, Christian or Muslim. In Israel Nationality is defined in ethnic terms not citizenship terms. Just like in South Africa under Apartheid there were no South Africans only White, Coloureds and Indians.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
You just keep lying, repeating the same tired untruths, which aren't even coherent. Israeli gives all its citizens equal rights, so it is a "state of all its citizens" as much as France, England, or any other state with majority and minorities cultures is. Citizenship and nationality are by definition the same thing...have you looked this up yet?
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@petersz98
Its nice when you abandon your ridiculous arguments are make new ones, because they're so refreshingly easy to demolish. Keep 'em coming
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
I don't know if you no Hebrew but if you look at an Israeli passport it clearly says that the person on the passport has Israeli citizenship but does not mention Israeli nationality. Why do you think that is?
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
The Passport says that because being a citizen and being a national mean the same thing. That applies to all passports for any country. You seem to be confused about what nationality is. Care to clarify your definition of this word?
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@petersz98
You seem to think that people who don't identify with the national symbols and dominant culture of their country are suffering from "apartheid." But this is total nonsense. Are urdu-speaking pakistani muslim citizens of England suffering from "apartheid" because there is a cross on the English flag and their sovereign queen is also the head of the state religion? Your view of Israel is rendered absurd by comparison to other countries.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@petersz98
Unless you're arguing that all nationalism is racist, then your argument is nonsense. If you believed that, then you'd have to condemn dozens of other countries, including all the Arab ones.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 You are still conflating them. Are you honestly suggesting that it is impossible to either criticize Israel or sympathize with the Palestinians and NOT believe in creating a totalitarian state? Every comment I've read of yours has implied this. If someone tells you that the Palestinians are being brutalized, that does not mean that they are anti-west, support Muslim fundamentalism or wish to create a totalitarian state.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
I agree entirely with your last two posts, and nothing I've said suggests I would disagree with them. But you spoke favorably of Hamas before. You're changing your tune.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 I did not speak favourably of Hamas. I stated that Hamas and Palestinian sympathisers share only one belief necessarily: better conditions for the Palestinians. You went on to comment that Hamas prioritize their ideology ahead 0of the people`s condition. This may be true, but it does not mean that they do not want better conditions for the Palestinians. If anything, this difference in prioritization supports what I was saying further. It is incorrect to confuse them.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
Further, your suggestion that you weren't speaking favorably of Hamas is DISHONEST. Its a shame you don't live in the USA, because here, flimsy, apologies for death-worshiping barbarians are ridiculed. You were obviously
sticking up for Hamas' non-existent humanitarian credentials. There was no other reason to mention them by name. I'm sorry your society is morally rotting from the inside, and you can't tell up from down. I really am. Don't take it out on the Jews.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 I see you are a brick wall of ignorance, deceit and bigotry. I've shown you precisely where you are wrong repeatedly, and yet you continue to twist my position. Re-read my comments if you have difficulty understanding them. I feel cheated of my time: after the long description I gave, the only word you read was 'HAMAS'. The underlying point was wasted. Maybe you are not intellectually equipped to understand it, maybe you are being obtuse.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86 You have a pitiable, yet infuriating mental deficiency regarding this issue. In your skewed version of reality, any support of the Palestinian people is automatically equated as support for Hamas and terrorism. Due to this, you are unable to be objective, empathetic or rational. You displace your irrationality and bigoted views on to others, when -if you were capable- rectifying this one logical error would undoubtedly make your position more coherent.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
Comment removed
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
(1) You didn't respond to the substance of my last post, so who is being obtuse and wasting the other's time? I said nowhere that support of Palestinians is equated with support for Hamas. My insults are very well-substantiated, since you still seem unable to understand how your absurd sympathy for anti-Western values manifests itself in what you believe is an impartial, valid argument. Is what I'm saying really too nuanced for you to understand? Consider the following:
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
Thank you for conceding. I hope my explaining your pro-Hamas bias didn't come as too much of a shock to you. It really doesn't help your case to attempt to repair a shoddy argument with conceit and condescending nonsense, especially when you're too much of a masochistic self-hating liberal to understand your own malady. If you were actually a liberal, like me, you'd be able to distinguish between liberal values and fascism.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 Re-read what I've said. I'm not going to pointlessly repeat myself. If you have a problem distinguishing between your own bias and the opinions of others, then this is an issue that you'll have to deal with on your own. You have a laughablely high opinion of yourself. It was very gracious of you to accept a concession I never made. Go and give yourself a big pat on the back for being such a clever little boy!
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
If you have a problem distinguishing between my having a high opinion of myself and my having a low opinion of Islamist-loving apologist liars, then perhaps you should check your GPS. You're in GB, not Egypt.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 Now, in terms of your Bush analogy - it was flawed. A better example is if you were to say that Bush does not care about Americans or the US. He is American and he lives and represents America. Is he selfish? Does he make poor and often selfish political decisions? Does he often prioritize other things in front of the well-being of Americans? Yes - but he does still want a better US. Do you really think Hamas' only objective is the destruction of Israel?
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86 Let me repeat my original point that you skipped over by creating this tangent. Just because two people may share a single belief, does not mean that they have the same belief system. I agree that Hamas are letting their ideological hatred, and sense of grievance towards Israel take priority to anything else.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86 This could indicate that they care little about the suffering, but if they were offered a method to improve the situation of the Palestinians without making any ideological concessions, they would take it. The amount that they want an improvement is inconsequential to my argument. If they have any inclination, it is enough. That is way this point was so inconsequential. And yet you jumped on it. Maybe you should address your own bias against Muslims.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86 @Englishdosser86 This could indicate that they care little about the suffering, but if they were offered a method to improve the situation of the Palestinians without making any ideological concessions, they would take it. The amount that they want an improvement is inconsequential to my argument. If they have any inclination, it is enough. That is way this point was so inconsequential. And yet you jumped on it. Maybe you should address your pro-Israel bias first.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 Do not expect me spoon-feed when I have already been clear. Your insults are meaningless and unsubstantiated. It's a shame you don't live in gaza, so that you can see past your own blinkered vision.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
The leading rejectionist Palestinian movement (Hamas) claims a RELIGIOUS right to establish a totalitarian state in Palestine. The are not liberal, secular democrats fighting for human rights. They are fighting for Jewish enslavement.
IFE seeks to establish the same totalitarian government in Europe. If you're not a fascist Islamist, its hard to see how you could support Hamas and not IFE, since they have the same ideological goalsThis is where your blind hatred of Israel (hypocrisy) comes in.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 I do not have a blind hatred of Israel. The fact that you are claiming that I do, illustrates that you are either a lier or deluded. I do believe that its creation was rushed, ill thought out and has resulted in generations of unresolved unhappiness for the Palestinian people.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
Comment removed
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 You've also seemed to conflate a certain political objective with the complete agenda of a political party that shares that objective. In other words, because a person may want humane living conditions for the Palestinian people (a belief shared by Hamas) it does not mean that they subscribe to all the views of Hamas. To simply lump all of them together is a gross mistake and encourages a completely one-sided perspective on the matter.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
Comment removed
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
You've got it entirely backwards mate. Hamas doesn't want humane living conditions for Palestinians (which they already have, contrary to the disinformation about a "humanitarian crisis" in Gaza. Gazans are exporting food to Egypt as we speak). To completely open the Gaza strip, all Hamas needs to do is recognize Israel (originally, a predicate condition for Palestinian elections according to treaty, the strongest form of international law).
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
Hamas has prioritized the material welfare of its people BELOW its ideological goals, which involve either massacring, expelling, or enslaving 6 millions Israeli Jews under a totalitarian theocracy. Your position is counterintuitive: Hamas, on its own, can recognize Oslo, end rocket attacks, and leave Israelis alone without compromising Gaza's security. Israel, on the other hand, cannot give freedom to Gaza without compromising its own security. So why ask for the latter?
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 For the sake of argument, I'll agree with you. That still does not invalidate what I've already said. The vast majority of people that support Palestinians and criticize Israel do not necessarily (or in fact, in reality) support Hamas' agenda completely. To conflate sympathising with the Palestinian condition and the political objectives of Hamas is a gross oversimplification. It is fallacious to equate anti-Israeli sentiments to Muslim fundamentalism or ideology.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
You didn't prove shit. Ask Palestinians whether they think they are a "race." They don't think so. They think they are a nation. Its obvious that, first, you arrive at the conclusion that Israel is racist, and then work backwards to justify your propaganda. Palestinians consider themselves Arabs, and certainly not a distinct race. Not even your Jew-hating friends in the Arab world would agree with you on this point, liar.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 The Jews aren't a race either. You have the white European Jews, the brown Arab Jews and the black African Jews. No relationship between them. Their religious beliefs vary wildly. Hell, many are atheistic. The Palestinians are much more a homogenous race than the Jews.
MegaLotusEater 1 year ago
@MegaLotusEater
So what? Modern national identity isn't based on the idea of race. You seem to be suggesting that Palestinians have political rights based on the homogeneity of their "race", which is fascistic and racist in itself. You're making the same argument the Nazis made to justify the Third Reich, but you're don't it on behalf of Palestinians. I don't think Palestinians would appreciate that too much.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 Just a moment ago you (rather maturely) called me a moron for describing the Palestinians as a race. Now you complain when the mirror argument is made. You're right: race is irrelevant, so why did you make it an issue in the first place? Let's get back to the real issue: the brutalisation of the Palestinian people by the Zionist regime
MegaLotusEater 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
"Modern national identity isn't based on the idea of race". You have said one thing that is right! It is only in insane racist states like Germany in the 1930s that are obsessed with racial purity. Or in Israel, you are only Jewish if your Mother was Jewish so Jewish identity is based on heredity which is racist based.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Well, thats not true, since converts can and do become citizens. But even if it was, the citizenship law of Switzerland is hereditary, as are many rich Arab countries. You've still failed to distinguish Israel from other normal countries.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Jews do not have a common origin they come from a 100 countries all over the world. Ethnic Swiss people have a common origin they come from Switzerland. There is only one Switzerland not a 100 Switzerlands. Only 10000 people convert to Judaism every year so very few of them end up going to Israel on its bogus "right of return". Even then they would have to approved by the Chief Rabbinate that they are "Jewish" enough.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Well the Swiss do not all have a common origin, which might you have figured out from the fact they have 4 official languages. More important, you just made the argument that hereditary citizenship law is ok if applied to an ethnically homogenous country, but that wouldn't be any less racist than such a law applying in a diverse country. You're not making sense, which is probably a symptom of irrational Israel-hatred.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
The Swiss do have a common origin because Switzerland is a country with a geographically defined area and records going back centuries prooving people came from there so it is possible to trace ancestors who were once Swiss. But it is extremely difficult to proove a Jewish person had ancestors who once lived in Palestine as far back as 2000 years ago so the "law of return" based on hereditry is a sham.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Even if that's all true (its not), that's a different point from the one you made before, which is that hereditary citizenship laws are inherently racist. You're backing away from your first argument and actually making a worse one: that people should be entitled to citizenship based on their pedigree going back many generations. That is an extremely racist idea.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@petersz98
Its really twisted that you invert a policy created to protect Jewish people from the worse racism that has ever existed into something racist itself.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
Anyone who visits Israel and sees how integrated a society it is will automatically feel foolish for even considering the hateful, vitriolic, malicious propaganda spewed by delusional idiots like you.
Britain has the BNP, France has Le Pen, etc...the "population transfer" idea has no real currency in Israel, and you know it. Even Netanyahu treats the idea like a joke. Its a fringe idea, and NOBODY believes it would ever be implemented. It is politically impossible. Your lies are still rubbish.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
Is it Noam chomsky the famous male prostitute?
0xFFF0 1 year ago
its so easy fighting against israel when the real lobbyists are saudi arabia, lebanon, iran, kuwait, dubai, sudan, libya, iraq
drawmeafatwa 1 year ago
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." Menachem Begin, former Prime Minister of Israel
sssssjjjj1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live.
— PLO spokesman Mahmud Abbas (Abu Mazen),
Falastin a-Thaura, March 1976
cmto3 1 year ago
Thousands of Israelis who want peace describe Israel as an Apartheid state.
When you have proven liars like Mark Regev, Tzipi Livni and other right-wing lunatics saying it is not that the question should be how bad is Israeli Apartheid not whether it is an Apartheid state.
Thank you.
NEKO2BOT 1 year ago
Imagine Hamas entering Israel, killing over 1,200 civilians and injureing 5,000 people in 22 days? What would be your reaction? What would be the reaction of the world? Forget realpolitik. Let's talk about reality!
raydar878 2 years ago 13
@raydar878
In reality we have barrier walls and roadblocks around Gaza and parts of the west bank, to prevent such things from happening.
SDK2584 2 years ago
@SDK2584
Is that because zionsm built a state at the expense of paletinian land? Is that because people were expelled from their homes? Or is it because the state of israel of only for jews? a supremacist state in other words? what do you think was going to ho happen? Complete and understandable blowback to rogue-state like neo-colonilasm.
raydar878 2 years ago
The causes for this situation are quite complicated and it is hard to really discuss it here on youtube. Your statements have some truth to them but if you look at it the way u said- "Forget realpolitik", then the barriers and roadblocks should also be understandable, since they save lives. for a fact. cuz it is much harder to carry out suicide bombings in to the Israeli rear. And if it protects me and my family, then I'm all for it. wouldnt u be?
SDK2584 2 years ago
@raydar878
They would if they could. Acutally, they'd kill millions of Israelis Jews if they could. That's why Israel defends itself against them. You people don't seem to give a shit about Jewish lives. Thats interesting
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 Has not the Zionist State of Supremacist Israel grown at the expense of historic Palestine? Yes, Israel and every other exising nation should defend itself. But how about the Palestinians defending themselves against not only more loss of land but the chance of having their own independent state? Zionist Jews once coveted a land of their own. And due to the British, aquired much of Palestine. Do not the Palestinians deserve to have a state they can call their own?
raydar878 1 year ago
@raydar878
haha, yeah, Israel is really "Supremacist" because it insists on being a country for a specific culture. I guess Great Britain should take all those crosses off of its flag and become a country "for all of its citizens." Darn those supremacist British people who insist on defining their country using a specific culture. How racist of them. But nevermind Saudi Arabia or Iran who are actually totalitarian fascist countries without freedom of anything
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 specific culture? more like specific religion, hence, supremacist. I can go to Great Britain, Saudi Arabia and Iran and become either a resident or citizen. You can't since your Zionist state is illegal according to the Torah and an illegally occupying force since 1948. And no one can become a citizen of Israel unless they are or become Jewish. And if it were not forunder the British gun and Lord Belfour, you would not be living in historic Palestine called Israel.
raydar878 1 year ago
@raydar878
Oh, you think you can be a Christian and go to Saudi Arabia or Iran and become a citizen without converting to Islam? Wow, you're a fucking idiot. Of course you can't. You think you can move to France and become a citizen without learning French? Can't do that either. I guess France is a French-supremacist country. They are so "illegal." You really like that word even though you don't know what the fuck it means
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 : Why is it that whenever someone criticises Israeli policy, the Israeli will defend himself by saying, "Yes, but Arab countries are even worse!" It's like saying, "Please don't look at our sins. Look at the sins of others, thank you very much." Yes Iran and Saudi have piece of shit governments. But so does Israel. Stop deflecting the issue.
MegaLotusEater 1 year ago
@MegaLotusEater
Ok, but when the sins of only one person are examined, the meaning of "sin" disappears. Its a proportionality issue. Arab sins don't absolve Israel, but the extent to which Israel is singled out is absurd to the point that criticizing politicizes and devalues human rights discourse. Human rights are about standards; Israel is always held to a higher standard. This is bad for human rights, not good, because everyone knows it is political, and nobody cares.
rihoberman 1 year ago
@rihoberman There are a number of reasons why Israel's crimes gets more attention than other countries: It receives massive aid and support from the USA superpower, it has broken more UN resolutions than most other countries, it has the 4th most powerful military on the planet, it is destabilising the most important region on the planet, it has been involved in an unusually high number of wars, and of course the profound Biblical and religious interest that surrounds the region and its peoples.
MegaLotusEater 1 year ago
@rihoberman But all of that is irrelevant to my earlier point: it is not an argument to say "pick on other people's sins. Not mine." If you've committed wrong, the fact that others may or may have not done worse is beside the point.
MegaLotusEater 1 year ago
@MegaLotusEater
A justice system that prosecutes one ethnic group and none other is corrupt beyond repair, and has no legitimacy. Arab women are treated like Americans treated black slaves in 1840 (and Arabs still do). Kurds, Assyrians, and Christians are expelled from their homes in the MILLIONS. Darfurians are wiped off of the earth. Fewer than 7000 Palestinians (including noncombatants) have died in conflict since 2000, and you call it a genocide when their population is exploding?
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
You disgusting Israel-haters are trying to feed the world your lies and disinformation. If, God forbid, you are ever taken seriously, your nonsense will be exposed and rot to nothing in the sunlight of public scrutiny. There's no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, Palestinians are growing in number and wealth. You can't hide the real world.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 The world will always hate Israel. Hell, even a lot of jews hate Israel. Just remember that.
MegaLotusEater 1 year ago
@MegaLotusEater
Ouchy. Actually, you're still full of shit. The civilized world, also called "the west", likes Israel. I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that a disgusting Jew-hater like you doesn't speak for the civilized world.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
The "civilised world" as you call it does not like the Fascist, Nazi, Racist, Apartheid state of Israel. Any visit to a campus anywhere in the western world would reveal that young people regard the Zionazi abomination to be amongst the darkest regimes in history alongside the Third Reich, Imperial Japan, Jim Crow Alabama, Stalinist Russia and Apartheid South Africa. The evil of Zionism must be removed from the world as has been done against Fascism, Nazism and Communism.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
The more ridiculous slurs you throw at Israel the more desperate you look. The Arab Nationalists and Muslim Facists at your uni don't represent the Western World I'm afraid. Israels universities have strong academic relationships all over the world. You're an ignorant, lying twat.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@petersz98
You've got a nice list going there. I suppose Israel is also "just like" the Empire from Star Wars and the Orks of Mordor.
Its odd, actually, that you left the UK off your list of baddies, since your fucking country murdered many more people than two of the regimes you've included. Maybe instead of washing your own guilt with lies and nonsense about Jews, you should own up to your own disgusting and shameful history.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
I agree the UK has carried out many crimes as a colonial power such as the transatantic slave trade, extermination of natives etc, but I am willing to admit it although most of it happened before I was born but what about your country you have a very, very, very long list of crimes you have committed:- slavery genocide of native people, Vietnam etc. Now let us hear you own up to them! Repentence is good for the sinner!
petersz98 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 Dont get the governments confused with the people of the world. Yes, a lot of governments support Israel because they consider it to be in their state's economic and or ideological interests. But you ask people on the streets across the globe, you're going to get a very different response. American people are generally a lot more sympathetic to Israel, I'll grant you that - that's in part to do with the deranged religious rapture type beliefs of 25% of Americans.
MegaLotusEater 1 year ago
@MegaLotusEater
You're still lying, and you've no idea what you're talking about. Americans sympathize with Israel because they like democracies and hate dictatorships filled with America-hating Muslim Fascists. Its pretty sad that you decide to sympathize with the people who want to destroy Britain. Maybe you're part of the fifth column, who knows.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Israel isn't a democracy. Zionism is incompatible with democracy. Ask yourself why has the Zionist entity failed to produce a Constitution even though it promised to produce on in order to become a UN member? Would the USA be a democracy if it abolished its Constitution and defined itself as a White, Christian state? Of course not! Stupid Zionist.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
BRITAIN doesn't have a written Constitution you imbecile. Zionism is a form of nationalism that embraces far more skin colors than does French Nationalism, English Nationalism, Russian Nationalism, and many others. Your world view is laughable ignorant and distorted.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Britain does have a Constitution in fact the USA Constitution is based on the British Constitution. The Bill of Rights? Based on the English of Rights a century older the right to free speech and Habeous Corpus. Ever heard of Magna Carta? Where do you think that came from a dummy like you probably thought it was from the Founding Fathers!
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Israel's courts uphold liberal, western constitutional rights without a written constitution, like BRITAIN. Its precisely my point that it doesn't need a written constitution to do this.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Israel's courts do not uphold liberal, western constitutional rights. For example Israel has no laws that forbid racial or religous descrimination in employment. You are talking bullshit. In Israel people of different religions aren't even allowed to get married! 95% of the land is designated for Jews only. What kind of moron are you!
petersz98 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 I don't side with Muslims. I'm an atheist and I dislike Islam as much as I dislike Christianity and Judaism. They're all silly myths. I side with the oppressed. That's why I side with Palestinians. Most moral and informed human beings around the globe sympathise with the Palestinians.
And 4 your info, the Gazans and people of the West Bank arent trying to destroy my country, last time I checked. Unless of course youre lumping ALL muslims together, which would make you a racist.
MegaLotusEater 1 year ago
@MegaLotusEater
Islam isn't a race you imbecile
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 Generalised prejudice against the Palestinian race, some of whom are Christian, still makes you a racist. I'm glad that is the only part of what I said that you could think up any coherent response to.
MegaLotusEater 1 year ago
@MegaLotusEater
There's no such thing as a Palestinian "race" you moron, not even Palestinian nationalists believe that
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 Here's a definition of 'race': 'A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution'.
I love how you attempt to insult me in every comment. It makes you seem even more retarded when I prove you wrong.
MegaLotusEater 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 I agree with you LearnedHand2008. Although, racism does apply, I think the best term for you would be a 'bigot', which refers more explicitly to your prejudiced beliefs based upon religion.
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
I didn't say anything about Islam, you liar. And if you think Hamas represents Islam, then you're the bigot, not me.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Do you believe hijacking ships in international waters, abducting and killing its passengers and looting the ship's cargo is piracy? Do you think Pirate Long John Benjamin Netanyahu the man responsibe for hijacking the Marvi Marmara should be made to walk the plank or be given 50 lashes? Why is it you do not believe incinerating unarmed civilians with white phosphorous at temperatues of 1500C(refer to Goldstone Report) is not a war crime? Is Israel the Fourth Reich?
petersz98 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 Either you're being beligerent or you're simply thick. Here:
'Its pretty sad that you decide to sympathize with the people who want to destroy Britain.'
Who, exactly, are you referring to by 'the people' and when did they attempt to destroy Britain? The people of the West Bank?
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
They are Islamists, like the IFE, who are trying to infiltrate and subvert mainstream British parties. Watch dispatches, and listen to the non-Islamist muslims living in Britain you are working hard to expose and expel these people from public life.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 So...how does this relate to the Palestinians and Israel?
Englishdosser86 1 year ago
@Englishdosser86
In the original context of the comment you quoted, I didn't draw a relationship to Israel/Palestine; I was attacking a dysfunctional, self-hating, anti-Western perspective in general. But there is a relationship:
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008 It is curious that you should say that Americans sympathise with democracies and hate dictatorships, when the US has implanted an impressive amount of brutal, dictatorial regimes around the world, including Suddam Hussein. In some cases, this has involved funding the over-throw of democratically elected governments. What a curious divide between the actions of the government and the beliefs of the people.
MegaLotusEater 1 year ago
@MegaLotusEater
The US didn't "implant" Saddam, he took power himself. Read a fucking history book you idiot.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
"The US didn't "implant" Saddam, he took power himself. Read a fucking history book you idiot". Actually they did the CIA was involved in supporting a coup that brought to power the Baathists and Hussein to power in its anti-communism policy and they certainly helped keep him in power with plenty of weapons of mass destruction. Read a fucking history book you idiot! LOL!
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
No, you're still wrong. Saddam took power himself. He had CIA contacts, but unless you're a reactionary Anti-Amerian twat (you are), the analysis doesn't stop there. You probably also think that the American government created the Taliban.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
In 1963, a CIA-organized coup did successfully assassinate Qasim leader of Iraq and Saddam's Ba'ath Party came to power. The CIA then provided the new pliant, Iraqi regime with the names of thousands of communists, and other leftist activists and organizers. Thousands of these supporters of Qasim and his policies were soon dead in a rampage of mass murder carried out by the CIA's close friends in Iraq.
petersz98 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
You disgusting Zionists! You are sick, evil, deranged, psychotic and delusional. The world has had enough of you quite rightly so why don't crawl away somewhere and die!
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Its nice to see you're on board with Hitler's program. Do you think you're fooling anyone by calling 6 million Israeli Jews "Zionists"? You're obviously a disgusting bigot.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
I didn't call all Israelis Zionists. Nice to see you are on board Hitler's programme sorry Lieberman's programme(the Israeli Hitler I do do get confused between the 2 evil madmen!).
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
If Hitler had asked Jews to swear an oath to a "German" state or even expelled German Jews, they wouldn't have called it "the Holocaust." Again, your comparisons are repulsive and ridiculous.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
The Zionist Fuhrer Avigdor Lieberman has proposed a Fascist Loyalty oath that all Israeli citizens must sign up to recognizing Israel as a Jewish state. This is of course a thinly disguised plan to expel and get rid of the Arab population but it also means the Fuhrer can expel Leftists and anti-Zionist Israelis and basically anyone who disagrees with Fuhrer Lieberman.
Heil Lieberman!
Heil the Fourth Reich!
Stupid Zionist! LOL! LOL!
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Wow, you don't know what Fascism is. That's pretty sad for someone whose country was firebombed by the Nazis. Also, I'm PROUD to be a Zionist, and stick up for the Jews, who been helpless and oppressed by Europeans and Muslims for 1000 years.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Here's a good example of Zionist Fascism besides Fuhrer Lieberman:-
“Transfer of population as a solution to international disputes: Population exchanges between Greece and Turkey as a model for plans to solve the Jewish-Arab dispute in Palestine during the 1930s” by Yossi Katz, Department of Geography, Bar Ilan University, Ramat-Gan 2002.
Another example is a book called "They must go" by Rabbi Meir Kahane has a striking resemblance to another book called "Meine Kampf"!
petersz98 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
"Wow, you don't know what Fascism is". A highly militarised, racist, expansionist, ethno-centric warmongering state is a Fascist state. Prussia in the 19th century or Germany in the 1940s certainly. Israel in 2010? You bet!
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Again, your comparison is disgusting and offensive to all victims of the Holocaust and people who ACTUALLY suffered from fascism, like your own countrymen. Its obvious you think your argument is bullshit, and you think you can change opinions by repeating the same lie ad nauseum. But every time you do, decent people will refute you. Here's a tip: when people see that repeating buzzwords endlessly is your rhetorical strategy, they know YOU"RE FULL OF SHITE
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
You Zionists always arrogently claim you have the right to speak on behalf of the victims of the Holocaust and Fascism but you don't. Zionism was created as a racist colonial settler movement before Hitler was born. Marek Edelman, the last surviving leader of World War II's Warsaw Ghetto Uprising supported the Palestinian cause did you know that? If anyone has the right to speak on their behalf it is people like them not you!
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
That's a disgusting and dishonest accusation, since Zionism saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of Jews by breaking BRITISH law, which would have kept them in Europe to be slaughtered. You can dredge up holocaust survivors who oppose Israel, but the VAST majority support it. Zionism is the liberation movement of the Jewish people, which embraced many races. There was nothing colonial about it: it opposed the British colonizers who occupied Palestine. You know you're lying, why?
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
You have just prooved your complete ignorance. Without the Balfour Declaration Israel would not exist today which was basically Britain offering someone else's country to a foreign people. Besides without my country the Nazis would have succeeded in killing even more Jews. If Winston Churchill died in 1939 there was no one else to stop the Nazis. The Nazis would have succeeded in taking over Egypt, Palestine and the middle east. Only my country stopped them!
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
The Balfour Declaration was a piece of fucking paper. Jewish soldiers won the war in 1948, you fucking LIAR. and, you demented jew-hating piece of dogshit, America and the USSC won WWII. Your country was about to be devoured when we stepped in. You're acting like you like in North Korea or some other dictatorship that thinks its never lost a war. Grow the fuck up.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
In 1936 the British put down the the Great Arab Revolt in which 10% of the Palestinian population was killed. The Balfour declaration allowed Zionist colonisation to eventually take control of the whole country. This means Israel is a colonial settler state.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Kind of like the USA is a "settler colonial state" and all of South America is comprised of "settler colonial states." Your propaganda is rendered absurd by comparing Israel to the rest of the world. Much of the world consists of states that began as colonies. Your propaganda is based on taking things out of context and distorting the tiny specks of history you rely on for your propaganda narrative
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@petersz98
Answer this question: did you even know that your OWN country didn't have a written constitution?
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
It does have a Constitution but yes your right it is not in one single document but has evolved over centuries. Magna Carta, Habeous Corpus, Bill of Rights and the Great Reform Act = Constitution.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
And Israel, like the United States, inherited this jurisprudence from Britain. Its odd that a British citizen would try so hard to defame a legal system that so resembles his own, while not giving a shit about totalitarian shariah that enslaves women. I guess thats how much irrational hatred has warped your sick, Jew-obsessed mind.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Israel does not have a Constitution like the US or Britain. Take Habeas Corpus for example I take it you know what this is. Well it does not exist in Israel where anyone Arab or Jew can be arrested and held without charge for months on end. Newspapers can be censored as happened recently with Haaretz which had blank areas in its newspaper in the Uri Blau/Anat Kam case because of the Shin Bet. Is this a democracy?
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
(1) Israel does have Habeas, you're a LIAR
(2) only 13% of Israel is JNF land, you're a LIAR
(3) Israel has antidiscrimination law in employment, you're a LIAR
Its obvious that you, like the rest of your society, feels so bad about itself that it will cling to any delusional pseudo-moral crusade to forget about its dark past. Its really quite pathetic. Anyone who has been to Israel can see its like a Western country, while its neighbors are hellholes.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
You are completely wrong on all 3 counts. Israel holds 10000 Palestinians the vast majority civilians some children under 16. These are political prisoners. In Israel you see job adverts stating only candidates with military service allowed meaning no Arabs. The JNF holds 13% of the land(nearly all stolen from Palestinan refugees and citizens by the way) but appoints 50% of commitess of the Israeli Land Authority which never leases land to Arabs.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
(1) Arabs serve in the military and get those jobs, you fucking LIAR
(2) There were never "Palestinian Citizens", and, as far as land is concerned, many many many times more was stolen from Jews by Arabs, and for some reason you don't care, why is that? Because you're a Jew-hating bigot. The amount of land JNF holds is miniscule, and you know it. Its disgusting and cynical to suggesting that trying to help victims of the world's world genocide is racist.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Very, very few Arabs serve in the military mostly Druze and Bedouin. Palestine was a country under British colonial rule from the 1920s. There was Palestinian money, Palestinian passports and Palestinian citizenship long before Israel was created. Most Jews from Arab countries left voluntarliy as Avi Shalim an Iraqi Jew and historian has admitted. In any case Israel was created in 1948 in which case the Holocaust and the War were over by then.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Any Arab may serve, and they do. Thank you for conceding you LIED. Arab Jews left voluntarily the same way many Palestinians did: the wanted to get out before they were KILLED. Iraqi Nazis instigated pograms, Libya, Egypt, and Tunisia all legally expelled their Jews. Your lies don't stand up for two long when one looks at the mountains of historical evidence demonstrating conclusively that Jews were expelled and robbed of their land. people don't give up billions for free, LIAR
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Zionists planted bombs in synagogues in Iraq to "encourage" Jews to leave. They even had to pay compensation to its victims.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Even if thats true, it doesn't explain their leaving. EVEN SHLAIM acknowledges that. And thats a different argument from the one you made before, you FUCKING LIAR. I REFUTE every LIE you make, and you keep giving me new ones. Its TOO EASY.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
In any case the Zionists started the conflict not the Arabs. I think you will find that I am right the Zionists did plant bombs in synagogues in Iraq so who are the Nazis then? How were Iraqi Jews to know the bombing of synagogues was actually by Jews and not Arabs? When these Arab Jews went to Israel they were treated like scum by Ashkenazis many were sprayed with DDT, their children were kidnapped and told that they had "died" and given to Ashkenazi families.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Even if the bombings had never occured the Jews all would have fled. There were plenty of Arab pogroms, and the Iraqi government will importing Nazi ideology. Since you're a LIAR, you exaggerate the significance of the false flag bombs. 100,000+ people don't abandon all their property because of a few bombs. It takes a program of ethnic cleansing.
FYI: Arab Jews are happy to live in Israel, and would laugh at the idea of living under Muslim oppression as their ancestors did.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
What do you with a serial killer that keeps killing people. The serial killer develops a bloodlust and becomes addicted to killing and takes greater and greater risks and kills more and more people. Such a Jack the Ripper person must be arrested as soon as possible. But what if a state is like this, well there is Israel, a Jack the Ripper state. They have butchered 1500 people in Gaza it could be 15000 people next. This evil state must be stopped.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
those blood-lusting Jews, they sure love blood don't they. Please keep this up.
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
Blood-lusting Zionists!
petersz98 1 year ago
@LearnedHand2008
I suggest you are mentally ill. Have you ever seen a psychiatrist? Zionism is a mental illness. Zionists for some reason believe hijacking ships in the high seas is not piracy, incinerating people with white phosphorous at temperatures of 1500C is not a war crime, duplicating passports is not forgery and keeping millions of people under the rule of the gun with no human and political rights is OK.You are a sick, evil, inhuman monster just like all extremist Zionists are.
petersz98 1 year ago
@petersz98
Zionism is self-preservation. You're the one imagining things. The blockade is legal, nobody was "incinerated" by white phosphorus, thats another LIE. EVERY country with a spy agency creates false passports, and Palestinians have more human and political rights than Jordanians, Syrians, Saudis, black Sudanese, etc.
Its too FUCKING EASY refuting you. TRY HARDER
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago
@petersz98
Were you raised by a family that hates Israel? What explains your obsession? You living in BRITAIN! Why do you try so extremely hard to hate a country so far away from you that is the only civilized place in a sea of chauvanistic Muslim/Arab natonalism and dictatorship. Do you know about Darfur? Do you know about Kurds in Turkey? Do you know about the ethnic cleansing of Christians going on NOW? Your obsession with Israel cannot be explained rationally
LearnedHand2008 1 year ago