Jon Vickers sings Wagner conducted by Karl Bohm (vaimusic.com)

[SPTN58]

Jon Vickers was a superb artist and singer.

[ShawDAMAN]

@unethicaldenier I quite liked him as Don Jose, Otello, and Rhadames as well. I'm not german so I can't comment on his pronunciation..... however I can assure you he has german fans.

Like Callas and others, the attraction is power and emotional intensity, and I guess 'musical intelligence.' Not so much wanting to hear a beautiful sound.

[donaldrose]

Vickers always sang with tenderness and musicality while del Monaco seemed to need to sing at the top of his voice at every opportunity. Having said that, there is a instance here on YouTube where del Monaco sings In Fernem Land from Lohengrin with great sensitivity and musicality and his voice had a lovely sound.

[cfreetenor]

@unethicaldenier He's a dramatic tenor singing a Wagner aria. I have a feeling your idea of 'lyrical' is the antithesis of thrilling.

[yourfieldofdreams]

if i were singing up there all i would be thinking "i hope i don't fall"

[ParadiseofTruth]

@yourfieldofdreams lmao!

[dg6da]

...and a very good german pronounciation!

[chichovifil]

...ich persönlich kann nicht beurteilen, ob sein Deutsch nicht gut genug, oder doch gut genug ist, das ist aber eigentlich scheißegal-er singt tausendmal besser als JEDEN deutschen Tenor je gesungen hat,die Deutschen haben wegen Stimmen,noch Verständis fürs Belcanto!Auch die deutschen Komponisten werden und sind immer von Ausländern besser gesungen und interpreriert worden,als von Deutsche!Dixi.

[piasecznik]

@chichovifil

You don't need to have a good understanding of bel canto to sing Wagner.

And if you think that Fritz Wunderlich doesn't know how to do belcanto, you have no clue.

Most of the best Wagner, Schubert, Beethoven singers are German. Not all of them, some are from countries around Germany, like Denmark (Melchior) or Norway (Flagstad), but most are German.

[Labienus]

@piasecznik

you would sing Wagner a lot better if you had a good understanding of bel canto

For a long time Wagner singing was afflicted with the Bayreuth bark-precisely because singing was confused with declamation and not good at that evenness beauty of tone a good musical line is not incompatible with clarity of text

Wunderlich was exceptional because he incorporated the bel canto tradition even when singing in German

[piasecznik]

@Labienus no- more like because Wagner wanted it that way.

'Wagner (18131883) decried the Italian singing model, alleging that it was concerned merely with "whether that G or A will come out roundly". He advocated a German school of singing which would draw "the spiritually energetic and profoundly passionate into the orbit of its matchless Expression"'

[Labienus]

Sounds like Wagner but he also admired Bellini surely not for the orchestration? What he was decrying was frivilous singing not proper vocal production

I think he turned over in his grave when the maniac Cosima codified Bayreuth singing as BAD singing -that's what it was- thankfully no more

Yes we want depth, meaning, spirituality-whatever that is-but that is not incompatible with good singing which for all that derives from the "grand tradition" and based on the principles of bel canto

[piasecznik]

@Labienus Well, I don't know.

When I listen to very old recordings by pre-Caruso tenors, for instance Tamagno, I think that they're incredibly boring. Wagner describes my feelings there actually perfectly, that they're just concerned with their -perfect- vocal production, but not with emotions. A Wagner singer often values interpretation over beautiful singing, a little bit like Verismo singers. Well, and in Wagner operas good interpretation mostly results in barking.

[Labienus]

Seems to be some confusion regarding the original motivation for my response. So you have me confused.

I am talking about the means of vocal production which derive from the Italian bel canto tradition. There's a right way to sing for our music, and that can be applied to any style, any era. What a particular artist brings to it in terms of interpretation and depth, meaning etc. varies-but the core vocal techniques - how you create the sound-should be the same.

[Labienus]

Again don't get your pt. We know that the style of singing (in Italian opera) became more dramatic and realistic at the beginning of the 20ieth cent-and not just Caruso. Pre-verisimo Ital. opera had more standard forms and a kind of instrumental style for the voice-but we know eg Callas -that the same music could be sung in the style but also with great meaning.

Plenty of Germ maybe more Austrian! who sang beautifully-because they understood the Italian tradtion combined it with their style

[piasecznik]

@Labienus

and there were lots more good German (or Austrian) bel canto singers. Slezak, Schmidt, Jadlowker, Tauber...

[ezev8logos]

Increible. Vickers el mejor heldentenor. que lastima que nunca grabo tanhauser hubiese sido increible

[mvconnelly]

What I would have gave to have been in the audience that night.

[Labienus]

What a bunch of odd comments about one of the most remarkable singers to ever appear on an opera stage

I heard him live many times-the voice was huge even the top could be great with the right approach it was like surround sound in the theater

His German was well idiosyncratic but hardly awful

his soft singing could carry to the last row

Why would Corelli sing Wagner? that was not his fach his voice was also huge with the most brilliant top ever heard and was intuitively musical

[alecs1976]

@Labienus

His voice and singing is really great, but his German is actually not very good, especially his "i"s are much to bright....and honestly, I don't have the feeling he really knows what he is singing about...

[piasecznik]

I think he knows that, the colours of his voice match the content of the words he's singing pretty well. I agree about his German though, most vowels are somewhat off, plus he was singing 'Keim und Spross entspricht seiner Kraft', not '....entspringt' . Despite of all that, his singing is great, and I believe that he improved his German later on, as evident in his Fidelio.

[Labienus]

I had to laugh a bit after reading your comment

on the Sat. Met broadcast they had an intermission feature with the German diction coach Vicker's singing this (not this recording) was playing in the background as an example of good diction!

I prefer my idiosyncratic to your "actually not very good" I played phrases that bothered me to German friends-didn't bother them reminded me that distortion, always occurs in singing also that there is great variety in pronunciation even today in Germ

[Labienus]

this is also a fairly early recording

I 'd have to dispute your "feeling" that he doesn't know what he's singing

he ALWAYS knew what he was singing about, studied it, pondered it, the words were essential to him and not simply for sound projection His whole concept was tied to the drama more than the singing itself so the words and meaning obsessed him

I know at least later in his career he learned to speak German well enough(unlike many singers)

[alecs1976]

@Labienus

German is not your native language, I take it ?

well, I of course do not know about other recordings...I was referring to this one and in this here, especially in the begining, his diction is simply not good! but you can ask the met coach what he'd have to say about this recording...

that does not mean that he is not a great singer or that his sound isn't great, in fact his sound is sensational!

[alecs1976]

@Labienus

but: German happens to be my native language and so I have a different feeling for it than "foreigners"...an my feeling is, he memorized the words and worked on the pronunciation, but simply does not really know the language as a whole...

and your comment that "at least later" in his career he learned to speak German sustains that impression!

[Labienus]

Certainly I defer if it is your native language I study it forever! and am particularly sensitive to it being sung My friends one is a language teacher , another MD/psych opera fanatic-only passing on their reactions and as you know in Germ. as in GB regionalisms still predominate

but too many great opera singers have not really "known"/or at all- the language they sing in but Vicker's would have worked his ass off on meaning even early in his career

[Labienus]

so much even great singing (although to a native speaker there is always a difference) is by singers not fluent in it-how could they possibly know all the languages required today?-except somone like Gedda

I remember a story about Hotter coaching J. Morris who did not/does not? "know" German-and saying something about well he might not know it but he can sure sing it

I always found Vickers e's i's odd as in Euch werde Lohn but several native speakers had no problem you do-what can I say?

[ROWANV1]

you can't possibly be serious...you clearly don't know anything about jon vickers

[alecs1976]

@ROWANV1

what do I need to "know" about him in order to make comments on his German diction ? ..

[labman4d]

@Labienus Thank you! I can't believe all these crazy comments. I would love to hear the better versions you all can sing. Please feel free to post. I'm starting to feel youtube is being SO abused by amature critics. Just sit back and enjoy...if you can.

[gepopo1]

Awful german language, wonderful voice!

[Bigman240]

Too many words!!!!

[maxhansendk]

Nothing special with Jon Vickers...Sorry he sounds boring.

Loud singing (even screaming) can´t hide the fact that Vickers is a medium gifted tenor who relied mainly on being loud.

Listen to Franco Corelli instead! He had big voice, but never screamed. Always music came first.

[dg6da]

...Vickers is "screaming"? Are you insane?

[aidavdbrake]

@dg6da i totally agree: it's insane to say vickers is screaming in this piece. jon vickers like no other dramatic tenor that i know of, treated music with the utmost respect, using more dynamics (singing both soft and loud) and fewer fashionable slurs (portamenti) than anyone else. and this short piece he doesn't use any kind of force, he isn't even singing his top notes full forte/fortissimo, he doesn't need to, his huge voice does all the work for him! great technique too!!

[wowyourgaiy]

You think Corelli wasn't a screamer? Please. His "signature" attack of his top was proof of some of the technical difficulties he dealt with throughout his career. Corelli is also notorious for barking... nothing musical about that.

[erd5215]

Having heard Jon Vickers sing on a number of occasions at Covent Garden - Otello, Fidelio, Samson (Saen-Saen + Handel), Tristan - amongst some of the roles, I can assure you that he never screamed. He was in fact the possessor of an enormous voice. A friend of mine who sang with the ROH chorus for years claimed that only Mario Del Monaco had a voice to match. Vickers had a voice of rare beauty and when required, the top notes would ring out like a trumpet. Oh that we had a Jon Vickers today.

[egymagyar1111111]

@erd5215 thanks, I was in doubt for long years, and had to recognise your reason he is the gretast, in Norma in Orange 1973 or so yes MDM was the only who could match this tempest

[Webarton]

lol! IGNORANCE FTL

[ShawDAMAN]

Corelli couldn't sing Wagner and Fidelio. Vickers didn't scream. His voice could be a bit dry perhaps but by all (or most) accounts it was great to hear live. And no, Corelli was not a very musical singer at all, although he had an incredible voice.

[kidd32888]

Such grace with a big voice!!

[sobatinyela]

all other WIntersturmes on youtube bow down to this one.. ein Meister! but you fanboys need to relax about the "back of the orchestra" BS.. any resonant, "larger" voice would carry in that situation due to the phenomenon of the singer's formant. I'm also sure he didn't just show up and decide to sing from back there on the day of the performance!! His position was probably experimented with during rehearsal until the best balance was achieved... relax!

[paulostroff99]

Jon Vickers rules. Bravo!  TY.

[Webarton]

Please, check out my video on my profile.. it is a reply to most of these morons who talk about singers on youtube as if they know anything about voice...

[jbjorling]

Which video were you talking about?  Do you mean the ones of Bryan Register?

[donaldrose]

Vickers was a fine musician but willingly put dramatic values over musical valus.

Note that in this he is singing at THE BACK of a full orchestra and unmiked. Not many singers have the power or the 'cojones' to attempt this.

[j72050]

...Vickers always lacked the musicality and beauty that Melchior had..or even Vinay, who I visualize as the greatest Otello ever recorded.....in fact his Otello with Toscanini is claimed by so many classisists as the finest operatic recording ever made for the past 70 years...I agree.... Vickers seems to be shouting with a big vein in his neck popping out....but one thing, he did a great Fidelio in 1962 with Klemperer....

[vickersman]

I don't see any veins popping, as you suggest.I also think the rest of your statement is wrong.He is singing unmiked at the back of the orchestra and singing over them.If you think Melchior had a more beautiful voice than Vickers-heaven help us! Vickers was an excellent musician.I sang on stage with him and watched him "teach" a conductor or two.He WAS Otello on stage-perhaps there were others who sometime sang better-but none acted better!

[poolatkigali]

you're hilarious.

[berlinman46]

Jon Vickers my Favorite Heldentenor,and a wonderful musician,a Male Callas..just try the Dallas Medeas` he did with her stunning!!

[lg364]

listen to melchior and vinay singing wagner.

[berlinman46]

Tolg364 Melchoir was a Pushed up Heldentenor in that he started his career as a Baritone, and I have allways found his voice a bit too Steely for me!! allthough he was "OK" I prefer Jon Vicers

[vickersman]

A male Callas-what an insult!-yes Callas was a great...great talent as an operatic actress, but her voice faded fast-compared to the heroical exploits of Maestro Vickers,who not only championed the notion of 'singing actor', but maintained a vocal ecellence that lasted, unblemmished into his 60's. The same can not be said of diva Callas, who unfortunately relied too much on what she had done and less on what she could do.

[tonyantony1]

It's not an insult at all!Vickers said in an interview that Callas was a revolution in opera in terms of personality ,singing and dramatic interpretation.She lost her voice early,so what?Quality is better than quantity. After all,she had such a vast repertoire and she gave many great performances.

[CONTESTAR]

You don't sing Aida as Callas in Mexico or Traviata or Norma in Milano or Giconda or or or... with all the talent in the world!

JV new that. His fans don't.

[vickersman]

I don't understand this statement at all.I'm sure you have a strong point, but would you mind making it clearer. I'm listening to "Him" sing Wintersturme as I write this....and to me his was the best tenor voice of the century (20th)-including Caruso,Corelli,Bjorling,all fall behind...the voice just had so much character, very few tenors can ever master the "heroic "tenor quality.Jon did.But,it wasn't easy.

[CONTESTAR]

first of all let's make it clear that I adore Vickers' heroic sound and artistry.

You seemed to emphasize the "talent" of Callas as if one can have a career like hers based on talent alone.

As much as I adore Vickers I have heard more than one (recorded) performances where he fought for his life to get through!

One can use those as an argument to say "he had no technique! He based his career on natural talent!"

How unfair would that be for a major artist! Aphorisms even implied, are too easy.

[vickersman]

Vicker's had one thing that so many big-voiced barkers never had-and that is a beautiful head voice-which he used to amazing lengths-sometimes too much?I think he learned this from George Lambert(his teacher at the Toronto Conservatory)Lambert was a big voiced baritone.I think he taught Vickers how to handle his large sound.Did he have some rough nights- of course he did.I liken it to driving a large truck down an icy road at 80.Sometimes there are slips.Big voices are hard to handle-I know!

[aspsingr]

I'm curious do you know any of the details of how exactly vickers was able to build that head sound into his voice. I agree with you about him!

[vickersman]

I can't really add more than I have already stated on Vicker's falsetto(as distiguished from head voice.)He used it in soft passeges to great advantage,but to me seeing all of Dichterliebe falsetto-well it's not my favourite-but he was a heldontenor,and I'd say he NEVER, EVER sounded like a barker or honker.But he could unleash power like none other!That's what I think we love to hear in Jon Vickers-the power,wrapped in a beautiful sound.

[coryisawake]

he is physically over the orchestra.

[eeli1]

Gotta love how he sings over that full orchestra with ease, you go Vickers.

[Johnny1206]

Lorenz, Melchior, Völker and Vickers are my favorite tenors in the wagnerian repertoire.

[sgnmath1234]

Check out the lady's hat at 0:19

[darkwagner]

Vickers und Melchior sind imo die schönsten Heldentenöre des letzten Jahrtausend.

[Erkele]

That is fine 3,34 seconds.

[mezereum]

el mejor Heldentenor de todos los tiempos.

mi humilde opinion

[primobaritono]

Wow, he looks so celtic !!! Great singer, Great artist.

[Piacevole]

His voice is incredibly focused! Almost hard.. But I love this.

[ariastoteles]

Greetimgs

[vickersman]

My favourite tenor-so a great pleasure to see this.Such a strange set-up, with Vickers "up- on- high", -didn't help the sound recording very much. Still, the then 39 year old Vickers sounds wonderful.

[billyguns2]

One of the greatest Siegmunds conducted by one of the greatest conductors of German music; many thanks for posting this.

[cdgray2]

Vickers was surely one of the finest. What a pleasure to view this.