The ''reformers'' of Vatican 2 from the late 1960s onwards threw nearly all of this beautiful music that transcends the banalities of ''modern church'' and makes us all think that perhaps there may be some sort of sphere beyond our human understanding. Guitars and trendy clerics too often suppress any such concepts if one goes to a typical happy clappy Mass, especially when the emphasis is on individuals and not elevating the mind and spirit beyond this world. No wonder that I am agnostic!
Muzyki klasycznej słucham od 13 roku życia. Twórczość mistrzów renesansu, w tym i Josquina, wydawała mi się przez lata ... nudna, pomimo licznych jej rekomendacji. Do tak wielkiej sztuki trzeba jednak dojrzeć. Muzyka Josquina to nie tylko fantastyczna, harmonijna budowla dźwiękowa, des Prez to również melodysta. Powyższy psalm jest po prostu genialny!
It's such a pity that we so seldom hear marvels like this in the modern church. I wish we could do a piece like this in my church. Granted, it would likely take much more training for a choir of amateur singers to learn a piece like this...but my goodness, wouldn't it be worth every minute spent in practice to do something like this even once in one's life? And wouldn't it be the experience of a lifetime to have members of your own congregation share something like this with you?
get an android app by a Rome tour-guide that explains with audio and pictures the art, history and thought of the chapel to use or remember you next visit. look up "Vatican' in the android market, developer Romavita
For those wondering why we don't have this music any more, blame the Council of Trent! It's amazing that something that happened centuries ago is almost directly responsible for the music we hear today. The plainchants that polyphonic melodies were derived from were pared down to some of the hymns still in common use for church services! I personally would much rather hear this!
@mixtape24 It's not really "chaotic" at all...... each part has its own separate "voice" or melodic line: this is called "polyphony": quite unlike most music in the 20th century where you have just one melody and the other parts just harmonize with it. BUT, as you have observed, everything fits together very well. The craftmanship required to write something like this is ENORMOUS - it's very difficult to get all the different parts working together to produce a beautiful and orderly sound!!
Classics are taken for granted in Cartoons and Movies, but shunned as a day to day musical option. Strange. This is such a beautiful piece. The human voice can be stunningly expressive and overwhelmingly beautiful.
Classics are taken for granted in Cartoons and Movies, but shunned as a day to day musical option. Strange. This is such a beautiful piece. The human voice can be stunningly expressive and overwhelmingly beautiful.
I do lots of classical compositions and I can tell you folks what he did here is quite remarkable, the overall timbers and dynamics, never mind the phrasing to work together like this is very difficult to do.
Yes, it definitely is. It's from the early renaissance.
As far as boundaries can be implemented in music history, baroque began around 1600. Josquin Deprez died in 1521, so about 80 years before baroque began.
I agree to a certain extent . . . For its time, this was still fairly radical music . . . born out of Perotin's early experiments with polyphony (which had to be even more radical than punk rock or The Beatles for that time!) . . . Monteverdi took it to a whole new level with his vocal experiments and the introduction of what would become modern opera . This music sounds beautifully minimalistic to us now (though I still beg to differ) but for then . . . it was incredibly complex.
So only monophony can be minimalist? Or perhaps homophony? And what about micrpolyphony, can that be minimalist? Can anything be minimalist? Oh yeah, the amount of thought given to your comment.
Absolutely...common sense people like us need to stand up to our liturgists (or "worship coordinators" as they are called in some churches) and demand authentic Christianity...not their "dreary, drippy little liberal lullabies" (quoted from Peter Kreeft).
@ThunderFarts420 Oh I agree with you 100%! That's probably the main reason why I dislike church so much (although I make myself still attend). But what a marvelous mystical experience it COULD be--every single Sunday--if we could hear wonderful sounds like these. Sad, so sad. So tragic that so many people are so short-sighted and so willingly ignorant, and glorying and revelling in their ignorance. What a tragic waste of human lives, imagination, and capacity!
If this represents the power of the Church back then, I'm glad I live right now. As a piece of art, it can easily be placed among the top 20 contenders for the title Ultimate Masterpiece. Absolutely beautiful in a very absolutist manner.
If you love this work so much, then why do you disparage the authority of the Church in antiquity which you see as the source of this work? I am not following you.
The Church, among other things, gave us Universities, the Arts, Scholasticism, Hospitals, International Law, Economics and hundreds of other things which have made our civilization possible. How, then, is the Church's authority bad?
I can easily argue that all those things existed in Ancient Greece, Egypt and Babylon as well. But what I meant to say is that I can hardly imagine a piece of art more absolutist than this one. Absolutism was the worldly trend in those days, and since the Church has always chummed up with the worldly powers of the moment, it would have rubbed off on them, wouldn't it? OT: the Church as an institution has always been a winner's friend.
@DelendaEstCarthago1 I see it as more of a grey area. I won't deny church's contribution to society, but it has also done some awful things... during the Renaissance especially... this era gave way to the the European slave trade and the genocide of indigenous cultures in the Americas, all under the authority of the Vatican. I know that this music was written for the church, but it is also beautiful and inspires faith, regardless of the institution under which it was written.
@NotHomelessAnymore And where are you getting your information? "Under the authority of the Vatican"? Please. That statement in itself shows a complete ignorance about how the Church works. Why don't you read Pope Paul III's "Sublimus Dei" which is one of the first of Western society's statements against slavery and the oppression of the South American peoples. You must have been reading revisionist history which is most often very anti-Catholic. Get better sources.
@NotHomelessAnymore In this Encyclical (May 29th, AD 1537) his Holiness says says: "[The Natives] are by no means to be deprived of their liberty or the possession of their property, even though they be outside the faith of Jesus Christ; and that they may and should, freely and legitimately, enjoy their liberty and the possession of their property; nor should they be in any way enslaved; should the contrary happen, it shall be null and have no effect."
@DelendaEstCarthago1 But did they break their ties with the Portuguese over their crimes (I'll exclude Spain due to the inquisition) like the way Pope Innocent VII broke Rome's ties with England over the issue of a divorce? Also what about Nicholas V's papal bull "Dum Diversas" later revived by Poper Sixtus IV and the infamous Leo X? I won't deny the Catholic Church played a valuable role in bringing slavery to an end, but it also played a role in causing these problems in the first place.
La Renaissance musicale commence à la XVeme siècle. Josquin est un compositeur de l'école franco-flamande (trousième géneration), alors de la renaissance.
Si pueden escúchelo con un buen equipo de sonido, no en los altavoces del ordenador. En la parte final la voz de los bajos retumba como un profundo tañido de campanas sobre el que reverberan el resto de las voces. Es una auténtica maravilla.
According to Van Nevel " The school of flemisch music" in Arras ( what was in Flemisch Burgondy at that time, and called Atrecht ) was like a boarding shool for these composers. They actually grew up there as children, and the music is enormously influenced by the LANDSCAPE they've always seen as a kid. As crazy as this sound: if you knew the waving meadows, with some group of trees of the nowadays N. France and Flanders ( no lakes, no rocky mountains, no wide plains) you'd KNOW he's right!
hEY, can anybody tell me the secrets of Michelangelo's vatican art that spits in the popes' face for being such an arogant asshole?
MrDizzyvonclutch 1 month ago
The ''reformers'' of Vatican 2 from the late 1960s onwards threw nearly all of this beautiful music that transcends the banalities of ''modern church'' and makes us all think that perhaps there may be some sort of sphere beyond our human understanding. Guitars and trendy clerics too often suppress any such concepts if one goes to a typical happy clappy Mass, especially when the emphasis is on individuals and not elevating the mind and spirit beyond this world. No wonder that I am agnostic!
baroqueman1 2 months ago 3
man....that took me to heaven
cdphatty 3 months ago 2
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music has no religion
pirveliskola 1 year ago
Indescribably beautiful...I love Josquin. It's no wonder why Martin Luther called
him The Master of the notes". Thanks for posting!!!
1LaOriental 1 year ago
SUBLIMISSIME......
GrenouilleAuSoleil 1 year ago
Muzyki klasycznej słucham od 13 roku życia. Twórczość mistrzów renesansu, w tym i Josquina, wydawała mi się przez lata ... nudna, pomimo licznych jej rekomendacji. Do tak wielkiej sztuki trzeba jednak dojrzeć. Muzyka Josquina to nie tylko fantastyczna, harmonijna budowla dźwiękowa, des Prez to również melodysta. Powyższy psalm jest po prostu genialny!
homomusic1 1 year ago
It's such a pity that we so seldom hear marvels like this in the modern church. I wish we could do a piece like this in my church. Granted, it would likely take much more training for a choir of amateur singers to learn a piece like this...but my goodness, wouldn't it be worth every minute spent in practice to do something like this even once in one's life? And wouldn't it be the experience of a lifetime to have members of your own congregation share something like this with you?
LanakilaIesu 1 year ago 2
my heart just melted
mindbodylightsound10 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
get an android app by a Rome tour-guide that explains with audio and pictures the art, history and thought of the chapel to use or remember you next visit. look up "Vatican' in the android market, developer Romavita
gotheable 1 year ago
This is awfully similar to Ockeghem's Deo Gratis.
jeffbrak 1 year ago
Not a Catholic here. Discovered Josquin in grad school. Sublime.
900heyzeus 1 year ago
Not a catholic here. Discovered Josquin in grad school. Sublime.
900heyzeus 1 year ago
For those wondering why we don't have this music any more, blame the Council of Trent! It's amazing that something that happened centuries ago is almost directly responsible for the music we hear today. The plainchants that polyphonic melodies were derived from were pared down to some of the hymns still in common use for church services! I personally would much rather hear this!
dunlunicor 1 year ago
@mixtape24 It's not really "chaotic" at all...... each part has its own separate "voice" or melodic line: this is called "polyphony": quite unlike most music in the 20th century where you have just one melody and the other parts just harmonize with it. BUT, as you have observed, everything fits together very well. The craftmanship required to write something like this is ENORMOUS - it's very difficult to get all the different parts working together to produce a beautiful and orderly sound!!
HolyMotherofGrid 1 year ago 2
Churches absolutely do sing this music. Visit the great churches in Manhattan. This music is my life. It is what makes me believe in God.
barbaraanne123 1 year ago 2
hard to believe 500 years down the track people call justin bieber a musician :(
Wade3Brad6TV 1 year ago 7
One million times better than the guitars and drums at the Sunday youth Mass...just sayin
telecom79 1 year ago 5
Beautiful
Ramirezo123 1 year ago 2
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Classics are taken for granted in Cartoons and Movies, but shunned as a day to day musical option. Strange. This is such a beautiful piece. The human voice can be stunningly expressive and overwhelmingly beautiful.
ZizelTTog 1 year ago
Classics are taken for granted in Cartoons and Movies, but shunned as a day to day musical option. Strange. This is such a beautiful piece. The human voice can be stunningly expressive and overwhelmingly beautiful.
ZizelTTog 1 year ago
It sickens me to think we've left this behind for garbage "look good" music of the 20th century.... *sigh*
WilliamEGD 1 year ago
No hay palabras...
JOrgeZalSerr 1 year ago
Im an athiest, but music like this makes me wonder...
paulmcguineapig1 1 year ago 37
@paulmcguineapig1 Yeah, makes me wonder if a God could ever create something this amazing!
saladshootavvv 1 year ago
@paulmcguineapig1 It should make you wonder, you will see choirs of Angels yet my friend. God bless you +
TrainmasterCurt 1 year ago
@paulmcguineapig1 It makes me wonder too.
NicenEasyuk 2 days ago
We live only to discover beauty. All else is a form of waiting. ~ Kahlil Gibran
mephistofleas 1 year ago
wish I saw this live
JeroenUyttendaele 1 year ago
A Secret Labyrinth: A Celebration of Music from the Middle Ages to the Renaissance
The lost musical arts of 500 years long past.
ThunderFarts420 1 year ago 2
I do lots of classical compositions and I can tell you folks what he did here is quite remarkable, the overall timbers and dynamics, never mind the phrasing to work together like this is very difficult to do.
orbit991 1 year ago 2
Si cantaran esto en las misas de ahora.. pese a que no soy creyente, asistiría igual.
aliciabach 1 year ago 3
how you can find that?
CoCo2759 1 year ago
24 voices
Muziekloverrr 1 year ago
is this a pre baroque peice??
KayKayKuChu12 1 year ago
@KayKayKuChu12
Yes, it definitely is. It's from the early renaissance.
As far as boundaries can be implemented in music history, baroque began around 1600. Josquin Deprez died in 1521, so about 80 years before baroque began.
kgaaswippo 1 year ago
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How beautiful it sounds! I wanted to sing it with my friends, if I could.
slashgobill 1 year ago
Comment removed
slashgobill 1 year ago
I agree with Thunder I actually said that yesterday lol
MetalheadX9999 1 year ago
@JSBach90
I agree to a certain extent . . . For its time, this was still fairly radical music . . . born out of Perotin's early experiments with polyphony (which had to be even more radical than punk rock or The Beatles for that time!) . . . Monteverdi took it to a whole new level with his vocal experiments and the introduction of what would become modern opera . This music sounds beautifully minimalistic to us now (though I still beg to differ) but for then . . . it was incredibly complex.
jubjub2112 2 years ago
So only monophony can be minimalist? Or perhaps homophony? And what about micrpolyphony, can that be minimalist? Can anything be minimalist? Oh yeah, the amount of thought given to your comment.
tat1685 2 years ago
they should do this in church now instead of the terrible contemporary trash.
ThunderFarts420 2 years ago 87
Absolutely...common sense people like us need to stand up to our liturgists (or "worship coordinators" as they are called in some churches) and demand authentic Christianity...not their "dreary, drippy little liberal lullabies" (quoted from Peter Kreeft).
DelendaEstCarthago1 1 year ago
@ThunderFarts420 Oh I agree with you 100%! That's probably the main reason why I dislike church so much (although I make myself still attend). But what a marvelous mystical experience it COULD be--every single Sunday--if we could hear wonderful sounds like these. Sad, so sad. So tragic that so many people are so short-sighted and so willingly ignorant, and glorying and revelling in their ignorance. What a tragic waste of human lives, imagination, and capacity!
tjwhite1963 1 year ago 4
@ThunderFarts420
What is "contemporary trash" for you? Christian Rock and Hillsong United?
hyperseauton 1 year ago
@ThunderFarts420 I want nothing to do with what we have now.
rogermoore27 1 year ago
@ThunderFarts420 I love you.
Soraia27 1 year ago 2
@ThunderFarts420 agree!!
PartidaHanon 1 year ago
@ThunderFarts420 the contemporary trash brings trash minded people, that´s why there still are churches.
BurRocKilL 1 year ago
@ThunderFarts420 This is done in the Latin Mass.
WeepingStellaMaris 1 year ago 2
@ThunderFarts420
Contemporary terrible church trash...love the expression!
martiriobaby 1 year ago 3
@martiriobaby I just love the expression in his username
ltolleyyyy 3 months ago
This is something new to me: it is confusing and beautiful at the same time!
Davccelion 2 years ago 17
If this represents the power of the Church back then, I'm glad I live right now. As a piece of art, it can easily be placed among the top 20 contenders for the title Ultimate Masterpiece. Absolutely beautiful in a very absolutist manner.
voxhunden 2 years ago 2
Er, what? Your comment has lots of nice words but I don't see how they make a coherent statement when combined...
Toribus 2 years ago
If you love this work so much, then why do you disparage the authority of the Church in antiquity which you see as the source of this work? I am not following you.
The Church, among other things, gave us Universities, the Arts, Scholasticism, Hospitals, International Law, Economics and hundreds of other things which have made our civilization possible. How, then, is the Church's authority bad?
DelendaEstCarthago1 1 year ago 3
I can easily argue that all those things existed in Ancient Greece, Egypt and Babylon as well. But what I meant to say is that I can hardly imagine a piece of art more absolutist than this one. Absolutism was the worldly trend in those days, and since the Church has always chummed up with the worldly powers of the moment, it would have rubbed off on them, wouldn't it? OT: the Church as an institution has always been a winner's friend.
voxhunden 1 year ago
@DelendaEstCarthago1 I see it as more of a grey area. I won't deny church's contribution to society, but it has also done some awful things... during the Renaissance especially... this era gave way to the the European slave trade and the genocide of indigenous cultures in the Americas, all under the authority of the Vatican. I know that this music was written for the church, but it is also beautiful and inspires faith, regardless of the institution under which it was written.
NotHomelessAnymore 1 year ago
@NotHomelessAnymore And where are you getting your information? "Under the authority of the Vatican"? Please. That statement in itself shows a complete ignorance about how the Church works. Why don't you read Pope Paul III's "Sublimus Dei" which is one of the first of Western society's statements against slavery and the oppression of the South American peoples. You must have been reading revisionist history which is most often very anti-Catholic. Get better sources.
DelendaEstCarthago1 1 year ago
@NotHomelessAnymore In this Encyclical (May 29th, AD 1537) his Holiness says says: "[The Natives] are by no means to be deprived of their liberty or the possession of their property, even though they be outside the faith of Jesus Christ; and that they may and should, freely and legitimately, enjoy their liberty and the possession of their property; nor should they be in any way enslaved; should the contrary happen, it shall be null and have no effect."
DelendaEstCarthago1 1 year ago
@DelendaEstCarthago1 But did they break their ties with the Portuguese over their crimes (I'll exclude Spain due to the inquisition) like the way Pope Innocent VII broke Rome's ties with England over the issue of a divorce? Also what about Nicholas V's papal bull "Dum Diversas" later revived by Poper Sixtus IV and the infamous Leo X? I won't deny the Catholic Church played a valuable role in bringing slavery to an end, but it also played a role in causing these problems in the first place.
NotHomelessAnymore 1 year ago
@NotHomelessAnymore
utube: birth certificate + stock market
nowadays it is voluntary slavery
emancipation is jsut a transfer of property from one owner toanother ..
utube : US is a british colony
kdcruz75 1 year ago
Totalmente minimalista!!! O_o
Scylla99 2 years ago
Josquin really was a fine son of a bitch. I love his funky compositions.
rogermoore27 2 years ago 10
Yessss ! funky ! but what a work for the voices !!!
ocwhanappi 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
Nimimerkki666 2 years ago
Beautiful polyphony....
oberones 2 years ago 4
Beautiful and totalitarian.
voxhunden 2 years ago 2
24 voices...
ivelosthewilltolive 2 years ago 2
absolutely gorgeous... flowing like clouds exchanging through time and creative history.. love this!
POLYPHONYOFMYHEART 2 years ago
musica del paradiso !!!!!!!!
pirottino 2 years ago 4
my god this is beautiful! a canon in 6 voices from renaissance :|
Chopinco 2 years ago
Ce n'est pas la renaissace, c'est le moyen age, le XVeme siecle, la fin de la monodie et le début de la polyphonie.
That's not renaissance, this is the Moyen Age, th end of monody and the start of polyphony.
Scuse me for my bad english.
jesuswasahardcore 2 years ago
ou, c'est vrai! Josquin est un des polyphonistes! j'ai un examen d'histoire de la musique ajourd'hui!
Chopinco 2 years ago
nopnop, j'ai vu sur mon libre, et Josquin Des Prez si est Renaissance. comme palestrina et Dufay.
Chopinco 2 years ago
La Renaissance musicale commence à la XVeme siècle. Josquin est un compositeur de l'école franco-flamande (trousième géneration), alors de la renaissance.
brcove 2 years ago
Si pueden escúchelo con un buen equipo de sonido, no en los altavoces del ordenador. En la parte final la voz de los bajos retumba como un profundo tañido de campanas sobre el que reverberan el resto de las voces. Es una auténtica maravilla.
MrSludov 2 years ago
Wonderful! This is an outstanding psalm, thanks!
KyounoGo 2 years ago
According to Van Nevel " The school of flemisch music" in Arras ( what was in Flemisch Burgondy at that time, and called Atrecht ) was like a boarding shool for these composers. They actually grew up there as children, and the music is enormously influenced by the LANDSCAPE they've always seen as a kid. As crazy as this sound: if you knew the waving meadows, with some group of trees of the nowadays N. France and Flanders ( no lakes, no rocky mountains, no wide plains) you'd KNOW he's right!
DePetrick 2 years ago 2
Josquin is a french transformation of the flemish "Josken" which actually means "little Jos"( jos=joseph)
:-)
DePetrick 2 years ago 2
I was born 800 years too late. This is beautiful.
rogermoore27 2 years ago 3
... You would like to meet Josquin's great-great-great-great grandparents? :P
raydutchman 2 years ago 3
Craps! You're right. I ws thinking of Perotin and Leonin...lol. Thanks.
rogermoore27 2 years ago
Wonderful. This man is the 'Beethoven' of the Medieval world while also being active in the early renaissance....
flowforms 2 years ago
Right out of Heaven...Josquin...never to be forgotten..
sjon0 2 years ago 2
Que dire de plus ? Apogée de la musique européenne. Sublime ensemle Huelgas.
1sts118 2 years ago 2
Sublime, je ne peux pas me lasser d'écouter cette musique.
Un soir d'été comme à l'instant est un moment magique, une parenthèse dans le temps.
Je ferme les yeux et me voilà revenu à la Renaissance......
bobduvar 2 years ago 3