He looks sincere...I hope he is, only God can judge this mans heart and if he's truly repented and has Jesus as his Saviour. If he has Jesus as his saviour, he'll be made pure in Christ after death. Law of the land, he should still remain behind bars but at least he has freedom in Christ if he's genuine. Jeffrey Dahmer, Mark D Chapman? I'm not so sure, but again, God knows. At least he seems repentent unlike that demon Charles Manson.
When I saw the FoxNews letter and saw David decided to not seek parole, that signaled to me that he understood real repentance and forgiveness. That's when I watched the 6 part series. What a wonderful thing to see how God has changed David's hear and sould to do good and work out his faith in real actions! ~Bro Stef
I say, thank God that He can change the heart of a killer into a heart controlled by the Holy Spirit and lead that person into doing good and living out the faith God gave him! Shalom and Kol Tuv (Peace and be well) Bro Stef
Please don't let your anger overcome you when writing to non- Christians that don't understand God's wonderful ways. Until they meet and know Jesus they can't possibly understand. Get on your knees and pray for them. That is what God wants us to do. The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make His face to shine upon you and give you peace forever.
fuck all these stupid bassderds that says DB is still evil i believe that this man has change and hes no longer the son of sam he is the son of hope and i have faith in him i hope all you haters do something bad and no one will never see the good in you and see how you like it no matter what sin you commit you can seek redemption and get it its just up to you and haveing faith in your self and jesus will forgive you remember that you no good for nothings
Test him by this: at 3:00 "If it cannot be preached to someone on death row, it is not the Gospel..." David Berkowitz is preaching the full Gospel of Jesus Christ. I started watching the first of the 4 clips and [Christians recognise Christ in each other almost immediately] here was this lovely man giving his testimony. I did not know that he was a murderer but I immediately "recognised" Christ in him. I think u are a precious and beautiful child of God David, and I wish I knew u in person.
He's gonna have to hold this attitude for the rest of his life and hope he doesn't burn in hell. I don't believe this sociopath for one second. If let out of prison, he would go right back to killing. He is a murderer, and he thinks the praying is gonna get him out of prison. But he is mistaken. He is going to die in prison where he belongs. He can't just spend a few years in prison and think it's all good now.
@khalsasikh You're an idiot. He's rejected parole hearings because he doesn't believe he deserves to be let out. People like you make me sick. You do not understand forgiveness at all. Don't act as if you are in a place to judge whether or not someone deserves redemption.
@Christophersboyd I'm glad I make you sick because you're probably just as big a sociopath as Berkowitz. I can judge whoever I want to, especially scumbags like you and Berkowitz.
@khalsasikh hahahah I'm the sociopath? This coming from the guy whose youtube channel is dedicated to his "defense system". Your channel is full weapons. You seem paranoid... and I'm the sociopath? I don't even own a gun. Because I'm not a hunter, nor am I paranoid (or as you may argue, "prepared"). Also, the videos of you working out... kinda gay.
@Christophersboyd Sure go ahead and change the subject. You don't like the videos, don't watch them. I don't care whether you own a gun or not. Paranoid? Okay, I don't care what you think about me either. I've lived long enough to know there are real threats in this world and there are truly evil people like David Berkowitz waiting to assault their next defenseless victim. I hope that son of a bitch burns in HELL. You like him? Go tell that to the families of his victims.
That is A Really Great Story The Son Of Sam Is Now To Son Of Hope, That Just Proves God Can Change Anyones Hearts, And Sometimes I feel like god Is Very Disappointed in me For All The Sin I have But He's Forgiven Me And Sometimes we forget That! I Would Love To Tell This Story To Alot Of People They Would View Him Differently Than What He's known for Btw God Please Forgive Me For All My Sins
@talall2000 "In my flesh dwelleth no good thing." "For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." "Where sin aboundeth, grace does much more abound." (Bible)
@talall2000 you got that right,jesus what do they think we are all sucker,s for this crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!bad to the bone back then and right now!!!!!!!
You are all idiots.Do you honestly think berkowitz beleived in god? Of course he doesnt.Why did he not turn to god after he murdered his first victim? See what im trying to say.Dahmer,bundy,gacy and berkowitz all became born again christians in prison its an act,so that some day they could have a chance of getting out and going back to their old ways.
I feel sorry for the many that can't see the truth here. Someone left a comment in the first clip about DB's body language not supporting his faith. If they had continued to view the rest of this, they would have seen that DB's body language only mirrors what he is saying. And people keep obsessing about "if he were set free...". He won't ever be set free and unlike Manson he's not gathering evil supporters in the outside world. DB and Manson are like polar opposites. DB's story is inspiring.
I'm just saying that people on this forum are continuing to condemn him, and do not believe his testimony, because they are failing to acknowledge the powerful spiritual element behind his conversion. Is this any surprise considering the world we live in, which rejects Jesus Christ and dismisses any spiritual activity as mythological and inconsequential?
that drama teacher musn't be very good at acting. She can't even fake a convincing cry, so how on earth does she have any chance in spreading the word of a book written by men, claiming it to be God's word? Idiots.
david is condemned forever..in the eyes of God and man..there is no forgiving of taking human life..however, if he can help change someone elses life that that is good..but no amount of good that he does now can ever make up for what he did
I'm sorry you believe this but God promised us that if we believe he gave his only begotton son to die for us that all our sins whether be murder or lusting in your heart will be forgiven. If you truly believe and try and behave as Jesus would than God will hear your prayers. If you really do not believe and live on your own wisdom than he will not hear your prayers.
i dont know what god you are following but its not the god of the bible, the god of the bible forgives everyone who will turn to him and repent, and make god lord of there life, i prime example of this was jesus was on the cross, what did he say, forgive them for they know not what they do, he was even offering forgiveness to those who would except, and not to hold to them forever, what about paul in the bible, paul killed more christians than you could believe, but god forgave him and changed
I'm sorry ... why would I spend so much of my time arguing with an idiot? You're an ignorant individual - this much you've made abundantly clear. It's truly a shame when someone is so arrogant in their ignorance. I'm embarrassed for you.
Only to an idiot who doesn't seem to get it. Pay close attention, kid.
1. Glad that "God" has apparently changed his life for the better. However,
2. "Repentance" doesn't cancel consequence. Anyone who believes otherwise hasn't paid close attention.
I couldn't care less who or what David Berkowitz has become. I know the family of one of the victims. They have to live with the pain he's caused every day.
If you don't get that, you're every bit as dumb as you portray yourself to be.
We're not talking about "forgetting" by the way...
I think you're just trying way to hard to say that he's a bad guy.
Did I agree with anyone? No.
I said that Stacy Moskowitz's mother forgave him, and she did.
To say that he doesn't seem to "care" is pretty ignorant and ignoring the truth, no one knows if he truly is sorry but himself, but he seems to be proving that he cares a bit.
I think people are missing the point here. It's not about God, It's not about the Devil, It's not about Jesus and it's not about religion. Berkowitz is doing his best to focus on something more positive than something 'less than positive'. All this religious opinions debatable politics are pointless. Simple question, would you rather have someone wanting to murder or violate you or have someone respect your existing humanity?
you dunno what he did?..he shot and killed 6 people and wounded 7 others with a .44 handgun in New York city in the late 70's..he's the son of sam..he terrorized a city of over 3 million people.
lmao deftone. Sorry to say buddy but why should 3 million + people be scared of one man? People today should learn to stop fearing 1 individual and rise up together and help out each other to have a better community, to make the world a better place. And that presupposes that if everyone focused on doing positive activities then the world might actually be a peaceful place to live in. Most serial killers I don't forgive because they haven't shown a genuine communication in remorse and change.
the smart choice is to be the lost sheep they talk about in the bible. better to be pitied by lunatics then accepted and be responsible for condemning others to hell. better to be loved by the lunatics than unaccepted and murdered or condemned for beliefs that differ from their own. i'm just an innocent bystander in your holy wars. and if i'm wrong..i'll just say i'm sorry and be in heaven w/ you either way. :D
with all due respect, your theory has a major hole in it: you can't ask for forgiveness once you are dead. the decision to ask Christ for forgiveness is only available for the living.
I have found the principle of Pascal's Wager to be helpful in thinking about such things.
Pascal was obviously an atheist. His wager is merely an attempt to not be accused of being a heretic and murdered by the church. Hell, back in the 1600's i would've done the same thing. Better to say you believe and nothing happen, than say you don't believe and be put to death.
ya ya, i know i'm a heretic and i know how 500 years ago you would've chopped off my head. thank god you guys don't do that anymore publicly. now you have people like david berkowitz do it privately. i don't want anything to do with a club a loves to hurt people. hell / christianity is all about death, pain and suffering. and will be for a long time.
"Christianity is about death, pain and suffering"? i'm afraid you are confused about what Christianity really is. It is about forgiveness, eternal life and a complete lack of suffering.
Too bad he couldn't find Christ before he decided to go blow holes through the innocent in New York city. I wonder how the victim's family members would feel to see this murderer revelling in his new found Christianity, at peace with himself yet the absence of their loved ones and the pain in their hearts can't simply be dissolved by waving a bible in front of THEIR faces.
Despicable character. If its not a dog that is talking to him , its 1st century superstitions and sky gods. It's just that this particular delusion is acceptable (even if its violence is masked in 'love'), too bad for his victims and the families that can never forgive him that he has a bunch of self serving fanatics who give him a new delusion to make this garbage feel powerful again instead of the inconsequential ugly little man he was back in '77 and is now. Who made this should be ashamed.
Not everyone w/the pre-disposition acts on it. Typically, abuse, trauma, identity confusion, etc. can push someone over the edge. Then again, BTK and Dahmer had fairly normal childhoods so who knows!??! There's a HUGE difference in a serial murderer like DB and the rest of society. There's no comparison. DB's entire existence is based on lies, manipulation, and inflicting his own misery on others. Don't be fooled - he would kill you in a heartbeat if he could get away w/it.
I'm not a psychologist but I definitely believe that a psychopath/sociopath is born with a certain pre-disposition toward violence and harmful/dangerous behavior. My "hope" is that society recognizes these liars/manipulators for what they are and does what is necessary to protect the rest of us. Berkowitz is a born liar and I firmly believe this is all an act. The same goes for Tex Watson and 99% of all the other jailhouse converts.
So a person born with a pre-disposition towards violence and dangerous behavior should just be disgraced his entire life? There's no hope for him and he should just be looked down upon by society? Out of all due respect,sounds like bigotry to me. For the record, we're all born liars,b/c we're all born sinners. You, like me and everyone else, has lied before. Have you stolen anything,looked with lust,coveted,hated someone? Sure you've done some of those things.You break one of God's laws,(cont.)
When he was killing, he sent letters to neighbors/cops/press filled with violence, threats, taunts, satanic cults, etc. He was manipulating the situation; out-smarting police, terrifying an entire city, etc. The attention made him feel clever/important. Now, he's doing the same thing but his letters and actions are about God and religion. It brings him attention and makes him feel smart by manipulating people. It's the same thing but with a different means of manipulation.
I respect your opinion b/c you obviously believe what you are saying. You are as convinced your view is correct as I am that mine is correct. Luckily, DB is locked away so people can judge for themselves w/out him running loose.
I am the first to admit that SOS killings were horrible. DB was a very disturbed man. He doesn't deserve to ever be set free. Oddly, DB does not feel he even deserves to be alive based on his crimes. But NY doesn't have the death penalty.
The central message of our doc is one of hope, that anyone can find forgiveness for anything through Christ.
Of course there are still consequences to sin after forgiveness. DB will be in prison all his life b/c his crimes.
Inertia Films -- So many people are missing the point because they are not taking into consideration the supernatural elements involved here. DB is a changed man because of Jesus Christ. He did those horrific crimes because he was influenced by Satan. If people would take this very important spiritual factor into consideration, they would not be so quick to dismiss the change that has so obviously taken place in his life.
What I'm saying is that DB is a psychopath and a psychopath does not experience these emotions. And you're not a psychopath one day but not the next. He will always be psychotic. He's doing what these people do; they fool people. And look at the attention he's getting - that's what he wants. Remember how he smiled after his arrest? Same thing here. This makes him feel like he's important. He's just repeating the same pattern over and over again.
A psychopath - which is what David is - is, by definition, not capable of remorse/regret unless it's for themselves. Who told you the Evans letters are fake? DB? They are genuine. Also, in televised interviews, DB claimed that a cult committed the murders and he was not responsible for all of them. He made up the 'Demon Sam' motive, then admitted it was a lie. And he is lying now. Lying is his pattern. He is manipulating you and laughing about it later. And why not? He has nothing but time.
You still didn't answer my question: how do you know that DB is not capable of regret? How? I give you first hand accounts of his new life in Christ.
In fact, I have produced an entire documentary with interviews, names, dates, testimonies, police witnesses from men that hated him - yet believe him now, and over 350hours of research backing up my claims. That is evidence! What you have is your opinion. DB was a deeply disturbed man that has led a changed life since 1987 when he met Christ.
And for the record, DB describes in detail his "relationship" w/ Gary Evans in his prison journal book. So, one is left to believe either:
1. those who found these so-called letters (kites) of a man who went on kill (5) more people then killed himself, or
2. a man (DB) who has been a model inmate for 21 years. I have personally talked to prison guards who have every reason to hate DBs guts yet say...the man is changed, he is different. Prior to 1987 DB was a liar, con-man...but not since.
Again, he's not capable of feeling regret or sorrow unless it's for himself. He's a psychopath and nothing - not God, not therapy, not meds - can change that. As for parole, DB had no life whatsoever on the outside. He was miserable in society so he might as well stay where he is. He's conning you. Read his letters to fellow serial killer Gary Evans. Also, maybe you can ask DB why, after his conversion, he continued to change his version of the murders (why he did it, did he act alone, etc.).
So, my question is: how do you know that DB is not capable of regret? or sorrow? What first hand evidence would you bring forth? have you visited him in prison. I have. I have talked with him dozens of times, and exchanged 100+ letters.
With all due respect, i think i am more qualified to speak to his ability to express regret.
DB hasn't changed his version of the murders. NYPD just never released a lot of info that DB gave.
the gary evans thing is a lie made to discredit DB.
So what you're saying is that if you're born a psychopath,nothing can help you and you're doomed to be heartless for the rest of your life. Sounds like a great message of hope. If what you're saying is true, does hope even exist?
This is ridiculous. Berkowitz is a psychopath and this is just another con. He is a pathological liar and manipulator. These people believe him b/c they want to believe; which makes them perfect pawns for DB. Read some of the letters he's written (especially to fellow prisoners) since his "conversion" and it's obvious he's just as twisted as he used to be.
Ridiculous? His pattern since 1987 is nothing but sorrow and regret over his crimes.
I personally have over 100 letters from David. His prison journals have been published. I have that as well. More regret.
He wrote to then NY Gov. Pataki asking to not be given parole--not that he can get parole. He has written to all the families of his victims expressing sorrow.
I have visited him in prison & he is a model prisoner according to guards. DB is a changed man by the grace of God.
the chicken or the egg, someone had to invent the chicken so that it could make eggs. or invent the egg so that there can be a chickens. you have the right to your belief but you better be right
So, did you notice that spraynard asked me if i was running out of things to say, and then didn't respond to my questions? He won't tell me what is: science, truth, right, wrong, etc. He obviously is avoiding the questions because there are no good answers.
Further, he accuses me of "preaching" by "preaching" so-called science to me. He tells me I am "wrong" and gives me no basis for what is "right". And did you notice he never tells me what "science" is? He only distracts w/ profanity?
I completely agree with you. Most atheists on here can't intelligently defend their position, which is why they often come on here cussing and name calling. If there is no God, and we'll all be forgotten after death anyway, then why do they even care whether or not we believe?
Yeah, my favorite response from atheists (and those that do not believe in moral absolutes) is when they say there are is no "right" and "wrong"...and then tell me my beliefs are "wrong." Makes no sense whatsoever.
Or, when I ask where they get their sense of right and wrong, they say everyone decides what is right/wrong for themselves.....and then they tell me i'm wrong. And, i get a lot of how I have no intelligence or reasoning. funny, if it weren't so sad.
Also the same can be said about epilepsy and sxkitzophenia which appear on MRI scans as damage to certain parts of the brain.Again though many xhristians still will not believe that its not demon possesion even though the proof is in the MRI test results.Dont get me wrong science is far from perfect and many blunders have benn made in the name of science.Evolution being 1 of them.I just cant see a reptile morphing into a bird.lol
Do you believe in earthquakes, the wind, hurricanes, tornados, sunshine, oxygen, or thunder?
Have you ever seen your heart, or liver, or kidney? Maybe a doctor has, but you yourself.
How about obedience, or anger, or jealousy, or devotion, or any emotion? Do you believe these things exist?
You don't see any of these things. You see the effects of these things, but not the actual things. Yet you have FAITH that they exist without actually seeing them in person.
Read a science textbook, that'll explain all the things you just said. I'm not a scientologist or any of that bullshit, but seriously man, everything goes back to science. Once again, until Jesus or god or w/e is physically standing in front of me talking and moving, it's all a bunch of crap. You need to get some friends and stop reading the bible all day.
My point is you have never seen any of those things, and yet, you believe in them all. You have faith that they are real.
So you do believe in LOTS of things you have never seen, and yet you criticize me for doing the same. That's a contradiction.
All goes back to science? I could easily use your same logic: were you there at the beginning of time? Did you see evolution start? Where did the particles for the so- called "Big Bang" come from?
God isn't making earthquakes start, he's not making the wind, he's not making the sun shine, he's not starting hurricanes or thunder, and he sure as hell is providing us with oxygen, all of those come about from scientific process'. You've been brainwashed by the catholic church. When you're dead, that's it. You rot in the ground. End of story.
What the fuck do you mean, what is science?? It's involved in everything that's happening around you, and at least their's proof for it, and lot's of proof at that. Now as far as proof that their's a god, there isn't much. Your replies are becoming filled with a lot less of that preaching bullshit, are you running out of things to say to me??
Sorry, I couldn't answer you, while you were sitting around praying and preaching, I was out having a life. You're trying to be all deep and mysterious by asking me these retarded fuckin questions. Everything you know, you learned by reading books and other useless crap, but you've never sat and talked with god face to face. Other than what you've read in books, what's your evidence showing that there is a god? You sound much crazier than I do, sorry to tell you.
It is sad that you don't have any answers to life's most important questions. You can't tell me what you base truth or right or wrong on.
Well, your view is called relativism. It means each person decides for himself what is right/wrong. Therefore you can't say that I am "Wrong" because you can't me what "wrong" is. You have your opinions based on you and nothing else.
Creation screams there is a God!! Springtime. Sunrise. Newborn baby. An apple. Planets in orbit. Ocean's tides.
Ok jesus freak, settle down now. I'm not wrong in anything I've said, you show me a picture of you and god and I'll believe you, until then shut up and get back in your padded room you psycho. Go out and get a job, you have way too much time on your hands to think about all this stupid nonsense that you're talking about. God isn't real, get over it.
You can't logically tell me I'm "wrong" (or nuts or psycho) because you have nothing on which to base "right" & "wrong".
So stop telling people they are "wrong" about anything b/c "everyone is right about everything."
As an atheist that is your worldview, that nothing has meaning--so why not murder, rape, steal? If you say b/c of the "law" then might makes "right." And that is Nazi Germany, Stalin's Russia, Pol Pot's Cambodia.
Hahahahaha, my worldview is shifting sand with no meaning, hahahahaha, I'm totally writing that down as one of the lamest things I've ever heard. Have fun there psychopath, jesus freak!! You're dead wrong, I'm right, you just cant admit it. Sucks to be you hahahahah!
the chicken or the egg someone had to invent the chicken for there to be a egg or an egg for there to be a chicken. you have the right to your belief but you better be right
Ah, no one ever seen God? ...but you're wrong. Jesus is God and walked the earth for 33 years. We was seen by thousands of people. In fact, 300 people saw him after his resurrection!!! This amazing fact is even reported by non-Christian sources. That's evidence. His miracles reported by secular sources. Evidence. Dead Sea Scrolls. Evidence! A changed peaceful life like Berkowitz. Evidence!
So, you still haven't told me where you get your sense of "right" & "wrong"?
Yea great. He found god. Woo Hoo! Hey, remember when he killed all those people back in the 70's?? Yeaa, god doesn't forgive and forget shit like that. I love how people justify the fucked up things they do by saying "god has forgiven me", how the fuck would you know if he has? As far as I'm concerned this guy has a one way ticket straight to hell, no matter how much "faith" he might have.
So how do know God hasn't forgiven him? I think Christians would say we know God has forgiven us because His word says He will. Of course, along with that belief is the belief that God's word is infallable.
So what evidence do you point to say that you know Berkowitz is not forgiven?
What evidence to you point to even say that there is a god?? Just because you think you can communicate with god doesn't mean you actually are...it might just mean you're fuckin nuts.
You just called me "nuts" in profanic terms, and earlier said said that Berkowitz "has a one way ticket to hell."
Ah, so you believe in hell. Hell is a place for people that do "wrong" things. Because there is a "wrong" there must, by pure logic, also be a "right." That "right" is God.
Evidence that there is a God screams out in abundant every minute. If there were no God then there would be no right & wrong. If you say I am wrong/nuts then there must be a moral law giver--God.
Please understand that I see that once you are pressed for an answer to why you believe there is no God, you have no answer except personal, profanic verbal attacks.
I gave you evidence for a God. In fact your further insults strengthen my point even further. However,you gave me no evidence that there isn't a God.
The unescapeable truth is: if you say there is no God then you have become your own "God", and thus self destructed your own arguement.
I just want to thank you for putting together and posting this amazing story. I am deeply moved. I think we all need to be reminded that God's power and grace are truly beyond what we could ask or think. The testimony of David Berkowitz puts me in mind of the miraculous conversion of the demoniac in Mark chapter 5. How glorious. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ. And I know I need God's forgiveness just as much as David did. The heart is wicked, but God's love is even greater than our sin.
Thanks for posting this story on David Berkowitz. I'm glad he found the Lord. Could you tell me if A&E's "Biography" had ever done his story? If so, could you post that one, as well?
The 1998 A&E "Biography" program only talks about the "Son of Sam" killings/case/chaos. It doesn't deal with David's conversion to Christianity. It's only all the bad stuff.
We produced this "Forgiven for Life" story which gives hope to us all.
Thank you. It's too bad if "Biography" doesn't even mention David's conversion to Christianity. My thought was that since "Biography" is very familiar to many people, it might be a MORE powerful testimony to the healing power of Jesus Christ if ALL the dark, depressing, and evil stuff is exposed first, and then the bright transformation by the Lord in David is shown in STARK contrast. I can understand not wanting to dwell on the dark and evil stuff, though.
I'm not impressed with David's testimony as I am in the fact that all of the justified anger, punishment and hatred his victims families feel, was actually poured out on God's own son.
To Pailung, I am a Christian. I wasn't one until I was 23. It takes one to know one. Whether you want to believe it or not, this man has been forgiven, and I can see it. I was once quite a hellraiser, and now I am a heavenraiser because of Jesus.
Yes, understanding the forgiveness that only Christ offers truly is setting the captives (to sin) free. I too have been set free from the bondage of sin because of Christ's atoning sacrafice.
If one hasn't experienced this freedom, it will never make complete sense. My hope is that as many as possible experience this freedom in Christ. That's why we made this documentary.
what a bunch of HORSE SHIT!! This show is more mentally ill than Berkowitz himself. LOL oh how has he got all you pinheads fooled. There is no remorse in him,for the lives he ended,there is no other accountablility other than David HIMSELF. He was and still IS in control of everything he has done. no demons, no satan, the only demon is that which is HIM and Him alone. If he was trule remorseful he would have ended his life or allowed the state to do so. i think NY would have made an exception.
I think NY would have made an exception in his case, despite the bleeding hearts and religious pundents that tend to side with the rights of serial killers rather than the families of the victims, or the victims themselves, who speaks for them? oh and i base my opinion on the lives he ended brutally in 1977. oh did we forget about that?
oh yeah it was satan that did it, no accountability other than suseptability to tha debbil,LOL!!! Giime a break and wake up.
So, you are advocating NY 'case by case' adminstration of the law. Not very practical.
"There is no remorse in him..." Again i ask you ask you based on what???
I have known David for over eight years and he is full of remorse. He has been saying he is sorry for 21 years.
And David is pro death penalty (DP). If NY had a DP he is willing to pay with his life. David has written each of the victim's families expressing his sorrow.
you know i am not buying it for one second. so you know him eh? wow im impressed. ill bet your charity and forgiveness has earned you a spot in heaven,right there next to dahmer and bundy and lucas and toole and all the rest who found jeeeeezusss,before the end. christ is surrounded by such worthy souls. Berkowitz may have you and all the other obsessed jesus freaks fooled,but those of us who exist in reality, know better. it's all propaganda and fame and a dog and pony show.
as for my being "worthy"-- you are exactly right. According to scripture "There is not one righteous. No not one. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
That includes everyone: me, you, berkowitz and everyone in between.
So, may i ask: what do you believe happens to you when you die, as we all will one day?
and further, where do you determine what is "right" & "wrong"?
sure you can ask, and my response is "its none of your business,my spiritual life is PRIVATE and for me and me alone, not to be broadcast or worn on my sleeve". as to what i determine what is right and wrong? the issue is too complex for youtube,and will not enable the discussion to go further than it has already. I still stand by what i said earlier. "im not buying it for one second"
the real issue is, what if your "spiritual life" is not really "private" at all. What if it is public before a holy God? what if there is a God that holds you/us accountable for sin. what if He demands payment for sin ?
WOW! What a wonderful witnessing piece! Very encouraging. God is SO GOOD! :) I'm an editor and I respect your use of the medium to glorify Jesus. God Bless! By the way, I respect your steadfast and respectful replies to any and all guests.
My question is this: WHY HASN'T DAVID EXPOSED THOSE WHO HELPED HIM MURDER THESE SOULS??
The evil souls in the Process Church (Satanic) are also responsible for murders & others Satanic evils. He knows who they are.
The reason he plead guilty was so that no trial would be held. The 'lone nut' theory got much play in the press & by Satanists who run the government.
David did report/expose those involved in the SOS killings in 1976. All of the people involved in those murders are now dead, with the except of one woman. In large part the NYPD chose to not pursue them to quiet the hysteria surrounding the case. So, the NYPD got their man--the Son of Sam--so to speak.
Where did you get this information? I read the book on this large case: THE ULTIMATE EVIL by Maury Terry. Because of this book, Queens District Attorney John J. Santucci reopened the case!
As I said, David plead guilty to keep the names out of the records. Nowhere in the book did I read any names disclosed by David.
i know that maury terry is no longer on speaking terms with david b. david and i have spoken about his relationship with mr terry on a few occasions. i prefer to leave it all that.
as for my information, i got it from david himself, bob alexander--a prison guard at attica, someone whom i can't mention by name at the NYPD, and a former NJ police officer.
Listening to more of David's testimony, I am more sure of what I said below. David did not get saved until 10 years after being incarcerated. He certainly did not give up his cult co-murderers when he was arrested, for he was the fall-guy, the patsy. According to THE ULTIMATE EVIL book by Maury Terry, he still has not named names.
Your understanding of this case, InertiaFilms, is incorrect, as far as I can see & research.
If I have to choose between a repentent, born-again believer in Christ, and a non-believer selling a book---i'll take the repentent believer.
Further, I have primary sources other than Berkowitz---that worked on the SOS case in NYC--that hated Berkowitz at the time---that corroberate his telling of the events.
Further, I have primary, first hand reports of Mr Terry's conduct during the writing of his book. That's all I have to say on the matter.
Thank you for your candid response. I have not met or conversed with David, so I only have the information shared. I have your testimony now.
Getting saved is one thing - 'reproving the unfruitful works of darkness' by name - naming the souls responsible individually is another thing and requires more 'digging' & prayer & courage from what I have seen in my ministry to very evil souls.
Too late to change David I'm afraid, he is a strange bloke no doubt... wow the girl talking about satan's hand and God's is a joke!! She must be taking the mick surely?? I wonder what the victim's families would think of this garbage?
American Christianity, what a load of bollix! Berkowitz murdering wanker. Bush was told by God to invade Iraq!! Think of the families he ruined, he should have been remved from the planet. Sick of this Christianity excuse for murderers and Im an Irish Catholic! We had 30 years of war on this island due to religion. As Marx said "religion is the opium of the masses". Very true. I presume this video is a pisstake anyway
Sounds like perhaps you have confused "Christianity" with "religion." They are exactly opposite. Even Jesus rebuked the "religious" pharises. Christianity is God reaching man; religion is man attempting to reach god.
Your rejection of Christ and yet defense of Karl Marx is, uh, interesting.
Hello,something is for sure,he cannot cheat on GOD and his son JESUS,if he really found GOD and JESUS in his heart,good for him,he leave behind a lot of tragedies for a lot of people,inocent people.
I am from Southamerica and time ago a read about him and everything that he did,so i hope he is under GOD'mercy.
Christ served the sentence for your sins. He paid the penalty. you are a prisoner in a cell, bound by your sin. The warden comes to you and hands you a pardon for your sins, signed by Jesus Christ, declaring that you are now free from the penalty of your sin, and can go free. But you get stubborn and say, I'd rather keep my sins. I like me the way I am. So you insist on staying in your sin. You have refused to accept the pardon.
Yes, I agree. I think this is the state of all mankind, enslaved to sin. "There is none that is righteousness, no not one. All that sinned and fall short of the glory of God," according to Romans 3.
But my quesiton is: if Christ truly died for everyone's sins, then why do people still go to hell; because unbelief (refusing to accept the pardon) is a sin?
I've enjoyed this discussion, but my ideas are rather elaborate and discussing them within YouTube's word limit is quite troublesome. I don't think I can do them justice here so I'll bow out now. It's been interesting.
It is God Himself Who defines Right and Wrong, and we can never get away from the reward of doing right or the punishment for doing wrong. But Jesus offers forgiveness and new life for those who turn away from Wrong and follow Him. Jesus paid the price for David's sins, and gave him newness of life. He paid the price for your sin, and you sit there and argue about it. Isn't Heaven better than Hell?Why do you get mad when a man is delivered from Hell to Heaven?
I truly cannot understand how the forgiveness of this heinous murderer is something to be admired. In the warped ideas of Christian morality, there is apparently no wrong or right, no good or bad. Only belief and disbelief.
No "wrong or right, no good or bad" in Christian morality? I must say I've never heard that belief about Christians before.
But, with a name that implies no belief in God (atheist), and a belief that Berkowitz's acts were "heinous", may I ask where you get your sense of wrong & right, good & bad?
So what if the action causes one person to be happy, and concomitantly another person experiences anger, pain and sadness (like adultery, or pedophilia, or stealing? Then who is right & wrong ?
Right & wrong was determined long before I was born. I willing submit to Christ and God's revealed Word, the Bible. I believe in moral absolutes as determined by God and His Word.
Otherwise, everyone determines for themselves what is "right" & "wrong" which results in chaos, anarchy and confusion? Then there is no standard, no morals and everthing is permissable.
Right and wrong need not be set in stone by a transcendent authority to avoid moral chaos. I've given you a standard that is perfectly functional without a god. It was not set down by a god but neither does it allow anyone to do as they please. It is based upon patterns and interactions that are common to all human experience. Certain behaviors are good for society and some are not.
Your morality model is not clear or functional. How much happiness or suffering an action causes cannot seriously be the basis of good and evil.
By that definition breaking up with a girlfriend is evil, getting a flu shot is evil (it causes suffering).
And, concerning morality, who determines what "rights" and "dignity" are? Your morality model is unworkable. It doesn't allow for moral absolutes. Everyone is free to do whatever they want. Chaos.
You misunderstand. I was very careful to use words like "needless" and "excessive" to qualify suffering.
"who determines..."
Not who, but what. As I said before, patterns common to all human experience. "Right" depends on the welfare of the human being and human society which, I repeat, does NOT allow anyone to do what they want.
I do not see how a god would solve any of these problems. If God exists, then who decides that we should do has he says? God? Sounds circular.
This needless pain & suffering morality is only your definition. (Another atheist who wrote me had no problem with Hitler, Stalin, Hussein). Your reasoning has no lowest common denominator. Who/what/common pattern doesn't matter. Some "patterns common" today were not common 50, 150, 500 years ago.
My worldview has a Lawgiver, a Judge, a setter of morality that is consistent for all people, all places & all times.
Humans living together in tribes, cooperating to get resources and protect one another, is the basic pattern that has existed through all human history. Good is what's beneficial for welfare of the tribe and the people in it. This gives us the Golden Rule and common rules against murder, rape, theft, torture, etc.
The basic pattern of human history is the exact opposite of "cooperating" & protecting one another. Those that seem to cooperate do so as enlightened self interest.
Again, your model doesn't hold up. Nazi Germany protected the "welfare of the tribe & the people in it." They protected other Germans, and killed six million Jews along the way. Unless a moral absolute is held up (thou shall not murder), the result is mayhem, murder & lawlessness.
Self interest is an important factor as it ensures the well-being of the individual. But true empathy and altruism are real and were necessary for the well-being of our primitve ancestors. Otherwise, we wouldn't be here today. Enlightened self-interest is a counterintuitive, complex, and new idea that our ancestors couldn't have. Instinctive empathy is the best explanation.
Your example is invalid for several reasons. I define "tribe" as individuals interacting, not a nationality. The Nazis can't randomly pick who's in and out. Also, the Jews were not a real threat.
Tribe; but a nationality is made up of individuals.
Of course the Nazis decided who was "in" & "out." They lined up Jews and other groups, included Christians, and said you're out---kill them. Others they spared (in) for the work camps/gulags. The Nazis even tried to genetically rig individuals for a master race.
"Needless" pain is quite easy to define. Just ask "Can we get similar benefit through less suffering?" and "Is the benefit worth the pain?" Minimizing pain is key.
Having a "common denominator" of morality is, in fact, a weakness. It trivializes the needs of individuals in favor of rigid dogma. Morals need to be flexible enough to help those with unique needs.
I hope a Black lab shoots him with a .44
leemoore99 4 months ago
He looks sincere...I hope he is, only God can judge this mans heart and if he's truly repented and has Jesus as his Saviour. If he has Jesus as his saviour, he'll be made pure in Christ after death. Law of the land, he should still remain behind bars but at least he has freedom in Christ if he's genuine. Jeffrey Dahmer, Mark D Chapman? I'm not so sure, but again, God knows. At least he seems repentent unlike that demon Charles Manson.
MichaelGibney 4 months ago
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When I saw the FoxNews letter and saw David decided to not seek parole, that signaled to me that he understood real repentance and forgiveness. That's when I watched the 6 part series. What a wonderful thing to see how God has changed David's hear and sould to do good and work out his faith in real actions! ~Bro Stef
BrotherStef 6 months ago
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I say, thank God that He can change the heart of a killer into a heart controlled by the Holy Spirit and lead that person into doing good and living out the faith God gave him! Shalom and Kol Tuv (Peace and be well) Bro Stef
BrotherStef 6 months ago
Please don't let your anger overcome you when writing to non- Christians that don't understand God's wonderful ways. Until they meet and know Jesus they can't possibly understand. Get on your knees and pray for them. That is what God wants us to do. The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make His face to shine upon you and give you peace forever.
caragana5 6 months ago 2
fuck all these stupid bassderds that says DB is still evil i believe that this man has change and hes no longer the son of sam he is the son of hope and i have faith in him i hope all you haters do something bad and no one will never see the good in you and see how you like it no matter what sin you commit you can seek redemption and get it its just up to you and haveing faith in your self and jesus will forgive you remember that you no good for nothings
darthdragonking 6 months ago
God forgives. David really looks genuinely sincere.
element80rocks 9 months ago
Test him by this: at 3:00 "If it cannot be preached to someone on death row, it is not the Gospel..." David Berkowitz is preaching the full Gospel of Jesus Christ. I started watching the first of the 4 clips and [Christians recognise Christ in each other almost immediately] here was this lovely man giving his testimony. I did not know that he was a murderer but I immediately "recognised" Christ in him. I think u are a precious and beautiful child of God David, and I wish I knew u in person.
kelkiewyn 9 months ago
He's gonna have to hold this attitude for the rest of his life and hope he doesn't burn in hell. I don't believe this sociopath for one second. If let out of prison, he would go right back to killing. He is a murderer, and he thinks the praying is gonna get him out of prison. But he is mistaken. He is going to die in prison where he belongs. He can't just spend a few years in prison and think it's all good now.
khalsasikh 9 months ago
@khalsasikh You're an idiot. He's rejected parole hearings because he doesn't believe he deserves to be let out. People like you make me sick. You do not understand forgiveness at all. Don't act as if you are in a place to judge whether or not someone deserves redemption.
Christophersboyd 7 months ago
@Christophersboyd I'm glad I make you sick because you're probably just as big a sociopath as Berkowitz. I can judge whoever I want to, especially scumbags like you and Berkowitz.
khalsasikh 7 months ago
@khalsasikh hahahah I'm the sociopath? This coming from the guy whose youtube channel is dedicated to his "defense system". Your channel is full weapons. You seem paranoid... and I'm the sociopath? I don't even own a gun. Because I'm not a hunter, nor am I paranoid (or as you may argue, "prepared"). Also, the videos of you working out... kinda gay.
Christophersboyd 7 months ago
@Christophersboyd Sure go ahead and change the subject. You don't like the videos, don't watch them. I don't care whether you own a gun or not. Paranoid? Okay, I don't care what you think about me either. I've lived long enough to know there are real threats in this world and there are truly evil people like David Berkowitz waiting to assault their next defenseless victim. I hope that son of a bitch burns in HELL. You like him? Go tell that to the families of his victims.
khalsasikh 7 months ago
That is A Really Great Story The Son Of Sam Is Now To Son Of Hope, That Just Proves God Can Change Anyones Hearts, And Sometimes I feel like god Is Very Disappointed in me For All The Sin I have But He's Forgiven Me And Sometimes we forget That! I Would Love To Tell This Story To Alot Of People They Would View Him Differently Than What He's known for Btw God Please Forgive Me For All My Sins
LilRock25 9 months ago
Amazing. Very moving.
southwoodside 1 year ago
Thanks for airing. Son of hope is indeed sharing his faith with others, as he wants to.
julieification 1 year ago
Y'know, I read somewhere that he made up the "demons possessed me" thing.
MrXmyselfx 1 year ago
I just cant buy it!!!! If you were capable of killing then your bad to the bone
talall2000 1 year ago
@talall2000 "In my flesh dwelleth no good thing." "For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." "Where sin aboundeth, grace does much more abound." (Bible)
julieification 1 year ago
@talall2000 you got that right,jesus what do they think we are all sucker,s for this crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!bad to the bone back then and right now!!!!!!!
barnfresh60 1 year ago
You are all idiots.Do you honestly think berkowitz beleived in god? Of course he doesnt.Why did he not turn to god after he murdered his first victim? See what im trying to say.Dahmer,bundy,gacy and berkowitz all became born again christians in prison its an act,so that some day they could have a chance of getting out and going back to their old ways.
vipmousasi 1 year ago
@vipmousasi and how do you know that
darthdragonking 6 months ago
I feel sorry for the many that can't see the truth here. Someone left a comment in the first clip about DB's body language not supporting his faith. If they had continued to view the rest of this, they would have seen that DB's body language only mirrors what he is saying. And people keep obsessing about "if he were set free...". He won't ever be set free and unlike Manson he's not gathering evil supporters in the outside world. DB and Manson are like polar opposites. DB's story is inspiring.
victoriak68 1 year ago
Comment removed
victoriak68 1 year ago
I'm just saying that people on this forum are continuing to condemn him, and do not believe his testimony, because they are failing to acknowledge the powerful spiritual element behind his conversion. Is this any surprise considering the world we live in, which rejects Jesus Christ and dismisses any spiritual activity as mythological and inconsequential?
Born2bRedeemed 2 years ago
Let him back out on the streets and he would be shooting and killing innocent people within a month!!!!! So be to God!!!!!
joetrez 2 years ago
let him on the streets and he would be shooting and killing within a month!! So be to god
joetrez 2 years ago
Uhm....I wrote to this guy...I haven't gotten anything back yet, lol.
:(
HelterSkelter951 2 years ago
that drama teacher musn't be very good at acting. She can't even fake a convincing cry, so how on earth does she have any chance in spreading the word of a book written by men, claiming it to be God's word? Idiots.
spiderliam 2 years ago
The Fires are Stoked and Satan him's STILL Awaitin,,for David Berkowitz.
PaiLung 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Fool christians.
eydos 2 years ago
7. They say, "The LORD does not see;
the God of Jacob pays no heed."
8. Take heed, you senseless ones among the people; you fools, when will you become wise?
9. Does he who implanted the ear not hear? Does he who formed the eye not see?
10. Does he who disciplines nations not punish? Does he who teaches man lack knowledge?
11. The LORD knows the thoughts of man; he knows that they are futile.
Psalm 95: 7-11
InertiaFilms 2 years ago
hey say god suppose to forgive no matter what...but i dont know about this
crimsonblade111 2 years ago
The condition for forgiveness from God is that you repent of your sins and believe that Christ is the Son of God.
InertiaFilms 2 years ago
david is condemned forever..in the eyes of God and man..there is no forgiving of taking human life..however, if he can help change someone elses life that that is good..but no amount of good that he does now can ever make up for what he did
maldoman23 3 years ago
I'm sorry you believe this but God promised us that if we believe he gave his only begotton son to die for us that all our sins whether be murder or lusting in your heart will be forgiven. If you truly believe and try and behave as Jesus would than God will hear your prayers. If you really do not believe and live on your own wisdom than he will not hear your prayers.
hrabovs 2 years ago
i dont know what god you are following but its not the god of the bible, the god of the bible forgives everyone who will turn to him and repent, and make god lord of there life, i prime example of this was jesus was on the cross, what did he say, forgive them for they know not what they do, he was even offering forgiveness to those who would except, and not to hold to them forever, what about paul in the bible, paul killed more christians than you could believe, but god forgave him and changed
greatestgiftis 2 years ago
but they say god forgives no matter what as long as u really mean it
crimsonblade111 2 years ago
I'm sorry ... why would I spend so much of my time arguing with an idiot? You're an ignorant individual - this much you've made abundantly clear. It's truly a shame when someone is so arrogant in their ignorance. I'm embarrassed for you.
pansycar 3 years ago
It's not about spending time on anything, cause obviously you are, you've replied what? 3 times?
You so far have made NO point or even stated any facts to prove ANYTHING.
We get it that you're embarrassed for alot of people, do you enjoy repeating yourself?
shitdood 3 years ago
Only to an idiot who doesn't seem to get it. Pay close attention, kid.
1. Glad that "God" has apparently changed his life for the better. However,
2. "Repentance" doesn't cancel consequence. Anyone who believes otherwise hasn't paid close attention.
I couldn't care less who or what David Berkowitz has become. I know the family of one of the victims. They have to live with the pain he's caused every day.
If you don't get that, you're every bit as dumb as you portray yourself to be.
pansycar 3 years ago
Oh the irony.
We're not talking about "forgetting" by the way...
I think you're just trying way to hard to say that he's a bad guy.
Did I agree with anyone? No.
I said that Stacy Moskowitz's mother forgave him, and she did.
To say that he doesn't seem to "care" is pretty ignorant and ignoring the truth, no one knows if he truly is sorry but himself, but he seems to be proving that he cares a bit.
Try a BIT harder next time, "gramps"
shitdood 3 years ago
I think people are missing the point here. It's not about God, It's not about the Devil, It's not about Jesus and it's not about religion. Berkowitz is doing his best to focus on something more positive than something 'less than positive'. All this religious opinions debatable politics are pointless. Simple question, would you rather have someone wanting to murder or violate you or have someone respect your existing humanity?
LiquidViberStyle 3 years ago
Praise God!
Evangelander 3 years ago
IDC what he did in the past! He is such a GODLY man now, no one is perfect, we all should just forgive and forget, I FORGAVE HIM!!! =)
Reggae192837465 3 years ago
you dunno what he did?..he shot and killed 6 people and wounded 7 others with a .44 handgun in New York city in the late 70's..he's the son of sam..he terrorized a city of over 3 million people.
XxDEFTONESxX 3 years ago
lmao deftone. Sorry to say buddy but why should 3 million + people be scared of one man? People today should learn to stop fearing 1 individual and rise up together and help out each other to have a better community, to make the world a better place. And that presupposes that if everyone focused on doing positive activities then the world might actually be a peaceful place to live in. Most serial killers I don't forgive because they haven't shown a genuine communication in remorse and change.
LiquidViberStyle 3 years ago
"IDC what he did in the past! He is such a GODLY man now, no one is perfect, we all should just forgive and forget, I FORGAVE HIM!!! =)"
Well, goodie for you! You don't care.
The families of the victims do.
And we'll all sleep better tonight knowing that *you've* forgiven him.
You're an embarrassment to the faith you so poorly espouse.
pansycar 3 years ago
You don't really look into things before saying stuff do you?
Stacy Moskowitz's mother said she forgave him.
And he donates a lot of money to the family's of the victims.
Maybe not all of them have forgiven him but he's definitely showing that he cares, and is extremely sorry.
shitdood 3 years ago
well, at the end of your life you will know for certain if it is real or not.
of course, if you are right and God can't forgive anybody, you have won nothing.
but, if you are wrong, and God can forgive sins, and you didn't believe Him, then you are eternally damned.
So, what is the smart choice to make??????
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
the smart choice is to be the lost sheep they talk about in the bible. better to be pitied by lunatics then accepted and be responsible for condemning others to hell. better to be loved by the lunatics than unaccepted and murdered or condemned for beliefs that differ from their own. i'm just an innocent bystander in your holy wars. and if i'm wrong..i'll just say i'm sorry and be in heaven w/ you either way. :D
pablodepacas 3 years ago
with all due respect, your theory has a major hole in it: you can't ask for forgiveness once you are dead. the decision to ask Christ for forgiveness is only available for the living.
I have found the principle of Pascal's Wager to be helpful in thinking about such things.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Pascal was obviously an atheist. His wager is merely an attempt to not be accused of being a heretic and murdered by the church. Hell, back in the 1600's i would've done the same thing. Better to say you believe and nothing happen, than say you don't believe and be put to death.
pablodepacas 3 years ago
ya ya, i know i'm a heretic and i know how 500 years ago you would've chopped off my head. thank god you guys don't do that anymore publicly. now you have people like david berkowitz do it privately. i don't want anything to do with a club a loves to hurt people. hell / christianity is all about death, pain and suffering. and will be for a long time.
pablodepacas 3 years ago
"Christianity is about death, pain and suffering"? i'm afraid you are confused about what Christianity really is. It is about forgiveness, eternal life and a complete lack of suffering.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
You know more about hell than you do heaven.
pablodepacas 3 years ago
funny
Stolichnaya9 3 years ago
Too bad he couldn't find Christ before he decided to go blow holes through the innocent in New York city. I wonder how the victim's family members would feel to see this murderer revelling in his new found Christianity, at peace with himself yet the absence of their loved ones and the pain in their hearts can't simply be dissolved by waving a bible in front of THEIR faces.
LoolaLyla 3 years ago
Despicable character. If its not a dog that is talking to him , its 1st century superstitions and sky gods. It's just that this particular delusion is acceptable (even if its violence is masked in 'love'), too bad for his victims and the families that can never forgive him that he has a bunch of self serving fanatics who give him a new delusion to make this garbage feel powerful again instead of the inconsequential ugly little man he was back in '77 and is now. Who made this should be ashamed.
concurrentcoder 3 years ago
old things are passed away all things have become new
8thinpigs 3 years ago
Not everyone w/the pre-disposition acts on it. Typically, abuse, trauma, identity confusion, etc. can push someone over the edge. Then again, BTK and Dahmer had fairly normal childhoods so who knows!??! There's a HUGE difference in a serial murderer like DB and the rest of society. There's no comparison. DB's entire existence is based on lies, manipulation, and inflicting his own misery on others. Don't be fooled - he would kill you in a heartbeat if he could get away w/it.
jksonny 3 years ago
I'm not a psychologist but I definitely believe that a psychopath/sociopath is born with a certain pre-disposition toward violence and harmful/dangerous behavior. My "hope" is that society recognizes these liars/manipulators for what they are and does what is necessary to protect the rest of us. Berkowitz is a born liar and I firmly believe this is all an act. The same goes for Tex Watson and 99% of all the other jailhouse converts.
jksonny 3 years ago
So a person born with a pre-disposition towards violence and dangerous behavior should just be disgraced his entire life? There's no hope for him and he should just be looked down upon by society? Out of all due respect,sounds like bigotry to me. For the record, we're all born liars,b/c we're all born sinners. You, like me and everyone else, has lied before. Have you stolen anything,looked with lust,coveted,hated someone? Sure you've done some of those things.You break one of God's laws,(cont.)
Parkerjones1 3 years ago
When he was killing, he sent letters to neighbors/cops/press filled with violence, threats, taunts, satanic cults, etc. He was manipulating the situation; out-smarting police, terrifying an entire city, etc. The attention made him feel clever/important. Now, he's doing the same thing but his letters and actions are about God and religion. It brings him attention and makes him feel smart by manipulating people. It's the same thing but with a different means of manipulation.
jksonny 3 years ago
Thank you for your comments, but you are missing my point.
All of the things you say about DB as Son of Sam are true. He was a horrible, wicked, murderous, killing machine involved in the occult. True.
But what I am saying is DB has been a new person since 1987, when he committed his life to Christ. All of your references are PRIOR to 1987.
The evidence according to everyone who has spent time with/meet him is that he is VERY different---for 21 years. Your theory ignores this evidence
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
I respect your opinion b/c you obviously believe what you are saying. You are as convinced your view is correct as I am that mine is correct. Luckily, DB is locked away so people can judge for themselves w/out him running loose.
jksonny 3 years ago
Thank u for your comments.
I am the first to admit that SOS killings were horrible. DB was a very disturbed man. He doesn't deserve to ever be set free. Oddly, DB does not feel he even deserves to be alive based on his crimes. But NY doesn't have the death penalty.
The central message of our doc is one of hope, that anyone can find forgiveness for anything through Christ.
Of course there are still consequences to sin after forgiveness. DB will be in prison all his life b/c his crimes.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Inertia Films -- So many people are missing the point because they are not taking into consideration the supernatural elements involved here. DB is a changed man because of Jesus Christ. He did those horrific crimes because he was influenced by Satan. If people would take this very important spiritual factor into consideration, they would not be so quick to dismiss the change that has so obviously taken place in his life.
Born2bRedeemed 2 years ago
What I'm saying is that DB is a psychopath and a psychopath does not experience these emotions. And you're not a psychopath one day but not the next. He will always be psychotic. He's doing what these people do; they fool people. And look at the attention he's getting - that's what he wants. Remember how he smiled after his arrest? Same thing here. This makes him feel like he's important. He's just repeating the same pattern over and over again.
jksonny 3 years ago
A psychopath - which is what David is - is, by definition, not capable of remorse/regret unless it's for themselves. Who told you the Evans letters are fake? DB? They are genuine. Also, in televised interviews, DB claimed that a cult committed the murders and he was not responsible for all of them. He made up the 'Demon Sam' motive, then admitted it was a lie. And he is lying now. Lying is his pattern. He is manipulating you and laughing about it later. And why not? He has nothing but time.
jksonny 3 years ago
You still didn't answer my question: how do you know that DB is not capable of regret? How? I give you first hand accounts of his new life in Christ.
In fact, I have produced an entire documentary with interviews, names, dates, testimonies, police witnesses from men that hated him - yet believe him now, and over 350hours of research backing up my claims. That is evidence! What you have is your opinion. DB was a deeply disturbed man that has led a changed life since 1987 when he met Christ.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
And for the record, DB describes in detail his "relationship" w/ Gary Evans in his prison journal book. So, one is left to believe either:
1. those who found these so-called letters (kites) of a man who went on kill (5) more people then killed himself, or
2. a man (DB) who has been a model inmate for 21 years. I have personally talked to prison guards who have every reason to hate DBs guts yet say...the man is changed, he is different. Prior to 1987 DB was a liar, con-man...but not since.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Again, he's not capable of feeling regret or sorrow unless it's for himself. He's a psychopath and nothing - not God, not therapy, not meds - can change that. As for parole, DB had no life whatsoever on the outside. He was miserable in society so he might as well stay where he is. He's conning you. Read his letters to fellow serial killer Gary Evans. Also, maybe you can ask DB why, after his conversion, he continued to change his version of the murders (why he did it, did he act alone, etc.).
jksonny 3 years ago
So, my question is: how do you know that DB is not capable of regret? or sorrow? What first hand evidence would you bring forth? have you visited him in prison. I have. I have talked with him dozens of times, and exchanged 100+ letters.
With all due respect, i think i am more qualified to speak to his ability to express regret.
DB hasn't changed his version of the murders. NYPD just never released a lot of info that DB gave.
the gary evans thing is a lie made to discredit DB.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
So what you're saying is that if you're born a psychopath,nothing can help you and you're doomed to be heartless for the rest of your life. Sounds like a great message of hope. If what you're saying is true, does hope even exist?
Parkerjones1 3 years ago
This is ridiculous. Berkowitz is a psychopath and this is just another con. He is a pathological liar and manipulator. These people believe him b/c they want to believe; which makes them perfect pawns for DB. Read some of the letters he's written (especially to fellow prisoners) since his "conversion" and it's obvious he's just as twisted as he used to be.
jksonny 3 years ago
Ridiculous? His pattern since 1987 is nothing but sorrow and regret over his crimes.
I personally have over 100 letters from David. His prison journals have been published. I have that as well. More regret.
He wrote to then NY Gov. Pataki asking to not be given parole--not that he can get parole. He has written to all the families of his victims expressing sorrow.
I have visited him in prison & he is a model prisoner according to guards. DB is a changed man by the grace of God.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
the chicken or the egg, someone had to invent the chicken so that it could make eggs. or invent the egg so that there can be a chickens. you have the right to your belief but you better be right
malchipops 3 years ago
i usually dont inflict my religious beliefs on others but im gonna have to say SpraynardKruger00 is the man haha
aurnabsurvive 3 years ago
So, did you notice that spraynard asked me if i was running out of things to say, and then didn't respond to my questions? He won't tell me what is: science, truth, right, wrong, etc. He obviously is avoiding the questions because there are no good answers.
Further, he accuses me of "preaching" by "preaching" so-called science to me. He tells me I am "wrong" and gives me no basis for what is "right". And did you notice he never tells me what "science" is? He only distracts w/ profanity?
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
I completely agree with you. Most atheists on here can't intelligently defend their position, which is why they often come on here cussing and name calling. If there is no God, and we'll all be forgotten after death anyway, then why do they even care whether or not we believe?
jtlbb2 3 years ago
Thanks for the message.
Yeah, my favorite response from atheists (and those that do not believe in moral absolutes) is when they say there are is no "right" and "wrong"...and then tell me my beliefs are "wrong." Makes no sense whatsoever.
Or, when I ask where they get their sense of right and wrong, they say everyone decides what is right/wrong for themselves.....and then they tell me i'm wrong. And, i get a lot of how I have no intelligence or reasoning. funny, if it weren't so sad.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Also the same can be said about epilepsy and sxkitzophenia which appear on MRI scans as damage to certain parts of the brain.Again though many xhristians still will not believe that its not demon possesion even though the proof is in the MRI test results.Dont get me wrong science is far from perfect and many blunders have benn made in the name of science.Evolution being 1 of them.I just cant see a reptile morphing into a bird.lol
ranchai100 3 years ago
Do you believe in earthquakes, the wind, hurricanes, tornados, sunshine, oxygen, or thunder?
Have you ever seen your heart, or liver, or kidney? Maybe a doctor has, but you yourself.
How about obedience, or anger, or jealousy, or devotion, or any emotion? Do you believe these things exist?
You don't see any of these things. You see the effects of these things, but not the actual things. Yet you have FAITH that they exist without actually seeing them in person.
So, what is truth?
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Read a science textbook, that'll explain all the things you just said. I'm not a scientologist or any of that bullshit, but seriously man, everything goes back to science. Once again, until Jesus or god or w/e is physically standing in front of me talking and moving, it's all a bunch of crap. You need to get some friends and stop reading the bible all day.
SpraynardKruger00 3 years ago
My point is you have never seen any of those things, and yet, you believe in them all. You have faith that they are real.
So you do believe in LOTS of things you have never seen, and yet you criticize me for doing the same. That's a contradiction.
All goes back to science? I could easily use your same logic: were you there at the beginning of time? Did you see evolution start? Where did the particles for the so- called "Big Bang" come from?
If Im wrong, where do u get your right?
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
God isn't making earthquakes start, he's not making the wind, he's not making the sun shine, he's not starting hurricanes or thunder, and he sure as hell is providing us with oxygen, all of those come about from scientific process'. You've been brainwashed by the catholic church. When you're dead, that's it. You rot in the ground. End of story.
SpraynardKruger00 3 years ago
I've never been Catholic. Never ever. Perhaps you have a misunderstanding of what Christianity is. Catholicism is not Christianity.
You talk about the scientific process. So what is "science"?
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
What the fuck do you mean, what is science?? It's involved in everything that's happening around you, and at least their's proof for it, and lot's of proof at that. Now as far as proof that their's a god, there isn't much. Your replies are becoming filled with a lot less of that preaching bullshit, are you running out of things to say to me??
SpraynardKruger00 3 years ago
I am asking you what the definition of "science" is? It is "involved in everything around you" but what is it exactly?
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
At this point i'm just trying to get you to answer any question that I ask. You don't seem to want to answer:
1. Where do you get your sense of "right" & "wrong"?
2. What is Truth.
3. What is science?
4. Do you believe in anything you can't see? 5. Do you have any evidence that there is no God?
6. Do you believe Catholicism is Christianity?
So you don't want to answer any of the really important questions in life. Questions that determine one's soul's eternity.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Sorry, I couldn't answer you, while you were sitting around praying and preaching, I was out having a life. You're trying to be all deep and mysterious by asking me these retarded fuckin questions. Everything you know, you learned by reading books and other useless crap, but you've never sat and talked with god face to face. Other than what you've read in books, what's your evidence showing that there is a god? You sound much crazier than I do, sorry to tell you.
SpraynardKruger00 3 years ago
It is sad that you don't have any answers to life's most important questions. You can't tell me what you base truth or right or wrong on.
Well, your view is called relativism. It means each person decides for himself what is right/wrong. Therefore you can't say that I am "Wrong" because you can't me what "wrong" is. You have your opinions based on you and nothing else.
Creation screams there is a God!! Springtime. Sunrise. Newborn baby. An apple. Planets in orbit. Ocean's tides.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Ok jesus freak, settle down now. I'm not wrong in anything I've said, you show me a picture of you and god and I'll believe you, until then shut up and get back in your padded room you psycho. Go out and get a job, you have way too much time on your hands to think about all this stupid nonsense that you're talking about. God isn't real, get over it.
SpraynardKruger00 3 years ago
You can't logically tell me I'm "wrong" (or nuts or psycho) because you have nothing on which to base "right" & "wrong".
So stop telling people they are "wrong" about anything b/c "everyone is right about everything."
As an atheist that is your worldview, that nothing has meaning--so why not murder, rape, steal? If you say b/c of the "law" then might makes "right." And that is Nazi Germany, Stalin's Russia, Pol Pot's Cambodia.
Your worldview is shifting sand with no meaning.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Hahahahaha, my worldview is shifting sand with no meaning, hahahahaha, I'm totally writing that down as one of the lamest things I've ever heard. Have fun there psychopath, jesus freak!! You're dead wrong, I'm right, you just cant admit it. Sucks to be you hahahahah!
SpraynardKruger00 3 years ago
the chicken or the egg someone had to invent the chicken for there to be a egg or an egg for there to be a chicken. you have the right to your belief but you better be right
malchipops 3 years ago
Why are you so angry?
Ah, no one ever seen God? ...but you're wrong. Jesus is God and walked the earth for 33 years. We was seen by thousands of people. In fact, 300 people saw him after his resurrection!!! This amazing fact is even reported by non-Christian sources. That's evidence. His miracles reported by secular sources. Evidence. Dead Sea Scrolls. Evidence! A changed peaceful life like Berkowitz. Evidence!
So, you still haven't told me where you get your sense of "right" & "wrong"?
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Yea great. He found god. Woo Hoo! Hey, remember when he killed all those people back in the 70's?? Yeaa, god doesn't forgive and forget shit like that. I love how people justify the fucked up things they do by saying "god has forgiven me", how the fuck would you know if he has? As far as I'm concerned this guy has a one way ticket straight to hell, no matter how much "faith" he might have.
SpraynardKruger00 3 years ago
So how do know God hasn't forgiven him? I think Christians would say we know God has forgiven us because His word says He will. Of course, along with that belief is the belief that God's word is infallable.
So what evidence do you point to say that you know Berkowitz is not forgiven?
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
What evidence to you point to even say that there is a god?? Just because you think you can communicate with god doesn't mean you actually are...it might just mean you're fuckin nuts.
SpraynardKruger00 3 years ago
You just called me "nuts" in profanic terms, and earlier said said that Berkowitz "has a one way ticket to hell."
Ah, so you believe in hell. Hell is a place for people that do "wrong" things. Because there is a "wrong" there must, by pure logic, also be a "right." That "right" is God.
Evidence that there is a God screams out in abundant every minute. If there were no God then there would be no right & wrong. If you say I am wrong/nuts then there must be a moral law giver--God.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Yea no, you're fuckin nuts man...
SpraynardKruger00 3 years ago
I was hoping you might participate in a discussion of right & wrong, not profanic name calling.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Nah man, you're crazy. I don't like talking to Jesus Freaks.
SpraynardKruger00 3 years ago
Please understand that I see that once you are pressed for an answer to why you believe there is no God, you have no answer except personal, profanic verbal attacks.
I gave you evidence for a God. In fact your further insults strengthen my point even further. However,you gave me no evidence that there isn't a God.
The unescapeable truth is: if you say there is no God then you have become your own "God", and thus self destructed your own arguement.
InertiaFilms 3 years ago
Awesome!
geckoexpress 4 years ago
thanks so much.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
I just want to thank you for putting together and posting this amazing story. I am deeply moved. I think we all need to be reminded that God's power and grace are truly beyond what we could ask or think. The testimony of David Berkowitz puts me in mind of the miraculous conversion of the demoniac in Mark chapter 5. How glorious. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ. And I know I need God's forgiveness just as much as David did. The heart is wicked, but God's love is even greater than our sin.
pnutbutrncrackers 4 years ago
Thanks for posting this story on David Berkowitz. I'm glad he found the Lord. Could you tell me if A&E's "Biography" had ever done his story? If so, could you post that one, as well?
grneyes7 4 years ago
The 1998 A&E "Biography" program only talks about the "Son of Sam" killings/case/chaos. It doesn't deal with David's conversion to Christianity. It's only all the bad stuff.
We produced this "Forgiven for Life" story which gives hope to us all.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
Thank you. It's too bad if "Biography" doesn't even mention David's conversion to Christianity. My thought was that since "Biography" is very familiar to many people, it might be a MORE powerful testimony to the healing power of Jesus Christ if ALL the dark, depressing, and evil stuff is exposed first, and then the bright transformation by the Lord in David is shown in STARK contrast. I can understand not wanting to dwell on the dark and evil stuff, though.
grneyes7 4 years ago
I'm not impressed with David's testimony as I am in the fact that all of the justified anger, punishment and hatred his victims families feel, was actually poured out on God's own son.
Johnkim510 4 years ago
Yes, i am not impressed with David but with the Savior behind the forgiveness of David's awful sins.
As David himself says, "It's not my testimony, but His (Christ's) testimony of what He's done in my life."
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
To Pailung, I am a Christian. I wasn't one until I was 23. It takes one to know one. Whether you want to believe it or not, this man has been forgiven, and I can see it. I was once quite a hellraiser, and now I am a heavenraiser because of Jesus.
570748 4 years ago
Yes, understanding the forgiveness that only Christ offers truly is setting the captives (to sin) free. I too have been set free from the bondage of sin because of Christ's atoning sacrafice.
If one hasn't experienced this freedom, it will never make complete sense. My hope is that as many as possible experience this freedom in Christ. That's why we made this documentary.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
what a bunch of HORSE SHIT!! This show is more mentally ill than Berkowitz himself. LOL oh how has he got all you pinheads fooled. There is no remorse in him,for the lives he ended,there is no other accountablility other than David HIMSELF. He was and still IS in control of everything he has done. no demons, no satan, the only demon is that which is HIM and Him alone. If he was trule remorseful he would have ended his life or allowed the state to do so. i think NY would have made an exception.
PaiLung 4 years ago
You say he is not remorseful. What do you base your opinion on? What evidence can you share?
Are you advocating NY violating state law to kill him when the death penalty is not legal in NY?
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
I think NY would have made an exception in his case, despite the bleeding hearts and religious pundents that tend to side with the rights of serial killers rather than the families of the victims, or the victims themselves, who speaks for them? oh and i base my opinion on the lives he ended brutally in 1977. oh did we forget about that?
oh yeah it was satan that did it, no accountability other than suseptability to tha debbil,LOL!!! Giime a break and wake up.
PaiLung 4 years ago
So, you are advocating NY 'case by case' adminstration of the law. Not very practical.
"There is no remorse in him..." Again i ask you ask you based on what???
I have known David for over eight years and he is full of remorse. He has been saying he is sorry for 21 years.
And David is pro death penalty (DP). If NY had a DP he is willing to pay with his life. David has written each of the victim's families expressing his sorrow.
& life in prison is hardly "no accountability."
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
you know i am not buying it for one second. so you know him eh? wow im impressed. ill bet your charity and forgiveness has earned you a spot in heaven,right there next to dahmer and bundy and lucas and toole and all the rest who found jeeeeezusss,before the end. christ is surrounded by such worthy souls. Berkowitz may have you and all the other obsessed jesus freaks fooled,but those of us who exist in reality, know better. it's all propaganda and fame and a dog and pony show.
PaiLung 4 years ago
as for my being "worthy"-- you are exactly right. According to scripture "There is not one righteous. No not one. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
That includes everyone: me, you, berkowitz and everyone in between.
So, may i ask: what do you believe happens to you when you die, as we all will one day?
and further, where do you determine what is "right" & "wrong"?
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
sure you can ask, and my response is "its none of your business,my spiritual life is PRIVATE and for me and me alone, not to be broadcast or worn on my sleeve". as to what i determine what is right and wrong? the issue is too complex for youtube,and will not enable the discussion to go further than it has already. I still stand by what i said earlier. "im not buying it for one second"
PaiLung 4 years ago
thank you for your comments.
right and wrong complex?
the real issue is, what if your "spiritual life" is not really "private" at all. What if it is public before a holy God? what if there is a God that holds you/us accountable for sin. what if He demands payment for sin ?
are you familar with Pascal's Wager?
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
WOW! What a wonderful witnessing piece! Very encouraging. God is SO GOOD! :) I'm an editor and I respect your use of the medium to glorify Jesus. God Bless! By the way, I respect your steadfast and respectful replies to any and all guests.
trikskee 4 years ago
My question is this: WHY HASN'T DAVID EXPOSED THOSE WHO HELPED HIM MURDER THESE SOULS??
The evil souls in the Process Church (Satanic) are also responsible for murders & others Satanic evils. He knows who they are.
The reason he plead guilty was so that no trial would be held. The 'lone nut' theory got much play in the press & by Satanists who run the government.
apostledbm 4 years ago
David did report/expose those involved in the SOS killings in 1976. All of the people involved in those murders are now dead, with the except of one woman. In large part the NYPD chose to not pursue them to quiet the hysteria surrounding the case. So, the NYPD got their man--the Son of Sam--so to speak.
That's the short version.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
Where did you get this information? I read the book on this large case: THE ULTIMATE EVIL by Maury Terry. Because of this book, Queens District Attorney John J. Santucci reopened the case!
As I said, David plead guilty to keep the names out of the records. Nowhere in the book did I read any names disclosed by David.
apostledbm 4 years ago
i know that maury terry is no longer on speaking terms with david b. david and i have spoken about his relationship with mr terry on a few occasions. i prefer to leave it all that.
as for my information, i got it from david himself, bob alexander--a prison guard at attica, someone whom i can't mention by name at the NYPD, and a former NJ police officer.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
The names of the others involved are not very hard to come by with a little research. i know a few of them myself and i'm no detective.
what has been the result of the reopened case?
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
Listening to more of David's testimony, I am more sure of what I said below. David did not get saved until 10 years after being incarcerated. He certainly did not give up his cult co-murderers when he was arrested, for he was the fall-guy, the patsy. According to THE ULTIMATE EVIL book by Maury Terry, he still has not named names.
Your understanding of this case, InertiaFilms, is incorrect, as far as I can see & research.
apostledbm 4 years ago
If I have to choose between a repentent, born-again believer in Christ, and a non-believer selling a book---i'll take the repentent believer.
Further, I have primary sources other than Berkowitz---that worked on the SOS case in NYC--that hated Berkowitz at the time---that corroberate his telling of the events.
Further, I have primary, first hand reports of Mr Terry's conduct during the writing of his book. That's all I have to say on the matter.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
Thank you for your candid response. I have not met or conversed with David, so I only have the information shared. I have your testimony now.
Getting saved is one thing - 'reproving the unfruitful works of darkness' by name - naming the souls responsible individually is another thing and requires more 'digging' & prayer & courage from what I have seen in my ministry to very evil souls.
God bless your work & ministry of love.
apostledbm 4 years ago
Too late to change David I'm afraid, he is a strange bloke no doubt... wow the girl talking about satan's hand and God's is a joke!! She must be taking the mick surely?? I wonder what the victim's families would think of this garbage?
sligo74 4 years ago
American Christianity, what a load of bollix! Berkowitz murdering wanker. Bush was told by God to invade Iraq!! Think of the families he ruined, he should have been remved from the planet. Sick of this Christianity excuse for murderers and Im an Irish Catholic! We had 30 years of war on this island due to religion. As Marx said "religion is the opium of the masses". Very true. I presume this video is a pisstake anyway
sligo74 4 years ago
Sounds like perhaps you have confused "Christianity" with "religion." They are exactly opposite. Even Jesus rebuked the "religious" pharises. Christianity is God reaching man; religion is man attempting to reach god.
Your rejection of Christ and yet defense of Karl Marx is, uh, interesting.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
Hello,something is for sure,he cannot cheat on GOD and his son JESUS,if he really found GOD and JESUS in his heart,good for him,he leave behind a lot of tragedies for a lot of people,inocent people.
I am from Southamerica and time ago a read about him and everything that he did,so i hope he is under GOD'mercy.
Sorry for my english.
angeles37 4 years ago
I guess when David passes over he will find out how good his faith was.
bigbill1991 4 years ago
Yes, we will all find out one day what eternity is all about.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
Agreed but i did like the 1999 movie Summer Of Sam more for the time (1977) than the violence.
bigbill1991 4 years ago
Christ served the sentence for your sins. He paid the penalty. you are a prisoner in a cell, bound by your sin. The warden comes to you and hands you a pardon for your sins, signed by Jesus Christ, declaring that you are now free from the penalty of your sin, and can go free. But you get stubborn and say, I'd rather keep my sins. I like me the way I am. So you insist on staying in your sin. You have refused to accept the pardon.
waldenehn 4 years ago
Yes, I agree. I think this is the state of all mankind, enslaved to sin. "There is none that is righteousness, no not one. All that sinned and fall short of the glory of God," according to Romans 3.
But my quesiton is: if Christ truly died for everyone's sins, then why do people still go to hell; because unbelief (refusing to accept the pardon) is a sin?
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
I've enjoyed this discussion, but my ideas are rather elaborate and discussing them within YouTube's word limit is quite troublesome. I don't think I can do them justice here so I'll bow out now. It's been interesting.
AZNAtheist 4 years ago
I appreciate your time in discussing these "weighty" matters. I have enjoyed it the last few days.
I also wish the best in your life for both you and your family. Take care & thanks again.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
It is God Himself Who defines Right and Wrong, and we can never get away from the reward of doing right or the punishment for doing wrong. But Jesus offers forgiveness and new life for those who turn away from Wrong and follow Him. Jesus paid the price for David's sins, and gave him newness of life. He paid the price for your sin, and you sit there and argue about it. Isn't Heaven better than Hell?Why do you get mad when a man is delivered from Hell to Heaven?
waldenehn 4 years ago
Thanks for your comments and defense of the Faith. I appreciate that. I do have one clarification question though based on your response.
If Christ paid the price for everyone in the world's sins, why do people go to hell?
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
According to Christianity, because some don't accept his payment.
AZNAtheist 4 years ago
I truly cannot understand how the forgiveness of this heinous murderer is something to be admired. In the warped ideas of Christian morality, there is apparently no wrong or right, no good or bad. Only belief and disbelief.
AZNAtheist 4 years ago
No "wrong or right, no good or bad" in Christian morality? I must say I've never heard that belief about Christians before.
But, with a name that implies no belief in God (atheist), and a belief that Berkowitz's acts were "heinous", may I ask where you get your sense of wrong & right, good & bad?
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
You may. I believe that an action's morality is based upon how much happiness or suffering it causes to a sentient being.
AZNAtheist 4 years ago
So what if the action causes one person to be happy, and concomitantly another person experiences anger, pain and sadness (like adultery, or pedophilia, or stealing? Then who is right & wrong ?
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
If it causes suffering, then it is wrong. Gaining happiness is moral only if it doesn't cause anyone else excessive suffering.
My morality is based upon the rights and dignity of sentient beings. Their right to live, enjoy their lives, and to not endure needless pain.
Let me turn the question on you. Why do you allow God (or more precisely, the religion claiming to represent God) to determine what's right and wrong?
AZNAtheist 4 years ago
Right & wrong was determined long before I was born. I willing submit to Christ and God's revealed Word, the Bible. I believe in moral absolutes as determined by God and His Word.
Otherwise, everyone determines for themselves what is "right" & "wrong" which results in chaos, anarchy and confusion? Then there is no standard, no morals and everthing is permissable.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
Right and wrong need not be set in stone by a transcendent authority to avoid moral chaos. I've given you a standard that is perfectly functional without a god. It was not set down by a god but neither does it allow anyone to do as they please. It is based upon patterns and interactions that are common to all human experience. Certain behaviors are good for society and some are not.
AZNAtheist 4 years ago
Your morality model is not clear or functional. How much happiness or suffering an action causes cannot seriously be the basis of good and evil.
By that definition breaking up with a girlfriend is evil, getting a flu shot is evil (it causes suffering).
And, concerning morality, who determines what "rights" and "dignity" are? Your morality model is unworkable. It doesn't allow for moral absolutes. Everyone is free to do whatever they want. Chaos.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
You misunderstand. I was very careful to use words like "needless" and "excessive" to qualify suffering.
"who determines..."
Not who, but what. As I said before, patterns common to all human experience. "Right" depends on the welfare of the human being and human society which, I repeat, does NOT allow anyone to do what they want.
I do not see how a god would solve any of these problems. If God exists, then who decides that we should do has he says? God? Sounds circular.
AZNAtheist 4 years ago
Thanks for the response.
This needless pain & suffering morality is only your definition. (Another atheist who wrote me had no problem with Hitler, Stalin, Hussein). Your reasoning has no lowest common denominator. Who/what/common pattern doesn't matter. Some "patterns common" today were not common 50, 150, 500 years ago.
My worldview has a Lawgiver, a Judge, a setter of morality that is consistent for all people, all places & all times.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
Humans living together in tribes, cooperating to get resources and protect one another, is the basic pattern that has existed through all human history. Good is what's beneficial for welfare of the tribe and the people in it. This gives us the Golden Rule and common rules against murder, rape, theft, torture, etc.
AZNAtheist 4 years ago
The basic pattern of human history is the exact opposite of "cooperating" & protecting one another. Those that seem to cooperate do so as enlightened self interest.
Again, your model doesn't hold up. Nazi Germany protected the "welfare of the tribe & the people in it." They protected other Germans, and killed six million Jews along the way. Unless a moral absolute is held up (thou shall not murder), the result is mayhem, murder & lawlessness.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
Self interest is an important factor as it ensures the well-being of the individual. But true empathy and altruism are real and were necessary for the well-being of our primitve ancestors. Otherwise, we wouldn't be here today. Enlightened self-interest is a counterintuitive, complex, and new idea that our ancestors couldn't have. Instinctive empathy is the best explanation.
AZNAtheist 4 years ago
Your example is invalid for several reasons. I define "tribe" as individuals interacting, not a nationality. The Nazis can't randomly pick who's in and out. Also, the Jews were not a real threat.
AZNAtheist 4 years ago
Tribe; but a nationality is made up of individuals.
Of course the Nazis decided who was "in" & "out." They lined up Jews and other groups, included Christians, and said you're out---kill them. Others they spared (in) for the work camps/gulags. The Nazis even tried to genetically rig individuals for a master race.
InertiaFilms 4 years ago
"Needless" pain is quite easy to define. Just ask "Can we get similar benefit through less suffering?" and "Is the benefit worth the pain?" Minimizing pain is key.
Having a "common denominator" of morality is, in fact, a weakness. It trivializes the needs of individuals in favor of rigid dogma. Morals need to be flexible enough to help those with unique needs.
AZNAtheist 4 years ago
Where did you get this definition of "needless pain"? And what is truly suffering? And benefit?
And who/what says if the benefit is worth the pain? And what is pain? Physical pain? Emotional pain? What if the "pain" is imagined but not real?
InertiaFilms 4 years ago