Allen is most impressive... it takes courage to expose your body as much and sing... I wonder though if it was really necessary to put him in this "costume"...
We all know we like to watch this because sexy Thomas Allen looks great nearly naked except for that loin cloth! He has an amazing body! And singing voice too of course!
Anyone who says this isn't what Monteverdi would have wanted is crazy. If Monteverdi had these instruments in his time I'm sure he would have used them.
Another thought about the Salzburg "Ulisse" -- I have the CD, which was recorded on a different night from the video, and musically, the CD is even better-- mostly because of Ann Murray as Minerva, who was ill on the night the vid was made. She kicked serious Baroque butt. ;) So if you love this, try to hear the CD, because Murray just puts it all on another level.
this was the only monteverdi opera i ever saw, and its like 6 hours long so i was not interested in repeating the monteverdi experience LOL. i did love the music, its beautiful and sweet and great to listen to in spurts, its just not my cup of tea to sit for that long, it was pretty gruelling. it was a great performance however and i liked much of it. but im more of a romantic opera person LOL!
THANK YOU FOR UPLOADING THIS. Why this wonder is not reissued on DVD viewable in Europe I simply cannot understand. Henze's orchestration no doubt irritates purists. I find it a perfectly valid and fascinating exercise. Great music which can coexist side by side with a more rigorous historically informed approach. There is as much truth in this musical re-creation of Monteverdi's masterpiece as in Christie's take on it.
@petitvaurien I'd like to see a DVD re-issue too. I've got a good quality tape, but a DVD would be great, because I have a very soft spot for this performance. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the DVD. Approaches to music can change so much that perhaps in a few years someone will "discover" modern adaptations of early music and decide they're ear-opening, insightful etc ;-)))
THANK YOU FOR UPLOADING THIS. Why this wonder is not reissued on DVD viewable in Europe I simply cannot understand. Henze's orchestration no doubt irritates purists. I find it a perfectly valid and fascinating exercise. Great music which can coexist side by side with a more rigorous historically informed approach. There is as much truth in this musical re-creation of Monteverdi's masterpiece as in Christie's take on it.
Powder her face has a great title but has any opera since 1950 been able to catch on.this one using old styles is kinda neat. Which operas have been done more than had a premier. Why this return to an out of date style there must be some compelling reason.Henze has big rep. Maybe there will be something new in other parts . Orchestration is neat .
@kyrpap1981 I like it too - maybe because it was my introduction to this opera. But then I heard/saw some 'lighter' performances and didn't really change my mind. I still am very fond of this one AND of perfomances done by, say, William Christie. Perhaps this is a measure of Monteverdi's artistry...
@interpreterr Can't say that I'm a fan of his tone quality, but that is some crazy breath control for a boy treble. Those are some ridiculously long melismas!
Thanks for this information! It looks like you're right - I've just checked the Salzburg Festival website and their archive page lists a different Amore for the 1987 performances.
I don't know about Keenlyside, but Hvorostovsky might be brave enough -:) There's a pop video on Youtube to he's recently done and which can be described as soft S&M porn. So you never know...-:)
I think the Human Frailty is supposed to be sung by either a mezzo or countertenor and the role of Ulisse by a tenor, so what Allen does here is pretty amazing.
It is rather interesting how the conception of aesthetics change - I keep staring at that loin cloth and see absolutely no point to it; somehow naked would be much more appropriate for the role and for what the director is trying to do here. Ah well, the English... :D
I think Human Frailty is naked enough here with the cloth. Imagine the reviews if it hadn't been put there - not much else would have been discussed, I suspect...:D
As for the voices - I don't know about Human Frailty, but isn't Ulisse one of those roles that can be sung both by tenors and baritones (if they can manage the tessitura)? Given the number of tenors in the cast anyway, I think the baritone is a good choice.
Well, I didn't have a choice - that was the only thumbnail available featuring Human Frailty... You're right, it's a good thumbnail. Judging from the comments, some have been enjoying repeated viewing -:)
I think there HAS been quite a bit of repeated viewing from several parties...currently 99 views on this vid to only 30ish views on the others on average? Seems quite the anomaly.
But then again, getting to see a renowned baritone in nothing but a loin cloth is something one doesn't see every day...not that's the point of watching this opera, of course ;-)
Has anyone yet mentioned that his singing is top-notch as always?
However, I'm not sure what would happen if this was staged now. As much as staging conventions have changed in the last two decades, I don't think many of today's established baritones would appear naked on stage. Relatively unknown singers and supers - sure. But singers such as Simon Keenlyside, Peter Mattei or Dmitri Hvorostovsky, who have the same status Allen had in the mid-80s?
(Come to think of it, I have never seen any of them in a loincloth.)
Well, I don't think the baritones you mentioned would have any problem with performing in a loincloth - I've seen videos with shirtless Keenlyside and Hvorostovsky and both looked fine (and comfortable-:), so who knows... Mattei I've seen only fully dressed, but even a fully dressed Mattei looks all right to me (I'd love to see him as Ulisse!)
Hvoro and Keenlyside do seem to have a tendency to take their shirts off, but that's still not the same thing as showing up in a loincloth, let alone naked. Today's barihunks are not as brave as Allen was ;)
@zimnaya I am sorry, that must be an Americanism, and a slightly rude one ;) -- but that is a garment that I have found there are a lot of different names for, even in English. It is what I think the British call a "vest."
@antmusique Those two are shy compared to Schrott and Gunn. Ah, the old days, when baritones didn't need to have standing chest-waxing appointments. :P
I went to see "Ulisse" in Cologne when I was 15 and a huge Thomas Hampson fan. I hereby openly admit that my main reason to travel to Cologne was that I knew from an article I'd get to see Thomas Hampson almost naked in the first scene. Must have been the same staging.
And now, where is that porn clip with Dimitri Hvorostovsky?? *gg*
As for the Dima clip, search for his name + "Toi et moi".
PS for the Harry Potter fen amongst us: I just searched it to make sure it showed up (it did) and saw that someone did a Lucius Malfoy fanvid using the song. I love the Internet.
I almost forgot to answer your question about the Cologne trip! Actually, I don't remember Hampson's figure at all. Which might not be the greatest compliment. ;-) I remember him talking about the production in an interview and he was like: "As soon as people will see me naked, they will go: 'Well... he does have a good voice". *ggg*
The Hvorostovsky clip does stimulate my sense for trash. However, from an erotic point of view, a glance by Thomas Allen can be sexier than this whole clip. ;-)
As for Thomas Hampson in Cologne - maybe you weren't really concentrating on his signing...:-). By the way, I think that comment he made about having to appear (nearly) naked is great.
Well, I'm afraid that today his begging would have been unsuccessful! Actually, there's a wonderful Ulisse DVD (under W. Christie) done a few years ago in which Human Frailty (countertenor in this case) is completely naked. But, unlike in that Salzburg production, the stage is very dark...-:)
True...how fortunate then for the countertenor that the staging was dark! I cannot imagine the reaction one would get if one was told that you had to sing stark naked on a very brightly lit stage. O_o
Actually that was indeed supposed to to be the case in the beginning...the only reason why Allen is able to wear the loin cloth is because he literally begged for something to wear in this scene!
I agree that this had to be 1985-- Allan Bergius, the treble singer who sang Amore, was on the last legs of his unchanged voice. I'm pretty sure that was the year of his stimmbruch, the voice change.
Thank you so much for posting this up! I've been trying to get a copy of my own for quite a long time but alas, the fact that it is no longer being manufactured by the DVD company makes it exceedingly pricey to purchase.
I'm still new to Baroque opera but as antmusique said, Thomas Allen is definitely an added bonus here.
I like Hans Werner Henze, but I'm not sure I like what he did with this. I don't get it.
My introduction to Monteverdi was Poppea, which I loved instantly. I was surprised I liked it so much, because I was fully expecting to be bored to death. I like Ulisse as well.
Anyway, thank you for posting this! I had never seen this production before, and the fact that it features Thomas Allen is definitely an added bonus.
Allen is most impressive... it takes courage to expose your body as much and sing... I wonder though if it was really necessary to put him in this "costume"...
TommyHaegin 8 months ago
@TommyHaegin Apparently the "costume" was a compromise - the director's first idea was to have no costume at all...
interpreterr 8 months ago
I just noticed that there are two "dislikes" up there. Probably one from Nikolaus Harnoncourt, and the other from Thomas Hampson. :P
drtmuir 8 months ago 2
@interpreterr
that would have been nice.
jfbecks17 5 months ago
@jfbecks17 ;-))))
interpreterr 5 months ago
has anyone seen this at the young Vic in london... brilliant
qwertyoop 11 months ago
We all know we like to watch this because sexy Thomas Allen looks great nearly naked except for that loin cloth! He has an amazing body! And singing voice too of course!
AmericanEvita 1 year ago
@AmericanEvita He's not a gym rat, but very nice. You used to get them that way back then in the old days. ;)
drtmuir 1 year ago
@drtmuir Research topic "The impact of nearly naked baritones on the reception of Monteverdi operas in the 20th century"...
interpreterr 1 year ago 2
And I still can't believe I let someone else get that one. ;)
I swear I once saw an article in a German journal that was "Die Rezeption der Rezeptionsgeschichte."
drtmuir 1 year ago
Anyone who says this isn't what Monteverdi would have wanted is crazy. If Monteverdi had these instruments in his time I'm sure he would have used them.
jfbecks17 1 year ago
Another thought about the Salzburg "Ulisse" -- I have the CD, which was recorded on a different night from the video, and musically, the CD is even better-- mostly because of Ann Murray as Minerva, who was ill on the night the vid was made. She kicked serious Baroque butt. ;) So if you love this, try to hear the CD, because Murray just puts it all on another level.
drtmuir 1 year ago
this was the only monteverdi opera i ever saw, and its like 6 hours long so i was not interested in repeating the monteverdi experience LOL. i did love the music, its beautiful and sweet and great to listen to in spurts, its just not my cup of tea to sit for that long, it was pretty gruelling. it was a great performance however and i liked much of it. but im more of a romantic opera person LOL!
bigus 1 year ago
@bigus Give Monteverdi a chance and who knows, maybe you will eventually become a Monteverdi opera person too! ;)
interpreterr 1 year ago
THANK YOU FOR UPLOADING THIS. Why this wonder is not reissued on DVD viewable in Europe I simply cannot understand. Henze's orchestration no doubt irritates purists. I find it a perfectly valid and fascinating exercise. Great music which can coexist side by side with a more rigorous historically informed approach. There is as much truth in this musical re-creation of Monteverdi's masterpiece as in Christie's take on it.
petitvaurien 1 year ago
@petitvaurien I'd like to see a DVD re-issue too. I've got a good quality tape, but a DVD would be great, because I have a very soft spot for this performance. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the DVD. Approaches to music can change so much that perhaps in a few years someone will "discover" modern adaptations of early music and decide they're ear-opening, insightful etc ;-)))
interpreterr 1 year ago
THANK YOU FOR UPLOADING THIS. Why this wonder is not reissued on DVD viewable in Europe I simply cannot understand. Henze's orchestration no doubt irritates purists. I find it a perfectly valid and fascinating exercise. Great music which can coexist side by side with a more rigorous historically informed approach. There is as much truth in this musical re-creation of Monteverdi's masterpiece as in Christie's take on it.
petitvaurien 1 year ago
Powder her face has a great title but has any opera since 1950 been able to catch on.this one using old styles is kinda neat. Which operas have been done more than had a premier. Why this return to an out of date style there must be some compelling reason.Henze has big rep. Maybe there will be something new in other parts . Orchestration is neat .
lovesGenet 1 year ago
Wow, Time = Death? But then, why white? Any self-respecting Death wears black and (TALKS LIKE THIS)
Sieglinde84 1 year ago
@kyrpap1981 I like it too - maybe because it was my introduction to this opera. But then I heard/saw some 'lighter' performances and didn't really change my mind. I still am very fond of this one AND of perfomances done by, say, William Christie. Perhaps this is a measure of Monteverdi's artistry...
interpreterr 1 year ago
2:48 Tom does a goat trill!!!
drtmuir 2 years ago
Geez, Tom, aren't you cold?
drtmuir 2 years ago 2
Perhaps the very thought of singing nearly naked on that stage released enough adrenaline to keep him warm...
interpreterr 2 years ago
Mmmmmmmmmmmm, nearly naked...
Snowss 2 years ago
But not quite....(alas?) :D
interpreterr 2 years ago
PS. I've also just read that Allan Bergius wernt on to become a cellist and conductor.
interpreterr 2 years ago
@interpreterr Can't say that I'm a fan of his tone quality, but that is some crazy breath control for a boy treble. Those are some ridiculously long melismas!
drtmuir 1 year ago
@drtmuir Speaking of breath control - Alle isn't bad in this department either, especially in the finale.
interpreterr 11 months ago
@interpreterr Yes, and you can *see* it very clearly in this clip. :P
drtmuir 11 months ago
Thanks for this information! It looks like you're right - I've just checked the Salzburg Festival website and their archive page lists a different Amore for the 1987 performances.
interpreterr 2 years ago
I don't know about Keenlyside, but Hvorostovsky might be brave enough -:) There's a pop video on Youtube to he's recently done and which can be described as soft S&M porn. So you never know...-:)
interpreterr 2 years ago
I think the Human Frailty is supposed to be sung by either a mezzo or countertenor and the role of Ulisse by a tenor, so what Allen does here is pretty amazing.
It is rather interesting how the conception of aesthetics change - I keep staring at that loin cloth and see absolutely no point to it; somehow naked would be much more appropriate for the role and for what the director is trying to do here. Ah well, the English... :D
a96agli 2 years ago
Why are you keep staring at that loin cloth? :D
I think Human Frailty is naked enough here with the cloth. Imagine the reviews if it hadn't been put there - not much else would have been discussed, I suspect...:D
As for the voices - I don't know about Human Frailty, but isn't Ulisse one of those roles that can be sung both by tenors and baritones (if they can manage the tessitura)? Given the number of tenors in the cast anyway, I think the baritone is a good choice.
interpreterr 2 years ago
interpreterr - I'm not surprised at the number of views this video is getting compared to your other Ulisse videos. You chose the right thumbnail ;)
antmusique 2 years ago
Well, I didn't have a choice - that was the only thumbnail available featuring Human Frailty... You're right, it's a good thumbnail. Judging from the comments, some have been enjoying repeated viewing -:)
interpreterr 2 years ago
Repeated viewing? I have no idea what you're referring to.
*shifty eyes*
antmusique 2 years ago
Oh, it's just a thought... -:)
interpreterr 2 years ago
*bursts into laughter at this observation*
I think there HAS been quite a bit of repeated viewing from several parties...currently 99 views on this vid to only 30ish views on the others on average? Seems quite the anomaly.
But then again, getting to see a renowned baritone in nothing but a loin cloth is something one doesn't see every day...not that's the point of watching this opera, of course ;-)
Has anyone yet mentioned that his singing is top-notch as always?
schweitzer006325 2 years ago
Singing? What singing? -:)
interpreterr 2 years ago
Oh, I must have been mistaken...my eyes seem to have taken more control over my mind than my ears at present...
schweitzer006325 2 years ago
I agree that the loincloth is a cop-out.
However, I'm not sure what would happen if this was staged now. As much as staging conventions have changed in the last two decades, I don't think many of today's established baritones would appear naked on stage. Relatively unknown singers and supers - sure. But singers such as Simon Keenlyside, Peter Mattei or Dmitri Hvorostovsky, who have the same status Allen had in the mid-80s?
(Come to think of it, I have never seen any of them in a loincloth.)
antmusique 2 years ago
Well, I don't think the baritones you mentioned would have any problem with performing in a loincloth - I've seen videos with shirtless Keenlyside and Hvorostovsky and both looked fine (and comfortable-:), so who knows... Mattei I've seen only fully dressed, but even a fully dressed Mattei looks all right to me (I'd love to see him as Ulisse!)
interpreterr 2 years ago
Hvoro and Keenlyside do seem to have a tendency to take their shirts off, but that's still not the same thing as showing up in a loincloth, let alone naked. Today's barihunks are not as brave as Allen was ;)
antmusique 2 years ago
Hey, Tom stripped down to boxers and a wife-beater in "Schicchi" last year, so he's still dedicated to his art. ;)
drtmuir 2 years ago
@drtmuir And to boxers and T-shirt in the ROH Schicchi. The boxers well showed off his legs, which are really very nice.
a96agli 2 years ago
@drtmuir I almost went to L.A. to hear Schicchi. Now I'm sorry I didn't. Of course, I would have gone just to hear Allen's voice. :-)
redhead529 2 years ago
Of course! I hope you're very sorry indeed you didn't go...
interpreterr 2 years ago
Comment removed
drtmuir 2 years ago
A log time to wait. I hope he comes out here to California again.
redhead529 2 years ago
I think he'll do Turco in either SF or LA next season
interpreterr 2 years ago
Thannk you for letting me know. I'll be sure to go this time!
redhead529 2 years ago
Excuse me, but what is a 'wife-beater'? I understand boxers...
zimnaya 1 year ago
@zimnaya I am sorry, that must be an Americanism, and a slightly rude one ;) -- but that is a garment that I have found there are a lot of different names for, even in English. It is what I think the British call a "vest."
drtmuir 1 year ago
@antmusique Those two are shy compared to Schrott and Gunn. Ah, the old days, when baritones didn't need to have standing chest-waxing appointments. :P
drtmuir 1 year ago
I went to see "Ulisse" in Cologne when I was 15 and a huge Thomas Hampson fan. I hereby openly admit that my main reason to travel to Cologne was that I knew from an article I'd get to see Thomas Hampson almost naked in the first scene. Must have been the same staging.
And now, where is that porn clip with Dimitri Hvorostovsky?? *gg*
LilliVanessi 2 years ago
So, was the trip worth it? ;)
As for the Dima clip, search for his name + "Toi et moi".
PS for the Harry Potter fen amongst us: I just searched it to make sure it showed up (it did) and saw that someone did a Lucius Malfoy fanvid using the song. I love the Internet.
antmusique 2 years ago
I second the question about the Cologne trip. I had my doubts about Hampson, but I'd love to hear/see what he could do as Ulisse.
interpreterr 2 years ago
I almost forgot to answer your question about the Cologne trip! Actually, I don't remember Hampson's figure at all. Which might not be the greatest compliment. ;-) I remember him talking about the production in an interview and he was like: "As soon as people will see me naked, they will go: 'Well... he does have a good voice". *ggg*
The Hvorostovsky clip does stimulate my sense for trash. However, from an erotic point of view, a glance by Thomas Allen can be sexier than this whole clip. ;-)
LilliVanessi 2 years ago
And Thomas Allen probably thinks people have been admiring his singing, whereas it's all really been just a glance at and/r by him...:-)
interpreterr 2 years ago
As for Thomas Hampson in Cologne - maybe you weren't really concentrating on his signing...:-). By the way, I think that comment he made about having to appear (nearly) naked is great.
interpreterr 2 years ago
Yes, and he mentioned his love handles, too... I remember that because I had to look it up in the dictionary. *gg*
LilliVanessi 2 years ago
A new term for me too!
interpreterr 2 years ago
Hey, why can't it be both? ;-)
LilliVanessi 2 years ago
I didn't say it can't ;-)
interpreterr 2 years ago
Well, I'm afraid that today his begging would have been unsuccessful! Actually, there's a wonderful Ulisse DVD (under W. Christie) done a few years ago in which Human Frailty (countertenor in this case) is completely naked. But, unlike in that Salzburg production, the stage is very dark...-:)
interpreterr 2 years ago
True...how fortunate then for the countertenor that the staging was dark! I cannot imagine the reaction one would get if one was told that you had to sing stark naked on a very brightly lit stage. O_o
schweitzer006325 2 years ago
How things change - if this was staged now, Allen would almost certainly sans the loin cloth. This is very interesting staging, if a bit overdone.
a96agli 2 years ago
Actually that was indeed supposed to to be the case in the beginning...the only reason why Allen is able to wear the loin cloth is because he literally begged for something to wear in this scene!
schweitzer006325 2 years ago
Oh, and I think this production was in 1985 - the same year Allen made his Salzburg debut.
schweitzer006325 2 years ago
I agree that this had to be 1985-- Allan Bergius, the treble singer who sang Amore, was on the last legs of his unchanged voice. I'm pretty sure that was the year of his stimmbruch, the voice change.
fanofmozart 2 years ago
Thank you so much for posting this up! I've been trying to get a copy of my own for quite a long time but alas, the fact that it is no longer being manufactured by the DVD company makes it exceedingly pricey to purchase.
I'm still new to Baroque opera but as antmusique said, Thomas Allen is definitely an added bonus here.
schweitzer006325 2 years ago
I like Hans Werner Henze, but I'm not sure I like what he did with this. I don't get it.
My introduction to Monteverdi was Poppea, which I loved instantly. I was surprised I liked it so much, because I was fully expecting to be bored to death. I like Ulisse as well.
Anyway, thank you for posting this! I had never seen this production before, and the fact that it features Thomas Allen is definitely an added bonus.
antmusique 2 years ago