@RasPesher "The load factor (or capacity factor) for South Australian wind farms is usually in the range 32-38%" So in fact wind is providing at most 7.98% of the state's power supply and only when the wind is blowing.How often is there a drop in wind enough to lower that figure and make wind quite unreliable? No point in non-coal power if it browns out several times a day if not hours at a time. Still of no great practical use.
Too bored to check the figures so its probably much lower
@MRMILO57 You need to check your figures, wind farms produce 21% of SA's power, not 7.98%. Reason:
• You should only apply the load factor once (not twice).
"and only when the wind is blowing"
• This is already factored into the load factor. You should only apply the load factor once (not a third time as you want to do).
Don't forget that whilst some wind farms may be producing below average, others are producing above the norm. What you lose on the swings you gain on the roundabouts.
Carbon Tax.. what a joke! You are aware that every organic molecule contains carbon, which is what the human body is made from by nature... And WE have to pay tax for being MAN! Get outa of here!
"Climate Change" is actually a cycle of around 60 years. It doesn't exist. Also, Carbon Dioxide is needed for plants to do photosynthisis. We breathe out carbon dioxide and the plants use it to create oxygen so we can breathe! It is just a cycle! Julia has no idea of what she is talking about! I will be making a video showing all the facts with a friend so keep looking. But a carbon tax is pointless!
@AmayFels A Carbon Tax is only pointless if you don't want to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. But that is the point, isn't it. It took nature 4.5 billion years to accumulate 280 ppmV of CO2 in the atmosphere. In the last 150years man has added an additional 111ppmV to the atmosphere. In that time man has also increased ocean acidity. Generally, natural cycles don't simultaneously increase ocean and atmospheric CO2 levels; the latest "cycle" is not natural (and is not a cycle).
@RasPesher It is only something like 0.2% of the atmosphere (I do science @ school) so there is really no point 4 the carbon tax, whether the carbon is made or unmade. Also, Australia only makes up 4% of the worlds carbon emissions!
If the CO2 level was to get to 0.2% we'd all be BBQ'd. Luckily the CO2 level in the atmosphere is only 0.039%. Now for the bad news, even that level may be too high.
On the emissions side, the level the world is currently making is much more than the Earth can sequester. CO2 is building up in the atmosphere. Australia with a 0.33% share of the world population is producing well above the average on a per capita basis.
@AmayFels Since you currently do science at school, may I recomend that you open your text book and look up the age of the Earth prior to your next exam.
Note: Amitsoq Gniesses (ie rocks from Western Greenland) have been dug up and radiometric dated to about 3.7 billion years old.
We don't need any kind of scheme to tackle carbon..... firstly carbon isn't a pollutant, secondly... the market is already by itself sending a signal that energy is costing more and people will demand more cost affective ways of reducing their cost. I wish these governments would leave the market alone.
@MRMILO57 The sky is not going to fall down tomorrow nor when the carbon tax is implemented. In fact I don't think that many people will even notice the difference. If your existing electricity bill is $1200 per year, that would result in electricity costing an extra 10% or $120 per year. Relating that to a family income of $60 k/yr, that would be a cost of only 0.2% of that family income. Buggar all, and that's before any compensation from the government.
@RasPesher l understand what you are explaining. But do consider this, That is a minimum of 10% P/A, guaranteed to increase in the next 10-20 yrs to much higher levels, 10 yrs time, price increase will be P/A 25%. It gets worse!!! The Greenies want to make coal power bass load supply electricity so expensive, dirty solar panels will be the only choice! This is not good, very unreliable source of power supply and still developing technology! What l am saying, is we are being tricked
@MRMILO57 There is no law that says that a person must consume CO2, so in theory the tax can be legally evaded. And that is the aim of the tax.
There are lots of alternative strategies: wind turbines, solar thermal power generation, solar water heaters, solar panels, home insulation, double glazing. As for energy storage there is currently T3 at Talbingo where water can be pumped up hill. As electric cars become more popular they too can be used to store energy for the grid.
@RasPesher Australia is one of the top CO2 polluters per capita! That is what we all have been told to believe? Australia has some of the cleanest air on the planet! this is fact!!!
Wrong! wrong! wrong! Nuclear bass load power is the best alternative to coal, fact! Coal power will be around in 50 yrs!
Wind, Solar, Hydro, is not a reliable source for heavy industry and to feed the growing cities.
Sounds like you live in fairy land, all l hear from you is back to candle power!
@MRMILO57 Australia with 0.33% of the world's population produces 1.3% of the world CO2 pollution. Per capita we produce 4x the world average. Unfortunately the world average is currently too high; so we produce 4x an amount that is already too much.
Hydro unreliable???? What are you talking about? The Snowy Hydro scheme has been producing power since the 50s. Tumut 3 since '74. In the 70s a number of coal fired power station broke down. The Hydro was used to fill the breech.
@RasPesher Don't make excuses, and use statics to justify your lies!
The fact is, Australia emissions are basically nothing. Your lies have become nonsense. But it's all falling apart, you're all desperate to save what cannot be saved, the green lie!
Get over it, nuclear power is safe and reliable, like coal.
@MRMILO57 "Nuclear bass load power is the best alternative to coal"
There you go, you have just added to my list of examples of "alternate strategies."
Adding to my list does not make me wrong; the list was never meant to be exhaustive.
I did not mention geothermal, tidal or wave power either.
Renewables tend to have a high initial cost but once installed the fuel costs are free. The initial costs of solar and wind turbines have been falling rapidly.
@MRMILO57 South Australia the state with 21% of its power, generated by wind turbines has the lowest tariffs. Wind turbines may well represent the future. The best alternative to coal will be determined primarily by price.
The best indication of the main competition to coal may be obtained from the coal industry itself. They are funding community opposition to wind farms. Community groups may be stretching it. They operate from Melbourne & bus people into country townships to protest.
@RasPesher Concerning coal, You filthy greenies have scared off investments and scared share holders not to invest in the coal industry! Well, it hasn't scared me, l have 3 million invested in the coal industry, and l am going to make lots of money in the coming decade!
l think you live in fairy land, what a ridiculous theory. Wind farms on land near homes are a health hazard! Typical thoughts of greenie at how you twist things around.
@MRMILO57 People have live next door to windmills for centuries. An auditorium with a window or door open at one end would oscillate to produce a standing pressure wave of around 1 hz or less. Similar to the way a flute works. A small valley could produce a standing pressure wave of around 1/3 hz. In other words, people experience pressure waves similar to those produced by windmills/windfarms all the time.
@RasPesher You are extremely good at rhetoric and very persuasive. Unfortunately these have nothing to do with reasoned argument and an intention to treat all issues fairly. Arguing to win at all costs is just plain childish. Or in your case creepy zealotry. You only post on YouTube because of petroleum based products and coal power. Respect that currently coal is the most efficient, low cost and reliable power. No evil corporation created this, it is just the realities of science.
@RasPesher reply...21% show me the source with that ridiculous figure!
How come greenie accuses Coal Industry of bussing in protesters = true statement but climate charlatans getting money from AUSTRALIAN TAX PAYERS = a conspiracy?
@MRMILO57 Yes South Australia has a MASSIVE 21% of its electricity generated by Wind Turbines.
Wikipedia: "As of October 2011, South Australia had an installed capacity of 1,205 MW, accounting for 21 per cent of electricity production in the state.
Completed wind farms in SA:
Hallett (350 MW), Lake Bonney (278.5 MW), Waterloo (111 MW), Snowtown (99 MW), Wattle Point (91 MW), Mount Millar (70 MW), Cathedral Rocks (66 MW),
Clements Gap (56 MW), Canunda (46 MW), Starfish Hill (34.5 MW).
Wikipedia: "The load factor (or capacity factor) for South Australian wind farms is usually in the range 32-38%. This means that a wind farm could typically produce between 32 and 38% of its nameplate capacity averaged over a year."
Converting from power capacity to energy produced in a year we get:
1,205 MW x 24hrs/day x 364 days/yr x 35% (load factor) = 3,684 GWh/yr
For comparison: SA Coal generation (2009) = 4,655 GWh/yr,
@MRMILO57 "Coal Industry of bussing in protesters=true statement"
I was specifically refering to the Waubra foundation a "community group" opposed to wind farms in Waubra. I'd expect to find that the members came from Waubra, wouldn't you. But no: "The Waubra Foundation has no physical address in Waubra and, indeed, appears to have no local Waubra resident on its board."- The Ballarat Independent
Its postal address is the same as Guardian Landscapes & it shares a number of directors.
The Waubra Foundation is a front organisation for Guardian Landscapes. This technique is known as "astroturfing". The aim is to set up a No. of shell organisations to obtain additional media attention, each organisation concurring with each other to give the illusion of concensus.
Guardian Landscapes also seems to be a front organisation with links to the Institute of public affairs. Both Guardian landscapes & the Waubra Foundation claim to have no income or expenses.
@RasPesher People have learnt activist techniques from the masters of activism, you greenies!
"astroturfing" yes l do understand - A technique used by Getup Australia, any coal mine or oil protest! Why isn't it fair when you opposition does it?
Wind farmers refuse to acknowledge the distressing effects of Very Low Freq Air Disturbances. Some peoples lives have been ruined by these effects and your kind refuse to care.
@MRMILO57 Wind Turbine Syndrome is most likely bunk. Why?
1) Wind farms produce less noise than the average office from about 300 meters away.
2) There is no published scientific evidence to support adverse effects of wind turbines on health.
3) Anecdotal evidence is highly suspect because fans are ubiquitous. Ceiling fans, air-con fans, bathroom & road tunnel exhaust fans, car fans & personal fans; they are everywhere. Arguably these should also produce low frequency air disturbances.
@MRMILO The alleged symptoms of wind turbine syndrome are sleep deprivation, headaches, dizziness, anxiety, and vertigo. These are the same symptoms supposedly caused by WiFi networks. WiFi works on very low levels of electromagnetic radiation barely distinguishable from background noise. Suspicious yet? You should be.
Not to mention that the symptoms can be psychosomatic. In reality these symptoms are so vague that almost anything (including nothing) can cause them.
@RasPesher Wind turbines are not like wifi or ceiling fans. They affect air pressure at less than 1Hz. It has nothing to do with noise, vibration or microwaves (I kid, wifi is not microwaves). Exactly how this works is not known but sub 1Hz variations of pressure quite likely affect the internal ear and balance. It seems entirely reasonable that wind farms are stopped until this issue is properly determined.
Most wind supporters don't live near them damn things.
@MRMILO57 I had not heard of GetUp before. My purpose in mentioning "astroturfing" is the particular way its being used to bring in restrictive trade practices; practices based on medical lies. The coal industry are deliberately trying to hide their involvement behind these front organisations. This is an area in which the ACCC should investigate. The activity is currupt to the core.
The government now charges for BASIX (Building and Sustainability Index) certificates required for building or extending your home, they used to be free, this will rake millions for the government every year.
everyone conveniently ignores the fact that the money collected from this carbon tax is not going to be used for combatting the alleged build up of global carbon.
It is just a blatant money grab and most disgusting of all is that we will pay the United Nations a blank cheque of 3-4 billion dollars, just in a vain attempt to buy Rudd a top job at the United Nations and pander to the UNHCR and Bob Brown.
@MrBITS101 What are you talking about? If it truely was a blank cheque, you would not be able to state its value!
Australia is one of the top CO2 polluters per capita. Even ahead of America and Canada. I suppose you think that the 3rd world nations should pay to clean up the mess made by the affluent nations (or should I say carbon effluent nations). What else is the 3rd world for, right?
snap out of it australia, you are being f22ked..who do you think is getting your tax..the riches people on earth with the biggest houses and jets and the biggest carbon foot print..al gore rockafellas rothschilds royals un cfr eu bilderberge group...wake up in our life time we will see the n w o if we dont stop it..for us our kids and our grand kids sake..pls pls pls wake up
@guitatac yes wake up to the fact that our Government spends $Billions of tax dollars on infrastructure, education, welfare, national security.... but no of course it ALL goes to the wealthy people... you know the ones we are trying to tax.
The polluters will pay for their pollution. That is what our grandchildren need. Otherwise our grandchildren will pay for OUR faults and the WEALTHY CORPORATIONS faults.
@beamla go spill your bullshit propaganda to some one els you,ve got blinders on to the world.....an go suck al gore off.....your well dumbed down ......sorry for being harsh but i only have time for people trying to wake up.not pro al gore pro gillard ...bullshit
snap out of it australia, you are being f22ked..who do you think is getting your tax..the riches people on earth with the biggest houses and jets and the biggest carbon foot print..al gore rockafellas rothschilds royals un cfr eu bilderberge group...wake up in our life time we will see the n w o if we dont stop it..for us our kids and our grand kids sake..pls pls pls wake up
Federal Treasury analysis shows the Opposition's direct action climate change policy would cost twice as much as a carbon tax for the same reduction in emissions.
Try my channel for 2011 real climate science conference,It's called 6th International conference on climate change held in The US.Scroll down the uploads column,they are in no particular order however the Q&A videos should be watched after the others and do read my description of the video.Enjoy
there will be no gst under a howard goverment.... but there was. we got over it and ironically voted for howard again at the next election. the carbon tax isnt the end of the world
On 7/28/11, it was revealed that the scientist behind the polar-bears-are-in-trouble research is being investigated for “scientific misconduct”. Then, a new study of NASA data revealed that the earth is actually allowing more heat to escape the planet than previously thought by the climate change community. During a speech at the Aspen Institute in Colorado, Al Gore launched into a vulgar tirade while accusing skeptics of media manipulation. (Read United Nations Agenda 21)
@MrVerily - Also in terms of the redistribution of income, Garnaut's indepth review on the scheme begs to differ. Also the ad-hominems could be done without. Don't paint me as sime sort of hardcore labour supporter seeing as you have no idea where my political leanings are. For the record I was against the cap-and-trade scheme but believe the Carbon Tax is the best way deal with climate change. If you can suggest otherwise....
Professor Václav Klaus who recently spoke at the National Press Club spent fifteen years working on economic computer models similar to the one Prof. Garnaut used. He is convinced that this type of economic model used to create the Carbon Tax is completely flawed and the Tax will do nothing but damage our economy.
@MrVerily - also there is nothing wrong with debt as long as it's sustainable. Most debt that would occur from your given scenario would actually be private debt, which is most of the time financiable because Australia has a really good credit history. If you want more examples of a 'green' economy , see German's economy.
@MrVerily - first of all industries have been shut down in the past and it hasn't been damaging. deregulation of 1980s, especially, saw a change in our resource allocation, where a whole heap of ineffiecient bussinesses were forced to shut down, but this made the Australian economy incredibly efficient. Going by your premise of an 'airy fairy' world, power stations would have to innovate with renewable energy or close down, where government would have to subsidise, but not to a damaging extent.
The industries which have been shut down have not been base load power stations.
Ii is complete fantasy thinking we can shut down our coal power stations and replace them with solar and wind ones.
This will never happen.
Wind cannot provide base load power. Solar can, but you are looking at building a power plant the size of Tasmania to be able to provide enough power to run our state on a cold winters night.
@MrVerily - she's a pretty a credited economist. and wrong. her argument (if you bothered reading) is the economists theory on the price effect. that at a certain price demand falls because people don't can't afford it. as a result industries are forced to become more efficient if they want to keep profit margins. this is what the carbon tax would effectively do. it won't obliterate the use of carbon, but it will force industries to innovate and churn out less carbon.
Most of these people have a reasonable amount in Tax deductions so it is reasonable to say that most of them currently pay very little Tax if any on their few hundred bucks each a week.
@MrVerily Those who pay no tax due to not earning enough will have their incomes boosted, everyone else up to a reasonable income will pay less tax. simple. done. the sky does not fall in.
The poor, the working class, the 25% of coal miners who will loose their jobs are all in serious trouble, infact we all are.
It is becoming clear for everyone to see this is a financial cancer; as businesses are already starting to charge their customers more in anticipation of the Tax and it isn't even Law yet.
Lets also not forget that these people are completely dishonest and can't be trusted, no one can deny this. Just like you and your mates, they are lying scum.
@MrVerily You clearly don't understand economics.... Australian Govts of all persuasions survive on the back of the business class and low unemployment. They are not going to willingly cause mass economic problems. The carbon tax is actually quite a weak policy, it's ridiculous that you think it's a harsh policy. It's piss weak, the economy will deal easily with it.
Idiots like Irvine who have never been in business do not understand the way business people think. Because this is not a simple Tax like the GST; businesses are going to overcharge to try and compensate for the unknown cost in transport and energy associated with the products and services they are selling. This will snowball and create inflation like we have never seen. It is an economy destroyer.
Yuppie public servants who live in Canberra and earn 50K plus for doing nothing of value will receive $1800 each, thank you very much to her majesty.
They will no longer pay the 15% on the money they earn between $6000 and $18000.
The fact is the poor and the working class won't be faced with an extra $515, what is far more likely according to the more conservative estimates is a little over $2000, just to start.
Her majesty evil queen Julia proposes to give them back $300 to cope with the financial tsunami of the Carbon Tax. The problem is even with Labors ridiculous prediction of $515 each, these people will be left with less money on an already very tight budget.
Her second argument talks about the gracious Queen Julia, her majesty giving money back to the working poor to cope with her Tax.
Just so you know there are large numbers of working poor and small business people in the early stages of their business that currently don't pay any Tax on their couple of hundred bucks a week.
Even in the airy fairy world of having wind turbines and solar power systems providing all our base load power, we would still have to close down our existing power stations. This will cost enormous amounts of money, which we don't have.
We would have to borrow more money than we earn to do this.
We would make our future generations a slave to Government debt.
Hearing lectures from paid non qualified so called weather experts who have never had their head out a window into the real world of climate over the past 30 years is the fodder for fools.
Dr Latif from the Intergovernmental Climate Change Panel{ICCP} latest research 2011 suggest the earth is moving into a cooling cycle and it will remain that way for 20 years. This is consistent with the particularly cold winters the earth is experiencing now.
Dr Latif is from the ICCP who the Labor Government uses as its main scientific justification behind the massive new Tax, has developed a new way of measuring Ocean Temperatures.
@MrVerily Thanks for that . i will read up on it ,makes more sense than Flannery/Garnought rubbish being fed to us, and more in line with what i believe true, it is complex to measure ocean temps as there can be variations + -
1 to 4 degrees over short distances, my physical readings taken last month east coast Sydney / Cairns show Cairns down 3d and Sydney up 3 d very strange this time of year, my log records go back 30 years and show changes in sea temps up to - 7 drop in 1 day
A new study in the peer-reviewed science journal "Remote Sensing" has found that United Nations computer models may be incorrect in overstating the amount of global warming that will occur in the future. James M. Taylor says it would be wise for the media, elected officials and climate scientists to recognize the “huge discrepancy” between global warming predictors and NASA’s satellite data.
All this Loony Government has done is divided a Nation , 80% dont want either the tax or the pathetic excuse as a federal Government , read out lips Labour WE DONT WANT YOU , Australia wants a new election , this time a real election without deceit.
@mehanna Meh, I haven't earned enough and am still within the tax-free threshold but I agree with you on one thing. I'd rather have Labor with Gillard as the president than have to deal with Tony Abbott.
And by the frign way, were a so called democracy not a dictatorship, we don't want it, yet were getting it, so we are in fact, technically a dictatorship. So there we have it...So what do we do now? We've fought dictatoships before!? So why isnt anyone doing something radical, like calling on the Queen to sack her? Or riots in the streets?? WTFs' going on, our ancestors would be ashamed of ALL of us right now!!!
You all need to go heartlandDOTorg it is the 6th international conference on climate change and most of the scientist's agree that ........ well watch the video section for yourself.every year scientist's FOR climate change are invited but few show up,the first video is FOR and the rest mainly against with real evidence of what's going on.heartlandDOTorg click on the tab 6th international conference on climate change and go through the video's of the event,the science is not settled!!!
Go to the SOS-NEWS website and read the article called- Global Warming Scam is DEAD ! ,Speaking were the world’s foremost climate scientists. They discussed on the latest evidence in the field of climatology and explained the most recent peer reviewed scientific discoveries. And one thing from their talks is crystal clear: when it comes to the battle of ideas, the apocalyptic man-made global warming scam is DEAD. 6th International Conference On Climate Change Calls Out Bob Brown as a Fraud
humans account for 4% of co2 emissions the rest is natural,the sun is causing this "global warming"
what the tree huggers wont tell you is that every other planet in the solar system is warming so how are suv's and coal fired power staions causing this?!?
Wake up hippies!! if they get this tax through it will only go up & up!!.
it has already ruined NZ! dont let them fool you!!
What does being a Muslim have to do with the Carbon Tax?? Of course the entire panel had to address the question - they'd be acused of racism if they didn't!!
AUSTRALIA JUST BROUGHT IN CARBON TAX $23/TON INCREASED 2.5% EVERY YEAR UNTIL 2015/2016!!! AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD INCREASE $10/WEEK!!! INFLATION INCREASE 1%!!! TAX UP 2.5%-4%!!!! BIGGEST PROPAGANDA THEFT IN HISTORY!!!!
@adnt08 Other planets don't have atmospheres exactly like ours- that is why its freezing cold on the moon. Ours is traps heat. The Earth is warming and the only reasonable explanation is through the excess green house gases that have built up from human burning of fossil fuels.
@adnt08 Reason is stopping your slippery slope argument. Oxygen is not a greenhouse gas. To suggest that 7 Billion people and what they consume have no effect on the Earth is naive. Don't tell me about UN conspiracy theories. Why am I bothering?
@MegaFrogzor redistribution of wealth = socialism? What do you call public education then? Money is taxed from personal incomes (with the wealthy paying higher rates) and then spent on services. That is a form of wealth redistribution. You are a fool.
there is an alternative to the carbon tax that will reduce emissions, create tens of thousands of long term jobs and reduce electricity bills to $8 per week for the average Aussie household. watch?v=qImNRuV4G0Q
I understand that people that come to Australia hold a certain set of values. But it is when these values conflict with Australia's values that a problem arises.
@nurone11 That's the problem, Islam has Three Dimensions: Religious Dimension = no problem, But when it has a Social Dimension and a Political Dimension, that we have a problem of values that are incompatible with Australia Values and Dimensions!
This is such a rediculous debate! The precedence is being established to tax and control every aspect of human life...
CFC's, lead-fuel. and immortal plastic bags are all history because of proper legislation and consumer pressure. This price on carbon has nothing to do with reducing climate change. Wake up Aussie we do not need this carbon tax!
@NowForTruth Wow you really hit that one on the head. CFCs and lead fuel are gone because of consumer pressure? No they're gone because GOVERNMENTS took action against those problems. A carbon tax is the most economically efficient way to restructure the economy. A carbon price is a signal to the free market to invest in renewables... as a consumer you will be compensated for the price rises by the govt (from the tax revenue raised).
@beamla yeh look I fully agree in principle. I just do not wish to fund a global government that has any authority over my life-style. And if you do not know that is what it is all about then you simply havnt looked into it. I wish you would because you seem intelligent!
@NowForTruth I know the New World Order theories that you're speaking about. Personally, all the evidence I've seen is baseless (I'm being polite). Usually bits of soundbites with a politician using the phrase "new world order" obviously not in the context of an oppressive world government. Which begs the question, if this is such a secret plan for global governance then why would they be so careless to give it away in soundbites? The theory is imported from the US.
@beamla no I don't think you do know. Thanks for being polite we can at least be civil. Could it be possible to open a dialogue and a debate that does not involve each side dismissing the other as co-opted fools? My concerns are genuine and I am not a paranoid. I am not being deliberately difficult. After thousands of hours of research I turned from a greenie into a conservative liberal. I am 35. I was planting trees and removing bitou bush when I was 11... What if I am right about this?
@NowForTruth I can accept that it is possible (just as many things are possible). However, the evidence is lacking. Secondly, it depends what a person's idea of New World Order is. We have already had a new world order since WW2. The world order is not fixed in time, it is rapidly changing with the rise of India and China. It will change again. The idea of a small group controlling world affairs honestly does not make any sense when you consider the complexity of world events. No evidence...
@beamla Forget about the NWO for a minute friend; just think about this new tax. The Companies already set up to trade in carbon, who owns them or who has large share portions in them, E.G Al Gore and the like. Or the U.N advocate for this tax for 30 years trying to push this through the U.N then invested in a Chinese car Company to flood the U.S with extreme polluting Chinese cars, what's this about? It's about money and control, it's a conspiracy friend, and it’s certainly not a theory!
@therealshlong It's a theory. It's also a lame attempt at demonising Al Gore all cos he made some movie. Industries are profit driven and the ones who stand to lose out from less fossil fuel use are the loudest and the most well funded. Al Gore versus the fossil fuel industry doesn't compute. (Oh no but that's what they want you to think!). Theory. It's amazing that you can believe that holed theory, but apparently find global warming less convincing.
@beamla So fact is now Theory? Mmm, when did that happen? I wasnt inform about this...By the way the Corporates do not lose out of this deal, they simply pass on the costs to the consumer.
@therealshlong And the top 1000 emitting businesses that can innovate and reduce emissions will reduce their carbon tax burden. It's simple- there is a clear incentive for them to innovate. Over time emissions get reduced at the lowest market cost through an Emissions Trading Scheme. The consumers are compensated for price rises. What is so hard to understand?
@beamla It's cheaper to send it O/S, easier to just pass the cost onto the consumer. Large Companies dont pay for 1 cent of any government tax or levies, they pass it straight on to us, we have to buy fuel, bread, etc so why would they obsorb the cost themselves? Nothing wrong in reducing pollution generally, it's the barking up the wrong tree and knowing it scenario i don't like, it's about lining the elites pockets, the makers of this entire scheme do not give a shit about the $enviroment$
@therealshlong ... and the businesses that can reduce costs/prices will increase their business profits. Capitalism is about lining elites pockets. It is ridiculous that you believe only climate change or carbon pricing is doing that. This is how our economy works.
@therealshlong It's a circular argument as well. Answer to send it O/S = free permits and compensation to prevent that. Costs for households = compensation. And the rest that I've said still applies businesses will reduce emissions.
@beamla Cost for households = how much of those tax $ leave this country. As a tax payer I’m compensating myself, the value of how much every tax $ leaving this country is whats going to come out of my pocket. Grade 2 math. The simple fact is a Company will produce O/S if it's more cost effective, compensation or not, is how business works. The only thing circular about this entire debacle is the fact i keep seeing labour in power every 10 or so frign years giving everone the shits again!
@therealshlong The business will obviously not get the compensation if they move overseas... and in case you haven't noticed we've already lost huge amounts of industry overseas without a carbon price. Yes as a tax payer you are compensating yourself just like everyone else. END RESULT of all this = $20-$30 MARKET PRICE for the top businesses that create carbon emissions and aren't trade exposed. It is likely trade exposed businesses won't end up paying anything (and therefore staying).
@beamla No, they won't BECAUSE THEY DONT NEED TO BE BECAUSE THERE IS NO TAX THERE! And no they won't pay anything! THEY WILL PASS THE COSTS ON TO THE CONSUMER! Look, anyone for this tax is either very very wealthy and has already invested in the Carbon companies, or they are brainwashed into believing its man that's caused the problem when it's actually solar activity, ever watched the doco's about millions of years ago climate chance caused this or that! You reckon they had industry back then?
@therealshlong But if they are getting compensated then there is no real difference between Australia and country x. This makes perfect sense. Businesses will reduce emissions this is basic economics- as all the economists are saying. I suspect you just have something against Labor Govts and this has little to do with the sound policy itself.
@beamla Your not understanding, compensation will come from myself, [the tax payer] outgoing money is the difference i'll be paying plus the extra large Companies will put on their products, moreover do you really believe the government will continue compensating? No. Do some research on the people who originally came up with this idea, Rothchilds, Al Gore, Maurice Strong, bilderburg group, the list goes on! Wake up friend, were being scammed! Unless of course your an investor in Carbon Co's ;-)
@therealshlong You have an interest in ignoring any other logical arguments because you believe this Rothchild, Gore blah... It wouldn't matter how logical my argument is you are obsessed with a cute sounding conspiracy theory without evidence that helps you make sense of the world. The compensation comes from the tax payer's being the big polluters.... where do you think Tony Abbott's direct action tax comes from? Paying big polluters money from general revenue (your personal income tax).Think!
@beamla Firstly someone trying to legally steal from you is not cute, this is not just about the $ here, it's the power these laws wield over the community and business. Definition of a conspiracy: An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act. Oh, then you legislate it, then it's legal. Again, Not cute! ...
You’re ignoring the exported funds again, and of course any tax comes out of the tax payers pocket, that's what i've been trying to get through your head!
@beamla So you vote green, want gay marriage, want to de populate the world, drive a large 4x4, you take more flights on aircraft in a year than most of us do in a lifetime, live in the city, go to restaurants, you drive down to the peninsula on weekends and want that damb tree blocking your bay view cut down type of guy right. I've seen too many like you in my time; the smell of hypocrisy is surely reaching the heavens!!
Maybe your just a, always vote Labour kind of guy??
@beamla Who knows, there is 3 types here, loaded hypocrit, Labour voter who would still vote even if they were shooting people in the street or one brainwashed by media. Anyway, looks like were all gonna cop it up the ass yet again. I'm attending a meeting to discuss how much EXTRA it's going to cost the building industry. Either the cost gets passed on or we obsorb it, to stay competative looks most will be letting someone go..most industries will be talking the same.
@therealshlong For what it's worth I hope you and the industry come out of this OK, and if I were in your situation I would be worried too. We can't do without builders and the construction industry. It sucks when construction slows down like it did after the GFC when big projects couldn't get funding or just didn't go ahead. I really do care about our country and want us to have a high tech energy, construction and manufacturing sector in 20-30 years. I can see this plan doing that.
@beamla With less workers and cheaper O/S products. This plan will see China do very well indeed, far as AU goes, mining’s the only thing keeping our pants up, rest of us are doing it hard. Were about to see the U.S default, their hanging on for dear life puppertering the opec countries so they don't start using gold or SDRs instead of the U.S dollar. This is the last thing we need, if they want control and money how’s about helping us all to create wealth first, then we may have some to give!
@therealshlong We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world... our economy and the goods we consume is far larger than 15, 30, 50 years ago. We have 5% unemployment... Compare that to the rest of the world and it puts it in perspective. Yes mining is important, but what about the other 92% non mining part of our economy? I think (know) people are better off materially but we're just unhappy because we spend more time working and buying shit... and not actually living.
@beamla I had earnt over 100k combined income and were still not able to afford holidays?? Ave mortgage, few kids. There seemed to always be someone with their hand out, i say oh look, i have 5k, then the tax man says, "thanks" or the rates and 2 rego's, again "thanks" Compare the cost of living to other countries, the U.S is now paying .85c per litre of fuel and their calling for revalution! The only money we spend is the banks, the rest goes to those with their hand outs. That aint wealth!
@therealshlong 50 years ago most people couldn't afford to go on holidays... but it depends what you mean. A weekend away? Taxes pay for the things that we need for the society to keep ticking over... they pay for the things that indirectly keep you in business. That is the private sector (for profit) cannot run without the government building and maintaining all our roads, public transport, schools, courts/police and hospitals. Yeah bills and tax suck and working in general sucks.
@RasPesher "The load factor (or capacity factor) for South Australian wind farms is usually in the range 32-38%" So in fact wind is providing at most 7.98% of the state's power supply and only when the wind is blowing.How often is there a drop in wind enough to lower that figure and make wind quite unreliable? No point in non-coal power if it browns out several times a day if not hours at a time. Still of no great practical use.
Too bored to check the figures so its probably much lower
MRMILO57 3 days ago
@MRMILO57 You need to check your figures, wind farms produce 21% of SA's power, not 7.98%. Reason:
• You should only apply the load factor once (not twice).
"and only when the wind is blowing"
• This is already factored into the load factor. You should only apply the load factor once (not a third time as you want to do).
Don't forget that whilst some wind farms may be producing below average, others are producing above the norm. What you lose on the swings you gain on the roundabouts.
RasPesher 1 day ago
@MRMILO57 "seems entirely reasonable that wind farms are stopped until this issue is properly determined" - Wow, what you let in with that -
According to this standard it seems ENTIRELY REASONABLE that:
• all coal fired power stations (CFPSs) are STOPPED until the issue of global warming is sorted out.
• all CFPSs are STOPPED until the issue of ocean acidification is sorted out.
• all CFPSs are STOPPED until the issue of cooling tower related fog (causes accidents) is sorted out etc.
RasPesher 1 day ago
@MRMILO57 Note that the "35% LOAD FACTOR" was already incorporated into the 21% of South Australia's energy productiom figure for the year:
"Converting from power capacity to energy produced in a year we get:
1,205 MW x 24hrs/day x 364 days/yr x 35% (load factor) = 3,684 GWh/yr"
On a windy day it would be possible that SA gets over 50% of its energy supply from wind.
Don't forget that Coal Fired Power Stations also have outages. They have somewhere between 60-90% load factor.
RasPesher 1 day ago
global warming is a scam
/watch?v=j97bzH7DFtg&feature=related
RagnorokLoki 1 month ago
Carbon Tax.. what a joke! You are aware that every organic molecule contains carbon, which is what the human body is made from by nature... And WE have to pay tax for being MAN! Get outa of here!
OrganizedReactions 1 month ago
The people should take their carbon credits and stick it up the global warming carbon taxers anus's
ChristopherMonckton5 4 months ago
"Climate Change" is actually a cycle of around 60 years. It doesn't exist. Also, Carbon Dioxide is needed for plants to do photosynthisis. We breathe out carbon dioxide and the plants use it to create oxygen so we can breathe! It is just a cycle! Julia has no idea of what she is talking about! I will be making a video showing all the facts with a friend so keep looking. But a carbon tax is pointless!
AmayFels 4 months ago
@AmayFels If this were true then 60 years ago glacier melt rates would have been the same.
Atmospheric CO2 would have been the same.
Ocean temperatures would have been.. guess what? THE SAME.
But they're not. Global warming is real, and urgent. And we're still doing shit fuck all about it.
Keinlicht 4 months ago
@Keinlicht That is if u believe in evolution
AmayFels 5 days ago
@AmayFels ....change over time? I wasn't aware that was a "belief" issue
Keinlicht 5 days ago
@AmayFels A Carbon Tax is only pointless if you don't want to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. But that is the point, isn't it. It took nature 4.5 billion years to accumulate 280 ppmV of CO2 in the atmosphere. In the last 150years man has added an additional 111ppmV to the atmosphere. In that time man has also increased ocean acidity. Generally, natural cycles don't simultaneously increase ocean and atmospheric CO2 levels; the latest "cycle" is not natural (and is not a cycle).
RasPesher 2 months ago
@AmayFels cont...
With natural cycles:
"Driven by temperature, oceans release and absorb CO2." - Galileo Movement
The Galileo Movement is a pack of climate change denialists but even they agree on this point.
So we can safely conclude that the increase in atmospheric CO2 is NOT natural.
RasPesher 2 months ago
@RasPesher It is only something like 0.2% of the atmosphere (I do science @ school) so there is really no point 4 the carbon tax, whether the carbon is made or unmade. Also, Australia only makes up 4% of the worlds carbon emissions!
AmayFels 5 days ago
@AmayFels Hey! I went to school once.
If the CO2 level was to get to 0.2% we'd all be BBQ'd. Luckily the CO2 level in the atmosphere is only 0.039%. Now for the bad news, even that level may be too high.
On the emissions side, the level the world is currently making is much more than the Earth can sequester. CO2 is building up in the atmosphere. Australia with a 0.33% share of the world population is producing well above the average on a per capita basis.
RasPesher 5 days ago
@RasPesher The earth hasn't been around that long so I'm going 2 lable ur comment as a fairytale. :)
AmayFels 5 days ago
@AmayFels Since you currently do science at school, may I recomend that you open your text book and look up the age of the Earth prior to your next exam.
Note: Amitsoq Gniesses (ie rocks from Western Greenland) have been dug up and radiometric dated to about 3.7 billion years old.
RasPesher 5 days ago
I think Rudd will be back and win the election if Abbot is still leader of the opposition and then Shorten will take over and win the one after.
zzsharka 4 months ago
ABC= All Bloody Cunts....
breadbaker226 4 months ago
We don't need any kind of scheme to tackle carbon..... firstly carbon isn't a pollutant, secondly... the market is already by itself sending a signal that energy is costing more and people will demand more cost affective ways of reducing their cost. I wish these governments would leave the market alone.
o0POSH0o 4 months ago
this is a "kangaroo media panel" and phony audience..... can't they have chosen better people?
o0POSH0o 4 months ago
I will ask you again Mr Brown and Miss Gillard, is this carbon tax with dying for?
MRMILO57 5 months ago
@MRMILO57 The sky is not going to fall down tomorrow nor when the carbon tax is implemented. In fact I don't think that many people will even notice the difference. If your existing electricity bill is $1200 per year, that would result in electricity costing an extra 10% or $120 per year. Relating that to a family income of $60 k/yr, that would be a cost of only 0.2% of that family income. Buggar all, and that's before any compensation from the government.
RasPesher 2 months ago
@RasPesher l understand what you are explaining. But do consider this, That is a minimum of 10% P/A, guaranteed to increase in the next 10-20 yrs to much higher levels, 10 yrs time, price increase will be P/A 25%. It gets worse!!! The Greenies want to make coal power bass load supply electricity so expensive, dirty solar panels will be the only choice! This is not good, very unreliable source of power supply and still developing technology! What l am saying, is we are being tricked
MRMILO57 2 months ago
@MRMILO57 There is no law that says that a person must consume CO2, so in theory the tax can be legally evaded. And that is the aim of the tax.
There are lots of alternative strategies: wind turbines, solar thermal power generation, solar water heaters, solar panels, home insulation, double glazing. As for energy storage there is currently T3 at Talbingo where water can be pumped up hill. As electric cars become more popular they too can be used to store energy for the grid.
RasPesher 2 months ago
@RasPesher Australia is one of the top CO2 polluters per capita! That is what we all have been told to believe? Australia has some of the cleanest air on the planet! this is fact!!!
Wrong! wrong! wrong! Nuclear bass load power is the best alternative to coal, fact! Coal power will be around in 50 yrs!
Wind, Solar, Hydro, is not a reliable source for heavy industry and to feed the growing cities.
Sounds like you live in fairy land, all l hear from you is back to candle power!
MRMILO57 2 months ago
@MRMILO57 Australia with 0.33% of the world's population produces 1.3% of the world CO2 pollution. Per capita we produce 4x the world average. Unfortunately the world average is currently too high; so we produce 4x an amount that is already too much.
Hydro unreliable???? What are you talking about? The Snowy Hydro scheme has been producing power since the 50s. Tumut 3 since '74. In the 70s a number of coal fired power station broke down. The Hydro was used to fill the breech.
RasPesher 4 days ago
@RasPesher Don't make excuses, and use statics to justify your lies!
The fact is, Australia emissions are basically nothing. Your lies have become nonsense. But it's all falling apart, you're all desperate to save what cannot be saved, the green lie!
Get over it, nuclear power is safe and reliable, like coal.
You always have been wrong and always will be.
MRMILO57 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MRMILO57 "Nuclear bass load power is the best alternative to coal"
There you go, you have just added to my list of examples of "alternate strategies."
Adding to my list does not make me wrong; the list was never meant to be exhaustive.
I did not mention geothermal, tidal or wave power either.
Renewables tend to have a high initial cost but once installed the fuel costs are free. The initial costs of solar and wind turbines have been falling rapidly.
RasPesher 4 days ago
@MRMILO57 South Australia the state with 21% of its power, generated by wind turbines has the lowest tariffs. Wind turbines may well represent the future. The best alternative to coal will be determined primarily by price.
The best indication of the main competition to coal may be obtained from the coal industry itself. They are funding community opposition to wind farms. Community groups may be stretching it. They operate from Melbourne & bus people into country townships to protest.
RasPesher 4 days ago
@RasPesher Concerning coal, You filthy greenies have scared off investments and scared share holders not to invest in the coal industry! Well, it hasn't scared me, l have 3 million invested in the coal industry, and l am going to make lots of money in the coming decade!
l think you live in fairy land, what a ridiculous theory. Wind farms on land near homes are a health hazard! Typical thoughts of greenie at how you twist things around.
MRMILO57 3 days ago
@MRMILO57 People have live next door to windmills for centuries. An auditorium with a window or door open at one end would oscillate to produce a standing pressure wave of around 1 hz or less. Similar to the way a flute works. A small valley could produce a standing pressure wave of around 1/3 hz. In other words, people experience pressure waves similar to those produced by windmills/windfarms all the time.
Conclusion: Your medical claim is a hoax
RasPesher 1 day ago
@RasPesher You are extremely good at rhetoric and very persuasive. Unfortunately these have nothing to do with reasoned argument and an intention to treat all issues fairly. Arguing to win at all costs is just plain childish. Or in your case creepy zealotry. You only post on YouTube because of petroleum based products and coal power. Respect that currently coal is the most efficient, low cost and reliable power. No evil corporation created this, it is just the realities of science.
MRMILO57 17 hours ago
@RasPesher Save yourself complicated replies, no one is really listening.
Greenism and it's brainwashing is finally being exposed for what it is.
Have a nice day, no bad feelings.
MRMILO57 17 hours ago
@RasPesher reply...21% show me the source with that ridiculous figure!
How come greenie accuses Coal Industry of bussing in protesters = true statement but climate charlatans getting money from AUSTRALIAN TAX PAYERS = a conspiracy?
Who is the conspiracy theorist here? IT'S YOU.
MRMILO57 3 days ago
@MRMILO57 Yes South Australia has a MASSIVE 21% of its electricity generated by Wind Turbines.
Wikipedia: "As of October 2011, South Australia had an installed capacity of 1,205 MW, accounting for 21 per cent of electricity production in the state.
Completed wind farms in SA:
Hallett (350 MW), Lake Bonney (278.5 MW), Waterloo (111 MW), Snowtown (99 MW), Wattle Point (91 MW), Mount Millar (70 MW), Cathedral Rocks (66 MW),
Clements Gap (56 MW), Canunda (46 MW), Starfish Hill (34.5 MW).
RasPesher 3 days ago
@MRMIL057 Cont..
Wikipedia: "The load factor (or capacity factor) for South Australian wind farms is usually in the range 32-38%. This means that a wind farm could typically produce between 32 and 38% of its nameplate capacity averaged over a year."
Converting from power capacity to energy produced in a year we get:
1,205 MW x 24hrs/day x 364 days/yr x 35% (load factor) = 3,684 GWh/yr
For comparison: SA Coal generation (2009) = 4,655 GWh/yr,
SA Gas generation (2009) = 6,917 GWh/yr
RasPesher 3 days ago
@MRMILO57 "Coal Industry of bussing in protesters=true statement"
I was specifically refering to the Waubra foundation a "community group" opposed to wind farms in Waubra. I'd expect to find that the members came from Waubra, wouldn't you. But no: "The Waubra Foundation has no physical address in Waubra and, indeed, appears to have no local Waubra resident on its board."- The Ballarat Independent
Its postal address is the same as Guardian Landscapes & it shares a number of directors.
RasPesher 3 days ago
@MRMILO57 Cont..
The Waubra Foundation is a front organisation for Guardian Landscapes. This technique is known as "astroturfing". The aim is to set up a No. of shell organisations to obtain additional media attention, each organisation concurring with each other to give the illusion of concensus.
Guardian Landscapes also seems to be a front organisation with links to the Institute of public affairs. Both Guardian landscapes & the Waubra Foundation claim to have no income or expenses.
RasPesher 3 days ago
@MRMILO57 Guardian Landscapes and the Waubra foundation certainly seems to have expenses. So who pays?
The Institute of public affairs is heavily funded by:
BHP Billiton, Western Mining, Caltex, Esso Australia (a subsidiary of Exxon), Shell and Woodside Petroleum, The Murdoch Press: News Ltd.
RasPesher 3 days ago
@RasPesher People have learnt activist techniques from the masters of activism, you greenies!
"astroturfing" yes l do understand - A technique used by Getup Australia, any coal mine or oil protest! Why isn't it fair when you opposition does it?
Wind farmers refuse to acknowledge the distressing effects of Very Low Freq Air Disturbances. Some peoples lives have been ruined by these effects and your kind refuse to care.
MRMILO57 3 days ago
@MRMILO57 Wind Turbine Syndrome is most likely bunk. Why?
1) Wind farms produce less noise than the average office from about 300 meters away.
2) There is no published scientific evidence to support adverse effects of wind turbines on health.
3) Anecdotal evidence is highly suspect because fans are ubiquitous. Ceiling fans, air-con fans, bathroom & road tunnel exhaust fans, car fans & personal fans; they are everywhere. Arguably these should also produce low frequency air disturbances.
RasPesher 2 days ago
@MRMILO The alleged symptoms of wind turbine syndrome are sleep deprivation, headaches, dizziness, anxiety, and vertigo. These are the same symptoms supposedly caused by WiFi networks. WiFi works on very low levels of electromagnetic radiation barely distinguishable from background noise. Suspicious yet? You should be.
Not to mention that the symptoms can be psychosomatic. In reality these symptoms are so vague that almost anything (including nothing) can cause them.
MYTH EXPOSED!
RasPesher 2 days ago
@RasPesher Wind turbines are not like wifi or ceiling fans. They affect air pressure at less than 1Hz. It has nothing to do with noise, vibration or microwaves (I kid, wifi is not microwaves). Exactly how this works is not known but sub 1Hz variations of pressure quite likely affect the internal ear and balance. It seems entirely reasonable that wind farms are stopped until this issue is properly determined.
Most wind supporters don't live near them damn things.
MRMILO57 2 days ago
@MRMILO57 I had not heard of GetUp before. My purpose in mentioning "astroturfing" is the particular way its being used to bring in restrictive trade practices; practices based on medical lies. The coal industry are deliberately trying to hide their involvement behind these front organisations. This is an area in which the ACCC should investigate. The activity is currupt to the core.
RasPesher 2 days ago
The government now charges for BASIX (Building and Sustainability Index) certificates required for building or extending your home, they used to be free, this will rake millions for the government every year.
tck661s 5 months ago
The true purpose of carbon tax law is never debated. Australian soverignty,
TheExpertCritique 5 months ago
everyone conveniently ignores the fact that the money collected from this carbon tax is not going to be used for combatting the alleged build up of global carbon.
It is just a blatant money grab and most disgusting of all is that we will pay the United Nations a blank cheque of 3-4 billion dollars, just in a vain attempt to buy Rudd a top job at the United Nations and pander to the UNHCR and Bob Brown.
MrBITS101 5 months ago
@MrBITS101 What are you talking about? If it truely was a blank cheque, you would not be able to state its value!
Australia is one of the top CO2 polluters per capita. Even ahead of America and Canada. I suppose you think that the 3rd world nations should pay to clean up the mess made by the affluent nations (or should I say carbon effluent nations). What else is the 3rd world for, right?
RasPesher 2 months ago
@guitatac .... I dont know where to start.... just no.... shhh now.
MsToast155 5 months ago
you fucked up dog i hate that bitch
guitatac 5 months ago
snap out of it australia, you are being f22ked..who do you think is getting your tax..the riches people on earth with the biggest houses and jets and the biggest carbon foot print..al gore rockafellas rothschilds royals un cfr eu bilderberge group...wake up in our life time we will see the n w o if we dont stop it..for us our kids and our grand kids sake..pls pls pls wake up
guitatac 5 months ago
@guitatac yes wake up to the fact that our Government spends $Billions of tax dollars on infrastructure, education, welfare, national security.... but no of course it ALL goes to the wealthy people... you know the ones we are trying to tax.
The polluters will pay for their pollution. That is what our grandchildren need. Otherwise our grandchildren will pay for OUR faults and the WEALTHY CORPORATIONS faults.
beamla 5 months ago
@beamla go spill your bullshit propaganda to some one els you,ve got blinders on to the world.....an go suck al gore off.....your well dumbed down ......sorry for being harsh but i only have time for people trying to wake up.not pro al gore pro gillard ...bullshit
guitatac 5 months ago
@guitatac Would Al Gore really let me do that? lol. Peace.
beamla 5 months ago
@beamla if you pay him, he would do anything......lol
guitatac 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
snap out of it australia, you are being f22ked..who do you think is getting your tax..the riches people on earth with the biggest houses and jets and the biggest carbon foot print..al gore rockafellas rothschilds royals un cfr eu bilderberge group...wake up in our life time we will see the n w o if we dont stop it..for us our kids and our grand kids sake..pls pls pls wake up
guitatac 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Federal Treasury analysis shows the Opposition's direct action climate change policy would cost twice as much as a carbon tax for the same reduction in emissions.
Jeansieguy 6 months ago
Try my channel for 2011 real climate science conference,It's called 6th International conference on climate change held in The US.Scroll down the uploads column,they are in no particular order however the Q&A videos should be watched after the others and do read my description of the video.Enjoy
2wheels88 6 months ago
there will be no gst under a howard goverment.... but there was. we got over it and ironically voted for howard again at the next election. the carbon tax isnt the end of the world
jonasboi83 6 months ago
On 7/28/11, it was revealed that the scientist behind the polar-bears-are-in-trouble research is being investigated for “scientific misconduct”. Then, a new study of NASA data revealed that the earth is actually allowing more heat to escape the planet than previously thought by the climate change community. During a speech at the Aspen Institute in Colorado, Al Gore launched into a vulgar tirade while accusing skeptics of media manipulation. (Read United Nations Agenda 21)
vechorik 7 months ago in playlist New World Order
All their lies!!
Gillard (Before the Election)
"There will be no Carbon Tax under the government I lead.
Swan(Before the Election):
" Certainly what we have rejected is this hysterical allegation, some how we are moving towards a Carbon Tax from the LIberal and their advertising"
theonetellingit 7 months ago
Wong(Before the Election):
A carbon tax is a less efficient way in the Australian Government's view of dealing
with this issue.
Unfortunately a carbon tax is not the silver bullet some people would think.
Know that you can't have any environmental certainty with a carbon tax.
theonetellingit 7 months ago
Latest Nielsen Poll
The latest Nielsen Poll of 1400 people is showing? 61% of the population in favour of the coalition. They have a
Poll regarding carbon price but they have not been doing Polls on the Carbon Tax for obvious reasons.
theonetellingit 7 months ago
Exclusive polling by JWS Research in Ms Gillard's electorate of Lalor in Victoria shows Labor's primary vote has
plunged 18.3 percentage? points to 46 per cent since the last election.
theonetellingit 7 months ago
Almost 100,000 votes were cast by more than 25,000 people across four polls in News Limited's "Carbon Tax
Plebiscite", with 87.1 per cent saying they planned to change their vote at the next election in light of the tax.
theonetellingit 7 months ago
@MrVerily - Also in terms of the redistribution of income, Garnaut's indepth review on the scheme begs to differ. Also the ad-hominems could be done without. Don't paint me as sime sort of hardcore labour supporter seeing as you have no idea where my political leanings are. For the record I was against the cap-and-trade scheme but believe the Carbon Tax is the best way deal with climate change. If you can suggest otherwise....
carrotxdawg 7 months ago
@carrotxdawg jesus christ,.. shouldn't you be studying?
13abie 7 months ago
@carrotxdawg
Professor Václav Klaus who recently spoke at the National Press Club spent fifteen years working on economic computer models similar to the one Prof. Garnaut used. He is convinced that this type of economic model used to create the Carbon Tax is completely flawed and the Tax will do nothing but damage our economy.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@MrVerily - also there is nothing wrong with debt as long as it's sustainable. Most debt that would occur from your given scenario would actually be private debt, which is most of the time financiable because Australia has a really good credit history. If you want more examples of a 'green' economy , see German's economy.
carrotxdawg 7 months ago
@carrotxdawg
No, the debt would have to be public, because like I have already said, it is all just airy fairy nonsense.
Publicly Germany has closed down their Nuclear Power Plants with the view to replacing them with renewables.
What they have actually done was go back to coal, like what we have.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@MrVerily - first of all industries have been shut down in the past and it hasn't been damaging. deregulation of 1980s, especially, saw a change in our resource allocation, where a whole heap of ineffiecient bussinesses were forced to shut down, but this made the Australian economy incredibly efficient. Going by your premise of an 'airy fairy' world, power stations would have to innovate with renewable energy or close down, where government would have to subsidise, but not to a damaging extent.
carrotxdawg 7 months ago
@carrotxdawg
The industries which have been shut down have not been base load power stations.
Ii is complete fantasy thinking we can shut down our coal power stations and replace them with solar and wind ones.
This will never happen.
Wind cannot provide base load power. Solar can, but you are looking at building a power plant the size of Tasmania to be able to provide enough power to run our state on a cold winters night.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@MrVerily - she's a pretty a credited economist. and wrong. her argument (if you bothered reading) is the economists theory on the price effect. that at a certain price demand falls because people don't can't afford it. as a result industries are forced to become more efficient if they want to keep profit margins. this is what the carbon tax would effectively do. it won't obliterate the use of carbon, but it will force industries to innovate and churn out less carbon.
carrotxdawg 7 months ago
All their LIes!!!
Gillard (Before the Election)
"There will be no Carbon Tax under the government I lead.
Swan(Before the Election):
" Certainly what we have rejected is this hysterical allegation, some how we are moving towards a Carbon Tax from the LIberal and their advertising"
MrVerily 7 months ago
@MrVerily Conspiracy theorist twat.
beamla 7 months ago
@beamla
I don't know how publishing these Politicians Lies could be seen as a conspiracy.
Everybody knows what lying scum bags they are already, I don't have to tell anyone that.
However I think we all have an obligation to continually hold these people and their lying scum mates like you to account.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@MrVerily yes hold account through evidence... through logic... through power analysis... not through simplistic gossip.
beamla 5 months ago
@beamla
The Tax free threshold is currently $6000.
Most of these people have a reasonable amount in Tax deductions so it is reasonable to say that most of them currently pay very little Tax if any on their few hundred bucks each a week.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@MrVerily Those who pay no tax due to not earning enough will have their incomes boosted, everyone else up to a reasonable income will pay less tax. simple. done. the sky does not fall in.
beamla 5 months ago
Wong(Before the Election):
A carbon tax is a less efficient way in the Australian Government's view of dealing
with this issue.
Unfortunately a carbon tax is not the silver bullet some people would think.
Know that you can't have any environmental certainty with a carbon tax.
MrVerily 7 months ago
google: "Joke's on us if we don't read the fine print on carbon tax" "Jessica Irvine" and "smh"
jessica irvine's got it right. as an economics student, this just annoys me
carrotxdawg 7 months ago
@carrotxdawg aha. take not @MrVerily.
beamla 7 months ago
@carrotxdawg
The poor, the working class, the 25% of coal miners who will loose their jobs are all in serious trouble, infact we all are.
It is becoming clear for everyone to see this is a financial cancer; as businesses are already starting to charge their customers more in anticipation of the Tax and it isn't even Law yet.
Lets also not forget that these people are completely dishonest and can't be trusted, no one can deny this. Just like you and your mates, they are lying scum.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@MrVerily You clearly don't understand economics.... Australian Govts of all persuasions survive on the back of the business class and low unemployment. They are not going to willingly cause mass economic problems. The carbon tax is actually quite a weak policy, it's ridiculous that you think it's a harsh policy. It's piss weak, the economy will deal easily with it.
beamla 5 months ago
@carrotxdawg
Idiots like Irvine who have never been in business do not understand the way business people think. Because this is not a simple Tax like the GST; businesses are going to overcharge to try and compensate for the unknown cost in transport and energy associated with the products and services they are selling. This will snowball and create inflation like we have never seen. It is an economy destroyer.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@carrotxdawg
Yuppie public servants who live in Canberra and earn 50K plus for doing nothing of value will receive $1800 each, thank you very much to her majesty.
They will no longer pay the 15% on the money they earn between $6000 and $18000.
The fact is the poor and the working class won't be faced with an extra $515, what is far more likely according to the more conservative estimates is a little over $2000, just to start.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@carrotxdawg
Her majesty evil queen Julia proposes to give them back $300 to cope with the financial tsunami of the Carbon Tax. The problem is even with Labors ridiculous prediction of $515 each, these people will be left with less money on an already very tight budget.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@carrotxdawg
Her second argument talks about the gracious Queen Julia, her majesty giving money back to the working poor to cope with her Tax.
Just so you know there are large numbers of working poor and small business people in the early stages of their business that currently don't pay any Tax on their couple of hundred bucks a week.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@carrotxdawg
Even in the airy fairy world of having wind turbines and solar power systems providing all our base load power, we would still have to close down our existing power stations. This will cost enormous amounts of money, which we don't have.
We would have to borrow more money than we earn to do this.
We would make our future generations a slave to Government debt.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@carrotxdawg Jessica Irvine is completely dishonest, just like her lying scum bag Labor mates.
She has two main parts to her argument, firstly that by putting a price on carbon we will stop using it.
Like the air we breath we have no choice but to use it unless we completely destroy our economy.
MrVerily 7 months ago
Reading computer links, computer modeling
Hearing lectures from paid non qualified so called weather experts who have never had their head out a window into the real world of climate over the past 30 years is the fodder for fools.
jazzysnaps 7 months ago
@jazzysnaps
Dr Latif from the Intergovernmental Climate Change Panel{ICCP} latest research 2011 suggest the earth is moving into a cooling cycle and it will remain that way for 20 years. This is consistent with the particularly cold winters the earth is experiencing now.
Dr Latif is from the ICCP who the Labor Government uses as its main scientific justification behind the massive new Tax, has developed a new way of measuring Ocean Temperatures.
MrVerily 7 months ago
@MrVerily Thanks for that . i will read up on it ,makes more sense than Flannery/Garnought rubbish being fed to us, and more in line with what i believe true, it is complex to measure ocean temps as there can be variations + -
1 to 4 degrees over short distances, my physical readings taken last month east coast Sydney / Cairns show Cairns down 3d and Sydney up 3 d very strange this time of year, my log records go back 30 years and show changes in sea temps up to - 7 drop in 1 day
jazzysnaps 7 months ago
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A new study in the peer-reviewed science journal "Remote Sensing" has found that United Nations computer models may be incorrect in overstating the amount of global warming that will occur in the future. James M. Taylor says it would be wise for the media, elected officials and climate scientists to recognize the “huge discrepancy” between global warming predictors and NASA’s satellite data.
vechorik 7 months ago
All this Loony Government has done is divided a Nation , 80% dont want either the tax or the pathetic excuse as a federal Government , read out lips Labour WE DONT WANT YOU , Australia wants a new election , this time a real election without deceit.
We were lied to and we are really angry.
jazzysnaps 7 months ago
@jazzysnaps better than liberals who wanted to do nothing, but sit on their butts, at least Labor is trying to do something.
mehanna 7 months ago
@mehanna
Yeah, Labor wants to do something alright, destroy our entire economy!
MrVerily 7 months ago
@mehanna Meh, I haven't earned enough and am still within the tax-free threshold but I agree with you on one thing. I'd rather have Labor with Gillard as the president than have to deal with Tony Abbott.
waverider201 4 months ago
@mehanna On the contrary they want to get into power to fix all the fuckups from ALP
breadbaker226 4 months ago
@jazzysnaps - and how's that been working for you?
Tony Abbott lies all the time - does that mean we can get a new Opposition leader?
Most voters don't want Abbott as the Liberal leader either - does that mean you support a new Liberal leader as well?
And how did you come to 80%? Post a link - I'd be very interested in seeing it - unless you are lying of course.
phonytonyabbott 7 months ago
And by the frign way, were a so called democracy not a dictatorship, we don't want it, yet were getting it, so we are in fact, technically a dictatorship. So there we have it...So what do we do now? We've fought dictatoships before!? So why isnt anyone doing something radical, like calling on the Queen to sack her? Or riots in the streets?? WTFs' going on, our ancestors would be ashamed of ALL of us right now!!!
therealshlong 7 months ago
Carbon tax is a scam, a protection racket, corruption at the highest level.
david222444 7 months ago
You all need to go heartlandDOTorg it is the 6th international conference on climate change and most of the scientist's agree that ........ well watch the video section for yourself.every year scientist's FOR climate change are invited but few show up,the first video is FOR and the rest mainly against with real evidence of what's going on.heartlandDOTorg click on the tab 6th international conference on climate change and go through the video's of the event,the science is not settled!!!
2wheels88 7 months ago
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Go to the SOS-NEWS website and read the article called- Global Warming Scam is DEAD ! ,Speaking were the world’s foremost climate scientists. They discussed on the latest evidence in the field of climatology and explained the most recent peer reviewed scientific discoveries. And one thing from their talks is crystal clear: when it comes to the battle of ideas, the apocalyptic man-made global warming scam is DEAD. 6th International Conference On Climate Change Calls Out Bob Brown as a Fraud
2wheels88 7 months ago
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humans account for 4% of co2 emissions the rest is natural,the sun is causing this "global warming"
what the tree huggers wont tell you is that every other planet in the solar system is warming so how are suv's and coal fired power staions causing this?!?
Wake up hippies!! if they get this tax through it will only go up & up!!.
it has already ruined NZ! dont let them fool you!!
pheonixrising789 7 months ago
What does being a Muslim have to do with the Carbon Tax?? Of course the entire panel had to address the question - they'd be acused of racism if they didn't!!
lukeyboy123able 7 months ago
Bobby Brown's in the background loading the gun!!
lukeyboy123able 7 months ago
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DhrTressie 7 months ago
AUSTRALIA JUST BROUGHT IN CARBON TAX $23/TON INCREASED 2.5% EVERY YEAR UNTIL 2015/2016!!! AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD INCREASE $10/WEEK!!! INFLATION INCREASE 1%!!! TAX UP 2.5%-4%!!!! BIGGEST PROPAGANDA THEFT IN HISTORY!!!!
windofthegods 8 months ago
@windofthegods AND THE CARBON PRICE IS AWESOME! LESS POLLUTION! LESS WHINING!
beamla 8 months ago
CARBON TAX FTW!
funkyironman69 8 months ago 2
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this is what happens when a woman and a fag runs the country
lehong1963 8 months ago
this is what happens when a woman and a puff runs the country
lehong1963 8 months ago
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MCBragi 8 months ago
Remember saying "one day they will tax us for the air we breath" as a joke..Yet here we are....
therealshlong 8 months ago
@therealshlong Tax happens. Yay, life and society goes on.
beamla 8 months ago
NBN ENOUGH SAID!
cubandl 8 months ago
@adnt08 Other planets don't have atmospheres exactly like ours- that is why its freezing cold on the moon. Ours is traps heat. The Earth is warming and the only reasonable explanation is through the excess green house gases that have built up from human burning of fossil fuels.
beamla 8 months ago
gretel killeen... shutup and leave the talking to the people with brains
alsmofo 8 months ago 2
@alsmofo agreed. all I heard from Killeen was "blah blah whinge".
beamla 8 months ago
@adnt08 Reason is stopping your slippery slope argument. Oxygen is not a greenhouse gas. To suggest that 7 Billion people and what they consume have no effect on the Earth is naive. Don't tell me about UN conspiracy theories. Why am I bothering?
beamla 9 months ago
Schools are for educating children! -- not brainwashing!
doomedanddisgusting 9 months ago
Gretel Killeen brought nothing to this debate. I actually enjoyed the Piers Akerman vs Bill Shorten argument.
beamla 9 months ago
CARBON TAX = REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH
REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH = SOCIALISM
MegaFrogzor 10 months ago
@MegaFrogzor redistribution of wealth = socialism? What do you call public education then? Money is taxed from personal incomes (with the wealthy paying higher rates) and then spent on services. That is a form of wealth redistribution. You are a fool.
beamla 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The science is settled on carbon polution,Please watch this - Lord Christopher Monckton Speaking in St. Paul just copy and paste it in search box.
2wheels88 10 months ago
Gretel Killeen opens her mouth and a whole bunch of nothing comes out. She'd make a great politician.
GrateGodAlmighty 10 months ago
there is an alternative to the carbon tax that will reduce emissions, create tens of thousands of long term jobs and reduce electricity bills to $8 per week for the average Aussie household. watch?v=qImNRuV4G0Q
uknowispeaksense 11 months ago
rofl wow gretel killeen talking about something other than the "house"... shambles :P
Treq10Cule 11 months ago
I understand that people that come to Australia hold a certain set of values. But it is when these values conflict with Australia's values that a problem arises.
nurone11 11 months ago 3
@nurone11 That's the problem, Islam has Three Dimensions: Religious Dimension = no problem, But when it has a Social Dimension and a Political Dimension, that we have a problem of values that are incompatible with Australia Values and Dimensions!
mehanna 11 months ago
@nurone11 ...... Correct!!!!
LABORISTOXIC 10 months ago
This is such a rediculous debate! The precedence is being established to tax and control every aspect of human life...
CFC's, lead-fuel. and immortal plastic bags are all history because of proper legislation and consumer pressure. This price on carbon has nothing to do with reducing climate change. Wake up Aussie we do not need this carbon tax!
NowForTruth 11 months ago 5
@NowForTruth Wow you really hit that one on the head. CFCs and lead fuel are gone because of consumer pressure? No they're gone because GOVERNMENTS took action against those problems. A carbon tax is the most economically efficient way to restructure the economy. A carbon price is a signal to the free market to invest in renewables... as a consumer you will be compensated for the price rises by the govt (from the tax revenue raised).
beamla 9 months ago
@beamla yeh look I fully agree in principle. I just do not wish to fund a global government that has any authority over my life-style. And if you do not know that is what it is all about then you simply havnt looked into it. I wish you would because you seem intelligent!
NowForTruth 9 months ago
@NowForTruth I know the New World Order theories that you're speaking about. Personally, all the evidence I've seen is baseless (I'm being polite). Usually bits of soundbites with a politician using the phrase "new world order" obviously not in the context of an oppressive world government. Which begs the question, if this is such a secret plan for global governance then why would they be so careless to give it away in soundbites? The theory is imported from the US.
beamla 9 months ago
@beamla no I don't think you do know. Thanks for being polite we can at least be civil. Could it be possible to open a dialogue and a debate that does not involve each side dismissing the other as co-opted fools? My concerns are genuine and I am not a paranoid. I am not being deliberately difficult. After thousands of hours of research I turned from a greenie into a conservative liberal. I am 35. I was planting trees and removing bitou bush when I was 11... What if I am right about this?
NowForTruth 9 months ago
@NowForTruth I can accept that it is possible (just as many things are possible). However, the evidence is lacking. Secondly, it depends what a person's idea of New World Order is. We have already had a new world order since WW2. The world order is not fixed in time, it is rapidly changing with the rise of India and China. It will change again. The idea of a small group controlling world affairs honestly does not make any sense when you consider the complexity of world events. No evidence...
beamla 9 months ago
@beamla Forget about the NWO for a minute friend; just think about this new tax. The Companies already set up to trade in carbon, who owns them or who has large share portions in them, E.G Al Gore and the like. Or the U.N advocate for this tax for 30 years trying to push this through the U.N then invested in a Chinese car Company to flood the U.S with extreme polluting Chinese cars, what's this about? It's about money and control, it's a conspiracy friend, and it’s certainly not a theory!
therealshlong 8 months ago
@therealshlong It's a theory. It's also a lame attempt at demonising Al Gore all cos he made some movie. Industries are profit driven and the ones who stand to lose out from less fossil fuel use are the loudest and the most well funded. Al Gore versus the fossil fuel industry doesn't compute. (Oh no but that's what they want you to think!). Theory. It's amazing that you can believe that holed theory, but apparently find global warming less convincing.
beamla 8 months ago
@beamla So fact is now Theory? Mmm, when did that happen? I wasnt inform about this...By the way the Corporates do not lose out of this deal, they simply pass on the costs to the consumer.
therealshlong 8 months ago
@therealshlong And the top 1000 emitting businesses that can innovate and reduce emissions will reduce their carbon tax burden. It's simple- there is a clear incentive for them to innovate. Over time emissions get reduced at the lowest market cost through an Emissions Trading Scheme. The consumers are compensated for price rises. What is so hard to understand?
beamla 8 months ago
@beamla It's cheaper to send it O/S, easier to just pass the cost onto the consumer. Large Companies dont pay for 1 cent of any government tax or levies, they pass it straight on to us, we have to buy fuel, bread, etc so why would they obsorb the cost themselves? Nothing wrong in reducing pollution generally, it's the barking up the wrong tree and knowing it scenario i don't like, it's about lining the elites pockets, the makers of this entire scheme do not give a shit about the $enviroment$
therealshlong 8 months ago
@therealshlong ... and the businesses that can reduce costs/prices will increase their business profits. Capitalism is about lining elites pockets. It is ridiculous that you believe only climate change or carbon pricing is doing that. This is how our economy works.
beamla 8 months ago
@therealshlong It's a circular argument as well. Answer to send it O/S = free permits and compensation to prevent that. Costs for households = compensation. And the rest that I've said still applies businesses will reduce emissions.
beamla 8 months ago
@beamla Cost for households = how much of those tax $ leave this country. As a tax payer I’m compensating myself, the value of how much every tax $ leaving this country is whats going to come out of my pocket. Grade 2 math. The simple fact is a Company will produce O/S if it's more cost effective, compensation or not, is how business works. The only thing circular about this entire debacle is the fact i keep seeing labour in power every 10 or so frign years giving everone the shits again!
therealshlong 8 months ago
@therealshlong The business will obviously not get the compensation if they move overseas... and in case you haven't noticed we've already lost huge amounts of industry overseas without a carbon price. Yes as a tax payer you are compensating yourself just like everyone else. END RESULT of all this = $20-$30 MARKET PRICE for the top businesses that create carbon emissions and aren't trade exposed. It is likely trade exposed businesses won't end up paying anything (and therefore staying).
beamla 8 months ago
@beamla No, they won't BECAUSE THEY DONT NEED TO BE BECAUSE THERE IS NO TAX THERE! And no they won't pay anything! THEY WILL PASS THE COSTS ON TO THE CONSUMER! Look, anyone for this tax is either very very wealthy and has already invested in the Carbon companies, or they are brainwashed into believing its man that's caused the problem when it's actually solar activity, ever watched the doco's about millions of years ago climate chance caused this or that! You reckon they had industry back then?
therealshlong 8 months ago
@therealshlong But if they are getting compensated then there is no real difference between Australia and country x. This makes perfect sense. Businesses will reduce emissions this is basic economics- as all the economists are saying. I suspect you just have something against Labor Govts and this has little to do with the sound policy itself.
beamla 8 months ago
@beamla Your not understanding, compensation will come from myself, [the tax payer] outgoing money is the difference i'll be paying plus the extra large Companies will put on their products, moreover do you really believe the government will continue compensating? No. Do some research on the people who originally came up with this idea, Rothchilds, Al Gore, Maurice Strong, bilderburg group, the list goes on! Wake up friend, were being scammed! Unless of course your an investor in Carbon Co's ;-)
therealshlong 8 months ago
@therealshlong You have an interest in ignoring any other logical arguments because you believe this Rothchild, Gore blah... It wouldn't matter how logical my argument is you are obsessed with a cute sounding conspiracy theory without evidence that helps you make sense of the world. The compensation comes from the tax payer's being the big polluters.... where do you think Tony Abbott's direct action tax comes from? Paying big polluters money from general revenue (your personal income tax).Think!
beamla 8 months ago
@beamla Firstly someone trying to legally steal from you is not cute, this is not just about the $ here, it's the power these laws wield over the community and business. Definition of a conspiracy: An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act. Oh, then you legislate it, then it's legal. Again, Not cute! ...
You’re ignoring the exported funds again, and of course any tax comes out of the tax payers pocket, that's what i've been trying to get through your head!
therealshlong 7 months ago
@beamla So you vote green, want gay marriage, want to de populate the world, drive a large 4x4, you take more flights on aircraft in a year than most of us do in a lifetime, live in the city, go to restaurants, you drive down to the peninsula on weekends and want that damb tree blocking your bay view cut down type of guy right. I've seen too many like you in my time; the smell of hypocrisy is surely reaching the heavens!!
Maybe your just a, always vote Labour kind of guy??
therealshlong 7 months ago
@therealshlong No I'm a "thinks about the situation" kind of guy. Um how can you accuse me of hypocrisy when you don't even know me?
beamla 7 months ago
@beamla Who knows, there is 3 types here, loaded hypocrit, Labour voter who would still vote even if they were shooting people in the street or one brainwashed by media. Anyway, looks like were all gonna cop it up the ass yet again. I'm attending a meeting to discuss how much EXTRA it's going to cost the building industry. Either the cost gets passed on or we obsorb it, to stay competative looks most will be letting someone go..most industries will be talking the same.
therealshlong 7 months ago
@therealshlong For what it's worth I hope you and the industry come out of this OK, and if I were in your situation I would be worried too. We can't do without builders and the construction industry. It sucks when construction slows down like it did after the GFC when big projects couldn't get funding or just didn't go ahead. I really do care about our country and want us to have a high tech energy, construction and manufacturing sector in 20-30 years. I can see this plan doing that.
beamla 7 months ago
@beamla With less workers and cheaper O/S products. This plan will see China do very well indeed, far as AU goes, mining’s the only thing keeping our pants up, rest of us are doing it hard. Were about to see the U.S default, their hanging on for dear life puppertering the opec countries so they don't start using gold or SDRs instead of the U.S dollar. This is the last thing we need, if they want control and money how’s about helping us all to create wealth first, then we may have some to give!
therealshlong 7 months ago
@therealshlong We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world... our economy and the goods we consume is far larger than 15, 30, 50 years ago. We have 5% unemployment... Compare that to the rest of the world and it puts it in perspective. Yes mining is important, but what about the other 92% non mining part of our economy? I think (know) people are better off materially but we're just unhappy because we spend more time working and buying shit... and not actually living.
beamla 7 months ago
@beamla I had earnt over 100k combined income and were still not able to afford holidays?? Ave mortgage, few kids. There seemed to always be someone with their hand out, i say oh look, i have 5k, then the tax man says, "thanks" or the rates and 2 rego's, again "thanks" Compare the cost of living to other countries, the U.S is now paying .85c per litre of fuel and their calling for revalution! The only money we spend is the banks, the rest goes to those with their hand outs. That aint wealth!
therealshlong 7 months ago
@therealshlong 50 years ago most people couldn't afford to go on holidays... but it depends what you mean. A weekend away? Taxes pay for the things that we need for the society to keep ticking over... they pay for the things that indirectly keep you in business. That is the private sector (for profit) cannot run without the government building and maintaining all our roads, public transport, schools, courts/police and hospitals. Yeah bills and tax suck and working in general sucks.
beamla 7 months ago