Bill Maher's pseudoscience 2of2

[favianutube]

This video is pretty disinguous. From what i've seen of Bill Maher, he attacks big pharma, he doesn't attack science itself. There's a HUGE difference between attacking the politics of the pharma industry and the pharm/insurance industrial complex and attacking the science itself.

[mphello]

I just made a mental connection:

those who bash Western medicine - whose faults like in bureaucracies and injustices in wealth distribution, not in the science itself - are the same lunatics who bash the proven fact of anthropogenic global warming (AGW), because they think it's too "Western".

[mphello]

Anthropogenic global warming (AGW) has been proven more thorougly than general relativity (strong evidence), string theory (no experimental evidence whatsoever), Bigfoot (medium evidence), alien visitations (strong evidence), astrology (total bullshit), homeopathy (total bullshit), or that no god exists (strong evidence) - and I think atheists need to get FAR more politically aggressive.

[SovereignStatesman]

@mphello

Bull-fucking shit, AGW it has NOT been proven, there is NO conclusive evidence.

As for the rest, no one's asking to TAX relativity, stupid.

[mphello]

I have zero opinion about vaccines (in spite of my small degree in Biotech - you'd think I'd have an opinion one way or the other about it!). I DO HATE Western-medicine-bashing, as much as I hate conservaturds and those who bash socialists, communists, atheists. Bill Maher is great on animal rights, global warming, atheism, but I hate his show, because I hate ALL talk shows.

[SovereignStatesman]

@mphello

Talk-shows, as a rule, are either shock-jocks, or else they don't get any ratings. Whether Limbaugh or Maher, they say things and cry wolf just to piss people off and get them to tune in; they don't care about being truth, that's BORING. They want to sell advertising, that's IT.

[mphello]

@SovereignStatesman True. Now drill that fact into the shitheads who actually believe what these shit/shock jocks say, and actually base decisions (e.g. VOTING) on what these fucked-up beliefs.

I'll gladly make a ton of money with a radio station that openly says that pro-animal rights vegans are the only true patriotic americans and that we should shut down breeding facilities and factory farms. I don't care how controversial my views are.

[SovereignStatesman]

@mphello

On the web that's called TROLLING.

[mphello]

@SovereignStatesman You obviously don't give a shit about the truth (AGW is proven fact: read the fucking IPCC papers). You're armchair arrogant ignorance is stunning. Obviously, you've never done a day of hard work in your life to proclaim such assinine ideas.

So, I don't have to give a shit whether YOU think what anyone does is trolling.

[Devils1stBorn]

It's amazing how much effort goes behind attacking people instead of investing their time on the real issue. The foods that are permitted to occupy our supermarket shelves is just shit wrapped in a bow. Monkeys have a hard time distinguishing priorities. Don't know what's worse, listening to these people go on a rant or watching paint dry. I love science, but like most people with some airwaves to share...they waste them.

[12107170]

I want to like Bill Maher but, he's just too I don't know yah know?

[Shalek]

Good they should call him out on his bullshit. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

[smeogismyname]

Actually, from what I understood from Bill Maher, his rant specifically targeted antidepressants and indigestion tablets. Targeting the "American diseases", mostly caused by horrible food and obesity.

[brandon1ucas]

I'm waiting for someone like Skeptics Guide to the Universe to criticize Maher's religious-like defense of global warming. He's my hero in many ways, but he can be a real nut...

[DaDoctaBoom]

The biggest problem with Bill Maher's anti-medicinal claims is that they have a base to stand on. Yes, he generalizes and exaggerates the problem. Yes, Western Medicine is nigh-miraculous in its success. But, the Specifically American Pharmaceutical Industry is corrupt as every other major Industry in America at the CEO levels. What Bill doesn't get, however, is that Doctors prescribing still take the Hippocratic Oath. But it doesn't change the fact that Drugs are Advertised before fully tested.

[buffboynick]

Bill Maher = brainless loon

[notinmyname2050]

New Rule: If you're going to take the word of a Playboy bunny over that of all the PhDs currently working in modern medicine, you don't get to call yourself a RATIONALIST!!

[radutrc1]

plus he's funny :)))

[radutrc1]

Well ppl Bill's view has more sens. :) We can now send missiles miles away and target a window of a small hut, and send ppl into space, and satellites, invented Viagra :)), genetically modified food, BUT we let cancer among that last things. But we have a lot a pills that can make you live WITH cancer, as long as you take them.

Isn;t that a gold mine?

PS: please excuse my english, but i'm sure anyone understand :)

[Kretain]

I just love it when people sit around and talk about "celebs" like this.

take a look at what he is actually saying.

Hes not a germ denier, what he is saying is "we need to look at the vaccines more" nothing else.

there ARE alot of bad things in those vaccines, they do the trick usually tho.

Cannabis, has shown to fight cancer, it's illegal almost everywhere as a cancer med, wich is one of the things Bill mentions.

[vadimcream]

I think amongst the worst of his rhetoric is the assertion that west-med is in some kind of conspiracy to keep the people of the world sick. Perhaps there is a vague kernel of truth tucked inside that idea, but it's a very destructive exageration IMHO + it feeds into the west-med paranoia that is rampant these days. And the worst thing about it is that he gives new age medical BS a degree of credibility by saying this stuff. Many take his word on things w/o doing their own research.

[Kretain]

@vadimcream Well, thats what usually happens when someone is on TV -.-

Just look at Bill (Orly?) O'Rielly, he spends each second hes on the air, spouting ignorance, but people still follow his lead.

Being anti or pro-celeb is what you should focus on, not the random crap they say.

Usually, they have just a big a clue as you do.

[vadimcream]

@Kretain

I don't see the value of being anti or pro celeb. You take statements on a case by case basis and the validity of a claim has nothing to do with whether or not they're famous... Like it or not Maher is perceived by many as an educated voice of reason, and for many who don't investigate they will take him on his word and swallow new age med quackery more easily. He's no Jenny McCarthy, but there's no doubt these irresponsible comments do far more harm than good.

[Kretain]

@vadimcream Well usually, when on youtube and watching clips like these, you get either "THIS MAN IS A GOD" or "FUCK THIS FUCKING FUCKER AND HIS FUCKING FUCK".

I just find it amusing.

[vadimcream]

@Kretain

Also I'd be less critical of Maher if he only made these statements off-handedly but the fact is that when he was publicly challenged on these matters he had the chance to get it right but defended his stance once again with a series of poorly researched "facts" and assertions that have been shown to be bogus.

Also, I don't get your reluctance to call him on his BS because of the whole celeb thing; I could easily deflate your defense of him in your first comment on the same basis.

[Kretain]

@vadimcream I don't call him on his BS because I don't really care, what he sais at any time or place, has little to no bearing on me or my life.

If he finds a plate of sallad to be of more medical worth then anti-biotics, then good for him.

I'll still use the lovely pills that make me better.

[vadimcream]

@Kretain

Well that's cool if you could care less but we do and it's not a petty interest. The people in this podcast, and myself for that matter, are just concerned with the EFFECTS of Bill's statements and the careless spread of disinfo. It's not born out of gossipy-celebrity worship like you're intimating, it's not about "oooh can you believe what this famous person did?".

BM is not just any other celeb, he's a quasi-journalist, and therefore has an obligation to get this shit right.

[Kretain]

@vadimcream He's a talkshow host..

I just love how celebs in america get special status n increased potency with whatever they say.

He's not a journalist by any stretch of the imagination, he's a gloryfied housewife..

He gets paid to talk to people about things that are 'hot' and add a comedic twist to it.

He's not there to create information, nor to spread it.

His job is "make people forget that they hate their jobs for 1 hour per week", thats it.

Now, if you want to read more into that, hf.

[ThePhantomBlacksmith]

hhmm, well...a lot of slander. I haven't heard bill maher express any of these views. clips inserted to validate their claims would have given it more credibility.

[Uuuuurk]

@ThePhantomBlacksmith this is not slander, he is very open whit his belives about alt.med...

[Melthornal]

Western medicine has a lot of issues, and it has a lot of benefits. It is true that western medicine does very little in the form of preventative or therapeutic/holistic medicine. We have largely replaced holistic therapy with nutritionism, which isn't really helping anyone and in fact works to make people even more ignorant. However, we excel in trauma, (which saves a LOT of lives), and systematic diagnosis/treatment. Western medicine is good for a lot of reasons, but it does have flaws.

[Schulmania]

Thanks for this upload, i like bill maher and his show. But when he starts to talk about western medecine i always cringe.

[robfromvan]

The problem that Bill Maher has with vaccinations is not the vaccination itself but the other chemicals such as thimerosal with comes from mercury (which is poisonous) that they place inside the vaccine as a preservative.

[robfromvan]

You can take all the vaccinations you want, but if you eat junk food you will get sick anyway. But if you don't take any vaccinations & stick to a healthy diet the incidence of getting sick reduces drastically. Experiments on animals proves this. If you want further evidence try it on yourself. Be your own guinea pig. You'll know what I'm talking about if you try it on yourself. Vaccinations would be completely unnecessary if people could exercise self control over what they eat.

[robfromvan]

When you add refined white sugar, white flour, deep fried foods, alcohol, caffeine or petrochemicals health problems intensify. Eating foods raw & avoiding refined foods such as sugar & flour as well as deep fried foods & alcohol does reduce the probability of getting all the flus, colds & infections that people routinely take vaccinations for.

[UserNameForYeeTube]

@robfromvan

Because you get polio from eating white flour bread.

Because you get mumps from eating white sugar.

Because you get smallpox from ingesting caffeine.

Because you get measles from eating deep fried foods.

Oh wait. No you don't. Those are viral diseases. White sugar is not a strain the mumps virus.

I think it might just be that you're making shit up.

Oh well. Conduct a scientific study into your 'treatment', get it published in a peer-reviewed scientific magazine and we'll talk.

[robfromvan]

@UserNameForYeeTube, refined white flour & white sugar are processed with bleach and a variety of heavy chemicals & deep fried foods are laden with fried oils which contain carcinogens which undermine all of these "foods" nutritional value & so when eaten compromise your immune system making you more susceptible to any viruses, bacteria & any diseases which are occur from a bacterial or viral infection, this includes the common cold, flus, smallpox, measles, polio and many others.

[robfromvan]

@UserNameForYeeTube, refined white flour & white sugar are processed with bleach and a variety of heavy chemicals & deep fried foods are laden with fried oils which contain carcinogens which undermine all of these "foods" nutritional value & so when eaten compromise your immune system making you more susceptible to any viruses, bacteria & any diseases which are occur from a bacterial or viral infection, this includes the common cold, flus, smallpox, measles, polio and many others.

[robfromvan]

@UserNameForYeeTube also a diet high in fresh fruits & vegetables & devoid of artificially processed refined foods have the opposite effects. They help to boost your immune system & provide immunity to bacterial & viral infections & diseases resulting from these. Tests on animals prove this. Robert McCarrison did experiments on monkeys where he fed them their usual diet in cooked form & all the monkeys got diseases & died. Other tests on animals confirm refined food consumption cause illness.

[UserNameForYeeTube]

@robfromvan

Animal diets don't really compare to humans because animals are used to eating raw foods - they can't cook, now can they? This is why they get many diseases from the food they eat, worms of all kinds etc.

I'm not saying that white sugar, white flour etc. are *good*, I'm not, but I'm saying that your diet *alone* cannot prevent you from catching diseases, and your diet alonw doesn't necessarily mean you *will* catch VIRAL diseases (diabetes etc. are a different matter).

[robfromvan]

@UserNameForYeeTube Francis Pottenger did experiments where he fed cats uncooked meat & milk & another set of cats cooked meat & milk, the cats w/ the raw diet lived a healthy disease free life & cats w/ the cooked diet all succumbed to various illnesses & died. Paul Kouchakoff showed in the 1920's that white blood cells flock to the lower intestine when refined foods & cooked foods are eaten but when raw foods are eaten this doesn't occur. Physiologists previously thought this always happens

[robfromvan]

Bill Maher's views on both religion & western medicine are correct. There is a dentist namde Dr. Weston Price who did experiments on cats where he gave one group a raw food diet & the other the same food in cooked form. The cats who ate the cooked food developed diseases similar to those found in humans & eventually died. Those that ate the raw diet lived healthy long lives without illness.

[Nemesis000000]

He's not a germ theory denier.... at all. Or even against all vaccines.

[psycoelement]

Robikus i define medical quackery as any treatment that makes a claim to its effecasy WITHOUT peer reviewed scientific EVIDENCE,certain herbs,diet and meditation have had scientific peer reviewed studies done and the ones that have SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE i have no problem with at all. I am a skeptic and that definition means to me that i will ALWAYS be willing to change my beliefs ONLY if i find SCIENTIFIC PEER REVIEWED EVIDENCE.NOT superstition of wishful thinking

[jvaish]

@psycoelement So what you are saying is, if 1,000 people got sick with some disease only these 1,000 people got, and they were cured by alternative medicine then it wouldn't be valid until it was peer-reviewed. Good thinking there bro. I like how so called skeptics made up their own definition of science to mean done in a lab. Funny how these types have never actually been sick typically. Amazing naivete.

[psycoelement]

to all the people who go to the defense of natural medicine i say this, what would you do if you were diagnosed with CANCER. go for the western medicine or natural quackery. i bet 90% of you would not have the conviction of your irrational beliefs.Western medicine is not perfect but more lives have been saved in the last century than in a multiple of century's before, with "natural" treatments.

[Robikus]

What's wrong with doing both? I think you can draw a line between the alternative quackery vs alternative medicine and techniques. Herbs, meditation, and diet have been proven to have beneficial effects. I think it's important not to group all alternative methods under the label 'quackery'.

[St37One]

Bill Maher is not skeptical about Global Warming alarm, and does not seem to notice how the science has been misrepresented and corrupted on behalf of a political movement.

Bill maher does not deny the germ theory, but he does disagree with the HIV-AIDS hypothesis, along with many other reputable virologists.

What is it about Incurable diseases that attracts so much institutional corruption, propaganda, and hysteria?

Why has religion always tried to monopolize the charity industry?

[rememberedhills]

"Bill maher does not deny the germ theory"

Yes he does, to repeat

"we go by the Louis Pasteur theory, even though Louis Pasteur renounced it on his own deathbed and said that Beauchamp(s) was right*: it's not the invading germs, it's the terrain. It's not the mosquitoes, it's the swamp that they are breeding in" - Bill Maher

* Which is bullshit, he never.

[St37One]

@rememberedhills

That is a false dichotomy, since obviously it is both the nature of the germs themselves and their environmental conditions that are necessary for the disease to occur.

If you eliminate either one, then you eliminate the disease.

You could make a similar argument in the context of free speech and toxic memes. Mere exposure is not enough to cause chronic infection, and focusing on eliminating bad memes is a bad strategy.

[CCNezin1]

@rememberedhills "What I've read about what they think I'm saying is not what I've said. I'm not a germ theory denier. I believe vaccinations can work. Polio is a good example. Do I think in certain situations that inoculating Third World children against malaria or diphtheria, or whatever, is right? Of course. In a situation like that, the benefits outweigh costs. But to me living in Los Angeles? To get a flu shot? No." No, he doesn't deny the germ theory.

[AsSomedayItMayHappen]

@rememberedhills That's not a denial of germ theory. He's just discussing what the priorities of the medical profession ought to be.

[vadimcream]

@St37One

HiV/Aids denialism is not supported by reputable virologists. There are those who are treated as such inside their community, but when you look at the most "respected" voices among them you'll find they are in fact experts in distantly related fields. It's not much different than the way in which 9/11 truthers with basic degrees are touted as authorities on physics and the such. If you're interested, the user "Concordance" has some very well researched vids on the subject.

[St37One]

@vadimcream

You either can not think clearly, or you deliberately tried to change the subject.

My claim was that some reputable virologists are infact skeptical of the proposed causal link between HIV and AIDS, and you countered that with the notion that the "most respected" aids denialists are not virologists.

How does that qualify as a point worth raising?

[St37One]

@vadimcream

BTW

I have just now finished watching the "house of numbers" documentary on DVD.

I recomend that you watch it with an open mind. And I will look into concordances videos because after searching for some time, I have yet to come across intelligent and rational arguments to support the HIV/Aids hypothesis supported by anything other than "consensus"

[vadimcream]

@St37One

I will check out House of Numbers, but only because you were open enough to check out Con's vids, but you still have yet to check the ones I think are most important... In reference though to House of Numbers I have read up a bit on it and I know there were several scientists interviewed who felt they were misrepresented AND say they were interviewed under false pretenses.

Furthermore one subject interviewed within the doc is featured in one of Concordance's videos (cont)

[vadimcream]

@St37One

A video titled "What's the harm:Eliza Jane Scovill" in which he tells the story of the daughter of Christine Maggiore, a strong voice in the Aids denialist movement as well as an interview subject in the Numbers doc. Her daughter died at the age of 3 due to neglect of her HiV and Christine herself soon followed. I strongly suggest you watch this video.

Also watch:

"HIV AIDS Denialism:Answering the Perth Group's Arguments"

"Does HIV cause Aids" + "Intelligent design + Aids denialism"

[St37One]

@vadimcream

I have just seen two videos by "concordance"

one on the origin of aids, and the other on germ theory denialism.

neither of those videos present any arguments to rebut the basic

arguments put forth by those who doubt or deny that HIV causes AIDS.

So, i still have yet to find intelligent arguments to support the HIV-AIDS hypothesis, or to rebut the common challenges/obvious weaknesses.

[vadimcream]

@St37One

Oh and lastly I would recommend "30 Million Lives" parts 1 and 2. They address both the Perth group as well as the claims of the most significant figure in Aids denialism, Peter Duesberg.

In regards to Numbers, I will check it. I imagine it is in the same realm as a film like Loose Change, seems convincing at first glance but if you look at how the data is attained + scrutinized as well as the dubious creds of some of the "experts" one realizes that it's flim-flam.

[therrydicule]

...Well, it is controversial to give it to him but I think he deserve it for his position on diet, medical marijuana and anti-faith healing.

[Konban9vikar]

It seems to me these people have alot of trust in our medical system.

[twopinplugvision]

I have lot more trust in independent peer review than I do in a load of cranks and snake oil salesman selling their junk medicine that they know can't pass it. I cannot deny that.

[benens]

bill maher doesn't deny the germ theory. do your homework first.

[twopinplugvision]

"we go by the Louis Pasteur theory, even though Louis Pasteur renounced it on his own deathbed* and said that Beauchamp(s) was right: it's not the invading germs, it's the terrain. It's not the mosquitoes, it's the swamp that they are breeding in" - Bill Maher

* No he didn't

[nofishnochips]

Like everything in the world, there can be flaws in peer review, but its the very very best method we have for achieving scientific credibility. Hence not giving "equal time" in hospitals to people who think leeches cure cancer.

If you consistently fail it, like all alternative medicine always does, then its pseudoscience.

Why Maher, who does so much sterling work for liberal causes elsewhere, uses this debunked drivel to attack credible science is of eternal frustration. Shermer is so right

[jamesdc60]

Haha, oh lady you've got to stop... wow, how many times are these guys going to avoid quotes, context, and keep using "essentially"? lol well they may have grabbed the essentials for your argument but wow, missing the truth by a mile. I'd try to educate this video but with the view count... I don't think I need to bother.

[howlingwooolf]

Of course avoiding peer reviewed science like Maher does is absolutely fine.

[625vision]

@jamesdc60 To paraphrase/rip off Charlie Brooker:

"what is western medicine anyway? Only a rigorously-tested, peer-reviewed, continually evolving system of knowledge about the way our world works, built up over centuries - that's all. It's not a patch on mindless superstition, which has been around far longer, and is responsible for bringing us such exciting gems as alternative medicine, healing crystals, the tooth fairy and Bill Maher"

[jamesdc60]

625vision, peer review is usually a great thing, but even it is subject to critique. Medicine is peer reviewed, yet still has unexpected side effects, and even when it does work its target is often not the source of the problem. Let's also not forget that if something is "peer-reviewed" that doesn't keep it from being incorrect. Just because enough people of similar background agree on something, doesn't mean a damn thing if most of them are wrong. In example, centuries of harmful prescriptions.