Shooting Gallery 06 - High Country Sheep Hunting!

[Aussie038]

On the question of the animals not been able to use their natural senses – whenever we bag an animal it is because we have taken advantage of its inability to use its sense - no matter how close or far!!

[mussawirkhan]

wow friend nice i love it

[Lenangreal]

if they dont eat it theyre a couple of morons

[jeffberd]

All big game animals should be hunted on their terms, on their turf.

Get your ass up the mountain and see if you have what it takes to out smart them in the rocks. Have a few blown stalks, and the sense of anticipation that comes with knowing they could bust you at any second, then, if it all works out, you've deserved to harvest that animal....or you can sit back at a million yards, talk in a normal voice, walk around withough worry they can see you. If they did, they wouldn't bust anyways.

[botwtv]

Jeff, don't get discouraged, you seem to be making your point very clear. If I'm hearing you right, the main thrust of your argument is:

"The animals we chase after should given given the opportunity to at least use their god-given senses to avoid a hunter. Smell, sight and movement are all but taken away when firing rounds at "extreme long range".......if you aren't giving those animals a fair shot, it isn't ethical to kill them."

[jeffberd]

what on earth would make you think I'm discouraged?

[botwtv]

To my knowledge I don't think we've ever claimed "fair chase" on our show, just simply precision shooting. I've heard our show's Producer put it this way - there's shooters and there's hunters. Primarily what we're doing is shooting. We just happen to be offering precision shooting systems to both hunters and shooters.

[jeffberd]

It is obvious this isn't fair chase friend.

......and for money no less.

Using live animals as "targets" for precision shooting.......enjoy hell.

[botwtv]

I thought you might be discouraged because you said, "I don't imagine being able to get my point across to you through this medium." But you seem to be doing just fine. I didn't say this was about wolves, outfitters, or resident hunters. We're talking about the topic you started with: Hunting ethics.

[botwtv]

But as for the main thrust of your argument, I'm assuming you don't use scent blocker gear, a rifle, or a tree stand (which I respect). In fact I don't really know what you could use for a weapon besides your teeth or claws to be on the same terms as an animal. You still haven't qualified your standard of measurement when it comes to what the entire hunting community should accept as what's ethical.

[botwtv]

Consider this, with your argument even some animals are unethical in their hunting tactics. Looking at a pack of wolves and the extreme hunting tactics they use on an elk calf or a weakling in the herd. Sight, sense and sound have no bearing. It's simply over for their prey. However what sets humans apart from animals is ethics. Shouldn't what's ethical be based on a human hunter's ability to kill effectively and humanely?

[jeffberd]

This isn't about wolves, oufitters, resident hunters or ME, this is about you guys "pushing the boundaries"......showing sheep falling off cliffs in your show trailer.....and maintaining contempt for the animals you kill.

What you are doing is BAD FOR HUNTING........with all the ANTI hunting groups out there, this show is fuel for them.

[botwtv]

You are trying to define hunting ethics, so this is kind of about you. There's no external standard that you can point to, to say "That's hunting." It's like trying to say, "That's music" or "that's the right way to eat a sandwich." There are a number of ways to do these things and there are a number of standards by which people do them.

[botwtv]

You still have avoided all of the questions I've posed to you about what makes hunting ethical or unethical. We are harvesting animals for the same reason that close range hunters do: for the meat or for the trophy that they're seeking. I'm wondering if you're ready to think critically about these things or if you'd rather just vent because not everyone does it the same way you do. Thrill's are relative, and in SOME CASES, BUT NOT ALL so are ethics.

[jeffberd]

As I've stated earlier if it isn't Fair Chase its Unethical to kill that animal.

btw, I jump on a plane in a few hours.....gone for a month. I'll check back in then. Cheers, thanks for the discussion.

[jeffberd]

When you sit back at the range you brag about, it isn't really fair chase. The animals we chase after should given given the opportunity to at least use their god-given senses to avoid a hunter. Smell, sight and movement are all but taken away when firing rounds at "extreme long range".......if you aren't giving those animals a fair shot, it isn't ethical to kill them.

[jeffberd]

i don't have the time in my life to debate this wtih you. You are obviously well versed in your rhetoric, and I don't imagine being able to get my point across to you through this medium.

Put it this way, if an olympic level bow shooter told me he could accurately shoot at game and effectively kill at 100 yards or more, I'd have the same contempt for that person as I do you.

[jeffberd]

UNETHICAL is the only word that should be used to describe "Long Range Shooting" ....uhhem....I mean Hunting.

[botwtv]

Jeff,

We always appreciate feedback given by our viewers - both positive and negative. We want to be open to hearing and considering the many philosophies of ethics that hunters live by. It's these ethical codes that hold the hunter above the hunted. Please Jeff, flesh out your point further about what is unethical about precision shooting at any range? What makes a shot taken in a hunting situation ethical or unethical?

[jeffberd]

To me, ethical hunting begins and ends with respect for you quarry. "pushing the boundarys" and "breaking the boundarys" of long range shooting means you are stretching what is exceptable for a distance in which animals can be killed quickly and humanly. In my opinion, this is no boundary hunters should push in the first place. Work harder to get closer and have the balls to turn something down if the animal is going to fall and destroy any possibility of harvesting it's meat.

[jeffberd]

Anytime you start "pushing boundary's" you are willing to accept a few casualties along the way. Don't lie about that.

accepting a few wounded animals is accepting LESS RESPECT FOR YOUR QUARRY.

Start by explaining what you are after by pushing these boundaries??

Besides compensating for an obviously small manhood and lack of physical ability.

[botwtv]

Jeff,

Why are you attacking us rather than the subject? Telling us we have small genitals and lack of physical ability is a bit much don't you think? I would never say these things about you. Let's stay professional Let's talk about the ethics of long range shooting, the subject you started with.

[botwtv]

1) You're assuming we're lying about wounding animals and watching them run away. The hunts that I have edited for The Best of the West have always ended with a dead animal. However, I have seen many close range shows that kill an animal that runs off that they are forced to recover the next day. John Porter, a Wyoming Sheep Guide and Field Host on our show has said that he is 200 - 300% more successful at killing and recovering game using long range tactics rather than close range.

[botwtv]

The reason being is that hunters have more time to setup their rifle, take an accurate shot for an accurate kill. Many hunters, when getting in close range are so filled with excitement that they are shooting off hand, and have a greater potential of scaring the game so it moves as the shot is being made and hence creating chance of a misplaced shot. Therefore, my point is that range should not be the determining factor within a person's hunting ethics, a hunter's ability to be accurate should

[botwtv]

We say we're "breaking the boundaries" of long range shooting, what we mean is we are increasing a hunter's ability to be accurate at any range. If this is not a boundary to be explored then tell me how do you measure what is ethically too far or too close?

[botwtv]

Should we say that the only way to ethically kill an animal is to get within range that we could do it with a knife in hand? This would certainly be much closer than shooting it at a hundred yards. I do agree that it's respectable to get close to an animal and to hunt hard. But I can't say that a hunter is unethical if he wants to kill an animal at 700 yards and he has the proven ability and technology to do so.

[botwtv]

3) Meat hunting - this is a good point you bring up about harvesting animals for the meat. I myself support meat hunting above trophy hunting, but there are many hunters who do not share my convictions. Many who hunt bears and billy goats don't eat the meat but hunt for the thrill and the hide. I believe a hunter ought to do whatever they can to kill the animal in a way to harvest the meat. Trophy hunters however are going to kill the animal in a way that they can harvest the horns.

[botwtv]

This is another can of worms completely. Perhaps we should ask our outfitters to help us kill sheep in easier places to prevent animals falling like they do in the cliffs of the high country.

[jeffberd]

everything I say applies to you , outfitters, residents alike.

[yukoner9]

perhaps these guys can consistently shoot that far. BUT that doesn't mean that l am ever going to think that shooting at those kinds of ranges is ethical or practical. l believe you should know your gun and how it preforms at long ranges (500 yrds) and if you do have to shoot that far for whatever reason you can comfortably do it. l believe that hunting is about the thrill of the chase not saying well l'm within 900 yards thats close enough. l consider myself educated and will never believe.

[Stihlpony]

There are other things to remember like,how much light you have left,weather conditions, the animal spotting you at long ranges( maybe 900 yds is as close as you can get ),how many days you have left to hunt,elevation, taking a once and a lifetime animal you spent alot of money to hunt ! You can't limit your hunt to doing the one thing every time you go out ! That gets boring! Thrill of the chase is about adapting your skills to the situation at hand and being successful doing it!

[jeffberd]

YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING

There is no thrill of the chase when you are that far out...tell yourself whatever you have to if it gets you to sleep at night, but you guys make most hunters SICK and give hunting a bad name.

If 900 yards is "as close as you can get" .......then its time to get off your fat ass and cut the distance partner......that or do the ETHICAL thing and have some patience and wait for a better shot.

[Stihlpony]

What caliber does he shoot to take that ram at that range! Is there a certain caliber you guys recommend for medium size game? I shoot a 7mm mainly because of the higher bc and bullet weights, but have been leaning toward something a little bit smaller topped with a huskemaw . Any suggestions? LOVE THE SHOW !! MY FAV HANDS DOWN !!

[yukoner9]

you should never have to shoot that far to begin with if you have any idea how to put on a stalk. l would like to know how many animals are wounded and or missed at that range in comparrison to ones succussfully harvested. This promotes long range shooting to those who can not consistently hit animals at mid range and increases potential for accidents in the field and the average hunter that doesn't have video replay and four guys watching not following up on an animal he thinks he missed .

[Stihlpony]

In this case YOU ARE WRONG ! The people that are in these videos don't encourage ANYONE to shoot ANYTHING that far ! These guys build there own guns and TEST there guns in every situation possible ! These guys are extremely capable of taking these animals at long ranges! I have taken deer at ranges that far exceed other peoples capabilities, and it is because i now my equipment inside and out because of PRACTICE ! And lots of it! Don't be a hater!! Get educated and become a believer!

[highgrade1980]

why r u whispering if the ram is 720 yds away

[huskemaw]

Dude that's so funny! You know we wonder that all the time here in the office while we're putting these shows together :D Very observant :D What I always wonder in all hunting shows is why people whisper to the camera after they've shot the animal. The animal's dead or dieing you don't need to be sneaky anymore!

Thanks for watching dude,

Brandon

TV Editor

The Best of the West

[botwtv]

Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny too when I came across the footage for our show :D Thanks for watching dude!

- TV Editing Staff At Best of the West

[trek1500mn]

In perfect gut positioin......Hilarious!