I along with most Europeans have that nasty government run healthcare that the Americans are always freaking out about.
Turns out it costs *half* as much, no one is left to die or goes bankrupt because they are poor and we are all healthier and live longer than the average American. WTF? What, no "Death Panels"? Who knew? ;-)
America - switch off Fox News and move to the UK or Germany for a year. Then you can make up your own mind....
ALL OF YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP IN HERE ......PRESIDENT OBAMA IS OWNING ALL THESE MOTHERFUCKERS IN CONGRESS...HE'S NOT GOING TO LET THESE BASTARDS DISRESPECT HIM....IF THESE FUCKS WANT TO BE PRESIDENT ...RUN FOR OFFICE GET ELECTED...AND THEN YOU CAN COME AND TALKJ ALL THE SHIT YOU WANT....AND GET MORE TIME
He also lied about everyone being able to keep their own health plan and doctors ( unless you belong to a Union), and ObamaCare not adding anything to the deficit.
Employers are deciding it's cheaper to just pay the penalty than try to insure employees with the increased costs, and insurers are refusing to insure people right and left.
The whole purpose of the bill was supposedly to decrease health care costs, reduce the deficit, and make sure that all americans were covered.
And now, seven months after the passage of Obamacare, what is "factually accurate"?
CNNMoney.com(10/20/2010)-
"Employees’ share of premiums for a family plan is up an average 14%, to $3,997, vs. just a 3% rise in the total bill, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.
And it’s not just premiums that are spiraling higher. You’re also likely to be hit with higher deductibles and out-of-pocket maximums as well as bigger bills for doctor’s visits and drugs."
The Snake oil con man got it completely backwards. From CNN (10/20/2010);
Employees’ share of premiums for a family plan is up an average 14%, to $3,997, vs. just a 3% rise in the total bill, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.
I cant wait for the insurance reform! My wife and I have anthem/blue shield and together have had 5 sequential, progressive dental treatments in the past 5 months. Now anthem/blue cross has told us that they will not cover any more treatments EVEN THOUGH we still pay a monthly premium, granted they never fully paid for any of them. We give these assholes 90 bucks a month every month and they want to deny us the coverage that we are paying for? Bullshit!
This health car bill is very bad. It will ultimately lead to government run health care. Obama said as much back in 2001. It's been the Democratic plan all along.
So now that Obama has actually apologized for being wrong about this point, where is the retraction? In fact, Mr. Alexander is correct and the CBO has said that EVERYONE will see an increase in costs from this plan.
@TheLastBrainLeft lol what a fine concept of democracy you have there.
you americans need to adopt something like the Canadian healthcare system- you can even see psychiatrists for free so neocons can finally get the help they need.
@mockdisaster You mind you country well mind ours. Thank you.
Canada can afford it because we're their military. When we make big moves we have to think hard first. We have the biggest economy in the entire world it moves slow at times.
You know why so many jealous, foreigners overseas are meddling in our politics? Because they're bored stiff with their countries. you guys look up to us. admit it
We wish they would get a life. WE MEDDLE IN YOUR POLITICS, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
@jawzmuzik Tell your goverment to get out of our nose and i'll be very happy to got out of yours. You tell us that you are the police force of the world and then tell us we have no say in anything. I hope I don't need to tell you where you can put your ideas and where to go. If you contunue to think you own the world we shall have to take you down. You are only 300 million people and we are billions. Best of luck to you in the new year.
Democrats: We need to force the happy 90% some admittedly worse healthcare so we can force the 8% that dont want any at all and the 2% that actually need it some bad coverage! Oh, and we need to charge the same 90% more in taxes to fund it.
Republicans: Uh, no one wants to do that, we cant afford it, it's self-destructive and extremely foolish.
I can understand, whether republicans are doing this intentionally or unintentionally.
Intentionally is a possibility, but unintentionally it doesn't seams logical. As Republicans are good in making complicated tax and other laws then why they are not able to understand the simple concept that a person who is earning below 60,000 annually and not working in a corporate sector is having difficulties getting health insurance. And these are the people who are in need of this bill.
Since when is Obaomao interested in facts? He's lied about everything and has no concept of what America is about. Expanding govt. is NOT what anyone wants, except for those in power now. America is bankrupt and can't afford another monstrous entitlement program that will never work! IMPEACH OBAOMAO NOW!
That is why the problem is not just healthcare, but the food we eat. They need to start making healthier foods and label everything that is done to it. They people are in the dark about everything.
duddleytheman is correct. Obama's facts were entirely inaccurate...AGAIN. Go to the CBO figures and they confirm that Lamar Alexander was totally CORRECT - the President should have been SMACKED down for his utter arrogance alone.
Obama owned everyone of those nitwits Republican do-nothings. It's about time. They've been yammering lies and misinformation for over a year.
Time to make them put up or shut up and call them out for their nastiness....and the misinformation they blither all over Fox news and in every camera stuck in their face.
The premiums will GO UP! You cannot deny that facts. If the government mandates insurance companies remove caps and put limits on out-of-pocket expenses, the premiums will GO UP!
It is called common sense. Even with 30 million new customers, presuming they are healthy, the rates are still going up for individual plans. The requirements being proposed will cost MORE, therefore rates will go up. Rates will still be based on one's individual health.
@CommonSenseJoe Not true group rates are not based on ones individual heath. They are usually based on the average age of the company and the number of claims submitted the previous year. That is why for large companies you do not have to complete a health evaluate form before you are enrolled. The key is the size of the pool.
@CommonSenseJoe The way it works is that the rate the individual pays is based on the individual and family rates the insurance company assigns to the group/pool. Typically the larger and healthier the pool the cheaper the insurance for the individual. That is why when an individual or small company purchases insurance outside of a large pool/group it is so expensive.
@CommonSenseJoe Yes in the clip they are talking about individual plans, but for those individuals that are participating in the exchange. You can look at the exchange as a very, very large group/pool. As such, the individuals premiums will be based on the negotiate rate for the group. The way it is now if you purchase a plan as an individual you stand alone, at the mercy of the insurance company. Regulation without the power of a large group would make individual policies cost prohibitive.
I have an individual policy now. What do you think will happen when the government tells them that they must remove my annual and lifetime caps and limit my out-of-pocket expenses? Do you think they will cut my premiums? Honestly, do you think they will accept an increased expose for the same price as I am getting now?
The problem is not with the insurance companies but with the actual cost of healthcare. This will only force small companies out of business and raise rates.
@CommonSenseJoe...if you choose to keep your high priced insurance...that is on you. Obama was talking about those who are looking to SAVE money on insurance or get more coverage or those with NO insurance to purchase it.
Good for you if you can afford "cadillac" insurance. You are luckier than most.
You will have the same choice for low cost insurance as everyone else. What you choose is up to you.
There will be no low cost plans. Don't you get it? The government is going to tell you and the insurance company what you have to buy and what coverage they have to provide. I don't have a "Cadillac" plan now. I have major medical because that is all I can afford. This will make everyone's insurance more expensive.
@CommonSenseJoe...well, if you have individual insurance and the premium increases, your choice is to either keep it and pay higher premiums (after all, the insurance companies NEED your money to support their lifestyle and highly paid execs) - or you can choose a lower cost group program.
Don't purposely hit yourself in the head with a hammer and then complain about the pain.
If there is a lower cost group program, I would surely sign up for it. However, with the requirements in this bill, there will be no lower cost group plans. Rates are going up and many companies will STOP writing health insurance all together. That is what this bill is about.
@commonsensejoe That is why the mandate is on the table to offset the regulation being proposed for the insurance companies. The thought being now you have 30 million more customers many of which are healthy.
@CommonSenseJoe I think your comment just captured the complexity of the situation. If you just do the mandate without addressing regulation the insurance companies will then just spread their venom exponentially. The components (i.e., size of pool, regulation, cost of insurance, etc.) are inextricably related.
We have regulations now. The cost of insurance is determine by the cost of care. Nothing in this bill addresses the cost of healthcare. This is the real problem. Medicare reimburses 80% and Medicaid 60% of cost.
Govt. health care would be ruinous. We already see how badly things like police and fire departments are run. Do you really want your nurses and doctors forced to become lazy, socialist bums like them?
@rauldukelive...don't make yourself look ridiculous. We've had Govt healthcare for generations.
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans Health Plan, most healthplans for State employees.....and EVERY Senator and Congressman or woman and EVERY Federal emplyee around the world including the President and his family are covered by the Federal Health Plan.
8161964mc "666 OMEN Mark of the Beast DEATH SENTENCE Obama's Antichrist announced by 666 drawn same day as victory news on front pages Obama's win and Lottery 666 666 means Lotto-money So refuse Obama's money That's Mark of the Beast to buy people to hush criticism Obama death sentence for forged certificate then accessing nuclear clearance watch?v=Oyixg5NbDsQ watch?v=gpBfS5FWVWI watch?v=aKfLkxMm2nw watch?v=DqjCaMGht-Q Anyone make a new video ? Power to you !"
@8161964mc... Nothing will strike fear into a bigots heart faster than a well-educated Black man who's smarter than most AND who sits in the Oval Office.
Poor thing. Guess you don't feel much like a man anymore, huh?
A Republican there made the point that if you took every cent of profit out of the health care industry, it would pay for a whopping 2 days of care for the US. That's 363 days unaffected. But those profits play a huge role in R&D, which is why you don't see much being invented in countries with socialized medicine.
And if the UK's so great, why do so many Brits come to the US to escape the NHS? Go read the Times Online website for a recent story about just how great socialized medicine is.
Why are the prices going up is the question. The answer is that the government, the single biggest insurance company, does not pay the cost of the treatment given to their patients. Medicare is 80% of cost. Medicaid is 60% of cost. Those loss have to be paid by others through higher prices.
Waste and fraud in Medicare and Medicaid are far higher than in the private sector. That's because while a private company must maximize efficiency to earn a profit, the federal government can just request more tax revenue or run a deficit, and that's exactly what's happening. Medicare alone has $38 trillion in unfunded liabilities.
Lamar Alexander was factually correct. Individual plans will go up 10-15% according to the CBO estimate. Group plans will go down. From Politifact: "People who have to go out and buy insurance on their own (the individual market) would see rates increase by 10 to 13 percent. " So he "smacked him down" with incorrect information. Typical Obama.
What he didnt mention is that they would make up only 17 percent of workers covered by private insurance. And he didnt mention these costs would go up because benefits would improve in the nongroup market. typical republican. He was being misleading
He was incorrect and Obama corrected him on the statements he made.
That's the problem with Repubs...they either don't understand the program or they know exactly what it is and chose to spread misinformation.
After all, most of those Repubs are on the insurance payroll anyway thanks to the lobbyists. They aren't about to give up all that lobbyist money and perks.
@duddleytheman... You've missed something. I'm not talking "campaign" contributions. I'm talking money and perks the deadbeat Repubs take from insurance lobbyists to put in their own pockets.....it's called "bribery"....
You've missed something, the politician that exist todyay that isn't bought is a rare animal, and that applies to BOTH sides. We need to throw them all out and get some HONORABLE people in there. If you don't think dems are not bought and paid for too, you're really not being honest.
Furthermore, in a nation as big as 300 million, why is spending 15 percent of $14 trillion really so bad? That means, for one thing, we're willing to let prices go higher naturally get top-quality care.
Now, there are certainly costs we could get rid of, but GDP is a measure of GROWTH. The economy doesn't care what we spend our money on so long as there' GROWTH. It's just like the protectionist idiots who argue against free trade and want to "bring back manufacturing."
Surely we spend comparable amounts on OTHER bills or necessities of American life as part of the GDP. Healthcare can't be the only one that spends a high amount. What about food or clothing or housing?
Yet few people are saying the gov't should take over any of those 3 markets or totally subsidize the shit out of them. How about "grocery insurance"? Negotiating with farmers to "lower prices"? Come on, guys.
Argue about better reasons than "we spend too much as part of gdp".
And pardon me for asking, but are there any ACTUAL studies 'proving' that we "spend too much"? Yes, costs are higher than they could be, but even Switzerland, which has a much better system (but not entirely gov't-controlled or single-payer) with lots of choice of insurers, for example, pays 11%. That's only 4-5% less than us. Yet few people in Switzerland are clamoring to pass 2,000-page bills to 'fix the problem.'
The real problem with Democrats' traditional HC plans over the last several decades is that they simply wanna cover more people without addressing the issue of actual cost very much. Sure, coverage increases affordability, but at what cost?
So the bill supposedly reduces HC spending/deficit by $130 billion (over 10 years, though), and we supposedly may reduce premiums 7-10% or 14% or whatever the figure is now. We'll still have a very large chunk of the economy devoted to HC spending.
I mean, look. If we can get actual premiums down significantly and allow folks better ease of saving for routine treatments through things like MSAs, that seems to me a much preferable option. One of the obvious reasons doctor and hospital costs are so high is simply b/c they're insulated from consumer demand. If someone has to have a 3rd-party paying for the vast majority of their bills in a particular sector, what's the incentive to save or shop and compare?
Obama can't say anything without a teleprompter. Everybody knows that. The whole 4 hours was scripted. I don't know how they did it. Maybe a hidden earphone?
@codediporpal I know 8 years of Bush might make most think that any retard can be President... but I think Obama is a very intelligent man... even though I don't agree with most of what he says. (I favor Ron Paul.)
I bet Obama feels like he's trying to instruct a bunch of orangutans to build a space shuttle. And after this video... he probably is.
republicans shoulda learned already....you ain't getting shit past obama....that fool's too sharp....too knowledgeable....they thought they could bombard him with lies and misinformation...but he is too skilled for their bullshit
Republicans are exposed so clearly as self serving liars ( no faux outrage about Socialism when in the presence of adults). The blubber about "health savings accounts"! WHEN YOUR FUCKING PREMIUMS ARE $2000.00 A FUCKING MONTH WHOTHE HELL CAN SAVE SHIT?! They're socially retarded. No, seriously, they are.
"Nataline Sarkisyan died Thursday, [Dec 20, 2007] ... She had been in a vegetative state for weeks... hours after her health insurer [Cigna] reversed a decision and said it would pay for a liver transplant... The familys loss is immeasurable, and our thoughts and prayers are with them, Cigna said to the press... We deeply hope that the outpouring of concern, care and love that are being expressed for Natalines family help them at this time."
I love it that Cigna reversed its decisions hours before Sarkisyan died... after weeks of her being in a vegetative state... and then they put together the cheapest, most insincere "our thoughts and prayers are with them" pr release imaginable. BTW, Cigna gave millions to the Republican party to try and stop reform. Cigna is one of the companies that "posted a 56 percent gain in 2009 profits over 2008" -- Cigna made billions last year by kicking anybody who got sick off their rolls.
If you are uninsured and get cancer or are involved in a serious accident, you might change your mind about health care. Health care should be a right, not a privilege. The fact is Bush created the largest deficit in history because he was a republican moron. Why don't you people turn off Fox News and actually read an actual source, like the New York Times.
Bush and the Republicans forced the Medicare Part D Prescription Drug plan through Congress -- they held the voting in the House open for hours while the GOP bullied members to vote for it against their constituents interests. So now we're stuck w/it -- and the trillion $ it forces us to pay to big pharmaceutical companies, letting them charge whatever they want to charge. The GOP loves Big Pharma tho and will undemocratically filibuster any attempt to change it.
Let's employ the same "factual" data they used for global warming models. We will have models that will always work in our favor with fabricated data. Now they want to kill Toyota so the GM public option automobiles are 13-20% cheaper.
If these allegedly uninsured people have the ability to go out and purchase policies that are 13-15% more expensive, when a better deal comes along, why are we even considering paying for their health care in the first place?
Hilarious! 9 months ago, when the CBO did an analysis of an early Dem plan and said it would increase the deficit, the GOP couldn't stop talking about how wonderful the CBO was. Now that the CBO says something they don't like, you can't stop talking about how stupid you think they are compared to your genius-tood.
This bill may increase coverage, but it won't do a damn thing about premiums. It's just more regulation, more subsidies and more bullcrap. I mean, when you tell insurers how much they can charge individuals and families yearly for out-of-pocket and require them to take in the most expensive patients, there's nowhere to go but UP for premiums! It defies economic logic and history.
How in the hell are insurers, with all these new mandates and rules, gonna be able to reduce price?
All they got to do is cut their obscene CEO and top exec salaries, stop spending billions on lobbyists, rein in their ridiculous luxury TV ad budgets, fire some of the legions of lawyers and accountants they employ to comb back thru the records of anyone who actually files an expensive claim to try and find evidence that that person didn't notify them of a pre-existing conditon (even if the pre-existing condition has nothing to do w/the claim that the insurer doesn't want to pay)... etc, etc...
Private insurers spend nearly 25% of every health care $ on admin costs. Medicare and the Veterans Health Administration and other single payer systems usually spend about 5% of every health care $ on admin. I guess you like paying that 20% extra tax for billions in bonuses for top Blue Cross and Cigna execs.
How exactly would this bill "reduce premiums"?? Can anyone explain to me in economically smart terms what provision of the bill deals with the actual cost or price of insurance?
To my knowledge, there's no public option in the final bill as of yet, no repeal of McCarran-Ferguson, nothing to deal with the thousands of state regulations that force insurers to cover everything under the sun rather than let individual patients negotiate their plans with insurers, etc.
The more healthy people you have insured... the cheaper it is.
We are seeing the opposite effect all across the nation right now because all the healthy people are losing their jobs and deciding that health care is optional... it's only the sick people that keep health care... which makes prices rise on average.
oh... and McCarran-Ferguson was repealed in the House... bipartisan too.... only 19 voted against it.
Right on. Well said. I sometimes get the feeling that all the anti-reform people either never had to pay for their own health care or never knew anybody w/a serious illness. Health care is 17% of the economy and it's an incredibly complicated 17%. I don't want to have to try and puzzle through the bushwa that corporate lawyers have written, I just want to buy reasonable, reliable health insurance.
Hm. Interesting. I wonder why even MSNBC hasn't really covered the McCarran-Ferguson House repeal (or at least channels like Mox News were too lazy to upload videos about it).
To an extent, you're right. However, with the introduction of millions of expensive folks with preexisting conditions, it seems like this effect would at least be partially offset, if not by a whole lot just by nature of how expensive preexisting condition folks are.
You really want to let individual patients negotiate their plans w/insurers w/out any govt regulations forcing insurers to offer you certain minimum coverage? You really want to waste months of your life trying to puzzle through the complicated legalese insurers throw at you?
These companies employ armies of lawyers and bureacrats to buffalo customers and docs. That's why private insurers admin costs are 5x what Medicare and the VA's admin costs are.
Well, it seems that overzealous bureaucrats who care more about simply 'covering people' than efficiency or keeping costs low are actually in a big way driving up the insurance costs. Even if you take in all the other cost factors that single-payer advocates often cite, it's still a substantial factor. If an insurer has to take into account ALL these various treatments, why wouldn't they design their premiums to meet that cost?
I think at the very least, if you're gonna require that insurers cover so much in even the basic plans, they should make it VOLUNTARY for consumers to choose this stuff, and consumers who want certain things in or out of their plan can hopefully reach some sort of agreement with the insurer and opt out of the gov't-determined plan(s). For example, prenatal care. Men obviously don't need it. If a woman wants it in her plan, so be it. But if a man wants to pay less and not have it in there...
I'm not so sure about the complicated legalese point, either. I mean, in other complicated industries like finance, you don't have to be an expert to open a checking account or get a loan from a bank. All you have to do is shop and compare from the various banks or loan terms. Now, if you wanna be EXACTLY precise, you can try to read the legalese. But for the most part it's not that necessary.
It doesn't seem like insurers would need to tell you a whole lot about certain plan terms.
Maybe for some treatments rather than others, there would be more complicated rules. But I don't think any informed, intelligent consumer would have too much trouble figuring it out. And perhaps we can regulate against excessively complex rules.
My main concern on this particular matter is choice and competition. If premiums and cost weren't a factor, and it was easy to understand your coverage, wouldn't you rather be able to decide what in particular you want covered rather than gov't?
Your whole argument is bogus because you left out the fact that insurance is a for profit business. Cost will never come down, so long as each health care provider, hospital chains and equipment manufactures are for profit business. They will always find a way to beat the street by a penny and they will use every trick, including denying care, to do that.
The whole issue of state gov'ts deciding "Well, you insurers have to cover this and that and that" seems like simple gov't paternalism, perhaps even patronizing because they're assuming we consumers are either too dumb to know what we want or too dumb to negotiate with the insurers for our OWN shit.
Let the market and consumers decide more of the healthcare industry, not gov't. I assure you there will be at least some positive changes. HC can't possibly be a regulation-efficient industry.
If it were, it's one of the first, and that's kind of suspicious. With just about everything else, an increase in choice and competition and decrease in silly rules tends to reduce costs and prices in the long run.
I watched the entire thing, it was nice to see a *few* Republicans that didnt have their heads up their asses and was willing to concede on a few topics after hearing the counter ideas and the reasons why their ideas would fail...
it was also fun as usual listening to the same bullshit fail talking points and hearing them drone on over and over about how "the american people" wants something as if all of "the american people" want anything. some of americans, is not "the american people".
@rdrakken With the public option the majority of Americans DO want the health bill to pass! Without the public option the majority of Americans DON'T want this bill to pass.
You got it! Americans want Congress to get something done. We're tired of double-digit health insurance premium increases every year. It's killing American business because the rest of the world's costs are half or a third as much and are increasing only half as much.
yep. unfortunately, his facts ain't the same as every one elses. after he finished, the news readers showed the chart. CBO says it will go up 13%. them facts is stubborn things.....
For the vast majority of of Americans (those in group policies or 83% of workers) the CBO says the premiums would go down by 1-3%. The 13% you cite would only be for 17% of workers and the increase would be because they are in nongroup plans and they *would be getting better benefits*. (see table 1 of the CBO report)
Fact check your statements before you spout off in a elitist way please.
Nice. Thanks for going to the trouble to chase down the exact details. Republicans just want to keep the status quo w/annual double digit increases in health care premiums and huge profits for private insurers. So they try to confuse things by making up fact-free crap and throwing it into the middle of discussions. Anything to keep their corporate contributors happy!
Hilarious! The news readers showed that the CBO says that the premiums will stay the same or drop for the same insurance. They'll go up if you get a better insurance plan. If you're gonna make up bs, try to pick something that wasn't put out on national TV the same day.
He's almost as dumb as Cantor. I love it that Alexander chose to lie about what the Congressional Budget Office said about premium costs for the same health care benefits... when President Obama had just talked about that and had it the CBO quote lying right in front of him. That was classic!
You're claim to be a millionaire Las Vegas businessman who LOVES it that the "largest five health insurance companies posted a 56 percent gain in 2009 profits over 2008. The insurers including Wellpoint, UnitedHealth, Cigna, Aetna and Humana, which cover the majority of Americans with insurance." You're a businessman who loves paying double digit increases in health care premiums EVERY year? You're an OUT-OF-businessman, maybe. And you're a dweeb who calls the Army a "playground".
Hahahaha! We're talking about President Obama's smacking down the GOP for claiming that the Congressional Budget Office said premiums would go up for the exact same insurance under the proposed Democratic plans. And all you got is some weird non sequitur about Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. Let's get back to you claiming to be a "businessman" who thinks it's great for your business that health care premiums go up double digits EVERY YEAR.
YOu might want to read the comment I replied to idiot.
Costs are being driven up deliberatetly though gov res and meddeling so the socialist can justify taking it over.
Nothing is free, it has to be paid by some one. The problem is this is being applied to our debt, we'll never be able to pay it back and are goig to default at some point
this is just not sustainable.
You think things ar rough now? Wait till that happens.
He shot the entire House GOP caucus down all afternoon in Baltimore -- nailed them when they lied about the Congressional Budget Office saying that premiums would rise for the exact same insurance, slapped em around when they tried to claim that nobody needed health insurance cause they could go to the emergency room if they got sick. Obama's WICKED GOOD at slapping down bs!
And how short was the expiration date on this particular lie by the Talking-Anus-In-Chief?
But he's so pretty! and smooth! isn't he? Do you feel the vomit rise in your mouth when he says something, too?
greengringo2003 10 months ago
Liberals suck? you idiot!!!!
tac332 10 months ago
MY INCREASE KICKED IN ON MY HEALTH INSURANCE THANKS! NOW I CAN STRUGGLE EVEN MORE!
lourdes1020 10 months ago
I along with most Europeans have that nasty government run healthcare that the Americans are always freaking out about.
Turns out it costs *half* as much, no one is left to die or goes bankrupt because they are poor and we are all healthier and live longer than the average American. WTF? What, no "Death Panels"? Who knew? ;-)
America - switch off Fox News and move to the UK or Germany for a year. Then you can make up your own mind....
sh856531 11 months ago
A year later and it's been proven (again) that Obama is full of shit.
valentjn 11 months ago
@valentjn
Crawl back under your rock for another 100 years valentjn. You moron.
tac332 10 months ago
ALL OF YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP IN HERE ......PRESIDENT OBAMA IS OWNING ALL THESE MOTHERFUCKERS IN CONGRESS...HE'S NOT GOING TO LET THESE BASTARDS DISRESPECT HIM....IF THESE FUCKS WANT TO BE PRESIDENT ...RUN FOR OFFICE GET ELECTED...AND THEN YOU CAN COME AND TALKJ ALL THE SHIT YOU WANT....AND GET MORE TIME
salbella50 1 year ago
Where did Obama lie again? He's quoting the CBO.
You Focks News retards should sterilize yourselves and do the country a favor.
mayze666 1 year ago
Obama's such a shameless lying piece of garbage.
menzelcassini 1 year ago
He also lied about everyone being able to keep their own health plan and doctors ( unless you belong to a Union), and ObamaCare not adding anything to the deficit.
Employers are deciding it's cheaper to just pay the penalty than try to insure employees with the increased costs, and insurers are refusing to insure people right and left.
The whole purpose of the bill was supposedly to decrease health care costs, reduce the deficit, and make sure that all americans were covered.
Liar.
Hoosierhorsesense 1 year ago
Obama lied, TPM lied, liberals suck, Alexander was right.
TheLastBrainLeft 1 year ago
And now, seven months after the passage of Obamacare, what is "factually accurate"?
CNNMoney.com(10/20/2010)-
"Employees’ share of premiums for a family plan is up an average 14%, to $3,997, vs. just a 3% rise in the total bill, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.
And it’s not just premiums that are spiraling higher. You’re also likely to be hit with higher deductibles and out-of-pocket maximums as well as bigger bills for doctor’s visits and drugs."
Hoosierhorsesense 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Snake oil con man got it completely backwards. From CNN (10/20/2010);
Employees’ share of premiums for a family plan is up an average 14%, to $3,997, vs. just a 3% rise in the total bill, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.
Source; money.cnn.com/2010/10/20/pf/rising_health_care_costs.moneymag/
Hoosierhorsesense 1 year ago
Snake oil.
Hoosierhorsesense 1 year ago
LIAR
TheNRA4ever 1 year ago
Must stop watching Fox Entertainment Television aka Fox News....
icompeltharts 1 year ago
what a load of crap
xxxgreg 1 year ago
I cant wait for the insurance reform! My wife and I have anthem/blue shield and together have had 5 sequential, progressive dental treatments in the past 5 months. Now anthem/blue cross has told us that they will not cover any more treatments EVEN THOUGH we still pay a monthly premium, granted they never fully paid for any of them. We give these assholes 90 bucks a month every month and they want to deny us the coverage that we are paying for? Bullshit!
kage574 1 year ago
This health car bill is very bad. It will ultimately lead to government run health care. Obama said as much back in 2001. It's been the Democratic plan all along.
phillip84109 1 year ago 2
So now that Obama has actually apologized for being wrong about this point, where is the retraction? In fact, Mr. Alexander is correct and the CBO has said that EVERYONE will see an increase in costs from this plan.
txman437 2 years ago
He must like to hear himself talk!
HollyTNUSA 2 years ago
i am happy again that i voted for him
vcshort1 2 years ago
@vcshort1 You are a fucking idiot. Kill yourself or do something that will prevent you from ever voting again, please.
TheLastBrainLeft 1 year ago
@TheLastBrainLeft lol what a fine concept of democracy you have there.
you americans need to adopt something like the Canadian healthcare system- you can even see psychiatrists for free so neocons can finally get the help they need.
mockdisaster 1 year ago
@mockdisaster You mind you country well mind ours. Thank you.
Canada can afford it because we're their military. When we make big moves we have to think hard first. We have the biggest economy in the entire world it moves slow at times.
You know why so many jealous, foreigners overseas are meddling in our politics? Because they're bored stiff with their countries. you guys look up to us. admit it
We wish they would get a life. WE MEDDLE IN YOUR POLITICS, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
jawzmuzik 1 year ago
@jawzmuzik We don't need a military, luckily.
mockdisaster 1 year ago
@jawzmuzik Tell your goverment to get out of our nose and i'll be very happy to got out of yours. You tell us that you are the police force of the world and then tell us we have no say in anything. I hope I don't need to tell you where you can put your ideas and where to go. If you contunue to think you own the world we shall have to take you down. You are only 300 million people and we are billions. Best of luck to you in the new year.
ETericET 1 year ago
@ETericET WE OWN THE PLANET!!!!!!!!!! TAKE US DOWN? WELL BUDDY, THAT WILL BE SOME YEAR IN THE DISTANT FUTURE, FOR NOW. SIT ON IT PAL! HAHAHHA
HAHAHAH HAHHAHA AHHAHAH HAHAHAHAH A HAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHHAHAA
AHAHAHAH AHAHHAHAHHAA AHAHAHAHHAAHAHA HAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA HAHAHAHA AHHAHAHAHAH AHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jawzmuzik 1 year ago
@ETericET IM ONLY KIDDING. WE LOVE ALL OF YOU GUYS!
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!
jawzmuzik 1 year ago
LOL @ Obama "smacking down" anybody. He continues to show that he's one of this nations weakest leaders that we've seen.
mikeb00 2 years ago
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Democrats: We need to force the happy 90% some admittedly worse healthcare so we can force the 8% that dont want any at all and the 2% that actually need it some bad coverage! Oh, and we need to charge the same 90% more in taxes to fund it.
Republicans: Uh, no one wants to do that, we cant afford it, it's self-destructive and extremely foolish.
Democrats: [blinks] Oh. Darn
numberoneandahalf 2 years ago
I can understand, whether republicans are doing this intentionally or unintentionally.
Intentionally is a possibility, but unintentionally it doesn't seams logical. As Republicans are good in making complicated tax and other laws then why they are not able to understand the simple concept that a person who is earning below 60,000 annually and not working in a corporate sector is having difficulties getting health insurance. And these are the people who are in need of this bill.
emadmsjk 2 years ago
More government involvement = Higher costs.
This has already been proven true with college tuition, mortgages, insurance and health care.
This new plan will blow a bigger hole in the budget and further devastate our children's & our grandchildren's economic inheritance.
MaxShinty 2 years ago
Obama is disgusting.
saintsnbraves1 2 years ago
Since when is Obaomao interested in facts? He's lied about everything and has no concept of what America is about. Expanding govt. is NOT what anyone wants, except for those in power now. America is bankrupt and can't afford another monstrous entitlement program that will never work! IMPEACH OBAOMAO NOW!
Zile77 2 years ago
That is why the problem is not just healthcare, but the food we eat. They need to start making healthier foods and label everything that is done to it. They people are in the dark about everything.
hogskin 2 years ago 2
The more that the government controls, the more they control you. Plain and simple....the rest is drama until they get all that they want.
hogskin 2 years ago
ouch, that dude got owned
bigboss025 2 years ago
The sad thing is, it was Accurate and the president just lied for the 2000...'th time on Video.
duddleytheman 2 years ago
duddleytheman is correct. Obama's facts were entirely inaccurate...AGAIN. Go to the CBO figures and they confirm that Lamar Alexander was totally CORRECT - the President should have been SMACKED down for his utter arrogance alone.
contradictioncounter 2 years ago
Hannity played this clip but he left out the last 30 seconds or so where Obama clearly laid out the facts. Hannity is ridiculous.
zapstrung 2 years ago
OBAMA GRILLED EVERYONE LOL
kjc1121 2 years ago
Obama owned everyone of those nitwits Republican do-nothings. It's about time. They've been yammering lies and misinformation for over a year.
Time to make them put up or shut up and call them out for their nastiness....and the misinformation they blither all over Fox news and in every camera stuck in their face.
Go Obama....shut 'em down.
172677 2 years ago
We need a public option NOW!!!
gazai1 2 years ago
But , of course, it was factually accurate. Obama lies. I know that is not news. Obama lies. It is old news.
TAMARLANE 2 years ago
Political Theatre
JebBlack2010 2 years ago
U know who is gonna be affected by this health insurance plan?! Young people and drs
Chopan8809 2 years ago
The best way to restrain costs is THE PUBLIC OPTION.
DillonX 2 years ago
@DillonX - stick a fork in the Public Option, it's done!
StinkingHombre 2 years ago
Alexander is just one more CORPORATE WHORE!
DillonX 2 years ago
The premiums will GO UP! You cannot deny that facts. If the government mandates insurance companies remove caps and put limits on out-of-pocket expenses, the premiums will GO UP!
CommonSenseJoe 2 years ago
@CommonSenseJoe... So, where did you get your degree in economics and accounting....and when were you placed on the CBO?
You watch too much Fox channel.
172677 2 years ago
It is called common sense. Even with 30 million new customers, presuming they are healthy, the rates are still going up for individual plans. The requirements being proposed will cost MORE, therefore rates will go up. Rates will still be based on one's individual health.
CommonSenseJoe 2 years ago
@CommonSenseJoe Not true group rates are not based on ones individual heath. They are usually based on the average age of the company and the number of claims submitted the previous year. That is why for large companies you do not have to complete a health evaluate form before you are enrolled. The key is the size of the pool.
MsVision2020 2 years ago
We are not talking about GROUP. They are talking about individual rates.
CommonSenseJoe 2 years ago
@CommonSenseJoe The way it works is that the rate the individual pays is based on the individual and family rates the insurance company assigns to the group/pool. Typically the larger and healthier the pool the cheaper the insurance for the individual. That is why when an individual or small company purchases insurance outside of a large pool/group it is so expensive.
MsVision2020 2 years ago
I understand that. In this clip, they are talking about INDIVIDUAL plans. The premiums WILL GO UP. There is no doubt about that.
CommonSenseJoe 2 years ago
@CommonSenseJoe Yes in the clip they are talking about individual plans, but for those individuals that are participating in the exchange. You can look at the exchange as a very, very large group/pool. As such, the individuals premiums will be based on the negotiate rate for the group. The way it is now if you purchase a plan as an individual you stand alone, at the mercy of the insurance company. Regulation without the power of a large group would make individual policies cost prohibitive.
MsVision2020 2 years ago
I have an individual policy now. What do you think will happen when the government tells them that they must remove my annual and lifetime caps and limit my out-of-pocket expenses? Do you think they will cut my premiums? Honestly, do you think they will accept an increased expose for the same price as I am getting now?
The problem is not with the insurance companies but with the actual cost of healthcare. This will only force small companies out of business and raise rates.
CommonSenseJoe 2 years ago
@CommonSenseJoe...if you choose to keep your high priced insurance...that is on you. Obama was talking about those who are looking to SAVE money on insurance or get more coverage or those with NO insurance to purchase it.
Good for you if you can afford "cadillac" insurance. You are luckier than most.
You will have the same choice for low cost insurance as everyone else. What you choose is up to you.
172677 2 years ago
There will be no low cost plans. Don't you get it? The government is going to tell you and the insurance company what you have to buy and what coverage they have to provide. I don't have a "Cadillac" plan now. I have major medical because that is all I can afford. This will make everyone's insurance more expensive.
CommonSenseJoe 2 years ago
@CommonSenseJoe...well, if you have individual insurance and the premium increases, your choice is to either keep it and pay higher premiums (after all, the insurance companies NEED your money to support their lifestyle and highly paid execs) - or you can choose a lower cost group program.
Don't purposely hit yourself in the head with a hammer and then complain about the pain.
172677 2 years ago
If there is a lower cost group program, I would surely sign up for it. However, with the requirements in this bill, there will be no lower cost group plans. Rates are going up and many companies will STOP writing health insurance all together. That is what this bill is about.
CommonSenseJoe 2 years ago
@commonsensejoe That is why the mandate is on the table to offset the regulation being proposed for the insurance companies. The thought being now you have 30 million more customers many of which are healthy.
MsVision2020 2 years ago
If that is true, just do the mandate then. The problem is that this is only about health insurance, not the cost of healthcare.
CommonSenseJoe 2 years ago
@CommonSenseJoe I think your comment just captured the complexity of the situation. If you just do the mandate without addressing regulation the insurance companies will then just spread their venom exponentially. The components (i.e., size of pool, regulation, cost of insurance, etc.) are inextricably related.
MsVision2020 2 years ago
We have regulations now. The cost of insurance is determine by the cost of care. Nothing in this bill addresses the cost of healthcare. This is the real problem. Medicare reimburses 80% and Medicaid 60% of cost.
CommonSenseJoe 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Obama is a Fraud. He's not factually Accurate is almost every sentence he spews out from a teleprompter.
papavalium 2 years ago
BUILD A TURTLE FENCE!!!!!
zartann1856 2 years ago
look at how fucked up the dept. of education or the post office has become
8161964mc 2 years ago
Govt. health care would be ruinous. We already see how badly things like police and fire departments are run. Do you really want your nurses and doctors forced to become lazy, socialist bums like them?
raouldukelives 2 years ago
@rauldukelive...don't make yourself look ridiculous. We've had Govt healthcare for generations.
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans Health Plan, most healthplans for State employees.....and EVERY Senator and Congressman or woman and EVERY Federal emplyee around the world including the President and his family are covered by the Federal Health Plan.
Turn off Fox.
172677 2 years ago
fight the power---sic semper tyranus
8161964mc 2 years ago
this guy is a egomaniac--- and arrogant to boot---- obama is a marxist pig
8161964mc 2 years ago
BeastObrahma 2 years ago
@8161964mc... Nothing will strike fear into a bigots heart faster than a well-educated Black man who's smarter than most AND who sits in the Oval Office.
Poor thing. Guess you don't feel much like a man anymore, huh?
172677 2 years ago
Here's why government health care want work. Let's just say that you have to buy grocery insurance for 300.00 per month.
Now every time you want to buy your groceries you just show them your government grocery card. Do you really think that
the system would be solvent or how long do you think it would tale before it went broke. Or you could have it limited to only
dry goods and no protein, somewhat like the health care you would receive.
ou8123ter 2 years ago
@ou8123ter.....
What a dumbass attempt at an example. Each will pay a premium for healthcare, income based......
What a dope.
172677 2 years ago
A Republican there made the point that if you took every cent of profit out of the health care industry, it would pay for a whopping 2 days of care for the US. That's 363 days unaffected. But those profits play a huge role in R&D, which is why you don't see much being invented in countries with socialized medicine.
And if the UK's so great, why do so many Brits come to the US to escape the NHS? Go read the Times Online website for a recent story about just how great socialized medicine is.
cathasaigh 2 years ago
@cathasaigh The Times Online article is under "Life & Style" and then "Health" by the way.
cathasaigh 2 years ago
You are ignoring the administrative overhead, which is far less in a single payer system. Then there is advertising, and legal costs.
There is also no real price control, which is why medical bills are so high, which increases premiums.
laneguzel 2 years ago
Why are the prices going up is the question. The answer is that the government, the single biggest insurance company, does not pay the cost of the treatment given to their patients. Medicare is 80% of cost. Medicaid is 60% of cost. Those loss have to be paid by others through higher prices.
CommonSenseJoe 2 years ago
Waste and fraud in Medicare and Medicaid are far higher than in the private sector. That's because while a private company must maximize efficiency to earn a profit, the federal government can just request more tax revenue or run a deficit, and that's exactly what's happening. Medicare alone has $38 trillion in unfunded liabilities.
cathasaigh 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Both parties are corporate whores. there will be no public option.
mrpatience2007 2 years ago
Comment removed
cathasaigh 2 years ago
Health SHOULDN'T be a business. How fucked up is you?
In Europe you pay zero if you're under 23 just to be covered.
Taxes are enough! The government spends less per capita with universal coverage. AND you can still get private insurance.
Novinte 2 years ago
Then move to Europe and stay there. Your 2nd sentence says it all, which really isn't even a correct sentence.
This is an example of the problems in America today. Let Europe be Europe. Leave AMERICA ALONE!
DeezerStephens 2 years ago
Lamar Alexander was factually correct. Individual plans will go up 10-15% according to the CBO estimate. Group plans will go down. From Politifact: "People who have to go out and buy insurance on their own (the individual market) would see rates increase by 10 to 13 percent. " So he "smacked him down" with incorrect information. Typical Obama.
the808bass 2 years ago 5
What he didnt mention is that they would make up only 17 percent of workers covered by private insurance. And he didnt mention these costs would go up because benefits would improve in the nongroup market. typical republican. He was being misleading
rawgstal 2 years ago
That's not what Alexander was talking about.
He was incorrect and Obama corrected him on the statements he made.
That's the problem with Repubs...they either don't understand the program or they know exactly what it is and chose to spread misinformation.
After all, most of those Repubs are on the insurance payroll anyway thanks to the lobbyists. They aren't about to give up all that lobbyist money and perks.
172677 2 years ago
172677 - The Democrats get the same campaign contributions from corporations, if not more. This country is getting railroaded.
duddleytheman 2 years ago
@duddleytheman... You've missed something. I'm not talking "campaign" contributions. I'm talking money and perks the deadbeat Repubs take from insurance lobbyists to put in their own pockets.....it's called "bribery"....
They've been bought off like the whores they are.
172677 2 years ago
You've missed something, the politician that exist todyay that isn't bought is a rare animal, and that applies to BOTH sides. We need to throw them all out and get some HONORABLE people in there. If you don't think dems are not bought and paid for too, you're really not being honest.
HereinLasVegas 2 years ago
Furthermore, in a nation as big as 300 million, why is spending 15 percent of $14 trillion really so bad? That means, for one thing, we're willing to let prices go higher naturally get top-quality care.
Now, there are certainly costs we could get rid of, but GDP is a measure of GROWTH. The economy doesn't care what we spend our money on so long as there' GROWTH. It's just like the protectionist idiots who argue against free trade and want to "bring back manufacturing."
whoo689 2 years ago
Here's a gun Republicunts, feel free to use your beloved 2nd Amendment and go fucking kill yourselves and your inbred families.
salazarmark 2 years ago
Surely we spend comparable amounts on OTHER bills or necessities of American life as part of the GDP. Healthcare can't be the only one that spends a high amount. What about food or clothing or housing?
Yet few people are saying the gov't should take over any of those 3 markets or totally subsidize the shit out of them. How about "grocery insurance"? Negotiating with farmers to "lower prices"? Come on, guys.
Argue about better reasons than "we spend too much as part of gdp".
whoo689 2 years ago
And pardon me for asking, but are there any ACTUAL studies 'proving' that we "spend too much"? Yes, costs are higher than they could be, but even Switzerland, which has a much better system (but not entirely gov't-controlled or single-payer) with lots of choice of insurers, for example, pays 11%. That's only 4-5% less than us. Yet few people in Switzerland are clamoring to pass 2,000-page bills to 'fix the problem.'
whoo689 2 years ago 2
@whoo689...lots of research and study done on this subject.
Institute of Medicine and National Academy of Science are just two of them.
All you dummies just have to google the info if you want the facts.
Turn off Fox channel.
172677 2 years ago
The real problem with Democrats' traditional HC plans over the last several decades is that they simply wanna cover more people without addressing the issue of actual cost very much. Sure, coverage increases affordability, but at what cost?
So the bill supposedly reduces HC spending/deficit by $130 billion (over 10 years, though), and we supposedly may reduce premiums 7-10% or 14% or whatever the figure is now. We'll still have a very large chunk of the economy devoted to HC spending.
whoo689 2 years ago
I mean, look. If we can get actual premiums down significantly and allow folks better ease of saving for routine treatments through things like MSAs, that seems to me a much preferable option. One of the obvious reasons doctor and hospital costs are so high is simply b/c they're insulated from consumer demand. If someone has to have a 3rd-party paying for the vast majority of their bills in a particular sector, what's the incentive to save or shop and compare?
whoo689 2 years ago
Bush could never have been so well informed about the facts. I'm so grateful that the U.S. has an intelligent and educated president.
patriciaredstone 2 years ago
Obama can't say anything without a teleprompter. Everybody knows that. The whole 4 hours was scripted. I don't know how they did it. Maybe a hidden earphone?
codediporpal 2 years ago
@codediporpal I know 8 years of Bush might make most think that any retard can be President... but I think Obama is a very intelligent man... even though I don't agree with most of what he says. (I favor Ron Paul.)
I bet Obama feels like he's trying to instruct a bunch of orangutans to build a space shuttle. And after this video... he probably is.
librano 2 years ago
republicans shoulda learned already....you ain't getting shit past obama....that fool's too sharp....too knowledgeable....they thought they could bombard him with lies and misinformation...but he is too skilled for their bullshit
jshooper 2 years ago
It's not factually accurate. = YOU LIE!
thelegendistrue 2 years ago
Obama WIN
file83 2 years ago
Republicans are exposed so clearly as self serving liars ( no faux outrage about Socialism when in the presence of adults). The blubber about "health savings accounts"! WHEN YOUR FUCKING PREMIUMS ARE $2000.00 A FUCKING MONTH WHOTHE HELL CAN SAVE SHIT?! They're socially retarded. No, seriously, they are.
TheFrankFactor 2 years ago
Republicans hate people and love corporations.
"Nataline Sarkisyan died Thursday, [Dec 20, 2007] ... She had been in a vegetative state for weeks... hours after her health insurer [Cigna] reversed a decision and said it would pay for a liver transplant... The familys loss is immeasurable, and our thoughts and prayers are with them, Cigna said to the press... We deeply hope that the outpouring of concern, care and love that are being expressed for Natalines family help them at this time."
toofoocactus 2 years ago
I love it that Cigna reversed its decisions hours before Sarkisyan died... after weeks of her being in a vegetative state... and then they put together the cheapest, most insincere "our thoughts and prayers are with them" pr release imaginable. BTW, Cigna gave millions to the Republican party to try and stop reform. Cigna is one of the companies that "posted a 56 percent gain in 2009 profits over 2008" -- Cigna made billions last year by kicking anybody who got sick off their rolls.
toofoocactus 2 years ago
If you are uninsured and get cancer or are involved in a serious accident, you might change your mind about health care. Health care should be a right, not a privilege. The fact is Bush created the largest deficit in history because he was a republican moron. Why don't you people turn off Fox News and actually read an actual source, like the New York Times.
jazzyjen23 2 years ago
Bush and the Republicans forced the Medicare Part D Prescription Drug plan through Congress -- they held the voting in the House open for hours while the GOP bullied members to vote for it against their constituents interests. So now we're stuck w/it -- and the trillion $ it forces us to pay to big pharmaceutical companies, letting them charge whatever they want to charge. The GOP loves Big Pharma tho and will undemocratically filibuster any attempt to change it.
toofoocactus 2 years ago
Let's employ the same "factual" data they used for global warming models. We will have models that will always work in our favor with fabricated data. Now they want to kill Toyota so the GM public option automobiles are 13-20% cheaper.
spidermanjohn 2 years ago
If these allegedly uninsured people have the ability to go out and purchase policies that are 13-15% more expensive, when a better deal comes along, why are we even considering paying for their health care in the first place?
johndodrill 2 years ago
PLEASE VIEW MY CHANNEL. I'm a chick who reviews sci fi movies and talks about playing WoW.
SciFlicksReviews 2 years ago
if the CBO seriously says in its report that premiums will decrease dramatically, either they're biased towards the Dems or extremely dumb.
whoo689 2 years ago
Hilarious! 9 months ago, when the CBO did an analysis of an early Dem plan and said it would increase the deficit, the GOP couldn't stop talking about how wonderful the CBO was. Now that the CBO says something they don't like, you can't stop talking about how stupid you think they are compared to your genius-tood.
toofoocactus 2 years ago
You really think I'm that petty? I'm a libertarian, not a corporatist Republican. It's always, for me, about getting facts straight and shit.
whoo689 2 years ago
This bill may increase coverage, but it won't do a damn thing about premiums. It's just more regulation, more subsidies and more bullcrap. I mean, when you tell insurers how much they can charge individuals and families yearly for out-of-pocket and require them to take in the most expensive patients, there's nowhere to go but UP for premiums! It defies economic logic and history.
How in the hell are insurers, with all these new mandates and rules, gonna be able to reduce price?
whoo689 2 years ago
All they got to do is cut their obscene CEO and top exec salaries, stop spending billions on lobbyists, rein in their ridiculous luxury TV ad budgets, fire some of the legions of lawyers and accountants they employ to comb back thru the records of anyone who actually files an expensive claim to try and find evidence that that person didn't notify them of a pre-existing conditon (even if the pre-existing condition has nothing to do w/the claim that the insurer doesn't want to pay)... etc, etc...
toofoocactus 2 years ago
Private insurers spend nearly 25% of every health care $ on admin costs. Medicare and the Veterans Health Administration and other single payer systems usually spend about 5% of every health care $ on admin. I guess you like paying that 20% extra tax for billions in bonuses for top Blue Cross and Cigna execs.
toofoocactus 2 years ago
How exactly would this bill "reduce premiums"?? Can anyone explain to me in economically smart terms what provision of the bill deals with the actual cost or price of insurance?
To my knowledge, there's no public option in the final bill as of yet, no repeal of McCarran-Ferguson, nothing to deal with the thousands of state regulations that force insurers to cover everything under the sun rather than let individual patients negotiate their plans with insurers, etc.
whoo689 2 years ago
The more healthy people you have insured... the cheaper it is.
We are seeing the opposite effect all across the nation right now because all the healthy people are losing their jobs and deciding that health care is optional... it's only the sick people that keep health care... which makes prices rise on average.
oh... and McCarran-Ferguson was repealed in the House... bipartisan too.... only 19 voted against it.
daved314 2 years ago
Right on. Well said. I sometimes get the feeling that all the anti-reform people either never had to pay for their own health care or never knew anybody w/a serious illness. Health care is 17% of the economy and it's an incredibly complicated 17%. I don't want to have to try and puzzle through the bushwa that corporate lawyers have written, I just want to buy reasonable, reliable health insurance.
toofoocactus 2 years ago
Hm. Interesting. I wonder why even MSNBC hasn't really covered the McCarran-Ferguson House repeal (or at least channels like Mox News were too lazy to upload videos about it).
To an extent, you're right. However, with the introduction of millions of expensive folks with preexisting conditions, it seems like this effect would at least be partially offset, if not by a whole lot just by nature of how expensive preexisting condition folks are.
whoo689 2 years ago
You really want to let individual patients negotiate their plans w/insurers w/out any govt regulations forcing insurers to offer you certain minimum coverage? You really want to waste months of your life trying to puzzle through the complicated legalese insurers throw at you?
These companies employ armies of lawyers and bureacrats to buffalo customers and docs. That's why private insurers admin costs are 5x what Medicare and the VA's admin costs are.
toofoocactus 2 years ago
Well, it seems that overzealous bureaucrats who care more about simply 'covering people' than efficiency or keeping costs low are actually in a big way driving up the insurance costs. Even if you take in all the other cost factors that single-payer advocates often cite, it's still a substantial factor. If an insurer has to take into account ALL these various treatments, why wouldn't they design their premiums to meet that cost?
whoo689 2 years ago
I think at the very least, if you're gonna require that insurers cover so much in even the basic plans, they should make it VOLUNTARY for consumers to choose this stuff, and consumers who want certain things in or out of their plan can hopefully reach some sort of agreement with the insurer and opt out of the gov't-determined plan(s). For example, prenatal care. Men obviously don't need it. If a woman wants it in her plan, so be it. But if a man wants to pay less and not have it in there...
whoo689 2 years ago
I'm not so sure about the complicated legalese point, either. I mean, in other complicated industries like finance, you don't have to be an expert to open a checking account or get a loan from a bank. All you have to do is shop and compare from the various banks or loan terms. Now, if you wanna be EXACTLY precise, you can try to read the legalese. But for the most part it's not that necessary.
It doesn't seem like insurers would need to tell you a whole lot about certain plan terms.
whoo689 2 years ago
Maybe for some treatments rather than others, there would be more complicated rules. But I don't think any informed, intelligent consumer would have too much trouble figuring it out. And perhaps we can regulate against excessively complex rules.
My main concern on this particular matter is choice and competition. If premiums and cost weren't a factor, and it was easy to understand your coverage, wouldn't you rather be able to decide what in particular you want covered rather than gov't?
whoo689 2 years ago
@whoo689
Your whole argument is bogus because you left out the fact that insurance is a for profit business. Cost will never come down, so long as each health care provider, hospital chains and equipment manufactures are for profit business. They will always find a way to beat the street by a penny and they will use every trick, including denying care, to do that.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
The whole issue of state gov'ts deciding "Well, you insurers have to cover this and that and that" seems like simple gov't paternalism, perhaps even patronizing because they're assuming we consumers are either too dumb to know what we want or too dumb to negotiate with the insurers for our OWN shit.
Let the market and consumers decide more of the healthcare industry, not gov't. I assure you there will be at least some positive changes. HC can't possibly be a regulation-efficient industry.
whoo689 2 years ago
If it were, it's one of the first, and that's kind of suspicious. With just about everything else, an increase in choice and competition and decrease in silly rules tends to reduce costs and prices in the long run.
whoo689 2 years ago
I watched the entire thing, it was nice to see a *few* Republicans that didnt have their heads up their asses and was willing to concede on a few topics after hearing the counter ideas and the reasons why their ideas would fail...
it was also fun as usual listening to the same bullshit fail talking points and hearing them drone on over and over about how "the american people" wants something as if all of "the american people" want anything. some of americans, is not "the american people".
rdrakken 2 years ago
@rdrakken With the public option the majority of Americans DO want the health bill to pass! Without the public option the majority of Americans DON'T want this bill to pass.
scorpionkings 2 years ago
You got it! Americans want Congress to get something done. We're tired of double-digit health insurance premium increases every year. It's killing American business because the rest of the world's costs are half or a third as much and are increasing only half as much.
toofoocactus 2 years ago
The republicans can easily lie to their constituents and get away with it. But not to a smart guy that has this thing called FACTs on his side!
gual123 2 years ago
yep. unfortunately, his facts ain't the same as every one elses. after he finished, the news readers showed the chart. CBO says it will go up 13%. them facts is stubborn things.....
flcook26 2 years ago
@ flcook26 [citation needed]
For the vast majority of of Americans (those in group policies or 83% of workers) the CBO says the premiums would go down by 1-3%. The 13% you cite would only be for 17% of workers and the increase would be because they are in nongroup plans and they *would be getting better benefits*. (see table 1 of the CBO report)
Fact check your statements before you spout off in a elitist way please.
daved314 2 years ago
Nice. Thanks for going to the trouble to chase down the exact details. Republicans just want to keep the status quo w/annual double digit increases in health care premiums and huge profits for private insurers. So they try to confuse things by making up fact-free crap and throwing it into the middle of discussions. Anything to keep their corporate contributors happy!
toofoocactus 2 years ago
Hilarious! The news readers showed that the CBO says that the premiums will stay the same or drop for the same insurance. They'll go up if you get a better insurance plan. If you're gonna make up bs, try to pick something that wasn't put out on national TV the same day.
toofoocactus 2 years ago
Another way to say "not factually accurate" would be "you're a lying son of a bitch Lamar"
LakerKev 2 years ago
President Obama said that in a way that didn't cause the media geese to get all hissy and outraged. Go Big O!
toofoocactus 2 years ago
Facts? Who needs those?
Mernie9 2 years ago
Lamar is my Senator, unfortunately. Complete douchebag.
rkeppler3633 2 years ago
He's almost as dumb as Cantor. I love it that Alexander chose to lie about what the Congressional Budget Office said about premium costs for the same health care benefits... when President Obama had just talked about that and had it the CBO quote lying right in front of him. That was classic!
toofoocactus 2 years ago
universal health care is the only way
marniespeaks 2 years ago
You're claim to be a millionaire Las Vegas businessman who LOVES it that the "largest five health insurance companies posted a 56 percent gain in 2009 profits over 2008. The insurers including Wellpoint, UnitedHealth, Cigna, Aetna and Humana, which cover the majority of Americans with insurance." You're a businessman who loves paying double digit increases in health care premiums EVERY year? You're an OUT-OF-businessman, maybe. And you're a dweeb who calls the Army a "playground".
toofoocactus 2 years ago
Hmmm, the Founding Father were Bible thumping gun toters, I'll stick with them over anyone today.
HereinLasVegas 2 years ago
Hahahaha! We're talking about President Obama's smacking down the GOP for claiming that the Congressional Budget Office said premiums would go up for the exact same insurance under the proposed Democratic plans. And all you got is some weird non sequitur about Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. Let's get back to you claiming to be a "businessman" who thinks it's great for your business that health care premiums go up double digits EVERY YEAR.
toofoocactus 2 years ago
YOu might want to read the comment I replied to idiot.
Costs are being driven up deliberatetly though gov res and meddeling so the socialist can justify taking it over.
Nothing is free, it has to be paid by some one. The problem is this is being applied to our debt, we'll never be able to pay it back and are goig to default at some point
this is just not sustainable.
You think things ar rough now? Wait till that happens.
HereinLasVegas 2 years ago
BITCHSLAP. republicans get it wrong again.
genghis6l99 2 years ago
Bitch slap those GOP idiots. Mr. President
doink1422 2 years ago 3
I can't believe I'm seeing this. It blows my mind. This is just...weird.
ctw005 2 years ago
I don't want to buy anything.......
You owe us for the taxes you guys take
PersonalJesus348 2 years ago
The government owes us because they taxes? So you think this country would function without taxes?
crtnyevans 2 years ago
where did I say "no taxes"?
sometimes I wonder if people know how to read.
PersonalJesus348 2 years ago
Well are you saying that the government owes us free healthcare because they take taxes?
crtnyevans 2 years ago
Not saying its free either. I'm saying end the illegal wars and take care of your citizenry America!
PersonalJesus348 2 years ago
it's great this is televised, obama calls out all their bullshit
nt0xik8ed 2 years ago 5
@nt0xik8ed
They have no rebuddle because they know its bullshit, too.
HaloedG 2 years ago
ha, i never thought of that. good one. lol
nt0xik8ed 2 years ago
He shot the entire House GOP caucus down all afternoon in Baltimore -- nailed them when they lied about the Congressional Budget Office saying that premiums would rise for the exact same insurance, slapped em around when they tried to claim that nobody needed health insurance cause they could go to the emergency room if they got sick. Obama's WICKED GOOD at slapping down bs!
toofoocactus 2 years ago 2
No, you just believe anything that comes out of his mouth.
wantwit 2 years ago
I prefer my smackdowns to include physical violence. Next time he should bitch slap him for good measure.
dafttool 2 years ago
"smack down" seriously people that label these videos need to quite watching WWE, and join the adult table.
IdidThisForYouToSee 2 years ago
Comment removed
toofoocactus 2 years ago
Obama Bitch slaped him know your place foo!
Eldrad235 2 years ago