congratulations on this very, very nice demonstration of europ. martial arts!! It is a joy to watch this! I have to admit, when I read eg. Ringecks work on wrestling I somehow puzzeld how to put these technics into practis - but watching this is truly eye-opening!!! I wish you all the best for the future - greetz from Austria.
@kaindrg Oh i know, sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't buy into the "Samurai were the ultimate warriors" crap. If more Westerners actually looked at our heritage then they would very quickly understand that our ancestors bloody knew what they were doing when it came to fighting each other. There is a reason that Europe was the greatest power the world has ever seen up until we destroyed ourselves in WWI and WWII. Japan on the other hand, meh, never really left their island.
@EvidensInsania well most asian countries were fine and didnt need to leave europe had everlasting economic and social turmoil until they discoverd the new world. i wasnt combat taht made them strong but rather the need to survive that lead the small explasions which then led to bigger expansions. actaully the japanese emissary visited venice before and had extensive trade with places as far as india.
@EvidensInsania really the samurai ninja stuff only became popular when american got hold of it. japanese before WW2 didnt really care and regard the samurai as old fashioned and bushido shit wasnt popularized until world war 2 as many code of chivalry were never really up held untill people later spoke of it romanticly(ie knightly conduct and bushido)
@kaindrg I agree with you on America getting their hands on it, but I believe that the Japanese still thought highly of Samurai unlike we Europeans did about our knights. For instance in WWII many Japanese soldiers bought cheap katanas to take with them into battle. But the thing that really bothers me is how most people consider Samurai and ninjas to be such amazing warriors while in comparison European knights were just drunk idiots blindly swinging their apparently "inferior" swords around.
@EvidensInsania that bothers me to ppl find it strange that im asian and i defend western martial arts against perceptions(false) of western. the first society that tried to bring back traditional fighting methods had little success because europeans though only moder fencing was superior because it was a nobel sport. japanese only were obsesed during world war two before the nationalist brain wash they didnt give a shit about samurais.
What is borrowed? The techniques here? No, they're actually derived from historical manuals written as far back as the 1300s. They're not borrowed from the arts you just stated.
@Caliburnis Yes, they are. The historical manuals you talk about are way to vague to explain detailed techniques like that. Besides: Don't you find it striking how much this stuff resembles the asian martial arts?
Its called "kampfringen' and it predates Jujutsu by centuries. And do you honestly think that europeans spent 1000 years swinging swords at random without ever figuring out how to use them?
This is very, very good. It is what I want my guys to look like when they wrestle. The one criticism I have is to a certain degree of modernization of techniques. The medieval double leg seems to have involved a headbutt to the stomach, and I don't remember any manual that mentions cartwheeling off of a downed opponent. I will use this video to improve my own technique and that of my students.
@sedcontra Its called Kampfringen and it predates Judo by centuries. Amazing as it may seem, teh Japanese are not the only ones to have discovered joint locks and hip throws.
There is currently as far as I know no proof that pankration (that's probably what u mean when u say that eastern and western arts go back to ancient greek) inspired the arts of the far east. Also there is high likelihood that pankration in itself was developed from ancient Egyptian/Nubian wrestling which predates pankration. And the greeks themselves claim to have been inspired and developed at least parts of their culture from egypt.
@Giagantus actaully these is a low likelyhood since its is unianimously accepted teh ppl tend to invent their own martial arts in pre modern. times one reason is that culturally grapping is universal because its the most natural. so athropologist call its Cultural Universalis. if think it is then ur happy to look at ACTAsonia's channel for greco roman martial arts reproduction. the only people the really think of african origin a black supremicists.
@kaindrg If that the case the one cannot claim (using you Cultural Universalis) that pankration (via Alexander) inspired or created the eastern martial arts as TheLoki7281 claimed. I look at that channel if there is time. Also not that Egypt is alot more than african and/or black. And it's a undeniable fact that the elder civilization influenced the greeks. Also unless there is clear descendent's the reproduction (of Greco-roman MA) will always be modern interpretations. Adn there isn't
@Giagantus actaully i looked at the egyptian paintings and the opeing grips do seeming similar to that of ancient greco roman. i under as the need for evidence but from what i can see other than the fake pacrationist douche on human weapon selling kick boxing and bjj by marketing it as somethign its not. ACTAsonias channels demonstration see little influence from the biases of modern understanding of MA even though it would be the real thing it worth checking bro
Well all humans are built the same way essentially so it's no surprise that the arts look so similiar, there are only so many ways to break an arm for instance.
@sedcontra The ringen techniques shown in this video are recorded in several medieval German manuscripts. The master whose techniques are most often cited was a wrestling master called Ott. His techniques are described in the Von Danzig manuscript, among others. One can also find it Talhoffer (1467) and Ringeck (1440).
Actually they're good at their own indigenous, natively developed martial arts which we know about through dozens of historical manuals written by masters in the period. :)
This really makes me want to visit Poland! I thought every aspect of this video was impressive but I was especially enterested in the lifting takedowns. Very good work.
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Nice Job! could you recommend any books on the subject? a book that shows the techniques like the manuscripts?
crayonman09 2 months ago
congratulations on this very, very nice demonstration of europ. martial arts!! It is a joy to watch this! I have to admit, when I read eg. Ringecks work on wrestling I somehow puzzeld how to put these technics into practis - but watching this is truly eye-opening!!! I wish you all the best for the future - greetz from Austria.
PescesNonMortuum 5 months ago
waht is this music ? its pretty epic
kaindrg 8 months ago
@kaindrg the music is from "the witcher" soundtrack
title : The lesser of two evils
AcidbornSniper 2 months ago
Dont u love how proper marketing, japanese animes, the mystic east,and crappy movie sword choreography give ppl misconcetions :D
kaindrg 9 months ago
@kaindrg Oh i know, sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't buy into the "Samurai were the ultimate warriors" crap. If more Westerners actually looked at our heritage then they would very quickly understand that our ancestors bloody knew what they were doing when it came to fighting each other. There is a reason that Europe was the greatest power the world has ever seen up until we destroyed ourselves in WWI and WWII. Japan on the other hand, meh, never really left their island.
EvidensInsania 9 months ago
@EvidensInsania well most asian countries were fine and didnt need to leave europe had everlasting economic and social turmoil until they discoverd the new world. i wasnt combat taht made them strong but rather the need to survive that lead the small explasions which then led to bigger expansions. actaully the japanese emissary visited venice before and had extensive trade with places as far as india.
kaindrg 9 months ago
@EvidensInsania really the samurai ninja stuff only became popular when american got hold of it. japanese before WW2 didnt really care and regard the samurai as old fashioned and bushido shit wasnt popularized until world war 2 as many code of chivalry were never really up held untill people later spoke of it romanticly(ie knightly conduct and bushido)
kaindrg 9 months ago
@kaindrg I agree with you on America getting their hands on it, but I believe that the Japanese still thought highly of Samurai unlike we Europeans did about our knights. For instance in WWII many Japanese soldiers bought cheap katanas to take with them into battle. But the thing that really bothers me is how most people consider Samurai and ninjas to be such amazing warriors while in comparison European knights were just drunk idiots blindly swinging their apparently "inferior" swords around.
EvidensInsania 9 months ago
@EvidensInsania that bothers me to ppl find it strange that im asian and i defend western martial arts against perceptions(false) of western. the first society that tried to bring back traditional fighting methods had little success because europeans though only moder fencing was superior because it was a nobel sport. japanese only were obsesed during world war two before the nationalist brain wash they didnt give a shit about samurais.
kaindrg 9 months ago
Ya, also it's obviously mostly "borrowed" from jujutsu, kenjutsu and wrestling.
razorl4f 11 months ago
@razorl4f
What is borrowed? The techniques here? No, they're actually derived from historical manuals written as far back as the 1300s. They're not borrowed from the arts you just stated.
Caliburnis 10 months ago
@Caliburnis would schwieng of w/e its called from switzerland be related?
kaindrg 9 months ago
@Caliburnis Yes, they are. The historical manuals you talk about are way to vague to explain detailed techniques like that. Besides: Don't you find it striking how much this stuff resembles the asian martial arts?
razorl4f 4 days ago
@razorl4f
Its called "kampfringen' and it predates Jujutsu by centuries. And do you honestly think that europeans spent 1000 years swinging swords at random without ever figuring out how to use them?
temmy9 10 months ago
Absolutely fantastic ringen work! Best to you!
hotspurschool 1 year ago
This is very, very good. It is what I want my guys to look like when they wrestle. The one criticism I have is to a certain degree of modernization of techniques. The medieval double leg seems to have involved a headbutt to the stomach, and I don't remember any manual that mentions cartwheeling off of a downed opponent. I will use this video to improve my own technique and that of my students.
Marxbruder505 1 year ago
Wow, European knights sure were good at Judo.
sedcontra 1 year ago
Comment removed
temmy9 1 year ago
@sedcontra Its called Kampfringen and it predates Judo by centuries. Amazing as it may seem, teh Japanese are not the only ones to have discovered joint locks and hip throws.
temmy9 1 year ago
@temmy9 s far as I know, all western and eastern martial arts go back to the ancient Greeks...
TheLoki7281 1 year ago
@TheLoki7281
There is currently as far as I know no proof that pankration (that's probably what u mean when u say that eastern and western arts go back to ancient greek) inspired the arts of the far east. Also there is high likelihood that pankration in itself was developed from ancient Egyptian/Nubian wrestling which predates pankration. And the greeks themselves claim to have been inspired and developed at least parts of their culture from egypt.
Giagantus 1 year ago
@Giagantus jep you are right..
TheLoki7281 1 year ago
@Giagantus actaully these is a low likelyhood since its is unianimously accepted teh ppl tend to invent their own martial arts in pre modern. times one reason is that culturally grapping is universal because its the most natural. so athropologist call its Cultural Universalis. if think it is then ur happy to look at ACTAsonia's channel for greco roman martial arts reproduction. the only people the really think of african origin a black supremicists.
kaindrg 9 months ago
@kaindrg If that the case the one cannot claim (using you Cultural Universalis) that pankration (via Alexander) inspired or created the eastern martial arts as TheLoki7281 claimed. I look at that channel if there is time. Also not that Egypt is alot more than african and/or black. And it's a undeniable fact that the elder civilization influenced the greeks. Also unless there is clear descendent's the reproduction (of Greco-roman MA) will always be modern interpretations. Adn there isn't
Giagantus 8 months ago
@Giagantus actaully i looked at the egyptian paintings and the opeing grips do seeming similar to that of ancient greco roman. i under as the need for evidence but from what i can see other than the fake pacrationist douche on human weapon selling kick boxing and bjj by marketing it as somethign its not. ACTAsonias channels demonstration see little influence from the biases of modern understanding of MA even though it would be the real thing it worth checking bro
kaindrg 8 months ago
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@Giagantus excuse my grammar
kaindrg 9 months ago
@temmy9
Well all humans are built the same way essentially so it's no surprise that the arts look so similiar, there are only so many ways to break an arm for instance.
Giagantus 1 year ago 6
@sedcontra The ringen techniques shown in this video are recorded in several medieval German manuscripts. The master whose techniques are most often cited was a wrestling master called Ott. His techniques are described in the Von Danzig manuscript, among others. One can also find it Talhoffer (1467) and Ringeck (1440).
Kunstdesfechtens 1 year ago
@sedcontra
Actually they're good at their own indigenous, natively developed martial arts which we know about through dozens of historical manuals written by masters in the period. :)
Caliburnis 10 months ago
@sedcontra read the book titled "Medieval Combat"
TurboRatownik 9 months ago
make a new onr
jediknight2694 1 year ago
exactly eddiedaskull. there are grappling styles from all over the world in china germany switzerland portugal. not just the japanese.
pochazet 1 year ago
as we can see the japanese don't have a monopoly on throws or sword skills
eddiedaskull 1 year ago 14
Great action! looks like a good presentation.
magnushagelberg 1 year ago
this is wrestling for swords and weapons of thse kinds.
bassreeves1965 2 years ago
Wrestling interpretations done by wrestlers what an awesome thought. So often the interpretations are done by scholars without the backgrounf
jediknight2694 2 years ago
awesome move at 1:03!
When are you guys are coming to Brazil? =D
cerkuenik 2 years ago
this move catched my eye too, tried to copy it, but with random result
KrapikMastah 2 years ago
This is really great. Would really want to train with you guys.
johjoz 2 years ago
Awesome! You have given me goosebumps!
MrsBlood84 2 years ago
makes me wanna study to old treatises. =)
darkcolmar 2 years ago
This is great.
Zwerchhau 2 years ago
Great work fellas.
MattABryant 2 years ago
Amazing! Who is the head instructor? how do i contact him?
kitsaccount 2 years ago
nice!
The Witcher soundtrack!
tiamat9989 2 years ago
Excellent!
SwordAndBuckler 3 years ago
Absolutely amazing. Five stars and favorited! This video actually had me worried about the person being 'acted upon' a couple times!
Caliburnis 3 years ago
Yer good move saving this one to your favourites. I'm putting this on favourites as well. Great film : )
Drzacksmith 2 years ago
This really makes me want to visit Poland! I thought every aspect of this video was impressive but I was especially enterested in the lifting takedowns. Very good work.
HappyOsotogari 3 years ago
Well done. Very cool vid.
Kunstdesfechtens 3 years ago
Very nice!
swordlaches 3 years ago
You guys have done it again.
/Anders
taffy1975 3 years ago
Sweet!!!
marozzo 3 years ago