А вот это проект мне нравится) Я думаю что он вполне реален) Можно добавить в конструкцию 2 ролика, сверку и снизу, чтобы точнее направлять шарики в трубу. Я так понимаю что шарики будут плотно прилегать к стенкам трубы?
@2515564 "And here is a project I like) I think it's quite possible) may be added in the construction of two rollers, and a reconciliation from the bottom, to better guide the balls into the pipe. I understand that the balls will fit snugly to the walls of the tube?" Thank you. I agree that two rollers would help; they could also replace the turbine. The balls would have to let some water by as they go up.
@wyrrox Well, the turbine in the video is just an example/symbolic that energy can be obtained from the motion of the stringed beads. The model depicted clearly improves by adding pulleys, mentioned in earlier comments, at those points at the top and bottom, reducing friction and snagging. You are absolutiely right that making those very pulleys the turbines would seem the most efficient. But before getting into optimization, I'd like to see a proof/disproof of concept... :)
@efrow So, inside a capillary tube, there is no up or down for an object less dense than water? If that is true, it may render this thought experiment pointless, but it seems to be a very interesting property in its own right for other thought experiments...
@adanieltorres frankly, I dont know what is the purpose of this thought experiment. if it is merely a brain gymnastics, then it is a another good way of showing it is not possible to get energy from nowhere. but if u sincerely believe that through certain manipulations u will be able to get energy from thin air, then it is useless.
all engines are machines to convert one kind energy to another. car engines convert fuels chemical energy to mechanical...
@efrow Note that the video is one from a channel called "Thought Experiments". And realize that I'm not claiming to break any laws of physics but to help keep physics alertness. Trying to brush the experiment aside with poor or simplistic explanations speaks more to mental laziness than to the uselessness of the experiment. If not, what is the purpose of having pendulums, or miniature sterling engines, on desks?
@efrow I have to disagree with you about the usefulness of these types of thought experiments. The fact is that there is no proof that perpetual motion is impossible. These types of mental gymnastics help keep us on our game and expand our perceptions. People lose their ability to think divergently the more they learn about traditional methods, but most of scientific advancement, depending on how you look at it, relies on people being good at divergent thinking. That is what this exercises.
Nice thought experiment, but the reason a capillary tube works is because the capillary force (aka surface tension) is larger than the gravity force...allowing the water to rise. This happens on small scales, which is why capillary tubes are tiny. Unfortunately the bouyancy force is related to the gravity force, without gravity there is no bouyancy. So if these tiny spheres do manage to float to the top of the tube, they wont be able to break past surface tension force at the top of the tube.
@kezman2000 Would the weight of the spheres outside the tube, helping to pull the sphere at the top of the capillary tube, be sufficient to break that surface tension?
@efrow I hope you are not using "physics" as the basis for dissuading me from having thought experiments to help understand physics... :) Your "explanation" for instance fails to account for the fact that the same object can freefall when above water, and float upwards when under water. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you're not explaining the "physics". In other words, show your work.
This could actually work on a very large scale if everything was inside a vacuum. If you could suck on the tube to draw water up, put your finger on it and somehow remove all of the air inside of the chamber, if you lifted your finger off the tube the water level would still stay at the top of the tube.
@BRyanS72 I'm guessing that by large scale you mean closed non capillary tube with a vacuum at the top of it. There would be no easy way for anything going up inside it to come out the top. The key of this thought experiment is being able to have two levels of water with openings at the top as well as at the bottom. Capillarity is the means to achieve that.
a good idea but i think that the friction needed to turn the turbine would be to great for the tiny beads turn, friction is the only thing that prevents the possibility of a propetual motion machine it would need to be oil so often
@rewii93 Forgetting friction, I think the energy would be coming from the water, thus lowering its temperature, until freezing. With friction, the heat should go back in the water, making the net lowering of temperature slower, though inevitably lower. As to whether the work can beat friction to begin with, that's the crux of this thought experiment. :)
@adanieltorres I think I just understood your invention ;P. The energy doesn't come from the water going up, right ? The energy come from the balls that float on the water and fall with the gravity, producing a constant motion... am I getting this all wrong ?
@rewii93 You're right. The water is at a standstill. The motion comes from the balls floating up in the water, pulling up the ones behind them, and the balls falling down in the air, pulling down the ones behind them.
@adanieltorres That is actually freakin cool !!! With a quick glance, it looks like eternal motion could be achieved (but I'm a noob so...). But I really doubt the efficiency of the system: would it really produce energy, if any ? For it to work it has to be very small.
@rewii93 I'm glad you like the idea! Size is limited to one at which capillary action kicks in, but in the age of nano technology, any small energy may be enough to run a nano factory. :) Also, I like to try to imagine millions put together. Thought experiments are more about possibility than usefulness, but sometimes they surprise us.
it`s not possible, yes the water will be lifted all the way to the top of the capillar tube, but that`s it, it wont go any hier than that, it will simply get to the rimm once and stay there , it wont overflow aut of the pipe becouse it woudent have anything to adere to
@trombonista92 The water is not expected to go anywhere but to the top surface. The thought experiment is about the beads floating to the top of the water and then being pulled overboard by the weight of the falling beads. Once at the bottom surface they would be pulled under water and back into the capillary tube by the beads floating upwards. The capillary tube's role is merely to create two levels of water, but not to have any flow.
if einstein was born so long ago how many other Einsteins have we had but do not know of because they have been bought and their ideas been given brand names?? Makes you think doesn't it!!! Are we just trying to invent things that have been reesearched? or just hoping someone had missed something???
@basilenglish I love thinking about things, especially coming up with proposals for things on which most would give up. So whether things have been accomplished before, or whether they are longshots, or even impossible, I still have a great time thinking about them. If the results of my having fun thinking can help make the world a better place, all the better. But you are right, we're trying to come up with things that others have either missed or kept from us.
@adanieltorres I like the part where you say "kept from us"part, that gives us hope!! Mmmm, I wonder how many officials scan the net for already invented secret stuff, just in case someone gets too close....... do they then disappear ???
i do realize that we are similar, as we will not proceed to try build something that has already been proved not to work, but will prod at it things until we find out someone has tried it!!, and that leaves me to the conclusion that most things have been tried before,
@basilenglish I like to think that hardly anything has been tried. I can only envision a future in which people wonder how we lived knowing so little. :)
А вот это проект мне нравится) Я думаю что он вполне реален) Можно добавить в конструкцию 2 ролика, сверку и снизу, чтобы точнее направлять шарики в трубу. Я так понимаю что шарики будут плотно прилегать к стенкам трубы?
2515564 2 months ago
@2515564 "And here is a project I like) I think it's quite possible) may be added in the construction of two rollers, and a reconciliation from the bottom, to better guide the balls into the pipe. I understand that the balls will fit snugly to the walls of the tube?" Thank you. I agree that two rollers would help; they could also replace the turbine. The balls would have to let some water by as they go up.
adanieltorres 2 months ago
Wouldn't it be easier if the there are two turbines on at the points where the balls go over and under the cylinder?
wyrrox 8 months ago
@wyrrox Well, the turbine in the video is just an example/symbolic that energy can be obtained from the motion of the stringed beads. The model depicted clearly improves by adding pulleys, mentioned in earlier comments, at those points at the top and bottom, reducing friction and snagging. You are absolutiely right that making those very pulleys the turbines would seem the most efficient. But before getting into optimization, I'd like to see a proof/disproof of concept... :)
adanieltorres 8 months ago
if there is capillarity- no buoyancy, if buoyancy- no capillarity
efrow 9 months ago
@efrow So, inside a capillary tube, there is no up or down for an object less dense than water? If that is true, it may render this thought experiment pointless, but it seems to be a very interesting property in its own right for other thought experiments...
adanieltorres 9 months ago
@adanieltorres frankly, I dont know what is the purpose of this thought experiment. if it is merely a brain gymnastics, then it is a another good way of showing it is not possible to get energy from nowhere. but if u sincerely believe that through certain manipulations u will be able to get energy from thin air, then it is useless.
all engines are machines to convert one kind energy to another. car engines convert fuels chemical energy to mechanical...
efrow 9 months ago
@efrow Note that the video is one from a channel called "Thought Experiments". And realize that I'm not claiming to break any laws of physics but to help keep physics alertness. Trying to brush the experiment aside with poor or simplistic explanations speaks more to mental laziness than to the uselessness of the experiment. If not, what is the purpose of having pendulums, or miniature sterling engines, on desks?
adanieltorres 9 months ago
@efrow I have to disagree with you about the usefulness of these types of thought experiments. The fact is that there is no proof that perpetual motion is impossible. These types of mental gymnastics help keep us on our game and expand our perceptions. People lose their ability to think divergently the more they learn about traditional methods, but most of scientific advancement, depending on how you look at it, relies on people being good at divergent thinking. That is what this exercises.
thesourceofx 3 months ago
Nice thought experiment, but the reason a capillary tube works is because the capillary force (aka surface tension) is larger than the gravity force...allowing the water to rise. This happens on small scales, which is why capillary tubes are tiny. Unfortunately the bouyancy force is related to the gravity force, without gravity there is no bouyancy. So if these tiny spheres do manage to float to the top of the tube, they wont be able to break past surface tension force at the top of the tube.
kezman2000 9 months ago 2
@kezman2000 Would the weight of the spheres outside the tube, helping to pull the sphere at the top of the capillary tube, be sufficient to break that surface tension?
adanieltorres 9 months ago
@adanieltorres weight of spheres outside= that of inside. static equilibrium. for this reason there is physics, not to bullshit urself
efrow 9 months ago
@efrow I hope you are not using "physics" as the basis for dissuading me from having thought experiments to help understand physics... :) Your "explanation" for instance fails to account for the fact that the same object can freefall when above water, and float upwards when under water. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you're not explaining the "physics". In other words, show your work.
adanieltorres 9 months ago
This could actually work on a very large scale if everything was inside a vacuum. If you could suck on the tube to draw water up, put your finger on it and somehow remove all of the air inside of the chamber, if you lifted your finger off the tube the water level would still stay at the top of the tube.
BRyanS72 1 year ago
@BRyanS72 I'm guessing that by large scale you mean closed non capillary tube with a vacuum at the top of it. There would be no easy way for anything going up inside it to come out the top. The key of this thought experiment is being able to have two levels of water with openings at the top as well as at the bottom. Capillarity is the means to achieve that.
adanieltorres 1 year ago
a good idea but i think that the friction needed to turn the turbine would be to great for the tiny beads turn, friction is the only thing that prevents the possibility of a propetual motion machine it would need to be oil so often
waldowatcherno298 1 year ago
@waldowatcherno298 Thanks. It could be a really tiney turbine, though I'd be happy if only the beads turned, with no turbine!
adanieltorres 1 year ago
The only problem with this is that capillary tubes are so small that you could barely fit anything in them.
Catz0125 1 year ago
@Catz0125 I consider it terrific news that someone thinks that the size is the only problem. :) Yes, we're talking tiny beads, and tiny everything...
adanieltorres 1 year ago
If any energy would be produced... I think it would be lost to friction... right ?
rewii93 1 year ago
@rewii93 Forgetting friction, I think the energy would be coming from the water, thus lowering its temperature, until freezing. With friction, the heat should go back in the water, making the net lowering of temperature slower, though inevitably lower. As to whether the work can beat friction to begin with, that's the crux of this thought experiment. :)
adanieltorres 1 year ago
@adanieltorres I think I just understood your invention ;P. The energy doesn't come from the water going up, right ? The energy come from the balls that float on the water and fall with the gravity, producing a constant motion... am I getting this all wrong ?
rewii93 1 year ago
@rewii93 You're right. The water is at a standstill. The motion comes from the balls floating up in the water, pulling up the ones behind them, and the balls falling down in the air, pulling down the ones behind them.
adanieltorres 1 year ago
@adanieltorres That is actually freakin cool !!! With a quick glance, it looks like eternal motion could be achieved (but I'm a noob so...). But I really doubt the efficiency of the system: would it really produce energy, if any ? For it to work it has to be very small.
rewii93 1 year ago
@rewii93 I'm glad you like the idea! Size is limited to one at which capillary action kicks in, but in the age of nano technology, any small energy may be enough to run a nano factory. :) Also, I like to try to imagine millions put together. Thought experiments are more about possibility than usefulness, but sometimes they surprise us.
adanieltorres 1 year ago
@adanieltorres That's the spirit !!! ;)
rewii93 1 year ago
it`s not possible, yes the water will be lifted all the way to the top of the capillar tube, but that`s it, it wont go any hier than that, it will simply get to the rimm once and stay there , it wont overflow aut of the pipe becouse it woudent have anything to adere to
trombonista92 1 year ago
@trombonista92 The water is not expected to go anywhere but to the top surface. The thought experiment is about the beads floating to the top of the water and then being pulled overboard by the weight of the falling beads. Once at the bottom surface they would be pulled under water and back into the capillary tube by the beads floating upwards. The capillary tube's role is merely to create two levels of water, but not to have any flow.
adanieltorres 1 year ago
if einstein was born so long ago how many other Einsteins have we had but do not know of because they have been bought and their ideas been given brand names?? Makes you think doesn't it!!! Are we just trying to invent things that have been reesearched? or just hoping someone had missed something???
basilenglish 1 year ago
@basilenglish I love thinking about things, especially coming up with proposals for things on which most would give up. So whether things have been accomplished before, or whether they are longshots, or even impossible, I still have a great time thinking about them. If the results of my having fun thinking can help make the world a better place, all the better. But you are right, we're trying to come up with things that others have either missed or kept from us.
adanieltorres 1 year ago
@adanieltorres I like the part where you say "kept from us"part, that gives us hope!! Mmmm, I wonder how many officials scan the net for already invented secret stuff, just in case someone gets too close....... do they then disappear ???
basilenglish 1 year ago
@basilenglish I would rather think that they would make a generous offer. ;)
adanieltorres 1 year ago
i do realize that we are similar, as we will not proceed to try build something that has already been proved not to work, but will prod at it things until we find out someone has tried it!!, and that leaves me to the conclusion that most things have been tried before,
basilenglish 1 year ago
@basilenglish I like to think that hardly anything has been tried. I can only envision a future in which people wonder how we lived knowing so little. :)
adanieltorres 1 year ago