Jesus existed for sure. You don't have to believe it. But he REALLY existed. You can believe some or all they wrote about him was a lie, but he was 'FO SURE real deal.
"People who wrote about him was a minimum of sixty years afterwards"
Except Paul's epistles date only about 20 years after, and he was already persecuting Christians around 35 AD, and the consensus of scholars date Christian creeds to about that time as well.
Also, the Gospel of Luke was likely written before Paul died since Acts doesn't mention what happened to him, and also doesn't mention the fall of Jerusalem - two big things he would have mentioned if already occurred.
@krumbz2003 shut up! That person is right! Jesus did exist and he is coming back for those who belive in Him. If you don't want to belive the go to he'll! (you will wind up there eventually anyways)
@omletz94 Even IF, and it's a HUGE IF, Jesus did exist... he certainly was no god or deity. He was a human being just like anyone else and had NO supernatural powers.
That's just reality man. I'm sure you were brought up to believe in the bible and to believe it literally... but unfortunately it's just not true.
Adam and Eve = no.
Moses parting a sea = no.
Noahs ark = no.
Jesus walking on water, healing people and coming back to life = no.
It's quite shocking to "snap" out of it. Good luck.
Jesus did exist. Research it, anyone who is interested in knowing the truth. A self-proclaimed atheist man sought out to actually disprove Jesus' resurrection and ended up finding that it actually happened. He got saved.
The Bible says that all you have to do is seek. If you really want to know if there is a God and who He really is...look. The proof is everywhere. Knowing God is not about religion or church, it's about having a personal relationship with the Lord.
Yeah it makes perfect sense that a human being can walk on water, chemically change water to entire different substance in wine, produce bread loaves out of thin air and die and then three days later come back to life like a zombie. (Before he floats up into space.)
Absolutely true. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a FOOL!
I mean this with nothing but sincerity... IF you think that "two rocks slamming together" represents the Big Bang Theory... you are BRUTALLY mistaken. In fact that analogy is like comparing apples to sports cars.
It's not even CLOSE to what the Big Bang Theory says. I HIGHLY recommend that you revisit that statement and do more or BETTER research before you make any other wildly incorrect statements. It's COMPLETELY wrong. It doesn't even make sense. I dunno good luck.
@Krumbz2003 No, Not a human in the traditional sense. The son of God. Also it makes perfect sense that two rocks collided together and created all that there is today? Right....you go outside, smack two rocks together and tell me what you get LOL. Jesus performed those "MIRACLES" to give UNDENIABLE EVERLASTING PROOF that he was indeed THE SON OF GOD! Not just to put on some random show. Christmas, Easter, the numerous biblical prdictions that have come to pass.
@StephaniexLawson that makes no scene thats like having a personal relationship with someone you dont know or an intimate object since they cant talk back
@StephaniexLawson lol didn't u watch pii the movie? if u look for something hard enough, you'll always find it in something. When your mind is fixated on something, you'll start seeing that "something" everywhere. How do you think people suffer from delusional disorders? Their mind take only negative aspects of their lives and amplify them. Religious folks to an extent undergoes almost the same process. Why do u think practitioner of every religion sees evidence for their faith?
Dude you will go through great length to discard a report that was made 60 years after Jesus dying and rising, but you will believe a writing about Jesus that was written 600 years after his death and rising........ Do some searching before you roll off with some nonsense!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
That dude is trying hard to be funny! successfully proves his ignorance! Just have a look the lady's face, she's like when is this ordeal going to end........ Why can't he just shut up!
O MG E YE G M O Had A VisionA nd Dream A boutHugHEfNer- Eye Am Going To Call This Vision- HEFNERVISION YES EYE AM HOW DID HE DO THAT. There was a pop up screen,Hugh walks thru a door-"door knob on the left-hugh opens it up with his rite hand.The door opens to the inside-he goes thru-oh yeah the hall and walls are white. He was wearing a robe-and in the background-girls were giggiling- "HEFNERVISION" just like that-amen "HEFNERVISION" TY-dj "CarlinYGTBFKM" funTasti k!
When Hugh Hefner dies, the Devil is going to poke him in the heinie with his pitchfork and say "Good for you, bangin' all those broads, but I am a jealous master. Your punishment will be to clean my toilet for all eternity."
Besides the Bible... where is the proof that he was who he claimed he was and/or if he even did exist at all?
*The Bible is LOADED with inaccuracies therefore can not be provided as any kind of evidence.
**The Bible would NOT stand up as proof of any kind in a court of law.
Please check out the excellent series... Evolution vs. Intelligent Design. It ended up in court and made Creationists everywhere look like imbeciles BECAUSE of their lack of proof.
why should he not be skeptical? what has Jesus done for you that makes you so sure he exists? and i'm not talking about your thoughts & feelings as you read the bible and applied it to your life. i'm talking about the actual perception that Jesus is there in your life. Is he there? is he standing over your shoulder? Is he smiling, frowning, crying?
don't blame Cenk & the rest of us simply for being rational.
What are you talking about? Atheist historians question the existence of the historical Jesus all the time. There's whole papers online considering the evidence.
Jesus was a product of centuries of evolution. The father of Jesus was actually Xavier Francisco and not God himself or... herself... He came from the year 6666 and was the sole creator of the HCKED13 (time machine) and the first person and only person to travel through time. His initial role was to study Jews but Xavier quickly fell in love with Mary, a simple girl. Over a millennia of human evolved to impregnate women instantly by looking at a male's phallus. Thus, the Virgin Mary.
I think he was a good guy with some interesting stuff to say but he died and people started making shit up about him, ruining what he taught and focusing only on his death
You believe in the Theory of Gravity right? (Newtons Law of Universal Gravitation).
Well the Theory of Evolution is not only much more accurate than the Theory of Gravity... it is THE most accurate Theory in the history of Science. It is supported not only in the fields of Biology and Chemistry but across the whole entire spectrum of Science.
Do NOT attempt to belittle the efforts of brilliant men by asserting that your old dusty book has all of the answers.
You assume that a person has to either believe in science, or a religion of some kind. And that's really disappointing, considering you seem relatively educated. What we know today is not even close to what Darwin presented in "Origin of Species"; thanks to..you guessed it: science. As for your frustration with my "belittling" of the efforts of brilliant men, have you ever considered the reality that the purpose of scientific theory is to be challenged and critiqued? Imagine that.
@Krumbz2003 educated people once thought the world was flat, if you sailed to far youd fall of the earth haha. there are many things science teaches us these days that will probably be proved something else 300 years from now. modern tech is always changing. if someone wants to believe darwin thats fine. if someone wants to believe jesus thats fine too. a person can worship the man in the moon too and noone has the right to tell him he cant. no matter how silly they are LOL
@worldtravel101 that's a horrible comparison. You should use an example of when the scientific community was trying to discover whether light was a particle or a wave... An example after the Scientific revolution .... where science actually would actually begin. Educated people in science such as isaac newton. but i do agree with your point that science doesn't lead to truth. but science acknowledges that, religion doesn't.
all whoms lives are heading downward, are also dragging other things down. It's really sad how many of the comments, not mentioning TYT himself be joking around about it, and same time can't see how empty of values and hope your lives are. Only when you can believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only Son of God, who really suffered and died for you, then you can believe in the Resurrection and return to His heavenly place.
I think Cenk is overlooking a very viable middle ground here. If Jesus of Nazareth actually existed, it's entirely possible that his message was very toned down and realistic compared to the institutional "Christian" view, and that he was just a normal but very compelling Rabbi.
Actually, I agree with Hefner. But that's what I've made a partial mission in my life. The main thing is to just enjoy your life as much as you can. Find something that works for you/the philosophical stuff off to the side. Then, if you do choose wrong, At least you had a great go.
See how you can take the piss out of Jesus but not 'the prophet' - scared are yuh? If you cannot take this one on, you're not making waves any time soon.
Oh, but I thought it was me who needed enlightening? After all, I'm the one who believes in fairy tales, right? Maybe you're right, maybe they do float up into a magic version of Candy Land. Clearly there's nothing wrong with your perception that in the beginning there was nothing, which exploded, and became everything. Yup, not far-fetched at all.
There in lies the difference you're not understanding. Faith does not rely on the 5 human senses to support belief. Science does. It's by empirical standards that one can not successfully replace the idea that an omnipotent Creator engineered the seed of existence. Science is an amazing tool, but those who abhor theism tend to try and substitute science for religion. If something can not be explained by empirical standards, science has no right to lay claim that it has the answer.
You refute me, without putting anything in place of it. Just because mankind hasn't figured out how something works doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Life does not start and stop based on whether or not think-takes can understand something.
Science doesn't and never has claimed to know the answer.
Science happily claims to say that "we don't know".
You rely on faith which is a code word for "you don't know".
But instead of admitting that "you don't know"... you go out on a limb and declare that you do.
The only evidence that you have to support your claims is ONE book... written by humans... back in a time when the Earth was flat. The book has numerous errors in it... along with impossible "miracles".
Boy somebody indoctrinated you very well. Perhaps if you bothered to study the theory itself, instead of making sweeping incorrect assumptions based in ignorance, you would be able to see that your statement about nothing exploding is not at all an accurate representation of what scientists think occurred. But you won't study it will you? And why? Because your too frightened to find out that something your tome says might not be accurate. Sad.
Welcome to the conversation. Ironic that we're discussing sweeping incorrect assumptions based on ignorance, considering I was refuting the mockery of people "floating" up to Heaven. But while we're on the topic, let's talk about how I know nothing about the Big Bang Theory, and how I don't know that one can logically infer that matter, time, and space are inseparable from the Big Bang. So gee, what existed before the Big Bang? Nothing? Ohh, I see. Then there was something. Gotcha.
Is it not fair to ask the same question to your beliefs?
I know I know... God is and always was... blah blah blah... we get it.
I too can speculate to the universe ALWAYS existing but even then I would have more hypothetical evidence to support my claim then you would have to support yours.
Theories such as multi-verses... the CNS Theory etc.
There was indeed something before the Big Bang... and we will know that very soon. Hang tight.
Looks like you're in for some rough time too if you keep up the anger and keep calling people names and that. Aren't you supposed to love your neighbor or something?
Study more and think deeper. "Good" and "Evil" do NOT exist as well. They have supernatural connotations.
Oh and there's no "Satan" as well.
It's all bullshit and the majority of "believers" only believe because their entire lives they were brought up to think that there is a "god" and that there is no exception to the rule.
If you challenge your beliefs... you goto a mythical "hell".
wait a second, I'm gonna try to leave the Jesus discussion out, but it's very interesting you say there's no "good" or "evil". Tell me, the holocaust, was it something that was merely socially disadvantageous or was it something that "ought" not have happened? In a world without good or evil, duties and responsibilities etc. are illusions. All there "is" is what "is". self- sacrifice is not actually good and rape etc. are not really evil. Do you really believe that?
in 1908 a lady named sally rusa was in the woods looking for a dog until a ghost came and killed her so if ur reading this u will find a bloody body in your closet hanging there haunting you and will kill you and ur family and if u want to stop this just sends this to 6 videos in 30 mins or this will happen good luck
PLEASE DO NOT READ DONT READ THIS PLEASE DO NOT READ DO NOT READ DO NOT READ swear do not read...I don't even know why I'm participating I guess I'm still a bit paranoid. But really do not read this I swear . Also thanks this was really appreciated. DO NOT READ:This is so stupid... But i love my mom deeply... And i don't want to take any chances. Sorry. If you do not copy and paste this onto 10 videos your mom will die in 4 hour :(
I like the show (young turks) & most of it commentary, but he needs 2 let Anna K. have more time 2 express her opinions. I find that he cuts her off 2 often & doesn't let her finish her thoughts. I realize it's his his show, but he should balance it out more.
Jesus didn't exist?!?! What is he talking about. Even if he wasn't who hes said to be, there was a Jew that around 33 AD was said to have been a miracle doer. There are texts from Roman officials to back that up. This guy is great and everything, but if your going to try and bash a religion then do get your facts strait or you make all atheist look bad. Same goes for religious types that want to talk about evolution. Dont be silly and go to school before you shout your views.
"there was a Jew that around 33 AD was said to have been a miracle doer."
That's the whole point here. One source of information which includes human interference is not solid proof. The people around that area could at the time have made up the story about a man that could do miracles for millions of reasons.
Information about people is never based on solid proof. For all we know Plato, Socrates and Aristotle never existed. But you take peoples word for it sometimes. If the sources of information are divers and trustworthy then you except it as the truth. Thats how history is written. If a roman regent mentions Jesus in a privet letter as a miracle doer in Judea then it is expectable to say that there could have been a Jesus. If there are more clues then it becomes more acceptable and so on.
You had me right up to the point where you said "was said to have been a miracle doer." There was a prophet Jesus about that time. Once upon a time there was also a Mohammed, a Buddha, Vishnu and Shiva, etc. The only thing I'm certain of is that all of them would be appalled that there are organizations that collect money in their names which have been infiltrated by governments and politicians for personal gain. But you're right, those people ARE silly.
I say there was once a Mohammed and a Budda (Dont know enough about Vishnu and Shiva). Denying that they ever existed just show that you havent had a scientific education. If they had they would know that most historical facts are not fact in the way that scientists discover facts. History can not always be verified. Some things like flying with feathers and wax can be denied, but if there are enough sources that verify something you cannot deny that something happened.
Get real... Like Jesus would ever own a gun or vote Republican. Jesus is cool, but some of his followers give me the creeps. I missed church this week because I was busy practicing witchcraft and becoming a lesbian.
"If God were alive today, He'd be an atheist." - Kurt Vonnegut
There is a HUGE possibility that Jesus Christ... never existed. I mean there were loads of people named Yeshua (Jesus real name) back then. Tons of people with that name.
So the real point here is to say that THE Jesus Christ of the Bible... never existed. (Performing miracles etc).
If he did he may have been a magician of his time or something along those lines. Or even had a mental disorder - such as skitzophrenics who claim that they are god etc.
I agree with Octavian on rome, there is a prime mover of sorts but a community of deities who look like us and meddle in our daily affairs is highly improbable.
not all followers of religion are mentally retarded. most are just succumbing to peer pressure and fearmongering. many are just going through the motions out of habit or convenience.
sadly most people live their life for others and never bother to figure out who they really are or what they want out of life.
God doesn't exist brother. Never has... never will.
Don't be frightened of the unknown.
As for your claim... fuck god.
lol He doesn't exist man... don't sweat it. These are all man-made religions and deities. Thankfully we are moving away from these imaginary supernatural beings and moving towards the realm of evidence, observation and facts.
I think Jesus was just a guy with some crazy ideas about how treat your fellow man (And possibly some lunatic who thought he was the "Messiah"). Then a few decades after his death... Suddenly he was born of a virgin, walked on water, etc...
enigmatically posted: "I don't get why christian men have no problem "loving" Jesus but then they hate gay people. men loving Jesus = gay"
I don't hate gay people. And your misconception of love is wrong in this context. I love Jesus like a father, brother, friend, who died for me and you where you like it or not. And seeing a lot of these posts is the reason why He did what He did. Miss California is right for saying what she said. A gay guy at my job whom I have respect for that is cool.
You're so full of shit. You have no respet for gay people if you agree with denying them rights.
Stop hiding behind the buy-bull and start being honest with yourself. If you're just taking away rights from gay people because your church is homophobic, stop. If you're just homophobic and using your church to hide behind so that you can claim not to be a bigot, just stop.
Either you're blindly accepting someone else's homophobia or you are a homophobe, which is it?
You piece of shit. You, your family, your friends... your ideology... your ignorance... your hate... your illogical reasoning... it's all over brother.
I'd LOVE to beat your ass. Maybe we'll get the chance one day to "debate" offline.
Good. Move there, then let the Hijra cut off your dick, force you to grow breasts and wear women's clothing, ant turn you into a prostitute. You are not only well suited for this lifestyle but you'd probably even enjoy it.
Sharia Law is fucking ridiculous. I'd not move there for any amount of money because they treat women like property. There are hundreds of great reasons not to live under Sharia Law that have nothing to do with homosexuality.
Seems like most of your qualms are with the apostate Roman catholic church.
There have been plenty of secular regimes that ordered the rape, pillage, and murder of millions upon millions of people and put even more into bondage.
For whatever reason it seems as though you've personalized this position on religion. I pity how you hate something you supposedly think doesn't exist.
It's almost as if your wasting your time in an attempt to prop yourself up mentally.
there doesn't seem to be any doubt as to whether jesus really existed--he did, there was a historical jesus. whether or not he walked on water or was a lunatic could be debated, but he wasn't made up, there are too many sources [including roman and jewish sources] to believe he didn't exist.
We have early 1st century writings from that area but none mention Jesus. We have no writings from anyone who claims to have met him. At best there are writings of people born decades later about people who believed Jesus lived. Paul's Epistles relate no teachings of a living Jesus. The best evidence for Jesus is when Paul refers to James as the brother of Jesus. Paul's ministry needed the Jerusalem Church, despite their theological differences, so he may have been sucking up.
There are Roman sources [Tacitus, Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger] that all mention Jesus as being the one who was crucified for calling himself or being called the Messiah, and Josephus [not to say that his works were always without error, but he's still considered a notable Jewish-Roman historian] also mentions Jesus; it seems that he likely didn't believe Jesus was "the Christ" and that that was added by another author, but he very likely knew of and wrote about Jesus, however briefly.
lets not forget that Jesus was not the only person that was calling themselves the Messiah at that time, and all of them were crucified as well. Jesus was just the only person that people cared to remember.
Philo lived in Judea until 39 CE with connections to several characters mentioned in the four Gospels but never mentions a miracle worker with throngs of followers.
Still, saying because these people didn't meet Jesus doesn't mean he didn't exist. 1.Much of what happened at that time was passed along orally and has shown to be accurate-it was what most people had to work with and it worked. 2.I still stand by my assertion that the people who would've known Jesus wouldn't have been writing people 3.There are parts about Jesus that aren't flattering for him, they add credibility to his existence and to the gospels as semi-historical texts, i.e. minus miracles
Oral tradition is accurate? REALLY? Have you ever played the game "telephone"?
There are parts that are unflattering about all dieties. Did they all exist as well?
The gospals aren't historical. They were written two to three generations after the supposed time of Jesus' death and are largely inconsistant with each other.
Ok, I get where you're coming from, but it's not from a historical standpoint. Oral traditions existed for a very long time--it was the primary form of passing along info so people were pretty good at it, and they valued the stories they passed down enough to pay close attention; it wasn't like a "game" of telephone for them, it was all they had at their disposal. As to your second comment, could you clarify with an example for me?
Yes, but people can still exagerate stories to make their hero more heroic and amazing. It happened all the time with these kinds of stories in every culture.
Matthew has a different lineage from David to Jesus than Luke. (Matthew 1, Luke 3) They have different dates for the birth based on the historical time that the rulers ruled. They have different people and details at the cave where Jesus comes back. He appears to different people. Luke has Jesus talking to the rabbis. Etc.
Also atl, your 3rd comment: see my other discussion about the time issue; they aren't largely inconsistent. There are differences, surely like the miracles, birth & resurrection narratives, and parables but those differences make it easier to see where their texts diverge from what we can think of as the historical Jesus, and some differences actually help them-we assume "Matthew" & "Luke" didn't meet each other and compare notes otherwise they'd share some great stories that they simply don't.
No, the stories are directly contradicting. One has Jesus born at around 6 BC and the other around 10 AD I believe, based on the rulers of the provinces at the time. We have an entire slaughter of the innocents that appears no where in history, we have this guy who has a huge following but nobody wrote anything down at the time, not ever people who lived in Jerusalim at the same time who would have taken an interest. He supposedly appeared to 500 people, many literate skeptics, but none wrote!
Like I said, the birth/resurrection stories are not historical-the birth stories were, according to many religious scholars, the product and reflection of the post-Easter community-all of a sudden people started asking "hey, where'd Jesus guy come from really, what happened before his ministry?" so those communities developed stories to account for Jesus--they aren't historical. But just because some people [falsely?] think Jesus was born of a virgin doesn't mean he wasn't really born at all.
Just disputing the "no doubt" part. The oldest versions of Mark end with women being afraid to tell. He has Jesus curse the fig tree, then throw the temple tantrum, then they notice the tree withered as if it foreshadows the destruction of Jerusalem. The disciple are too dense to realize who Jesus was, no matter how many miracles he did. It sounds like a story. The other gospels are based on Mark so they're stuck with the basics, even if they expunged the parts where Mark says Jesus was angry.
True, cenk's a little off here...talking about 60s years. more like 15-20 years if you count Paul...definitely out of his area of expertise, he's made similar mistakes in the past.
That's the other thing. It doesn't seem all that strange to me as a student of religion, to think that there wouldn't be writings from people who had met/knew Jesus; his circle of listeners and followers were primarily fishermen, etc not those likely to write about him in their journal. Thus it makes sense that the writings came after his death; being nice while alive wasn't what would make him famous, being a threat to the peace of Passover or to the high priests would.
Pause...you say first epistles 50-60 AD. When is the scholarly time frame for christ's death? Whether more conservative or liberal the consensus is..30-33 AD. so we have , writings 17-20ish years afterwards (less if you consider galatians written in the late 40s). That's a big difference from cenk's claim of 60 years. I'm a fan of TYT politically, but darn, can't I disagree without being labeled an idiot off the bat? I dont pretend to have full certainty, but I do try to be reasonable.
It is between 50 - 60 years after the death of Jesus. Not sure where you are getting 30 - 33 years or even 17 - 20 years from. You should check your sources on this bro.
it's all good, let me explain where I'm getting the numbers from. Jesus died in either 30 or 33 AD. Paul, our earliest author wrote concerning jesus, by the latest, in the 50s AD. This means, someone was writing about jesus around 20 or so years after his death. Not too bad for antiquity, but it's understandable why people in the 21st century may have issues with that. All Im saying is cenk is off with that minimum 60 years stuff. That's not fair to the evidence.
he is usually off a little on his religous comments, he comes close, but he is usually wrong, common for people that have heard a lot of things but never bothered to learn anything
Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't actually have those original texts any more do we? As I understand all we have are interpretations of translations.
no, you're right about the originals. And even if we did have them somewhere it would be next to impossible to know. Doesnt do much against being fairly confident about the general dates of Paul's writing, I can go about backing that up elsewhere if you want, but I think I've bothered this semi-religiously hostile page too much.
No that's fine I just figured this was as good a time as any to confirm that, never got round to actually checking myself. I'm an atheist myself but I agree sometimes my fellow atheists get a little virulent in their criticisms of religious material.
That said I do think it works both ways which bolsters both "sides" in their beliefs but doesn't do much for actual intelligent discussion ;)
Yes, I am evangelical myself ( I suppose a bit of an odd one since I like watching TYT) and of course we have our fundamental hotheads who can't control their emotions in discussion. I guess you and I are example of true tolerance.
Like nc86 said, you're right we don't have originals, but we don't for many ancient documents. Still, the copies that were made were made by scribes, people trained to listen and copy all the time. Of course they missed words, but policy was to write possibilities in the margins, not just in the text. And of course things are lost because of translation, but they're not usually factual references, they're metaphors, etc. And there are still scholars who read ancient texts in original languages.
Paul doesn't refer to Jesus as being from Nazareth. It is not clear that he is speaking of the same Jesus as Mark. Luke and Matthew use similar sources and Luke uses Josephus so that puts his writings no earlier than the end of the 1st century. Luke mentions that there were other writings of Jesus but the early church apparently considered them too far-fetched.
I think Mark was written less than 60 years after the supposed event were supposed to have happened but not the others.
. You are talking about people who lived in an age in which most things were a mystery, sun, stars, wind, thunder lightening, etc. How do you explain them? You conjure gods or spirits that created them. Then some guy pops up and says " So check it fellas, I just happen to be the sun of the god who made all this cool shit"(Deuteronomy 2:12) Then they believe that JC has the answers and follow him. Now we have science, technology, and mathematics to explain how these things work.
dont think Jesus wants to meet him tho.We wont have to wait long to witness what happens to the likes of him.
antiazazel 4 months ago
%uhh?
CNmaster1 5 months ago
Someone prove to me that Jesus and God and w/e are real. I'll pay you a billion dollars.
MountainDewOfficials 6 months ago
Jesus existed for sure. You don't have to believe it. But he REALLY existed. You can believe some or all they wrote about him was a lie, but he was 'FO SURE real deal.
mrrossjonathan 6 months ago
Was no Jesus? Come on don't you sound like an idiot saying that? You make me sick.
therightstuff90731 7 months ago
why is talking about this he's close to meeting him any day now
theprotectshade 9 months ago
"People who wrote about him was a minimum of sixty years afterwards"
Except Paul's epistles date only about 20 years after, and he was already persecuting Christians around 35 AD, and the consensus of scholars date Christian creeds to about that time as well.
Also, the Gospel of Luke was likely written before Paul died since Acts doesn't mention what happened to him, and also doesn't mention the fall of Jerusalem - two big things he would have mentioned if already occurred.
highwind8124 1 year ago
"Jesus might not even have existed."
Except that Paul wrote about meeting up with his brother James and the disciples who knew him... yeah.
But hey, when ignorant, you can say anything.
highwind8124 1 year ago
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MrTruthClarity 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You will see Jesus SOON.
moomman89 1 year ago
@krumbz2003 shut up! That person is right! Jesus did exist and he is coming back for those who belive in Him. If you don't want to belive the go to he'll! (you will wind up there eventually anyways)
omletz94 1 year ago
@omletz94 Even IF, and it's a HUGE IF, Jesus did exist... he certainly was no god or deity. He was a human being just like anyone else and had NO supernatural powers.
That's just reality man. I'm sure you were brought up to believe in the bible and to believe it literally... but unfortunately it's just not true.
Adam and Eve = no.
Moses parting a sea = no.
Noahs ark = no.
Jesus walking on water, healing people and coming back to life = no.
It's quite shocking to "snap" out of it. Good luck.
Krumbz2003 1 year ago
Just a couple things...
Jesus did exist. Research it, anyone who is interested in knowing the truth. A self-proclaimed atheist man sought out to actually disprove Jesus' resurrection and ended up finding that it actually happened. He got saved.
The Bible says that all you have to do is seek. If you really want to know if there is a God and who He really is...look. The proof is everywhere. Knowing God is not about religion or church, it's about having a personal relationship with the Lord.
StephaniexLawson 1 year ago 4
@StephaniexLawson
Yeah it makes perfect sense that a human being can walk on water, chemically change water to entire different substance in wine, produce bread loaves out of thin air and die and then three days later come back to life like a zombie. (Before he floats up into space.)
Absolutely true. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a FOOL!
Krumbz2003 1 year ago
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MrTruthClarity 1 year ago
@MrTruthClarity Two rocks slamming together created the universe? lol
What???
Krumbz2003 1 year ago
@Krumbz2003 The Big Bang Theory.
MrTruthClarity 1 year ago
@MrTruthClarity
I mean this with nothing but sincerity... IF you think that "two rocks slamming together" represents the Big Bang Theory... you are BRUTALLY mistaken. In fact that analogy is like comparing apples to sports cars.
It's not even CLOSE to what the Big Bang Theory says. I HIGHLY recommend that you revisit that statement and do more or BETTER research before you make any other wildly incorrect statements. It's COMPLETELY wrong. It doesn't even make sense. I dunno good luck.
Krumbz2003 1 year ago
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@Krumbz2003 No, Not a human in the traditional sense. The son of God. Also it makes perfect sense that two rocks collided together and created all that there is today? Right....you go outside, smack two rocks together and tell me what you get LOL. Jesus performed those "MIRACLES" to give UNDENIABLE EVERLASTING PROOF that he was indeed THE SON OF GOD! Not just to put on some random show. Christmas, Easter, the numerous biblical prdictions that have come to pass.
MrTruthClarity 1 year ago
@StephaniexLawson that makes no scene thats like having a personal relationship with someone you dont know or an intimate object since they cant talk back
only2nocrew 9 months ago
@StephaniexLawson lol didn't u watch pii the movie? if u look for something hard enough, you'll always find it in something. When your mind is fixated on something, you'll start seeing that "something" everywhere. How do you think people suffer from delusional disorders? Their mind take only negative aspects of their lives and amplify them. Religious folks to an extent undergoes almost the same process. Why do u think practitioner of every religion sees evidence for their faith?
AznGotChen 6 months ago
Like Fred. . .
Coltranized 2 years ago
Hugh Hefner and all his girlfriends who btw use him digust me.
Ocean3589 2 years ago
EyE Have
Won Thousands Of Times
C Just ask Hef.
O` and mark that thumb red->>>yes that 1
DoubleDutchBust 2 years ago
If people met Jesus they would not feel so right with themselves. But Jesus would teach them and give them a chance to change that.
MrDeppness 2 years ago
i thought hugh hefner was jesus...
daydreamin09 2 years ago
Dude you will go through great length to discard a report that was made 60 years after Jesus dying and rising, but you will believe a writing about Jesus that was written 600 years after his death and rising........ Do some searching before you roll off with some nonsense!
hamy72 2 years ago
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That dude is trying hard to be funny! successfully proves his ignorance! Just have a look the lady's face, she's like when is this ordeal going to end........ Why can't he just shut up!
hamy72 2 years ago
History Begins!
yellowman88 2 years ago
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That guy isn't even funny.
devotedchristian107 2 years ago
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DoubleDutchBust 2 years ago
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DoubleDutchBust 2 years ago
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DoubleDutchBust 2 years ago
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DoubleDutchBust 2 years ago
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DoubleDutchBust 2 years ago
DoubleDutchBust 2 years ago
I feel bad for Hef. He banged -- what -- a million broads, but never found love.
HaHaHaaa! WHO CARES?!!
No, I think there's truth in what I say. Self-help guru Zig Ziglar said something that stuck with me: pleasure is not the same as happiness.
Sex is pleasure, happiness is love.
FigurinItOut 2 years ago
When Hugh Hefner dies, the Devil is going to poke him in the heinie with his pitchfork and say "Good for you, bangin' all those broads, but I am a jealous master. Your punishment will be to clean my toilet for all eternity."
Just kiddin' Hef!
FigurinItOut 2 years ago
Cenk is skeptical of Jesus' existence? ARE YOU SERIOUS DUDE?
DonusAmbrose 2 years ago
Who ISN'T skeptical?
Besides the Bible... where is the proof that he was who he claimed he was and/or if he even did exist at all?
*The Bible is LOADED with inaccuracies therefore can not be provided as any kind of evidence.
**The Bible would NOT stand up as proof of any kind in a court of law.
Please check out the excellent series... Evolution vs. Intelligent Design. It ended up in court and made Creationists everywhere look like imbeciles BECAUSE of their lack of proof.
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
why should he not be skeptical? what has Jesus done for you that makes you so sure he exists? and i'm not talking about your thoughts & feelings as you read the bible and applied it to your life. i'm talking about the actual perception that Jesus is there in your life. Is he there? is he standing over your shoulder? Is he smiling, frowning, crying?
don't blame Cenk & the rest of us simply for being rational.
miguelin97223 2 years ago
Dude, I'm not even Christian. Cenk is skeptical of the existence of the historical Jesus. Even atheist historians wouldn't dare say that.
DonusAmbrose 2 years ago
he is just saying that is is possible that he didnt exist, he never said that jesus definitely never existed
scaglietti03 2 years ago
Not the vast majority of them, anyway.
Zekkron 2 years ago
What are you talking about? Atheist historians question the existence of the historical Jesus all the time. There's whole papers online considering the evidence.
miguelin97223 2 years ago
There's also 9/11 truthers online.
DonusAmbrose 2 years ago
I'm an atheist historian and I say jesus never existed.
CarlinYGTBFKM 2 years ago
As a second atheist historian i would say theres no certainty, and to say he never existed is rather premature.
Iker888 2 years ago
Jesus was a product of centuries of evolution. The father of Jesus was actually Xavier Francisco and not God himself or... herself... He came from the year 6666 and was the sole creator of the HCKED13 (time machine) and the first person and only person to travel through time. His initial role was to study Jews but Xavier quickly fell in love with Mary, a simple girl. Over a millennia of human evolved to impregnate women instantly by looking at a male's phallus. Thus, the Virgin Mary.
yellowman88 2 years ago
I think he was a good guy with some interesting stuff to say but he died and people started making shit up about him, ruining what he taught and focusing only on his death
JerkyChid 2 years ago
OR he could just be a prophet. He doesn't have to be either God (or the son of God) OR a lunatic.
YafaiGirl 2 years ago
enough of your reasonable behaviour! don't you realise that this is youtube!! say something stupid!! obama is hitlers lovechild or something.
glaschris08 2 years ago
cenk, why does it have to be the extreme. son of god or lunatic.
maybe he was just a friendly, chilled out hippy dude. like THE dude. or John Lennon.
JacksInn 2 years ago
And maybe Darwin was completely wrong. That's basically the extent of what you're asking him to denote Jesus to.
NyloStar 2 years ago
Actually Darwin was very right.
You believe in the Theory of Gravity right? (Newtons Law of Universal Gravitation).
Well the Theory of Evolution is not only much more accurate than the Theory of Gravity... it is THE most accurate Theory in the history of Science. It is supported not only in the fields of Biology and Chemistry but across the whole entire spectrum of Science.
Do NOT attempt to belittle the efforts of brilliant men by asserting that your old dusty book has all of the answers.
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
You assume that a person has to either believe in science, or a religion of some kind. And that's really disappointing, considering you seem relatively educated. What we know today is not even close to what Darwin presented in "Origin of Species"; thanks to..you guessed it: science. As for your frustration with my "belittling" of the efforts of brilliant men, have you ever considered the reality that the purpose of scientific theory is to be challenged and critiqued? Imagine that.
NyloStar 2 years ago
The Origin of Species has stood the test of time albeit with MINOR alterations... just like EVERY other theory Science has come up with.
Of course these theories are challenged and critiqued! They have been ever since they were first proposed.
And THAT'S why that they are SO strong and solid and supported by observation and evidence.
Religion on the other hand has also been challenged and critiqued... but has NEVER produced ONE shred of evidence to support its claim.
That is the difference.
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
@Krumbz2003 educated people once thought the world was flat, if you sailed to far youd fall of the earth haha. there are many things science teaches us these days that will probably be proved something else 300 years from now. modern tech is always changing. if someone wants to believe darwin thats fine. if someone wants to believe jesus thats fine too. a person can worship the man in the moon too and noone has the right to tell him he cant. no matter how silly they are LOL
worldtravel101 1 year ago
@worldtravel101 that's a horrible comparison. You should use an example of when the scientific community was trying to discover whether light was a particle or a wave... An example after the Scientific revolution .... where science actually would actually begin. Educated people in science such as isaac newton. but i do agree with your point that science doesn't lead to truth. but science acknowledges that, religion doesn't.
AznGotChen 6 months ago
the same shit I've been telling people for 3 years, Jesus was the first hippy.
daydream1000 2 years ago
all whoms lives are heading downward, are also dragging other things down. It's really sad how many of the comments, not mentioning TYT himself be joking around about it, and same time can't see how empty of values and hope your lives are. Only when you can believe that Jesus is the Christ, the only Son of God, who really suffered and died for you, then you can believe in the Resurrection and return to His heavenly place.
blessed2watch 2 years ago
I think Cenk is overlooking a very viable middle ground here. If Jesus of Nazareth actually existed, it's entirely possible that his message was very toned down and realistic compared to the institutional "Christian" view, and that he was just a normal but very compelling Rabbi.
underdogBA 2 years ago
Jesus not existed? If He did? Just ask Jesus cause he still is alive today.
therightstuff90731 2 years ago 5
Does he live a block over, across the street maybe or does he rent the spare room in you head?
similaritiesendhere 2 years ago
I believe they say He lives in your heart.
therightstuff90731 2 years ago
Actually, I agree with Hefner. But that's what I've made a partial mission in my life. The main thing is to just enjoy your life as much as you can. Find something that works for you/the philosophical stuff off to the side. Then, if you do choose wrong, At least you had a great go.
9Ghostly9Fish9 2 years ago
He is getting old and thinking about his mortality.
acedredayz 2 years ago
See how you can take the piss out of Jesus but not 'the prophet' - scared are yuh? If you cannot take this one on, you're not making waves any time soon.
laug66 2 years ago
Cenk, Jesus said that the people who didn't see his miracles were more blessed because they have the faith to believe even though they didn't see.
He also didn't like it when people would say "hey... some guy said you raised someone to life. Do it again for me so I can believe."
DJTripleThreat78 2 years ago
Jesus was no more of a god than you or I are.
IF he even existed... he DEFINITELY did NOT raise ANYONE from the dead, walk on water or float away up to "heaven".
It's all bullshit.
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
No one "floats" up to heaven. Creating straw-man arguments is a logical fallacy, you know. Kind of ironic, considering what you're trying to assert.
NyloStar 2 years ago
Oh I thought that they floated! Whoops! Sorry about that.
So how did Jesus get to heaven exactly and where is heaven anyway?
I'd love to be enlightened! Very exciting!
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
Oh, but I thought it was me who needed enlightening? After all, I'm the one who believes in fairy tales, right? Maybe you're right, maybe they do float up into a magic version of Candy Land. Clearly there's nothing wrong with your perception that in the beginning there was nothing, which exploded, and became everything. Yup, not far-fetched at all.
NyloStar 2 years ago
So you don't know the means by which Jesus traveled to heaven then? I thought that you did. So I guess floating would be an option then?
Nothing? That's NOT how Science describes it and if you did some research you would know that.
But let's take a different route here.
I can admit freely that I DON'T know how it all began.
The issue I have with your doctrine is... you claim that you DO know how it all began.
When you do NOT. Noone does. We can only speculate with the evidence that we have.
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
There in lies the difference you're not understanding. Faith does not rely on the 5 human senses to support belief. Science does. It's by empirical standards that one can not successfully replace the idea that an omnipotent Creator engineered the seed of existence. Science is an amazing tool, but those who abhor theism tend to try and substitute science for religion. If something can not be explained by empirical standards, science has no right to lay claim that it has the answer.
NyloStar 2 years ago
"If something can not be explained by empirical standards, science has no right to lay claim that it has the answer."...because god did it.
ImTheGrey 2 years ago
You refute me, without putting anything in place of it. Just because mankind hasn't figured out how something works doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Life does not start and stop based on whether or not think-takes can understand something.
NyloStar 2 years ago
Science doesn't and never has claimed to know the answer.
Science happily claims to say that "we don't know".
You rely on faith which is a code word for "you don't know".
But instead of admitting that "you don't know"... you go out on a limb and declare that you do.
The only evidence that you have to support your claims is ONE book... written by humans... back in a time when the Earth was flat. The book has numerous errors in it... along with impossible "miracles".
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
Boy somebody indoctrinated you very well. Perhaps if you bothered to study the theory itself, instead of making sweeping incorrect assumptions based in ignorance, you would be able to see that your statement about nothing exploding is not at all an accurate representation of what scientists think occurred. But you won't study it will you? And why? Because your too frightened to find out that something your tome says might not be accurate. Sad.
ImTheGrey 2 years ago
Welcome to the conversation. Ironic that we're discussing sweeping incorrect assumptions based on ignorance, considering I was refuting the mockery of people "floating" up to Heaven. But while we're on the topic, let's talk about how I know nothing about the Big Bang Theory, and how I don't know that one can logically infer that matter, time, and space are inseparable from the Big Bang. So gee, what existed before the Big Bang? Nothing? Ohh, I see. Then there was something. Gotcha.
NyloStar 2 years ago
So gee, what existed before God?
Is it not fair to ask the same question to your beliefs?
I know I know... God is and always was... blah blah blah... we get it.
I too can speculate to the universe ALWAYS existing but even then I would have more hypothetical evidence to support my claim then you would have to support yours.
Theories such as multi-verses... the CNS Theory etc.
There was indeed something before the Big Bang... and we will know that very soon. Hang tight.
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
XD! I'm so anxious! *bites nails uncontrollably.
daydream1000 2 years ago
Typical erroneous statement. The Big Bang was clearly not NOTHING.
Savior20061 2 years ago
those new twins that hefner is with now are so fucking hot. Im sure he pops a couple V an goes to town on dat ass
bigbody410 2 years ago
Elvis Presley did not exist, either.
He was a combination of Michael Jackson and Frank Sinatra.
Cenk should talk to his beloved Tom Cruise.
FormerlyKnownAsNopez 2 years ago
Elvis did exist...hes in Cuba with Bruce Lee, John Lennon and Tupac fighting Castro. With nunchuck and music.
Lorenzo312 2 years ago
lol At first I thought they meant he'd like to meet Jesus from TYT.
prdfmc 2 years ago
you guys are great i love this show
colin8696908 2 years ago
Blarg!
zoidburg002 2 years ago
Back then?....when people lived for 100's of years.......60 years was an eternity?......what a moron.
Speaking of morons.......Hefner and the young jerk WILL get to meet Jesus......I don't think it will be happy times for them.
HEYBUDD 2 years ago
most people didnt live past 40
zlzgrom86 2 years ago 2
Looks like you're in for some rough time too if you keep up the anger and keep calling people names and that. Aren't you supposed to love your neighbor or something?
megamarsvin 2 years ago
I'm suppose to hate evil.....just like Jesus.
HEYBUDD 2 years ago
So.. You think Cenk is evil? I mean not just someone you disagree with but actual evil, like Satan's minion on earth?
I mean even Jesus washed prostitutes feet, he even forgave the Romans who killed him. You think he would've hated Cenk for making a mistake?
Hiding your petty intolerance behind religious righteousness is not going to go down well with the big man if you ask me.
megamarsvin 2 years ago 2
Never said I think Cenk is evil.
But yes, he is serving Satan and his plan for man, un-wittingly I'm sure.
Even if you are lukewarm in your faith God said that he would "spew you out of his mouth". Doesn't sound like love for all to me.
God is not all love, rainbows and lollipops like the evil, yes, evil majority of preachers are teaching these days.
God is about loving Him, fighting evil and accepting His gift of salvation.
Not love of everything. That's nutty, new age crap.
HEYBUDD 2 years ago
God doesn't exist. At all. Never has.
Study more and think deeper. "Good" and "Evil" do NOT exist as well. They have supernatural connotations.
Oh and there's no "Satan" as well.
It's all bullshit and the majority of "believers" only believe because their entire lives they were brought up to think that there is a "god" and that there is no exception to the rule.
If you challenge your beliefs... you goto a mythical "hell".
That's bullshit. CHALLENGE YOUR BELIEFS!
Krumbz2003 2 years ago 2
wait a second, I'm gonna try to leave the Jesus discussion out, but it's very interesting you say there's no "good" or "evil". Tell me, the holocaust, was it something that was merely socially disadvantageous or was it something that "ought" not have happened? In a world without good or evil, duties and responsibilities etc. are illusions. All there "is" is what "is". self- sacrifice is not actually good and rape etc. are not really evil. Do you really believe that?
nc86prod 2 years ago
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realrunescxaper 2 years ago
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emmabeckafreaks 2 years ago
I like the show (young turks) & most of it commentary, but he needs 2 let Anna K. have more time 2 express her opinions. I find that he cuts her off 2 often & doesn't let her finish her thoughts. I realize it's his his show, but he should balance it out more.
Dascorpio36 2 years ago 2
Frankly if you watch the full show she gets carried away quite a lot. I think Cenk is right putting his foot down from time to time ^^
megamarsvin 2 years ago
Jesus didn't exist?!?! What is he talking about. Even if he wasn't who hes said to be, there was a Jew that around 33 AD was said to have been a miracle doer. There are texts from Roman officials to back that up. This guy is great and everything, but if your going to try and bash a religion then do get your facts strait or you make all atheist look bad. Same goes for religious types that want to talk about evolution. Dont be silly and go to school before you shout your views.
Jiwan89 2 years ago
"there was a Jew that around 33 AD was said to have been a miracle doer."
That's the whole point here. One source of information which includes human interference is not solid proof. The people around that area could at the time have made up the story about a man that could do miracles for millions of reasons.
Rekmackan 2 years ago
Information about people is never based on solid proof. For all we know Plato, Socrates and Aristotle never existed. But you take peoples word for it sometimes. If the sources of information are divers and trustworthy then you except it as the truth. Thats how history is written. If a roman regent mentions Jesus in a privet letter as a miracle doer in Judea then it is expectable to say that there could have been a Jesus. If there are more clues then it becomes more acceptable and so on.
Cheers
Jiwan89 2 years ago
You had me right up to the point where you said "was said to have been a miracle doer." There was a prophet Jesus about that time. Once upon a time there was also a Mohammed, a Buddha, Vishnu and Shiva, etc. The only thing I'm certain of is that all of them would be appalled that there are organizations that collect money in their names which have been infiltrated by governments and politicians for personal gain. But you're right, those people ARE silly.
ibwilliamsi 2 years ago
I say there was once a Mohammed and a Budda (Dont know enough about Vishnu and Shiva). Denying that they ever existed just show that you havent had a scientific education. If they had they would know that most historical facts are not fact in the way that scientists discover facts. History can not always be verified. Some things like flying with feathers and wax can be denied, but if there are enough sources that verify something you cannot deny that something happened.
Cheers,
Jiwan89 2 years ago
Get real... Like Jesus would ever own a gun or vote Republican. Jesus is cool, but some of his followers give me the creeps. I missed church this week because I was busy practicing witchcraft and becoming a lesbian.
"If God were alive today, He'd be an atheist." - Kurt Vonnegut
ibwilliamsi 2 years ago 2
There is a HUGE possibility that Jesus Christ... never existed. I mean there were loads of people named Yeshua (Jesus real name) back then. Tons of people with that name.
So the real point here is to say that THE Jesus Christ of the Bible... never existed. (Performing miracles etc).
If he did he may have been a magician of his time or something along those lines. Or even had a mental disorder - such as skitzophrenics who claim that they are god etc.
He CERTAINLY wasn't a god though.
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
I agree with Octavian on rome, there is a prime mover of sorts but a community of deities who look like us and meddle in our daily affairs is highly improbable.
Remus0387 2 years ago
religion is a mental illness, 3/4 of worlds population is mentally retarded.
ferrariModenas 2 years ago
not all followers of religion are mentally retarded. most are just succumbing to peer pressure and fearmongering. many are just going through the motions out of habit or convenience.
sadly most people live their life for others and never bother to figure out who they really are or what they want out of life.
enigmatically 2 years ago 3
One thing you never do is taunt God or challenge Him its a lose lose situation. Uncool
cawright331 2 years ago
I do it for the lulz
Xerxes4242 2 years ago 2
God doesn't exist brother. Never has... never will.
Don't be frightened of the unknown.
As for your claim... fuck god.
lol He doesn't exist man... don't sweat it. These are all man-made religions and deities. Thankfully we are moving away from these imaginary supernatural beings and moving towards the realm of evidence, observation and facts.
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
and what would these "observations and facts." be?
kzzile 2 years ago
jesus did not exist, there is not one solid shred of evidence
ferrariModenas 2 years ago
I think Jesus was just a guy with some crazy ideas about how treat your fellow man (And possibly some lunatic who thought he was the "Messiah"). Then a few decades after his death... Suddenly he was born of a virgin, walked on water, etc...
Basically, the whole thing is a sham.
EscpdFrmPsykward 2 years ago
you will soon see that He does, indeed, exist.
ddamico3 2 years ago
yeah christains have been saying that for 2000 years now shit or get off the pot
Leadman1989 2 years ago
bigk4444 posted: "jesus does exist, i love him"
agreed.
AvalonWolf 2 years ago
I don't get why christian men have no problem "loving" Jesus but then they hate gay people.
men loving Jesus = gay
enigmatically 2 years ago
enigmatically posted: "I don't get why christian men have no problem "loving" Jesus but then they hate gay people. men loving Jesus = gay"
I don't hate gay people. And your misconception of love is wrong in this context. I love Jesus like a father, brother, friend, who died for me and you where you like it or not. And seeing a lot of these posts is the reason why He did what He did. Miss California is right for saying what she said. A gay guy at my job whom I have respect for that is cool.
AvalonWolf 2 years ago
You're so full of shit. You have no respet for gay people if you agree with denying them rights.
Stop hiding behind the buy-bull and start being honest with yourself. If you're just taking away rights from gay people because your church is homophobic, stop. If you're just homophobic and using your church to hide behind so that you can claim not to be a bigot, just stop.
Either you're blindly accepting someone else's homophobia or you are a homophobe, which is it?
enigmatically 2 years ago
typo, I meant to say respect.
enigmatically 2 years ago
I think gays should move to a country where they have Sharia Law.
theheat151 2 years ago
I think you should be punched in your mouth.
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
I'd like to see you try...
theheat151 2 years ago
Give me the opportunity tough guy.
You piece of shit. You, your family, your friends... your ideology... your ignorance... your hate... your illogical reasoning... it's all over brother.
I'd LOVE to beat your ass. Maybe we'll get the chance one day to "debate" offline.
A dick.
You can eat one.
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
Come on, cyber tough guy. You can find me in DC.
theheat151 2 years ago
I think that theheat151 should move to india and get abducted and assimilated by the Hijra.
enigmatically 2 years ago
I have no problem going to India, but you cowards wouldn't dare go to a country where Sharia Law is established.
theheat151 2 years ago
"I have no problem going to India"
Good. Move there, then let the Hijra cut off your dick, force you to grow breasts and wear women's clothing, ant turn you into a prostitute. You are not only well suited for this lifestyle but you'd probably even enjoy it.
Sharia Law is fucking ridiculous. I'd not move there for any amount of money because they treat women like property. There are hundreds of great reasons not to live under Sharia Law that have nothing to do with homosexuality.
enigmatically 2 years ago
more a matter of being too smart than too afraid. why hang out where the whackos live?
Bubba186 2 years ago
He almost certainly didn't exist.
fathead8489 2 years ago 3
Mohammed is greatest
tarantura420 2 years ago
FUCK Hugh Hefner's feelings!
beatbrain 2 years ago
I'm on board where do I sign. What do you need me to do, bash gays?
ROFL!!!
mexicanexalted 2 years ago
Seems like most of your qualms are with the apostate Roman catholic church.
There have been plenty of secular regimes that ordered the rape, pillage, and murder of millions upon millions of people and put even more into bondage.
For whatever reason it seems as though you've personalized this position on religion. I pity how you hate something you supposedly think doesn't exist.
It's almost as if your wasting your time in an attempt to prop yourself up mentally.
cheeseaura 2 years ago
there doesn't seem to be any doubt as to whether jesus really existed--he did, there was a historical jesus. whether or not he walked on water or was a lunatic could be debated, but he wasn't made up, there are too many sources [including roman and jewish sources] to believe he didn't exist.
ccrider0217 2 years ago
We have early 1st century writings from that area but none mention Jesus. We have no writings from anyone who claims to have met him. At best there are writings of people born decades later about people who believed Jesus lived. Paul's Epistles relate no teachings of a living Jesus. The best evidence for Jesus is when Paul refers to James as the brother of Jesus. Paul's ministry needed the Jerusalem Church, despite their theological differences, so he may have been sucking up.
8WholeThing 2 years ago
There are Roman sources [Tacitus, Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger] that all mention Jesus as being the one who was crucified for calling himself or being called the Messiah, and Josephus [not to say that his works were always without error, but he's still considered a notable Jewish-Roman historian] also mentions Jesus; it seems that he likely didn't believe Jesus was "the Christ" and that that was added by another author, but he very likely knew of and wrote about Jesus, however briefly.
ccrider0217 2 years ago
lets not forget that Jesus was not the only person that was calling themselves the Messiah at that time, and all of them were crucified as well. Jesus was just the only person that people cared to remember.
DiceWarwick 2 years ago
Tacitus born 55 CE
Suetonius born c. 70 CE
Pliny the Younger born 63 CE
Josephus born 37 CE
All a generation or two too late.
Philo lived in Judea until 39 CE with connections to several characters mentioned in the four Gospels but never mentions a miracle worker with throngs of followers.
8WholeThing 2 years ago
Still, saying because these people didn't meet Jesus doesn't mean he didn't exist. 1.Much of what happened at that time was passed along orally and has shown to be accurate-it was what most people had to work with and it worked. 2.I still stand by my assertion that the people who would've known Jesus wouldn't have been writing people 3.There are parts about Jesus that aren't flattering for him, they add credibility to his existence and to the gospels as semi-historical texts, i.e. minus miracles
ccrider0217 2 years ago
Oral tradition is accurate? REALLY? Have you ever played the game "telephone"?
There are parts that are unflattering about all dieties. Did they all exist as well?
The gospals aren't historical. They were written two to three generations after the supposed time of Jesus' death and are largely inconsistant with each other.
atlant80 2 years ago
Ok, I get where you're coming from, but it's not from a historical standpoint. Oral traditions existed for a very long time--it was the primary form of passing along info so people were pretty good at it, and they valued the stories they passed down enough to pay close attention; it wasn't like a "game" of telephone for them, it was all they had at their disposal. As to your second comment, could you clarify with an example for me?
ccrider0217 2 years ago
Yes, but people can still exagerate stories to make their hero more heroic and amazing. It happened all the time with these kinds of stories in every culture.
Matthew has a different lineage from David to Jesus than Luke. (Matthew 1, Luke 3) They have different dates for the birth based on the historical time that the rulers ruled. They have different people and details at the cave where Jesus comes back. He appears to different people. Luke has Jesus talking to the rabbis. Etc.
atlant80 2 years ago
Also atl, your 3rd comment: see my other discussion about the time issue; they aren't largely inconsistent. There are differences, surely like the miracles, birth & resurrection narratives, and parables but those differences make it easier to see where their texts diverge from what we can think of as the historical Jesus, and some differences actually help them-we assume "Matthew" & "Luke" didn't meet each other and compare notes otherwise they'd share some great stories that they simply don't.
ccrider0217 2 years ago
No, the stories are directly contradicting. One has Jesus born at around 6 BC and the other around 10 AD I believe, based on the rulers of the provinces at the time. We have an entire slaughter of the innocents that appears no where in history, we have this guy who has a huge following but nobody wrote anything down at the time, not ever people who lived in Jerusalim at the same time who would have taken an interest. He supposedly appeared to 500 people, many literate skeptics, but none wrote!
atlant80 2 years ago
Like I said, the birth/resurrection stories are not historical-the birth stories were, according to many religious scholars, the product and reflection of the post-Easter community-all of a sudden people started asking "hey, where'd Jesus guy come from really, what happened before his ministry?" so those communities developed stories to account for Jesus--they aren't historical. But just because some people [falsely?] think Jesus was born of a virgin doesn't mean he wasn't really born at all.
ccrider0217 2 years ago
So you don't believe Jesus was the messiah if you don't believe the birth and the ressurection?
atlant80 2 years ago
Just disputing the "no doubt" part. The oldest versions of Mark end with women being afraid to tell. He has Jesus curse the fig tree, then throw the temple tantrum, then they notice the tree withered as if it foreshadows the destruction of Jerusalem. The disciple are too dense to realize who Jesus was, no matter how many miracles he did. It sounds like a story. The other gospels are based on Mark so they're stuck with the basics, even if they expunged the parts where Mark says Jesus was angry.
8WholeThing 2 years ago
True, cenk's a little off here...talking about 60s years. more like 15-20 years if you count Paul...definitely out of his area of expertise, he's made similar mistakes in the past.
nc86prod 2 years ago
That's the other thing. It doesn't seem all that strange to me as a student of religion, to think that there wouldn't be writings from people who had met/knew Jesus; his circle of listeners and followers were primarily fishermen, etc not those likely to write about him in their journal. Thus it makes sense that the writings came after his death; being nice while alive wasn't what would make him famous, being a threat to the peace of Passover or to the high priests would.
ccrider0217 2 years ago
agreed.
nc86prod 2 years ago
Comment removed
fsem10 2 years ago
the epistles were writen50 - 60 years AD so ur wrong and Cenk is right,
.........unless u dont accept scholarly view, and think that the Earth is the center of universe, in that case ur right
fsem10 2 years ago 2
Pause...you say first epistles 50-60 AD. When is the scholarly time frame for christ's death? Whether more conservative or liberal the consensus is..30-33 AD. so we have , writings 17-20ish years afterwards (less if you consider galatians written in the late 40s). That's a big difference from cenk's claim of 60 years. I'm a fan of TYT politically, but darn, can't I disagree without being labeled an idiot off the bat? I dont pretend to have full certainty, but I do try to be reasonable.
nc86prod 2 years ago
It is between 50 - 60 years after the death of Jesus. Not sure where you are getting 30 - 33 years or even 17 - 20 years from. You should check your sources on this bro.
Just keepin' it real.
Krumbz2003 2 years ago
it's all good, let me explain where I'm getting the numbers from. Jesus died in either 30 or 33 AD. Paul, our earliest author wrote concerning jesus, by the latest, in the 50s AD. This means, someone was writing about jesus around 20 or so years after his death. Not too bad for antiquity, but it's understandable why people in the 21st century may have issues with that. All Im saying is cenk is off with that minimum 60 years stuff. That's not fair to the evidence.
nc86prod 2 years ago
he is usually off a little on his religous comments, he comes close, but he is usually wrong, common for people that have heard a lot of things but never bothered to learn anything
Bubba186 2 years ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't actually have those original texts any more do we? As I understand all we have are interpretations of translations.
megamarsvin 2 years ago
no, you're right about the originals. And even if we did have them somewhere it would be next to impossible to know. Doesnt do much against being fairly confident about the general dates of Paul's writing, I can go about backing that up elsewhere if you want, but I think I've bothered this semi-religiously hostile page too much.
nc86prod 2 years ago
No that's fine I just figured this was as good a time as any to confirm that, never got round to actually checking myself. I'm an atheist myself but I agree sometimes my fellow atheists get a little virulent in their criticisms of religious material.
That said I do think it works both ways which bolsters both "sides" in their beliefs but doesn't do much for actual intelligent discussion ;)
megamarsvin 2 years ago
Yes, I am evangelical myself ( I suppose a bit of an odd one since I like watching TYT) and of course we have our fundamental hotheads who can't control their emotions in discussion. I guess you and I are example of true tolerance.
nc86prod 2 years ago
Like nc86 said, you're right we don't have originals, but we don't for many ancient documents. Still, the copies that were made were made by scribes, people trained to listen and copy all the time. Of course they missed words, but policy was to write possibilities in the margins, not just in the text. And of course things are lost because of translation, but they're not usually factual references, they're metaphors, etc. And there are still scholars who read ancient texts in original languages.
ccrider0217 2 years ago
Paul doesn't refer to Jesus as being from Nazareth. It is not clear that he is speaking of the same Jesus as Mark. Luke and Matthew use similar sources and Luke uses Josephus so that puts his writings no earlier than the end of the 1st century. Luke mentions that there were other writings of Jesus but the early church apparently considered them too far-fetched.
I think Mark was written less than 60 years after the supposed event were supposed to have happened but not the others.
8WholeThing 2 years ago
Well if Jesus was a lunatic - then that would explain all of the followers.
ValyTraveler 2 years ago 2
. You are talking about people who lived in an age in which most things were a mystery, sun, stars, wind, thunder lightening, etc. How do you explain them? You conjure gods or spirits that created them. Then some guy pops up and says " So check it fellas, I just happen to be the sun of the god who made all this cool shit"(Deuteronomy 2:12) Then they believe that JC has the answers and follow him. Now we have science, technology, and mathematics to explain how these things work.
rinka777778 2 years ago
lets all not fight and embrace jesus in our hearts =)
xxLatinKillaxx 2 years ago
Don't worry hef and cenk, when it's your time to go, you'll meet him. we will all see him. i promise.
AvalonWolf 2 years ago
shit up u religions prick..
mtsipana2 2 years ago 3