"Support for Israel has cost America dearly - well over than $10,000 per American - however the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been extremely costly for the entire world. The total bill for supporting Israel is two to four times higher than that for the U.S. alone - costing the global community an estimated $6 to $12 trillion."
- Thomas R. Stauffer. Stauffer's summary of the research was published in the June 2003 issue of The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.
Israel receives LOAN guarantees NOT aid, of the $3 billion 70% goes has to go back into US defence keeping thousands of US jobs, helping to keep US defence cutting edge.
w w w . jpost . com / Opinion / Op-EdContributors / Article . aspx ? ID = 172721
h t t p : / / israelactnow . blogspot . com / 2009 / 07 / what-israel-does-for-united-states . html w w w . factsandlogic . org / ad_02c . html
w w w . jewishvirtuallibrary . org / jsource / US-Israel / israelisystems . html
"Unlike other countries, which receive aid in quarterly installments, aid to Israel since 1982 has been given in a lump sum at the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving the U.S. government to borrow from future revenues. Israel even lends some of this money back through U.S. treasury bills and collects the additional interest."
- Zunes, S. (2002). 'The Strategic Functions of US Aid to Israel,' Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs.
Israel has caused every conflict they have had since the 1800's. The riots of 1929 and 1936 were because of Zionists preparing to commit a policidal coup, which they ended up doing in 1948. Israel caused the 1967 conflict because they kept attacking syria and jordan. There is not one conflict with Israel that has not been caused by Israel. The occupation causes the current conflict.
@qwertypoiu4321 Hmmm, yeah. In 1948 when Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen all combined forces to destroy Israel, that was initiated by Israel. The Arab world rejected the Palestinian homeland, which was partitioned by the UN in 1947. Instead they chose to invade Israel. Oh yeah, and in 1973 during the Yom Kippur when Egypt and Syria invaded Israel on the holiest day in Judaism, that was also initiated by Israel... Your comment is incorrect, very incorrect.
@pooinurshoe7 In 1947 Zionists initiated a coup d'etat against the indigenous palestinian people and the border countries tried to defend the indigenous palestinian people.
In 1973 Egypt and Syria defended themselves by trying to end the Israeli occupation of the Egyptian Sinai and the Syrian Heights.
Typical thug Zionist, minimizing and lying about the history of the indigenous population you are coercively colonizing.
Funny Israel wasn't even a state in the 1800's. Arabs were massacring Jews before the state of Israel, the Grand Mufti was an ally of Hitler. The Arabs have fought Jews and lost whilst Israel has always offered land for peace. You need to take a history lesson nothing you've described resembles fact or reality.
Now you're playing semantics, and I think it's disingenuous. The truth is we're guilty of a double standard, and it's going to cause us serious problems in the long run. When we must murder for security then what price security? Our very souls i suppose by zionist standards.
I've thought this through and i've made my position known. i want to live without blood on my hands come what may.
Uh excuse me, but I'm jewish myself, ME JEWISH. And yes I can imagine a people like that which you describe. They are called Palestinians. And my OWN PEOPLE are hacking away at them in Gaza just as if it were the Warsaw ghetto.
We are becoming Nazi's, and I'm not going along with it anymore. I refuse to.
@cobraschlange Then you have bought into the big lie of our time. Why were there no Palestinians when Jordan, Egypt and Syria controlled the land which Israel now "occupies?"Suddenly they became Palestinians in 1964.Could it have anything to do with them wanting to do away with The State of Israel?Israelis have gone to Arab and Muslim countries when there have been natural disasters there, at the risk of their own lives.They were the 1st responders in Haiti.They are developing the West Bank.
Can you imagine yourself as part of a people that NO ONE felt compassion for, that no country on the face of the globe would give shelter? Can you imagine that your very existence, like that of a cockroach, was worth nothing? Then imagine that despite the horror or what you had seen and smelled in the concentration camp you made it to Israel where you could at least defend yourself and have a home and the world condemned you for it. Israel is not an illegal state.
Dershowitz uses the same logic with Israel he did with his case of Claus von Bülow. Jim Cramer, who helped Dershowitz, called Bülow "supremely guilty".
Dershowitz is a lying fraud. If Israel would get out of the 4 occupied territories, there would be no conflict.
You stupid Fuck. Why don't you listen what he is saying. He is defending the defenseless from wholesale killing. But you are too ignorant to see it. if I would be you I would kill myself. MORON.
My comment was a reply to an antisemetic blogger.
Btw you need to improve your PR skills if you want to influence others. Listen to Dershowitz he never loses his temper or swears at his opponent, he outsmarts them.
this man has mastered the art of obfuscation. what a snake in the grass. he seems to think that any criticism of israel's policies is anti-semitism. he is a liar.
Alan Dershowitz openly admitted that he thought torture should be legalized in the US (like it is used in Israel all the time).... this is how criminally insane and psychopathic this reptile Zionist is.
"Although Israel is an "advanced, industrialized, technologically sophisticated country," it "receives more U.S. aid per capita annually than the total annual [Gross Domestic Product] per capita of several Arab states." Approximately a third of the entire U.S. foreign aid budget goes to Israel, "even though Israel comprises just . . . one-thousandth of the world's total population, and already has one of the world's higher per capita incomes."
Yeah, a standing ovation... it's where after a speaker is done, people stand up and clap. I'm confused by your comment because it seems to make no sense.
SLAUGHTERING PALESTINIANS AT A RATIO OF "8 to 1" YEAR AFTER YEAR AND THEN CLAIMING YOU ARE THE VICTIM OF TERRORISM AND ANTI SEMITISM IS SIMPLY LAUGHABLE BY ANY RATIONAL, LOGIC, RELIGION OR CREED!. NO EXCUSE IS CREDIBLE FOR THESE LEVELS OF USA & UK SPONSORED TERRORISM. NOT EVEN THE JEWISH TORAH ALLOWS KILLING BEYOND AN EYE FOR AN EYE!
Source of ratio: BT Selem ISRAELI Human Rights Group
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
HELP COPY & PASTE THE ABOVE ON MANY OTHER ISRAEL RELATED VIDEOS
Wow, this man is vile. He is a liar and a propagandist. The world ignored Rwanda because everyone was too focused on Israel? Complete nonsense. Of course (yawn) it's because everyone in the world is anti-semitic. What a load of anti-intellectual bullshit. People talk about Israel because of the human rights issues... which is exactly what this guy doesn't want people to talk about. He wants you to think Israel's critics (including the entire world council) are Jew-haters. Simply disgusting.
No, the world ignored Rawanda because if anyone tried to do something, lefties like you would scream "War for oil!" There are many of groups that suffer 10 times what Palestinians have yet no lefty gives a damn. why? because israel is the JOOOOOSS!!! ZOMG!! Free tibet or make Turkey recognise the genocide of Armenians, then we shall talk.
Give me a break! The topic we are discussing HERE IS ISRAEL. If you want to talk about Turkey or Tibet, fine - i'm with you. How dare you say that 'lefties' (whatever that hell that means) are concerned about Israel because they don't like Jews! Will you please grow up? Israel no doubt gets a lot of attention because of the powerful player in this debacle - the US and what's at stake conerning the Geopolitics of the middle east. It doesn't change the facts.
If you believe what Dershowitz says - the man who plagarized wholesale Joan Peter's utterly discredited book, has argued for destroying an entire Palestinian village (without discretion) every time an Israeli is killed, misquotes his opponents and distorts facts at the drop of a hat... etc etc... you have a serious problem.
There is some truth to what you're saying -- regrettably. It only goes to show that awful injustices go on in the world. Doesn't excuse Israel in any way. I doubt that the attention Israel gets is because of "Joos", though I can't rule it out conclusively. I think it's more to do with its branding itself as a liberal democracy and its being such an international presence despite its small size.
What a bunch of hoax. Noone is obsessed with Israel defending itself. People are concerned when Israel takes civilian life and destroys the civilian infrastructure of another nation naemly lebanon without sufficient reasons. It's funny how he brushes of Iraeli atrocitries such as "the occupation, checkpoints, UN resolution contravention , etc". How does he know that Iran wants a nuclear bomb for sure? wouldn't those bombs destroy palastinian life as well if not eradicate it for good? SHAMEFUL
I glad that the best lawyer in the world is on our side. although what he says is so common sense that its embarrassing that anyone even need to say that
and you all think Jews stifle debate. look at what you are saying! anyone who speaks up for Israel gets defamed and called names by assholes like you. Most lawyers are not slime, just a few asshole ones. I know plenty of lawyers who make ethical decisions everyday.
Although your clever name for Mr. Dershowitz may be amusing to some middle school students, we would really appreciate if you would state your disagreements in a more respectable manner. Thank you!
This is a forum for discussion of ideas and topics, not to be used to attack people. If you can't separate the idea from the person then your comments will be removed.
When Israel tries to give the "Palestinians" land they claim is theirs the above mentioned group start lobbing kassam rockets at the Israelis. In 1948 the land was divided into 2 countries with Israel being amazingly tiny but the Arabs rejected this partition plan and went to war with the new Jewish state. They could have had their own country since then but they couldn't begrudge the Jews any land at all and that is still their plan to this day.
Yes there has been hatred and greed. The intent of the Balfour Declaration was wishfull thinking...madness, in retrospect. Too much hatred for any plan to have worked. What will be 50 years from now? Will the world eventually enforce a perpetual peace, uneasy though it may be? Enforced on two fighting cats, tied together by their tails? How did the Irish do it?
2000 years of Crusandes, Inquisitions, progroms and Holocausts cry out for the need for a Jewish homeland. Our COUSINS, the children of Ishmael, should understand this. The trillionaires in Saudi Arabia and the Arab Emirates could give them each a mansion in one of their countries if they wanted to. No. It is the irrational hatred for the Jewish People that fuels the whole thing. A small piece of land is not too much to ask. We cannot allow THE BIG LIE to prevail once more.
Well it is an important question whether Jews should have a homeland or should enjoy their basic human rights in peace and freedom from fear wherever they chose to live (which is the case today in any democracy) and MORE IMPORTANTLY, if the persecution of Jews in Europe justifies the brutal ethnic cleansing (as even Israeli historians call it) of Palestinians who had nothing to do with Crusades, Inquisitions and Holocausts from their homeland.
For you it is a question whether Jews should have a homeland? Doesn't history teach you anything? Would you consider France where rabbis have been stabbed and where synagogues have to post guards for protection a democracy? Ethnic cleansing?? Do you not understand that when Jordan ruled the West Bank the Arabs living there didn't even call themselves Palestinians? And the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem spent WWII in Berlin making plans with Hitler so they did have a hand in the whole thing.
Your comment has no logical continuity whatsoever, but I'll try to answer you point by point. France is certainly more of a democracy than Israel, a segregated country with a racist ideology which has kept a part of its original inhabitants out of it at gunpoint. Also, the Jordanian rule of the West Bank has NOTHING to do with the mass murder and expulsion of the Palestinians by Israeli forces. Finally, you mention that Mohammad Al Hussayni had dealings with the Nazis, but so did Avraham Stern!
This guy (Dershowitz) launched Jihad against Norman Finkelstein, as Norman happens to disagree with majority of popular best selling holocaust material. Norman Finkelstein was denied tenure due to Jihad by (Dershowitz) and his team!!!
It amazes me that these silly, young white liberals (especially the stupid white women) on campus running things like "security checkpoints" have no idea what Arabs are really like. Do these stupid white women think that the Arabs would let them: wear thongs, be fag hags, get abortions?
Say what you will about the 3billion we give Israel, at least they spend it on good things. They have good infrastructure, a good military, and an educated population. Look how the Palestinians spend their foreign aid. I believe Arafat's wife is the world's wealthiest Palestinians-she lives abroad and doesn't lift a finger to help her people.
no. unfortunately that's horseshit. they spend it on annexing the OCCUPIED (*not* disputed, 100% occupied) territory and a massive war machine. hmmmmmm, i wonder ... could 3 billion actually be spent to HELP people around the world that NEED help ??? we all know the answer is yes.
It is occupied territory, I agree. Why don't the Arabs invite the Palestinians to live in Arab Nations? Since your Dutch and I assume you are for the rights of Gays and women, where could a woman: wear a thong, get an abortion, and go drinking with her gay friends, Israel or the West Bank. Why Europeans are so pro-Palestinian amazes me.
"Why don't the Arabs invite Palestinians to live in Arab Nations?" Because it is THEIR LAND, and they have a right not to be MASSACRED AND EXPELLED FROM IT. By YOUR logic, why don't the world's Jewish communities invite the Israelis into THEIR homes? Or better yet, why isn't Israel a state for ALL its citizens, whatever their religion, as it was in pre 1948 Palestine, WHY?
The Israelis stole the land, fair and square. It may sound harsh, but that is reality.Let the Arabs help the Palestinians. The Israelis brought the Ethiopian Jews out of Ethiopia, they did something to help their own-they took action.
I have to say that is a refreshingly frank answer, however by YOUR logic, it's a free for all, and everyone has a right to (re)claim the land... And for your information, the "Ethiopian Jews" were brought to Israel as cheap labour which nominally inflates the country's Jewish population... There was an article in Yediot Ahronot a month ago about the daily abuse Ethiopian Jews face in Israel form other Jewish communities...
Zionism is not merely a Jewish-supremacist doctrine, it is also racist doctrine towards non-European Jews... In fact David Ben Gurion called Mizrahi Jews "Apes"and "Beasts" but advocated bringing them to Israel as cheap labour to fill the need for it in an all-Jewish society.
Well again, I think stereotypes are overwhelming the discussion. The New York Times (hardly an antisemitic publication, obviously) reported on an incident in Israel on October 21st where a woman on board a bus was severely beaten by Orthodox Jews because she wouldn't sit in the back of the bus (away from the men). In fact, an Israeli soldier was beaten by the same people because he happened to be sitting next to the woman.
Well no, I do not. It would be very difficult to define and gauge such a question, but there is very objective evidence to the contrary. The State of Israel does NOT have constitution (really! look it up) because since 1948, a substantial part of Israeli society considers the Torah as the only constitution of Israel. Israel declares itself a Jewish State and discriminates between its Jewish and non-Jewish inhabitants...
By comparison, the PLO Charter is a completely secular document which recognizes pre-1948 Jewish inhabitants of Palestine as full-fledged Palestinian citizens.
The PLO got their money from the Soviet Union. Arafat's "wife" did very well for herself once Yasar died of AIDS. The ANC said they'd protect whites once Apartheid was lifted, look at South Africa now. Sometimes, a society has to make compromises. The Israelis might be of the same stock as the Afrikaners are/were-but the alternative is always worse.
I don't really see what the first part has to do with anything, but yes, LOOK at South Africa... Sure there is violence... Some people would call it "black on white violence" but you might as well call it "poor on wealthy" violence... But in fact, violence is much lower now than under the appartheid (how many people have been burnt alive since then?) and the country as a whole is carrying itself much better.
The people that suffer the most are the poor white Afrikaners. The upper class whites live in gated communities and don't face violence. The Afrikaner Farmers are being terrorized by the blacks. If the Palestinians got control of the West Bank, the settlers would be killed-and the Palestinians would go medieval on the Jews.
Well again, I'd say that the people who suffer the most are the poor, period! Be they Palestinians, Arab Jews, Ethiopian Jews, and the rest. But anyway, you're talking in maybes, but right now, the Israeli settlers ARE going medieval on Palestinians (not to mention journalists, international aid workers and Israeli human rights activists, just watch the videos recorded by B'Tselem or read about the Cave of the Patriarchs and other massacres) and they're supported by tanks and helicopters...
Say what you will, but the Jews are good at Public Relations. Yes, they do kill Palestinians. The settlers are the "white trash" of Israeli soceity (straight from Brooklyn or Russia) As far the International Aid workers (I assume you mean the ISM) what are they doing there in the first place?
Yes, well that "white trash" as you call is funded directly by the government and enjoys the support of the world's fourth largest army... And by aid workers I mean everything down to the International Red Cross, and thye're there to give food and medicine to children who can't leave their houses because of curfews, airstrikes, or the all too frequent Israeli Army bulldozer running through it.
I have Gyros once a week at a Palestinian owned Deli. The owner was smart enough to leave and to get his family out. The Palestinians that stay perhaps in 2-3 generations may get a partial state, is it worth it?
You have to admit, it is pretty funny that Southern Fundie Xians are now in bed with Godless Jews from the East Coast--and on the other side you have Godless Enlightned Gentiles aligned with Muslims.
Israel has been working to prevent the death of innocent people at the hands of Islamic extrmists such as groups like Hamas and Hezballah.Israel does not have a policy of indiscriminately killing people the way Islamist groups do.
It's an unescapable fact that religious fundamentalists (from any religion) tend to adhere to archaic traditions which put down women... In fact, the people who, as you said, are stealing Palestinian land are often Orthodox Jews, and if you were to go to their communities, you might be pelted by stones (as some journalists have) if you try to speak to their women.
Arab nations do not invite Palestinians since they want a reason to tell its citizens that their national problems are from Israel, when it really isn't. Those countries have a reason to make its citizens forget about its problems, so they keep Palestinians out to continue its propaganda. Do not forget that Palestinians in Lebanon are having a tough time.
It doesn't matter what Arab nations do, they are not the issue... The Palestinian refugees were massacred and expelled from their land. They have every right under international law to return to it, period!
Read the comment before throwing your little factoids, you ignorant baby. Black September, the War of the Camps and Sabra and Chatilla (the latter carried out under the watchful eye and helping hand of the Israeli Army) do not negate the Palestinian refugees' right to come back to the land from which they WERE ETHNICALLY CLEANSED (that's the word used by Israeli historians themselves), if anything, it reinforces that right you unconscionable rube.
And which one of the New Historians might that be, you mindless Chomsky drone? Hyperbole is so boring when you can't back up your claims with facts. Even Benny Morris acknowledges that 200,000-300,000 Palestinians left under orders from Arab leaders, not as the result of involuntary expulsion. The point of both my previous and present comment is that to lay the brunt of the blame for the refugee problem at Israel's feet is just intellectually dishonest.
First off, read Benny Morris's the Palestinian Refugee Problem REVISITED rather than cravenly sticking to his first effort on the matter. OF COURSE some Palestinians voluntarily left, they sure weren't going to wait to be massacred one by one, that STILL makes them refugees from a warzone and have the RIGHT under international law to come back to their lands. The BRUNT of the refugee problem? Israel IS the refugee problem: a racit segregationist state built on the genocide of Palestinians.
Read page 590 of the Refugee Problem Revisited. I'm just going to quote straight from Morris:
"Arab officers ordered the complete evacuation of specific villages in certain areas, lest their inhabitants 'treacherously' acquiesce in Israeli rule or hamper Arab military deployments." You see, the Arab National Committee in Jerusalem, following the March 8, 1948, instructions of the Arab Higher Committee, ordered women, children and the elderly in various parts of Israel to leave their homes:
"Any opposition to this order... is an obstacle to the holy war... and will hamper the operations of the fighters in these districts." The Arab Higher Committee also ordered the evacuation of "several dozen villages, as well as the removal of dependents from dozens more" in April-July 1948. "The invading Arab armies also occasionally ordered whole villages to depart, so as not to be in their way"
So, contrary to your claim that they left out of fear of IDF, Morris makes clear that they left for two reasons: (1) to prevent Palestinians from participating in Israeli citizenship and thus "acquiescing" in Israeli rule and (2) to make it easier for Arabs to wage their holy war on Jews.
Even putting Morris aside, listen to the words of Haled al Azm (Syrian PM 1948-49). He wrote in his memoirs: "Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return." Pages 386-87 of Pt.1 of the Memoirs.
Suck it recordkeeper and next time try coming with some facts and citations.
Again, as I said, no matter who said and done what, the Palestinian refugees were fleeing a warzone and have the inalienable right under international law to come back. And now for the meat. You rely extensivley on B.Morris so let's start from there: in the Birth..., he ascertains that out of 440 instances of arabs fleeing their villages, 215 were the result of military assaults on the village, 53 of expulsionby zionist armed forces, and only 6 by arab orders, which he explains thus...
Of course, we should also ask who was the aggressor? The Arabs started every conflict and every war since the late 19th century. Any Israeli action was a reluctant response to defend its citizens. Since the Arabs started the war which caused their citizens to flee, why should the Israelis have to make concessions to accomomodate the Arabs?
"Palestinian leaders and commanders struggled against [the exodus]' but in many cases encouraged evacuation of women children and old people out of harms way and in some cases ordered villages to evacuate" and then "The Arab evacuees from the towns and villages left largely because of Jewish (...) attacks or fear of impending attack" and "From early April [1948], operational orders for attacks on villages (...) more often than not called for the destruction of villages and (...) expulsion.'...
... Now to address the arab position, which as I have said, whatever it may be, does not put into question the right of return "radio broadcast transcripts from the relevant time period [showed] that not only were there no orders to evacuate, but in fact the populace was continually urged to remain" S.Glazer, The Palestinian Exodus in 1948 (1980). And I refer you to the earlier B.Morris quote, regarding that very same issue. And try to refrain from obscene comments, it's a sign of weakness.
Its true that there is a disproportionate amount of coverage regarding the Palestinians verses other oppressed people like the Tibetans. But the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a huge concern in this country because of the amount of aid that we give to Israel. 10 million dollars a day is what makes it our business.
Well again, the Tibetans don't have an occupation that is destroying destroying their homes killing their people and expelling them from their lands to install settlers who just happen to be from "the right religion" EVERY DAY. Of course their are other people suffering, but that's why the Palestinians get so much (too little actually) coverage, because every day, Palestinian civillians are killed in their own homes.
There will *always* be militant Israeli's who will settle for nothing less than annexing the land that they see as their "holy land", and militant Hamas that hate all Jewish people. But the massive funding puts a responsibility upon Israel. but also remember, if peace ever "broke out", Israeli funding could end ! and there are MANY people (maybe including Olmert?) who will say "peace", but do their best to make sure that money flow continues (i.e. make sure the conflict NEVER ends).
True...there are good Israelis and bad Israelis as well as good Palestinians and bad Palestinians. Each side has its extremists. But, the real prosperity (for both sides) begins when there is peace. It can be a win-win for both sides. Thanks for the discussion, Roysubs. Peace be with you in the New Year!!!
The Israeli Supreme Court outlawed torture and physical pressure in 1999. Israel shares a responsibility for the suffering, but not all of it. You only have to look to the leadership of Chairman Arafat, who stole millions from his people, for culpability. You may be right about the talks stalling. I hope you're wrong, too.
You call the UN "impotent and disgusting". but they are just the voices of the nations of this planet. they are not a power to act, but an ethics committee. 99% of the countries of the world condemn Israel, not "singling out" Israel, as other countries are also condemned for their crimes. Other countries may be worse, but Israel's crimes are the issue of those 60 UN resolutions. Israel will rightly be condemned by all decent nations of the world until they stop terrorsim and leave Palestine.
What do you mean by 'leave Palestine'? Are you advocating all Israelis just abandon Israel and head to Europe and the United States? Please clarify.......(Please keep in mind that it was a U.N. resolution which validated Israel as a country in 1948)
no, of course not. Israel have a right to exist and not be occupied by an aggresor (yes, Israel are there for "defensive action", seriously, does ANYONE actually believe this) and so do the Palestinians. Israel should leave to the borders as laid down in UN resolution 242. as of that moment, peace becomes a viability. it's one thing to say "we won't leave until they stop terrorism", but that is hyprocrisy. the occupation itself is ALSO terrorism.
Resolution 242 does not delineate specific borders. It was actually left vague so that Palestinians and Israelis could negotiate the specific borders. Israel accepted and the Arabs rejected Resolution 242 after the '67 war. Yes, the occupation was a response to the violence that followed. Both Egypt and Jordan were the previous occupiers.
leave the occupied territory first. tear down the walls and remove all so-called "settlers" (this is the wrong word. if i build settlements in occupied invaded territory, that is annexation).
leaving would immediately say that Israel are serious about peace. Politicians the world over lie, and the Israeli's are lying more than most. they want that land. If i hold a knife at your throat for 30 years, and then say "I CAN'T TAKE THE KNIFE AWAY COS HE MIGHT PUNCH ME IF I DO!" would i be right?
What is the occupied territory??? Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran say it's ALL of Israel. All of Israel should be wiped off the map according to Iran's president. Should they also tear down the walls in Tel Aviv to make Hamas happy? They just left the GAZA strip and tore down the settlements there. Islamic Jihad is still firing rockets, Roysubs..WHY????
obfuscation. Iran's president not relevant and he is insane.. YES, a lot of Hamas are raving lunatics. but they are firing rockets as after more than 30 years of occupation, they are STILL VERY ANGRY. i mean, that's just TOTALLY obvious to anyone with eyes right ?? and they will be angry until they are appeased. these are not sheep, they are humans you know. only a fool would think leaving means "instant-peace" and I already said that earlier.
Haha, you even bothered to give all my texts thumbs down ratings... my god. Listen, I thought I could win a war of attrition and get you to give up. You win, you are far more immature than I am. I tried, but at 22 I can only dedicate so much time out of my life to preventing this garbage from suffocating fair discussion in public forums. Go ahead, go hunt down intelligent people and harangue them with your putrid hatred and misinformation.
there is no winner. i don't win. i hate no one. i don't call anyone "you dirty little Scot". you do. The only winners are people that get to live in relatively "ok" democracies such as the UK or Canada, so we are lucky. Israel is a disgrace, as they terrorise a neighbouring people and call it "defensive action" while the kill ratio is about 10 dead Palestinians to every 1 dead Israeli. With kill ratio's like that, it takes a very blind man to think the Israel are moral or ethical.
I don't understand your logic. Why would the side in a conflict with the fewer casualties be less moral? During World War II, Germany had a much higher number of killed than the U.S. Are you saying that the U.S wasn't moral or ethical then?
Germany annexed Sudentenland calling it a "defensive" action to rescue true Germans (see any similarity with the language that Israeli regime use?). also, Hitler said "People are so bothered by the way we're treating the Jews. They can't understand it". Germans heard their leader say this so, sheeplike, supported a lunatic. Israeli's say non-Israeli's can't understand the occupation, but we do, its an occupation, and yes, terror was/is inflicted on Israel, but this is an equal act of terrorism.
You didn't answer my question. No...I don't see the similarity in your analogy. Israel has withdrawn from Gaza and will give back other territory in exchange for peace. So far, ending the Gaza occupation hasn't resulted in greater acceptance of Israel by Hamas. So, your argument is flawed.
the point I was making is that the Allies were responding to a massive war of aggression, and the only way that could end was with the utter suppresion of the Nazi war machine, so of course more Germans were going to die. Israel, a vastly more powerful force invaded Palestine. yes, the Palestinians also did wrong. It doesn't matter if Israel were morally right at first, they MADE themselves a disgrace by a continued occupation with only one REAL, HONEST(!) purpose : annexation. that's a disgrace
Incorrect. Israel has returned captured land to both Egypt and Jordan as part of peace agreements with these countries. It also offered to turn over nearly all of the remaining territory (captured from Jordan) to the Palestinians during Taba and Camp David in 2000, but Arafat rejected it. Your 'annexation' argument doesn't hold water.
Israel didn't simply 'invade' Palestine. These territories were captured in a defensive war.
that's funny. it's one of those "technically true" statements that neglects the reality. decades of building settlements in occupied territory (Israel say "we will give up the settlements when peace happens!" but then, um, WHY BUILD THEM THEN!?!?). this is clear annexation intent. slow, sure, suffocation. and the walls ... well ... castrating communities. that's truth. Israel may not be Stalinist Russia, but morally wrong is wrong. the "ACTUAL" intent is clear to all but a blind man.
Either a statement is true or untrue. I'm just presenting you with the facts. You're just presenting me with words like 'Stalinist', 'suffocation' and 'castrating.' Emotional words that have no meaning without facts. Fact: Israel has and will trade land for peace. Fact: Israel unilaterally has torn down settlements in Gaza and will do the same in the West Bank for peace. But where's the peace? There was no peace between 48 and 67 when there was no occupation. What's your explanation?
you didn't answer my question. why build settlements if this is not annexation ?
politicians are lunatics, Israeli politicians also. they want to stamp their names on history, they want to the be the ones that rid the world of those "damn arabs" in the Holy Land and be "Jewish Heroes" by winning back the promised land, hence the settlements/annexation. i'd sooner trust a hungry bear than a politician (and yes, that applies to both sides - but right is right, and the settlements are wrong).
Because no permanent boundaries were ever set. We don't know what will eventually be Israeli territory and what will be Palestinian territory final borders. Prior to Abbas, no Palestinian leader was willing to accept the two-state solution (Palestine and Israel living in peace side by side) If one had, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now, would we????
if a settlement was built on a disputed "final border zone", i might agree. but settlements built DEEP within the west bank. no. no amount of political "honey-speak" can make that look other than it is. the spread of those settlements is a 100% pure "we are going to take ALL of this land, and we don't give a f*ck".
i try and be hopeful about the statement today. but, Israel are untrustworthy, and Hamas are insane so I don't hold much hope.
The reality is that Israelis view some of these settlements as huge mistakes. Even a hard-liner like Sharon viewed the Gaza settlements as a big blunder. The deep ones will be dismantled.
If you don't trust Israel or the U.S., why not put some trust in Abbas and the Arab countries who are genuinely trying to put an end to the stalemate through negotiation? Anything else just prolongs the agony.
Come on subs, just admit it. You only win arguments when the other side finds you to ridiculous or unpleasant to debate with to continue. You are not right, you have never been right. You are wrong and anti-semitic. Just accept your resounding loss today and find a new place to bully sensible people. I am not going to give it to you. You need to remember that, in the end, you are wrong, your just making yourself feel better.
u funny. you feel the need to say you have "won" something. over and over. why do you have this need ? is that not quite "bullying" ? resounding loss ? not really. saddened that people simply accept Israel's crimes without ever questioning them, yes. there are crimes on both sides, but Isreal's killed nearly 10 times more people than the desperate Palestinians. 10 times. pretty clear who the aggressor is there ...
It is not quite bullying, one does suffer a defeat when they stake their credibility on a cause and they are shown to be incredulous by that cause's lack of merit. I would feel defeated in your shoes at least. Israel does kill more, it is stronger. That doesn't mean anything in terms of who the aggressor is. The aggressor is the one who infringes. Only if you believe Israel shouldn't exist could you say that it is not the Palestinians who won't stop infringing.
oh, just thought i'd mention one of your other racist statements ... "You are a racist dirty little Scot." pretty damn racist. try replacing "Scot" with Jew or black or African, or Israeli, and tell yourself that's not hate-filled racism ... it will take a lot to convince yourself that calling someone a "dirty little Scot" is acceptable language ... but knowing you, I know you will imagine that it is fine and you are not racist ;)
HAHA WHAT?! MY GOD MAN! You serious? I am not Irish to you so I am just white. Am I a white-hating-white? Is that what I am? HAHA! MY GOD! You really are desperate! You really will say anything! You even pre-defended yourself! Seriously, is this a joke? Scots have a culture, you retarded, near brain dead, desperate, hanging on, sad, sad, sad, angry, pathetic, lamentable, little, little, tiny, dismal 'man.'
you said your dad was "the victim of racist abuse" ... for being Irish ? so by your own argument, you ARE a white-hating-white ... your hypocrisy and contradiction there is absolute.
you said "Scots have a culture, you retarded, near braind dead ..." ... so was your father "racially abused" or culturally abused ? come on man, any ability to see the gaps in your own arguments there ? at all ? any pease rattling about in that skull ?
come on man, you said daddy was the victim of "racist abuse" but then say calling someone a dirty Scot is not racist abuse, so if they called him a dirty Irishman, that's not racist abuse by your bizarre definitions.
I bet you a million dollars no one EVER called him a "dirty Celt". oh, by the way, I have loads of freckles cos of my Celtic race. you want to abuse me for that? you started all this "culture/race" thing but you are mixing your definitions all over the place. u r funny as fuck ;o)
Fuck this... listen roysubs... you have been comprehensively proven wrong on everything, have cited factually incorrect information on numerous occasions, turned out to be an anti-semite. You are a joke. You will never be graced with power and respectability, that is reserved for people with sense. I shall take solace in the fact you have been on the defensive the whole time. You are a weak asshole and support other weak assholes.
oh, really? comprehensively? "factually incorrect information" ? please, an example instead of just lying?
if you need to lie repeatedly, and make racist comments to "feel solace", then I am not surprised your ambition is to be a policeman. you want to beat up others to feel righteous. you've not shown a single thing i've said that's wrong. weakness is swearing and shouting. i stand by everything i said not defensively (i don't need to be defensive, as i'm saying the true).
You got defeated on Scottish history and gave up. You havent acknowledge you are Jew-fearing anti-semite. You accuse me of being racist but cant explain how. That is what makes you an expert in the argumentative practice. You are so reasonable. The 18th century French would have definitely called you Lady Reason. More wisdom please.
defeated? but your understanding of history is a joke, it's embarressing.
I don't fear Jews or anyone.
you are a racist as you say over and over that Palestinians are a lesser species "some are good, but most are not" while Jews are "all great", truly perfect people. to identify people by RACE and disparage people by RACE, *is* the definition of RACISM. see, I have explained how you are racist, over and over. u r too dumb to comprehend.
Yah, your done. You are like the drunk who has taken a beating from a guy far better than him and bloody and mangled keeps egging on his superior. Should I continue the beating? Yah. Unjustified statement. Incorrect statement, otherwise, why imply that we should fear Jews? Palestinian is not a race. I specifically spoke of 'culture', but you don't know English well, I suggest you look it up. You have explained how I have cultural prejudice.
cultural prejudice ;o) ... shit dude, you don't have prejudice, you HATE. if Israel toture people, that's ok to you as they are "all great". if they abuse people on a daily basis, again ok, cos they are "all great". there is NOTHING that Israel could ever do that is wrong in your eyes. if they shoot any civilian, that's collatoral damage. if they kill some children that's ok. u hate. i won't talk to you about history cos u are so embarressing. and all that saying i support Galloway. too dumb.
You permit the bombing of Israeli buses, the capture of Israeli soldiers, the rocketing of Israeli cities, the murder and rape of Israeli settlers, this includes children. All this is OK with you as long as Israel continues to be Jews in Muslim land occupying further Muslim lands and enforcing obeissance in these lands. Isn't it? I think Israel is making much more reasonable demands.
i "permit" it ? do i ? when did i say that ? would that be "never" ? yes, again, another lie, that's great man. lie upon lie upon lie. any murder is a crime. people who bomb Israeli buses are criminals. i've always said that. but the kill rate is about 10 to 1. that's 10 dead Palestinians for every 1 dead Israeli. so for each 1 Israeli bus there is an equivalent of 10 buses of dead Palestinians. that's not criminal ?
No, you are powerless, you permit nothing. You would permit is the proper expression, intelligent people make assumptions like that given our situation as two citizens of countries not involved in the conflict. The kill rate depends on the year. In the 2000 intifada, it was 550 Palestinians to 170 Israelis in the first year. I said that stronger countries kill more. That is the way the world works.
yes, i said that. i said i permit nothing. i have no say over such things. why are you repeating what i say and trying to make out that you made a point? Israel bombed 900 civilians last summer. they bombed them to death. it was pointless murder.
I, on the other hand, demonstrated your fear of a whole religious group. That is much more egregious that fearing a cultural group. I like Persians, I don't fear Islam. That is a cultural group. I think Lebanese are a lot more chill than Palestinians. Well, actrually, in your defense, I know a lot more about people from the region. You speak out of a lot of truly gross ignorance.
demonstrated? unjustified statement (i'll just play your silly game back at you).
I never said you fear Islam, you just want whatever the terrorists in charge of Israel want, and don't give a shit about breaches of human rights as if they want to breach human right, well, you will support it completely. sheeplike.
That is right, use my tactics. Admit that I am better than you. Copy me. Now copy my opinions and this can all be over. Hahaha. I am exacerbating your insecurities. I just want Israel to live in absolute peace. I don't want to see another fucking rocket or satchel laced man kill Jews in the name of anti-semitism. I want this shit to stop. I know that Israel cutting shit out isn't going to stop anti-semitism or land claims. 'Reason' helps me figure out all sorts of things.
yes, you are a peace loving, people loving humanitarian. you want "Israel" to live in peace, but not "Palestine". Israel lives in peace, and Palestine lives in misery. and that's "ok" by you. i note you never ever talk about the 10 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli. that's interesting. their deaths are meaningless to you.
check you out ! "egregious", and "ad hominem". hehe, you are very good at copying words that Dershowitz uses all the time. you make a good parrot. still trying to win something are you counterintellect ? always trying to feel that you have "won". go on, say you've won again ...
You might profit from looking them up in a dictionary. Expand your vocabulary. Don't just work on your historical and theoretical knowledge, do a full overhaul. You need a lot of work done on your mind. I am a parrot? I parrot dictionaries. You have said nothing I haven't heard one hundred times before. You are boring. You say nothing new. You are not interesting. You are emotional.
"Support for Israel has cost America dearly - well over than $10,000 per American - however the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been extremely costly for the entire world. The total bill for supporting Israel is two to four times higher than that for the U.S. alone - costing the global community an estimated $6 to $12 trillion."
- Thomas R. Stauffer. Stauffer's summary of the research was published in the June 2003 issue of The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.
OrthodoxDarwinist 6 months ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist
Israel receives LOAN guarantees NOT aid, of the $3 billion 70% goes has to go back into US defence keeping thousands of US jobs, helping to keep US defence cutting edge.
w w w . jpost . com / Opinion / Op-EdContributors / Article . aspx ? ID = 172721
h t t p : / / israelactnow . blogspot . com / 2009 / 07 / what-israel-does-for-united-states . html w w w . factsandlogic . org / ad_02c . html
w w w . jewishvirtuallibrary . org / jsource / US-Israel / israelisystems . html
ByTheShortAndCurlies 6 months ago
@ByTheShortAndCurlies
"Unlike other countries, which receive aid in quarterly installments, aid to Israel since 1982 has been given in a lump sum at the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving the U.S. government to borrow from future revenues. Israel even lends some of this money back through U.S. treasury bills and collects the additional interest."
- Zunes, S. (2002). 'The Strategic Functions of US Aid to Israel,' Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs.
Israel has looted America.
OrthodoxDarwinist 6 months ago
Israel has caused every conflict they have had since the 1800's. The riots of 1929 and 1936 were because of Zionists preparing to commit a policidal coup, which they ended up doing in 1948. Israel caused the 1967 conflict because they kept attacking syria and jordan. There is not one conflict with Israel that has not been caused by Israel. The occupation causes the current conflict.
qwertypoiu4321 1 year ago
@qwertypoiu4321 Hmmm, yeah. In 1948 when Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen all combined forces to destroy Israel, that was initiated by Israel. The Arab world rejected the Palestinian homeland, which was partitioned by the UN in 1947. Instead they chose to invade Israel. Oh yeah, and in 1973 during the Yom Kippur when Egypt and Syria invaded Israel on the holiest day in Judaism, that was also initiated by Israel... Your comment is incorrect, very incorrect.
pooinurshoe7 8 months ago
@pooinurshoe7 In 1947 Zionists initiated a coup d'etat against the indigenous palestinian people and the border countries tried to defend the indigenous palestinian people.
In 1973 Egypt and Syria defended themselves by trying to end the Israeli occupation of the Egyptian Sinai and the Syrian Heights.
Typical thug Zionist, minimizing and lying about the history of the indigenous population you are coercively colonizing.
qwertypoiu4321 8 months ago
@qwertypoiu4321
Funny Israel wasn't even a state in the 1800's. Arabs were massacring Jews before the state of Israel, the Grand Mufti was an ally of Hitler. The Arabs have fought Jews and lost whilst Israel has always offered land for peace. You need to take a history lesson nothing you've described resembles fact or reality.
ByTheShortAndCurlies 6 months ago
Now you're playing semantics, and I think it's disingenuous. The truth is we're guilty of a double standard, and it's going to cause us serious problems in the long run. When we must murder for security then what price security? Our very souls i suppose by zionist standards.
I've thought this through and i've made my position known. i want to live without blood on my hands come what may.
cobraschlange 1 year ago
@ mitrageshet
Uh excuse me, but I'm jewish myself, ME JEWISH. And yes I can imagine a people like that which you describe. They are called Palestinians. And my OWN PEOPLE are hacking away at them in Gaza just as if it were the Warsaw ghetto.
We are becoming Nazi's, and I'm not going along with it anymore. I refuse to.
cobraschlange 1 year ago
@cobraschlange Then you have bought into the big lie of our time. Why were there no Palestinians when Jordan, Egypt and Syria controlled the land which Israel now "occupies?"Suddenly they became Palestinians in 1964.Could it have anything to do with them wanting to do away with The State of Israel?Israelis have gone to Arab and Muslim countries when there have been natural disasters there, at the risk of their own lives.They were the 1st responders in Haiti.They are developing the West Bank.
mitrageshet 1 year ago
Notice how Dershowitz jumps over a few snags and right into the linkage between the illegal state of Israel and the Holocaust. First thing.
And in many other debates he vehemently denies that zionists use this linkage to emotionalize Israel's existence.
He is a LOBBYIST... NOTHING MORE. And he makes a handsome amount within that function.
He is a very corrupt and harmful man.
cobraschlange 1 year ago
@cobraschlange
Can you imagine yourself as part of a people that NO ONE felt compassion for, that no country on the face of the globe would give shelter? Can you imagine that your very existence, like that of a cockroach, was worth nothing? Then imagine that despite the horror or what you had seen and smelled in the concentration camp you made it to Israel where you could at least defend yourself and have a home and the world condemned you for it. Israel is not an illegal state.
mitrageshet 1 year ago
I wonder what kind of intellectually bankrupt institution invites this man to speak.
saqib09 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Dershowitz uses the same logic with Israel he did with his case of Claus von Bülow. Jim Cramer, who helped Dershowitz, called Bülow "supremely guilty".
Dershowitz is a lying fraud. If Israel would get out of the 4 occupied territories, there would be no conflict.
randyguitarman13 1 year ago
remember remember the fifth of november...
DivNathan 2 years ago
God bless Shalhevet Pass
1948MrPatriot 2 years ago
i find this guy actually very humorous
and, clearly, quite astute
unionation 2 years ago
Not enough people like you died in WWII
Bevan30000 2 years ago
You stupid Fuck. Why don't you listen what he is saying. He is defending the defenseless from wholesale killing. But you are too ignorant to see it. if I would be you I would kill myself. MORON.
jake101146 2 years ago
My comment was a reply to an antisemetic blogger.
Btw you need to improve your PR skills if you want to influence others. Listen to Dershowitz he never loses his temper or swears at his opponent, he outsmarts them.
Bevan30000 2 years ago
Most dangerous threat to modern civilization? I think you are being, well, EXTREMELY dramatic about that... like a 7th grade girl.
How is the Holocaust a business enterprise? I'm curious.
It is tragic that 60 million people died in WWII, but the systematic way the Jews were killed in masses is astonishing to anyone.
pooinurshoe7 2 years ago
Actually 73,000,000 people died in WWII..
1948MrPatriot 2 years ago
this man has mastered the art of obfuscation. what a snake in the grass. he seems to think that any criticism of israel's policies is anti-semitism. he is a liar.
SweetDissident 2 years ago
This guy helped that shvartze OJ Simpson go free after killing Ronald Goldman, a jew.
CoronaChane 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
forestskog 2 years ago
Agree!
nerdy86 2 years ago
What he says just doesnt make sense, he is becomeing marginal at best. Did he actually earn his degree? What a dufuss.
k1a1t1h1y1 3 years ago 4
Can you take some time and listen again? I would be happy to help.
teshuvahwon 3 years ago
@k1a1t1h1y1
Alan Dershowitz openly admitted that he thought torture should be legalized in the US (like it is used in Israel all the time).... this is how criminally insane and psychopathic this reptile Zionist is.
OrthodoxDarwinist 6 months ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist
WRONG more lies and complete mischarterizations. He spoke hypothetically in a ticking time-bomb situation if I could save lives.
ByTheShortAndCurlies 6 months ago
@ByTheShortAndCurlies
"Although Israel is an "advanced, industrialized, technologically sophisticated country," it "receives more U.S. aid per capita annually than the total annual [Gross Domestic Product] per capita of several Arab states." Approximately a third of the entire U.S. foreign aid budget goes to Israel, "even though Israel comprises just . . . one-thousandth of the world's total population, and already has one of the world's higher per capita incomes."
OrthodoxDarwinist 6 months ago
Yeah, a standing ovation... it's where after a speaker is done, people stand up and clap. I'm confused by your comment because it seems to make no sense.
pooinurshoe7 3 years ago
Comment removed
forestskog 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
SLAUGHTERING PALESTINIANS AT A RATIO OF "8 to 1" YEAR AFTER YEAR AND THEN CLAIMING YOU ARE THE VICTIM OF TERRORISM AND ANTI SEMITISM IS SIMPLY LAUGHABLE BY ANY RATIONAL, LOGIC, RELIGION OR CREED!. NO EXCUSE IS CREDIBLE FOR THESE LEVELS OF USA & UK SPONSORED TERRORISM. NOT EVEN THE JEWISH TORAH ALLOWS KILLING BEYOND AN EYE FOR AN EYE!
Source of ratio: BT Selem ISRAELI Human Rights Group
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
HELP COPY & PASTE THE ABOVE ON MANY OTHER ISRAEL RELATED VIDEOS
GreenSok 3 years ago
Wow, this man is vile. He is a liar and a propagandist. The world ignored Rwanda because everyone was too focused on Israel? Complete nonsense. Of course (yawn) it's because everyone in the world is anti-semitic. What a load of anti-intellectual bullshit. People talk about Israel because of the human rights issues... which is exactly what this guy doesn't want people to talk about. He wants you to think Israel's critics (including the entire world council) are Jew-haters. Simply disgusting.
MrDarkbloom 3 years ago
No, the world ignored Rawanda because if anyone tried to do something, lefties like you would scream "War for oil!" There are many of groups that suffer 10 times what Palestinians have yet no lefty gives a damn. why? because israel is the JOOOOOSS!!! ZOMG!! Free tibet or make Turkey recognise the genocide of Armenians, then we shall talk.
tstox 3 years ago
Give me a break! The topic we are discussing HERE IS ISRAEL. If you want to talk about Turkey or Tibet, fine - i'm with you. How dare you say that 'lefties' (whatever that hell that means) are concerned about Israel because they don't like Jews! Will you please grow up? Israel no doubt gets a lot of attention because of the powerful player in this debacle - the US and what's at stake conerning the Geopolitics of the middle east. It doesn't change the facts.
MrDarkbloom 3 years ago
If you believe what Dershowitz says - the man who plagarized wholesale Joan Peter's utterly discredited book, has argued for destroying an entire Palestinian village (without discretion) every time an Israeli is killed, misquotes his opponents and distorts facts at the drop of a hat... etc etc... you have a serious problem.
MrDarkbloom 3 years ago 2
There is some truth to what you're saying -- regrettably. It only goes to show that awful injustices go on in the world. Doesn't excuse Israel in any way. I doubt that the attention Israel gets is because of "Joos", though I can't rule it out conclusively. I think it's more to do with its branding itself as a liberal democracy and its being such an international presence despite its small size.
joechuckyourtube 2 years ago
Bullshit baffles brains...
This man is proud of his ability to twist the truth into something totally unrecognizable.
His twisted logic totally causes brain-farts in juries that just want to get out of court and as far away from this guys voice as possible.
Does this guy have children that look like him?
If so, they are virgins.
JohnnyRock2000 3 years ago
Please refrain from using foul language, and disagree in a more civilized manner.
crossoverproductions 3 years ago
What a bunch of hoax. Noone is obsessed with Israel defending itself. People are concerned when Israel takes civilian life and destroys the civilian infrastructure of another nation naemly lebanon without sufficient reasons. It's funny how he brushes of Iraeli atrocitries such as "the occupation, checkpoints, UN resolution contravention , etc". How does he know that Iran wants a nuclear bomb for sure? wouldn't those bombs destroy palastinian life as well if not eradicate it for good? SHAMEFUL
rstringer66 3 years ago
is that the one where 2-3rds of the audience walked out?
alexrsuarez1 3 years ago
Hi Alex..
no..in fact it was a packed out auditorium with a standing ovation.
crossoverproductions 3 years ago
I glad that the best lawyer in the world is on our side. although what he says is so common sense that its embarrassing that anyone even need to say that
ma11ohad 3 years ago
So true.
pooinurshoe7 3 years ago
and you all think Jews stifle debate. look at what you are saying! anyone who speaks up for Israel gets defamed and called names by assholes like you. Most lawyers are not slime, just a few asshole ones. I know plenty of lawyers who make ethical decisions everyday.
BenJB07 3 years ago
what are you talking about tammer? stop spreading lies. it's completely ridiculous.
pooinurshoe7 3 years ago
Although your clever name for Mr. Dershowitz may be amusing to some middle school students, we would really appreciate if you would state your disagreements in a more respectable manner. Thank you!
crossoverproductions 3 years ago
My god, Douchewitz is the most annoying slime of a lawyer. His eyes drip with hate and hypocrisy.
rooeen 3 years ago 2
I pray that America wakes up in time to see this guy hanging on a rope.
Douglas2006 3 years ago 4
Amen.
AgrarianReformist 3 years ago 2
Some should ask Alan why he drove his firs wife to suicide. He is a sick psycho racist tribal Jew.
boils2 3 years ago
This is a forum for discussion of ideas and topics, not to be used to attack people. If you can't separate the idea from the person then your comments will be removed.
crossoverproductions 3 years ago
It would be interesting to know what YOU resemble of. Could you send a picture?
warmperson2007 3 years ago
Palestinians get a disproportiniate amount of attention in America and the world?
In America?
Jesus Christ, Dershowitz.
4ourthofjuly 4 years ago
4ourthofjuly I know this guuy is a joke.
pranil8 3 years ago 2
Amazing how the United States of AIPAC have perfected the art of tossing salad on Israel's hole!!!!!
LeFornicario 4 years ago
The reasons for preventive attacks on nations are so subjective....
Demonize and then destroy.
Just forget UN permissions and bomb anyone you are afraid of...that's what it is.
Focus on a pre-text to war...and then do it.
The US is now doing that in Iraq...perhaps soon to Iran...
Some Arab nations could do it soon to Israel.
Israel could do it anytime....
They would all rationalize the goog reasons for doing it. And squabble with each other over whose reasons are valid or not.
JohnnyRock2000 4 years ago
Hard to believe that this slimey stereotype...whiney, hand-wringing, lying, manipulator, in-love-with-himself manipulator would become so famous....
Just for helping out with the O.J. case.
Can't american zionists come up with someone less irritating?
Oy-vey....
JohnnyRock2000 4 years ago
Dershowitz would cry anti-semitism up to the moment that fellow neo-cons lead the U.S. and the rest of us into a Third World War.
And that one would be nuclear.
Israel must be forced, more peacefully than not, by the whole of the world powers to devide fairly into a Palestinian and Jewish land.
This must happen...
Right now AIPAC is the danger in the U.S.
Too much control over foreign policy...for too many years. Too much control over the election process.
JohnnyRock2000 4 years ago
When Israel tries to give the "Palestinians" land they claim is theirs the above mentioned group start lobbing kassam rockets at the Israelis. In 1948 the land was divided into 2 countries with Israel being amazingly tiny but the Arabs rejected this partition plan and went to war with the new Jewish state. They could have had their own country since then but they couldn't begrudge the Jews any land at all and that is still their plan to this day.
mitrageshet 4 years ago
Yes there has been hatred and greed. The intent of the Balfour Declaration was wishfull thinking...madness, in retrospect. Too much hatred for any plan to have worked. What will be 50 years from now? Will the world eventually enforce a perpetual peace, uneasy though it may be? Enforced on two fighting cats, tied together by their tails? How did the Irish do it?
JohnnyRock2000 4 years ago
2000 years of Crusandes, Inquisitions, progroms and Holocausts cry out for the need for a Jewish homeland. Our COUSINS, the children of Ishmael, should understand this. The trillionaires in Saudi Arabia and the Arab Emirates could give them each a mansion in one of their countries if they wanted to. No. It is the irrational hatred for the Jewish People that fuels the whole thing. A small piece of land is not too much to ask. We cannot allow THE BIG LIE to prevail once more.
mitrageshet 4 years ago
Well it is an important question whether Jews should have a homeland or should enjoy their basic human rights in peace and freedom from fear wherever they chose to live (which is the case today in any democracy) and MORE IMPORTANTLY, if the persecution of Jews in Europe justifies the brutal ethnic cleansing (as even Israeli historians call it) of Palestinians who had nothing to do with Crusades, Inquisitions and Holocausts from their homeland.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
For you it is a question whether Jews should have a homeland? Doesn't history teach you anything? Would you consider France where rabbis have been stabbed and where synagogues have to post guards for protection a democracy? Ethnic cleansing?? Do you not understand that when Jordan ruled the West Bank the Arabs living there didn't even call themselves Palestinians? And the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem spent WWII in Berlin making plans with Hitler so they did have a hand in the whole thing.
mitrageshet 4 years ago
Your comment has no logical continuity whatsoever, but I'll try to answer you point by point. France is certainly more of a democracy than Israel, a segregated country with a racist ideology which has kept a part of its original inhabitants out of it at gunpoint. Also, the Jordanian rule of the West Bank has NOTHING to do with the mass murder and expulsion of the Palestinians by Israeli forces. Finally, you mention that Mohammad Al Hussayni had dealings with the Nazis, but so did Avraham Stern!
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
Hes full of himself.
fcas2y6 4 years ago
This guy (Dershowitz) launched Jihad against Norman Finkelstein, as Norman happens to disagree with majority of popular best selling holocaust material. Norman Finkelstein was denied tenure due to Jihad by (Dershowitz) and his team!!!
sadiqueii 4 years ago
There is a lot of pro-islamist radicalism in american colleges and universities as is demonstrated by "Campus Watch."
Jihad means Islamic Holy War to impose Islam upon non-believers (called Kafir or "infidels.")
Aramaic12 4 years ago
It amazes me that these silly, young white liberals (especially the stupid white women) on campus running things like "security checkpoints" have no idea what Arabs are really like. Do these stupid white women think that the Arabs would let them: wear thongs, be fag hags, get abortions?
magickmatt138 4 years ago
Say what you will about the 3billion we give Israel, at least they spend it on good things. They have good infrastructure, a good military, and an educated population. Look how the Palestinians spend their foreign aid. I believe Arafat's wife is the world's wealthiest Palestinians-she lives abroad and doesn't lift a finger to help her people.
magickmatt138 4 years ago
no. unfortunately that's horseshit. they spend it on annexing the OCCUPIED (*not* disputed, 100% occupied) territory and a massive war machine. hmmmmmm, i wonder ... could 3 billion actually be spent to HELP people around the world that NEED help ??? we all know the answer is yes.
roysubs 4 years ago
It is occupied territory, I agree. Why don't the Arabs invite the Palestinians to live in Arab Nations? Since your Dutch and I assume you are for the rights of Gays and women, where could a woman: wear a thong, get an abortion, and go drinking with her gay friends, Israel or the West Bank. Why Europeans are so pro-Palestinian amazes me.
magickmatt138 4 years ago
"Why don't the Arabs invite Palestinians to live in Arab Nations?" Because it is THEIR LAND, and they have a right not to be MASSACRED AND EXPELLED FROM IT. By YOUR logic, why don't the world's Jewish communities invite the Israelis into THEIR homes? Or better yet, why isn't Israel a state for ALL its citizens, whatever their religion, as it was in pre 1948 Palestine, WHY?
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
The Israelis stole the land, fair and square. It may sound harsh, but that is reality.Let the Arabs help the Palestinians. The Israelis brought the Ethiopian Jews out of Ethiopia, they did something to help their own-they took action.
magickmatt138 4 years ago
I have to say that is a refreshingly frank answer, however by YOUR logic, it's a free for all, and everyone has a right to (re)claim the land... And for your information, the "Ethiopian Jews" were brought to Israel as cheap labour which nominally inflates the country's Jewish population... There was an article in Yediot Ahronot a month ago about the daily abuse Ethiopian Jews face in Israel form other Jewish communities...
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
Zionism is not merely a Jewish-supremacist doctrine, it is also racist doctrine towards non-European Jews... In fact David Ben Gurion called Mizrahi Jews "Apes"and "Beasts" but advocated bringing them to Israel as cheap labour to fill the need for it in an all-Jewish society.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
True, the Ethiopian Jews were brought in as cheap labor and the European Jews look down on them.
I am trying to understand something-why are Europeans as a whole so Pro-Palestinian? Look at the way the Arabs treat women and gay people.
magickmatt138 4 years ago
Well again, I think stereotypes are overwhelming the discussion. The New York Times (hardly an antisemitic publication, obviously) reported on an incident in Israel on October 21st where a woman on board a bus was severely beaten by Orthodox Jews because she wouldn't sit in the back of the bus (away from the men). In fact, an Israeli soldier was beaten by the same people because he happened to be sitting next to the woman.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
Would you admit that the average Israeli is far more secular as compared to the average Palestinian?
magickmatt138 4 years ago
Well no, I do not. It would be very difficult to define and gauge such a question, but there is very objective evidence to the contrary. The State of Israel does NOT have constitution (really! look it up) because since 1948, a substantial part of Israeli society considers the Torah as the only constitution of Israel. Israel declares itself a Jewish State and discriminates between its Jewish and non-Jewish inhabitants...
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
By comparison, the PLO Charter is a completely secular document which recognizes pre-1948 Jewish inhabitants of Palestine as full-fledged Palestinian citizens.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
The PLO got their money from the Soviet Union. Arafat's "wife" did very well for herself once Yasar died of AIDS. The ANC said they'd protect whites once Apartheid was lifted, look at South Africa now. Sometimes, a society has to make compromises. The Israelis might be of the same stock as the Afrikaners are/were-but the alternative is always worse.
magickmatt138 4 years ago
I don't really see what the first part has to do with anything, but yes, LOOK at South Africa... Sure there is violence... Some people would call it "black on white violence" but you might as well call it "poor on wealthy" violence... But in fact, violence is much lower now than under the appartheid (how many people have been burnt alive since then?) and the country as a whole is carrying itself much better.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
The people that suffer the most are the poor white Afrikaners. The upper class whites live in gated communities and don't face violence. The Afrikaner Farmers are being terrorized by the blacks. If the Palestinians got control of the West Bank, the settlers would be killed-and the Palestinians would go medieval on the Jews.
magickmatt138 4 years ago
Well again, I'd say that the people who suffer the most are the poor, period! Be they Palestinians, Arab Jews, Ethiopian Jews, and the rest. But anyway, you're talking in maybes, but right now, the Israeli settlers ARE going medieval on Palestinians (not to mention journalists, international aid workers and Israeli human rights activists, just watch the videos recorded by B'Tselem or read about the Cave of the Patriarchs and other massacres) and they're supported by tanks and helicopters...
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
so if you're all about practicality, how about that army pull out those fundamentalist settlers and that'll be an nice start.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
Say what you will, but the Jews are good at Public Relations. Yes, they do kill Palestinians. The settlers are the "white trash" of Israeli soceity (straight from Brooklyn or Russia) As far the International Aid workers (I assume you mean the ISM) what are they doing there in the first place?
magickmatt138 4 years ago
Yes, well that "white trash" as you call is funded directly by the government and enjoys the support of the world's fourth largest army... And by aid workers I mean everything down to the International Red Cross, and thye're there to give food and medicine to children who can't leave their houses because of curfews, airstrikes, or the all too frequent Israeli Army bulldozer running through it.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
I have Gyros once a week at a Palestinian owned Deli. The owner was smart enough to leave and to get his family out. The Palestinians that stay perhaps in 2-3 generations may get a partial state, is it worth it?
magickmatt138 4 years ago
You have to admit, it is pretty funny that Southern Fundie Xians are now in bed with Godless Jews from the East Coast--and on the other side you have Godless Enlightned Gentiles aligned with Muslims.
magickmatt138 4 years ago
I know, it's so funny it makes me cry, but yeah, we've had a good run, take care!
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
Israel has been working to prevent the death of innocent people at the hands of Islamic extrmists such as groups like Hamas and Hezballah.Israel does not have a policy of indiscriminately killing people the way Islamist groups do.
Aramaic12 4 years ago
Israel definitely has to work hard for it's security, but i dont understand why they won't allow a Palestinian state.
One that can control its own borders, airspace, that is contiguous, etc.
Isn't that what Israel would want for itself?
4ourthofjuly 4 years ago
It's an unescapable fact that religious fundamentalists (from any religion) tend to adhere to archaic traditions which put down women... In fact, the people who, as you said, are stealing Palestinian land are often Orthodox Jews, and if you were to go to their communities, you might be pelted by stones (as some journalists have) if you try to speak to their women.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
Arab nations do not invite Palestinians since they want a reason to tell its citizens that their national problems are from Israel, when it really isn't. Those countries have a reason to make its citizens forget about its problems, so they keep Palestinians out to continue its propaganda. Do not forget that Palestinians in Lebanon are having a tough time.
saikosugi 4 years ago 2
It doesn't matter what Arab nations do, they are not the issue... The Palestinian refugees were massacred and expelled from their land. They have every right under international law to return to it, period!
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
Ever heard of Black September? Go read a history book you moron.
abealexander1 4 years ago
Read the comment before throwing your little factoids, you ignorant baby. Black September, the War of the Camps and Sabra and Chatilla (the latter carried out under the watchful eye and helping hand of the Israeli Army) do not negate the Palestinian refugees' right to come back to the land from which they WERE ETHNICALLY CLEANSED (that's the word used by Israeli historians themselves), if anything, it reinforces that right you unconscionable rube.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
And which one of the New Historians might that be, you mindless Chomsky drone? Hyperbole is so boring when you can't back up your claims with facts. Even Benny Morris acknowledges that 200,000-300,000 Palestinians left under orders from Arab leaders, not as the result of involuntary expulsion. The point of both my previous and present comment is that to lay the brunt of the blame for the refugee problem at Israel's feet is just intellectually dishonest.
abealexander1 4 years ago
First off, read Benny Morris's the Palestinian Refugee Problem REVISITED rather than cravenly sticking to his first effort on the matter. OF COURSE some Palestinians voluntarily left, they sure weren't going to wait to be massacred one by one, that STILL makes them refugees from a warzone and have the RIGHT under international law to come back to their lands. The BRUNT of the refugee problem? Israel IS the refugee problem: a racit segregationist state built on the genocide of Palestinians.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago 4
Read page 590 of the Refugee Problem Revisited. I'm just going to quote straight from Morris:
"Arab officers ordered the complete evacuation of specific villages in certain areas, lest their inhabitants 'treacherously' acquiesce in Israeli rule or hamper Arab military deployments." You see, the Arab National Committee in Jerusalem, following the March 8, 1948, instructions of the Arab Higher Committee, ordered women, children and the elderly in various parts of Israel to leave their homes:
abealexander1 4 years ago
"Any opposition to this order... is an obstacle to the holy war... and will hamper the operations of the fighters in these districts." The Arab Higher Committee also ordered the evacuation of "several dozen villages, as well as the removal of dependents from dozens more" in April-July 1948. "The invading Arab armies also occasionally ordered whole villages to depart, so as not to be in their way"
abealexander1 4 years ago
So, contrary to your claim that they left out of fear of IDF, Morris makes clear that they left for two reasons: (1) to prevent Palestinians from participating in Israeli citizenship and thus "acquiescing" in Israeli rule and (2) to make it easier for Arabs to wage their holy war on Jews.
abealexander1 4 years ago
Even putting Morris aside, listen to the words of Haled al Azm (Syrian PM 1948-49). He wrote in his memoirs: "Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return." Pages 386-87 of Pt.1 of the Memoirs.
Suck it recordkeeper and next time try coming with some facts and citations.
abealexander1 4 years ago
Again, as I said, no matter who said and done what, the Palestinian refugees were fleeing a warzone and have the inalienable right under international law to come back. And now for the meat. You rely extensivley on B.Morris so let's start from there: in the Birth..., he ascertains that out of 440 instances of arabs fleeing their villages, 215 were the result of military assaults on the village, 53 of expulsionby zionist armed forces, and only 6 by arab orders, which he explains thus...
therecordkeeper 4 years ago 2
Of course, we should also ask who was the aggressor? The Arabs started every conflict and every war since the late 19th century. Any Israeli action was a reluctant response to defend its citizens. Since the Arabs started the war which caused their citizens to flee, why should the Israelis have to make concessions to accomomodate the Arabs?
malone61 4 years ago
"Palestinian leaders and commanders struggled against [the exodus]' but in many cases encouraged evacuation of women children and old people out of harms way and in some cases ordered villages to evacuate" and then "The Arab evacuees from the towns and villages left largely because of Jewish (...) attacks or fear of impending attack" and "From early April [1948], operational orders for attacks on villages (...) more often than not called for the destruction of villages and (...) expulsion.'...
therecordkeeper 4 years ago 2
... Now to address the arab position, which as I have said, whatever it may be, does not put into question the right of return "radio broadcast transcripts from the relevant time period [showed] that not only were there no orders to evacuate, but in fact the populace was continually urged to remain" S.Glazer, The Palestinian Exodus in 1948 (1980). And I refer you to the earlier B.Morris quote, regarding that very same issue. And try to refrain from obscene comments, it's a sign of weakness.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
a Nazi fanatic who believes in torture and mass murder.
Shameful. Hey, at least -when put to the task- he's quick to cry anti-semitism.
rodeo179 4 years ago
Its true that there is a disproportionate amount of coverage regarding the Palestinians verses other oppressed people like the Tibetans. But the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a huge concern in this country because of the amount of aid that we give to Israel. 10 million dollars a day is what makes it our business.
michaelmerta 4 years ago
Well again, the Tibetans don't have an occupation that is destroying destroying their homes killing their people and expelling them from their lands to install settlers who just happen to be from "the right religion" EVERY DAY. Of course their are other people suffering, but that's why the Palestinians get so much (too little actually) coverage, because every day, Palestinian civillians are killed in their own homes.
therecordkeeper 4 years ago
There will *always* be militant Israeli's who will settle for nothing less than annexing the land that they see as their "holy land", and militant Hamas that hate all Jewish people. But the massive funding puts a responsibility upon Israel. but also remember, if peace ever "broke out", Israeli funding could end ! and there are MANY people (maybe including Olmert?) who will say "peace", but do their best to make sure that money flow continues (i.e. make sure the conflict NEVER ends).
roysubs 4 years ago
True...there are good Israelis and bad Israelis as well as good Palestinians and bad Palestinians. Each side has its extremists. But, the real prosperity (for both sides) begins when there is peace. It can be a win-win for both sides. Thanks for the discussion, Roysubs. Peace be with you in the New Year!!!
A528107 4 years ago
I do have basic trust. BUT ...
1. Israel can justify any action, including torture and mass suffering of innocents by saying Hamas are insane.
2. Hamas are hate-motivated, and talk about killing everybody. that hate was partly created by Israel and partly created by themselves.
1 feeds into 2 which feeds into 1 etc. cyclic. pointless.
my basic belief is that talks will stall around next June, and the "Israeli Standard Annexation Policy" will continue.
I *HOPE* I am wrong ...
roysubs 4 years ago
The Israeli Supreme Court outlawed torture and physical pressure in 1999. Israel shares a responsibility for the suffering, but not all of it. You only have to look to the leadership of Chairman Arafat, who stole millions from his people, for culpability. You may be right about the talks stalling. I hope you're wrong, too.
A528107 4 years ago
You call the UN "impotent and disgusting". but they are just the voices of the nations of this planet. they are not a power to act, but an ethics committee. 99% of the countries of the world condemn Israel, not "singling out" Israel, as other countries are also condemned for their crimes. Other countries may be worse, but Israel's crimes are the issue of those 60 UN resolutions. Israel will rightly be condemned by all decent nations of the world until they stop terrorsim and leave Palestine.
roysubs 4 years ago
What do you mean by 'leave Palestine'? Are you advocating all Israelis just abandon Israel and head to Europe and the United States? Please clarify.......(Please keep in mind that it was a U.N. resolution which validated Israel as a country in 1948)
A528107 4 years ago
no, of course not. Israel have a right to exist and not be occupied by an aggresor (yes, Israel are there for "defensive action", seriously, does ANYONE actually believe this) and so do the Palestinians. Israel should leave to the borders as laid down in UN resolution 242. as of that moment, peace becomes a viability. it's one thing to say "we won't leave until they stop terrorism", but that is hyprocrisy. the occupation itself is ALSO terrorism.
roysubs 4 years ago
Resolution 242 does not delineate specific borders. It was actually left vague so that Palestinians and Israelis could negotiate the specific borders. Israel accepted and the Arabs rejected Resolution 242 after the '67 war. Yes, the occupation was a response to the violence that followed. Both Egypt and Jordan were the previous occupiers.
A528107 4 years ago
leave the occupied territory first. tear down the walls and remove all so-called "settlers" (this is the wrong word. if i build settlements in occupied invaded territory, that is annexation).
leaving would immediately say that Israel are serious about peace. Politicians the world over lie, and the Israeli's are lying more than most. they want that land. If i hold a knife at your throat for 30 years, and then say "I CAN'T TAKE THE KNIFE AWAY COS HE MIGHT PUNCH ME IF I DO!" would i be right?
roysubs 4 years ago
What is the occupied territory??? Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran say it's ALL of Israel. All of Israel should be wiped off the map according to Iran's president. Should they also tear down the walls in Tel Aviv to make Hamas happy? They just left the GAZA strip and tore down the settlements there. Islamic Jihad is still firing rockets, Roysubs..WHY????
A528107 4 years ago
obfuscation. Iran's president not relevant and he is insane.. YES, a lot of Hamas are raving lunatics. but they are firing rockets as after more than 30 years of occupation, they are STILL VERY ANGRY. i mean, that's just TOTALLY obvious to anyone with eyes right ?? and they will be angry until they are appeased. these are not sheep, they are humans you know. only a fool would think leaving means "instant-peace" and I already said that earlier.
roysubs 4 years ago
Haha, you even bothered to give all my texts thumbs down ratings... my god. Listen, I thought I could win a war of attrition and get you to give up. You win, you are far more immature than I am. I tried, but at 22 I can only dedicate so much time out of my life to preventing this garbage from suffocating fair discussion in public forums. Go ahead, go hunt down intelligent people and harangue them with your putrid hatred and misinformation.
countertreason 4 years ago
there is no winner. i don't win. i hate no one. i don't call anyone "you dirty little Scot". you do. The only winners are people that get to live in relatively "ok" democracies such as the UK or Canada, so we are lucky. Israel is a disgrace, as they terrorise a neighbouring people and call it "defensive action" while the kill ratio is about 10 dead Palestinians to every 1 dead Israeli. With kill ratio's like that, it takes a very blind man to think the Israel are moral or ethical.
roysubs 4 years ago
I don't understand your logic. Why would the side in a conflict with the fewer casualties be less moral? During World War II, Germany had a much higher number of killed than the U.S. Are you saying that the U.S wasn't moral or ethical then?
A528107 4 years ago
Germany annexed Sudentenland calling it a "defensive" action to rescue true Germans (see any similarity with the language that Israeli regime use?). also, Hitler said "People are so bothered by the way we're treating the Jews. They can't understand it". Germans heard their leader say this so, sheeplike, supported a lunatic. Israeli's say non-Israeli's can't understand the occupation, but we do, its an occupation, and yes, terror was/is inflicted on Israel, but this is an equal act of terrorism.
roysubs 4 years ago
You didn't answer my question. No...I don't see the similarity in your analogy. Israel has withdrawn from Gaza and will give back other territory in exchange for peace. So far, ending the Gaza occupation hasn't resulted in greater acceptance of Israel by Hamas. So, your argument is flawed.
A528107 4 years ago
the point I was making is that the Allies were responding to a massive war of aggression, and the only way that could end was with the utter suppresion of the Nazi war machine, so of course more Germans were going to die. Israel, a vastly more powerful force invaded Palestine. yes, the Palestinians also did wrong. It doesn't matter if Israel were morally right at first, they MADE themselves a disgrace by a continued occupation with only one REAL, HONEST(!) purpose : annexation. that's a disgrace
roysubs 4 years ago
Incorrect. Israel has returned captured land to both Egypt and Jordan as part of peace agreements with these countries. It also offered to turn over nearly all of the remaining territory (captured from Jordan) to the Palestinians during Taba and Camp David in 2000, but Arafat rejected it. Your 'annexation' argument doesn't hold water.
Israel didn't simply 'invade' Palestine. These territories were captured in a defensive war.
A528107 4 years ago
that's funny. it's one of those "technically true" statements that neglects the reality. decades of building settlements in occupied territory (Israel say "we will give up the settlements when peace happens!" but then, um, WHY BUILD THEM THEN!?!?). this is clear annexation intent. slow, sure, suffocation. and the walls ... well ... castrating communities. that's truth. Israel may not be Stalinist Russia, but morally wrong is wrong. the "ACTUAL" intent is clear to all but a blind man.
roysubs 4 years ago
Either a statement is true or untrue. I'm just presenting you with the facts. You're just presenting me with words like 'Stalinist', 'suffocation' and 'castrating.' Emotional words that have no meaning without facts. Fact: Israel has and will trade land for peace. Fact: Israel unilaterally has torn down settlements in Gaza and will do the same in the West Bank for peace. But where's the peace? There was no peace between 48 and 67 when there was no occupation. What's your explanation?
A528107 4 years ago
you didn't answer my question. why build settlements if this is not annexation ?
politicians are lunatics, Israeli politicians also. they want to stamp their names on history, they want to the be the ones that rid the world of those "damn arabs" in the Holy Land and be "Jewish Heroes" by winning back the promised land, hence the settlements/annexation. i'd sooner trust a hungry bear than a politician (and yes, that applies to both sides - but right is right, and the settlements are wrong).
roysubs 4 years ago
Because no permanent boundaries were ever set. We don't know what will eventually be Israeli territory and what will be Palestinian territory final borders. Prior to Abbas, no Palestinian leader was willing to accept the two-state solution (Palestine and Israel living in peace side by side) If one had, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now, would we????
A528107 4 years ago
if a settlement was built on a disputed "final border zone", i might agree. but settlements built DEEP within the west bank. no. no amount of political "honey-speak" can make that look other than it is. the spread of those settlements is a 100% pure "we are going to take ALL of this land, and we don't give a f*ck".
i try and be hopeful about the statement today. but, Israel are untrustworthy, and Hamas are insane so I don't hold much hope.
roysubs 4 years ago
The reality is that Israelis view some of these settlements as huge mistakes. Even a hard-liner like Sharon viewed the Gaza settlements as a big blunder. The deep ones will be dismantled.
If you don't trust Israel or the U.S., why not put some trust in Abbas and the Arab countries who are genuinely trying to put an end to the stalemate through negotiation? Anything else just prolongs the agony.
A528107 4 years ago
Come on subs, just admit it. You only win arguments when the other side finds you to ridiculous or unpleasant to debate with to continue. You are not right, you have never been right. You are wrong and anti-semitic. Just accept your resounding loss today and find a new place to bully sensible people. I am not going to give it to you. You need to remember that, in the end, you are wrong, your just making yourself feel better.
countertreason 4 years ago
u funny. you feel the need to say you have "won" something. over and over. why do you have this need ? is that not quite "bullying" ? resounding loss ? not really. saddened that people simply accept Israel's crimes without ever questioning them, yes. there are crimes on both sides, but Isreal's killed nearly 10 times more people than the desperate Palestinians. 10 times. pretty clear who the aggressor is there ...
roysubs 4 years ago
It is not quite bullying, one does suffer a defeat when they stake their credibility on a cause and they are shown to be incredulous by that cause's lack of merit. I would feel defeated in your shoes at least. Israel does kill more, it is stronger. That doesn't mean anything in terms of who the aggressor is. The aggressor is the one who infringes. Only if you believe Israel shouldn't exist could you say that it is not the Palestinians who won't stop infringing.
countertreason 4 years ago
oh, just thought i'd mention one of your other racist statements ... "You are a racist dirty little Scot." pretty damn racist. try replacing "Scot" with Jew or black or African, or Israeli, and tell yourself that's not hate-filled racism ... it will take a lot to convince yourself that calling someone a "dirty little Scot" is acceptable language ... but knowing you, I know you will imagine that it is fine and you are not racist ;)
roysubs 4 years ago
HAHA WHAT?! MY GOD MAN! You serious? I am not Irish to you so I am just white. Am I a white-hating-white? Is that what I am? HAHA! MY GOD! You really are desperate! You really will say anything! You even pre-defended yourself! Seriously, is this a joke? Scots have a culture, you retarded, near brain dead, desperate, hanging on, sad, sad, sad, angry, pathetic, lamentable, little, little, tiny, dismal 'man.'
countertreason 4 years ago
you said your dad was "the victim of racist abuse" ... for being Irish ? so by your own argument, you ARE a white-hating-white ... your hypocrisy and contradiction there is absolute.
you said "Scots have a culture, you retarded, near braind dead ..." ... so was your father "racially abused" or culturally abused ? come on man, any ability to see the gaps in your own arguments there ? at all ? any pease rattling about in that skull ?
roysubs 4 years ago
come on man, you said daddy was the victim of "racist abuse" but then say calling someone a dirty Scot is not racist abuse, so if they called him a dirty Irishman, that's not racist abuse by your bizarre definitions.
I bet you a million dollars no one EVER called him a "dirty Celt". oh, by the way, I have loads of freckles cos of my Celtic race. you want to abuse me for that? you started all this "culture/race" thing but you are mixing your definitions all over the place. u r funny as fuck ;o)
roysubs 4 years ago
Fuck this... listen roysubs... you have been comprehensively proven wrong on everything, have cited factually incorrect information on numerous occasions, turned out to be an anti-semite. You are a joke. You will never be graced with power and respectability, that is reserved for people with sense. I shall take solace in the fact you have been on the defensive the whole time. You are a weak asshole and support other weak assholes.
countertreason 4 years ago
oh, really? comprehensively? "factually incorrect information" ? please, an example instead of just lying?
if you need to lie repeatedly, and make racist comments to "feel solace", then I am not surprised your ambition is to be a policeman. you want to beat up others to feel righteous. you've not shown a single thing i've said that's wrong. weakness is swearing and shouting. i stand by everything i said not defensively (i don't need to be defensive, as i'm saying the true).
u funny & weak ;)
roysubs 4 years ago
You got defeated on Scottish history and gave up. You havent acknowledge you are Jew-fearing anti-semite. You accuse me of being racist but cant explain how. That is what makes you an expert in the argumentative practice. You are so reasonable. The 18th century French would have definitely called you Lady Reason. More wisdom please.
countertreason 4 years ago
defeated? but your understanding of history is a joke, it's embarressing.
I don't fear Jews or anyone.
you are a racist as you say over and over that Palestinians are a lesser species "some are good, but most are not" while Jews are "all great", truly perfect people. to identify people by RACE and disparage people by RACE, *is* the definition of RACISM. see, I have explained how you are racist, over and over. u r too dumb to comprehend.
roysubs 4 years ago
Yah, your done. You are like the drunk who has taken a beating from a guy far better than him and bloody and mangled keeps egging on his superior. Should I continue the beating? Yah. Unjustified statement. Incorrect statement, otherwise, why imply that we should fear Jews? Palestinian is not a race. I specifically spoke of 'culture', but you don't know English well, I suggest you look it up. You have explained how I have cultural prejudice.
countertreason 4 years ago
cultural prejudice ;o) ... shit dude, you don't have prejudice, you HATE. if Israel toture people, that's ok to you as they are "all great". if they abuse people on a daily basis, again ok, cos they are "all great". there is NOTHING that Israel could ever do that is wrong in your eyes. if they shoot any civilian, that's collatoral damage. if they kill some children that's ok. u hate. i won't talk to you about history cos u are so embarressing. and all that saying i support Galloway. too dumb.
roysubs 4 years ago
You permit the bombing of Israeli buses, the capture of Israeli soldiers, the rocketing of Israeli cities, the murder and rape of Israeli settlers, this includes children. All this is OK with you as long as Israel continues to be Jews in Muslim land occupying further Muslim lands and enforcing obeissance in these lands. Isn't it? I think Israel is making much more reasonable demands.
countertreason 4 years ago
i "permit" it ? do i ? when did i say that ? would that be "never" ? yes, again, another lie, that's great man. lie upon lie upon lie. any murder is a crime. people who bomb Israeli buses are criminals. i've always said that. but the kill rate is about 10 to 1. that's 10 dead Palestinians for every 1 dead Israeli. so for each 1 Israeli bus there is an equivalent of 10 buses of dead Palestinians. that's not criminal ?
roysubs 4 years ago
No, you are powerless, you permit nothing. You would permit is the proper expression, intelligent people make assumptions like that given our situation as two citizens of countries not involved in the conflict. The kill rate depends on the year. In the 2000 intifada, it was 550 Palestinians to 170 Israelis in the first year. I said that stronger countries kill more. That is the way the world works.
countertreason 4 years ago
yes, i said that. i said i permit nothing. i have no say over such things. why are you repeating what i say and trying to make out that you made a point? Israel bombed 900 civilians last summer. they bombed them to death. it was pointless murder.
roysubs 4 years ago
I, on the other hand, demonstrated your fear of a whole religious group. That is much more egregious that fearing a cultural group. I like Persians, I don't fear Islam. That is a cultural group. I think Lebanese are a lot more chill than Palestinians. Well, actrually, in your defense, I know a lot more about people from the region. You speak out of a lot of truly gross ignorance.
countertreason 4 years ago
demonstrated? unjustified statement (i'll just play your silly game back at you).
I never said you fear Islam, you just want whatever the terrorists in charge of Israel want, and don't give a shit about breaches of human rights as if they want to breach human right, well, you will support it completely. sheeplike.
roysubs 4 years ago
That is right, use my tactics. Admit that I am better than you. Copy me. Now copy my opinions and this can all be over. Hahaha. I am exacerbating your insecurities. I just want Israel to live in absolute peace. I don't want to see another fucking rocket or satchel laced man kill Jews in the name of anti-semitism. I want this shit to stop. I know that Israel cutting shit out isn't going to stop anti-semitism or land claims. 'Reason' helps me figure out all sorts of things.
countertreason 4 years ago
yes, you are a peace loving, people loving humanitarian. you want "Israel" to live in peace, but not "Palestine". Israel lives in peace, and Palestine lives in misery. and that's "ok" by you. i note you never ever talk about the 10 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli. that's interesting. their deaths are meaningless to you.
roysubs 4 years ago
check you out ! "egregious", and "ad hominem". hehe, you are very good at copying words that Dershowitz uses all the time. you make a good parrot. still trying to win something are you counterintellect ? always trying to feel that you have "won". go on, say you've won again ...
roysubs 4 years ago
You might profit from looking them up in a dictionary. Expand your vocabulary. Don't just work on your historical and theoretical knowledge, do a full overhaul. You need a lot of work done on your mind. I am a parrot? I parrot dictionaries. You have said nothing I haven't heard one hundred times before. You are boring. You say nothing new. You are not interesting. You are emotional.
countertreason 4 years ago
u r funny. that's a really weak retort.
roysubs 4 years ago
'He who sheds the blood of the Goyim, is offering a sacrifice to God.' (Talmud -- Jalqut Simeoni)
'Israel won the war [WW I]; we made it; we thrived on it; we profited from it. It was our supreme revenge on Christianity.'
(The Jewish Ambassador from Austria to London, Count Mensdorf, 1918).
a peaceful people. a people who care for their fellow man (if they are Jew, that is, and if not, kill them, all non-Jew are less than worthless).
roysubs 4 years ago
OK, so now since we have established that you are an