When they ran the memorials for Eunice they were talking about the work she did for the special olympics and they were mentioning her sister as being disabled but were saying it in a way that did give any implication of what was DONE to her to make her that way.
Also, at the time this was made, my cranky video was the only thing on Rosemary.
she had an iq of 90 could do math but her siblings had iq's of 160 so shunned by her father who later wrote having rosemary institutionalised helped the family to get on with achieving higher goals in their lives the fact that he had her siblings shun her exclude her etc,wouldn't this cause anxiety.depression and rages in anyone it did lead to mental illness.What a loving,caring and nurturing family-not jo never visited her
It's all just very sad, but Rosemary wasn't alone back then. Others who had lobotomies and weren't Kennedy's got tossed aside as well, and I'm sure got left without visits, and the families too ashamed to talk about them. She wasn't alone, and it really is very sad.
not trying to be rude because I'm assuming that's not your real voice, but this vid is sort of creepy with the irritating voice and darkness of it. If it is your real voice, I'm sorry. It's probably just the darkness of the video that's making it more creepy.
A lobotomy was cutting edge surgery back then to do something to help the mentally ill. Who knows what her parents were thinking when they made the decision, but they had money, so wanted to get the best help they could give her. Unfortunately, it wasn't discovered until later that this type of surgery was doing more harm than good. She was a guinea pig in mental illness like so many others have and continue to be. People who aren't manic depressive/schizophrenic/retarded/challenged, etc
@desperategirl932 even today people who do not have mental problems can't wrap their heads around the disease/illness. They get irritated by it, pissed off by it, and just have no sympathy or understanding of it. Cancer for some reason we all can understand whether we've lived with it or not., but mental illness is just something we're suppose to shake off. In regards to Rosemary, it's very sad, but she wasn't alone back then, and I'm sure it was devastating for her family, but they also
@desperategirl932 were a very public family and built around the government. They kept it private because back then and today people don't get mental illness. It's just like being gay or lesbian. people lie about it who are in the public eye because people don't get it and it would ruin their chances in government or the acting/music career or whatever career they have. until people are more open to learn about these things, the Rosemary's of society will continue to be put in the dark.
Such may be true. But they gave her the surgery because she displayed typical every day behaviors like wanting boyfriends or simply speaking out of turn from what they thought to be acceptable. They cut out her brain to help their political future.Therefore, the surgery may be cutting edge (even quite literally) but they had it done for shady reasons and they knew it would alter her mind, and she probably had no say in their decision making.
@sethmanrockandroll Neither of us really know what her state of mind was back then. I've heard both sides. I've heard people close to her back then said her mind was like a child's, and she'd have crazy, uncontrollable outbursts. Others are similar to yours. I'm sure her family loved her and wanted the best for her, but I also agree with you that they were the Kennedys, they had a lot of money, they were politically sewn, and their image was important to them probably more so at times than
You make a good point. I don't know "for sure". I can tell you she was smart enough to write and keep a journal, so I presume she didn't have "the mind of a child". As for the severity of her outbursts, I again don't know.
The media, however, talked a lot about the Special Olympics and the charitable contributions of the Kennedy family when Eunice died. They also mentioned Rosemary as mentally challenged, but said nothing of how she got that way! Cover up...Cover up..
@sethmanrockandroll agreed that they should feel some shame (those still alive, including Maria Shriver) that they just swept her under the rug, but also....those things are a really private matter and what were they to say? "My dad took Rosemary to get a lobotomy because he was told it would help her. When it didn't, he didn't own up to it and kept us all away from her and what happened." As far as the diaries, again we don't know. Some say that they weren't really her writings. After all,
@desperategirl932 how did the public get the diaries when the Kennedy's covered up murders/lobotomy's...how could they not dispose of a diary in their own home? Makes no sense. Again, we can only speculate, but I think we can both agree that a Dr. Freeman was a quack, and he should have been put in prison for murder and destroying lives. Mental illness still today is not handled appropriately in most cases, but there are still so many unknowns. The mind is so complex.
@sethmanrockandroll the care of their daughter. I know that after her lobotomy, she got the best treatment at that time in the school. She was a Kennedy, so she had gold treatment compared to the others in that institution who probably had similar stories of mental suffering. The Kennedys made a lot of stuff disappear. I have no doubt that Ted Kennedy killed that woman. It wasn't an accident. I don't blame Joe Jr. for the accident that left a woman paralyzed, and he did pay a lot more
@sethmanrockandroll more than the person without the money, and I believe he's still taking care of her, and she most likely still wants more. That was really just an accident. BUT the plane crash with John Jr. was not an accident. He put his life and others in his hands when he was not licensed to flight under IFR conditions. That whole thing really made me mad that people didn't see that it was manslaughter. He had a responsibility as a pilot (a new VFR pilot), but he was a Kennedy and
@desperategirl932 thought he was above the law. BUT if there is such a thing as payback to an evil, I believe this is what happened to the Kennedy's after Joe made the decision to give his daughter a lobotomy then erase her basically from his family. I think most Americans who still worship the family have no idea that she ever existed. I wish a news reporter would dig deep into the story, and report on it. I think it would be interesting, but not many people still alive to dig too far. :)
By Jean Kennedy Smith, Eunice Kennedy Shriver, Patricia Kennedy Lawford and Edward M. Kennedy
Published: Thursday, December 3, 1992
As children of Joseph P. Kennedy and Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy, we categorically reject the misjudgments, mischaracterizations, insinuations and outright falsehoods about our family relationships portrayed in the book "J.F.K., Reckless Youth" and repeated by many reviewers.
I will not rehash our discussion of Rosemary Kennedy's lobotomy- we disagree about the m reasons her father chose to have the it done. Nor will I comment further on your seeming hatred of the Kennedy's and adoration of Nixon- a man who had very serious and disturbing character flaws. I respect your right to have your own opinions. Your list of "facts" and the comments in the message you sent to me have convinced me that I should not communicate with you regarding these issues any longer.
Those are strong words from someone who keeps flocking to my video to comment, and some one who posted a long PR response from the Kennedy family in several installments and personal messages.
I too respect your right to dissent, which is why I will never delete any of your posts.
We recognize that honest historians, biographers and journalists have differed and will continue to differ about the achievements and activities of members of our family. Since the days when our grandparents Patrick J. Kennedy and John F. Fitzgerald first became involved in public life a century ago, our family has received extended scrutiny, much of it favorable, some of it harsh, most of it fair, but some of it keyed to sensationalism and exploitation for profit, regardless of truth.
The book's repeated allegations of abusive family relations are outrageous falsehoods. It is grotesque to compare our father to Stalin. It is preposterous to call any of us "abused" children. Our parents gave us love, support and encouragement throughout their lives. Contrary to the malicious portrayal in this book, they were devoted and caring parents who lavished affection and attention on all of us.
Dad's love for Mother was obvious to us and to their friends. Concern for others, especially those less fortunate than ourselves, was instilled in us from the beginning. It was a reflection of our parents' basic values, starting with their love for each other.
The author's claim that Mother "never kissed or touched and rarely saw" her children is ridiculous. She read countless bedtime stories to us and read to us for hours at a time when we were sick. She took us for walks in our strollers and piled us into the family station wagon to go swimming at Walden Pond or for an outing on Cape Cod.
Our earliest childhood memories are of exchanging goodnight kisses with Mother and Dad every night. We continued that habit throughout our lives whenever we were with them, even as adults, and our brother continued to do so as President.
It is especially revealing that nowhere does the author quote the best-known phrase that Jack often used in describing Mother, that she was the "glue that held our family together."
That is exactly what she was, as anyone who knows anything about our family will attest.
The dominant value that all of us continually felt in growing up was the importance of each of us in the family. Dad and Mother set high standards for us, and their love and support for each another and for us made those standards livable and reachable.
In their lifetime, they suffered the losses of four children whom they loved very much, and who loved them deeply in return. Joe, Jack, Bobby and Kathleen meant the world to us, to each other and to our parents, and they would not recognize the cruel and uncaring family this book describes. In speaking out together now, the four of us have no doubt whatever that we also speak for them and for our sister Rosemary.
Above all, Mother and Dad made our home a wonderfully happy and loving one for all their children. We honor them for the love, wisdom, care and strength they gave us throughout their lives.
Any so-called biography that tries to take our parents from us, that gets this basic fact about our family wrong, is not worth the paper it is printed on.
Thank you for bringing her tragedy to peoples attention Her father actually lobotomized her because she was acting moody as her father put it she actually was having depression and back then lobotomizes were considered a cure for things such as depression mental illnesses and suicidal behavior. she was a 23 year old in her prime that loved to novels the theater and gossip. because of her father ignorance she was reduced to an infant like state not being able to speak, becoming mentally incapable
You're a good person, thank you for applauding me!
I figured it was quite bizarre to find no video that covered this subject any where on youtube. I hope this video encourages any one with the right materials to come forward with their own videos about Rosemary, and to have the people responsible for what they had done as well as the others who left everyone in the dark about it.
The fact remains that you have chosen to condemn and slander and defame the name of decent, good human beings like JFK , RFK , and their sister Eunice-despite the fact that this family, imperfect as we all are, have done so much to help other people in need, all their lives. I could continue about the good works of all the Kennedys, Shrivers, Lawfords and Jean Kennedy Smith, but I will not. You worship war mongers and hate decent humans. Good bye.
That is not fact, I never said anything unsavory about Eunice. I said the Media did not accurately report the sister's predicament. I said that the media was lying, and I guess the family is keeping Rosemary in the dark because mine is the only video that discusses her apparently.
It was the Kennedys who turned their noses at Nixon for coming from a poor working class family, it was Jack who hurt his feelings just like anyone else...... and you can glue your lips to their cold dead asses.
Now that I'm thinking, maybe you were right. I shouldn't be so hard on John and his brother.
They were a little spoiled by the press, but I see nothing that says they should die. I enforce my point that there were reasons to kill them, just as there are many reasons to kill any world ruler, but the two brothers are no more sinful than anyone else on this planet. Myself included. I'll still enforce what I said about the father, but I regret some harsh words about the sons. Sorry, and God Bless.
There is no attempt to justify anything. Lobotomies were routinely advised by doctors for decades. Joseph Kennedy followed their advice with admittedly tragic results. Rosemary was suffering from far more than depression- watching and listening to films of her prove this- but does not mean I approve of what was done to her- I don't. This guy is obsessed with condemning the Kennedy's - even approving of the murders of JFK and RFK- yet worshiping war mongering mass murderers like Nixon.
I truly do hope you do get the mental help that you need. Unlike during Rosemary Kennedy's early lifetime, there are many effective treatments available. The fact that you dismiss the murders of John F. and Robert F. Kennedy as acceptable indicate show evidence of a severe disturbance in judgement and psychopathic babble. May God bless you and send you the help you deserve as a human being in a severe state of psychological pain.
Listen, buddy. Its a free country (the one I live in). And I don't need to resort to assigning mental illnesses to people I don't know when they don't agree with me. Moreover, I don't believe in mental illnesses because I hold people accountable by their actions, not by their appearances or their speech impediments.
Kennedy's father had his daughter's brain scraped out. John made plans to have people bumped off, and Robby Kennedy tore into Jimmy Hoffa with nothing more than a personal grudge.
There was never a reference to anyone's speech patterns or appearance. Sadly, presidents make decision that lead to the deaths of innocents- just as your hero, Nixon, did when he ordered the bombing and murders of thousands in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. The fact remains that you dismiss the murders of the Kennedy brothers as acceptable. This is an indication of a psychological problem. Although I believe that Nixon was deeply disturbed, I would never approve any acts of violence against him.
Eh, hem? You're saying that I appear to be crazy and should seek help.
Nixon is smarter than the Kennedy's and that is why he outlived them. Ultimately he was laced with the burdens of THEIR PROBLEMS which did not become resolved until Nixon (and then Ford) took care of real business.
Joe Kennedy bought the 1960 election for his kid, and deciding world leaders through underhanded means should naturally indicate the potential for a death or many deaths to knock on your family's door.
The perceived level of one's intelligence is not an indicator of life span. JFK signed NSAM 163 to begin withdrawal from Vietnam. After his murder, which you approve of, Johnson escalated the war- as did Nixon- until realized that the unpopularity of Vietnam might cost him reelection in '72- he would have lost in '68 to Robert Kennedy by the way- but RFK was also, in an other other act you approve of, murdered. Nixon caused the end of own career by corruption and crime.
I might be forgetting some of my own quotes, but I thought I said that I UNDERSTOOD why he was killed, not that I approved or disapproved. The turmoil of losing a president will often shake the power structure and make us feel like we're living in a third world country.
I believe that the Kennedy's are dirtier than they appear to be, and I have affection for more than a few of their political enemies such as Nixon, Hoffa, and even Hoover (to some extent).
You said " There are more than a few good reasons to knock off certain Kennedy people" this statement clearly indicates your approval, justification and advocacy of the murders and even other murders.
Joe Sr deserves death for having his daughter's brain scraped out. John leaked military information during his debates with Nixon, he also had a big mouth and tiny fists (which means that he talked tough against the Commi's while secretly trying to kill Castro, but he wimped out of any full scale attack and he gave the Russians what they wanted when they were trying to intimidate us with their nukes.). He and Bobby allegedly shared sex with Marylin Monroe, which is a biblical act of incest.
Joseph Kennedy died of natural causes as the result of a stroke- not as a punishment for a crime you allege -JFK actually did attempt to invade Cuba, but failed. He was murdered because he decided to stop a plan to kill Castro and pursue peaceful negotiations. Your facts on the Cuban Missile Crisis are wrong: the Russians left Cuba after JFK threatened to invade if they did not leave. The USSR backed down & withdrew. JFK and RFK did not have a threesome with Monroe , thus there was no incest.
Not a "threesome", two brothers were allegedly with the same girl on opposite one on one occasions. That is a biblical act of incest.
I didn't say for a fact that Joe was "punished", I said he deserved everything he got.
The russians may have left cuba, but we withdrew fire power from Germany in return. The Kennedy's were wimps because they were overrating the Russians just like every president before them. MacArthur would've burned a hole right through China if Truman had carried more balls.
Since I am a spiritual and moral person and do not believe in organized religion as such, references to the Bible mean nothing to me. If the Kennedy brothers did indeed have relationships with Monroe , I would agree that if they were guilty of infidelity they committed acts that probably caused their spouses and families a great amount of pain. -but incest- no- I will never accept this definition of what they they in your words "allegedly" engaged in.
And I'm also no one one to judge, I certainly don't know of them doing this for sure, but these are the sort of things floating around.
My video is the truth, Rosemary had her brains scraped out. She was not "mentally ill". I felt the media was irresponsible for not reporting what she really went through. It was never an attack against Eunice, and the other stuff was mentioned in passing.
In your opinion Joseph Kennedy - "bought the 1960 election for his kid, and deciding world leaders through underhanded means should naturally indicate the potential for a death or many deaths to knock on your family's door.'' This indicates that it is your belief that Joseph, John and Robert Kennedy all deserved to die. I would refer back to the teachings of Jesus Christ- Since you refer to the bible- and read about his thoughts on "casting stones" and "judging others."
I'd like you to read other scripture from exactly how power changed hands in former times, and I'd like you to learn the particulars of war.
Joe Sr. deserved to die, and his underhanded ways placed the two sons in harms way when they became viable military targets and controversial public officials. John is foolish for not taking the right security precautions. Nixon would've researched every detail of his own personal safety and thats why he didn't simply get shot when he was overthrown.
I don't refer to people who use peaceful means to end conflict as wimps. Truman dropped an atomic bomb on Japan, is this wimpy to you, not enough dead?
I'm confused- you're outraged about the alleged sexual lives of JFK and RFK and a lobotomy that was considered an accepted treatment at the time- and you may be right in both cases- BUT - you find no problem with people who advocated and pursued violence and war on a large scale causing millions of deaths- like Nixon and McArthur.
I was speaking theoretically of their ALLEGED affair with Monroe. Not officially. MacArthur would've saved time, lives, and money if he had been allowed to use the full strength of our military to crush our Red Opponents. I am bothered at the fact that we were swatting mosquitoes around the elephant, which was Russia, and that we piss ourselves scared for every two-bit dictator with a nuke. We hit the weaklings like a big kid who never picks on his own size, and we screw that up too.
I'm lenient on Nixon (bombing Cambodia, which you seem to be getting at) because we didn't even have an understanding of who we were friends with at the time of that bombing. There's an old saying that the South Vietnamese "never stepped on any land mines, as if they already knew they were there".
Nixon and Kennedy suffer from the fact that they were out of place. If their elections had been switched around, if Joe Sr had kept his mafia out of our country's decision making, all would be right.
Japan was training its soldiers to fight to the death, and the other soldiers like Hiroo Onada were trained to stay alive and fight "until further instruction". Onada was fighting WWII all the way into the 70s or 80s if I recall. Truman's atomic bomb was the carrot to the seal the deal, its the reason they accepted defeat, and it may have saved their lives in the long run.
I know fights where I've retracted my fists, I'll stand there and take hits, stand there thinking, doing nothing.
Eunice Shriver wrote about her sister in an article in Life Magazine soon after JFK was elected. She spent her life devoted to helping the intellectually challenged. Your comments about a family which has dedicated its life to helping others are untrue. DOCTORS TOLD ROSEMARY'S FATHER THE OPERATION WOULD HELP HER. THIS IS WHY IT WAS PERFORMED. HE TRUSTED THEM. THE KENNEDY FAMILY HAS NEVER HIDDEN THE FACT THAT THEIR SISTER WAS ILL. learn the facts before you make hurtful and false statements.
I was speaking of the Media, first of all, and the family second.
The media never said anything about the brain scraping during the entire time they covered the death of Eunice and how she did so much for her "mentally disabled" sister. If Nixon had something like this happen to his sister, the press would tear him alive, but they give they give the Kennedys a free ticket for mayhem.
Mrs. Shriver never did anything to her sister but help her and thousands of other intellectually challenged people. Unfortunately, Rosemary was born with some disabilities. The surgery was performed on her, and thousands of others during those years, to help her condition- this procedure was medically accepted at the time and thought to be effective. This turned out to be untrue. Any statement that she was subjected to this to "shut her up" is a lie. She was ill before the procedure.
The way mentally ill people were treated in the past is in itself, a holocaust. Hitler is often labeled the most evil man to walk this earth, yet doctors who performed such heinous experiments and "treatments" on people with mental illness, were touted as heroes and geniuses.
The instrument used on Rosemary is called a leucotome. Freeman bored two holes in her head and inserted this device blindly into her brain. The only anesthesia used was the electroshock which rendered her temporary unconscious. During the "operation" she was allowed to regain consciousness and the "doctor" assessed her mental condition while stabbing into her brain. It is said when she became incoherent, "Dr" Freeman knew to stop. The "operation" rendered her horrifically brain damaged. Sad
Joe Kennedy had Rose Marie killed to show the other children what happens when you don't play the Joe Kennedy game. After that there was the classic Kennedy cover up. The only nice thing Joe Kennedy ever did in life was have a stroke. The world became a safer place once his mouth was shut.
Rose Marie was no more retarded than any other of the Kennedy's. Joe just wanted her dead and out of the way. Like a prayer doll she was then exploited as a symbol of Kennedy compassion. Hopefully, the Kennedy's had their money with Madoff.
Rosemary was considered a defective Kennedy and so they killed her. The Kennedy's are just a bunch of alcoholic ivy league phoney baloney Irish catholic hypocritic bums. The church considers lobotomy acceptable as long as they have been blessed by a priest prior to the murder.
what are you talking about? EVERYBODY knows about the lobotomy!
Abonanno24601 2 days ago
@Abonanno24601
When they ran the memorials for Eunice they were talking about the work she did for the special olympics and they were mentioning her sister as being disabled but were saying it in a way that did give any implication of what was DONE to her to make her that way.
Also, at the time this was made, my cranky video was the only thing on Rosemary.
sethmanrockandroll 2 days ago
@Abonanno24601
"didn't" I meant to say.
sethmanrockandroll 2 days ago
she had an iq of 90 could do math but her siblings had iq's of 160 so shunned by her father who later wrote having rosemary institutionalised helped the family to get on with achieving higher goals in their lives the fact that he had her siblings shun her exclude her etc,wouldn't this cause anxiety.depression and rages in anyone it did lead to mental illness.What a loving,caring and nurturing family-not jo never visited her
TheBikergoth 4 months ago
Dude your voice :(
SBeads11 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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SeanC2387 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
check out my story rap about rosemary on my page
SeanC2387 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
hey check out my story rap about rosemary on my page
SeanC2387 10 months ago
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hey check out my story rap about rosemary on my page
SeanC2387 10 months ago
It's all just very sad, but Rosemary wasn't alone back then. Others who had lobotomies and weren't Kennedy's got tossed aside as well, and I'm sure got left without visits, and the families too ashamed to talk about them. She wasn't alone, and it really is very sad.
desperategirl932 1 year ago
not trying to be rude because I'm assuming that's not your real voice, but this vid is sort of creepy with the irritating voice and darkness of it. If it is your real voice, I'm sorry. It's probably just the darkness of the video that's making it more creepy.
desperategirl932 1 year ago
@desperategirl932
Yes, the voice is real.
sethmanrockandroll 1 year ago
@sethmanrockandroll ugh... Sorry. It's just probably because of the video. I'm sure your voice is fine, and it's just me. :(
desperategirl932 1 year ago
@sethmanrockandroll You should be the moderator for the next Gorgon/Faces of Death video series.
tickyul 5 months ago
A lobotomy was cutting edge surgery back then to do something to help the mentally ill. Who knows what her parents were thinking when they made the decision, but they had money, so wanted to get the best help they could give her. Unfortunately, it wasn't discovered until later that this type of surgery was doing more harm than good. She was a guinea pig in mental illness like so many others have and continue to be. People who aren't manic depressive/schizophrenic/retarded/challenged, etc
desperategirl932 1 year ago
@desperategirl932 even today people who do not have mental problems can't wrap their heads around the disease/illness. They get irritated by it, pissed off by it, and just have no sympathy or understanding of it. Cancer for some reason we all can understand whether we've lived with it or not., but mental illness is just something we're suppose to shake off. In regards to Rosemary, it's very sad, but she wasn't alone back then, and I'm sure it was devastating for her family, but they also
desperategirl932 1 year ago
@desperategirl932 were a very public family and built around the government. They kept it private because back then and today people don't get mental illness. It's just like being gay or lesbian. people lie about it who are in the public eye because people don't get it and it would ruin their chances in government or the acting/music career or whatever career they have. until people are more open to learn about these things, the Rosemary's of society will continue to be put in the dark.
desperategirl932 1 year ago
@desperategirl932
Such may be true. But they gave her the surgery because she displayed typical every day behaviors like wanting boyfriends or simply speaking out of turn from what they thought to be acceptable. They cut out her brain to help their political future.Therefore, the surgery may be cutting edge (even quite literally) but they had it done for shady reasons and they knew it would alter her mind, and she probably had no say in their decision making.
sethmanrockandroll 1 year ago
@sethmanrockandroll Neither of us really know what her state of mind was back then. I've heard both sides. I've heard people close to her back then said her mind was like a child's, and she'd have crazy, uncontrollable outbursts. Others are similar to yours. I'm sure her family loved her and wanted the best for her, but I also agree with you that they were the Kennedys, they had a lot of money, they were politically sewn, and their image was important to them probably more so at times than
desperategirl932 1 year ago
@desperategirl932
You make a good point. I don't know "for sure". I can tell you she was smart enough to write and keep a journal, so I presume she didn't have "the mind of a child". As for the severity of her outbursts, I again don't know.
The media, however, talked a lot about the Special Olympics and the charitable contributions of the Kennedy family when Eunice died. They also mentioned Rosemary as mentally challenged, but said nothing of how she got that way! Cover up...Cover up..
sethmanrockandroll 1 year ago
@sethmanrockandroll agreed that they should feel some shame (those still alive, including Maria Shriver) that they just swept her under the rug, but also....those things are a really private matter and what were they to say? "My dad took Rosemary to get a lobotomy because he was told it would help her. When it didn't, he didn't own up to it and kept us all away from her and what happened." As far as the diaries, again we don't know. Some say that they weren't really her writings. After all,
desperategirl932 1 year ago
@desperategirl932 how did the public get the diaries when the Kennedy's covered up murders/lobotomy's...how could they not dispose of a diary in their own home? Makes no sense. Again, we can only speculate, but I think we can both agree that a Dr. Freeman was a quack, and he should have been put in prison for murder and destroying lives. Mental illness still today is not handled appropriately in most cases, but there are still so many unknowns. The mind is so complex.
desperategirl932 1 year ago
@sethmanrockandroll the care of their daughter. I know that after her lobotomy, she got the best treatment at that time in the school. She was a Kennedy, so she had gold treatment compared to the others in that institution who probably had similar stories of mental suffering. The Kennedys made a lot of stuff disappear. I have no doubt that Ted Kennedy killed that woman. It wasn't an accident. I don't blame Joe Jr. for the accident that left a woman paralyzed, and he did pay a lot more
desperategirl932 1 year ago
@sethmanrockandroll more than the person without the money, and I believe he's still taking care of her, and she most likely still wants more. That was really just an accident. BUT the plane crash with John Jr. was not an accident. He put his life and others in his hands when he was not licensed to flight under IFR conditions. That whole thing really made me mad that people didn't see that it was manslaughter. He had a responsibility as a pilot (a new VFR pilot), but he was a Kennedy and
desperategirl932 1 year ago
@desperategirl932 thought he was above the law. BUT if there is such a thing as payback to an evil, I believe this is what happened to the Kennedy's after Joe made the decision to give his daughter a lobotomy then erase her basically from his family. I think most Americans who still worship the family have no idea that she ever existed. I wish a news reporter would dig deep into the story, and report on it. I think it would be interesting, but not many people still alive to dig too far. :)
desperategirl932 1 year ago
I suspect Rosemary actualy had Asperger's Syndrome.
PinkPunkyKat 2 years ago
A disturbing & grotesque piece of buffoonery.
Jeffrey751 2 years ago
I hope that was not directed at me.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
A Grotesque Portrait of Our Parents
By Jean Kennedy Smith, Eunice Kennedy Shriver, Patricia Kennedy Lawford and Edward M. Kennedy
Published: Thursday, December 3, 1992
As children of Joseph P. Kennedy and Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy, we categorically reject the misjudgments, mischaracterizations, insinuations and outright falsehoods about our family relationships portrayed in the book "J.F.K., Reckless Youth" and repeated by many reviewers.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
The people who learn from my video will be smarter than any amount of Kennedy propaganda that is thrown in their direction.
Spam me all you like, I will not budge from fact.
FACT= Rosemary had her brain scraped out
FACT= Joe Kennedy is a gangster, who deserved a stroke and probably a lot more in the next life.
FACT= I may just as soon urinate on the graves of the Kennedy brothers for every foul word that is spoken against Nixon.
FACT=You cannot hide the truth.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
I will not rehash our discussion of Rosemary Kennedy's lobotomy- we disagree about the m reasons her father chose to have the it done. Nor will I comment further on your seeming hatred of the Kennedy's and adoration of Nixon- a man who had very serious and disturbing character flaws. I respect your right to have your own opinions. Your list of "facts" and the comments in the message you sent to me have convinced me that I should not communicate with you regarding these issues any longer.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
Those are strong words from someone who keeps flocking to my video to comment, and some one who posted a long PR response from the Kennedy family in several installments and personal messages.
I too respect your right to dissent, which is why I will never delete any of your posts.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
We recognize that honest historians, biographers and journalists have differed and will continue to differ about the achievements and activities of members of our family. Since the days when our grandparents Patrick J. Kennedy and John F. Fitzgerald first became involved in public life a century ago, our family has received extended scrutiny, much of it favorable, some of it harsh, most of it fair, but some of it keyed to sensationalism and exploitation for profit, regardless of truth.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
The book's repeated allegations of abusive family relations are outrageous falsehoods. It is grotesque to compare our father to Stalin. It is preposterous to call any of us "abused" children. Our parents gave us love, support and encouragement throughout their lives. Contrary to the malicious portrayal in this book, they were devoted and caring parents who lavished affection and attention on all of us.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
Dad's love for Mother was obvious to us and to their friends. Concern for others, especially those less fortunate than ourselves, was instilled in us from the beginning. It was a reflection of our parents' basic values, starting with their love for each other.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
The author's claim that Mother "never kissed or touched and rarely saw" her children is ridiculous. She read countless bedtime stories to us and read to us for hours at a time when we were sick. She took us for walks in our strollers and piled us into the family station wagon to go swimming at Walden Pond or for an outing on Cape Cod.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
Our earliest childhood memories are of exchanging goodnight kisses with Mother and Dad every night. We continued that habit throughout our lives whenever we were with them, even as adults, and our brother continued to do so as President.
It is especially revealing that nowhere does the author quote the best-known phrase that Jack often used in describing Mother, that she was the "glue that held our family together."
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
That is exactly what she was, as anyone who knows anything about our family will attest.
The dominant value that all of us continually felt in growing up was the importance of each of us in the family. Dad and Mother set high standards for us, and their love and support for each another and for us made those standards livable and reachable.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
In their lifetime, they suffered the losses of four children whom they loved very much, and who loved them deeply in return. Joe, Jack, Bobby and Kathleen meant the world to us, to each other and to our parents, and they would not recognize the cruel and uncaring family this book describes. In speaking out together now, the four of us have no doubt whatever that we also speak for them and for our sister Rosemary.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
Above all, Mother and Dad made our home a wonderfully happy and loving one for all their children. We honor them for the love, wisdom, care and strength they gave us throughout their lives.
Any so-called biography that tries to take our parents from us, that gets this basic fact about our family wrong, is not worth the paper it is printed on.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
I do believe the father received divine justice I really wish people gave a damn though
kurohead 2 years ago
Divine justice is in the hands of God- not you or I.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
Thank you for bringing her tragedy to peoples attention Her father actually lobotomized her because she was acting moody as her father put it she actually was having depression and back then lobotomizes were considered a cure for things such as depression mental illnesses and suicidal behavior. she was a 23 year old in her prime that loved to novels the theater and gossip. because of her father ignorance she was reduced to an infant like state not being able to speak, becoming mentally incapable
kurohead 2 years ago
You're a good person, thank you for applauding me!
I figured it was quite bizarre to find no video that covered this subject any where on youtube. I hope this video encourages any one with the right materials to come forward with their own videos about Rosemary, and to have the people responsible for what they had done as well as the others who left everyone in the dark about it.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
The fact remains that you have chosen to condemn and slander and defame the name of decent, good human beings like JFK , RFK , and their sister Eunice-despite the fact that this family, imperfect as we all are, have done so much to help other people in need, all their lives. I could continue about the good works of all the Kennedys, Shrivers, Lawfords and Jean Kennedy Smith, but I will not. You worship war mongers and hate decent humans. Good bye.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
That is not fact, I never said anything unsavory about Eunice. I said the Media did not accurately report the sister's predicament. I said that the media was lying, and I guess the family is keeping Rosemary in the dark because mine is the only video that discusses her apparently.
It was the Kennedys who turned their noses at Nixon for coming from a poor working class family, it was Jack who hurt his feelings just like anyone else...... and you can glue your lips to their cold dead asses.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
Comment removed
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
Ah, but Nixon's "cold dead ass" is so much more lonely than Kennedy's! I think he deserved some one to smooch it! SMOOCH IT!
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
Now that I'm thinking, maybe you were right. I shouldn't be so hard on John and his brother.
They were a little spoiled by the press, but I see nothing that says they should die. I enforce my point that there were reasons to kill them, just as there are many reasons to kill any world ruler, but the two brothers are no more sinful than anyone else on this planet. Myself included. I'll still enforce what I said about the father, but I regret some harsh words about the sons. Sorry, and God Bless.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
That does not justify what was done to her no matter how hard you try and debate the issue. So I'm sorry.
kurohead 2 years ago
There is no attempt to justify anything. Lobotomies were routinely advised by doctors for decades. Joseph Kennedy followed their advice with admittedly tragic results. Rosemary was suffering from far more than depression- watching and listening to films of her prove this- but does not mean I approve of what was done to her- I don't. This guy is obsessed with condemning the Kennedy's - even approving of the murders of JFK and RFK- yet worshiping war mongering mass murderers like Nixon.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
I truly do hope you do get the mental help that you need. Unlike during Rosemary Kennedy's early lifetime, there are many effective treatments available. The fact that you dismiss the murders of John F. and Robert F. Kennedy as acceptable indicate show evidence of a severe disturbance in judgement and psychopathic babble. May God bless you and send you the help you deserve as a human being in a severe state of psychological pain.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
Listen, buddy. Its a free country (the one I live in). And I don't need to resort to assigning mental illnesses to people I don't know when they don't agree with me. Moreover, I don't believe in mental illnesses because I hold people accountable by their actions, not by their appearances or their speech impediments.
Kennedy's father had his daughter's brain scraped out. John made plans to have people bumped off, and Robby Kennedy tore into Jimmy Hoffa with nothing more than a personal grudge.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
There was never a reference to anyone's speech patterns or appearance. Sadly, presidents make decision that lead to the deaths of innocents- just as your hero, Nixon, did when he ordered the bombing and murders of thousands in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. The fact remains that you dismiss the murders of the Kennedy brothers as acceptable. This is an indication of a psychological problem. Although I believe that Nixon was deeply disturbed, I would never approve any acts of violence against him.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
Eh, hem? You're saying that I appear to be crazy and should seek help.
Nixon is smarter than the Kennedy's and that is why he outlived them. Ultimately he was laced with the burdens of THEIR PROBLEMS which did not become resolved until Nixon (and then Ford) took care of real business.
Joe Kennedy bought the 1960 election for his kid, and deciding world leaders through underhanded means should naturally indicate the potential for a death or many deaths to knock on your family's door.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
Yes i do.
The perceived level of one's intelligence is not an indicator of life span. JFK signed NSAM 163 to begin withdrawal from Vietnam. After his murder, which you approve of, Johnson escalated the war- as did Nixon- until realized that the unpopularity of Vietnam might cost him reelection in '72- he would have lost in '68 to Robert Kennedy by the way- but RFK was also, in an other other act you approve of, murdered. Nixon caused the end of own career by corruption and crime.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
I might be forgetting some of my own quotes, but I thought I said that I UNDERSTOOD why he was killed, not that I approved or disapproved. The turmoil of losing a president will often shake the power structure and make us feel like we're living in a third world country.
I believe that the Kennedy's are dirtier than they appear to be, and I have affection for more than a few of their political enemies such as Nixon, Hoffa, and even Hoover (to some extent).
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
You said " There are more than a few good reasons to knock off certain Kennedy people" this statement clearly indicates your approval, justification and advocacy of the murders and even other murders.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
Joe Sr deserves death for having his daughter's brain scraped out. John leaked military information during his debates with Nixon, he also had a big mouth and tiny fists (which means that he talked tough against the Commi's while secretly trying to kill Castro, but he wimped out of any full scale attack and he gave the Russians what they wanted when they were trying to intimidate us with their nukes.). He and Bobby allegedly shared sex with Marylin Monroe, which is a biblical act of incest.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
Joseph Kennedy died of natural causes as the result of a stroke- not as a punishment for a crime you allege -JFK actually did attempt to invade Cuba, but failed. He was murdered because he decided to stop a plan to kill Castro and pursue peaceful negotiations. Your facts on the Cuban Missile Crisis are wrong: the Russians left Cuba after JFK threatened to invade if they did not leave. The USSR backed down & withdrew. JFK and RFK did not have a threesome with Monroe , thus there was no incest.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
Not a "threesome", two brothers were allegedly with the same girl on opposite one on one occasions. That is a biblical act of incest.
I didn't say for a fact that Joe was "punished", I said he deserved everything he got.
The russians may have left cuba, but we withdrew fire power from Germany in return. The Kennedy's were wimps because they were overrating the Russians just like every president before them. MacArthur would've burned a hole right through China if Truman had carried more balls.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
Since I am a spiritual and moral person and do not believe in organized religion as such, references to the Bible mean nothing to me. If the Kennedy brothers did indeed have relationships with Monroe , I would agree that if they were guilty of infidelity they committed acts that probably caused their spouses and families a great amount of pain. -but incest- no- I will never accept this definition of what they they in your words "allegedly" engaged in.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
And I'm also no one one to judge, I certainly don't know of them doing this for sure, but these are the sort of things floating around.
My video is the truth, Rosemary had her brains scraped out. She was not "mentally ill". I felt the media was irresponsible for not reporting what she really went through. It was never an attack against Eunice, and the other stuff was mentioned in passing.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
In your opinion Joseph Kennedy - "bought the 1960 election for his kid, and deciding world leaders through underhanded means should naturally indicate the potential for a death or many deaths to knock on your family's door.'' This indicates that it is your belief that Joseph, John and Robert Kennedy all deserved to die. I would refer back to the teachings of Jesus Christ- Since you refer to the bible- and read about his thoughts on "casting stones" and "judging others."
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
I'd like you to read other scripture from exactly how power changed hands in former times, and I'd like you to learn the particulars of war.
Joe Sr. deserved to die, and his underhanded ways placed the two sons in harms way when they became viable military targets and controversial public officials. John is foolish for not taking the right security precautions. Nixon would've researched every detail of his own personal safety and thats why he didn't simply get shot when he was overthrown.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
I don't refer to people who use peaceful means to end conflict as wimps. Truman dropped an atomic bomb on Japan, is this wimpy to you, not enough dead?
I'm confused- you're outraged about the alleged sexual lives of JFK and RFK and a lobotomy that was considered an accepted treatment at the time- and you may be right in both cases- BUT - you find no problem with people who advocated and pursued violence and war on a large scale causing millions of deaths- like Nixon and McArthur.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
I was speaking theoretically of their ALLEGED affair with Monroe. Not officially. MacArthur would've saved time, lives, and money if he had been allowed to use the full strength of our military to crush our Red Opponents. I am bothered at the fact that we were swatting mosquitoes around the elephant, which was Russia, and that we piss ourselves scared for every two-bit dictator with a nuke. We hit the weaklings like a big kid who never picks on his own size, and we screw that up too.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
I'm lenient on Nixon (bombing Cambodia, which you seem to be getting at) because we didn't even have an understanding of who we were friends with at the time of that bombing. There's an old saying that the South Vietnamese "never stepped on any land mines, as if they already knew they were there".
Nixon and Kennedy suffer from the fact that they were out of place. If their elections had been switched around, if Joe Sr had kept his mafia out of our country's decision making, all would be right.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
Japan was training its soldiers to fight to the death, and the other soldiers like Hiroo Onada were trained to stay alive and fight "until further instruction". Onada was fighting WWII all the way into the 70s or 80s if I recall. Truman's atomic bomb was the carrot to the seal the deal, its the reason they accepted defeat, and it may have saved their lives in the long run.
I know fights where I've retracted my fists, I'll stand there and take hits, stand there thinking, doing nothing.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
WTF!!?? this fucking scary..
wisesatyr72 2 years ago
Eunice Shriver wrote about her sister in an article in Life Magazine soon after JFK was elected. She spent her life devoted to helping the intellectually challenged. Your comments about a family which has dedicated its life to helping others are untrue. DOCTORS TOLD ROSEMARY'S FATHER THE OPERATION WOULD HELP HER. THIS IS WHY IT WAS PERFORMED. HE TRUSTED THEM. THE KENNEDY FAMILY HAS NEVER HIDDEN THE FACT THAT THEIR SISTER WAS ILL. learn the facts before you make hurtful and false statements.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
I was speaking of the Media, first of all, and the family second.
The media never said anything about the brain scraping during the entire time they covered the death of Eunice and how she did so much for her "mentally disabled" sister. If Nixon had something like this happen to his sister, the press would tear him alive, but they give they give the Kennedys a free ticket for mayhem.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago
Mrs. Shriver never did anything to her sister but help her and thousands of other intellectually challenged people. Unfortunately, Rosemary was born with some disabilities. The surgery was performed on her, and thousands of others during those years, to help her condition- this procedure was medically accepted at the time and thought to be effective. This turned out to be untrue. Any statement that she was subjected to this to "shut her up" is a lie. She was ill before the procedure.
worldgonemad321 2 years ago
The way mentally ill people were treated in the past is in itself, a holocaust. Hitler is often labeled the most evil man to walk this earth, yet doctors who performed such heinous experiments and "treatments" on people with mental illness, were touted as heroes and geniuses.
crumbfish 2 years ago
The instrument used on Rosemary is called a leucotome. Freeman bored two holes in her head and inserted this device blindly into her brain. The only anesthesia used was the electroshock which rendered her temporary unconscious. During the "operation" she was allowed to regain consciousness and the "doctor" assessed her mental condition while stabbing into her brain. It is said when she became incoherent, "Dr" Freeman knew to stop. The "operation" rendered her horrifically brain damaged. Sad
crumbfish 2 years ago
Joe Kennedy had Rose Marie killed to show the other children what happens when you don't play the Joe Kennedy game. After that there was the classic Kennedy cover up. The only nice thing Joe Kennedy ever did in life was have a stroke. The world became a safer place once his mouth was shut.
txmcxlx 2 years ago
Rose Marie was no more retarded than any other of the Kennedy's. Joe just wanted her dead and out of the way. Like a prayer doll she was then exploited as a symbol of Kennedy compassion. Hopefully, the Kennedy's had their money with Madoff.
txmcxlx 2 years ago
Rosemary was considered a defective Kennedy and so they killed her. The Kennedy's are just a bunch of alcoholic ivy league phoney baloney Irish catholic hypocritic bums. The church considers lobotomy acceptable as long as they have been blessed by a priest prior to the murder.
txmcxlx 2 years ago
True Rosemary was just "open minded" until her lobotomy, she became much worse afterwards
manteno 2 years ago
It was actually a long Golden Spike in the fashion of an ice pick. I had almost forgotten what the doctor had used, but that was it.
He rammed it up a nostril and randomly poked and scraped at whatever brain tissue within reach.
sethmanrockandroll 2 years ago