I know from my experience too that God has the power to forgive sins and even forgave my sins without being asked. I know God can change hearts mine and others. I've had two occurrences that God actually changed my heart. One that when God changed another's. God also told me when He was going to take away my beloved grandmother well ahead before she even got sick & other things.
Of course this is not a proof. But it is my personal proof of God. I cannot prove God but I can at least testify.
@MichaelWithstand What a brutal "miracle". Hey, I'm Gawd. You're granny will get sick and you she might have another 5 years left to live even though she'll be sick, but lemme just kill her name. Now WORSHIP MEEEE!!!!!!!!!! BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGRAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!
@TheCrazedGuitarist What do you mean brutal. People don't live forever. She was 85 year old. By letting me know beforehand it prepared me and console me to know that it was her time. My time as yours too will come. It was a demonstration that God let His people know. No worry God may not be for everyone. Just live your life to the best of you can. Be happy.
I find your personal experiences maximally unconvincing. Every day babies are born with no skin, with terrible and ultimately fatal deformities; good people get struck down and killed instantly; tsunamis wipe out tens or hundreds of thousands of people and your testament consists of God being generous enough to tell you he was about to kill your Gran. Your credulity threshold must be dragging on the floor if you are impressed by this.
God does provide evidence not to all but He does provide personal evidence to select individuals. So there's fallacy in this argument. I'm informed about God. I saw Christ when I was a 7th grader. His face shone the brightest light ever. I've had two of my prayers answered immediately. There was no coincidence in that. And some other things. God allowed me to know what death is and how it feels like. He also allowed me rarely to feel other people emotions and even once to know thought & others
You are not the first person to have such an experience of Christ - many many others have had such an experience. The funny thing is that everyone who has such an experience is already aware of christianity. doesn't it seem strange to you that he never appears to the remote tribespeople who have never heard of Christianity or seen christian art? Maybe He just wants all tribespeople to burn in hell?
@noelplum99 Certainly I am not the only one. There are many many people with personal experience of Christ.
I read one once Muslim women who was healed by Christ and allowed to see Christ when she was still a Muslim. She did pray to Jesus Christ for 3 years though. Perhaps one of the easiest way to God is through going through the stupidity of faith. That faith that's tried with doubts and sufferings. Somehow God appreciates what little thing called faith. I do know however that God loves ever1
@noelplum99 Fantastic point. Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, etc are all doomed to burn in Hell because they happen to be born into the wrong areas of the world and believe in the wrong gods. I honestly fail to see how this is something believers of the God of the Bible brush off or evade when confronted with this problem. This problem is detrimental to their whole premise that God is loving, forgiving, and allows for freewill. Well he is loving if you believe in him, the rest can be destroyd
@MichaelWithstand Personal accounts of revelation are absolutely worthless as evidence. For example, in my dream last night Thor visited me and told me that Norse mythology is not mythology but is very real, he also said that if I worship him I would go to Valhalla, those who don't worship him are going to face his wrath when he comes to Earth (he failed to give an exact date so we are left to speculate). From this personal encounter I can't tell you with all honesty that Thor is real.
I guess in a way it is more him leaning towards us to 'make' us love him to be with him but in the end you really do have free will you have a choice. Everlasting happiness,gold, riches, and anything you could imagine or hell. Its like working for a living to be with what you need and want. Bums don't just get happiness and riches and love they suffer because they don't work...
great point at the end. It seems each time I make this point to theist friends, they retort with things like "It's because God, graceful as he is, actually wants you to make the right choice", without acknowledging the grotesque inconsistency with earlier remarks along the lines of "evidence hinders free will", as if the heaven-hell duality doesn't fuck up free will as it is...
Science has many things as said in the bible although a lot of it isn't exactly as they say it is in science. Like them saying earth is millions of years old yet in the bible it says it is thousands hmmm doesn't make sense they say. We don't know what they thought as time back then when the bible was written maybe their time was different. Earth was created in 7 days in God's time maybe not ours. Maybe earth has been here longer as they say in science but in God's time it was here shorter.
@lickedteeth The Bible doesn't actually put a number to the age of the Earth. The age was calculated by a bishop based on assumptions about the ages of characters appearing in the Old Testament.
A day is the time it takes for the planet Earth to do one rotation around its axis. There is no other way to make sense of that concept. Why would an all-mighty and all-knowing God not be able to translate his concept of time to something that makes sense to us? Or at least convey the vastness of it...
I believe your feel will is whether or not to believe in him and worship him. You can do all you want in life and we all know that life is short. So have your favors and whatever you want to do in life, but the minute you die you have nothing to look forward to but everlasting pain in hell. Or you can suck it up and be good as he says believe in him be strong and wait to have everlasting happiness. He loves you no matter what but will not walk you down the isle like a little baby.
@lickedteeth That's a novel interpretation of the word "love"... if you don't love me back I'll throw you in Hell where you will be tortured for eternity.
@lickedteeth He loves you enough to have you burn in hell? God is our father. If God were my actual father, I would have been sent to child services a long time ago. Religion shouldn't be about "sucking it up." Rewatch the video, clear your mind, and enjoy living life to the fullest.
The united States of America was built on religion. Religion is awesome and all you atheist will be on your death bed and beg for forgiveness to god for not believing in him right before you die. You will see, I can guarantee it 100%
@TheChristmasFan You are an ignorant benign cyst in the way of something great, you great fool. That you have insulted god and atheists in the very same comment is unparalleled and unrivalled in stupidity in the very thing you foolishly believe in.
Great video, thanks so much for sharing. But I must say the best part was definitely scrolling down and seeing tiggster13 and sweethala1411 bitching. Haha
@tiggster13 "The question I'm asking, though, is why is it all I ever hear about are the "bad" Muslims?" Bad news sell. If people saw a muslim imam talking about his religion would they be interested? No
"Why has your god allowed your faith to be tainted by the acts of terrorists?"He hasn't. The people who have read the Quran know that true muslims aren't terrorists. People who actually know true muslims following the orders of Allah know that muslims aren't terrorists.
@sweethala1411 And as you said Christians have done many bad things through out the history yet I don't think that all Christisns are bad people . If you want to know a religion you shouldn't just judge it by it's followers but by it's book. Also if all I know about Americans is from the news I would say that they are bad people .Just like all you know about Muslims is what you see on tv.
@tiggster13 "so why shouldn't I expect that you treat cartoonists and their publishers with the same respect that I do" Well, if they would've treated me and my religion with respect I would've respected them . But why should I respect someone who's obviously not respecting me?
"I think that's a reasonable request." Not really. I wouldn't expect from you to treat someone who does insulting cartoons about your mum with respect.
@tiggster13 "Have Muslims ever protested insulting cartoons about the Pope? Or buddha? Or jesus? Has anyone?" I actually wasn't awear there were some cartoons about them. And it is rude to make cartoons about anyone let alone prophets. I know you don't believe in them but others do. People make cartoons to say something. And what was said about prophet muhammed peace be upon him is disrespectful . I've never said "You can insult everyone else, but not him" not to you nor to anyone else .
@tiggster13"You said that you were a slave and seemed proud to be so. I didn't put that label on you, you put it on yourself" I did and I am proud of it. It's not what yousaid but how you said it. I can see that you are judging me I just don't know if it was because I'm muslim or only for believing in God.And according to you, not fighting temptation and doing what you want when you want it , you are also a slave. I'm a slave of God and you're a slave of your own desires.
@tiggster13 "replace the words "good and "bad" with words like "black" and "white", "male" and "female", "rich" and "poor", "Muslim" and "Jew"" You're talking about gender,race and religion . I'm only talking about actions .
@tiggster13 "The prejudism is that there are good and bad people. There aren't. There's just people - flawed people, people who sometimes do bad things. "
So someone like osamah bin laden is equal to someone like you??
I'm sure you think of yourself as a good person. I'm also sure that osamah thinks of himself as a good person. But to from others point of view are you really equal?
@tiggster13 "Hey, hold on here! You said that you were a slave and seemed proud to be so. I didn't put that label on you, you put it on yourself" I AM proud of it. And it's not what you said it's how you said it. "I doubt it. I'm not a slave like you are" .I can see that you are judging me,but I don't know if it was because I'm muslim or just for believing in God. And according to you , you're a slave ,too.
I'm a slave of God and you're a slave of your desires.
@tiggster13 "take your sentence above and replace the words "good and "bad" with words like "black" and "white", "male" and "female", "rich" and "poor", "Muslim" and "Jew"." You are talking about sex, race and religion. I'm talking about actions . There's a BIG difference.
@tiggster13 "So tell me, do you think that christians and jews and hindus don't actually have faith? That they don't actually believe in the things they worship?
Are you really that close minded and ignorant?" I've never said they didn't. And I'm neither close minded nor ignorant . BUT my mom has always told me that people look at others as themselves so maybe you are close minded and ignorant.
@tiggster13 "anyone who can strap a bomb to his chest and blow himself up for god has to have a lot of faith"Not Necessarily . Those people could only be seeking revenge. He could be a man coming from the grossery store finding his family all killed and his house destroied by Amarican solders. He could be a man who had never harmed anyone in his life. "Americans were only looking for terrorists and they made a mistake " wont be an enough of excuse for him.
@sweethala1411 I'm not saying that what they do is ok but how can I blame them for feeling this way? Wouldn't I feel the same ? Wouldn't you?
Especially since it's all allowed for the American army. They're looking for terrorists so a few hundreds of thousands of innocent people dead is ok . After all, those innocent people are not Americans.
@tiggster13 "Why would anyone believe in a god whose followers are thugs and bigots?" That can not be absolutly true. I know I didn't threat anyone and I'm sure millions of muslims haven't also. Why are you talking only about "thugs and bigots" .
There are many MANY better people to repersent Islam but you only talk about the bad ones like there are no other muslims.
@tiggster13 "You're saying that you deserve special respect that no one else has a right to expect."In what way am I saying that?
I didn't insult anyone. I'm not making an insulting cartoon about you or anyone so why wouldn't I demand to be treated the same way I'm treating everyone else? I think it's a reasonable request.
@tiggster13 Why are you putting terrorists in the same catagory with who I'm calling man of faith? I believe a man of faith is a man who follows Gods words out in the open and in secret. Not someone doing the exact opposite of what God said.
"How about because we are all equal in his eyes"
Again, why would God equalize good people with bad people?
"I doubt it. I'm not a slave like you are"
Wow. Now talk about prejudism .
I know you don't care but you're getting smaller and smaller in my eyes.
@tiggster13 "Why do you think that someone who can "do whatever they want" would automatically become a murderer? This is the prejudism I was talking about, equating someone who is not of your faith with someone who must be inherently evil" What??I don't think that someone who can do what ever they want would automatically be murderer. That's what you suggest . That God make the good and the bad equal. So I guess that's the prejudism you were talking about.
@tiggster13 " Are you saying that non-Muslims - people who deny Allah and his prophet - PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOU, will be allowed to go to heaven?"
They could.
I'm not God so I can't say who will or will not go to heaven.
And there are muslim people who are different from me. Different doesn't mean hell. You talk like you're sure I'm going to heaven which is impossible.
@tiggster13 " Are you saying that non-Muslims - people who deny Allah and his prophet - PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOU, will be allowed to go to heaven?"
They could.
I'm not God so I can't say who will or will not go to heaven.
And there are muslim people who are different from me. Different doesn't mean hell. You talk like you're sure I'm going to heaven which is impossible.
@tiggster13 " Are you saying that non-Muslims - people who deny Allah and his prophet - PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOU, will be allowed to go to heaven?"
They could.
I'm not God so I can't say who will or will not go to heaven.
And there are muslim people who are different from me. Different doesn't mean hell. You talk like you're sure I'm going to heaven which is impossible.
@tiggster13 "So you'll become outraged only if you think you can manipulate people?" It's one thing when a bad people do bad things but it's a whole other thing when people who say the are good and say they are NOT racists do a bad thing and think it's ok.
If muslim people didn't say anything about it then they would be sure that it's ok to do so. However, terrorists wouldn't listen no matter what we say or do.
I can't believe you're defending what those people did.
@tiggster13 No, that wouldn't be justice. Why would a man of faith be equal to a murderer ? Why would God make a man worshipping him equal with a man doesn't even bother trying?"There is nothing immoral about being free and living life to its fullest." Who said that religious people aren't living their lives??
Maybe I'm enjoying my life more than you enjoy yours :)
@tiggster13 "He gives us the freedom to do what we want and laws to punish us if we do what we want" He did warned us and he did tell us what to do and what not to do. Everyone are capable of killing someone. But they'll be punished by law if they did so. I really don't understand why is it easy for us to follow human laws and so hard to follow Gods laws.
@tiggster13 "He gives us the freedom to do what we want and laws to punish us if we do what we want." He punishes us only when we don't do what he told us to do.
You are capable of killing a man. But you'll be punished for doing so by the law. God didn't just put laws to punish us. He warned us first . Why is it so easy for us to follow human laws ,but so hard to follow Gods laws?
@tiggster13 No one suffers in this life and the next life. If you did good things you will be rewarded for it even if you were a siner. Many dis-believers do alot of good things and help other people so God will reward them . Most likely in this life.
@tiggster13 They wont suffer just because they're different from me . If we were to suffer, it would be because we didn't listen to Gods orders. I'm muslim ,but just because I am doesn't mean I could never go to hell. Maybe I've done more bad things than good in this life.
@tiggster13 "Consider, who will ultimately be rewarded."
It's like scales really. How many sins and how many good deeds.
It's not up to me to say who goes to heaven and who doesn't. that's one of the first things my parents have taught me about Islam. Never say "that person is going to hell" . Maybe to the eyes of God he is better than me.
@tiggster13 "They'll riot in the streets like barbarians over a cartoon but how many times have they marched to demand abolishment of al Qaida?" Yeah I'm sure al qaida will just give up and terrorists will turn themselves in if we just did that.
And it wasn't just a cartoon, it was ment to insult a prophet and a nation. And thank you very much for "like barbarians" . It's shocking how your description fits me.
@tiggster13 Well, excuse us for not wanting to handle terrorism the way your country is handling it. You sent your big army to Afghanistan and killed a whole lot of innocent people and yet you haven't find bin laden. Wow ,big acheivement.. really. I wonder why muslims didn't think of it first. My country fights the terrorists they find and actually know where they are. We don't attack a whole country and kill random people and hope that who we killed were terrorists.
@tiggster13 "This is not a justice" Then what would be justice? Letting everyone do what ever they want with out setting limits and making the good people and the bad equal by letting them all go to heaven?Equalizing someone who spends his life fighting temptation with someone giving up to temptations without even thinking twice about it?
@tiggster13 "Are you a good person or are you just the slave of a good master?"
Maybe I'm both. I am a good person because I am a slave of the good master. I don't know who would I be if I were an athiest for example. I am who I am because of my religion. And I do think of my self as a good person . Not the best of course but still.
@tiggster13 Oh please what Islamic people?? I don't think of Osama bin Laden and his people to be the face of Islam. The just go around and kill innocent people saying that God asked them to do so. In Islam even the govenment can't blow up a place where terrorists are if there were innocent people in it. Even if those innocent people are the terrorists's families
@tiggster13 I don't care what the religion of the person I'm helping. If I saw someone who needs help I would do what ever I can to help them. God never said help other people inless they were from another religion.
@tiggster13 We are not suffering for being not perfect , we suffer for doing sins and saying it is ok to do so. We make mistakes and not ask Gods forgiveness. God knows we are not perfect. All he asks for is for us to repent. I don't have to be perfect to repent .
@tiggster13 No, they don't grt excused. Many religions out there are absolutely flawed and the followers of these religions see that yet they don't look for the right religion . God is not holding us to blame for what Adam and Eve did. We won't be punished for them. And so what if Adam and Eve made a mistake .After all they did repent and they were forgiven. That's all we have to do ,repent. Even if we made a million mistake .
@tiggster13 "Which proves it isn't morality he cares about but obedience." In my religion they are the same
If I talked badly about you in your abcence and asked Gods forgivness he would forgive me but inless you forgive me for what I said at the day of judgement some of my good deeds go to you or some of your sins comes to me.>>I'm not sure if you'll understand that.
@tiggster13 Please we shouldn't even call it a test. God never asked us to do something extravagant. Most of what he told us to do is for our own good. Actually I don't believe we are worthless at all. Maybe we suffer because of our actions or maybe we suffer to get something better.
@tiggster13 hahahaha how did you assume that I'm convinced that I'm saved?
trust me I'm not. I probably fear hell more than you do. And why wouldn't be aware of the test? That's exactly why God sent his prophets. So we wouldn't have this excuse. plus God doesn't judge us only by what we do but by our intentions doing it. Say some one pushed you and you hit a man behind you and the man fell and broke his arm would you be punished for that? no because it was an accident
@tiggster13 He gave us life as a gift. He didn't have to creat us ,but he did.
How did I make it sound like God is a sadistic monster? . So what is he is testing us? don't we sometimes test the people we love? does that make our love for them less? . According to what I say, God only punishes those who desereve to be punished, but he also rewards those who deserve to be rewarded. We make mistakes ,but the question is if we were to repent or not.
@tiggster13 No, I'n not saying our will is superior to God's. As I said , if God only lets us to do what he wants and not let us do what we want to do then this life wouln't be a test. If war, suicide, slavery, child abuse don't exist then why would I seek heaven so much. This world would BE heaven . Those who suffer will be rewarded and those who make people suffer will be punished . It's just a when matter.
@tiggster13 By giving us free will his is testing us. without free will we would be just robots. It is obvious that with out free will we all would be perfect and wouldn't have any mistakes. And how would you know how God feels about us? . If God is willing to destroy us for not being perfect then the only people who will go to heaven are prophets. The rest of us are doomed according to your theory
@tiggster13 But the values I follow are the same ones God placed on me.Respecting and helping others,honoring the guest and the neighbor, being kind to other people and every thing else. I don't it is God's plane to feed me to snakes and if we were an experement I think he would say everything is allowed and see how far we would go.
@tiggster13 why? he was testing them , just like we are now being tested
millions and millions are not suffering for Adam and Eve's mistake...we only suffer of our own action. And even we human don't let people whom we don't trust come in our houses why should he let us stay in heaven if we weren't trust worthy?
like children hahaha he would have to take ALOT so we would be good
and thinking about it ,there are lots of temptations he would have to take almost every thing
@tiggster13 what do you mean have no values? my religion sets a very high values to follow.I don't think I'm choosing the wrong path just may be a few wrong detours but God is forgiving once I return :) .And if there was no love there wouldn't be forgiveness. If I were as you say statistic,expendable,worthless then why it is forbidden to kill my self?or to injure my self?
why doesn't God say they're just statistic...allow them to kill themselves , let's see how many of them will do that ??
@sweethala1411 If "The law" also was in the position of having created me in a deterministic universe, knowing in advance that I would break "The law", then I have never made a choice that is independent of "The law"'s act of creating me, and therefore "The law" has no moral basis for judging me. Just as I can't judge a rock I have thrown on a moral basis if it happens to break something.
So it's better to say divine command can't claim moral justice, only might makes right.
of course you have a choice ...and if The law had known in advance that you would break it does that mean that it can punish you for something you haven't done yet??
we do have a choice otherwise we would be just robots really,wouldn't we?
we're not pushed to do anything ,every thing we do we do by choice
and I don't think we have the right to blame anyone for our action just simply because they knew that we would do them
i don't believe it's to exercise your free will,but to exercise your minds.
he did give us evidences of his existance like the way our body works,the way the earth moves around it self and around the sun and so all the other planets.
jury also would be given many evidences ,maybe not very clear ,but still evidences.
like if there were a video tape ,clear enough to see the criminal killing a man then why would you need a jury ? what would the jury's job be ??
"he did give us evidences of his existance like ........ the way the earth moves around it self and around the sun and so all the other planets."
I just wondered: in a universe NOT created by Allah, what would you expect to be different (how would you expect the planets to move, instead)? It seems to me that unless you can answer this very important question then it is meaningless to say the present arrangement is evidence for deistic involvement.
but if it wasn't created by Allah then who created it??
I guess Allah is just the name of the creator, I mean if I called you any other name than noelplum it wouldn't change who you really are, what you do or have done
so the universe was created therefore the planets move perfectly with out colliding in to earth
and if it were not created I don't believe we would be having this conversation
Nothing collides with the earth because the planets move in regular, predictable orbits caused by the simple law of gravitation.
Now why does that suggest a god? It is like saying without a god planetary orbits would be unpredictable and planets would move in irregular ways... BUT if they did then theists would simply say ' who do you think it is that makes the planets move in complicated unpredictable ways?' - in other words the same argument would be made
"you would never believe me if I told you that things simply creat themselves,would you?? "
The Philosopher Daniel Dennett has said that the only thing we know about the origin of the universe is that it will not be intuitive.
I agree with you, the idea of a naturalistic origin of the universe sounds counterintuitive but so does the idea of a pre-existant intelligent entity that exists outside of time but acts in temporal ways.
Really I have no idea. there are so many possibilities (if you have time watch my video 'the greatest argument for god in the world ... ever') and ALL of them amount to total guesswork.
The inflationary big bang model can account for, in one incarnation, everything other than around 10kg of initial mass/energy but even if it accounted for all the mass it would still need to account for the fundamental laws
My problem is this sweethala: I cannot envisage ANY explanation I would...
I mean are you REALLY satisfied with your chosen explanation. Don't you find it unsatisfying to simply say Allah has just always existed and that is all there is to it? You reckon Allah would be satisfied with that or would He want to know why He exists.
You see even if Allah DOES exist, why a god rather than no god? Why create this universe rather than another?
Imo, this is one question where neither science nor religion comes close to providing a satisfactory explanation and both sides are guilty of overselling the case they are capable of making.
@sweethala1411 The problem with the "Someone had to create it" line of reasoning is that it is not an explanation. Unless you do special pleading and state that "God doesn't need an explanation", such parodies of explanations just beg the question "I can't believe a God so organized would come out of no where - someone had to create it".
However, if you do special pleading, the question becomes "Why didn't you do it before introducing the creator?" He really is redundant if you allow that.
@sweethala1411 Also, the Islamic "Things don't create themselves" argument is profoundly moronic for several reasons. First, it may actually be the case that non-causal, natural, particle creation events happen all the time due to uncertainty. (See virtual particles etc)
Second, from a macro perspective, absolutely nothing you observe seems to be "created". It's just rearrangement of preexisting matter. So it's not obvious that anything really is "created" in the sense of the muslim argument.
@sweethala1411 "so the universe was created therefore the planets move perfectly with out colliding in to earth"
Wrong. The earth, and all the other planets are known to be the cause of countless collisions of matter. They are a causal result of gravity attracting mass. Ever heard of the extinction of the dinosaurs? In fact... do you even know the history of the rock in the Kaa'ba? Or how about the 1908 meteor impact in Siberia? The devastating impact lit up the sky as far as London.
@sweethala1411 The reason things seldom collides with the earth is painfully obvious: The earth has been here for a long time, and most objects that were likely to collide with it already have, and are now part of the earth. The same is true for the other planets. In short, the gravity system has converged on a stable state. By the way, the earth is also "perfectly situated" to be swallowed up by the sun when it dies.
It's all *within* us not without. That's why following "religion" and false prophets have led humanity and the world NO WHERE except down a very bad path.
Great video. I always find it completely baffling when a Christian presents this argument. After all, the Bible is full of counterexamples: Jesus's disciples, Paul, Elijah, Moses, doubting Thomas, etc. Were all of these people were stripped of their free will?
I think its funny when people say an event from the bible, such as Adam and Eve (that whole shibang) and I then say, "how do you know that it happened and that its not made up"? then they say "because its in the bible, duh", I then proceed to say, "well how do you know the bible is factual, and not made up and written by some guy who wants to con others into their crazy belief system"? and then they say "well its the bible, it can't be wrong". ...people like that make me giggle.
Because those of true belief (not just religiously raised into) will have had personal experiences that created an impact they will never be able to deny.
And their thesis Holy book will evoke the same kind of impact and bring them to a higher level of personal understanding.
I don't think anyone outside of their religion will expect an atheist who persistently denies God to understand their message.
He's given us evidence through His prophcies. Since it was His eyewitness account of creation, and He does agree with science, at least where science is rational, it's all we can go by as far as creation goes, but prophcies are abit more complicated, but there for a reason. There, so we can prove His existance. It was hard at first, but once I discovered His real name, pieces fell together and ever since, I make new discoverys, dailey.
As far as your burn in hell comment. I don't buy it..cont.
The reason is bc I found out if you don't invite Him into your life, He doesn't know you. You don't exit either. So when you do not exist, you return from where you came, dust or dirt.
But to get back to prophecy. Take Abraham and his son Issac. Abraham and his son were a dress rehersal for our Heavenly Father, and His son.
What did Abes son carry on his back, wood.
What did the Messi/Yah carry on His back.
How'd both arrive, by donkey.
Who was gonna lose his son, Abe the father...cont.
That was the most long-winded way of going about saying "I believe even though common sense tells me not to because I have a book that tells me to"
You didn't provide any logical or rational reason to believe in god.
"I found out if you don't invite Him into your life, He doesn't know you." That's because god is a self-imposed mental illness, a figment of your mind. Google delusional psychosis and stockholm syndrome.
I advise you put your bible down and start living life. Time to grow up.
@materialclassified Which brings us to the most disgusting of the Christian beliefs. The belief that our moral responsibility is nonexistent, because our wrong doings ("sins") have already been forgiven because of a human sacrifice. That's seriously messed up.
Not to mention it further shows the stupidity of this "god", that he had to sacrifice his son in order to fix a problem in a system that he created in the first place. That doesn't demonstrate omniscience.
You answered your own question, Noel. If you saw God in all His Glory--if you experienced His full Presence of Holiness--you would either be enfolded into His love or you would burn for your sin, depending on whether you have acceped His Son. God IS the Judge, but He won't coerce ("break your legs") so you can remain free to choose or reject Him for as long as you live. You might say that He DOES coerce through the threat of eternal suffering in Hell, but...(cont)
@Sweet92Sue (cont) Clearly that threat can be heeded or ignored. His Word sits quietly, ready for your to absorb or not. His people speak His Truths and are either believed, ignored, or mocked and silenced for it. Christians have suffered and continue to suffer much in warning a world who thinks us deluded or crazy or worse. Coersion? I wouldn't call it coersion if you're allowed to dismiss the threat as a fairy tale, a lie, or a myth as so many atheists do--and to do so openly and roundly.
Clearly the threat can be heeded or not in the same way a juror can heed or not the threat of the broken legs. So what is your point, I didn't really understand that?
I mean a juror can dismiss the threat as an 'idle threat' so i am unable to see how you are differentiating between the two situations.
The very fact that numerous christians have said to me that if I don't accept God and ask jesus for salvation that I will burn in hell demonstrates that this is a threat - at least they think so!
You don't believe the threat of hell to be real. A threat that carries no weight--that you feel is not just idle, but completely false--is no threat at all. God allows you the freedom to laugh at hell. To disbelieve it. Therefore, you're not coerced, right? Coersion requires a real threat. (Unless there IS some small part of you that fears hell is real? In that case, obviously, there is coersion).
As do I, Noel, but you dodged my point. How is hell coercive for those who reject God's existence? It you DO find hell coercive, it must be because you grant at least some chance that God and His Word are True. To put a finer point on it, I have ZERO fear of the flying spaghetti monster. I know he is not real. If you feel the same about God, what's the coersion? Or are you really an agnostic, and that window is still open for belief?
@noelplum99 But your vid puts forth the proposition that not enough evidence for God exists to convince you that He is real. You seem to be addressing the fact that hiddenness convinces you there is no God. In which case, again, what does it matter what God "requires"? I don't care two whits what the flying spaghetti monster "requires". He is not real--he is a complete fable beginning to end.
@noelplum99 So it seems to me that your objection is not His existence but His ways and His requirements. There's a great deal of difference between "I lack a belief in God" and "I don't like God's ways, His laws, His requirements and His religion". The first is disbelief, unbelief, whatever--the second, outright rejection. It sounds like you know He exists, but you reject Him. Is that a fair assessment? Peace to you.
Utterly ridiculous. You appear to be incapable of accepting that someone can argue from a pposition other than one they hold themselves.
Where to start:
Firstly, rewatch the video. This video is NOT about me saying there is not enough evidence for God, it is about Christians saying there is no little evidence for God and then attempting to explain away why that may be.
Secondly, the reason it matters what YOUR God requires rather than the Spaghetti Monster is on the back of 3-4 billion people...
....who claim to believe in your god. Am I to live my life in splendid isolation? Let me assure you Sue, if 3-4 billion people worshipped the FSM I would be paying HIM the attention and not Yahweh.
Thirdly, FYI I have as little belief in your God as we both do in the FSM and please be in no doubt of that. That does not preclude me from considering the position of someone who DOES believe in your God and discussing the impact of hell on their decision-making process (even if hell doesn't exist).
Fair enough, Noel, and thank you for the discourse. Let me tell you, atheists have told me that it makes no nevermind if all 6 billion people in the world belief in God; He is not real, therefore, I'm appealing to ad populum or some other garbage.
(cont) if I point to the fact that Jesus Christ is the most pervasive religious figure known to mankind. So your point is well-made and fairly taken that you spend your time speaking toward the most pervasive belief and don't waste time speaking about, say, Gaia or David Koresh. Many atheists won't even admit that Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the world's largest religion--forgive me for misreading your stance and position.
Well Sue, i wasn't claiming there are 4 billion followers of Jesus, I was grouping together muslims with you when I talked about your God. However, Christianity is clearly the largest and most significant religion in the world, no question about that.
Well then, your position is quite unclear indeed from start to finish. You were given good reason for the divine hiddenness of God, and why God chooses to blatantly reveal Himself to very few. On the vid you seem to imply that this is unfair, as in witholding evidence to a jury, but in the comment section admitted that God DOES want our love and fidelity. So if you grant that God wants our love and fidelity, why is divine hiddenness unfair, and why the comparison to juries? Juries are for
(cont) one purpose only: making reasoned, fair, unbiased decisions based on evidence, which you admitted in teh comment section is not analogous to belief in God.
The jury analogy is reasonable because the process that would be required for a 'relationship' with your God is a two stage process:
1) You need to believe he exists
2) You need to decide to make the right decision and ask him for salvation or burn in hell.
I cannot even get to point 2 as I see no evidence for His existence. IF I could get to point two then i would worship Him not least to save myself from eternal torture.
Excellent video, however, people assume that they are able to choose what they believe. I would say that what you believe is a result of your brain's interpretation of the evidence it has. You can not just choose to believe in God if the evidence leads your brain to come to a different conclusion. You can say you believe in God, you can follow the ideas in the Bible, but you can't make yourself truly believe in God if you don't.
It wouldn't matter if there was evidence because people would still rather take things into there own hands just as we Christians don't accept evolution as the way it all happened or whatever even Christians who believe in evolution will just say that God set it in motion so this whole business of evidence is irrelevant because atheist would still find a way to say it's all false
I like how you tackled this weak point in our major religions instead of trying to disprove god as a whole.
In my opinion trying to disprove god is a futile attempt since god is there to explain what we cannot control/explain yet(consciousness, life/death, etc).
On the other hand it's rather easy to prove that the major religions are basically tools used to control and bind communities together through sets of rules and rites.
Well I'm nearly out of characters so: well done sir!
to clearify my last reply ..eternity is concidered time and as I previously stated existance in eternity is concidered unknown. For what is eternity but time without end? this means no end as well as no begining... So can time exist within a no begining and no end time concept? so My understanding of this is that time it self is independant of eternity for "time" as "In the Begining" when the bible states this what is it talking about eternity? or time when creation or an event took place.
Jesus' door is always open. All it requires is a leap of blind faith. There's no doubt that He was here. If you research it will you find out that is absolutely true. Speaking only for myself, the only way to get to where you want to go is by doing that. Otherwise it will never make any sense.
....and exactly how would the universe look if He didn't exist?
Could you describe to me both what a godless materialistic universe would look like and what a universe created by the zoroastrian god 'Ahura Mazda' would look like perhaps?
But the true question here is ...could there be anything as such as a materialistic universe without God? wouldn't it contradict it self? I mean, wouldn't you agree that the universe just like earth is bound by time it self ? if He who created time wouldn't exist then how can we describe matter which depends on begining middle and end aka time..? I'll also post a video for only for argumentative sake as a response to this one.
So explain to me how you create time? Creation is an entirely temporal process and not a procees that can be undertook in the absence of time. For a start, you need to create something BEFORE it can exist but you cannot have a BEFORE time because the start of time is the start of time!!
Can you not see how you are playing fast and loose here? You blithely talk about something existing outside of time and then carry on as if time exists outside of time
That's the essence of my counter argument according to logic -the laws which abide within time- prohibits a concept of existance outside of time since it in itself is bound by time. Which is why existance in internity is part of what is scientifically labeled as the unknown. since nothing that has be created within time has ever been able to study anything out side of it. there fore not allowing a before... before the "before" aka time concept and in so binding all creation to the law of time.
Did you really mean 'internity' rather than 'exteriority' as i think I understand your point but it seems arse about face.
I am assuming you are saying that as temporal agents we are unable to conceive of existence outside of time?
My problem here would not be to disagree with you but to ask why then you insist on conceiving of existence outside of time? maybe i misunderstood your original point or something.
have work to do now but see you have made a response vid so will watch later on
richard dawkins and thomas paine wannabe
have some originality, douchebag copout.
ugoodHomeBoy 4 months ago
@ugoodHomeBoy
"richard dawkins and thomas paine wannabe"
And who are you aspiring to be like, Beavis or Butthead?
noelplum99 4 months ago
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@noelplum99 must be just another angry believer.
RoCk4LiFe90 2 weeks ago
He has provided evidence, your surrounded by it but you don't have the eyes to se it.
habfan24 5 months ago
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@habfan24 Please by all means enlighten us. Show us the evidence that we can't see.
RoCk4LiFe90 2 weeks ago
I know from my experience too that God has the power to forgive sins and even forgave my sins without being asked. I know God can change hearts mine and others. I've had two occurrences that God actually changed my heart. One that when God changed another's. God also told me when He was going to take away my beloved grandmother well ahead before she even got sick & other things.
Of course this is not a proof. But it is my personal proof of God. I cannot prove God but I can at least testify.
MichaelWithstand 8 months ago
@MichaelWithstand What a brutal "miracle". Hey, I'm Gawd. You're granny will get sick and you she might have another 5 years left to live even though she'll be sick, but lemme just kill her name. Now WORSHIP MEEEE!!!!!!!!!! BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGRAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!
TheCrazedGuitarist 7 months ago
@TheCrazedGuitarist What do you mean brutal. People don't live forever. She was 85 year old. By letting me know beforehand it prepared me and console me to know that it was her time. My time as yours too will come. It was a demonstration that God let His people know. No worry God may not be for everyone. Just live your life to the best of you can. Be happy.
MichaelWithstand 7 months ago
@MichaelWithstand
I find your personal experiences maximally unconvincing. Every day babies are born with no skin, with terrible and ultimately fatal deformities; good people get struck down and killed instantly; tsunamis wipe out tens or hundreds of thousands of people and your testament consists of God being generous enough to tell you he was about to kill your Gran. Your credulity threshold must be dragging on the floor if you are impressed by this.
noelplum99 6 months ago
God does provide evidence not to all but He does provide personal evidence to select individuals. So there's fallacy in this argument. I'm informed about God. I saw Christ when I was a 7th grader. His face shone the brightest light ever. I've had two of my prayers answered immediately. There was no coincidence in that. And some other things. God allowed me to know what death is and how it feels like. He also allowed me rarely to feel other people emotions and even once to know thought & others
MichaelWithstand 8 months ago
@MichaelWithstand
You are not the first person to have such an experience of Christ - many many others have had such an experience. The funny thing is that everyone who has such an experience is already aware of christianity. doesn't it seem strange to you that he never appears to the remote tribespeople who have never heard of Christianity or seen christian art? Maybe He just wants all tribespeople to burn in hell?
noelplum99 6 months ago
@noelplum99 Certainly I am not the only one. There are many many people with personal experience of Christ.
I read one once Muslim women who was healed by Christ and allowed to see Christ when she was still a Muslim. She did pray to Jesus Christ for 3 years though. Perhaps one of the easiest way to God is through going through the stupidity of faith. That faith that's tried with doubts and sufferings. Somehow God appreciates what little thing called faith. I do know however that God loves ever1
MichaelWithstand 6 months ago
@noelplum99 Fantastic point. Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, etc are all doomed to burn in Hell because they happen to be born into the wrong areas of the world and believe in the wrong gods. I honestly fail to see how this is something believers of the God of the Bible brush off or evade when confronted with this problem. This problem is detrimental to their whole premise that God is loving, forgiving, and allows for freewill. Well he is loving if you believe in him, the rest can be destroyd
RoCk4LiFe90 2 weeks ago
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@MichaelWithstand Personal accounts of revelation are absolutely worthless as evidence. For example, in my dream last night Thor visited me and told me that Norse mythology is not mythology but is very real, he also said that if I worship him I would go to Valhalla, those who don't worship him are going to face his wrath when he comes to Earth (he failed to give an exact date so we are left to speculate). From this personal encounter I can't tell you with all honesty that Thor is real.
RoCk4LiFe90 2 weeks ago
I've been reading arguments and watching videos the last week about atheism vs Christianity and this is one of my favorite arguments so far. Bravo!
DukeDonut 10 months ago
Didn't Lucifer rebel and from what I understand, Lucifer knew first hand.
sol3a1 1 year ago
1. There is a difference between not providing evidence and HELEPING IN STEALTH WITHOUT ANYONE KNOWING
AntiPsychopath 1 year ago
A rare genious...hard to find these days.
AntiPsychopath 1 year ago
I guess in a way it is more him leaning towards us to 'make' us love him to be with him but in the end you really do have free will you have a choice. Everlasting happiness,gold, riches, and anything you could imagine or hell. Its like working for a living to be with what you need and want. Bums don't just get happiness and riches and love they suffer because they don't work...
lickedteeth 1 year ago
great point at the end. It seems each time I make this point to theist friends, they retort with things like "It's because God, graceful as he is, actually wants you to make the right choice", without acknowledging the grotesque inconsistency with earlier remarks along the lines of "evidence hinders free will", as if the heaven-hell duality doesn't fuck up free will as it is...
ojal90 1 year ago
Science has many things as said in the bible although a lot of it isn't exactly as they say it is in science. Like them saying earth is millions of years old yet in the bible it says it is thousands hmmm doesn't make sense they say. We don't know what they thought as time back then when the bible was written maybe their time was different. Earth was created in 7 days in God's time maybe not ours. Maybe earth has been here longer as they say in science but in God's time it was here shorter.
lickedteeth 1 year ago
@lickedteeth The Bible doesn't actually put a number to the age of the Earth. The age was calculated by a bishop based on assumptions about the ages of characters appearing in the Old Testament.
A day is the time it takes for the planet Earth to do one rotation around its axis. There is no other way to make sense of that concept. Why would an all-mighty and all-knowing God not be able to translate his concept of time to something that makes sense to us? Or at least convey the vastness of it...
Griexxt 1 year ago
I believe your feel will is whether or not to believe in him and worship him. You can do all you want in life and we all know that life is short. So have your favors and whatever you want to do in life, but the minute you die you have nothing to look forward to but everlasting pain in hell. Or you can suck it up and be good as he says believe in him be strong and wait to have everlasting happiness. He loves you no matter what but will not walk you down the isle like a little baby.
lickedteeth 1 year ago
@lickedteeth That's a novel interpretation of the word "love"... if you don't love me back I'll throw you in Hell where you will be tortured for eternity.
Griexxt 1 year ago
@lickedteeth He loves you enough to have you burn in hell? God is our father. If God were my actual father, I would have been sent to child services a long time ago. Religion shouldn't be about "sucking it up." Rewatch the video, clear your mind, and enjoy living life to the fullest.
DukeDonut 10 months ago
>_< buddy that was a bad example..
lickedteeth 1 year ago
I'm back and I see I have alot of catching up to do.
petitemasochist --->I wouldn't use the word bitching but well said my friend ,LOL.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
Great Video!
herzglass 1 year ago
The united States of America was built on religion. Religion is awesome and all you atheist will be on your death bed and beg for forgiveness to god for not believing in him right before you die. You will see, I can guarantee it 100%
TheChristmasFan 1 year ago
@TheChristmasFan You are an ignorant benign cyst in the way of something great, you great fool. That you have insulted god and atheists in the very same comment is unparalleled and unrivalled in stupidity in the very thing you foolishly believe in.
Zeahftw 1 year ago
Great video, thanks so much for sharing. But I must say the best part was definitely scrolling down and seeing tiggster13 and sweethala1411 bitching. Haha
petitemasochist 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "The question I'm asking, though, is why is it all I ever hear about are the "bad" Muslims?" Bad news sell. If people saw a muslim imam talking about his religion would they be interested? No
"Why has your god allowed your faith to be tainted by the acts of terrorists?"He hasn't. The people who have read the Quran know that true muslims aren't terrorists. People who actually know true muslims following the orders of Allah know that muslims aren't terrorists.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@sweethala1411 And as you said Christians have done many bad things through out the history yet I don't think that all Christisns are bad people . If you want to know a religion you shouldn't just judge it by it's followers but by it's book. Also if all I know about Americans is from the news I would say that they are bad people .Just like all you know about Muslims is what you see on tv.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "so why shouldn't I expect that you treat cartoonists and their publishers with the same respect that I do" Well, if they would've treated me and my religion with respect I would've respected them . But why should I respect someone who's obviously not respecting me?
"I think that's a reasonable request." Not really. I wouldn't expect from you to treat someone who does insulting cartoons about your mum with respect.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "Have Muslims ever protested insulting cartoons about the Pope? Or buddha? Or jesus? Has anyone?" I actually wasn't awear there were some cartoons about them. And it is rude to make cartoons about anyone let alone prophets. I know you don't believe in them but others do. People make cartoons to say something. And what was said about prophet muhammed peace be upon him is disrespectful . I've never said "You can insult everyone else, but not him" not to you nor to anyone else .
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@sweethala1411 If anything I'm saying the opposite of that. I'm not saying only muslims deserve respect .I'm saying everyone does .
sweethala1411 1 year ago
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@tiggster13 "But you are right about one thing. I really don't care what you think."
One thing? Are you kidding me?? I'm right about sooooo many things ...
sweethala1411 1 year ago
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@tiggster13 "But you are right about one thing. I really don't care what you think."
One thing? Are you kidding me? I'm right about sooooooooo many things not just one :)
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13"You said that you were a slave and seemed proud to be so. I didn't put that label on you, you put it on yourself" I did and I am proud of it. It's not what yousaid but how you said it. I can see that you are judging me I just don't know if it was because I'm muslim or only for believing in God.And according to you, not fighting temptation and doing what you want when you want it , you are also a slave. I'm a slave of God and you're a slave of your own desires.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
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@tiggster13 "replace the words "good and "bad" with words like "black" and "white", "male" and "female", "rich" and "poor", "Muslim" and "Jew"" You're talking about gender,race and religion . I'm only talking about actions .
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "The prejudism is that there are good and bad people. There aren't. There's just people - flawed people, people who sometimes do bad things. "
So someone like osamah bin laden is equal to someone like you??
I'm sure you think of yourself as a good person. I'm also sure that osamah thinks of himself as a good person. But to from others point of view are you really equal?
sweethala1411 1 year ago
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@tiggster13 "Hey, hold on here! You said that you were a slave and seemed proud to be so. I didn't put that label on you, you put it on yourself" I AM proud of it. And it's not what you said it's how you said it. "I doubt it. I'm not a slave like you are" .I can see that you are judging me,but I don't know if it was because I'm muslim or just for believing in God. And according to you , you're a slave ,too.
I'm a slave of God and you're a slave of your desires.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
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@tiggster13 "take your sentence above and replace the words "good and "bad" with words like "black" and "white", "male" and "female", "rich" and "poor", "Muslim" and "Jew"." You are talking about sex, race and religion. I'm talking about actions . There's a BIG difference.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "So tell me, do you think that christians and jews and hindus don't actually have faith? That they don't actually believe in the things they worship?
Are you really that close minded and ignorant?" I've never said they didn't. And I'm neither close minded nor ignorant . BUT my mom has always told me that people look at others as themselves so maybe you are close minded and ignorant.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "anyone who can strap a bomb to his chest and blow himself up for god has to have a lot of faith"Not Necessarily . Those people could only be seeking revenge. He could be a man coming from the grossery store finding his family all killed and his house destroied by Amarican solders. He could be a man who had never harmed anyone in his life. "Americans were only looking for terrorists and they made a mistake " wont be an enough of excuse for him.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@sweethala1411 I'm not saying that what they do is ok but how can I blame them for feeling this way? Wouldn't I feel the same ? Wouldn't you?
Especially since it's all allowed for the American army. They're looking for terrorists so a few hundreds of thousands of innocent people dead is ok . After all, those innocent people are not Americans.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "Why would anyone believe in a god whose followers are thugs and bigots?" That can not be absolutly true. I know I didn't threat anyone and I'm sure millions of muslims haven't also. Why are you talking only about "thugs and bigots" .
There are many MANY better people to repersent Islam but you only talk about the bad ones like there are no other muslims.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "You're saying that you deserve special respect that no one else has a right to expect."In what way am I saying that?
I didn't insult anyone. I'm not making an insulting cartoon about you or anyone so why wouldn't I demand to be treated the same way I'm treating everyone else? I think it's a reasonable request.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 Why are you putting terrorists in the same catagory with who I'm calling man of faith? I believe a man of faith is a man who follows Gods words out in the open and in secret. Not someone doing the exact opposite of what God said.
"How about because we are all equal in his eyes"
Again, why would God equalize good people with bad people?
"I doubt it. I'm not a slave like you are"
Wow. Now talk about prejudism .
I know you don't care but you're getting smaller and smaller in my eyes.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "Why do you think that someone who can "do whatever they want" would automatically become a murderer? This is the prejudism I was talking about, equating someone who is not of your faith with someone who must be inherently evil" What??I don't think that someone who can do what ever they want would automatically be murderer. That's what you suggest . That God make the good and the bad equal. So I guess that's the prejudism you were talking about.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
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@tiggster13 " Are you saying that non-Muslims - people who deny Allah and his prophet - PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOU, will be allowed to go to heaven?"
They could.
I'm not God so I can't say who will or will not go to heaven.
And there are muslim people who are different from me. Different doesn't mean hell. You talk like you're sure I'm going to heaven which is impossible.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
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@tiggster13 " Are you saying that non-Muslims - people who deny Allah and his prophet - PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOU, will be allowed to go to heaven?"
They could.
I'm not God so I can't say who will or will not go to heaven.
And there are muslim people who are different from me. Different doesn't mean hell. You talk like you're sure I'm going to heaven which is impossible.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
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@tiggster13 " Are you saying that non-Muslims - people who deny Allah and his prophet - PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOU, will be allowed to go to heaven?"
They could.
I'm not God so I can't say who will or will not go to heaven.
And there are muslim people who are different from me. Different doesn't mean hell. You talk like you're sure I'm going to heaven which is impossible.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "Are you intentionally ignoring the point I'm trying to make? "
I'm not ignoring anything I'm just not convinced.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "So you'll become outraged only if you think you can manipulate people?" It's one thing when a bad people do bad things but it's a whole other thing when people who say the are good and say they are NOT racists do a bad thing and think it's ok.
If muslim people didn't say anything about it then they would be sure that it's ok to do so. However, terrorists wouldn't listen no matter what we say or do.
I can't believe you're defending what those people did.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
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@tiggster13 "I Still don't see a reason to believe in your god."
Maybe it's because you're here arguing with me instade of actually reading the Quran and understanding my religion from its source
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 No, that wouldn't be justice. Why would a man of faith be equal to a murderer ? Why would God make a man worshipping him equal with a man doesn't even bother trying?"There is nothing immoral about being free and living life to its fullest." Who said that religious people aren't living their lives??
Maybe I'm enjoying my life more than you enjoy yours :)
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "I thought god was supposed to be better than we are."
I still believe he is.
In the Quran God mentioned his hands and eyes. Humans also have hands and eyes ,but they're not the same . God never described them, though.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "He gives us the freedom to do what we want and laws to punish us if we do what we want" He did warned us and he did tell us what to do and what not to do. Everyone are capable of killing someone. But they'll be punished by law if they did so. I really don't understand why is it easy for us to follow human laws and so hard to follow Gods laws.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
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@tiggster13 "I thought god was supposed to be better than we are."
I still believe he is.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
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@tiggster13 "He gives us the freedom to do what we want and laws to punish us if we do what we want." He punishes us only when we don't do what he told us to do.
You are capable of killing a man. But you'll be punished for doing so by the law. God didn't just put laws to punish us. He warned us first . Why is it so easy for us to follow human laws ,but so hard to follow Gods laws?
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 No one suffers in this life and the next life. If you did good things you will be rewarded for it even if you were a siner. Many dis-believers do alot of good things and help other people so God will reward them . Most likely in this life.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 They wont suffer just because they're different from me . If we were to suffer, it would be because we didn't listen to Gods orders. I'm muslim ,but just because I am doesn't mean I could never go to hell. Maybe I've done more bad things than good in this life.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "Consider, who will ultimately be rewarded."
It's like scales really. How many sins and how many good deeds.
It's not up to me to say who goes to heaven and who doesn't. that's one of the first things my parents have taught me about Islam. Never say "that person is going to hell" . Maybe to the eyes of God he is better than me.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "They'll riot in the streets like barbarians over a cartoon but how many times have they marched to demand abolishment of al Qaida?" Yeah I'm sure al qaida will just give up and terrorists will turn themselves in if we just did that.
And it wasn't just a cartoon, it was ment to insult a prophet and a nation. And thank you very much for "like barbarians" . It's shocking how your description fits me.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 Well, excuse us for not wanting to handle terrorism the way your country is handling it. You sent your big army to Afghanistan and killed a whole lot of innocent people and yet you haven't find bin laden. Wow ,big acheivement.. really. I wonder why muslims didn't think of it first. My country fights the terrorists they find and actually know where they are. We don't attack a whole country and kill random people and hope that who we killed were terrorists.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "This is not a justice" Then what would be justice? Letting everyone do what ever they want with out setting limits and making the good people and the bad equal by letting them all go to heaven?Equalizing someone who spends his life fighting temptation with someone giving up to temptations without even thinking twice about it?
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 And could you please explane again how am I "bigoted, prejudiced and self righteous
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "Are you a good person or are you just the slave of a good master?"
Maybe I'm both. I am a good person because I am a slave of the good master. I don't know who would I be if I were an athiest for example. I am who I am because of my religion. And I do think of my self as a good person . Not the best of course but still.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 Oh please what Islamic people?? I don't think of Osama bin Laden and his people to be the face of Islam. The just go around and kill innocent people saying that God asked them to do so. In Islam even the govenment can't blow up a place where terrorists are if there were innocent people in it. Even if those innocent people are the terrorists's families
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 I don't care what the religion of the person I'm helping. If I saw someone who needs help I would do what ever I can to help them. God never said help other people inless they were from another religion.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 We are not suffering for being not perfect , we suffer for doing sins and saying it is ok to do so. We make mistakes and not ask Gods forgiveness. God knows we are not perfect. All he asks for is for us to repent. I don't have to be perfect to repent .
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 No, they don't grt excused. Many religions out there are absolutely flawed and the followers of these religions see that yet they don't look for the right religion . God is not holding us to blame for what Adam and Eve did. We won't be punished for them. And so what if Adam and Eve made a mistake .After all they did repent and they were forgiven. That's all we have to do ,repent. Even if we made a million mistake .
sweethala1411 1 year ago
"Those who suffer will be rewarded and those who make people suffer will be punished ."
I'm really trying to understand why is it "shame on me'' to say that
should I have said that those who suffer will only suffer more and will have no way out of this?
should I have said that those who make people suffer will live their lives happy and there wont be any consequences ?
What is wrong with you miss tiggster13 ??
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "So why don't the damned get a shot at redemption? Don't you see the hypocrisy in this?" There are no damned in this life.
God gives us all our lives to repent, isn't that a chance??
I mean I have a chance to repent from the day I make sins till I die.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 "Which proves it isn't morality he cares about but obedience." In my religion they are the same
If I talked badly about you in your abcence and asked Gods forgivness he would forgive me but inless you forgive me for what I said at the day of judgement some of my good deeds go to you or some of your sins comes to me.>>I'm not sure if you'll understand that.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 I might have hurt someone and I might get punished for it.
No, I have no idea how many people have suffered on the hands of Christians. But it is their busness not mine.
And why is it shame on me?
Have I killed someone and not remember it? Have I destroyed someone's life and nor remember it?
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 Infact I would've choosen B and C because they are much alike.
To me it is the right thing to do because God instructed us to help those who need help and B is a plus.
evil doesn't exist to make you want heaven. Evil actually want's you to want this life and forget all about the next life.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 Please we shouldn't even call it a test. God never asked us to do something extravagant. Most of what he told us to do is for our own good. Actually I don't believe we are worthless at all. Maybe we suffer because of our actions or maybe we suffer to get something better.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 hahahaha how did you assume that I'm convinced that I'm saved?
trust me I'm not. I probably fear hell more than you do. And why wouldn't be aware of the test? That's exactly why God sent his prophets. So we wouldn't have this excuse. plus God doesn't judge us only by what we do but by our intentions doing it. Say some one pushed you and you hit a man behind you and the man fell and broke his arm would you be punished for that? no because it was an accident
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 He gave us life as a gift. He didn't have to creat us ,but he did.
How did I make it sound like God is a sadistic monster? . So what is he is testing us? don't we sometimes test the people we love? does that make our love for them less? . According to what I say, God only punishes those who desereve to be punished, but he also rewards those who deserve to be rewarded. We make mistakes ,but the question is if we were to repent or not.
A perfect loving God gives us a chance to change
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 No, I'n not saying our will is superior to God's. As I said , if God only lets us to do what he wants and not let us do what we want to do then this life wouln't be a test. If war, suicide, slavery, child abuse don't exist then why would I seek heaven so much. This world would BE heaven . Those who suffer will be rewarded and those who make people suffer will be punished . It's just a when matter.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 By giving us free will his is testing us. without free will we would be just robots. It is obvious that with out free will we all would be perfect and wouldn't have any mistakes. And how would you know how God feels about us? . If God is willing to destroy us for not being perfect then the only people who will go to heaven are prophets. The rest of us are doomed according to your theory
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 you said you feel sorry for me ... :)
please don't
I don't feel sorry for myself. I love my life and I love who I am
Of course I hate my life some times just like everyone else, but not because of my religion .
If there's anything keeping me sane in this crazy life ,it is my religion.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 well, war is people killing each other not killing them selves
And who said that God allowed war?
he didn't allow sucide yet many people do it anyway
If every one followed God's orders, world would be a better place to live in not worst
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 But the values I follow are the same ones God placed on me.Respecting and helping others,honoring the guest and the neighbor, being kind to other people and every thing else. I don't it is God's plane to feed me to snakes and if we were an experement I think he would say everything is allowed and see how far we would go.
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 why? he was testing them , just like we are now being tested
millions and millions are not suffering for Adam and Eve's mistake...we only suffer of our own action. And even we human don't let people whom we don't trust come in our houses why should he let us stay in heaven if we weren't trust worthy?
like children hahaha he would have to take ALOT so we would be good
and thinking about it ,there are lots of temptations he would have to take almost every thing
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 what do you mean have no values? my religion sets a very high values to follow.I don't think I'm choosing the wrong path just may be a few wrong detours but God is forgiving once I return :) .And if there was no love there wouldn't be forgiveness. If I were as you say statistic,expendable,worthless then why it is forbidden to kill my self?or to injure my self?
why doesn't God say they're just statistic...allow them to kill themselves , let's see how many of them will do that ??
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 @tiggster13 it's like when God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree
yet the got tempted and ate from the tree
why would we blame God?
he warned them but they didn't listen so the got out of heaven
I think what is being tested is our resistance of temptation and our choices facing these temptations
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@tiggster13 yeah but that's the difference between God and law
see if God stopped us from doing wrong he is stopping us from acting upon our choices and all we are doing is good therefore this life is meaningless
this life is a test
who will follow Gods orders and who will not, who will do good and who will not
if we can't upon our choices then I guess we all deserve heaven and no need for this life
we all would be in heaven right now ... :)
sweethala1411 1 year ago
And also the law tells you not to kill and not to steal or you will be punished .does that mean the law is taking your free will?
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@sweethala1411 If "The law" also was in the position of having created me in a deterministic universe, knowing in advance that I would break "The law", then I have never made a choice that is independent of "The law"'s act of creating me, and therefore "The law" has no moral basis for judging me. Just as I can't judge a rock I have thrown on a moral basis if it happens to break something.
So it's better to say divine command can't claim moral justice, only might makes right.
Gnomefro 1 year ago
@Gnomefro
of course you have a choice ...and if The law had known in advance that you would break it does that mean that it can punish you for something you haven't done yet??
we do have a choice otherwise we would be just robots really,wouldn't we?
we're not pushed to do anything ,every thing we do we do by choice
and I don't think we have the right to blame anyone for our action just simply because they knew that we would do them
sweethala1411 1 year ago
i don't believe it's to exercise your free will,but to exercise your minds.
he did give us evidences of his existance like the way our body works,the way the earth moves around it self and around the sun and so all the other planets.
jury also would be given many evidences ,maybe not very clear ,but still evidences.
like if there were a video tape ,clear enough to see the criminal killing a man then why would you need a jury ? what would the jury's job be ??
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@sweethala1411
"he did give us evidences of his existance like ........ the way the earth moves around it self and around the sun and so all the other planets."
I just wondered: in a universe NOT created by Allah, what would you expect to be different (how would you expect the planets to move, instead)? It seems to me that unless you can answer this very important question then it is meaningless to say the present arrangement is evidence for deistic involvement.
noelplum99 1 year ago
@noelplum99
I guess you have a point there
but if it wasn't created by Allah then who created it??
I guess Allah is just the name of the creator, I mean if I called you any other name than noelplum it wouldn't change who you really are, what you do or have done
so the universe was created therefore the planets move perfectly with out colliding in to earth
and if it were not created I don't believe we would be having this conversation
:)
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@sweethala1411
Nothing collides with the earth because the planets move in regular, predictable orbits caused by the simple law of gravitation.
Now why does that suggest a god? It is like saying without a god planetary orbits would be unpredictable and planets would move in irregular ways... BUT if they did then theists would simply say ' who do you think it is that makes the planets move in complicated unpredictable ways?' - in other words the same argument would be made
noelplum99 1 year ago
@noelplum99
I'm well awear of the law of gravitation and so is every one else,but where did gravity come from??
the thing is I can't believe something so organized would come out of no where
someone had to creat it
I mean you're the science lover here..you would never believe me if I told you that things simply creat themselves,would you??
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@sweethala1411
"you would never believe me if I told you that things simply creat themselves,would you?? "
The Philosopher Daniel Dennett has said that the only thing we know about the origin of the universe is that it will not be intuitive.
I agree with you, the idea of a naturalistic origin of the universe sounds counterintuitive but so does the idea of a pre-existant intelligent entity that exists outside of time but acts in temporal ways.
noelplum99 1 year ago
@noelplum99 I don't understand you
if you don't believe it was created by its own and you don't believe there's a God who created it, then where do you believe it came from?
I know there's no way for you to know for sure ,but you must have some idea in your mind or simply just an imagination or some thought about it
you can't deny both ideas and not have your own idea about the subject...
sweethala1411 1 year ago
@sweethala1411
Really I have no idea. there are so many possibilities (if you have time watch my video 'the greatest argument for god in the world ... ever') and ALL of them amount to total guesswork.
The inflationary big bang model can account for, in one incarnation, everything other than around 10kg of initial mass/energy but even if it accounted for all the mass it would still need to account for the fundamental laws
My problem is this sweethala: I cannot envisage ANY explanation I would...
noelplum99 1 year ago
@noelplum99
...be happy with, even theoretically.
I mean are you REALLY satisfied with your chosen explanation. Don't you find it unsatisfying to simply say Allah has just always existed and that is all there is to it? You reckon Allah would be satisfied with that or would He want to know why He exists.
You see even if Allah DOES exist, why a god rather than no god? Why create this universe rather than another?
noelplum99 1 year ago
@noelplum99
Imo, this is one question where neither science nor religion comes close to providing a satisfactory explanation and both sides are guilty of overselling the case they are capable of making.
noelplum99 1 year ago
@sweethala1411 The problem with the "Someone had to create it" line of reasoning is that it is not an explanation. Unless you do special pleading and state that "God doesn't need an explanation", such parodies of explanations just beg the question "I can't believe a God so organized would come out of no where - someone had to create it".
However, if you do special pleading, the question becomes "Why didn't you do it before introducing the creator?" He really is redundant if you allow that.
Gnomefro 1 year ago
@sweethala1411 Also, the Islamic "Things don't create themselves" argument is profoundly moronic for several reasons. First, it may actually be the case that non-causal, natural, particle creation events happen all the time due to uncertainty. (See virtual particles etc)
Second, from a macro perspective, absolutely nothing you observe seems to be "created". It's just rearrangement of preexisting matter. So it's not obvious that anything really is "created" in the sense of the muslim argument.
Gnomefro 1 year ago
@sweethala1411 "so the universe was created therefore the planets move perfectly with out colliding in to earth"
Wrong. The earth, and all the other planets are known to be the cause of countless collisions of matter. They are a causal result of gravity attracting mass. Ever heard of the extinction of the dinosaurs? In fact... do you even know the history of the rock in the Kaa'ba? Or how about the 1908 meteor impact in Siberia? The devastating impact lit up the sky as far as London.
Gnomefro 1 year ago
@sweethala1411 The reason things seldom collides with the earth is painfully obvious: The earth has been here for a long time, and most objects that were likely to collide with it already have, and are now part of the earth. The same is true for the other planets. In short, the gravity system has converged on a stable state. By the way, the earth is also "perfectly situated" to be swallowed up by the sun when it dies.
Gnomefro 1 year ago
Slice of deep fried pwn. Mmmm.
TheGreatStonedOne 1 year ago
It's all *within* us not without. That's why following "religion" and false prophets have led humanity and the world NO WHERE except down a very bad path.
jwils924 1 year ago
Great video. I always find it completely baffling when a Christian presents this argument. After all, the Bible is full of counterexamples: Jesus's disciples, Paul, Elijah, Moses, doubting Thomas, etc. Were all of these people were stripped of their free will?
davemccune 1 year ago
I think its funny when people say an event from the bible, such as Adam and Eve (that whole shibang) and I then say, "how do you know that it happened and that its not made up"? then they say "because its in the bible, duh", I then proceed to say, "well how do you know the bible is factual, and not made up and written by some guy who wants to con others into their crazy belief system"? and then they say "well its the bible, it can't be wrong". ...people like that make me giggle.
DrOctagonapus132 1 year ago
Oh my gosh I love this guy!
WendiTheP00h 1 year ago
oh there you go exposing God's schizophrenia! he's not going to be happy with you !
carkunkula 1 year ago
Because those of true belief (not just religiously raised into) will have had personal experiences that created an impact they will never be able to deny.
And their thesis Holy book will evoke the same kind of impact and bring them to a higher level of personal understanding.
I don't think anyone outside of their religion will expect an atheist who persistently denies God to understand their message.
2thetruthback 2 years ago
Religion:
The tower of irrationality - what floor are you on? :)
pokerslut530 2 years ago
He's given us evidence through His prophcies. Since it was His eyewitness account of creation, and He does agree with science, at least where science is rational, it's all we can go by as far as creation goes, but prophcies are abit more complicated, but there for a reason. There, so we can prove His existance. It was hard at first, but once I discovered His real name, pieces fell together and ever since, I make new discoverys, dailey.
As far as your burn in hell comment. I don't buy it..cont.
materialclassified 2 years ago
The reason is bc I found out if you don't invite Him into your life, He doesn't know you. You don't exit either. So when you do not exist, you return from where you came, dust or dirt.
But to get back to prophecy. Take Abraham and his son Issac. Abraham and his son were a dress rehersal for our Heavenly Father, and His son.
What did Abes son carry on his back, wood.
What did the Messi/Yah carry on His back.
How'd both arrive, by donkey.
Who was gonna lose his son, Abe the father...cont.
materialclassified 2 years ago
Who else lost His son, Yahweh.
What did Yahushua(Jesus) have on His head, thorns.
What did Abe find with its head stuck in the thorns as a replacement, sacrificial lamb.
And the biggest kicker is, Old Abes took place in the exact same spot exactly 2000yrs earlier.
Guess what else friend. You are living in the final jubilee.
He will come in my name, Mess/Yah.
His real name, our real Father. The one who knew you before all others. His name has been hidden by King and Cleric.
YAHWEH.
materialclassified 2 years ago
That was the most long-winded way of going about saying "I believe even though common sense tells me not to because I have a book that tells me to"
You didn't provide any logical or rational reason to believe in god.
"I found out if you don't invite Him into your life, He doesn't know you." That's because god is a self-imposed mental illness, a figment of your mind. Google delusional psychosis and stockholm syndrome.
I advise you put your bible down and start living life. Time to grow up.
pokerslut530 2 years ago
@materialclassified Which brings us to the most disgusting of the Christian beliefs. The belief that our moral responsibility is nonexistent, because our wrong doings ("sins") have already been forgiven because of a human sacrifice. That's seriously messed up.
Not to mention it further shows the stupidity of this "god", that he had to sacrifice his son in order to fix a problem in a system that he created in the first place. That doesn't demonstrate omniscience.
Hobble 1 year ago
To further my point, read the definition of what faith is from a bible study website:
"If we are instructed to live by something, it is important that we understand what it is. From this scripture we learn that faith is the:
-material or stuff needed for what we are hoping for
-foundation for the things we hope for
-proof that the things we can not see physically do exist
-proof that invisible things do exist"
Or in other words, faith is being crazy.
Hope that puts things into perspective.
pokerslut530 2 years ago
@fulekkei
As long as you don't get it drunk and try and take advantage of it then that's fine ;)
noelplum99 2 years ago
this is now a featured video, congratz.
Epydemic2020 2 years ago
thank you :)
noelplum99 2 years ago
You answered your own question, Noel. If you saw God in all His Glory--if you experienced His full Presence of Holiness--you would either be enfolded into His love or you would burn for your sin, depending on whether you have acceped His Son. God IS the Judge, but He won't coerce ("break your legs") so you can remain free to choose or reject Him for as long as you live. You might say that He DOES coerce through the threat of eternal suffering in Hell, but...(cont)
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago
@Sweet92Sue (cont) Clearly that threat can be heeded or ignored. His Word sits quietly, ready for your to absorb or not. His people speak His Truths and are either believed, ignored, or mocked and silenced for it. Christians have suffered and continue to suffer much in warning a world who thinks us deluded or crazy or worse. Coersion? I wouldn't call it coersion if you're allowed to dismiss the threat as a fairy tale, a lie, or a myth as so many atheists do--and to do so openly and roundly.
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago
Clearly the threat can be heeded or not in the same way a juror can heed or not the threat of the broken legs. So what is your point, I didn't really understand that?
I mean a juror can dismiss the threat as an 'idle threat' so i am unable to see how you are differentiating between the two situations.
The very fact that numerous christians have said to me that if I don't accept God and ask jesus for salvation that I will burn in hell demonstrates that this is a threat - at least they think so!
noelplum99 2 years ago
You don't believe the threat of hell to be real. A threat that carries no weight--that you feel is not just idle, but completely false--is no threat at all. God allows you the freedom to laugh at hell. To disbelieve it. Therefore, you're not coerced, right? Coersion requires a real threat. (Unless there IS some small part of you that fears hell is real? In that case, obviously, there is coersion).
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago
Alot of Christians will tell you it is a very real threat. You may not believe in hell, Sue, but a lot of Christians do!
noelplum99 2 years ago
As do I, Noel, but you dodged my point. How is hell coercive for those who reject God's existence? It you DO find hell coercive, it must be because you grant at least some chance that God and His Word are True. To put a finer point on it, I have ZERO fear of the flying spaghetti monster. I know he is not real. If you feel the same about God, what's the coersion? Or are you really an agnostic, and that window is still open for belief?
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago
Ok, I understand your question.
The problem is that God doesn't just ask us to believe in Him but to worship Him, have a filial relationship with Him and ask Him for salvation.
So the question of coercion arises not so much in terms of bald belief but in whether those who have belief decide to accept a relationship with Him.
You said it yourself in your opening gambit to me - I have to accept his son as my saviour, a disinterested belief is not sufficient.
noelplum99 2 years ago
@noelplum99 But your vid puts forth the proposition that not enough evidence for God exists to convince you that He is real. You seem to be addressing the fact that hiddenness convinces you there is no God. In which case, again, what does it matter what God "requires"? I don't care two whits what the flying spaghetti monster "requires". He is not real--he is a complete fable beginning to end.
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago
@noelplum99 So it seems to me that your objection is not His existence but His ways and His requirements. There's a great deal of difference between "I lack a belief in God" and "I don't like God's ways, His laws, His requirements and His religion". The first is disbelief, unbelief, whatever--the second, outright rejection. It sounds like you know He exists, but you reject Him. Is that a fair assessment? Peace to you.
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago
Utterly ridiculous. You appear to be incapable of accepting that someone can argue from a pposition other than one they hold themselves.
Where to start:
Firstly, rewatch the video. This video is NOT about me saying there is not enough evidence for God, it is about Christians saying there is no little evidence for God and then attempting to explain away why that may be.
Secondly, the reason it matters what YOUR God requires rather than the Spaghetti Monster is on the back of 3-4 billion people...
noelplum99 2 years ago
....who claim to believe in your god. Am I to live my life in splendid isolation? Let me assure you Sue, if 3-4 billion people worshipped the FSM I would be paying HIM the attention and not Yahweh.
Thirdly, FYI I have as little belief in your God as we both do in the FSM and please be in no doubt of that. That does not preclude me from considering the position of someone who DOES believe in your God and discussing the impact of hell on their decision-making process (even if hell doesn't exist).
noelplum99 2 years ago
Fair enough, Noel, and thank you for the discourse. Let me tell you, atheists have told me that it makes no nevermind if all 6 billion people in the world belief in God; He is not real, therefore, I'm appealing to ad populum or some other garbage.
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago
(cont) if I point to the fact that Jesus Christ is the most pervasive religious figure known to mankind. So your point is well-made and fairly taken that you spend your time speaking toward the most pervasive belief and don't waste time speaking about, say, Gaia or David Koresh. Many atheists won't even admit that Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the world's largest religion--forgive me for misreading your stance and position.
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago
Well Sue, i wasn't claiming there are 4 billion followers of Jesus, I was grouping together muslims with you when I talked about your God. However, Christianity is clearly the largest and most significant religion in the world, no question about that.
Thank you for the discourse also Sue :)
noelplum99 2 years ago
Well then, your position is quite unclear indeed from start to finish. You were given good reason for the divine hiddenness of God, and why God chooses to blatantly reveal Himself to very few. On the vid you seem to imply that this is unfair, as in witholding evidence to a jury, but in the comment section admitted that God DOES want our love and fidelity. So if you grant that God wants our love and fidelity, why is divine hiddenness unfair, and why the comparison to juries? Juries are for
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago
(cont) one purpose only: making reasoned, fair, unbiased decisions based on evidence, which you admitted in teh comment section is not analogous to belief in God.
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago
The jury analogy is reasonable because the process that would be required for a 'relationship' with your God is a two stage process:
1) You need to believe he exists
2) You need to decide to make the right decision and ask him for salvation or burn in hell.
I cannot even get to point 2 as I see no evidence for His existence. IF I could get to point two then i would worship Him not least to save myself from eternal torture.
noelplum99 2 years ago
Well, that was outstanding. does not necessarily address the problems Veritas48 say with the argument from unbelief, but outstanding on its own.
I commend you.
Chopstewie 2 years ago
Great jury analogy!
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
Excellent.
Cimbolic 2 years ago
Another great video Noel.
Hexdoll 2 years ago
Excellent video, however, people assume that they are able to choose what they believe. I would say that what you believe is a result of your brain's interpretation of the evidence it has. You can not just choose to believe in God if the evidence leads your brain to come to a different conclusion. You can say you believe in God, you can follow the ideas in the Bible, but you can't make yourself truly believe in God if you don't.
reilender1 2 years ago
It wouldn't matter if there was evidence because people would still rather take things into there own hands just as we Christians don't accept evolution as the way it all happened or whatever even Christians who believe in evolution will just say that God set it in motion so this whole business of evidence is irrelevant because atheist would still find a way to say it's all false
Trashbagsam 2 years ago
I like how you tackled this weak point in our major religions instead of trying to disprove god as a whole.
In my opinion trying to disprove god is a futile attempt since god is there to explain what we cannot control/explain yet(consciousness, life/death, etc).
On the other hand it's rather easy to prove that the major religions are basically tools used to control and bind communities together through sets of rules and rites.
Well I'm nearly out of characters so: well done sir!
DarkUno27 2 years ago
to clearify my last reply ..eternity is concidered time and as I previously stated existance in eternity is concidered unknown. For what is eternity but time without end? this means no end as well as no begining... So can time exist within a no begining and no end time concept? so My understanding of this is that time it self is independant of eternity for "time" as "In the Begining" when the bible states this what is it talking about eternity? or time when creation or an event took place.
dooup 2 years ago
Eternity is a terrible word as it can mean 'timeless' or an infinitude of time.
A word best avoided I think.
noelplum99 2 years ago
Jesus' door is always open. All it requires is a leap of blind faith. There's no doubt that He was here. If you research it will you find out that is absolutely true. Speaking only for myself, the only way to get to where you want to go is by doing that. Otherwise it will never make any sense.
Dax1 2 years ago
creation testifies of itself...God has given us a whole universe of proof that He exisits!
taurusgreen82 2 years ago
@taurusgreen82
....and exactly how would the universe look if He didn't exist?
Could you describe to me both what a godless materialistic universe would look like and what a universe created by the zoroastrian god 'Ahura Mazda' would look like perhaps?
noelplum99 2 years ago
But the true question here is ...could there be anything as such as a materialistic universe without God? wouldn't it contradict it self? I mean, wouldn't you agree that the universe just like earth is bound by time it self ? if He who created time wouldn't exist then how can we describe matter which depends on begining middle and end aka time..? I'll also post a video for only for argumentative sake as a response to this one.
dooup 2 years ago
@dooup
"He who created time wouldn't exist"
So explain to me how you create time? Creation is an entirely temporal process and not a procees that can be undertook in the absence of time. For a start, you need to create something BEFORE it can exist but you cannot have a BEFORE time because the start of time is the start of time!!
Can you not see how you are playing fast and loose here? You blithely talk about something existing outside of time and then carry on as if time exists outside of time
noelplum99 2 years ago
...that said, your response video would be more than welcome :)
noelplum99 2 years ago
That's the essence of my counter argument according to logic -the laws which abide within time- prohibits a concept of existance outside of time since it in itself is bound by time. Which is why existance in internity is part of what is scientifically labeled as the unknown. since nothing that has be created within time has ever been able to study anything out side of it. there fore not allowing a before... before the "before" aka time concept and in so binding all creation to the law of time.
dooup 2 years ago
Did you really mean 'internity' rather than 'exteriority' as i think I understand your point but it seems arse about face.
I am assuming you are saying that as temporal agents we are unable to conceive of existence outside of time?
My problem here would not be to disagree with you but to ask why then you insist on conceiving of existence outside of time? maybe i misunderstood your original point or something.
have work to do now but see you have made a response vid so will watch later on
noelplum99 2 years ago
Comment removed
dooup 2 years ago