Added: 4 years ago
From: BoxWrench
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  • whats a piston? lmao jk

  • the boring machine sounds exciting!

  • Awesome..

  • interesting video....=)

  • good thing these primitive engines will soon be replaced by electric motors.

  • I think I want to be machinist. An earlier comment was correct. The video didn't show if the cylinders were bored in the correct locations. No two blocks are alike, cast or otherwise. I'd like to see that process of "shifting" the cylinders over a few thousandths.

  • please...its an ENGINE BLOCK not a MOTOR!

  • if theres no ridge in the top of the cyl. i wouldn't even boar it out just hone it to get a good cross hatch. and i don't like going to .060 over i bought a crate engine from jasper broke it in and gave it a stomping and it seized right up i took the heads off it and the cyl. was split all the way to the bottom. the piston said .060 so jasper sent me another motor i pulled the heads off to put ARP studs and better head gaskets and that one was .030 and i never had a problem again.

  • excellent !!!!!

  • Are you serious? Where am I going to buy a huge machine like this on ebay? Just shipping alone would kill me. I think I'll stick to using a drill bit steel brush and some steel wool, and let the axle and cylinders wear everything into the right shape.

  • Wouldnt the weight of the honingstone make the holes to be slightly more ground on the bottom then on the top?

  • @dtiydr negative. there's no play in the honing stone, it has even pressure all the way around the hole, even if there was a little bit of play in the up and down movement, which i sincerely doubt, the pressure of the honing stone/circular movement would grind it into a perfect circle. there is just too little play, engineered that way because the goal is to get a perfect circle, not to take peoples money and say job well done :P

  • @sovereign126 Interesting, thanks for the info!

  • this was impressive like 20 years ago...

  • Too bad actual piston bore location isn't established.

    It's just assumed that it is where it's supposed to be.

    Piston location should be verified and if necessary re-qualified by an accurate bore cut at the correct x y coordinates from the dowels.

    If your piston locations are incorrect on a V8 it could cost you 20-40 hp plus the balancing done to the rotating assembly is worthless if the pistons are not in their correct position.

    Please correct me if I am wrong.

  • @5150jafo I shouldn't worry too much about the bores being in the wrong places as the tooling in most car factories is absolutely superb and somewhat over-engineered. Main power loss on V8s (double overhead camshaft models excepted) is due to camshaft wear as the 16 tiny cams are just too small to cover high mileages. The very popular hydraulic tappets simply keep on adjusting themselves until the cam lobes are close to a perfect circle! 50,000 miles and the power down by 30% or more. Duh!

  • @techdavey1000....

    Location matters. Especially in high performance. It should be checked...period.

    As for "Main power loss on V8's"......roller cams do not wear down cam lobes.

    Ever heard of roller cams ?

    Nobody worth a damn uses the flat tappet cams you refer to anymore.

    Piston ring wear is the main loss of power.

    If you're just rebuilding the motor in your mom's station wagon though you can do it however you want : )

  • how much does an average 0.60 boring cost for a sbc(small block Chevy)

  • And which addresses do those peuple live/work at? Here in Norway we simply send the engine "out of country"!

  • do you have this series in metric units? i'd buy that if you did

  • Great Video, Great Information. I have wondered about this. Thanks.

  • Where is this machine shop?

  • Boring for some engines can go over .120 not just .060 over. So they do make pistons larger then .060 over.

  • @Boredout454 yes, you're correct. There are plenty of over sized pistons beyond the 0.060" range.

    However, the stock replacement ranges are limited to .010 .020 .030 .040 and .060 anything larger needs to come from a custom piston manufacture or custom order from one of the OEMs.

    We even talked to one of our OEM manufacture sponsors a while back and asked why there is no .050 over stock piston... they said "it's just that way".

    so much for a complete answer.

  • @BoxWrench Hmmm might be worth it for a company to start doing it.

  • @BoxWrench I've heard that many people think from over sized pistons they gain some horse power.

    In my opinion that's like dropping a stone into water. What do you think about that? It is measurable?

  • @TeeWeeQcKsteel By boring the cylinders, you slightly increase the volume both at top dead center and at bottom dead center. This results in a slightly higher compression ratio if the pistons are at the same height in th eblock. This could result in a very slight gain in horsepower and torque. Most people who claim a gain in horsepower are feeling the effects of a freshly rebuilt engine which will have a significant improvement in a worn out engine.

  • If you do Radial piston engines, do you have to do the same procedure in manufacturing such?

  • Isn't that a tape-controlled boring machine?

  • Nice video

  • thank you for showing us how the machine shops do it, good to know

  • If you cut the bore that means you wont be able to use the original factory pistons right? because the bore is now bigger?

    or is their like speacial piston rings that would be able to close the Gap? or would one need new bigger pistons?

  • @Sonicku yes, if you bore out the cylinder, you absolutely have to replace the pistons.

    There are no replacement piston rings that can 'take up the slack' of the bore. An average bore increase is at least 0.010" (ten thousandths of an inch). Although it sounds like a small increment, it's a large difference in the diameter of the cylinder bore and will require a new larger piston diameter to allow for proper sealing of the bore with, of course, new piston rings as well.

  • @Sonicku .10 over is just rings so stock piston size is used and new rings are in place over that size and new rings and pistons must be used.

  • i want to start a project building a V8 from scratch, I really dont have any mechanic experience or any thing. Is it possible for the average guy to try to do this in their garage, and if so does anybody know any good guides, and where to start on a project like this for a beginner?

  • @DevinWhiteman What do you mean by building ? If you are talking about assembling an engine out of parts, yeah that's doable though its gonna take a while with no experience.

    If you are talking about designing a new model in a garage with then no not a snowballs chance in hell., its almost impossible even as an experienced engineer.

  • @DevinWhiteman easiest thing to do if you want to experiment with building a V8 engine from scratch is to first get ahold of one. You could probably find a junk engine (get a full long-block with the heads included) pretty easily and then get it home and put it on an engine stand.

    After that you pull it apart and start the visual inspection.

    If you want to follow along from the disassembly, to the machining required to the pre-assembly and then final assembly and sealing... you can get our DVD

  • @DevinWhiteman do a google search for Pitstop Bookshop, they have a couple of really good engine rebuilding books and I believe one comes with a dvd.

  • this is what i do in my apprenticeship but in the marine industry, like 10 x the size as this engine..!

  • whats the material most commonly used for the engine blocks? and are they the same material as the pistons?

  • I had my 302 chevy 1969 z-28 done for $125 That included magnaflux. honing the cylinders, cutting the crank 60ths (crank and block) installing the cam bearings, and hot tank everything. And I paid for it all working for McDonalds. Shit but modern times suck.

  • Looks like a "boring" job!

  • @deaftodd

    Oooh my god, i cant beleive you just stole that from my mind. I was JUST about to type those exact words. and BAM!!

    theres you...

  • @motabikeboy I was going to make the same comment too! I changed my mind because I thought it might be too boring.

  • @winterka100

    Haha, double wammy mate!

  • @deaftodd Jesus Christ dude.

  • @deaftodd Looks like you're either stupid or young, who knows maybe both...

  • thats is the most beautifuless rebore machine my eyes have ever seen in my whole life!

  • @pavel4 Call a machine shop to get an actual quote, sometimes the do package deals if you're going to to a complete block overhaul with cleaning, boring, honing and bearing installation all in one.

    For just a bore of a V8 block the average is about $75-$125 US. You'd still have to get the hone done however, and that's another average of $100. If you do a package deal, you'll get a better deal. Of course, V6 or line 4 engines are going to be less expensive than an 8 cylinder block.

  • @BoxWrench

    not bad seeing how its can add another 10 years to the engine

  • what is exactly that for, give more HP ..???

    please respond...!!!

  • @NORMAN3016 Boring out the cylinder could be used to slightly increase horsepower, but as seen here, the procedure is being used to refurbish the cylinder block for an engine rebuild.

    The block is bored and then honed and new, slightly larger pistons are installed into the block. This way the engine block has a new life ahead of it after a complete rebuild with new piston rings and engine bearings.

  • can you show magnaflux testing

  • @wyckedtracker This is a quick sample from a DVD that is over 3 1/2 hours long...

    There is footage of the magnaflux process for crack checking on the full length DVD in the machine shop section.

  • very cool video

  • what a brilliant series of videos!

  • What is price range for this service for a 4.3lt v6? Is it needed if I am rebuilding it. Just rings bearing gaskets is all I am doing really besides port and polish the heads and intake.

  • @LittleMan00707 you can call any machine shop and ask them the pricing for a block rebuild for your specific engine type.

    You would be better off to have the block honed, and pistons cleaned and inspected if you're going to re-ring and install new bearings.

  • @BoxWrench I will do that. I just hope that I can spend less then $1,000 on it. I can buy a Cyclone engine for $1,200. Say I brought you my 4.3 lt v6. What price am I looking at to do all this?

  • @LittleMan00707 We're not a machine shop, we produce engine building videos and re-sell transmission rebuilding DVDs and other automotive videos.

    We used Edding's Engine Rebuilding in San Fernando California. If you live in So-Cal, you can contact them for a quote.

  • @LittleMan00707 I'd try John at Costa Mesa R&D. His vids are under the name fiatnuts( that's f i a t n u t s, not f l a t n u t s ;) )

  • @LittleMan00707 4.3 v6?.... let me guess its a vortec v6 from a chevy blazer huh

  • @1PARADOXXX If you count the cylinders visible in this video, you'll see mostly V8's shown here. If you see 4 cylinders on one side of a V8, there's gonna be a matching 4 on the other side to make a V8...

  • what is it called and where can i get my block to be done like this so i can rebuild it and make shure evrything is perfect?

  • @Demon1987 The entire procedure listed above is usually offered by a complete machine shop and is often referred to as a "block service" or "block overhaul" package. At many places it will include at least a cleaning, inspection, hone and possibly camshaft bearing installation and plug replacement. Other additional services that can be added to the block are de-burring, align hone, bore and hone (with or without deck plate), deck scim and other types of damage repair or welding if needed.

  • @BoxWrench so to do this i should take my hole block then? would they only do the block or heads too? or would it depend on the shop? is it worth it or too expensive?

  • @Demon1987 not only to you, but to everyone- this is not hard. if you are into cars, you probably know someone who has used a machinist. ask them who their machinist was and call them up for details on their services. or if you have no friends, go to the local drag strip and find a car thats running low times and is something close to your engine. walk up and ask them who their machinist is. GOOD machinists will do ANY perfect procedures, decking, honing, cleaning. or try the yellow pages.

  • @buckracer thanks alot for the info. like others im so tite on chash its not even funny but ill scoop up some info to figure out how much i should start saveing up... im defenetly planing on keeping my old truck for a very long time and i would be so happy knowing the engine is as perfect as it can be.

  • 0:35 looks like whats gunna happen tonite!

  • do you know if there are any shops like this in seattle washington i have a chevy 350 engine and i want the block and pistons to be done correctly everything else im doing on my own(a learning experience if you're asking)

  • Amazing! But isn't it cheaper to buy a new block?

  • an average price for a machine shop to refurbish a V8 cylinder block is from $300-$500 US. That will normally include a hot tank wash, boring, decking, honing and plug and cam bearing installation.

    The average replacement cost for purchasing a new or refurbished block is from $500-$750 US on the low end for a stock replacement. High performance is much higher.

    You can buy a used block, but then you'd also need to run it through the refurbishing process to begin a rebuilt engine build-up.

  • @BoxWrench

    i igree you

    ant its nice jop man

  • @BoxWrench

    extra $200 dont sound bad for a new one seeing how its gonna last for years if you break it in right.

  • do you need a new machinist? I LOVE that kind of work!

  • that looks like a massive block. is it a dragster engine?

  • There are two blocks shown in this clip... first one visible during the 'align hone' is a small-block Ford 351. The ones being decked and bored are Small-block Chevy 350's.

    There are much larger engine blocks made by both Ford and Chevy. The small-block piston diameters range around 3 inches and the big block engines go up to and beyond 4 inches in diameter for each piston.

    They probably do look pretty large though if you've only seen 4 cylinder engine blocks in the past...

  • seem like short blocks to me. so no. not dragster motors.

  • Sure, a dragster engine with two bolt main caps.

  • @Mazak1312 well i didn't necessarily mean a top fuel dragster engine

  • @Mazak1312 top fuel blocks really do have 2 bolt mains.

  • @matt12466 --With that much of an over-bore you would definitely need a correspondingly larger bore diameter gasket. Otherwise, the smaller bore gasket would protrude into the cylinder and possibly interfere with the piston travel or produce a hot spot causing detonation.

  • The comment that all alloy blocks have liners is incorrect,Porsche,Mercedes to name a few use alloy blocks with a high silicon carbide content, which only diamond honing can hone after the bores are acid etched to remove aluminium exposing the silicon carbide.This is used in aviation as well as far less friction than cast iron and the exposed silicon carbide alloy bores retain oil for long life.

  • @brizopolahko

    yes, you are correct... should have said "most" engines instead of "all" to include the rare exceptions.

    correction listed along-side original post below...

  • Nice to see actually what happens, unlike most of the time you hand over the goods to be machined and get it back to spec without seein the processes used.

    Good video

  • Comment removed

  • Boring without torque plate is absolutely unprofessional or maybe the guys just don't know about their existence and purpose.

  • Actually, boring with a torque plate is completely unnecessary when performing a stock engine rebuild.

    The clip shown here is from our 'Basic Engine Building' DVD. It shows the complete processes needed for a proper stock re-build. The use of a torque plate and the closer tolerances it achieves are only needed when boring a high performance block application.

    No adverse effects occur when boring a stock spec block without a torque plate... ask any reputable engine shop that does high volume

  • @BoxWrench

    What about rebuilding stock aluminium block?

  • @viper666666

    That would likely be a call for the machine shop to make.

    It would probably depend on the age and accuracy of the the boring machine itself. The one pictured in this video is an older "trustworthy" machine that does, V8's all day... other machines may be more accurate for aluminum blocks, or you could be right about a torque plate being needed regardless for an aluminum bore.

    Not a whole lot of stock aluminum blocks out there though. Most imports have steel cylinder sleeves

  • ...actually a quick clarification.

    All Aluminum blocks have steel cylinder sleeves.

    Aluminum is too soft of a metal.

    When the boring job is performed on an aluminum block, the steel sleeves are bored out out, or the block is split, and the sleeves are removed and replaced with smaller diameter if it's desired to return the sleeves to stock diameter.

  • @BoxWrench

    ...and a correction as pointed out by @brizopolahko...

    Not ALL aluminum blocks have steel sleeve inserts acting as cylinders. In some exotics, performance engines and other specialty engine designs, cylinder walls can be made of various alloys that require special casting/forging, tooling and finishing procedures.

    However, the vast majority of aluminum blocks in stock engine designs do stick with steel cylinder sleeves for ease of machining and cost efficiency.

  • If you go 40 over on a small block chevy 400 what would the cubic inch be? Does it change or stays the same?

  • @SLODWN you would get about a 406 cu in engine with a bore job only

  • is it possible to bore out the cylenders on a 6g72 sohc 3.0l v6?

  • All piston based engines are capable of being bored out as long as the maximum bore diameter has not been reached.

    After performing a bore on all cylinders in a block, the cylinders are honed to the exact diameter required by the new slightly oversized pistons.

  • I helped my shop teacher do something similiar, we clamped sand paper really tight to a table and put oil on there and then drug it across the sandpaper.

  • do you have some work for the russian emigrants?))

    your technical equipment is amazing...

  • hey boxwrench can you please explain to me why at 3:04 when your explaining the piston increments does it skip .050"?

  • I've asked a number of technicians over the years about why they skip the .050" increment in stock piston sizes...

    The only answer I ever get is that "it's just always been that way".

    I'm hoping for a better answer myself one of these days...

  • 1:35 mark.

    Jesus thats unsafe. watch your hands.

  • @Ibringthetruth1 wtf are you talking about... his hands werent even near it......

  • This is a great video thanks for posting.,,..hey,...is it safe to do this work wearing a bracelet?

  • The guy in this video is an experienced machinist and would probably tell you it's safe to wear a bracelet...

    Some purists would say you can't have long hair or any type of jewelry at all when performing any type of work. Others bend the rules... I suppose if you own the company or your boss doesn't mind, anything goes...

  • its dead on. why would i sell my secrets to people. i build winning engines and want to keep it that way

  • There aren't 'protected secrets' in our DVD titled "Basic Engine Building".

    That's the point of the video, getting a correct base foundation of knowledge out to people that would otherwise sit on the fence about attempting a rebuild.

    Fact is, if you have a machine shop or provide performance engine building services, we're helping you greatly by getting more people involved who would otherwise just junk their old classic and drive a Honda.

    Why limit your own customer base and market?

  • Who the hell is going to spend all that shit load a money on all these little tid bits its a car not a Lamborgini

    after 5 years 10 at the most its time for a new car not worth the money

    Engines last longer today anyway I have 128.000 miles on my 4 banger dosent burn any Oil  all the rest of the scrap is reused anyway its just cheaper to buy a new car or rebuilt or even a good used motor from a wreck

  • If you love your car and want to why not? I mean I wouldnt do it with a 4 banger rice burner but I would do it with say a classic car.

  • @whyximxhott dont diss the 4 bangers, i got a 3 banger lol, it hauls ass.

  • @billiesubs HAHAHAHAHA!!! I've got a 3 banger too haha. Mine hauls ass as well. LOL

  • @billiesubs no it doesn't, liar

  • Quebexicano.

    The reason people will spend the money for it is because QUALITY matters. Lambo or not, if im going to do an engine, its going to be perfict, not half assed. Just for my ford 302, I put easy 8 grand into it. It took me years for that money but it going to be a fantastic engine because of it.

    To be honest with you, 128,000 isnt much at all. I wish I had a rig with that many miles.

  • My jeep has 350,000 miles. My camery has 250,000. Going to a wrecking yard is a cheap way to go. But you cant honestly trust that engine you get from them. You dont know what that engines been through. Could end up costing you more money in the end going that way. And going and buying a new car? I wish that was cheaper to do. Buying a car is a lot of money at one time. Doing an engine is a bit at a time. Plus why would I buy a new car if the engine is for a classic car that can be worth more?

  • Its all about style buddy and the joy you get from bulding an engine & the first turn of the key. its not wasting money, I bet my old v8 is still increasing in value while your jappa goes down with ever mile you add.

  • @wayne007nz v8's arent all that great. Its all about power to weight, not all v8's will improve in value, shelby yes, an old buick, no.

  • Nothing is perfect stop saying perfect

  • your comment is perfect...

  • its better then this shit video that you put out

  • Please respond to this video with your 'way more awesome' video about machine shop procedures. We expect it to have multiple narrators, background music, a graphical title card intro and be part of a larger multi-hour instructional DVD with computer animations and expert instructions that you also sell direct to the public internationally.

    Otherwise, your comment about our videos being crap might be a bit off the mark...

  • Nice machining equipment, alot of money in tools

  • These people are professionals!!

    Well done!!

  • That Rottler boring machine is ancient...is it tape controlled?

  • Really great video. Shows basic machining and gives a viewer a good understanding of what's going on.

    Anyone else who wants to make videos about machining operations should take note that they didn't spend more than a few seconds on each step. i.e., they didn't waste time showing a machine doing the same operation for six minutes at a stretch.

    Thumbs up on this one.

  • HOLY SHAT!

  • that was great, thanks

  • damn! that's some great DVD! 5 of 5!

  • NICE

  • i need to research the price of decking..

  • Just call a local machine shop and see what they charge.

    Ask if they have package deals for a complete block job including; jet wash, decking, honing and cam bearing install (cylinder boring if you need it).

  • your machine are more big of my machine :O

  • "........approximate centre line"..........wtf?

    question: does anyone know wot wot friction, not only means, but can demonstrate it?

  • If you listen and watch closely, the dialog says "the machine needs to be set in the approximate centerline..." this is just to get the boring spindle in the ballpark of the first cylinder.

    The next line states that " this particular machine with then center itself in the bore..."

    You can even watch the spindle shift to the left as the machine does a perfect self alignment to the true centerline of the bore.

    It looks like an older machine, but it's a fully automated and highly accurate one.

  • This is THE most dangerous Block skimming machine i have ever seen!!! . . . . .  I love it! : D Living life on the edge no guards or nothing! Riding on the ragged edge every time you skim just wondering if today is the day that beast fly's to bits! lol X D

  • Yup, that machine is a bit creepy to be around, but it's been doing a fine job at skimming decks for over 40 years. Why retire such a classic and functional machine, it does one job, very well.

    It was a bit creepy shooting the scene though, notice the zoom work from the camera...I didn't want to be too close to the flying blades of fury : )

  • as long as the machine still makes a good surface on the final product, definitely cool to keep it. it looks old, but going strong ;)

  • can these people make 2JZ engines

  • Machine shops don't really "make" engines, but I know for a fact that the guys here at Edding's Engine Rebuilding can do the refurbishing machine work for any and all engines ever created...

  • buy a HAAS machine

  • They do have a CNC machine as well.

    It has nothing to do with the processes shown in this video though...

  • you cant lift the block from one of the caps, that would affect clearance

  • im surprised you didnt use a more modern cnc machine. like a standard cnc mill. i always thought that was how it worked. i guess that fly cutter works well for the boring.

  • There are thousands of machine shops across the country that use tried-and-true machines such as the ones used in these clips. The cost and functionality of modern CNC machines are just not suited to everyday automotive engine block boring.

    Sure, some of them are capable of doing the work, but their strengths are much more suited to custom machining detailed pieces as opposed to boring dozens of hardened steel cylinder walls in a day.

    However, this shop does have a CNC machine for other jobs.

  • kawasakikillerr: How was your face?

  • What surface smoothness can you achieve using your methods?

  • These are industry standard machines that produces industry standard "smoothness" for stock engine rebuild applications.

    There are performance finishes that can be achieved as well, but are not needed without the use of special sealing gaskets intended for higher compression performance applications.

  • How do you finish the cylinder head after machining to get it smooth (not the bores, but the face that is in contact with the gasket) ?

  • The 'Deck' surface of the heads are machined in a similar manner to the Block Deck. It's a different machine that is set up specifically for holding cylinder heads and machining them.

    Head Decking and all other relative machining processes are all shown in our 'Basic Engine Building' DVD.

    The Machine Shop section of the DVD is pretty cool, it shows all these machines that most people don't get to see in action behind the closed doors of the shop.

  • good one!!

  • hi mate do yon know who much that machine cost ... thnaks

  • This video has an Align Hone machine, a Deck Surfacing Machine and a Block Boring Machine, each of which could cost up to $100,000 US dollars or more new from a manufacturer. There are used ones available but it doesn't make sense to purchase any of them unless it's your line of business and you can earn back your investment...or you're incredibly wealthy

  • thank you .

  • watching this was very interesting and informative

  • core shift is when during the casting process the cores shift slightly out of place, usually easiest to see by the cam bearing having more "meat" on one side...i.e. "shifted"

  • hmm got into an argument with my freind about whether or not 1 thousandth of a centimeter would make i difference.... guess i was wrong lol

  • eccezionale veramente

  • enginemasterbuilder; You talking about no deck plate being used?

  • are u talking about "torque-plate honing" ??

  • TELL THEM ABOUT CORE SHIFT

  • thank you very much for your video. .it was great and a helpful tips for me .i already check all your videos about cars and engine. .keep it up

  • Very informative, thanks.

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