I feel sorry for all the kids whose parents are fools who unknowingly lie to them, deluding them for life as they may never see the world as we do. As the world IS.
No one is asking you to "believe" anything. Believing is what religion demands. When I finally realized god doesn't exist, it was liberating - no need to beg forgiveness, no need to fear hell, no need to desire heaven. Just live life , here and now. Now is what matters - not worrying about some nonexistent afterlife.
@enolam5000 Make an appearance to all of humanity at once, so that everybody could witness him, and it wasn't just a trick of one's imagination, or anything like that. That'd be the most direct route. Send down a book of scientific facts that nobody knew or even imagined that later turned out to be verifiable, and one not written in poetic language. Cure everyone with AIDS and cancer at once, and do it in some way that makes it absolutely clear it's him. Etc.
@enolam5000 This is the age of the internet. Information doesn't just go away if it's not told by word of mouth. An actual appearance by god would revolutionize everything. it would be the absolute biggest event in recorded history, and we'd have billions of independent documents to back it up. No one would question it, and if they did, he could just do it again.
And when did I ever say anything about love? Just knowing he exists wouldn't make me love him. Not in the slightest.
@enolam5000 if god appears I will need him to explain a few things (natural disasters, disease,arid regions ect) before I belived he loved us or loved him.
Actually appear in person on TV so the whole world could see. Funny, considering god supposedly wants everybody to know him, why does he hide? Why not make an appearance? Why is his will only known through bronze-age books, full of scientific inaccuracies? Why doesn't he just show up in person and tell us his will?
We all know the answer - it's because god doesn't exist. Gods were invented by primitive peoples trying to explain the world around them.
Good video but the poster at 3:00 is wrong. Some of those guys were deists. Atheists must get their facts straight since thats their beef with religious fanatics who confuse fact with rumors. Ben Franklin & Abe Lincoln both believed in God and professed faith in a creator but like Jefferson they loathed religion. Funny how Christians claim Abe was a Christian which annoys atheists & then atheists turn around & claim him too! Read Ben Franklin's epitaph about what'll happen to him after he dies!
Christians just shut the fuck up, your all so smiple minded. A priest says god says to give all your money to me. Well the priest said so, so it must be try. And you say your God is the only God. I'm pretty sure that's "Judging" another religion. If I'm not mistaken thats a sin! Your going to hell. If you don't believe in God your going to hell! Yet again judgement, also arent you stepping in God's Domain? Yeah haha if there's a heaven the Population is like '101' hahaha
we will see who is dumb in the end. I have experienced God in ways that you atheists cannot ever imagine because you will not accept the holy spirit and continually blaspheme against God's holy name.
God is rightous and just.
We don't live by strict rule, we live in freedom by the blood of Christ.
If you want eternal life, pray and seek God's face, he is gracious and he will answer.
I hope you will seek God for your sake, I can hate us but you have no reason. We are not stupid.Come to God.
When something similar happened to me I said! " Well, I cannot blame the Universe for it because it is senseless. Let's choose to be happy about it". Which I did choose.
I've got a question: What the hell are all the religious people doing here? This vid is called "Atheism Is Incredible". Are you so insecure about your faith that you click your way trough youtube only to leave comments on a vid that clearly belongs to people who don't give a shit about your god?!
Is that what you do on your free time? Thinking "ah it's great to be religious... now what? I guess I could visit youtube and watch some Atheist-vids..." hmm only a few letters left...
@mozcito939 I'm atheist too but you seem bit too disrespectful to religious people. I respect Christianity because it teaches people good morals and a good style of living, disregarding the religious parts. By being disrespectful you make atheists look bad and and get a bad connotation. while I'm here typing I want to ask everybody, why do you see atheist as bad people?
People should be able to have good morals without someone telling them how to live and act. Everyone should know how to run their own lives. Religion could very well be conjuncted with a kindergarten, but in stead of children it's for fully grown adults.
What's the piont of living if you can't find a reason for life without someone telling you what to belive?
Atheism Is Incredible LMAO wow you dont dont think a god exists THAT IS INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!! you know what else is incedible a person making their own decisions are someone deciding what they are going to eat for lunch ..... INCREDIBLE........ fuckin douch
I believe in the big bang theory, evolution, AND God. How about you keep this to yourself, as religion is more of a more personal issue and people have the right to believe what they want to. A video like this isn't going to result in anybody's change of faith.
That wasn't my goal, to change anyone's faith. I presented no argument here. You have the full right to believe in god. I am not going to try and pass any law to stop you from believing. However, just because you have the right to believe doesn't mean you are exempt from criticism for your beliefs, or that I don't have the right to question them. I find religion laughable, and just because you accept common scientific principles doesn't make your beliefs about god logical in the slightest.
There doesn't have to be logic present in someone's belief or opinion as they can believe what they want to. Maybe I find atheism laughable. And yes I'm fully aware of my rights to believe what I want. I just believe in a higher power I'm not like a religious fanatic or anything like that.
If you claim that something is true, you SHOULD be able to back that up with a logical and reasonable argument. Otherwise, you won't be taken seriously by anyone. If that doesn't matter to you, that's your prerogative, but don't go around claiming that something is true. If I said I believed that a fairy lives on Venus and you say "why" and I say I don't need a reason, you'll tell me that I shouldn't say that's true then.
Well I can back it up by the universe I think it must have started some how. I think God triggered the big bang and that there is a higher power watching over this vast universe. Also the fairy thing was pretty a pretty funny example, and I admire your dedication.
Well, to be as frank as possible, what you think doesn't matter. If I said that same fairy caused the big bang, you would, again, ask me why I think this, and I would say because that's what I believe. Again, we have come to that same point. There is no evidence that my fairy created the big bang, or that your god did. As of now, we do not know what caused the big bang, and guessing that god did it does not prove god did it.
There is no evidence of that. All the gospels were written a minimum of a generation after his death, and they all have conflicting accounts of what happened, who he appeared to, how long he stayed, etc. It's all fiction, or metaphorical at the most.
"Major transitions in evolution - such as the origin of life, the emergence of eukaryotic cells, and the origin of the human capacity for language, to name but a few - could not be farther from an equilibrium. Also, they cannot be described satisfactorily by established models of microevolution.
Also,looks like you believe in the Big Bang.Yet how could the universe come from nothing?to have the bang,there must be substance to bang.Otherwise it will be empty
Nature and the universe have far too much design to it for me to think it just have happened on accident. Besides, I don't see why there couldn't be a God.
No one is saying that is just happened by accident, at least, not the present universe. The design in nature is perfectly explained by evolutionary theory, which mimics design using natural selection.
The design of nature is explained by natural forces, like electromagnetism. For example, look at a snow flake. It is beautiful and intricate, but not "designed". It comes about through natural processes. Same with just about everything else in the universe.
"Every step in evolution, from a darkening of a moth's pigment to the development of the opposable thumb, is caused by a change in molecules. But biologists have rarely traced adaptive changes to their molecular roots in genes and Organic compounds made of amino acids arranged in a linear chain, joined together by peptide bonds between the carboxyl and amino groups of the adjacent amino acid residues.proteins."
Dr. Elizabeth Pennisi
stop hanging on to a dead theory,it don't work kid
Hahaha, funny. First of all, the second part was unnecessary, fore I know all about proteins. However, that that that means is that it is difficult to pinpoint exactly what change in DNA base sequence causes what change in which polypeptides, with different phenotypic expression. No one argues that. It speaks nothing about the validity of evolutionary theory. Also, James Shapiro is generally not agreed with in academia, so he is useless to prove any point.
you know what. I have tried to talk to many atheists like you and have found that it is a complete waste of time. I bid you good night. God bless and I hope you find the real truth before it's too late. Afterall, I got nothing to lose, but you atheists got everything to lose. And you will discover how true eternity is-in side or outside of time.
Alright, whatever. You can take your pascal's wager with you, because I won't be needing it. Also, just know that you are completely scientifically wrong when it comes to evolutionary theory.
indeed you got nothing to lose, you already lost it :(, and indeed, we atheïsts still got it, and we CAN lose it...,but for you the more important question...can you get it back? does any1 know the missing word?
We know the truth, and so do you. From your name, i can see that you work for the other side. There is no points of us discussing further unless you want to switch sides.
btw, you are going to your god after death, and all of you will face destruction. Our God and saviour, Lord Jesus is going to give us life.
So choose, life or death. If you continue working for your god, you will face death.
Asshole, listen, god is not loveable and mercifull is he condams his own creatures to hell. So they can be in pain and agony forever.... I find that disturbing. Your god is the number one cause in earth. The number one cause in children dieing. Why you ask because according to your preaching he has the option of saving them but CHOOSES not to!! his is Satan himself. Watching people die..
Modern molecular biology tells us that modern humans arose less than 100,000 years ago (confirmed by three independent techniques), Sophisticated works of art first appear in the fossil record about 40,000-50,000 years ago.Such a recent origin date for modern humans precludes any possibility of any previous hominids being our ancestors, since Homo erectus died out 300,000 years ago, and Homo neandertalensis has been proven to be too genetically different from us to have been our ancestor
No, it is strongly debated when Homo sapient arose, but generally considered between 200,000-100,000 years ago. The earliest cave painting date back only 32,000 years. Also, most anthropogenesists don't view H. erectus as our most recent ancestor, bot are looking more towards H. rhodesiensis as an in between of H. erectus and H. sapient. H. rhodesiensis lived between 300,000 and 125,000 years ago.
LOL Atheists are the ones who say thing sjust can't happen, that's what Theists think, that God happened from nothing and created everything from nothing. We say there must be a LOGICAL reason for all of this.
Sorry christians, atheist fools... The universe is the only worth thing being called god. (And the European symbols of it; Odin, Thor, Freyja, Heimdallr...)
You underestimate me, big mistake! VERY big mistake! I am 54 years old, and just remember that the greatest manhood is that of the man who knows how to keep the heart of a child.
No, not just trolling. And certainly not something I can explain on this pathetic Internet tool. I was about to publicly debunk and discredit Richard Dawkins. You don't want to know how. Who gives a doodoo what you think anyway?
I agree, changing from an christian to an atheist made me feel like so much more alive then I ever was. Everything started to make sense, I even started doing better in school. lol.
What would you say if some qualified DNA topological description comes to be related to a hyperlinked hierarchy of discontinuities within a quantum gravitational framework? How far from the target Richard Dawkins, for instance, would be then? Scientifically... Philosophically... Spiritually...
Have anyone here ever thought that the particular idea that man DESCEND from apes is a delusion?! I mean, the same illusion that made us believe that the Sun turned around the Earth for a long, long time! The general concept that species descend from one another might be this kind of twisting parallax...
Within an Universe where 'God is Spirit' the 'Laws of Nature' might be given by some staggering unifying principle so much that the most intelligent creationist will forever oppose the brightest darwinist till both dive into the unfathomable Nirvana.
Jesus declares that "God Is Spirit" (And call Him "Abba" indicating spiritual communion). Dr. Bruce Lipton affirms that "Mind is a system of beliefs." ( and makes a genuine effort to show that Spirit is more fundamental than Matter). Those two human statements are in no way mutually incompatible. Freud discovers the unconscious mind and states that "the natural conclusion of the monotheism is the atheism". If monotheism is the idolatry of just one god then I am a fully atheist.
there is no speed faster then light infinite is not a relative thing its jus a theory of our primitive knowlage so stop trying to act intelegent by saying radiation shows the universe is expanding thats do to the red shift on the color spectrum.
You really do not understand how to write properly so that others can understand what you are talking about, now do you? Cosmic background radiation is an observation predicted perfectly by the big bang theory. And yes, matter cannot move faster than light. However, the fabric of space time is not made of matter, and is therefore not effected by the special theory of relativity and can move faster than light. I'm not too sure if that addresses what you brought up, but still.
The "Big Bang" theory is based on Edwin Hubble's observation about the planets. According to him, the farther the planets are, the faster they distance themselves from one another. That would mean that if the Earth is at a fictional end of the universe, and Planet X is at the other end, Planet X would be distancing itself from Earth at a superlight speed. In reality, what Hubble saw through his telescope was merely an optical illusion. It is a big blunder and now nobody goes back.
Wow, your ignorance on the big bang is astounding. Look up red shift and cosmic background radiation, then talk. Hubble saw this in the 1920's. It has been checked and triple checked countless times. And where are your calculations? Superlight speed? What the hell? And how did talking about god go to talking about the big bang? Red Hering much?
I do not want to offens your religious beliefs. But our brain recognize three dimensions, a limited number of colors, sounds, smells, sensations. you can not be sure that there is nothing there.
Again, athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby. And yes, we cannot be sure there is nothing more, and I am not saying I know there is nothing more. What I am saying that there is no evidence to believe in any supernatural dieties. We believe things based on evidence, and if there is no evidence for something, we should not believe it. That is the whole point.
Atheists believe one thing: That there is not enough evidence to believe in a god. That is it. Nothing more.
I accept the big bang cosmological model, but I don't do it as an atheist, I do it as someone who can observe the evidence for it and reach the conclusion that it is correct. Also, Hubble's Law does state that the farther away planets are, the faster they move, but they do not even come close to light speed. The universe will die a heat death before they even come close!
If the universe is infinite, and lasts for billions of years should be planets that have reached that speed. Hubble's Law
is based on for example on CMBR but the Law of CMBR is according to specialists "the Big Bang theory of the universe to be the best explanation for the CMBR" That mean we have a circle.
why an atheistic rejects god easily but when it comes to his laws do not accept new arguments?
Atheists reject god because there is no good evidence to believe in him.
I accept the big bang because it is the best explanation of the cosmic microwave background radiation and the expanding universe. Also, things would not move at light speed, but can move away from each other at speeds faster than that of light, but they themselves aren't moving at light speed. Hubble's Law is reletive to where the observer is and where the observed body is.
See, for the big bang, yes, two bodies will move at faster than light speed away from each other, that is true. However, they are not objectively moving at faster than light speed. If you factor in general reletivity, they are moving at those speeds reletive to each other, but when compared to another galazy that is much closer, they are moving at reletively much slower speeds.
Also, that all has to be factored in with the expansion of the universe. I am not a theoretical physacist, but it took me two minutes to calculate that the hubble law would violate the special theory of relativity. Obviously scientists have also figured this out, and don't just use plain calculations, but factor in other things, i.e. relativity and universal expansion.
I think the law can be proved wrong calculating the distance between planets and reporting that to the age of the universe.
However when it comes to science you're can not be sure but faith is not based on science but other concepts, therefore those who fight faith with science are ridiculous.
you can fight science with argument and faith with philosophy not otherwise.
For the law, that is not the way you do it. The planets themselves aren't moving, but the fabric of space time is. astroDOTuclaDOTedu/~wright/cosmology_faqDOThtml#FTL
Faith is this: Belief without evidence. You cannot fight faith because no matter how much evidence and argument you present, it doesn't matter, because as long as someone doesn't give a shit about evidence, they can keep their faith. However, faith doesn't prove anything. If I have faith in unicorns, unicorns still don't exist!
off unicorns are genuine, they are the Indo-European people who wore on horse wit javelin and Centaur are people on horse. they were seen by people who not knew what the horse is. :)
AND EVEN MORE RESEARCH (!!!!) has revealed to me that it isn't actually the galaxies moving, but rather the fabric of space time is stretching, and since the special theory of relativity only applies to matter and energy, not spacetime, it doesn't matter at what speed they are moving at. Thanks for making me do so much research to discover all of this. It was rather interesting.
sweet....i wish more people were smart, but then again it just goes to show how special we atheist, agnostics, infidels, etc.. are (WHO CARES!!!), what ever you wanna call it....we see the truth (through the fair tales) i hope i offend those who are religious, because you people offend me....
Still find it hard to believe that a senior could build a ship and have time to travel the planet! (before this flood) to collect 2 of every species.....HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA i hurt myself laughing at all the stupidity that exists on this planet! Bush, Harper, the Pope, retardedly rich people who are every more greedy....not to mention priests that molest children! WTF is that! shouldn't they burn at the stake of something?
And by brainwashed, i mean that people can be convinced that we go somewhere when we die... the only way to prove that would be to reserect the dead so you can interview them...and thats deceased for years...not seconds....ooo the light (in the ceiling). Grow up. If you had been told about your religion crap when you were 18 instead of 8 then you would have laughed at it all...i was baptised, went to church....
Blah Blah Blah...that is all that comes out of peoples mouths when they talk about religion. If God(s) were real then why are there many versions? and all think they are right. Bull Sh*t!!! HAHA... do you believe in Santa? or the boogie man? Think about it for just a second.... its all about control. People are diluted, brainwashed, masses of particles that can be convinced of invisible things that live in the clouds....HAHAHAHAHA i cant help but laugh when i here people talk about the bible
Thats right. I just shake my head when people say 'thank God for this and that". they never say that when some catastrophy happens . Where is their God then ????
"And, if the universe was finetuned for life, why is there no other life?"
Because the universe has not been fine tuned for life in every part of it, just in general. It takes the entire universe and an unimaginable balance of constants for life on earth. In short, we need the rest of the universe, for life on earth, that is how fine-tuned it is! Everything is there, so that we can be here. Take anyone of the constants and change them by a minute fraction and we're gone.
Wait, what is your source? I have read nothing that says if a black hole appears in the Anndromeda galaxy than we would die. Maybe the laws of the universe are "fine tuned" (I have my own hypothesis for that though) but not the individual parts of the universe like comets and stars.
My source is an Astrophysicist Dr Rodney Holder, quote "you need the universe as old as it is and as vast as it is, to have life anywhere"
"Maybe the laws of the universe are "fine tuned""
The fact that you say maybe, shows that you haven't done your research. It's not denied by anyone (who properly knows about it), as the information about the fine-tuning has come directly from science.
I have given you examples such as the force of the BB, are you saying that was mere chance?
"Therefore, because there are natural reasons for the universe"
Pick your words. There are not natural reasons for the universe, there is one theory with no evidence to support it.
"Occam's Razor cuts out the supernatural one"
That would be the wrong circumstance to use Occam's razor. The only thing multiple universe would help do, is explain why we are so lucky to of got a universe the allows life. (Many tries reduce the need for chance) It's an attempt to explain away fine-tuning.
No, these don't include fine-tuning, but rather quantom tunneling from another universe, and a hypothesis that universe appear in nonspace (outside our universe), and die out instantly because the conditions were wrong. And it doesn't violate the law of conservation of energy because there is zero net energy (there is positive and negative, like in our universe, but that doesn't violate LoCoE). Yes, these are all hypothesese, but they are just as likely, if not more likely, than a god.
When the logical conclusion of the evidence is that a conscious being created the universe in a precise way that will allow life, there is nothing silly about believing the it was God, far from it, it would be silly not to think it was God.
By all means choose to adopt the theory that there are an infinite amount of other universes to explain away the fine-tuning, but as stated before, it's in stark conflict with Occum's razor.
I don't go against the odds and say that it was an accident.
I would say a magical creature that happens to exist out of nothing and no where defies even more logic. However, we will obviously not agree on this, so I suggest we agree to disagree. Happy New Year!
God always existed, therefore coming out of nothing.
But that is besied the point. I will not change your mind and you will not change mine. I propose naturalistic answers, and require emperical evidence, you have your logic and faith. I suggest we agree to disagree.
"However, for a supernatural reason to be used, all natural reasons have to fail"
That depends on how you define supernatural, I define it as that which is beyond the natural world. It could still be some sort of naturalistic process, but I still define it as supernatural, as it is not natural.
"phycisits have devised natural reasons for the universe"
They have string theory, which has failed to produce even one testable predication. Until it does, we can't rely on it.
So I can still hold to my argument as you have not shown me any reason why not to. That the universe was created by a supernatural, eternal, vastly powerful, conscious being, in a way that would allow life, against all the odds.
The universe did not have to be created, as nothing forced the cause to create, it therefore freely choose to create. And free-will is only consistent with a conscious being.
And it not only choose to create, but did so in just the right way to allow life.
Again, we have no evidence that there was ever nothing before our universe. We have no evidence that there was something. However, for a supernatural reason to be used, all natural reasons have to fail. However, phycisits have devised natural reasons for the universe that do not violate the conservation of energy law. Therefore, because there are natural reasons for the universe, Occam's Razor cuts out the supernatural one. And, if the universe was finetuned for life, why is there no other life?
"we have no evidence that there was ever nothing before our universe"
That's not what I am saying. Something had to exist before our universe, but it wasn't anything within our universe and there is plenty of evidence to support that.
"We have no evidence that there was something"
Are you trying to say that the universe just popped into existence out of nothing? For no reason? That is a VERY illogical claim. From nothing, nothing comes. Imagine nothing, what's happening? That's right, nothing
Because He choose not to break the laws that He had set in place. So the more appropriate question is, why would He break the laws He set in place to speed things up? When you consider that there is no need to speed things up.
What this all boils down to, is the question of chance or design.
I say that using the "multiple tries" excuse, is just an attempt to explain away the obvious.
We would never say that time and chance assembled anything remotely complex we made, so why the universe?
The chances of a life sustaining universe occurring are so utterly tiny, that it clearly shows that the universe was designed, it was built with the intention for having life. Saying this assembled itself, is like saying the Oxford Dictionary formed from an explosion in a printing press. This is no accident my friend, something made this.
One: You think it was a choice. Natural processes aren't choices. They OCCUR. Apples don't choose to fall from trees, they do. Electrons don't choose to be attracted to protons, they are. The universe didn't choose to be created, it was. See?
Two: YOu believe the sole purpose of this universe is to have life. That is ridiculous. We are the only plaet we know of with life. If the universe's purpose was to ave life, it would be a bit different. Also, again, anthropic....
principle: if things were different, they would be different. If the universe had blown up, then we wouldn't be here talking about it. Richard Dawkins discusses theories for a "naturally selecting" universe in The God Delusion that I found interesting, but in the end, there may have been a billion universes before ours, and this one got it right for some insignificant specs of organic dust to evolve into intelligent beings. That doesn't show design, that's trial and error.
Also, if you think this universe was SPECIFICALLY created for life (which is, again, a nonsensical notion, very egotistical), then how come it took 4.5 BILLION years for intelligent life to evolve on our insignificant cornor of the galaxy? Why could't god have just "made it"? Why did he have meteors hurtle at us for about a billion years? Why did he keep the dinosaurs alive for a few million years, thereby suspending mammel evolution? The entire notion is ludicrous.
Simple, because God did created a world that is governed by certain laws. When He created that world, he allowed things to take place according to those laws and had absolutely no reason to break them and to "just create" it's not like He had to wait as He is a timeless being, for Him, everything happened at the same time, the past and the future, all at once as He is outside of time, much like looking at a timeline. So why did God wait? He didn't. Why didn't God just create?
"If the universe had blown up, then we wouldn't be here talking about it"
That is like standing in front of a firing squad, of 1000 fully trained marksmen, hearing the call "ready! AIM! FIRE!"
Then to your utter astonishment finding that EVERY single one missed! Are we then supposed to say "well you shouldn't be surprised, because if you were dead you wouldn't be here to observe that you are alive"
"there may have been a billion universes before ours"
There is no evidence to support that theory and...
As Paul Davies puts it "Invoking an infinite number of other universes just to explain the apparent contrivances of the one we see is pretty drastic, and in stark conflict with Occam's razor" (do not multiply causes beyond necessity)
and as Edwin Harrison puts it "Take you choice: blind chance that requires multiple universes, or design that requires only one"
"One: You think it was a choice. Natural processes aren't choices"
You clearly don't understand my reasoning yet, as I make
You failed to distinguish between the natural world and "the cause of the natural world" i.e. what created the universe. The natural world (where nothing that is not a conscious being can choose anything) And the supernatural cause.
To say that the cause did not freely choose to create, is to say that something forced it to create, or that a previous change simply resulted in the creation of the universe. And this is the main point you need to understand...
Change occurs because of previous change
(the domino effect)
There were no previous changes before the BB, as change can't occur without time, the BB was the first change, therefore it was not dictated by a "previous change" therefore nothing forced the change
"Two: YOu believe the sole purpose of this universe is to have life. That is ridiculous"
Every part of the universe is needed for our existence on earth (I have read this first hand from a Astrophysicist) Although you clearly don't understand just how finely balanced the allowance of life on earth is, that doesn't mean it's not so. The vast amount of 'stuff' needed for life on earth is testimony to the extent of the required fine-tuning.
One example is the amount of force created in the BB, if that force had been one less or more the only ONE part in a thousand million million, then the universe would of either re-collapsed into a giant fireball, or continued spreading out at a rate too fast for planets to form, either way, we wouldn't be here.
This can be compared to having a snooker table a thousand million million centimeters long, then hitting the ball and getting it to settle on a 1cm X right at the end of the table.
Imagine it to be like a snooker table, which is a thousand, million, million centimeters long, hitting the ball and managing to get it to stop on a 1 cm X right at the end of this massive table. That's how precise the explosion needed to be for life to occur (which it was)
Other examples of this fine-tuning are found all over the place in various cosmological constants. I have shown you just one, add them all together & it shows what might as well be taken as a mathematical impossibility
One example of fine tuning is the amount of force 1 second after the BB, which was calculated by Cambridge professor Stephen Hawking, which states that if the force was any more or less then 1 part in a thousands million million, then the universe would of either collapsed into a giant fireball or continued to spread out too fast for stars to form. Either way, the chance of life was one in one thousands million, million.
It doesn't matter how the intelligence exists, or how it managed to freely choose to create. All that matters is whether it is an intelligence or not. And as we have established the cause didn't have to create, but freely choose to create, shows that it has freewill. which is only consistent with a conscious being, making the cause a conscious being (an intelligence) Other details are interesting, but the most important, is that the cause is God.
What the intelligence is held in though, that's an interesting question, one I hadn't asked myself. It is obviously non-physical, but apart from that, I really couldn't answer the question of "what" God's mind is made of. That is a complete mystery to me. Interesting question though.
Also: total comprehension of "how" this intelligence exists, and "how" it managed to choose to create, are interesting questions, yet are steps behind the main arguments in an attempt to ignore them.
"how can it do anything outside of time? See, it's internally flawed"
Space and time are the same thing, space-time. Space has not existed forever, nor has time, but something existed before (and hence outside of) time, we have to say that. Or we are forced to say nothing existed before and the universe was created by nothing.
But you didn't answer how SOMETHING CAN CHOOSE TO DO ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF TIME! Or can have an intelligence outside of space for that matter. Where would it hold its intelligece? No brain, nothing?
I am not saying something created nothing. I am saying a currently unknown force created something. Call it god if you want to, but that is misleading. It is like calling gravity Zeus.
That is a bad, bad analogy, and you know it (or should)
For the first cause, from the which is uncaused, we can say that the will for creation and creation itself were simultaneous, it would indeed be impossible to think something through and come to a decision without time, but God wouldn't need to think it through, He would just know. So as soon as He will's it to happen, it happens.
The will for the creation of time and the time to allow the will, happen at the same time.
I've got no problem with you doing that, but i am going to believe what the evidence is in favor of.
And if you are going to claim "we don't know therefore we shouldn't believe" despite the fact the most logical option is God. Then you have to reject belief against the existence of God (Atheism)
As in the face of these solid arguments, you are playing the agnostic card of "we can't say for sure" You must also reject atheism, otherwise you are being inconsistence, contradictory and illogical
Again, not asking for 100% proof, just reasonable, consistant proof. Your arguement is based on wild speculations about pre-Plank time events, and is internally flawed and derived from a god of the gaps/arguement from ignorance. You cannot imagine any other way the universe could have begun, so you say god did it. That is not science, not even good logic because you say god did it, yet show no proof for god's existance other than a feat that could have been caused by forces we don't know of.
i have shown you the most logical interpretation of the evidence. You have chosen not to try and deny it, which I actually admire you for, as some people clutch at illogical straws by this point.
You may call the arguments speculative, but based on the evidence we have, they are logical and sound. Therefore based on the evidence we have, the most logical interpretation has been demonstrated.
So to get out of this, you have chosen to ignore that the arguments favor God and ask for 100% proof
evidence in favor of God, while you have provided no evidence that the cause was not God. So the evidence is favor of God, it's not proof, I freely admit that. But I hold to the principle that we are to decide what is the truth, by seeing which belief has more evidence to support it. You disregard the fact that I have proven to you logically that the evidence is in favor of God and demand proof before belief. I will believe because there is enough evidence, I am not stubborn enough to need proof
Look, you have not provided proof for god. You make the error in assuming that there was nothing other than god before the Big Bang, when in reality we don't know what was before it. It is needless speculation. We can just say we don't know, and wait for an answer. Until they combine Quanotom Physics and General Relativity, we will have no clue what came before the big bang. You are using the God of the Gaps fallacy and an arguement from ignorance. That is not proof of anything, other than...
the fact that we don't know everything about our universe. For all we know, there was a different universe with different physics before ours, and it got crushed in a big crunch. Or maybe we are in a multiverse. Or maybe the laws of physics are local for us. Point is, we don't know everything, and it is pointless in speculating what happened before the BB because we don't have enough information.
It is true that we don't know for sure and we can never know 100%, but that definitely does not mean that we should disregard all evidence, unless we can prove it 100%
Again, the question is, what is the evidence in favor of?
And as I have shown, it is more in favor of God then against. And as far as alternatives are concerned (multiverse, big crunch, etc) If you do your research you will see that those are not the most commonly held theories. The ones I proposed are.
I have provided logical proof, as you have not (nor has anyone else) provided an alternative rather then God. In other words, no one can tell me what can freely choose, that is not a conscious being. Therefore God is the only logical option.
And how exactly am I a God of the gaps argument, when I am using scientifically derived evidence to support the argument? I use the evidence, not gaps in the evidence, to support my claim.
No, look, does an apple choose to fall from the tree? No, it is a force called graviy. Similar forces probably caused the Big Bang, but we don't know.
Your arguement is not scientifically derived, it is reliaing on the gap in our knowledge of the big bang and our ignorance on the subject.
You have proven nothing at all because your arguement is flawed. I am not asking for 100%, just an arguement not based on ignorance and as heavily flawed. Ad scientists do not believe god created the ...
universe, they freely admit that they don't know and keep trying to find out. The evidence is against a creator god, because it is the ultimate Boeing 747. How could something intelligent and all powerful possibly exist without being created or evolving? You dont know, so you say it is outside of time, yet how can it do anything outside of time? See, it's internally flawed. Your arguement holds little water and proves nothing other than wishful thinking combined with an arguement from ignorance.
"How could something intelligent and all powerful possibly exist without being created or evolving?"
How could something be created or evolve outside of time? As explained before (i think with you) When time doesn't exist, nothing changes, nothing begins, nothing ends, it either exists or it doesn't.
"You dont know" I do know, I just told you, it's you that doesn't know.
Exactly my point, nothing natural, that is not a conscious being, can freely choose anything. Only conscious beings can freely choose anything, the cause of the universe freely choose to create the universe, therefore the cause of the universe is a conscious being.
And my argument is only partially speculative, in that it uses logic to determine what existed prior to the BB using evidence after the BB. Examining an effect to determine the cause.
And yet you assume it was a chosen decision, when it could have been a neutural one based on unknown forces or a combination of gravity and the 3 nuclear forces.
And if nothing changes without time, no decisions can be made. Again, inconsistant logic an double standerds.
That's irrelevant and most likely untrue. 1) Whether it was a decision made with great desire or neutral desire doesn't affect whether it was a decision or not, it was still a decision, so it doesn't affect the argument. 2) The fact that it choose to create the universe just this way out of the vast array of possible universes, shows purpose and will, not a neutral will, but a very specific one, one that wants to see life.
Have a look at the fine-tuning statistics and you will see what I mean.
I have shown you that philosophically and logically speaking, God is the most and only option. I have provided you with scientific evidence to support this. You have not provided me with any contradictions to my premisses to show how the logic is flawed, therefore my argument still stands. You can demean the logic as much as you want by calling it armchair logic, despite the fact that most of the evidence has come about by experimentation not armchair logic. But even if it had, it is still...
I feel sorry for all the kids whose parents are fools who unknowingly lie to them, deluding them for life as they may never see the world as we do. As the world IS.
xgusROX 7 months ago
I am an atheist. Life's great, when you don't believe in garbage. My children won't believe either. They won't be lied to.
lexhus 8 months ago
@lexhus lol my mom got pissed when I told her I converted to Atheism.
cookiemonster9052 6 months ago
If a religious person says to me prove that god is not real and i simply reply where is your proof.
All they have is a 2000 year old book that spouts nonsense we have scientific evidence.
GillsFan91 1 year ago
Atheism is Incredible??? I don't believe it!
mudnyoureyes 1 year ago
@mudnyoureyes
No one is asking you to "believe" anything. Believing is what religion demands. When I finally realized god doesn't exist, it was liberating - no need to beg forgiveness, no need to fear hell, no need to desire heaven. Just live life , here and now. Now is what matters - not worrying about some nonexistent afterlife.
LoopQuantumGravity1 7 months ago
I would like to pose this question:
What would God have to do, to convince everybody (not just you) that He exists?
I'm curious.
Its not a trick question
enolam5000 1 year ago
@enolam5000 Make an appearance to all of humanity at once, so that everybody could witness him, and it wasn't just a trick of one's imagination, or anything like that. That'd be the most direct route. Send down a book of scientific facts that nobody knew or even imagined that later turned out to be verifiable, and one not written in poetic language. Cure everyone with AIDS and cancer at once, and do it in some way that makes it absolutely clear it's him. Etc.
atlant80 1 year ago 2
@atlant80
How many generations would it take for some people to start questioning it?
Like your kids kids kids kids?
Kids can be little rebels, as you may know.
If parents didn't tell their children about it, how long would it last?
Why doesn't God just make all of us love him?.....Because it would not be true love.
enolam5000 1 year ago
@enolam5000 This is the age of the internet. Information doesn't just go away if it's not told by word of mouth. An actual appearance by god would revolutionize everything. it would be the absolute biggest event in recorded history, and we'd have billions of independent documents to back it up. No one would question it, and if they did, he could just do it again.
And when did I ever say anything about love? Just knowing he exists wouldn't make me love him. Not in the slightest.
atlant80 1 year ago 2
@enolam5000 if god appears I will need him to explain a few things (natural disasters, disease,arid regions ect) before I belived he loved us or loved him.
lonewolfM16 6 months ago
@enolam5000 umm..how about show itself?
codern 9 months ago
@enolam5000
Actually appear in person on TV so the whole world could see. Funny, considering god supposedly wants everybody to know him, why does he hide? Why not make an appearance? Why is his will only known through bronze-age books, full of scientific inaccuracies? Why doesn't he just show up in person and tell us his will?
We all know the answer - it's because god doesn't exist. Gods were invented by primitive peoples trying to explain the world around them.
LoopQuantumGravity1 7 months ago
Good video but the poster at 3:00 is wrong. Some of those guys were deists. Atheists must get their facts straight since thats their beef with religious fanatics who confuse fact with rumors. Ben Franklin & Abe Lincoln both believed in God and professed faith in a creator but like Jefferson they loathed religion. Funny how Christians claim Abe was a Christian which annoys atheists & then atheists turn around & claim him too! Read Ben Franklin's epitaph about what'll happen to him after he dies!
Vegas01973 1 year ago
2:51 - GENIUS!!!!!!
FireflyOnCrack 1 year ago
when i turned 18, it was the most liberating experience there was. I could smoke cigarettes and had no curfew. I bet you can't wait for it
ElusiveHermit 1 year ago
@dustman9009 You're just fucken crazy, shut the hell up. There's no such thing as a god or devil.
marHAVIK 1 year ago
Christians just shut the fuck up, your all so smiple minded. A priest says god says to give all your money to me. Well the priest said so, so it must be try. And you say your God is the only God. I'm pretty sure that's "Judging" another religion. If I'm not mistaken thats a sin! Your going to hell. If you don't believe in God your going to hell! Yet again judgement, also arent you stepping in God's Domain? Yeah haha if there's a heaven the Population is like '101' hahaha
WhiteFireTheBand 1 year ago
abraham lincoln was an atheist? cool.
Airfresh0 1 year ago
lol, that's kinda funny. even tho i still think its a little disturbing (it's the ex-christian coming outta me haha), i think u make a good point.
Airfresh0 1 year ago
we will see who is dumb in the end. I have experienced God in ways that you atheists cannot ever imagine because you will not accept the holy spirit and continually blaspheme against God's holy name.
God is rightous and just.
We don't live by strict rule, we live in freedom by the blood of Christ.
If you want eternal life, pray and seek God's face, he is gracious and he will answer.
I hope you will seek God for your sake, I can hate us but you have no reason. We are not stupid.Come to God.
silverwolfalpha 1 year ago
When something similar happened to me I said! " Well, I cannot blame the Universe for it because it is senseless. Let's choose to be happy about it". Which I did choose.
48acar19 2 years ago
varulv: Obviously yes, I am now a proud gay guy
Danemark is a non homophobic country. Are you danish ?
48acar19 2 years ago
@48acar19 Good for you mate. Be proud of who you are and what your orientation is. Dont let anyone put you down. More power to you!
Jakmehauf 1 year ago
When I used to be, at 17, a devout Christian I was so desperate for being gay that I have tried to kill myself!
I fought like a lion to get rid of the belief system imprinted in me by my parents and in about 10 years I was successful!
Little by little I became a much happier human being!
When a catastrophe happens to a believer, he or she is saying: "O, god, what did I do to deserve this shit?"
48acar19 2 years ago
So you're homosexual? Just of curiosity=)
varulv234 2 years ago
lol Cyanide and Happiness... nice
a601lbcatfish 2 years ago
Go atheism!
And this song is really catchy too! My favorite line is:
"the pious desperation of the holy man is driving me crazy...yeah, they're either good at lying or perhaps they're intellectually lazy"
How true!!
collegestudent4peace 2 years ago
Great vid!
I've got a question: What the hell are all the religious people doing here? This vid is called "Atheism Is Incredible". Are you so insecure about your faith that you click your way trough youtube only to leave comments on a vid that clearly belongs to people who don't give a shit about your god?!
Is that what you do on your free time? Thinking "ah it's great to be religious... now what? I guess I could visit youtube and watch some Atheist-vids..." hmm only a few letters left...
mozcito939 2 years ago 10
@mozcito939
AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!
Darkenedbyshadows 2 years ago
@mozcito939 I'm atheist too but you seem bit too disrespectful to religious people. I respect Christianity because it teaches people good morals and a good style of living, disregarding the religious parts. By being disrespectful you make atheists look bad and and get a bad connotation. while I'm here typing I want to ask everybody, why do you see atheist as bad people?
marHAVIK 1 year ago
@marHAVIK
People should be able to have good morals without someone telling them how to live and act. Everyone should know how to run their own lives. Religion could very well be conjuncted with a kindergarten, but in stead of children it's for fully grown adults.
What's the piont of living if you can't find a reason for life without someone telling you what to belive?
mozcito939 1 year ago
Nice vid..lol but I have to disagree with the fact that reality is awesome. lol for the most part it sucks lol. which is why there is religion
SirFukme 2 years ago
Atheism Is Incredible LMAO wow you dont dont think a god exists THAT IS INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!! you know what else is incedible a person making their own decisions are someone deciding what they are going to eat for lunch ..... INCREDIBLE........ fuckin douch
CapChronic 2 years ago
CapChronic,
Incredibly, some of us manage to do just fine without a Bronze Age Sky-Daddy. Who'd have thought?
Metalcultistmike 2 years ago
sorry i dont put penisis in my mouth...... can you explain that in straight terms
CapChronic 2 years ago
Sorry, I don't believe in dumbing down my responses to 6th-grade level. You'll have to talk to your elementary school teacher.
Metalcultistmike 2 years ago
Cool story bro..... THUMBS UP!
CapChronic 2 years ago
I believe in the big bang theory, evolution, AND God. How about you keep this to yourself, as religion is more of a more personal issue and people have the right to believe what they want to. A video like this isn't going to result in anybody's change of faith.
crumpledpaper409 2 years ago
That wasn't my goal, to change anyone's faith. I presented no argument here. You have the full right to believe in god. I am not going to try and pass any law to stop you from believing. However, just because you have the right to believe doesn't mean you are exempt from criticism for your beliefs, or that I don't have the right to question them. I find religion laughable, and just because you accept common scientific principles doesn't make your beliefs about god logical in the slightest.
atlant80 2 years ago
There doesn't have to be logic present in someone's belief or opinion as they can believe what they want to. Maybe I find atheism laughable. And yes I'm fully aware of my rights to believe what I want. I just believe in a higher power I'm not like a religious fanatic or anything like that.
crumpledpaper409 2 years ago
If you claim that something is true, you SHOULD be able to back that up with a logical and reasonable argument. Otherwise, you won't be taken seriously by anyone. If that doesn't matter to you, that's your prerogative, but don't go around claiming that something is true. If I said I believed that a fairy lives on Venus and you say "why" and I say I don't need a reason, you'll tell me that I shouldn't say that's true then.
atlant80 2 years ago
Well I can back it up by the universe I think it must have started some how. I think God triggered the big bang and that there is a higher power watching over this vast universe. Also the fairy thing was pretty a pretty funny example, and I admire your dedication.
crumpledpaper409 2 years ago
Well, to be as frank as possible, what you think doesn't matter. If I said that same fairy caused the big bang, you would, again, ask me why I think this, and I would say because that's what I believe. Again, we have come to that same point. There is no evidence that my fairy created the big bang, or that your god did. As of now, we do not know what caused the big bang, and guessing that god did it does not prove god did it.
atlant80 2 years ago
A higher being did it. It could be a fairy it could be a spider monkey. whatever it was- that is god thats what i believe
crumpledpaper409 2 years ago
Yes, but what evidence do you have to support that claim?
atlant80 2 years ago
Jesus. the man worked miracles. came back from the dead.
crumpledpaper409 2 years ago
There is no evidence of that. All the gospels were written a minimum of a generation after his death, and they all have conflicting accounts of what happened, who he appeared to, how long he stayed, etc. It's all fiction, or metaphorical at the most.
atlant80 2 years ago
And also, if Jesus did come to earth, wouldn't you think he'd do some things better than turn water into an alcoholic beverage? watch?v=zOfjkl-3SNE
Watch that if you want a humor-filled depiction of what a savior SHOULD have done.
atlant80 2 years ago
haha Einstein was a deist. Also-
"Major transitions in evolution - such as the origin of life, the emergence of eukaryotic cells, and the origin of the human capacity for language, to name but a few - could not be farther from an equilibrium. Also, they cannot be described satisfactorily by established models of microevolution.
Also,looks like you believe in the Big Bang.Yet how could the universe come from nothing?to have the bang,there must be substance to bang.Otherwise it will be empty
silverwolfalpha 2 years ago
Eh.
Nature and the universe have far too much design to it for me to think it just have happened on accident. Besides, I don't see why there couldn't be a God.
Soniwizard 2 years ago
No one is saying that is just happened by accident, at least, not the present universe. The design in nature is perfectly explained by evolutionary theory, which mimics design using natural selection.
The design of nature is explained by natural forces, like electromagnetism. For example, look at a snow flake. It is beautiful and intricate, but not "designed". It comes about through natural processes. Same with just about everything else in the universe.
atlant80 2 years ago
study science more.
The results of molecular genetics have frequently been difficult to explain by conventional evolutionary theory"Dr. J.A. Shapiro
silverwolfalpha 2 years ago
"Every step in evolution, from a darkening of a moth's pigment to the development of the opposable thumb, is caused by a change in molecules. But biologists have rarely traced adaptive changes to their molecular roots in genes and Organic compounds made of amino acids arranged in a linear chain, joined together by peptide bonds between the carboxyl and amino groups of the adjacent amino acid residues.proteins."
Dr. Elizabeth Pennisi
stop hanging on to a dead theory,it don't work kid
silverwolfalpha 2 years ago
Hahaha, funny. First of all, the second part was unnecessary, fore I know all about proteins. However, that that that means is that it is difficult to pinpoint exactly what change in DNA base sequence causes what change in which polypeptides, with different phenotypic expression. No one argues that. It speaks nothing about the validity of evolutionary theory. Also, James Shapiro is generally not agreed with in academia, so he is useless to prove any point.
atlant80 2 years ago
you know what. I have tried to talk to many atheists like you and have found that it is a complete waste of time. I bid you good night. God bless and I hope you find the real truth before it's too late. Afterall, I got nothing to lose, but you atheists got everything to lose. And you will discover how true eternity is-in side or outside of time.
silverwolfalpha 2 years ago
Alright, whatever. You can take your pascal's wager with you, because I won't be needing it. Also, just know that you are completely scientifically wrong when it comes to evolutionary theory.
atlant80 2 years ago
indeed you got nothing to lose, you already lost it :(, and indeed, we atheïsts still got it, and we CAN lose it...,but for you the more important question...can you get it back? does any1 know the missing word?
beelzebubbleboy 2 years ago
We know the truth, and so do you. From your name, i can see that you work for the other side. There is no points of us discussing further unless you want to switch sides.
btw, you are going to your god after death, and all of you will face destruction. Our God and saviour, Lord Jesus is going to give us life.
So choose, life or death. If you continue working for your god, you will face death.
silverwolfalpha 2 years ago
I'll meet you in hell then if there is god
WhiteFireTheBand 2 years ago 4
@WhiteFireTheBand
I will bring along some Russian vodka so we can dine together bud!
Darkenedbyshadows 2 years ago
@WhiteFireTheBand
Hell is going to be a wonderful place if all the atheists are there, I almost cant wait
DidYouPortrayIt 2 years ago
@silverwolfalpha
Asshole, listen, god is not loveable and mercifull is he condams his own creatures to hell. So they can be in pain and agony forever.... I find that disturbing. Your god is the number one cause in earth. The number one cause in children dieing. Why you ask because according to your preaching he has the option of saving them but CHOOSES not to!! his is Satan himself. Watching people die..
Darkenedbyshadows 2 years ago
Modern molecular biology tells us that modern humans arose less than 100,000 years ago (confirmed by three independent techniques), Sophisticated works of art first appear in the fossil record about 40,000-50,000 years ago.Such a recent origin date for modern humans precludes any possibility of any previous hominids being our ancestors, since Homo erectus died out 300,000 years ago, and Homo neandertalensis has been proven to be too genetically different from us to have been our ancestor
silverwolfalpha 2 years ago
No, it is strongly debated when Homo sapient arose, but generally considered between 200,000-100,000 years ago. The earliest cave painting date back only 32,000 years. Also, most anthropogenesists don't view H. erectus as our most recent ancestor, bot are looking more towards H. rhodesiensis as an in between of H. erectus and H. sapient. H. rhodesiensis lived between 300,000 and 125,000 years ago.
atlant80 2 years ago
LOL Atheists are the ones who say thing sjust can't happen, that's what Theists think, that God happened from nothing and created everything from nothing. We say there must be a LOGICAL reason for all of this.
TheAtheistAussie 2 years ago
Video's not bad - music is terrible.
NYbeerdude 2 years ago
Sorry christians, atheist fools... The universe is the only worth thing being called god. (And the European symbols of it; Odin, Thor, Freyja, Heimdallr...)
mustaine14 2 years ago
You underestimate me, big mistake! VERY big mistake! I am 54 years old, and just remember that the greatest manhood is that of the man who knows how to keep the heart of a child.
Now go suck Richard Dawkin's dick.
twombonu 2 years ago
i lold
your a douche
PulseOfTheMaggots25 2 years ago
You have no idea how easy Atheism is to debunk! Just wait.....
twombonu 2 years ago
What should I be waiting for? Do you have an argument for the existence of a deity, or are you just trolling?
atlant80 2 years ago
No, not just trolling. And certainly not something I can explain on this pathetic Internet tool. I was about to publicly debunk and discredit Richard Dawkins. You don't want to know how. Who gives a doodoo what you think anyway?
twombonu 2 years ago
Nice empty threats. Really intimidating. What are you, 5 years old? Doodoo? Really?
atlant80 2 years ago
Atheism opens a whole new world of possibilities :)
hitman7112 2 years ago
Atheist does kick major ass. My third favorite band for about a year now. It's a shame Kelly Shaefer looks like Axl Rose now though...
ProgThrasher6666 2 years ago
rofl you guys only just figured out the idea of a god is bullshit lol..
sambrown18 2 years ago
what a nice vido BTW i know this band they are on myspace
wafiakul 2 years ago
I agree, changing from an christian to an atheist made me feel like so much more alive then I ever was. Everything started to make sense, I even started doing better in school. lol.
TheBlazingWolf 2 years ago 13
omg i ment to put a thumbs up lol
zune129 2 years ago
@TheBlazingWolf omg me 2!
skinnyjeansAndlynx 1 year ago
"For me, when I stopped believing in God, the world made so much more sense." Amen Brother!
Kailoa36 2 years ago 2
The picture about the egyptian pyramid at the end is simply beautiful.
gagnashdiak 2 years ago
anvil is better
outlawcountryman 2 years ago
Check out the band ''Atheist'' they're a Death Metal band with touches of Jazz....
varulv234 2 years ago
They rock.
ProgThrasher6666 2 years ago
They sure do=)
varulv234 2 years ago
Taking the "God is Spirit" axiom then between Reason and Faith I must say with Brecht: "Where no mystery is allowed, truth is not possible either."
mrqsilveira 2 years ago
How could we compare or relate a quantum fluctuation (Universe) of the most fundamental state (Nirvana) and a mathematical singularity?
That I would indeed like to know!!
mrqsilveira 2 years ago
What would you say if some qualified DNA topological description comes to be related to a hyperlinked hierarchy of discontinuities within a quantum gravitational framework? How far from the target Richard Dawkins, for instance, would be then? Scientifically... Philosophically... Spiritually...
mrqsilveira 2 years ago
Have anyone here ever thought that the particular idea that man DESCEND from apes is a delusion?! I mean, the same illusion that made us believe that the Sun turned around the Earth for a long, long time! The general concept that species descend from one another might be this kind of twisting parallax...
mrqsilveira 2 years ago
Within an Universe where 'God is Spirit' the 'Laws of Nature' might be given by some staggering unifying principle so much that the most intelligent creationist will forever oppose the brightest darwinist till both dive into the unfathomable Nirvana.
mrqsilveira 2 years ago
Comment removed
mrqsilveira 2 years ago
Jesus declares that "God Is Spirit" (And call Him "Abba" indicating spiritual communion). Dr. Bruce Lipton affirms that "Mind is a system of beliefs." ( and makes a genuine effort to show that Spirit is more fundamental than Matter). Those two human statements are in no way mutually incompatible. Freud discovers the unconscious mind and states that "the natural conclusion of the monotheism is the atheism". If monotheism is the idolatry of just one god then I am a fully atheist.
mrqsilveira 2 years ago
there is no speed faster then light infinite is not a relative thing its jus a theory of our primitive knowlage so stop trying to act intelegent by saying radiation shows the universe is expanding thats do to the red shift on the color spectrum.
robando360 2 years ago
You really do not understand how to write properly so that others can understand what you are talking about, now do you? Cosmic background radiation is an observation predicted perfectly by the big bang theory. And yes, matter cannot move faster than light. However, the fabric of space time is not made of matter, and is therefore not effected by the special theory of relativity and can move faster than light. I'm not too sure if that addresses what you brought up, but still.
atlant80 2 years ago
1.reason
The "Big Bang" theory is based on Edwin Hubble's observation about the planets. According to him, the farther the planets are, the faster they distance themselves from one another. That would mean that if the Earth is at a fictional end of the universe, and Planet X is at the other end, Planet X would be distancing itself from Earth at a superlight speed. In reality, what Hubble saw through his telescope was merely an optical illusion. It is a big blunder and now nobody goes back.
VyckRo 2 years ago
Wow, your ignorance on the big bang is astounding. Look up red shift and cosmic background radiation, then talk. Hubble saw this in the 1920's. It has been checked and triple checked countless times. And where are your calculations? Superlight speed? What the hell? And how did talking about god go to talking about the big bang? Red Hering much?
atlant80 2 years ago
Atheism is a strange religion!
VyckRo 2 years ago
Sarcastic? Atheism is a religion the same way that bald is a hair color. lulz
atlant80 2 years ago
I do not want to offens your religious beliefs. But our brain recognize three dimensions, a limited number of colors, sounds, smells, sensations. you can not be sure that there is nothing there.
But if you "believe"...there is nothing there..
VyckRo 2 years ago
Again, athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby. And yes, we cannot be sure there is nothing more, and I am not saying I know there is nothing more. What I am saying that there is no evidence to believe in any supernatural dieties. We believe things based on evidence, and if there is no evidence for something, we should not believe it. That is the whole point.
atlant80 2 years ago
But you "believe" in Big-Bang " theory for example and are reasons to believe that is incorrect.
VyckRo 2 years ago
Atheism believe in Big-Bang theory No? but the theory has errors.
I will make a movie about it in a day ( yap Doppler effect) but I must restore many calculations before that.
VyckRo 2 years ago
Atheists believe one thing: That there is not enough evidence to believe in a god. That is it. Nothing more.
I accept the big bang cosmological model, but I don't do it as an atheist, I do it as someone who can observe the evidence for it and reach the conclusion that it is correct. Also, Hubble's Law does state that the farther away planets are, the faster they move, but they do not even come close to light speed. The universe will die a heat death before they even come close!
atlant80 2 years ago
If the universe is infinite, and lasts for billions of years should be planets that have reached that speed. Hubble's Law
is based on for example on CMBR but the Law of CMBR is according to specialists "the Big Bang theory of the universe to be the best explanation for the CMBR" That mean we have a circle.
why an atheistic rejects god easily but when it comes to his laws do not accept new arguments?
VyckRo 2 years ago
Atheists reject god because there is no good evidence to believe in him.
I accept the big bang because it is the best explanation of the cosmic microwave background radiation and the expanding universe. Also, things would not move at light speed, but can move away from each other at speeds faster than that of light, but they themselves aren't moving at light speed. Hubble's Law is reletive to where the observer is and where the observed body is.
atlant80 2 years ago
See, for the big bang, yes, two bodies will move at faster than light speed away from each other, that is true. However, they are not objectively moving at faster than light speed. If you factor in general reletivity, they are moving at those speeds reletive to each other, but when compared to another galazy that is much closer, they are moving at reletively much slower speeds.
atlant80 2 years ago
Also, that all has to be factored in with the expansion of the universe. I am not a theoretical physacist, but it took me two minutes to calculate that the hubble law would violate the special theory of relativity. Obviously scientists have also figured this out, and don't just use plain calculations, but factor in other things, i.e. relativity and universal expansion.
atlant80 2 years ago
I think the law can be proved wrong calculating the distance between planets and reporting that to the age of the universe.
However when it comes to science you're can not be sure but faith is not based on science but other concepts, therefore those who fight faith with science are ridiculous.
you can fight science with argument and faith with philosophy not otherwise.
VyckRo 2 years ago
For the law, that is not the way you do it. The planets themselves aren't moving, but the fabric of space time is. astroDOTuclaDOTedu/~wright/cosmology_faqDOThtml#FTL
Faith is this: Belief without evidence. You cannot fight faith because no matter how much evidence and argument you present, it doesn't matter, because as long as someone doesn't give a shit about evidence, they can keep their faith. However, faith doesn't prove anything. If I have faith in unicorns, unicorns still don't exist!
atlant80 2 years ago
off unicorns are genuine, they are the Indo-European people who wore on horse wit javelin and Centaur are people on horse. they were seen by people who not knew what the horse is. :)
bye!
VyckRo 2 years ago
that is the point,to believe without any self doubt whatsoever
pesquios 2 years ago
AND EVEN MORE RESEARCH (!!!!) has revealed to me that it isn't actually the galaxies moving, but rather the fabric of space time is stretching, and since the special theory of relativity only applies to matter and energy, not spacetime, it doesn't matter at what speed they are moving at. Thanks for making me do so much research to discover all of this. It was rather interesting.
atlant80 2 years ago
yap "but rather the fabric of space time is stretching" another theory is that another theory, close to that which I want to show.
the earth is expanding to
no big-bang but expanding slow,
I send you a movie about it bye! I got to go :)
VyckRo 2 years ago
sweet....i wish more people were smart, but then again it just goes to show how special we atheist, agnostics, infidels, etc.. are (WHO CARES!!!), what ever you wanna call it....we see the truth (through the fair tales) i hope i offend those who are religious, because you people offend me....
sumwherits420 3 years ago
Atheism is REALITY ,LIFE. Open your eyes and there it is. Nothing supernatural.
Hektor7788 3 years ago
Why do christins always have to f**k everything? Is that not immoral?
kaxitaksi 3 years ago
oh yeah thats right, God will forgive their sins.......F*ck you all!
sumwherits420 3 years ago
Still find it hard to believe that a senior could build a ship and have time to travel the planet! (before this flood) to collect 2 of every species.....HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA i hurt myself laughing at all the stupidity that exists on this planet! Bush, Harper, the Pope, retardedly rich people who are every more greedy....not to mention priests that molest children! WTF is that! shouldn't they burn at the stake of something?
sumwherits420 3 years ago
And by brainwashed, i mean that people can be convinced that we go somewhere when we die... the only way to prove that would be to reserect the dead so you can interview them...and thats deceased for years...not seconds....ooo the light (in the ceiling). Grow up. If you had been told about your religion crap when you were 18 instead of 8 then you would have laughed at it all...i was baptised, went to church....
sumwherits420 3 years ago
Blah Blah Blah...that is all that comes out of peoples mouths when they talk about religion. If God(s) were real then why are there many versions? and all think they are right. Bull Sh*t!!! HAHA... do you believe in Santa? or the boogie man? Think about it for just a second.... its all about control. People are diluted, brainwashed, masses of particles that can be convinced of invisible things that live in the clouds....HAHAHAHAHA i cant help but laugh when i here people talk about the bible
sumwherits420 3 years ago
Thats right. I just shake my head when people say 'thank God for this and that". they never say that when some catastrophy happens . Where is their God then ????
Hektor7788 3 years ago
"And, if the universe was finetuned for life, why is there no other life?"
Because the universe has not been fine tuned for life in every part of it, just in general. It takes the entire universe and an unimaginable balance of constants for life on earth. In short, we need the rest of the universe, for life on earth, that is how fine-tuned it is! Everything is there, so that we can be here. Take anyone of the constants and change them by a minute fraction and we're gone.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
Wait, what is your source? I have read nothing that says if a black hole appears in the Anndromeda galaxy than we would die. Maybe the laws of the universe are "fine tuned" (I have my own hypothesis for that though) but not the individual parts of the universe like comets and stars.
atlant80 3 years ago
My source is an Astrophysicist Dr Rodney Holder, quote "you need the universe as old as it is and as vast as it is, to have life anywhere"
"Maybe the laws of the universe are "fine tuned""
The fact that you say maybe, shows that you haven't done your research. It's not denied by anyone (who properly knows about it), as the information about the fine-tuning has come directly from science.
I have given you examples such as the force of the BB, are you saying that was mere chance?
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
"Therefore, because there are natural reasons for the universe"
Pick your words. There are not natural reasons for the universe, there is one theory with no evidence to support it.
"Occam's Razor cuts out the supernatural one"
That would be the wrong circumstance to use Occam's razor. The only thing multiple universe would help do, is explain why we are so lucky to of got a universe the allows life. (Many tries reduce the need for chance) It's an attempt to explain away fine-tuning.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
No, these don't include fine-tuning, but rather quantom tunneling from another universe, and a hypothesis that universe appear in nonspace (outside our universe), and die out instantly because the conditions were wrong. And it doesn't violate the law of conservation of energy because there is zero net energy (there is positive and negative, like in our universe, but that doesn't violate LoCoE). Yes, these are all hypothesese, but they are just as likely, if not more likely, than a god.
atlant80 3 years ago
When the logical conclusion of the evidence is that a conscious being created the universe in a precise way that will allow life, there is nothing silly about believing the it was God, far from it, it would be silly not to think it was God.
By all means choose to adopt the theory that there are an infinite amount of other universes to explain away the fine-tuning, but as stated before, it's in stark conflict with Occum's razor.
I don't go against the odds and say that it was an accident.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
I would say a magical creature that happens to exist out of nothing and no where defies even more logic. However, we will obviously not agree on this, so I suggest we agree to disagree. Happy New Year!
atlant80 3 years ago
It's not a magical creature and I would ask you not to be so patronizing! You have been good so far, so don't ruin it now.
And you clearly still don't understand, as I never said God came out of nothing. I have already address what caused God with you, have I not?
And yes :P Happy New Year! :o)
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
Magic: To defy nature
Creature: Anything nonhuman.
God always existed, therefore coming out of nothing.
But that is besied the point. I will not change your mind and you will not change mine. I propose naturalistic answers, and require emperical evidence, you have your logic and faith. I suggest we agree to disagree.
atlant80 3 years ago
"However, for a supernatural reason to be used, all natural reasons have to fail"
That depends on how you define supernatural, I define it as that which is beyond the natural world. It could still be some sort of naturalistic process, but I still define it as supernatural, as it is not natural.
"phycisits have devised natural reasons for the universe"
They have string theory, which has failed to produce even one testable predication. Until it does, we can't rely on it.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
So I can still hold to my argument as you have not shown me any reason why not to. That the universe was created by a supernatural, eternal, vastly powerful, conscious being, in a way that would allow life, against all the odds.
The universe did not have to be created, as nothing forced the cause to create, it therefore freely choose to create. And free-will is only consistent with a conscious being.
And it not only choose to create, but did so in just the right way to allow life.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
Again, we have no evidence that there was ever nothing before our universe. We have no evidence that there was something. However, for a supernatural reason to be used, all natural reasons have to fail. However, phycisits have devised natural reasons for the universe that do not violate the conservation of energy law. Therefore, because there are natural reasons for the universe, Occam's Razor cuts out the supernatural one. And, if the universe was finetuned for life, why is there no other life?
atlant80 3 years ago
"we have no evidence that there was ever nothing before our universe"
That's not what I am saying. Something had to exist before our universe, but it wasn't anything within our universe and there is plenty of evidence to support that.
"We have no evidence that there was something"
Are you trying to say that the universe just popped into existence out of nothing? For no reason? That is a VERY illogical claim. From nothing, nothing comes. Imagine nothing, what's happening? That's right, nothing
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
Because He choose not to break the laws that He had set in place. So the more appropriate question is, why would He break the laws He set in place to speed things up? When you consider that there is no need to speed things up.
What this all boils down to, is the question of chance or design.
I say that using the "multiple tries" excuse, is just an attempt to explain away the obvious.
We would never say that time and chance assembled anything remotely complex we made, so why the universe?
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
The chances of a life sustaining universe occurring are so utterly tiny, that it clearly shows that the universe was designed, it was built with the intention for having life. Saying this assembled itself, is like saying the Oxford Dictionary formed from an explosion in a printing press. This is no accident my friend, something made this.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
Two major mistakes.
One: You think it was a choice. Natural processes aren't choices. They OCCUR. Apples don't choose to fall from trees, they do. Electrons don't choose to be attracted to protons, they are. The universe didn't choose to be created, it was. See?
Two: YOu believe the sole purpose of this universe is to have life. That is ridiculous. We are the only plaet we know of with life. If the universe's purpose was to ave life, it would be a bit different. Also, again, anthropic....
atlant80 3 years ago
principle: if things were different, they would be different. If the universe had blown up, then we wouldn't be here talking about it. Richard Dawkins discusses theories for a "naturally selecting" universe in The God Delusion that I found interesting, but in the end, there may have been a billion universes before ours, and this one got it right for some insignificant specs of organic dust to evolve into intelligent beings. That doesn't show design, that's trial and error.
atlant80 3 years ago
Also, if you think this universe was SPECIFICALLY created for life (which is, again, a nonsensical notion, very egotistical), then how come it took 4.5 BILLION years for intelligent life to evolve on our insignificant cornor of the galaxy? Why could't god have just "made it"? Why did he have meteors hurtle at us for about a billion years? Why did he keep the dinosaurs alive for a few million years, thereby suspending mammel evolution? The entire notion is ludicrous.
atlant80 3 years ago
Simple, because God did created a world that is governed by certain laws. When He created that world, he allowed things to take place according to those laws and had absolutely no reason to break them and to "just create" it's not like He had to wait as He is a timeless being, for Him, everything happened at the same time, the past and the future, all at once as He is outside of time, much like looking at a timeline. So why did God wait? He didn't. Why didn't God just create?
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
"If the universe had blown up, then we wouldn't be here talking about it"
That is like standing in front of a firing squad, of 1000 fully trained marksmen, hearing the call "ready! AIM! FIRE!"
Then to your utter astonishment finding that EVERY single one missed! Are we then supposed to say "well you shouldn't be surprised, because if you were dead you wouldn't be here to observe that you are alive"
We should still be surprised we are alive!
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
"there may have been a billion universes before ours"
There is no evidence to support that theory and...
As Paul Davies puts it "Invoking an infinite number of other universes just to explain the apparent contrivances of the one we see is pretty drastic, and in stark conflict with Occam's razor" (do not multiply causes beyond necessity)
and as Edwin Harrison puts it "Take you choice: blind chance that requires multiple universes, or design that requires only one"
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
"One: You think it was a choice. Natural processes aren't choices"
You clearly don't understand my reasoning yet, as I make
You failed to distinguish between the natural world and "the cause of the natural world" i.e. what created the universe. The natural world (where nothing that is not a conscious being can choose anything) And the supernatural cause.
My argument is...
1) Nothing natural can choose anything
2) The cause of the universe choose
3) Therefore the cause is not natural
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
And another...
1) When nothing is changing, nothing has to change
2) Nothing was changing prior to the BB (and time itself)
3) Therefore nothing had to change
1) When nothing has to change, but something does change, that change was freely chosen
2) Nothing had to change prior to the BB, yet something did change (the universe was created
3) Therefore the change was freely chosen
In short:
What you don't have to do, you choose to do.
The cause didn't have to create, therefore it choose to.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
To say that the cause did not freely choose to create, is to say that something forced it to create, or that a previous change simply resulted in the creation of the universe. And this is the main point you need to understand...
Change occurs because of previous change
(the domino effect)
There were no previous changes before the BB, as change can't occur without time, the BB was the first change, therefore it was not dictated by a "previous change" therefore nothing forced the change
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
"Two: YOu believe the sole purpose of this universe is to have life. That is ridiculous"
Every part of the universe is needed for our existence on earth (I have read this first hand from a Astrophysicist) Although you clearly don't understand just how finely balanced the allowance of life on earth is, that doesn't mean it's not so. The vast amount of 'stuff' needed for life on earth is testimony to the extent of the required fine-tuning.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
One example is the amount of force created in the BB, if that force had been one less or more the only ONE part in a thousand million million, then the universe would of either re-collapsed into a giant fireball, or continued spreading out at a rate too fast for planets to form, either way, we wouldn't be here.
This can be compared to having a snooker table a thousand million million centimeters long, then hitting the ball and getting it to settle on a 1cm X right at the end of the table.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
Imagine it to be like a snooker table, which is a thousand, million, million centimeters long, hitting the ball and managing to get it to stop on a 1 cm X right at the end of this massive table. That's how precise the explosion needed to be for life to occur (which it was)
Other examples of this fine-tuning are found all over the place in various cosmological constants. I have shown you just one, add them all together & it shows what might as well be taken as a mathematical impossibility
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
One example of fine tuning is the amount of force 1 second after the BB, which was calculated by Cambridge professor Stephen Hawking, which states that if the force was any more or less then 1 part in a thousands million million, then the universe would of either collapsed into a giant fireball or continued to spread out too fast for stars to form. Either way, the chance of life was one in one thousands million, million.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
It doesn't matter how the intelligence exists, or how it managed to freely choose to create. All that matters is whether it is an intelligence or not. And as we have established the cause didn't have to create, but freely choose to create, shows that it has freewill. which is only consistent with a conscious being, making the cause a conscious being (an intelligence) Other details are interesting, but the most important, is that the cause is God.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
What the intelligence is held in though, that's an interesting question, one I hadn't asked myself. It is obviously non-physical, but apart from that, I really couldn't answer the question of "what" God's mind is made of. That is a complete mystery to me. Interesting question though.
Also: total comprehension of "how" this intelligence exists, and "how" it managed to choose to create, are interesting questions, yet are steps behind the main arguments in an attempt to ignore them.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
"how can it do anything outside of time? See, it's internally flawed"
Space and time are the same thing, space-time. Space has not existed forever, nor has time, but something existed before (and hence outside of) time, we have to say that. Or we are forced to say nothing existed before and the universe was created by nothing.
The only thing flawed here is your understanding.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
But you didn't answer how SOMETHING CAN CHOOSE TO DO ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF TIME! Or can have an intelligence outside of space for that matter. Where would it hold its intelligece? No brain, nothing?
I am not saying something created nothing. I am saying a currently unknown force created something. Call it god if you want to, but that is misleading. It is like calling gravity Zeus.
atlant80 3 years ago
That is a bad, bad analogy, and you know it (or should)
For the first cause, from the which is uncaused, we can say that the will for creation and creation itself were simultaneous, it would indeed be impossible to think something through and come to a decision without time, but God wouldn't need to think it through, He would just know. So as soon as He will's it to happen, it happens.
The will for the creation of time and the time to allow the will, happen at the same time.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
I've got no problem with you doing that, but i am going to believe what the evidence is in favor of.
And if you are going to claim "we don't know therefore we shouldn't believe" despite the fact the most logical option is God. Then you have to reject belief against the existence of God (Atheism)
As in the face of these solid arguments, you are playing the agnostic card of "we can't say for sure" You must also reject atheism, otherwise you are being inconsistence, contradictory and illogical
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
Again, not asking for 100% proof, just reasonable, consistant proof. Your arguement is based on wild speculations about pre-Plank time events, and is internally flawed and derived from a god of the gaps/arguement from ignorance. You cannot imagine any other way the universe could have begun, so you say god did it. That is not science, not even good logic because you say god did it, yet show no proof for god's existance other than a feat that could have been caused by forces we don't know of.
atlant80 3 years ago
i have shown you the most logical interpretation of the evidence. You have chosen not to try and deny it, which I actually admire you for, as some people clutch at illogical straws by this point.
You may call the arguments speculative, but based on the evidence we have, they are logical and sound. Therefore based on the evidence we have, the most logical interpretation has been demonstrated.
So to get out of this, you have chosen to ignore that the arguments favor God and ask for 100% proof
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
evidence in favor of God, while you have provided no evidence that the cause was not God. So the evidence is favor of God, it's not proof, I freely admit that. But I hold to the principle that we are to decide what is the truth, by seeing which belief has more evidence to support it. You disregard the fact that I have proven to you logically that the evidence is in favor of God and demand proof before belief. I will believe because there is enough evidence, I am not stubborn enough to need proof
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
Look, you have not provided proof for god. You make the error in assuming that there was nothing other than god before the Big Bang, when in reality we don't know what was before it. It is needless speculation. We can just say we don't know, and wait for an answer. Until they combine Quanotom Physics and General Relativity, we will have no clue what came before the big bang. You are using the God of the Gaps fallacy and an arguement from ignorance. That is not proof of anything, other than...
atlant80 3 years ago
the fact that we don't know everything about our universe. For all we know, there was a different universe with different physics before ours, and it got crushed in a big crunch. Or maybe we are in a multiverse. Or maybe the laws of physics are local for us. Point is, we don't know everything, and it is pointless in speculating what happened before the BB because we don't have enough information.
atlant80 3 years ago
It is true that we don't know for sure and we can never know 100%, but that definitely does not mean that we should disregard all evidence, unless we can prove it 100%
Again, the question is, what is the evidence in favor of?
And as I have shown, it is more in favor of God then against. And as far as alternatives are concerned (multiverse, big crunch, etc) If you do your research you will see that those are not the most commonly held theories. The ones I proposed are.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
I have provided logical proof, as you have not (nor has anyone else) provided an alternative rather then God. In other words, no one can tell me what can freely choose, that is not a conscious being. Therefore God is the only logical option.
And how exactly am I a God of the gaps argument, when I am using scientifically derived evidence to support the argument? I use the evidence, not gaps in the evidence, to support my claim.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
No, look, does an apple choose to fall from the tree? No, it is a force called graviy. Similar forces probably caused the Big Bang, but we don't know.
Your arguement is not scientifically derived, it is reliaing on the gap in our knowledge of the big bang and our ignorance on the subject.
You have proven nothing at all because your arguement is flawed. I am not asking for 100%, just an arguement not based on ignorance and as heavily flawed. Ad scientists do not believe god created the ...
atlant80 3 years ago
universe, they freely admit that they don't know and keep trying to find out. The evidence is against a creator god, because it is the ultimate Boeing 747. How could something intelligent and all powerful possibly exist without being created or evolving? You dont know, so you say it is outside of time, yet how can it do anything outside of time? See, it's internally flawed. Your arguement holds little water and proves nothing other than wishful thinking combined with an arguement from ignorance.
atlant80 3 years ago
"How could something intelligent and all powerful possibly exist without being created or evolving?"
How could something be created or evolve outside of time? As explained before (i think with you) When time doesn't exist, nothing changes, nothing begins, nothing ends, it either exists or it doesn't.
"You dont know" I do know, I just told you, it's you that doesn't know.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
"does an apple choose to fall from the tree? No"
Exactly my point, nothing natural, that is not a conscious being, can freely choose anything. Only conscious beings can freely choose anything, the cause of the universe freely choose to create the universe, therefore the cause of the universe is a conscious being.
And my argument is only partially speculative, in that it uses logic to determine what existed prior to the BB using evidence after the BB. Examining an effect to determine the cause.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
And yet you assume it was a chosen decision, when it could have been a neutural one based on unknown forces or a combination of gravity and the 3 nuclear forces.
And if nothing changes without time, no decisions can be made. Again, inconsistant logic an double standerds.
atlant80 3 years ago
That's irrelevant and most likely untrue. 1) Whether it was a decision made with great desire or neutral desire doesn't affect whether it was a decision or not, it was still a decision, so it doesn't affect the argument. 2) The fact that it choose to create the universe just this way out of the vast array of possible universes, shows purpose and will, not a neutral will, but a very specific one, one that wants to see life.
Have a look at the fine-tuning statistics and you will see what I mean.
TheOriginProject 3 years ago
I have shown you that philosophically and logically speaking, God is the most and only option. I have provided you with scientific evidence to support this. You have not provided me with any contradictions to my premisses to show how the logic is flawed, therefore my argument still stands. You can demean the logic as much as you want by calling it armchair logic, despite the fact that most of the evidence has come about by experimentation not armchair logic. But even if it had, it is still...
TheOriginProject 3 years ago