The 3000 page Health Care Mandate Trojan Horse Bill is indicative of a sheepish population led by paid experts, lobbyists & politicians..
"Mandate"cloaked as "reform" is equally indicative of rampant stupidity directed at the confused, perpetrated by paid idols, endorsed by lonely flailing desperate fools,...hopelessly swallowed up in a culture of rampant runaway entitlement mentality...
If any 1 really wants to trust a govt. in debt that has come up with 1000+ pages of questionable legislation because they know we the people don't have time to read it, then I say let them implement it and see the results a year from now. True refrm shouldn't tke yrs to implement, but something tells me govt. nowadays cherry picks what they want to do and what they want to enforce. I've my doubts about today's system of govt. given that expanded govt. has caused more problems then it has solved.
and if anyone is truly wondering, yes I don't trust the govt. as they have had since the time I was born to correct wrongs and do the right thing in the U.S. I say look at the makeup of your representatives and look how Ted Kennedy was still allowed to serve. Had ethics been implemented back in the late sixties, then Ted Kennedy's career would've been over. I think there is still a lack ethics given some the fact that there are some that might not be to fit to serve the American public.
No, not grad student. Past that. I hold 2 masters degrees, one of which is an MBA. You're the one who tried to pull academic rank on me by suggesting I didn't take economics. So what's your education level, Captain Condescending?
Pelosi's ass isn't part of the equation, sorry to disappoint. The healthcare systems of other nations demonstrate what can work and what doesn't. We currently pay the most, and receive the worst. Maybe you're happy with that, but I want it fixed.
And even if the a health insurance is offered through the govt. or another company at under $100, if I'm getting hosed on what is being offered and if cash is tight with me, I don't throw my money away because I know I'm getting a bad deal. And if the IRS is used to enforce penalties for failure to have health insurance, then I think I'll finally start standing up for myself that much more as the govt. will have overstepped its bounds. One thing to bring health costs down, another to force ins.
Actually I have an MBA. And your predictions are demonstrably false. Most industrialized nations subsidize healthcare, and most of them still have private insurers as well. The taxpayer is currently picking up the slack for the uninsured. It will be less expensive across the board to have a public option. Required coverage? You mean like auto insurance? That's because the rest of us would, again, have to pick up the slack, and they should discourage that.
WF, any govt. that proposes a play or play approach to having insurance is a govt. to be questioned. You have your views and I have mine and I view it as unconstitutional and it is not the same as auto insurance as one can choose not to drive. I manage my finances accordingly and in bad times I cut my monthly expenses as needed to live and manage my own finances. The last thing I'm going to do is throw hundreds of dollars away on a policy when I'm unemployed.
You people keep regurgitating that same question. Well let me answer it for you. And by the way, I've read the bill myself, unlike most of you. Why doesn't congress "have to be on it"? For the same reason YOU don't "have to be on it." Nobody "has" to be on it. It's a OPTION, and you can choose to use it or not. So quit your girlish whining and educate yourself. Quit listening to fox news. Why not ask "if St. Louis is so great, why doesn't congress have to live there?"
Wineisy, so explain why they want to make it mandatory for Americans to carry insurance. Since when can you or anyone tell me how to manage my finances. And why would any govt. in their right mind threaten anyone with penalites for not having health ins? If the mandate language is in there, then it is unconstitutional and sounds to me like the root causes of skyrocketing costs in the industry were not effectively addressed at the public level. Never trust a govt. in debt.
shaithis45, I understand your point of view, but I already answered your question in a previous comment here where I mentioned how the rest of us are currently picking up the bill for the uninsured. It's the same as auto insurance. If you aren't insured and something happens that you can't pay for, the rest of us have to. Making you carry insurance (that will finally be affordable) is simply making you take responsibility for yourself, and free the rest of us from picking up your slack.
What I'm trying to say is since in my position being in and out of temp jobs and not getting a break in stable employment, I was not going to go out and purchase a plan (high deductible) designed to put me in debt. It's different now since I've rebuilt myself up in the workforce and will be getting insurance but the decisions on whether or not I have coverage lie with me and not the govt. The govt. doesn't control when I buy I policy. I DO!!!
the final point I can make is a year from now from when this future legislation passes, if rates truly come down then perhaps I may vote accordingly and keep the Dems in power. If things are still the same from now and if it is still the same B.S., then I'm voting otherwise and it will not be 4 Dems or Reps. It doesn't take years to implement a plan and this legislation should start taking effect immediately once it is passed. I want to see what the results really are months from now.
And I disagree with you that it is unconstitutional to mandate insurance. It is no different than making you pay taxes or making you have a driver's license to drive, or making you register handguns. Where the public is concerned, it makes sense to have rules, and that includes anything that will cost the taxpayers money..such as uninsured people. And there is nothing unconstitutional about it. Remember there will be subsidies for those who can't afford it.
WF, you have to bring down the cost of health care and mandating that people have insurance is such a poor argument. Once costs come down, then insurance rates will come down and maybe then you will have affordability. Also just want do I get for a low priced plan and the bigger question is am I throwing my money away. And what happens when I'm in between jobs and need to manage my money better. Everybody's situation is different. Mine was for the past few yrs where I was in/out of work.
the answer is not insuring everyone WF. That is just one big cop out from the govt. Has the govt. addressed what has cost health care costs to skyrocket or the fact that if health care costs were to come down, then insurance would come down with it. The argument for mandatory health insurance is a very one sided argument and people like me are starting to see bad govt. at the Federal level. Won't fly with me WF and there will be constitutional challenges to that mandate if it is included.
WF, what really makes this kind of funny is that you think it is my fault for not having health coverage. If your health ins. is that overpriced, then fight back and/or shop around for a better policy. Don't bitch to the uninsured or the individual as you're a fighting the wrong crowd. That is your problem for choosing to pay for an expensive policy. It is not my problem or his/her problem. You chose to pay that premium and nobody was forcing you. Do you see where I'm coming from now?
No, I certainly do not think it is your fault. I think it is the fault of the insurance industry price-gouging everybody. I went without insurance for a while, and the policy I have now is crap...probably worthless in reality. I don't "choose to pay for an expensive policy". All policies are expensive right now. The goal of reform is to fix that. ONCE it is affordable, it makes sense to me for everyone to cover themselves if they can so that taxpayers don't have to pick up their slack.
then we agree on something. "ONCE it is affordable" and perhaps every plan should offer some type of preventive care. So as with anything give it time and let's see if things get resolved in the next 3-4 years but I'm hoping immediately if this upcoming reform actually fixes it. On auto insurance, I control whether or not I have it and it is not like I'm in a town with effective mass transit so nd a car. Don't drive it to work though because I'm only 20+ minutes away by bike :)
WS, if insurance companies have really gone out of scope, then I'd probably say eliminate them altogether and go to a single payor system rather than let insurance companies keep getting paid. Personally I think all the govt. had to do was expand medicare/medicaid for all and then the problem would've been solved. I honestly don't know how much of a role we really want to give to insurance companies but that is just one realistic view if one truly thinks govt. is the way out.
another idiot that doesnt have a clue and hasnt read the piece of shit bill,we need to vote all of these morons out in 2010 both parties and odumba in 2012. I dont think some of these idiots can even read they are so old and out of touch, this bill will do nothing but give govt more control of your lives, cover illigals,we will have rationed care,long waits and this govt hasn't proven it can run anything and this 1/6 th of our economy,want to see what a depression is,let this bill get passed
Bunch of rednecks repeating what Rush Limbaugh says. Dittoheads. Unfortunately I used to be one of them and did my service to this country only to not be able to get a job and health insurance after my injuries. The Va healthcare system sucks. Private insurance companies don't care about treating anyone. There has to be some middle ground. All I see is a bunch of conservatives who contend that their selfishness is their right to freedom. Having fought for these people makes me sick.
God these people are expressing there Constitutional RIGHTS. Going reporting people to the White House is Unconstitutional. This will just make you the Traitor. Read the 1st Amendment we have a right to speak our mind. And so do you.
This jackarse doesn't know what he's talking about. The reason people are angry, these democraps CAN'T answer a question. He's reading talking points direct from the white house. Hey, Carnahan, can you say "UNEMPLOYED"
Let Congress come up with their bill and then in November let the American people vote on it. Simple enough! I think they already know the MAJORITY of people that can LEGALLY vote would never go for it! THE SILENT MAJORITY IS SILENT NO MORE !
Cost is an arbitrary construction created through discourse. While real objects do exist, Human beings create through discourse of poverty and prosperity. All that really matters is whether or not that we have the personnel and the physical resources to conduct any project that would be beneficial to the human species. That is how the members of Star Fleet organize all activity in Star Trek. Do we have to encounter the other, before we recognize ourselves?
Universal health care is implemented in all but one of the wealthy, industrialized countries, with the one exception being the UNITED STATES. It is also provided in many developing countries and is the trend worldwide.
Actually, according to The Economist, the countries with the best health care are France, Denmark and Netherlands. All three of these countries have universal health care. The reality is that the infant mortality rates and life expectancy numbers in the United States is among the worst in the developed world. The healthcare cartel in the U.S. has taken us hostage and the bill taking shape in Congress is a triumph for lobbyists of Big Pharma and the Insurance Industry.
Those mortality rates usually do not factor in things like traffic accidents in high density areas, crime, lifestyle (people can afford more food in more wealthy countries), drink & drug consumption, stress levels of people working far too many hours to provide welfare to the world, etc. Also, studies like the UN's study have only one sensible factor, the remainder are socialistic and/or inane, check your facts.
Bolstering your point with bogus claims of infant mortality rates doesn't make your case. In fact, try looking at abortions.
Europes healtcare QUALITY is down compare to US. In Euro, you wait in line. In US, you don't.
What healthcare cartel? back it up with facts.
Have you considered that their are many people abusing the system, especially the ones that have no insurance and visit the ER instead of going to regular doctor?
Zonly1 - CIA Factbook lists USA as #180 out of 224 countries for infant mortality. In case you need it spelled out: 44 other countries have lower rates than we. Even CUBA has better infant mortality than we.
World Health Organization survey in 2000 had USA ranked 37 in quality, beaten by all our industrial competitors (excepting China). We were also beaten by MOROCCO, which has a much higher infant mortality rate then the US.
What does that mean dumass? I asked you before to break it down and it does NOT include ABORTIONS anywhere in your response. You also don't break it down with age demographics.
Infant mortality? What a convenient factoid... I wonder how high that infant mortality rate would be if we didn't ABORT 4000 viable babies every single day. Just. Ugh.
Why would you listen to the Brits in regard to American legislation?
The UN study is nearly a decade old and only uses one factor that really has a thing to do with quality healthcare for which the US scored very well, the other factors are socialist. Look it up for yourself.
Maybe we could pay for healthcare if these punk-ass wanna be tough guy politicians stopped getting us involved in these dumb-ass wars. Its like these freaking faggots were picked on in high school, and now they gotta prove their man-hood. Most of these wanna-be tough guys never even served in the military.
Clean the slate. Bring all the troops home. Vote all these piggy incumbents out.
All Western Democracies (voters have control) have some type of national health care where for-profit health plans are not allowed to be central players in health care. Our Wall Street run "nonhealth" care system where profit is made from denying care is what needs to be eliminated.The health care professionals do the work & 100% of the money for health care comes from peoples' premiums & taxes - none comes from independent revenue raised by for-profit health plan unnecessary middlemen.
Order of Quality of Health Care in the World from The World Health Organization. France, Italy, San Marino, Andorra, Malta, Singapore, Spain, Oman, Austria, Japan, Norway, Portugal, Monaco, Greece, Iceland, Luxenbourg, Netherlands, UK, Ireland, Switzerland, Belgium, Coloumbia, Sweden, Cyprus, Germany, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Israel, Morocco, Canada, Finland, Austria, Chile, Denmark, Dominica, Costa Rica, USA. Also we pay more than any other country, We need reform NOW!
Gullible is what it takes to be a Congressional Representative along no math skills for budgeting and no reading comprehension for reading the bill - oh did not read the bill and is quoting talking points - am I right Rep Carnahan? There will be a larger pool but you will not be in it Representative Carnahan - you exempted yourself and those you care about but want to force those who have EXCELLENT health insurance into a far inferior plan. Be a man and include yourself or vote NO.
Breaking News Obama's Twin Brother's Birth Certificate was just FOUND and Released in Hawaii. Check it out BREAKING NEWS Mickey Hussein's Birth Certificate here:
But, commonly at the foundation of being a democrat politician is the hatred of themselves and America. They don't like capitalism, or allowing you to make you own decisions, and they apologize to others outside this country for America because they are ashamed of the country and themselves. They don't see this great country for what it is - like all the the rest of us and most of the rest of the world, by the way. It's just the way they are- they can't help it.
Here's what you need to know about democrat politicians. Most of them come to realize as they see the real life effect of their party's positions on heatlhcare, taxes, abortions, the economy, teachers' unions, etc., that what they believe is totally false.But this is how they make their living and they get on TV so they must then either switch parties, which they don't have the courage to do, or they lie. Most everyone just lies to keep their jobs. The others are just stupid or unbalanced.
By the way, this guy lied. The CBO said nothing of the sort- it said this would increase the deficit by $1 trillion now, but that the actual costs will be much higher if this dumb plan is implemented. Stop these people before it's too late. All the democrat haters out there who hate the American people and want to just use them so they can payoff the unisured for votes - so many democrats hate America and what it stands for- freedom, equality, decency, opportunity, you hate all of that.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I want you to consider those who cannot afford or will not pay for health insurance. Don't they deserve healthcare, too? All we're asking is that you find it in your hearts to give up the healthcare you have for your family so that others can have a little also. I know you may not get the care you need when you need - your child may get some silly operation - but what about the poor 47 million uninsured? What about them? Are you so cold as to not provide for them?"
Obama is a one termer for sure! There is no way our economy recovers with a liberal super majority running the show and getting in the way of the free market and human ambition.
EVERY Government run department LOSES billions. EVERY Government entity wastes our tax money. We all need to take our heads out of the sand before Nobama and his Marxist Clan come along and hacks our head off. We are losing all of our freedoms, our liberty, and the soul of the greatest nation that ever existed.
If I was in that press room last night, I would have asked this question:
"You state that your $1.5 trillion+ government plan is going to increase quality and reduce cost In what now amounts to roughly 1/6 of our economy. Mr. President, can you identify one instance in recorded human history of a government ever improving the quality & reducing the cost of anything... ever?"
Its the massive elephant in the room. How does government gain the credibility to make such claims?
I am a conservative and I don't want any governmental healthcare plan. It is a slippery slope, and once the hand of the government is introduced, it will only grow and usurp, I would like to see insurance reform legislation ONLY!
More regulation of the insurance industry, not regulation of the people, nor collecting, analyzing and/or databasing our most personal and sensitive records!
The track record of the federal government is pretty dismal for large programs. Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, broke. Social Security, broke. Medicare, cost overrun. Medicaid, cost overrun. Prescription drugs, cost overrun. And now you are bringing us another large program to the public like those that I just mentioned. This is what I'd like for you to do. Pass the bill but for the first 10 years force all federal workers from the three branches of government to use it.
Under the govt/public plan, what happens if the doctor misses the diagnosis or blows the surgery....can you sue the government? After all, they will administer the program.
I am a disabled Vet 100% for LOD injuries. What's so much better about the VA? The 6-12 week waits for appointments or the fact you must use a VA facility or pay out of pocket? Do you like that many prescriptions are non-existent and you often get "what we have"?
Do you like the 1-4 hour waits on prescriptions? I still appreciate the effort by the US taxpayer though, it's not thier fault.
Reality is that Medicares administrative cost is 3%. Private healthcare administrative costs are 15% and climbing. Private healthcare plans have increased the cost of premiums 56% since the year 2,000, while lessoning coverage, and increasing deductibles. I welcome a competitive Government health plan.
I'm far from rich. But at least I can affod a private healcare plan. I feel for those who've lost their jobs, and are facing forclosure and cannot afford a healthcare plan. I feel for their kids.
I feel for people in those situations as well, however, we have COBRA and Medicare in place, SCHIP for children (whether legal citizens) and Medicare for elderly.
We need insurance reform on a state level that requires Ins. to group cover pre-existing conditions at a reasonable cost.
Handing over our most sensitive and personal information to the government & universal coverage for all citizens & a huge illegal population is too costly & will mean second class care for all.
Life expectancy his not an accurate measure of health care systems between nations. This assumes the majority of people have interaction w/ health care and does not take into account situations that health care does not (auto accidents, individual lifestyle choices, number of hours works, numbers of hours spent commuting, nations like the US where people are working more hours with less vacation so we may keep up half of the world) affect & data that is collect is not necessarily consistent.
What are you afraid of? Having retired from the Federal Gov., I see health care reform as a typical contact. A contract can always be amended. We dont need a perfect contract from the get-go. What we needs is the guts to try something new. If we do nothing - were fucked. Do you even know what a contract amendment is? This is not about hardcore partisan bullshit. Healthcare costs have risen 56% since 2,000.
A contract is binding upon the parties involved, Universal Healthcare will be binding upon us all. A contract between parties would not put a tax upon outside parties. Universal Healthcare will be a pig of a tax upon all of us. Federal law is not amended like a simple contract. A simple contract is amendable between the parties. With Universal Healthcare the entire country becomes parties hereto. It has with over 1000 pages of regulations, as or more complex than the tax code.
Bullshit. Social Security was a binding contract until Reagan declared that all who retired from the Federal Government after 1983 would be subjected to his "Windfall Elimination Provision ( he called it double dipping), and stole half of my Social Security payout (even though Id paid into it in good faith, for 22 years). Whatever bill passes, can be tweaked (amended) in the future. I dont want my kids and grandkids to fret losing their homes due to unexpected medical bills
"If you work for an employer who does not withhold Social Security taxes from your salary, such as a government agency or an employer in another country, the pension you get based on that work may reduce your Social Security benefits."
"The Windfall Elimination Provision affects how the amount of your retirement or disability benefit is calculated if you receive a pension from work where Social Security taxes were not taken out of your pay. A modified formula is used to calculate your benefit amount, resulting in a lower Social Security benefit than you otherwise would receive. "
I'm well aware of the legal definition of the WEP. Reality is that if the Gov. didnt change the rules in 1984, Id be eligible for a larger SS payment.
It is called double-dipping. You want the public to pay for two full retirements for you? Fed employees did not pay into social security back then unless they paid for it in jobs outside their federal job.
"Social Security benefits are intended to replace only a percentage of a workers pre-retirement earnings. The way Social Security benefit amounts are figured, lower-paid workers get a higher return than highly paid workers......"
If a person works for private industry and pays into SSI for 25 years he or she is entitled to receive a guaranteed income upon retirement. Just for the sake of argument lets say that this person would receive 2k per month for life. If another person works 25 years in private industry and then takes a job w/the Fed gov. he/she might receive $800-1k per month from SS. They both paid exactly the same amount over the years into the SS program. How Is that fair?
Of course not. But SS was a kind of an insurance plan. Like an annuity. If you made your payments and achieved your quarters you were supposedly guaranteed a set amount when you retired. I didnt have the option to ask that a lower amount would be deducted from my paycheck. I had to pay a set amount as determined by government. It was like an insurance plan. There are laws against private insurance companies reneging on their payouts. Not so
Shouldnt I be entitled to my fair share for the 22 years that I did pay into SS? Reagan stole my money in order to fix SS. This is how he screwed me. Obviously this law doesn't apply you and you have no idea of the facts.
You don't understand how it works. I realize that I'm not entitled to collect any SS for my years as a Fed employee. Prior to 1984 a worker who retired from the Feds got 100% of what was due for the quarters paid into SS. In 1984 the Gov. devised a new system that actually pays out less for the quaters that I did pay into system.
A federal employee who retired in 1984 from the federal government would have only 1 year or less of social security withholding, so, he/she would not have enough quarters in to receive any benefit.
Person #2 works in private industry from 1960 to 1980 and pays into SS for 20 years. He then takes a job with the Fed. Gov. where he works for an additional 20 years. When he retires, hes only entitled to collect $600 per month from SS. Simply because he receives a Fed. pension. (Reagan called it double dipping). Prior to 1984 this person would have received his regular Fed pension plus $1,000 per month from SS.
The prior practices was that federal employees could retire @ 55, receive a full retirement from CSRS (Civil Service Retirement) then while receiving one government pension work another 10 yrs, and pay into social security a mere 10 yrs and receive a second full retirement from social security. Both retirements are backed by the tax payers. Double dipping! The government is not going to subsidize two pensions.
When I started with the Feds in 1983, the retirement age was 60 (not 55) with 30 years service for full CSRS retirement. The SS fix occurred in 1984. It would have been ok if it applied only to new employees. What isnt right is when the rules are changed to be retroactive. When you pay into any system for 23 years, you expect the payout to be the same as the next guys.
My story has never changed. I payed into both retirement systems. But because I retired from the Feds, the Gov is witholding a a portion of my SS payout. This is how Reagan "fixed" SS back in 1984.
Ok - I'll put this as simple as I can. The figures are hypothetical.
Person #1 works from 1960 to 1980 in private industry and pays into SS for 20 years. Hes only 40 yrs. old, but for some reason he stops working. When he turns 60 hes eligible to retire and collect $1,000 per month from SS.
alpha nailed it , and truth be told we have 3 or 5 scum bag spineless GOPers that will sign on and make sure Obama and congress have cover with this insane bill. watch Dear Leader Obama tonight pitching it again , this man is so clueless about basic economics. Then again its not about saving anyone money but reshaping or as he says " remaking " America. Imagine those that voted for him , wow that would suck !
you nailed it, this man is clueless, he's no prophet, or messiah, he's a junior senator given the most powerful seat in the world, and he's going to have a little fun and experiment with it.
Nice anecdote...it is amazing the quality of care you can get when the provider doesn't ever get sued. It can equally be amazing how messed patients can be when they come out of OR. You win some you lose some.
Because they can't allow republicans to use this bill against them when it becomes obvious to everyone that it is an economic disaster.
If they can get republicans to vote for it, when election time rolls around in 2012, they can say "But republicans voted for this too, we *BOTH* were wrong!".
THAT is why they are so concerned about bi-partisanship - they don't want to have to shoulder the blame themselves when election time rolls around, in 2012 and quite possibly as early as 2010.
The best health care reform is Tort reform. Everything else is just beating around the bush. But the reason it gets little attention up on the hill is that our gubment is made up of mostly what? Oh thats right, Lawyers!
I guess he thought he was speaking to a group of Obamatrons who would believe the Moon was made of cheese if "The One" told them so.
Either that or he figured if Obama can stand up there and lie and not be confronted he could to. Jeeezzzeee...get my waders out....the BS is waist high.
Real Americans understand that America was founded on a Republic form of government. We also know that the liberal ideology has no place in a Republic form of government. Too bad you can't accept that anymore than I can accept the usurper in chief.
Obama actually called in the head of the CBO to ball him out for telling the truth about the cost of Obama's plans. Obama is on course to totally ruin America for the NWO, but the people are finally catching on, and he doesn't like it! Notice that B.O. is getting madder in his speeches as his poll numbers plummet. Forget it Obama and Pelousy, we ain't buying the marxist crap you're sellin'.
TAKE TWO ASPIRIN AND CALL ME WHEN YOUR CANCER IS STAGE 4
All the problems with the American health care system come from government intervention, so naturally the Democrats' idea for fixing it is more government intervention. ...
Now the Democrats want to force us all into one gigantic national health insurance plan that will cover every real and mythical ailment that has a powerful lobby.
Even two decades after the collapse of liberals' beloved Soviet Union, they can't grasp ...
Make Congress, White House workers, and all federal workers use this "wonderful" system. The truth is they have a private healthcare system. People are catching on to these liars.
It is about time Americans spoke up, but it may be too late. Not only are we laughing at our government, but other nations, and yes, our enemies are laughing............
The sooner the US govt goes broke and collapses the better. There isn't one positive thing the govt does and there's no point in letting it survive.
Basically the US govt should be condemned to the same fate that it would bestow on someone who is over 70 with cancer under Obaboon's healthcare plan.
Unless you fully understand the minutia going on with the healthcare issue, you should NOT be on this board spewing your party affiliation and attaching yourself to it. Honestly, the days of blindly following a political party are NUMBERED, and you only make yourself look like an idiot.
Hey guys my political affiliation says this is/isn't going to work so I'm blindly going to listen to them and make sure everyone who thinks opposite of me realizes how dumb they are by making myself look fucking retarded in the process.
You don't fix the economy by throwing money at it. Both of Bush's modest stimulus packages boosted the economy briefly, then it dropped right back down to where it was before.
You boost the economy by giving tax incentives to companies so they can produce more, hire more, take people out of unemployment and poverty. But Democrats deride that as "tax cuts for the rich" and "Republicans only care about the rich, not the poor" because they understand money about as much as a trophy wife does.
"Efficiencies in the system.." Yeah - like, the government has always been so efficient in the past.
miazagora 1 year ago
The 3000 page Health Care Mandate Trojan Horse Bill is indicative of a sheepish population led by paid experts, lobbyists & politicians..
"Mandate"cloaked as "reform" is equally indicative of rampant stupidity directed at the confused, perpetrated by paid idols, endorsed by lonely flailing desperate fools,...hopelessly swallowed up in a culture of rampant runaway entitlement mentality...
Kill the bill..
Pork em hard..
Vote em out..
Nobody wants it...
hadenufnow 2 years ago
Kill the bill..
Nobody wants it..
hadenufnow 2 years ago
If any 1 really wants to trust a govt. in debt that has come up with 1000+ pages of questionable legislation because they know we the people don't have time to read it, then I say let them implement it and see the results a year from now. True refrm shouldn't tke yrs to implement, but something tells me govt. nowadays cherry picks what they want to do and what they want to enforce. I've my doubts about today's system of govt. given that expanded govt. has caused more problems then it has solved.
shaithis45 2 years ago
and if anyone is truly wondering, yes I don't trust the govt. as they have had since the time I was born to correct wrongs and do the right thing in the U.S. I say look at the makeup of your representatives and look how Ted Kennedy was still allowed to serve. Had ethics been implemented back in the late sixties, then Ted Kennedy's career would've been over. I think there is still a lack ethics given some the fact that there are some that might not be to fit to serve the American public.
shaithis45 2 years ago
"If it's so good, why doesn't Congress have to be on it?"
What a dumbass question. They don't have to be on it for the same reason the rest of the country doesn't have to be on it. It's freakin optional.
dougmanjones 2 years ago
Optional is to big of a word, for the right to understand. Come on, it has more then four leeter in it.
cwcwful 2 years ago
No, not grad student. Past that. I hold 2 masters degrees, one of which is an MBA. You're the one who tried to pull academic rank on me by suggesting I didn't take economics. So what's your education level, Captain Condescending?
Pelosi's ass isn't part of the equation, sorry to disappoint. The healthcare systems of other nations demonstrate what can work and what doesn't. We currently pay the most, and receive the worst. Maybe you're happy with that, but I want it fixed.
WineisyourFriend 2 years ago
And even if the a health insurance is offered through the govt. or another company at under $100, if I'm getting hosed on what is being offered and if cash is tight with me, I don't throw my money away because I know I'm getting a bad deal. And if the IRS is used to enforce penalties for failure to have health insurance, then I think I'll finally start standing up for myself that much more as the govt. will have overstepped its bounds. One thing to bring health costs down, another to force ins.
shaithis45 2 years ago
"Didn't take economics did you?"
Actually I have an MBA. And your predictions are demonstrably false. Most industrialized nations subsidize healthcare, and most of them still have private insurers as well. The taxpayer is currently picking up the slack for the uninsured. It will be less expensive across the board to have a public option. Required coverage? You mean like auto insurance? That's because the rest of us would, again, have to pick up the slack, and they should discourage that.
WineisyourFriend 2 years ago
WF, any govt. that proposes a play or play approach to having insurance is a govt. to be questioned. You have your views and I have mine and I view it as unconstitutional and it is not the same as auto insurance as one can choose not to drive. I manage my finances accordingly and in bad times I cut my monthly expenses as needed to live and manage my own finances. The last thing I'm going to do is throw hundreds of dollars away on a policy when I'm unemployed.
shaithis45 2 years ago
You people keep regurgitating that same question. Well let me answer it for you. And by the way, I've read the bill myself, unlike most of you. Why doesn't congress "have to be on it"? For the same reason YOU don't "have to be on it." Nobody "has" to be on it. It's a OPTION, and you can choose to use it or not. So quit your girlish whining and educate yourself. Quit listening to fox news. Why not ask "if St. Louis is so great, why doesn't congress have to live there?"
WineisyourFriend 2 years ago 2
Wineisy, so explain why they want to make it mandatory for Americans to carry insurance. Since when can you or anyone tell me how to manage my finances. And why would any govt. in their right mind threaten anyone with penalites for not having health ins? If the mandate language is in there, then it is unconstitutional and sounds to me like the root causes of skyrocketing costs in the industry were not effectively addressed at the public level. Never trust a govt. in debt.
shaithis45 2 years ago
shaithis45, I understand your point of view, but I already answered your question in a previous comment here where I mentioned how the rest of us are currently picking up the bill for the uninsured. It's the same as auto insurance. If you aren't insured and something happens that you can't pay for, the rest of us have to. Making you carry insurance (that will finally be affordable) is simply making you take responsibility for yourself, and free the rest of us from picking up your slack.
WineisyourFriend 2 years ago
What I'm trying to say is since in my position being in and out of temp jobs and not getting a break in stable employment, I was not going to go out and purchase a plan (high deductible) designed to put me in debt. It's different now since I've rebuilt myself up in the workforce and will be getting insurance but the decisions on whether or not I have coverage lie with me and not the govt. The govt. doesn't control when I buy I policy. I DO!!!
shaithis45 2 years ago
Who controls whether or not you have auto insurance? What's the difference?
WineisyourFriend 2 years ago
the final point I can make is a year from now from when this future legislation passes, if rates truly come down then perhaps I may vote accordingly and keep the Dems in power. If things are still the same from now and if it is still the same B.S., then I'm voting otherwise and it will not be 4 Dems or Reps. It doesn't take years to implement a plan and this legislation should start taking effect immediately once it is passed. I want to see what the results really are months from now.
shaithis45 2 years ago
Your life ?
biffsmith1950 1 year ago
...continued to shaithis45......
And I disagree with you that it is unconstitutional to mandate insurance. It is no different than making you pay taxes or making you have a driver's license to drive, or making you register handguns. Where the public is concerned, it makes sense to have rules, and that includes anything that will cost the taxpayers money..such as uninsured people. And there is nothing unconstitutional about it. Remember there will be subsidies for those who can't afford it.
WineisyourFriend 2 years ago
WF, you have to bring down the cost of health care and mandating that people have insurance is such a poor argument. Once costs come down, then insurance rates will come down and maybe then you will have affordability. Also just want do I get for a low priced plan and the bigger question is am I throwing my money away. And what happens when I'm in between jobs and need to manage my money better. Everybody's situation is different. Mine was for the past few yrs where I was in/out of work.
shaithis45 2 years ago
the answer is not insuring everyone WF. That is just one big cop out from the govt. Has the govt. addressed what has cost health care costs to skyrocket or the fact that if health care costs were to come down, then insurance would come down with it. The argument for mandatory health insurance is a very one sided argument and people like me are starting to see bad govt. at the Federal level. Won't fly with me WF and there will be constitutional challenges to that mandate if it is included.
shaithis45 2 years ago
WF, what really makes this kind of funny is that you think it is my fault for not having health coverage. If your health ins. is that overpriced, then fight back and/or shop around for a better policy. Don't bitch to the uninsured or the individual as you're a fighting the wrong crowd. That is your problem for choosing to pay for an expensive policy. It is not my problem or his/her problem. You chose to pay that premium and nobody was forcing you. Do you see where I'm coming from now?
shaithis45 2 years ago
No, I certainly do not think it is your fault. I think it is the fault of the insurance industry price-gouging everybody. I went without insurance for a while, and the policy I have now is crap...probably worthless in reality. I don't "choose to pay for an expensive policy". All policies are expensive right now. The goal of reform is to fix that. ONCE it is affordable, it makes sense to me for everyone to cover themselves if they can so that taxpayers don't have to pick up their slack.
WineisyourFriend 2 years ago
then we agree on something. "ONCE it is affordable" and perhaps every plan should offer some type of preventive care. So as with anything give it time and let's see if things get resolved in the next 3-4 years but I'm hoping immediately if this upcoming reform actually fixes it. On auto insurance, I control whether or not I have it and it is not like I'm in a town with effective mass transit so nd a car. Don't drive it to work though because I'm only 20+ minutes away by bike :)
shaithis45 2 years ago
WS, if insurance companies have really gone out of scope, then I'd probably say eliminate them altogether and go to a single payor system rather than let insurance companies keep getting paid. Personally I think all the govt. had to do was expand medicare/medicaid for all and then the problem would've been solved. I honestly don't know how much of a role we really want to give to insurance companies but that is just one realistic view if one truly thinks govt. is the way out.
shaithis45 2 years ago
what a dumbass. the obama white house is imploding. i'm squirming with delight!!
crockettsx 2 years ago
How christian of you.
WineisyourFriend 2 years ago
liars from the messiah obama on down vote these suckers out including obama
crawma 2 years ago
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IAmWinstonSmith 2 years ago
you are a moron and a liar
ajack50 2 years ago
another idiot that doesnt have a clue and hasnt read the piece of shit bill,we need to vote all of these morons out in 2010 both parties and odumba in 2012. I dont think some of these idiots can even read they are so old and out of touch, this bill will do nothing but give govt more control of your lives, cover illigals,we will have rationed care,long waits and this govt hasn't proven it can run anything and this 1/6 th of our economy,want to see what a depression is,let this bill get passed
ajack50 2 years ago
Bunch of rednecks repeating what Rush Limbaugh says. Dittoheads. Unfortunately I used to be one of them and did my service to this country only to not be able to get a job and health insurance after my injuries. The Va healthcare system sucks. Private insurance companies don't care about treating anyone. There has to be some middle ground. All I see is a bunch of conservatives who contend that their selfishness is their right to freedom. Having fought for these people makes me sick.
tcaser 2 years ago 2
These comments are treasonous- I am reporting you all to FlagatWhitehousedotGov
ObamaOrNoHealthcare 2 years ago
COMMIE!!!
allawenchen 2 years ago
God these people are expressing there Constitutional RIGHTS. Going reporting people to the White House is Unconstitutional. This will just make you the Traitor. Read the 1st Amendment we have a right to speak our mind. And so do you.
kaybbayyy2362 2 years ago
treasonous comments? go fuck yourself OONH.
shaithis45 2 years ago
6 BILLIONS SURPLUS? EFFICIENCY?
This jackarse doesn't know what he's talking about. The reason people are angry, these democraps CAN'T answer a question. He's reading talking points direct from the white house. Hey, Carnahan, can you say "UNEMPLOYED"
Frammom87 2 years ago
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I sent the news release about Cuba running out of TP !
LOL !
Hey, It could happen Here !
Vote (Send) early & Often, Chicago style.
dynatecme 2 years ago
Liar!!
smedge7 2 years ago
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Health Care: Does Canada Do It Better?
Watch this 20/20 report.
hydin1 2 years ago
Watch the CARNAGE begin in 2010...BUH-BYE you Democrap Socialist LIARS. hahaha
TinFoi1HatBrigade 2 years ago 2
Let Congress come up with their bill and then in November let the American people vote on it. Simple enough! I think they already know the MAJORITY of people that can LEGALLY vote would never go for it! THE SILENT MAJORITY IS SILENT NO MORE !
Paybacksoon 2 years ago
These guys just flat lie through the teeth.
Carnahan is bad he will be Voted out noone can stand him.
quizerry 2 years ago
When he gets kicked out of office he can always get a job as a comedian
1971texas 2 years ago
Cost is an arbitrary construction created through discourse. While real objects do exist, Human beings create through discourse of poverty and prosperity. All that really matters is whether or not that we have the personnel and the physical resources to conduct any project that would be beneficial to the human species. That is how the members of Star Fleet organize all activity in Star Trek. Do we have to encounter the other, before we recognize ourselves?
marshrunrun 2 years ago
Dumb libs. How about you jackasses learn to take care of yourself. I'll make you a deal and take care of myself in return.
How about the government stay OUT of my private life you fucking assholes.
vancomycina 2 years ago
Used car salesmen, teachers union member, no, a politician. What a jackass!!!!!
jefcostellox 2 years ago
There are laws against private insurance companies reneging on their payouts. Not so with the Government.
fpm229 2 years ago
well then you have many choices, so pick one and well keep our system . im happy with it
aaa1p 2 years ago
Universal health care is implemented in all but one of the wealthy, industrialized countries, with the one exception being the UNITED STATES. It is also provided in many developing countries and is the trend worldwide.
fpm229 2 years ago
who has the best quality health care?
hint: USA
who has the worst quality healthcare?
hint: those countries suscribing to universal health care.
Furthermore, obumers health care, over a 1000 pages, is falling like a rock and is his ratings.
Zonly1 2 years ago
Actually, according to The Economist, the countries with the best health care are France, Denmark and Netherlands. All three of these countries have universal health care. The reality is that the infant mortality rates and life expectancy numbers in the United States is among the worst in the developed world. The healthcare cartel in the U.S. has taken us hostage and the bill taking shape in Congress is a triumph for lobbyists of Big Pharma and the Insurance Industry.
CaratJews 2 years ago 2
Those mortality rates usually do not factor in things like traffic accidents in high density areas, crime, lifestyle (people can afford more food in more wealthy countries), drink & drug consumption, stress levels of people working far too many hours to provide welfare to the world, etc. Also, studies like the UN's study have only one sensible factor, the remainder are socialistic and/or inane, check your facts.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
What economist are you referring too?
Bolstering your point with bogus claims of infant mortality rates doesn't make your case. In fact, try looking at abortions.
Europes healtcare QUALITY is down compare to US. In Euro, you wait in line. In US, you don't.
What healthcare cartel? back it up with facts.
Have you considered that their are many people abusing the system, especially the ones that have no insurance and visit the ER instead of going to regular doctor?
Zonly1 2 years ago
Zonly1 - CIA Factbook lists USA as #180 out of 224 countries for infant mortality. In case you need it spelled out: 44 other countries have lower rates than we. Even CUBA has better infant mortality than we.
World Health Organization survey in 2000 had USA ranked 37 in quality, beaten by all our industrial competitors (excepting China). We were also beaten by MOROCCO, which has a much higher infant mortality rate then the US.
That's the fact, Jack!
BostonRocker51 2 years ago
What does that mean dumass? I asked you before to break it down and it does NOT include ABORTIONS anywhere in your response. You also don't break it down with age demographics.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Zonly1 2 years ago
Infant mortality? What a convenient factoid... I wonder how high that infant mortality rate would be if we didn't ABORT 4000 viable babies every single day. Just. Ugh.
anitathomer 2 years ago
caratjews:
Why would you listen to the Brits in regard to American legislation?
The UN study is nearly a decade old and only uses one factor that really has a thing to do with quality healthcare for which the US scored very well, the other factors are socialist. Look it up for yourself.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
How can we trust this guy? Does anyone know how much money this guy has accepted from healthcare lobbyists?
fpm229 2 years ago
Maybe we could pay for healthcare if these punk-ass wanna be tough guy politicians stopped getting us involved in these dumb-ass wars. Its like these freaking faggots were picked on in high school, and now they gotta prove their man-hood. Most of these wanna-be tough guys never even served in the military.
Clean the slate. Bring all the troops home. Vote all these piggy incumbents out.
fpm229 2 years ago
Oh, Sir, there you are wrong, this is absolutely partisan socialist politics being sold to us as an emergency
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
Just 2 words: TORT REFORM! Would lower all health costs, but dems will never approve, since lawyers are some of their biggest supporters!
3martijns 2 years ago
Dems symbol is the donkey - how appropriate, since synonym is ASS! So they are just being who they are! LOL!
3martijns 2 years ago
All Western Democracies (voters have control) have some type of national health care where for-profit health plans are not allowed to be central players in health care. Our Wall Street run "nonhealth" care system where profit is made from denying care is what needs to be eliminated.The health care professionals do the work & 100% of the money for health care comes from peoples' premiums & taxes - none comes from independent revenue raised by for-profit health plan unnecessary middlemen.
DrChristineAdams 2 years ago
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Order of Quality of Health Care in the World from The World Health Organization. France, Italy, San Marino, Andorra, Malta, Singapore, Spain, Oman, Austria, Japan, Norway, Portugal, Monaco, Greece, Iceland, Luxenbourg, Netherlands, UK, Ireland, Switzerland, Belgium, Coloumbia, Sweden, Cyprus, Germany, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Israel, Morocco, Canada, Finland, Austria, Chile, Denmark, Dominica, Costa Rica, USA. Also we pay more than any other country, We need reform NOW!
MulcheArcade 2 years ago
Gullible is what it takes to be a Congressional Representative along no math skills for budgeting and no reading comprehension for reading the bill - oh did not read the bill and is quoting talking points - am I right Rep Carnahan? There will be a larger pool but you will not be in it Representative Carnahan - you exempted yourself and those you care about but want to force those who have EXCELLENT health insurance into a far inferior plan. Be a man and include yourself or vote NO.
lonhosford 2 years ago
The fact that the politicians and unions refuse to go on their Healthcare plan says it all.
And their vision of a classless society would be...
drewbeda1 2 years ago
This guy is such a dipshit. His lies are nothing more than socializt propoganda.
Iknowthelaw 2 years ago 2
the new "BAGDAD BOB"
crockettsx 2 years ago
we are headed for absolute destruction if these morons are alloed to continue.
crockettsx 2 years ago
Breaking News Obama's Twin Brother's Birth Certificate was just FOUND and Released in Hawaii. Check it out BREAKING NEWS Mickey Hussein's Birth Certificate here:
i180.photobucket. com/albums/x13/Mactographer/birth_certificate_2-1.jpg
PORTUGAL1010 2 years ago
This guy reminds me of Bagdad Bob
Michalgirlmusic 2 years ago
OR Joe Isuzu
PORTUGAL1010 2 years ago
But, commonly at the foundation of being a democrat politician is the hatred of themselves and America. They don't like capitalism, or allowing you to make you own decisions, and they apologize to others outside this country for America because they are ashamed of the country and themselves. They don't see this great country for what it is - like all the the rest of us and most of the rest of the world, by the way. It's just the way they are- they can't help it.
cooks95 2 years ago
Here's what you need to know about democrat politicians. Most of them come to realize as they see the real life effect of their party's positions on heatlhcare, taxes, abortions, the economy, teachers' unions, etc., that what they believe is totally false.But this is how they make their living and they get on TV so they must then either switch parties, which they don't have the courage to do, or they lie. Most everyone just lies to keep their jobs. The others are just stupid or unbalanced.
cooks95 2 years ago
By the way, this guy lied. The CBO said nothing of the sort- it said this would increase the deficit by $1 trillion now, but that the actual costs will be much higher if this dumb plan is implemented. Stop these people before it's too late. All the democrat haters out there who hate the American people and want to just use them so they can payoff the unisured for votes - so many democrats hate America and what it stands for- freedom, equality, decency, opportunity, you hate all of that.
cooks95 2 years ago
"Ladies and gentlemen, I want you to consider those who cannot afford or will not pay for health insurance. Don't they deserve healthcare, too? All we're asking is that you find it in your hearts to give up the healthcare you have for your family so that others can have a little also. I know you may not get the care you need when you need - your child may get some silly operation - but what about the poor 47 million uninsured? What about them? Are you so cold as to not provide for them?"
cooks95 2 years ago
Obama is a one termer for sure! There is no way our economy recovers with a liberal super majority running the show and getting in the way of the free market and human ambition.
truthabounds 2 years ago 3
MOM.ARE WE THERE YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone please put a passifier in his mouth.................I cant wait till one of his daughters takes AF-1 to school for show and tell
marzilli1 2 years ago
If anyone but the main stream media could have asked questions last night to Barry, they would have laughed too at his ridiculus answers.
lfrench19 2 years ago
What a jerk
lmacorp 2 years ago
The currency deflates and the media throws the new President softball questions about what's it like to be President. We are toast!
truthabounds 2 years ago 4
Youre right. It was bad before, but last night was the moment that the media in this country officially conceded their submission to the president.
Weeth 2 years ago
The raise in taxes will be tax on tax.
All the people that work on or for the goods and services you buy will be taxed for this shit and it all gets past down to you, the consumer.
If you like your healthcare to be like a trip to the DMV and want to pay more for it, then GO FED yeah
Oh, dont forget the bonus, No pesky choices to make.
phantomcharger 2 years ago 2
How stupid do these idiots think we are!!
EVERY Government run department LOSES billions. EVERY Government entity wastes our tax money. We all need to take our heads out of the sand before Nobama and his Marxist Clan come along and hacks our head off. We are losing all of our freedoms, our liberty, and the soul of the greatest nation that ever existed.
iamzbacku 2 years ago 3
Thats what gets me...
If I was in that press room last night, I would have asked this question:
"You state that your $1.5 trillion+ government plan is going to increase quality and reduce cost In what now amounts to roughly 1/6 of our economy. Mr. President, can you identify one instance in recorded human history of a government ever improving the quality & reducing the cost of anything... ever?"
Its the massive elephant in the room. How does government gain the credibility to make such claims?
Weeth 2 years ago 4
Excellent comment. Jeff R.
JeffRooz 2 years ago
This guy reminds me of the guys who try to sell $1500 vacuum's door to door.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
I am a conservative and I don't want any governmental healthcare plan. It is a slippery slope, and once the hand of the government is introduced, it will only grow and usurp, I would like to see insurance reform legislation ONLY!
More regulation of the insurance industry, not regulation of the people, nor collecting, analyzing and/or databasing our most personal and sensitive records!
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
Russ - GET A CLUE!
rtkrenn 2 years ago
serving all 300 million Americans with the same amount of doctors and with no tax increases.
this plan could only come from a moron, a moron like Barry.
HollywoodWags 2 years ago 3
The track record of the federal government is pretty dismal for large programs. Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, broke. Social Security, broke. Medicare, cost overrun. Medicaid, cost overrun. Prescription drugs, cost overrun. And now you are bringing us another large program to the public like those that I just mentioned. This is what I'd like for you to do. Pass the bill but for the first 10 years force all federal workers from the three branches of government to use it.
Eat your own dog food, POTUS
milostea 2 years ago 2
Under the govt/public plan, what happens if the doctor misses the diagnosis or blows the surgery....can you sue the government? After all, they will administer the program.
vernieistooold 2 years ago 2
I am a disabled Vet 100% for LOD injuries. What's so much better about the VA? The 6-12 week waits for appointments or the fact you must use a VA facility or pay out of pocket? Do you like that many prescriptions are non-existent and you often get "what we have"?
Do you like the 1-4 hour waits on prescriptions? I still appreciate the effort by the US taxpayer though, it's not thier fault.
Prodius 2 years ago
Reality is that Medicares administrative cost is 3%. Private healthcare administrative costs are 15% and climbing. Private healthcare plans have increased the cost of premiums 56% since the year 2,000, while lessoning coverage, and increasing deductibles. I welcome a competitive Government health plan.
fpm229 2 years ago
fpm229:
It won't be competitive. It is step one to Universal death care.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago 4
I'm far from rich. But at least I can affod a private healcare plan. I feel for those who've lost their jobs, and are facing forclosure and cannot afford a healthcare plan. I feel for their kids.
fpm229 2 years ago
fpm229:
I feel for people in those situations as well, however, we have COBRA and Medicare in place, SCHIP for children (whether legal citizens) and Medicare for elderly.
We need insurance reform on a state level that requires Ins. to group cover pre-existing conditions at a reasonable cost.
Handing over our most sensitive and personal information to the government & universal coverage for all citizens & a huge illegal population is too costly & will mean second class care for all.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
The U.S. spends approx. 15.3% of GDP on healthcare.
England spends 8.0% of GDP on healthcare.
Sweden spends 9.4% of GDP on health care.
The life expectancy in Sweden is 80.5 years. Japan has the highest life expectancy averaged at 82.5 years
Japan also has the lowest percentage of health care costs at 7.9% of GDP.
Japan has achieved the lowest infant mortality rate in the world. The U.S. remains 19th among developed nations.
fpm229 2 years ago
Life expectancy his not an accurate measure of health care systems between nations. This assumes the majority of people have interaction w/ health care and does not take into account situations that health care does not (auto accidents, individual lifestyle choices, number of hours works, numbers of hours spent commuting, nations like the US where people are working more hours with less vacation so we may keep up half of the world) affect & data that is collect is not necessarily consistent.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
What are you afraid of? Having retired from the Federal Gov., I see health care reform as a typical contact. A contract can always be amended. We dont need a perfect contract from the get-go. What we needs is the guts to try something new. If we do nothing - were fucked. Do you even know what a contract amendment is? This is not about hardcore partisan bullshit. Healthcare costs have risen 56% since 2,000.
fpm229 2 years ago
A contract is binding upon the parties involved, Universal Healthcare will be binding upon us all. A contract between parties would not put a tax upon outside parties. Universal Healthcare will be a pig of a tax upon all of us. Federal law is not amended like a simple contract. A simple contract is amendable between the parties. With Universal Healthcare the entire country becomes parties hereto. It has with over 1000 pages of regulations, as or more complex than the tax code.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
Bullshit. Social Security was a binding contract until Reagan declared that all who retired from the Federal Government after 1983 would be subjected to his "Windfall Elimination Provision ( he called it double dipping), and stole half of my Social Security payout (even though Id paid into it in good faith, for 22 years). Whatever bill passes, can be tweaked (amended) in the future. I dont want my kids and grandkids to fret losing their homes due to unexpected medical bills
fpm229 2 years ago
"If you work for an employer who does not withhold Social Security taxes from your salary, such as a government agency or an employer in another country, the pension you get based on that work may reduce your Social Security benefits."
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
"The Windfall Elimination Provision affects how the amount of your retirement or disability benefit is calculated if you receive a pension from work where Social Security taxes were not taken out of your pay. A modified formula is used to calculate your benefit amount, resulting in a lower Social Security benefit than you otherwise would receive. "
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
I'm well aware of the legal definition of the WEP. Reality is that if the Gov. didnt change the rules in 1984, Id be eligible for a larger SS payment.
fpm229 2 years ago
It is called double-dipping. You want the public to pay for two full retirements for you? Fed employees did not pay into social security back then unless they paid for it in jobs outside their federal job.
"Social Security benefits are intended to replace only a percentage of a workers pre-retirement earnings. The way Social Security benefit amounts are figured, lower-paid workers get a higher return than highly paid workers......"
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
If a person works for private industry and pays into SSI for 25 years he or she is entitled to receive a guaranteed income upon retirement. Just for the sake of argument lets say that this person would receive 2k per month for life. If another person works 25 years in private industry and then takes a job w/the Fed gov. he/she might receive $800-1k per month from SS. They both paid exactly the same amount over the years into the SS program. How Is that fair?
fpm229 2 years ago
Should people who don't pay into the system receive SS?
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
Of course not. But SS was a kind of an insurance plan. Like an annuity. If you made your payments and achieved your quarters you were supposedly guaranteed a set amount when you retired. I didnt have the option to ask that a lower amount would be deducted from my paycheck. I had to pay a set amount as determined by government. It was like an insurance plan. There are laws against private insurance companies reneging on their payouts. Not so
fpm229 2 years ago
federal employees did not pay into social security before 1983 and the rules changed in 1984 so what are you bitching about?
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
Shouldnt I be entitled to my fair share for the 22 years that I did pay into SS? Reagan stole my money in order to fix SS. This is how he screwed me. Obviously this law doesn't apply you and you have no idea of the facts.
fpm229 2 years ago
You continue to change your story. No, you don't deserve to be paid for the years that you did NOT pay into SS.
What you are saying is that the FED should give you two full retirements when you paid into only one.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
You don't understand how it works. I realize that I'm not entitled to collect any SS for my years as a Fed employee. Prior to 1984 a worker who retired from the Feds got 100% of what was due for the quarters paid into SS. In 1984 the Gov. devised a new system that actually pays out less for the quaters that I did pay into system.
fpm229 2 years ago
A federal employee who retired in 1984 from the federal government would have only 1 year or less of social security withholding, so, he/she would not have enough quarters in to receive any benefit.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
Comment removed
fpm229 2 years ago
Comment removed
fpm229 2 years ago
Person #2 works in private industry from 1960 to 1980 and pays into SS for 20 years. He then takes a job with the Fed. Gov. where he works for an additional 20 years. When he retires, hes only entitled to collect $600 per month from SS. Simply because he receives a Fed. pension. (Reagan called it double dipping). Prior to 1984 this person would have received his regular Fed pension plus $1,000 per month from SS.
fpm229 2 years ago
The prior practices was that federal employees could retire @ 55, receive a full retirement from CSRS (Civil Service Retirement) then while receiving one government pension work another 10 yrs, and pay into social security a mere 10 yrs and receive a second full retirement from social security. Both retirements are backed by the tax payers. Double dipping! The government is not going to subsidize two pensions.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
When I started with the Feds in 1983, the retirement age was 60 (not 55) with 30 years service for full CSRS retirement. The SS fix occurred in 1984. It would have been ok if it applied only to new employees. What isnt right is when the rules are changed to be retroactive. When you pay into any system for 23 years, you expect the payout to be the same as the next guys.
I can see that well never agree on this. Soadios.
fpm229 2 years ago
fpm229:
Nice try, however when the law changed you could have only paid into ss for one year or less so your claim fails.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
Nice try ScarlettKnights: Ok Ill repeat myself one more time just for you, and Ill make as simple as I can:
Before working for the Feds, and before the law changed in 1984, I had already paid into SS for 23 years while working in private industry.
fpm229 2 years ago
My story has never changed. I payed into both retirement systems. But because I retired from the Feds, the Gov is witholding a a portion of my SS payout. This is how Reagan "fixed" SS back in 1984.
fpm229 2 years ago
How could you have paid into social security prior to 1983 when the federal gov. didn't not withhold prior to 1983?
Also, as you know, what you pay in is not what you get out, so you think you should receive 2 full pensions from the central government?
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ok - I'll put this as simple as I can. The figures are hypothetical.
Person #1 works from 1960 to 1980 in private industry and pays into SS for 20 years. Hes only 40 yrs. old, but for some reason he stops working. When he turns 60 hes eligible to retire and collect $1,000 per month from SS.
fpm229 2 years ago
Comment removed
fpm229 2 years ago
alpha nailed it , and truth be told we have 3 or 5 scum bag spineless GOPers that will sign on and make sure Obama and congress have cover with this insane bill. watch Dear Leader Obama tonight pitching it again , this man is so clueless about basic economics. Then again its not about saving anyone money but reshaping or as he says " remaking " America. Imagine those that voted for him , wow that would suck !
idahoman325 2 years ago 2
you nailed it, this man is clueless, he's no prophet, or messiah, he's a junior senator given the most powerful seat in the world, and he's going to have a little fun and experiment with it.
joezeppi 2 years ago 2
I had insurance w/ Blue Cross.
But I got tired of hearing my doctor argue w/ someone many miles away about whether I needed a procedure or test.
Inasmuch as I'm a veteran I decided to go to VA & it's been like nite & day.
Now if my doctor thinks I need something he orders it & It is done & he doesn't have to argue w/ someone for days or even months!
DillonX 2 years ago
Nice anecdote...it is amazing the quality of care you can get when the provider doesn't ever get sued. It can equally be amazing how messed patients can be when they come out of OR. You win some you lose some.
herosdiefreemen 2 years ago
Listen to all that jibberish. Can't these idiots speak plainly?
dinker333 2 years ago
I thought they required mathematics in public schools now a-days. Wonder how he managed to get out of it.
herosdiefreemen 2 years ago
Why do the democrats need republicans support on this healthcare bill?
They control congress and dont need any votes.
MeLikeGoFast 2 years ago 5
So they dont have to take all the blame they deserve which is every bit of it
Watts1214 2 years ago 2
BINGO!
MeLikeGoFast 2 years ago
Because they can't allow republicans to use this bill against them when it becomes obvious to everyone that it is an economic disaster.
If they can get republicans to vote for it, when election time rolls around in 2012, they can say "But republicans voted for this too, we *BOTH* were wrong!".
THAT is why they are so concerned about bi-partisanship - they don't want to have to shoulder the blame themselves when election time rolls around, in 2012 and quite possibly as early as 2010.
Mr32alpha 2 years ago
Its about time people started waking up and putting down the Obama koolaid!!!
toneo2001 2 years ago 10
The best health care reform is Tort reform. Everything else is just beating around the bush. But the reason it gets little attention up on the hill is that our gubment is made up of mostly what? Oh thats right, Lawyers!
nlandry2 2 years ago 7
Vote this ass out of office people! Time for Karl ObamarX to be buried with his henchmen.
Do you think this asshole cares about you? Think again...
melvinhartwinkle 2 years ago 8
I guess he thought he was speaking to a group of Obamatrons who would believe the Moon was made of cheese if "The One" told them so.
Either that or he figured if Obama can stand up there and lie and not be confronted he could to. Jeeezzzeee...get my waders out....the BS is waist high.
NiteSkyLookr 2 years ago 5
Obama is the Half Black Bush, Insurance companies OWN all of Congress both Democrats and Republicans.
CarryANationIII 2 years ago
Who does this prick think he is? Telling us, the voters, how it's gonna be? Explain to us, the voters, what HE has decided for us?
Sorry A-hole--That's not how this Democratic Republic works.
You! In the Suit!--Yer fired!
Time for his constituents to tell him how it's gonna be.
klim8hokes 2 years ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hey moron, you lost the last election. Now go climb back in your hole for the next 8 years. And stop embarrassing us real Americans.
burntonion05 2 years ago
Real Americans understand that America was founded on a Republic form of government. We also know that the liberal ideology has no place in a Republic form of government. Too bad you can't accept that anymore than I can accept the usurper in chief.
KodoTheShoe 2 years ago
And is UPPERCASE? Love the leftards.
melvinhartwinkle 2 years ago
moron
burntonion05 2 years ago
I hate the way these Democrats lie in the face of the people and fear no damage since their media partners help them escape punishment (barney Frank)
Slyrr7 2 years ago
Obama actually called in the head of the CBO to ball him out for telling the truth about the cost of Obama's plans. Obama is on course to totally ruin America for the NWO, but the people are finally catching on, and he doesn't like it! Notice that B.O. is getting madder in his speeches as his poll numbers plummet. Forget it Obama and Pelousy, we ain't buying the marxist crap you're sellin'.
Zile77 2 years ago
"
TAKE TWO ASPIRIN AND CALL ME WHEN YOUR CANCER IS STAGE 4
All the problems with the American health care system come from government intervention, so naturally the Democrats' idea for fixing it is more government intervention. ...
Now the Democrats want to force us all into one gigantic national health insurance plan that will cover every real and mythical ailment that has a powerful lobby.
Even two decades after the collapse of liberals' beloved Soviet Union, they can't grasp ...
"
-- AC
TylerNull 2 years ago
Wow, they were pretty civil. I think I would have gotten up and punched that fucking douche in the face.
I want CHOICES, I ( ME myself and I) want to make MY OWN DAMN decisions. These politicians can go fuck themselves.
KodoTheShoe 2 years ago 3
Make Congress, White House workers, and all federal workers use this "wonderful" system. The truth is they have a private healthcare system. People are catching on to these liars.
Franzko787 2 years ago
Our government disgusts me. Soviet Union 2.0
gears2ownsall 2 years ago
Amen.
Im gonna do my part. And I hope to start with Pelosi, Boxer and Fienstein
USARIP1 2 years ago
WERE COMMING TO GET YOUUUUU...
2010 if you last that long
sonixsp 2 years ago
Govt. inherently is unable to run ANYTHING efficency, except arguably security but another place and time..
Govt. Care does not work the British are begging and pleading with us NOT to do this.
Dcrew07 2 years ago
Nice dig from Kevin Jackson..
PoliCalc 2 years ago
Oh it will save money (for some). And everything is transparent -- it's just that politicians can't read it before they vote.
Be efficient? Create a surplus? Sorry, can't focus because of overwhelming laught....
jimutubes 2 years ago
Our politicians from on high being heckled and laughed at!!
Beautiful!! Revolt is soon to follow!!
snowcloud 2 years ago 2
Save the Constitution but get these thieves and liars out of government.
jjsalmiya 2 years ago 4
It is about time Americans spoke up, but it may be too late. Not only are we laughing at our government, but other nations, and yes, our enemies are laughing............
Goklayeh 2 years ago 3
The sooner the US govt goes broke and collapses the better. There isn't one positive thing the govt does and there's no point in letting it survive.
Basically the US govt should be condemned to the same fate that it would bestow on someone who is over 70 with cancer under Obaboon's healthcare plan.
SlaytheCensors 2 years ago 2
Rome is burning.
TOL1488 2 years ago
Heck, even Obama himself, admitted at the Mayo clinic last week, that there would be INEFFICIENCIES in his plan.
PhillyFlyGuys 2 years ago
Obama lied, transparency died
PhillyFlyGuys 2 years ago 4
Unless you fully understand the minutia going on with the healthcare issue, you should NOT be on this board spewing your party affiliation and attaching yourself to it. Honestly, the days of blindly following a political party are NUMBERED, and you only make yourself look like an idiot.
Dannyboy8155 2 years ago
Down with these wretched, despicable oligarchs.
quietdisdain 2 years ago 5
America, meet Marxism.
Marxism, say "yo wassup!" to your new home.
Ctenosaura 2 years ago 3
Hey guys my political affiliation says this is/isn't going to work so I'm blindly going to listen to them and make sure everyone who thinks opposite of me realizes how dumb they are by making myself look fucking retarded in the process.
MisterBlip 2 years ago
That about sums up Obamabots.
ajmccarrell 2 years ago 2
What? No.
That about sums up everyone.
MisterBlip 2 years ago
You don't fix the economy by throwing money at it. Both of Bush's modest stimulus packages boosted the economy briefly, then it dropped right back down to where it was before.
You boost the economy by giving tax incentives to companies so they can produce more, hire more, take people out of unemployment and poverty. But Democrats deride that as "tax cuts for the rich" and "Republicans only care about the rich, not the poor" because they understand money about as much as a trophy wife does.
crustyburgerhead 2 years ago 4
In the vernacular of today's youth: "True 'dat."
sp1068 2 years ago