Norman Finkelstein On His Trip to Gaza, and the Upcoming Demonstration 6/13/09 (5/5)

[Antizionist4life]

This proves that Hamas are not terrorists and they don't want to wipe out all Jews,they are just freedom fighters fighting against Zionist who terrorize them!! If Hamas hated all Jews as the American media say then why wouldn't protect this jewish man!

[oldstock1607]

@Antizionist4life LOL!! they're not retarded....they protect him because he's one of the most high-profile and vocal defenders of those terrorist cockroaches.

[Antizionist4life]

I love Mr Norman Finkelstein!!! 

[RepublicOf32]

What a humanitarian Dr.Finkelstein is. He's a man with a heart of gold. It's one of my life goals to shake hands with him.

[ibph2000]

Israel is a Monster state

[goldenageback]

Yeh, yes when will this event take place, would like to support it!

[mjd1982]

awesome set of vids

[boazmoss]

Is there an option where all of you can go and fuck off?

[SweetDissident]

just amazing uploads, Charngchi!!! Way to go!!!!!!!!

[lapwiz]

It is completelly winable if we do our job.

It defies reason that this shame's - still happening, I mean: REALLY!

Israel is bizzare!

[FMOlszynaa44]

Wake up friend;Israel has as much power as the USA gives it; specially those fuck-up fundamental christians;these beasts actually believe the situation in Palestine is the opening salvo in the Apocalyptic coming of the savior.If you want to help to stop this crime against humanity turn to the peoples here(USA)and don`t let them off the hook til they stop spending your moral capital and tax money in support of this atrocity:Israel is a pimple on the ass of Yahwe and needs to be burst!

[lapwiz]

gotta love the Fink!

[Zantorc]

America should stop funding Israel, instead they should set up a Zionist state in the US, fund that instead and impose a single state solution. Those Zionists who feel they cant live along side Arabs can emigrate to the 'new Israel' in the US. Failing that, there is no peaceful solution. The tide of western public opinion has shifted against Israel and may impose a less favourable terms.

[Mechelle68]

At times it appears as though it has already become the "New Israel."

[alexrsuarez1]

i mean portrayed, well betrayed too.

[efsgi]

oh i am so so thinking abut gaz abut gaza mmmmmmm what abut sderot kids what abut them they can die ah? so hipocreats and julia you are so so brainwash you so traying to be special but the fact that you have noting in your lufe but arabs you need some arab dick!

[alexrsuarez1]

how many members of the delegation are not jewish! ha. i love it. these people were protected by hamas, who are betrayed as anti-semites! so ironic!

[SweetDissident]

There is nothing anti-semetic about Israelis and Jewish persons who believe Israel should stop its illegal apartheid and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. These Jewish persons are hardly anti-semetic, or "self-loathing;" they simply know injustice when they see it.

[Reptile0000]

man i kinda like Julia lol she is activist and determinent, her vioce is cool too lol Professor is brillent I attended his lecture here in England at that time he was thinkin of doin this. Good luck guys..

[kurtilein3]

thats really very interesting.

when will this event take place? i mean, the march of those peace activists and students?

[Chomskyan]

Hopefully around new years day.

[anrioscar]

@Chomskyan ...so I wonder, what's the latest? Did the protest happen? If not, will it? If yes, is there a record of it?

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

I'm wondering if any one in the pro-Israel/pro-war crowd will make a response to these videos.

I take it they won't.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

And in case you're wondering, my (former) school really was that pro-Israel (when word got out that Norm here was coming to speak back in spring 2008 there was a campaign by CSUN Hillel to censor him, so he knows what I'm talking about when I told him about the campus here). But that was then and I'm looking forward to helping out with the Gaza march.

[silversalvo]

Thanks for the upload Chomskyan ,

Its always great to hear form Norman, a really sharp mind and observations. Its odd though , seeing him pull a few jokes ; I always see him so serious , but considering the context in which i usually see him its understandable.

[28g34ajbsd]

Oh, he can crack a well-placed stand-up-comic- timed howler during his lectures just fine, silversalvo :) Most of it is - as the occasion and the topic calls for - dry and black, but some of it became a staple of his lectures. Sometimes he'll quote Woody Allen ("if you'd combine Commentary and Dissent magazines you'd get Dissentery"), but my fav is about how Tivalu, one of Israel's allies in the annual Security Council vote on the Palestine resolution is disappearing due to global warming :)

[annamar7]

Excellent video presentation. I really enjoyed Dr. Finkelstein in a casual Q&A.

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

Thanks. :)

[juliaisafilmbuff123]

Thanks for the comments, guys. We had a good time chatting with Norman at his place.

Should I write a transcript for this interview on my blog too?

[maghrebianka]

Btw. When will the demo take place??

[larrylife4life]

check his website.

[maghrebianka]

Very interesting, thanks for posting!

[7jerryv7]

Reuters noted that "Netanyahu bows to Obama, accepts Palestinian "state"". Obama has done a great deal to move the peace process forward. I know his approach will actually accomplish something.

I like problem to be solved. A two-state solution would make the guilty party clearer when there is violence.

[oldjoe5]

Netanyahu agreed to a 3 to 6 month moratorium on starting new settlements -- settlements that were not going to be built anyway. Israel opened construction on a massive new settlement within weeks of Obama saying the settlements had to stop.

Obama is just another Zionist puppet

[7jerryv7]

You read like Rush Limbaugh...I hope he fails so this demonstrates my argument.  Why do I bother...

[oldjoe5]

Netanyahu agreed to a 3 to 6 month moratorium on starting new settlements -- settlements that were not going to be built anyway. Israel opened construction on a massive new settlement within weeks of Obama saying the settlements had to stop.

And your fact filled and well constructed reply? "Rush Limbaugh...fails to demonstrate....why do I bother"

[7jerryv7]

Thanks for proving my point. The right wing media purposefully omits parts of arguments. You omitted-

"Obama is just another Zionist puppet "

Rush Limbaugh said he wanted Obama to fail as it would prove his argument that Obama is incompetent. Judging someone as a Zionist puppet before all the facts are in, which will take about a year, is just his style of argument.

[oldjoe5]

Obama's 1st act as president elect was to name Rahm Emanuel as chief of staff. He refused to comment while Israel massacred the Gazans. He grovels before AIPAC annually. He said nothing when Israle's response to his call for the end of the settlements was to break ground on a massive new settlement.

The question actually is: How is Obama not a Zionist puppet?

How did U arrive at one year as the time needed to make a judgement on someone. Or should I ask what body part you pulled it from?

[7jerryv7]

First, know your audience. Obama has to be a diplomat, not a cowboy.

Second, it could take another six months to a year to determine if Obama is engaging the Israelis. Next, the Israelis must respond. Finally, Obama must put pressure on them if they do not respond. I know...kinda complicated and takes time.

[oldjoe5]

He said nothing when Israel's response to his call for the end of the settlements was to break ground on a massive new settlement.

You are in denial if that did not let you know for sure that Obama will not stand up to Israel and the Lobby

[Tali999]

Obama is not engaging the Israelis. And settlements are still being constructed. New settlements being erected and Palestinian citizens of Israel are evicted from their homes.

[oldjoe5]

Israel has already responded. They immediately spit in his eye when he stated they have to stop with the settlements. Within days they announced the ground breaking for a massive new settlement in the W Bank.

Now it is up to Obama to respond. And he did, by saying nothing (his same response to Israeli piracy and kidnapping of C McKinney).

Forget it. Obama is nothing. Just another careerist, politician looking out for number one

[7jerryv7]

I look at it differently. My only concern is with the two-state solution. Obama should be kept to this goal. If he waivers then his policy towards Israel will be a failure.

[oldjoe5]

You look at it differently?

It's over. Israel is pissing all over Obama and he won't even admit it is raining

[7jerryv7]

God forbid anybody look at things differently than you. There is only one way to look t the world. This dialog is over. To think I have been debating with someone that is so closed minded. What a complete waste of my time. I will be careful in the future.

[oldjoe5]

Wow.

Talk about denial and overly sensitive

[7jerryv7]

Sensitive? Denial? Nice try but sorry.

No, just started to realize that some people cannot see things from any point of view other than their own. It is amazing that this is about the only thing I learned from watching these videos and commenting.

[oldjoe5]

Israel has already responded. They immediately spit in his eye when he stated they have to stop with the settlements. Within days they announced the ground breaking for a massive new settlement in the W Bank.

Now it is up to Obama to respond. And he did, by saying nothing (his same response to Israeli piracy and kidnapping of C McKinney).

How many ways are there to intepret Obama's silence?

[7jerryv7]

Waste of my time

[oldjoe5]

Can I assume that means you have no other reasonable interpretation of Obama's silence when Gazans were being massacred in plain sight, when Netanyahu took a dump on his head by breaking ground for a massive new settlement only days after Obama demanded Israel do o such thing, when Israel pirated a ship in international waters and kidnapped a former US congresswoman?

[7jerryv7]

I believe that the solution to the Israel-Palestine requires time and it is counter-productive to read too much into each action without looking at the broader, long-term picture. Kidnapping Cynthia McKinney was not smart but not the end of the process.

My concern is not giving Obama time. Israel has threatened Iran and want Obama to have leverage here too.

There will be a time when Israel and Obama will have to live up to their words. If they do not, then we judge them. Not before.

[oldjoe5]

Sixty years of murder, oppression, occupation, annexation not enuff?

How about taking over the US congress via bribery and extortion?

[7jerryv7]

Well, the US Congress has already been bribed. Too late.

How many presidents have engaged Israel over the last sixty years? What I am looking for is engagement. Not condemnation, which Israel could care less about. Not cutting off assistance, which is a drop in the bucket. Engagement.

I also believe that the US should take military action to bar Isreal from attacking Iran. The US should also directly and publically tell Isreal that it will shoot down planes headed towards Iran.

[oldjoe5]

Too late? Just accept it and give up?

The international community should be putting massive economic sanctions on Israel until they return to their 67 borders, stop the blockade on Gaza, and dismantle their nuclear weapons with the oversight of inspectors.

$3 billion plus per year and another $9 to $10 billion in loan guarantees plus another several hundred million to seetle Jews in Israel from anywhere on the planet is a bit more than a drop. The US taxpayer should be made aware

[Tali999]

That's why there's a boycott movement, and it progress whether Obama wants it to or not.

2 billion a year is hardly a drop in the bucket, especially when it's military aid.

[efsgi]

tali666 come on make us and world a huge favor and just keep yourself quiet you such a disgrace for your family and to israel you are the main reson i want to be gay,if there only girls like you in the world,i promice i become a nun!

[Tali999]

Kidnapping Cynthia McKinney and a bout-load of unarmed civilians in international waters is a violation of international law and shouldn't be made light of.

Israel has broken so many promises, so many laws, so many lives. 61 years ago was a good time to start judging.

[Tali999]

The two state solution violates the Palestinian right of return. How will people expelled from Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem and anywhere else, in what is now known as Israel, go back, if their state is the West Bank and Gaza?

[7jerryv7]

9/11 occured because of US support of Israel. Israel and the Palestinian leaders act as if they do not want peace.

The US should without all aid until there are two states.

Tthe US should not fund any organization that provides aid to either party until there are two states.

The US should boycott Israel and all states that do business with Israel.

Its time these children are put in their place. They had their chance.

[Tali999]

As to why 9/11 occurred, I know at least ward Churchill would beg to differ with you. As for who acts like they want piece- Khaled Meshal has been stating over and over that he's all for the '67 borders. Israel keeps on building settlements on Palestinian lands, roadblocks, oppression, torture, political prisoners, children arrested in the middle of the night...

I agree with you on all 3 statements as to what US should do, except for the fact that the US is the one who backs Israel's -->

[Tali999]

crimes, and it's US planes who still bomb civilians in Gaza. US owes Palestinians.

You treat the occupiers and the occupied as if they were both to blame. This is a fallacy. This isn't a war, there are no two armies.

[7jerryv7]

Is say that the support of Isreal caused 9/11 for two reasons. First, the hijackers said this was the number one reason. From a micro-perspective this is all that is necessary for causality. This was supressed by the US media. This did not fit in with the "They are out to destroy freedom and democracy" focus. From a macro-perspective radical terrorists groups are all angry with the US for supporting Israel - the biggest terrorist state. I mean Israel makes Iran look like nice people.

[Tali999]

I really recommend "Some People Push Back

On the Justice of Roosting Chickens". Although many Middle Eastern leaders have expressed their contempt for Israel, knowing full well the US supports it, none have waged war on US civilians. That includes Iran, which to date has no nuclear arms plan, just a nuclear plan.

[efsgi]

טלי את כל כך דואגת לזכויות הפלסטינים? מה עם הילדים בשדרות, הילדים באשקלון בקרית שמונה או סתם העוני שיש במדינה האלימות אחד כלפי השני. או שאת מנסה להיות "מיוחדת" בעיני עצמך או סתם עברת איזושהי טראומה בחייך אחרת אינני מבין את היותך גייס חמישי במדינה

[efsgi]

hamas are normal kids? 19 21 kids that kill rape degradin womans right? are normal kids? no matther how you live you never never need to kill!

[Arjuna1901]

(Con't)

After nearly seven months of fighting (interrupted by two UN-decreed truces), Israel defeated decisively all the Arab states, crushed the Palestinian resistance, and signed a series of armistice agreements with all of it's Arab neighbors.

------

Google 'Professor Ze'ev Moaz' & see his vast credentials. "He also served as the Head of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies (1994-1997), as the Academic Director of the M.A. program of the National Defense College of the IDF (1990-1994)."

[Arjuna1901]

The image of Israel being this poor little country attacked by a horde of Arabs is a myth.

The Jews only owned 7-9% of the land/property in Historic Palestine and yet the Imperial West and the UN thought they deserved over 50% of the land. The Arab majority had a right to be outraged.

[Arjuna1901]

And the exodus of the Jews from the Arab world is still being explored.

Avi Shlaim - an Iraqi Jew - wrote a book on the exodus of the Jews from Iraq.

Your implication that the Jews were driven out is not accurate. There were a combination of factors that (such as instigation from Jewish militant groups) that led to the exodus.

Furthermore, these Jews were going to another country - that claimed to be a Jewish haven. Whereas the Palestinians were driven out of their homes into refugee camps.

[Arjuna1901]

Firstly, the Palestinian expulsion occurred under conditions of external war and conflict, whereas the Jewish departure from Iraq primarily reflected internal political developments. In addition, the Jewish departure reflected far more diverse factors. As already noted, many Jews were strongly motivated by Zionist beliefs, and voluntarily left Iraq for Israel (Tessler 1994:309).

[Arjuna1901]

Secondly, the two exoduses did not concur chronologically. The Jewish exodus from Iraq and other Arab countries took place a number of years after the Palestinian exodus. There is no evidence that the Israeli leadership anticipated a so-called population exchange when they made their arguably harsh decision to prevent the return of Palestinian refugees (Morris 1987:254-255).

Thirdly, it is important to remember that the Arab States, not the Palestinians, were responsible for the Jewish exodus.

[Arjuna1901]

Finally, Israel agreed to accept the Jewish refugees who subsequently integrated with varying degrees of success into Israeli society, and looked towards the future. Unlike the Palestinians, most of the Jewish refugees had little or no desire to return to their former homes in Baghdad or elsewhere. In contrast, the Arab states refused to facilitate an organized resettlement of Palestinian refugees. Consequently, most looked backwards, and held onto hopes of a return to Palestine (Segre 1971:126)

[Arjuna1901]

Sources:

Tessler, Mark. 1994. A History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. Bloomington:Indiana University Press.

Segre, V.D. 1971. Israel: A Society in Transition. London: Oxford University Press.

Morris, Benny. 1987. The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

[7jerryv7]

Does anybody buy this argument anymore? I mean, really?

[Arjuna1901]

(Con't)

Initially the Jews had far less advanced military equipement than the Arab armies, but this changed quickly when Israel signed a weapons deal with Czechoslovakia. Other weapons deals through private sources also enabled the new state to tilt the balance of hardware in it's favor (Ilan 1996, 181-200).

[Arjuna1901]

(Con't)

The Syrian and Lebanese armies engaged in token effort but did not stage a major attack on the Jewish state. Other state sent volunteers, but the combined strength of the Arab armies and the irregular forces fighting the Jewish state was far less than anticipated. The balance of forces in terms of military personnel was in favor of the Israeli army (Golani 2002, 158-68).

[Arjuna1901]

(Con't)

With the support of six members against four opposed, the Provisional Council decided to proclaim a Jewish state and call it the state of Israel. The Provisional Council would henceforth become the provisional government of Israel, until such time that elections could determine the permanent government.

As David Ben-Gurion, the interim prime minister, had anticipated, on May 14, 1948, a combined invasion of a Jordanian and Egyptian army started.

[Arjuna1901]

{Con't)

However, they were poorly equipped and required considerable training before they could be sent to the front. They military commanders anticipated as many as 120,000 Arab soldiers equipped with armor, airplanes, and artillery to participate in the invasion of Palestine (Ostfeld 1994, 23-24). The military commanders estimated the chance of survival of the Jewish state as even at best (Sharef 1959, 83-84; Shlaim 2000, 33).

[Arjuna1901]

(Con't)

The representatives of the security organs of the Yeshuv - the prestate institutions - presented a bleak assessment of the coming war. They expected at least three and as many as seven Arab states to send armies into Palestine. The Jewish population, numbering 650,000 people, was being mobilized. By May 1948, the newly established army of the Jewish organizations amounted to some 80,000 recruits (Ostfeld 1994, 54).

[Arjuna1901]

From Ze'ev Moaz's 'Defending the Holy Land':

The inclination of the Jewish leaders was to proclaim the formation of the Jewish state. But that would bring about an invasion by the armies of the Arab state. On the table for consideration was an American proposal to delay the declaration of independence, accept an armistice, and allow for a mediation process by the international community in an effort to find a mutually acceptable solution to the Palestine problem.

[Guedingen]

Thanks for this

[Arjuna1901]

You are a moron.

The Arab world is dominated by corrupt family dictatorships - supported by the Western governments.

This is about land.

In 48', 800K Palestinians were ethnically cleansed and then refused their right of return. That's why you have a Jewish majority inside Israel.

The Palestinians are not immigrants - it's THEIR land and that's why they keep fighting.

Only retards like yourself blame it on religion - because THAT is on your intellectual level. You're incompetent.

[brabon1]

man, your view of history is really strange

in 48, there was a war, where the arab states attacked israel

also, the arab countries ethnically cleansed close to one million jews

are you screaming for their return to their lands?

its called population exchange, just as occured between india and pakistan

the arabs have no right of return...end of fucking story

[buddhagem]

Whether Buddha existed or not is irrelevant. Whether or not Moses existed or not seems pretty relevant when you are trying to make land claims based on a fictional character. And once must wonder at how often god is used to sanction real estate transactions.

[buddhagem]

There's not a shred of evidence that "Moses" ever existed, nor is there any evidence that they were ever enslaved by the Egyptians. Made up stories, mostly, to justify the monarchy of David.

[drgoodvibesxxx]

i answered your question several times however you are too bigoted and racist to see. i don;t believe the story of mosses because it does not make sense to me. i am only concerned with the reality that israel is getting weaker that is proven when hezbollah kicked there asses and they could not even invade lebanon. i am not an arab you twit only a narrow minded person would assume that i was an arab because i disagree with you. i was jewish if you want to know. you are dismissed.

[7jerryv7]

This guys totally blews some facts because he is trying to make jokes. This makes it difficult to take him seriously. His jokes are not funny - and I hate Bush.

I also find it difficult to take it seriously when everyone seems to focus on Isreal as the problem and fail to look at the probems caused by Palestinians and their supporters. Most Americans think Palestinians are terrorists and Isrealis are the heros. The opposite holds true for people commenting on this video.

One-sided.

[drgoodvibesxxx]

usually there will be 2 sides to every story, your job as a person is to listen to both sides and then decide weather the facts support one sides or the other. that is what discourse is all about. so when you say this is one sided its supposed to be.

[7jerryv7]

Two houses next to each other. Both neighbors wait for the clock to hit high noon. Then - they shoot at each other. Cops show up. One side says self-defense, the other is the aggressor. Which is right and which is wrong? And no, dont try to tell me side A or B started it.

Using ANY definition of terrorism, I can give you list of terrorist acts committed by the US, Isreal, Palestinians and Iranians. Oh, and the Saudis too. So, you are right - we side with our favorite terrorists.

[JessLaJess]

Your argument is meaningless because it's fallacious.

Are you seriously unable to decide what's worse: state terrorism or individual terrorism? Are you unable to understand, according to the Geneva conventions, which war crimes are more serious?

I'm certain you barely listen to a word Finkelstein says, or you don't believe in International Law, otherwise you'd understand that no one is saying Palestinians are saints, but most of the world understands that Israel is committing a mas murder.

[7jerryv7]

If I did not listen to Finkelstein then how come I noticed his factual innacuracies?

Also, regarding type:

X terrorism = Y terrorism = z terrorism

Has Isreal killed more civilians than Palestinians? Of course, by far. Will trying to show one side is a greater terrorist than another accoplish shit? No.

The point is - I am for practical solutions. It does not help to dwell on the past. The US was segragated 60 years ago. Now? You cannot move forward while clinging to the past.

[drgoodvibesxxx]

if you really believe in god than you should no better than to call people names, did mosses do that ? its amazing to me that the people kill and cuss the most are those who believe in god the most. now that's ignorant

[drgoodvibesxxx]

your comparing the moon landing and the holocaust to god speaking to moses through a burning bush?. well god spoke to me yesterday through my cat and told me your brain is made entirely of vaginal fluids. god also spoke with the muslims and gave them the land so you should take it up with him. i could bring you my cat or an even better idea you should kill yourself and when your rise up you can speak to him personally ask him why he gave the land to so many people.

[drgoodvibesxxx]

there has never been anything called eretz israel, its a figment of you imagination like the Sasquatch or the lochness monster.

but its always nice to make believe. like i'm making believe that your not an actual person but a piece of shit like the christnas poo from southpark. like i said its nice to dream, but make sure your dreams are attainable so you don;t break your little heart. eretz israel eh, i though i heard it all

[zayadnay]

you all get killed with me but i'm younger lool i like this guy, he has has the perfect balance of seriousness and humor

[7jerryv7]

And incorrect facts...and poor arguments...

[aewester]

Gaza will be demolished? You sound like a fucking NAZI.

All supporters of Muslims are filth and should be killed? Again, NAZI-esque.

I know a few people from Palestine, one from Gaza, and they all seem like good people to me. One is a good friend of mine. He laughs when people ask him if he believes in god, but he "Supports Muslims". Should he be murdered.

Why do you say this shit? Are you trying to ruin your position by just being completely fucking ridiculous and inept?

[drgoodvibesxxx]

wow, thats intresting do you kiss your mother with that mouth ?

[SmokiSounds]

lol Finkelstein's so chilled and cool I'd love to talk to him and smoke a blunt together!

[region1111]

There's something about finkelstein that's a little unnerving.

He's a little too one sided. I agree Israel should be called on its bullshit (as all countries should) - but that doesn't mean I side with groups like Hamas.

They're just as batshit insane as the Israeli government.

[dopeskies]

only because Israeli drove them into extremism

[region1111]

dopeskies that's a part of it.

But there are passages about fighting the christians, jews, and unbelievers in the qur'an - and that was written over a thousand years before there was any israel or america.

[drgoodvibesxxx]

and i assume you have met them to form such a strong opinion if them. maybe you atleast reaf there website so that you could be informed on both sides. i'll put my money on you didn't do any of that.

[region1111]

Yes drgoodvibesxxx I read the hamas website. Didn't improve my opinion of them.

[CitizenCindy]

Finkelstein's great. Thanks for uploading.

[7jerryv7]

Obama has the greatest influence on the future of the conflict between Isreal and Palestine. We should be focusing on him and making sure he sticks to his word.

We need to focus on the basics. Isreal has the right to exist without being the target of violence. Palestine has the right to exist without being the targets of violence. The Isreali Army should not use children as human shields. Hamas and the PLO should not use bombs to kill people.

This is the goal.

[aewester]

The goal is to end the occupation of Palestine and the siege of Gaza. Reduction of violence and suffering will come as a result of this.

Both countries must exist and be sovereign.

[7jerryv7]

That is what I said, but from a larger point of view.