Rapier & Dagger Stage Combat : Parries in Rapier Fencing

[Adanmska1234]

excellent class, i really want a teacher like you ;) im still a little slow

[OneMindAnyWeapon]

I should point out that this is only one version of stage combat, which comes in many shapes and forms. Some I very reality based and others far less so. There are stage combat forms that closely model historical forms, however as has been pointed out, it can not be totally based in reality as it is being used as a story telling tool.

[DenaturaXXX]

i agree with bansheemopar in 100% , this are parries used in saber fights and with rapier they kinda sucks :d, bc when u use rapier u block with dagger and then strike

[DarthObrin]

Ok, there seems to be some confusion about Parry 6 and 8. Parry 6 in stage combat is actually a parry against thrusts, and is the movement across the chest from Parry 4 to Parry 3. Parry 8 is in the same position as Parry 2 with the hand in supination.

[murrayro]

@DarthObrin Depends on the blade really. Parry 6 can either be what you said, which is primarily used when dealing with thrusts like the kind used with foil or epee. There is also a parry 6 that is the opposite of a parry 5, with the hand across the body, but the blade in the same position as parry 5. This is useful when parrying cuts to the head and you want to make a more powerful cut to your opponent's 3 position. Several teachers teach several things differently.

[DarthObrin]

@murrayro What I'm referring to (and what I think she's using in the video) is the French System used by The Society of American Fight Directors (SAFD). I don't claim to be an expert, but this is the same parry system they used when teaching us broadsword and shield so I'm fairly certain this is the standard for SAFD choreography.

[sidiagung]

Simple but fairly well done. Do more.

Blessings,

David

[bansheemopar]

The main problem with this video is, that she is wielding a moden fencing saber and not a rapier.

And all parries she presents are saber parriers not rapier parries.

This might be mainly because she is into stage-combat.

Stage combat is flashy and historical looking, but in fact not historical.

[nujabes7]

@bansheemopar so thats the definition of stage combat....so what is the title for real historical fencing?

[Damaskox]

Not bad.

[sypHYPE]

There actually is a parry 6. It's just like a parry 3, but you have wrist out instead of your knuckles. Also there is an 8th parry. It is just like Parry 2, but instead of being pronated, your hand is supinated. :) I just learned all of this in my rapier and dagger class a few days ago.

[murrayro]

@sypHYPE Correct, but there are other parries in 6 and 8 that work more for cuts than thrusts, which works better with what you are talking about. Parry 6, when dealing with cuts, is actually a parry that defends a cut to the head, like 5, only reversed, the hand across the body. The 8 parry in cuts defends the outside shoulder, but the tip of the blade is pointed towards the ground. These parries carry more weight when dealing with cuts, like I said, better for a cutting riposte.

[murrayro]

@sypHYPE The parry 5A that she talks about is actually the 6 parry for cuts. Sabre and foil/epee have different parries because they defend different techniques, but most of them are simple. The 6 parry you learned about, sypHYPE, is actually a beautiful parry to deflect an oncoming thrust because after the parry deflects your opponent's blade, you can snake your own blade over his and catch him offguard with a thrust to the high inside shoulder or chest.

[Foilsdown]

whats the point of the knife?

[TheBladeEdge]

this is ineffective against a greatsword, but useful against a katana.

[Ranziel1]

@TheBladeEdge It's ineffective against any edged weapon and the point of such defenses is so you couldn't be touched. A battle oriented defense like "absetzen" is likely going to make his sword touch you, even though he'd get a hole in the throat in the process. And that would be a point. Plus, you can't move to the side in sport fencing and many combat techniques rely on footwork. Bottom line, in combat fencing you don't learn to block without presenting a threat at the same time, like here.

[TheBladeEdge]

@Ranziel1 uh huh, but a greatsword is almost unblockable due to its weight and is 30-40 cm longer then a rapier. It would be much wiser to use a Serbian cavalry-type sword ( schiavona ) then a rapier. Its blade is wider and its hand guard is ideal for blocking slashes ^^ It was made for use against the Turks in the late 13 century when the Serbs helped the Byzantine empire defend its borders. Its probably a bit slower then a rapier but could easily shatter it, unless you block with your dagger

[Ranziel1]

@TheBladeEdge A greatsword (I'd assume we're talking doppelhander) is very much blockable if you receive the blow on the forte, it's quite impossible to shatter a sword, I believe they checked it on Mythbusters... as much as TV shows are poor for any historical evidence, they showed that a rapier snapped while springing back after recieveing a blow, which wouldn't happen if you block with the forte. Six pounds is not that much.

[murrayro]

@Ranziel1 You sound like you're into foil or epee, right? Sport fencing is merely a small portion of the bigger picture. The parries you speak of work more towards defending the thrust, and you do want to present a threat with your parry, it makes for a faster riposte. When considering the longsword or greatsword, the parries spoken of here do the trick. especially when you employ the second hand, but the weight of a greatsword makes it more difficult.

[Ranziel1]

@murrayro No, I'm into longsword, into historical fencing. You can very well defend against a cut while bringing your edge or point online. Zornhau and zornhau-ort are the examples of such techniques. We are taught that you must always keep the initiative, since defending against a blow without presenting a threat only opens up more openings for your opponent to attack.

[murrayro]

@Ranziel1 Ahh, very true, I know of what you speak of. Aren't there circumstances in which you can't present a threat right off the bat? I know some of them take a step or two off the line to bring your blade to bear on your target. Or do you consider the steps off-line as a part of that threat?

Either way, these are stage fighting parries and most of them are done wrong. lol

[Bladestar7]

You can find these same parries in Eskrima. Its very interesting.

[NewZealfighter]

@Bladestar7

Eskrima is Spanish for fencing so of course they have the same parries.

[Bladestar7]

@NewZealfighter Yep. The Philipines were a Spanish colony for a time. The Filipinos adapted some of their sword technqies for their blade fighting. thats why some of their language have spnish dialtecs. Spada Y Dagga. Arnis and so forth,

[tick911]

i thought there were 8 parries?

[scrawnyrapierguy]

Yes, these are stage moves for those of you unaware of the techniques used by later masters. Her parries are well suited to the stage, pretty and flamboyant.

If you're interested in using blades in combat... look up a group like WMA, ARMA, the SCA, or Adrian Empire

[Zaarlath]

Hi. I'm french and I'm fond of modern fencing but I also would like to learn all the techniques related to "rapier-like". (Modern sabre and rapier are like a same family, to me.)

Excepted for the "stage" moves, it's seems not really different than modern fencing techniques, but I still have some questions.

- Why is the "garde-stance" so low ? The rapier is horizontal, here.

- Is the stance of the opponent really existing in "real rapier" combat ? Is it usefull ? In wich situations ?

[mastercrowly]

would be cool if the world used blades instead of guns (except flintlocks and muskets)

[vodromanus]

shouldn't the parry 5 be on the eye level???

[pablofallenjedi]

yeah, warrior chicks are awesome!

[RedCrayonFace]

WOMEN WITH SWORDS

THERE IS A GOD

[acyanto]

Ahh. . . relax guys, she's having fun, after all this is theatrical. . .anything goes as long as it looks realistic right . . .??

[jbujko]

An olympic sabre and what seems to be a bayonet. And sabre parries. And the 6th parry named a 5a parry. Simply incompetent..

[RKGalery]

Really nice lesson but unless I am gravely mistaken (happens quite often) those parries do not really exist in XVII c. italian rapier systems ? They would be of little use in single tempo fencing plus - they are all for cuts which are of little importance in rapier anyway.

[drake919]

That is correct. These are modern fencing techniques, ill-suited to a rapier.

[Fughal]

You have to keep in mind, that this are Stage combat techniques and not historical fight techniques.

i am curious why you dont explain pary 6 and 8. Or are this only used by smallswords?

greetings

[RKGalery]

Fughal- I am sorry, I disagree. Either you have combat, or you have choreographed swordplay. If second- well, then there is no need (nor justification) to call it rapier fencing. It is not fencing in classical understanding of that term and it has little to do with rapier. Not to implicate such a play with arms is something worse- just very different by definition.

[Fughal]

So i have to understand, that you are a proud rapier fighter and doesnt like at all that out of that you can make stage combat aka theatrical combat with different techniques to show the audience a fight they can enjoy instead small and fast movements?

this text should not been seen as an attack sorry.

greetings

Fughal

[RKGalery]

Not really mate. I do enjoy tricky combat scenes as much as any other guy. Its just that using a tool in a way in which it was not intended to be used is not to be mistaken with original form of its usage. As example: If you will take boxing gloves and then use them for some generic moves or combinations taken from different martial arts you can make a splendind, jaw droping performance (as I believe author of this clip can using rapiers), but I do not think you will insist on calling it boxing

[PissedFechtmeister]

Parries 6 and 8 expose the forearm so aren't used in rapier (or sabre). In foil the arm isn't a target so 6 and 8 are common. In epee the bell is designed to protect the arm in 6 and 8 so you wouldn't use 2 or 3 in epee because those would expose the arm.

I've never heard parry 5A called that. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever heard a name for it. Is 5A a common name that I've somehow missed?

[Fughal]

Hi PissedFechtmeister,

5a and 5b are used in the rules of the BASSC. British Academy of Stage and Screen Combat. Different organisations have some different rules.. but the horizont of this guy up there called jbuiko is maybe not so broad as he himself thinks.

regards

[viperhalberd]

I'd block her with my weapon!

[tchillit]

@viperhalberd I'd fuck her too.