Rabbi Steve Greenberg: Trembling Before G-d

[trulymadnow]

I have deep sympathy for LGBT people, but to say that hearing peoples' stories will change Rabbis' interpretation of the verse is ludicrous. The verse and its interpretation is pretty clear cut.

[hross233]

imagine what it takes to twist what G-d has written to make it what you want it to mean. If this is true then its okay to murder a jew? its okay to lie? surely we can change the meaning to make it okay? Who are you fooling? Yourself. man makes a lie a truth. worse, he lies to himself. else why can't I change the scripture to do anything I want and change the truth into any thing I want. I can make the Torah to mean not for jews, i can make it mean whatever I want. whats next?

[Gullytale]

Vulnerable to the text and the text vulnerable to you. Well said and so very true. The 'learned' need a lot of teaching.

[Lotrfan99]

yashekoyach rabbi

[ILOVEMFEO]

i have a great deal of admiration for rabbi greenberg; he is not a pervert, in my view anyway, but an honest and brave man... i have read many of his articles and although i do not agree with everything he says (i am not orthodox), i still credit him with sufficient coherence, articulation and power of argument. if more rabbis were like rav greenberg, this world would be a more tolerant place for lgbt people and not these only!

beshalom

[prepstarr25]

your a pervert that's all there is to it. stop trying to pervert the world. and stop demonizing the rabbis.

[basselyrique]

@prepstarr25 It's thanks to people like you that I left religious observance and consider nowdays every "holy" scripture nothing but fairy tales.

[prepstarr25]

@basselyrique well your a fool. two men are not to be together this way. any other thought is a perversion of the bible, what can i say that is how it is written and how it is written is the reality , the fact essentially. by accepting homosexuality, you are punishing us all. it's a negative thing as the pope said. it's a disorder. it's not a morally accepted option and careful attention is needed for these people. we dont let retards do whatever we want so why homosexuality?

[GrowTheTruth]

@prepstarr25 Oh, look who it is. Of course, you're thumping your Bible over hear too! Why am I not surprized?

Christianity...is a joke. Plain and simple. Mankind used religion as a means to explain things that they could not comprehend. Homosexuality is in MANY species on Earth: black swans, gulls, lions, hyenas, giraffes, dolphins, dragonflies, primates, sheep, whiptail lizards, and more. The Bible also said that God created all of those animals and their instincts.

[GrowTheTruth]

@prepstarr25 You honestly think, when they wrote the Bible, that they realized how natural homosexuality is within the animal kingdom?

The Bible says that it was the forbiddin fruit that made Adam & Eve feel shame & embarassment of their bodies.

If you believe in the Bible, then you'll know that feeling shame for something created naturally by God was brought on by mankind's creation of false morality. There are many morals that people have today that defy nature & therefore God, darling.

[basselyrique]

@prepstarr25 The Bible (as well as any other so-called holy book) was written down by mortal men who claim their own ideas to be divine. Your point of view regarding retarded and homosexuals is actually very Hitlerian.

[prepstarr25]

@basselyrique The bible specifically states that thou shalt not lie with a man as one lies with a women. Leviticus 18:22. Hitler, was not about religion. There is no place for homosexuality in this world. Our g-d is not some person that lets you do whatever you want. It's looked as a he not a she. Finally, anyone that takes on a homosexual path is harming everyone, themselves, their friends and everyone that emcompasses them, I suggest to you, there is no light in a quest that is against nature.

[Gullytale]

@prepstarr25 I have not 'encompassed' anything. I am what I was created to be, and have spent years working in healthcare and education. Looking after the sick and dying, and helping children learn and learn well. You make God in your own image, judging, when you are specificallly warned againt this. Judge not that you be not judged, and YOU have judged me, when you know nothing about me. You are the one playing with fire, YOU are the one gonna get burned. Take heed :-)

[prepstarr25]

@Gullytale In the pope's words himself one should not allow homosexuality onto themselves but they shouldn't judge it on others. I do not promote your activities or your views but I have done my part to try and help you to bring you back from the lost and dead. May you and all others return steadfastly to a pure and healthy path.

[Gullytale]

@prepstarr25 I am not lost, or dead, and don't need your help. I'd really like to know what 'activities' you are referring to ? Do you know me ? Are you some pervy voyeur ? Your type usually are. Don't hold your breath waiting to see anything though, or you're likely to turn blue, then black, then 'lost and dead' :-) I bet I live a 'purer' life than you do, or ever have. Who do you think you are, judging me, you hypocrite ?!!! Preppy, understand this. I DO NOT want to share your 'heaven'.

[Daj2009]

Love bring you closer to G-D,but hate thy brothers&sisters taken you farther away. Love G-D with all of your heart,soul & might. Love thy neighbor as thyself or Who love G-D who never sees and hate thy brother whom had sees daily.

Don`t judge one another least you`ll be judge, you`re not G-D.

[prepstarr25]

your a disgusting sick pervert!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nakedBison69]

so very true

[silentfades]

such a good man

to speak such truth

many blessings brother

marc in nyc

[johnvr99]

The meaning of Leviticus is perfectly clear. Instead of playing irrational mind games, the courageous thing to do is to reject it as primitve and irrelevant.

[kelgilliam]

I agree. When modern morality and reason rejects religious dogma, its time to let it go.

[myp410up]

Can you read it in the original? If not, don't claim that you know what it means. Besides, it's a creation of ignorant nomadic Palestinian tribes from 3 millennia ago.

[nakedBison69]

Actually, the Torah was dictated by G-d to Moses on Mount Sinai in front of several million Jewish people. myp410up is an ignorant nomad

[myp410up]

I am neither ignorant nor a nomad and know what I'm talking about. You just quote the traditional line about the origins of the torah but cannot produce a scintilla of EVIDENCE that can be scientifically corroborated to save your life. You cannot provide evidence for the existence of a Sky Daddy. Nor can you produce any artifacts of any sort that substantiate the fictitious Exodus from Egypt and the revelation of this stupid, ridiculous collection of fables known as the torah.

[nakedBison69]

myp410up the ignorant nomad has no idea what he is talking about. myp410 just quotes the socialist line about this Messiah, Adolf Obama, without producing a scintilla of evidence that can be corroborated to save his life. myp410up cannot provide evidence for socialism, nor can myp410up produce any evidence of any sort that substantiates the fictitious claim that Adolf Obama is the Real Messiah. myp410up believes in the stupid, ridiculous collection of fables known as the Communist Manifesto

[myp410up]

You shouldn't make such a public display of your ignorance, arrogance and all encompassing foolishness.

[nakedBison69]

myp410up makes such a public display of his ignorance, arrogance and all encompassing foolishness

[nakedBison69]

johnVr99 is primitive and irrelevant

[bearcub410]

thank you , all books of religion no matter what religion it is were written by men . they are books sometimes very wise but other times make no sense ,i say take what you need and leave the rest . we are all gods children

[Arnon7777]

This is perverse.

[swim3330]

the Rabbi stated, "the very shape and meaning of the verse will change". Sounds interesting, however one can examine other laws such as adultery, bestiality and even Kashrut. Our Rabbi's of Blessed memory have interpreted and explained these laws. However, those laws have not and will not change. Jews will not be allowed to go out and eat pork no matter how many are doing it.

[koroigetsuga]

The Torah is quite clear on homosexuality. You can't be orthodox and accept homosexuality. Unless ofcourse you view the torah as a human creation (an indeed there is abundant evidence for it being written by various authors not just Moses despite traditional views)but then you are gonna have to join liberal movements in Judaism such as reconstructionist or reform

[Jakemmx]

I find it refreshing to see how well versed and progressive the Jewish people seem to be, at least from my online experience, about their religion. I am surrounded by Christians who seem to know little more about the bible than a few select phrases to put down others and boost their own ego ... and I can say that I find it disheartening in the least.

How would you compare, if you know, the attitudes over homosexuality in Jewish populations to those in Christian populations?

[msumedanthro]

"I realized that our task was to take texts and give them faces." Thank you for your words.

[elanaadler]

brother,

you are truly something beautiful in abrahamic words

[prepstarr25]

@elanaadler Not at all this is sickening.

[Gullytale]

@prepstarr25 What is even more sickening, and telling, about you Prep, is your profile. And that cRAP you call 'music' is the most telling of all. I wish you ALL the best in this life, and the next one.

But seriously - I don't want to share that place with you, cause honestly - and again I mean no real dis respect - for me, your 'heaven' would be my hell. Bit of a dilema there. And I know now, from ur profile again - that indeed I do live a far 'purer' life in that sense that you :)

[prepstarr25]

@Gullytale The torah (old testament) clearly prohibits homosexuality. The torah prohibits live and let live mentality. All Abrahamic traditions support the bible. The world generally supports the bible as well as it is reflective of the reality. I follow the bibles your lifestyle is against the bible and you are trying to rationalize it by your religion the religion of homosexuality itself, the only one in the world that preaches it as an ultimate lifestyle choice, despicable and its your loss.

[hineni53]

@prepstarr25 If homosexuality is a choice then turn gay then straight then gay etc...abracadabra....

[prepstarr25]

@hineni53 Yes but I mean imagine you could also murder someone than you decide not to murder someone, etc.. abracadabra...

[snarge]

I personally don't like the verse either, but to imply that their minds would change when you put a face on the verse is frankly, a little too optimistic and modern for the tora.

[nouse4labels]

I've always considered same sex prohibition in Leviticus to be against Idolity; Ritual Sex was a common form of worship to pagen gods in the area at that time. As a Conservative Jew, I don't think HaShem would deny me because I've found a way in my heart to love, even if it is with another man.

[prepstarr25]

@nouse4labels yes he will. the soul is meant to be completed with one man and one woman. and it is specifically and clearly understood that a man cannot lie with another man as he would with one woman. so you are speaking against the bible specifically. The words were very clear and there is no means to pervert this. Homosexuality is a sin, you do it you are going against g-ds ways and you will suffer.

[GrowTheTruth]

@prepstarr25 After all, it was the Devil who tempted Adam & Eve to eat the fruit & that's in the Devil's favor. After they ate it, they allowed the knowledge of sin's existance into their hearts. If something was created by God, is it a sin? No! It was the fruit that the Devil had mankind eat that brought on these feelings of shame.

Also, you might say "animals have no souls". Well, the Devil created "pride" too. It is this pride that makes man believe that he is above his fellow creatures.

[tangerinejew]

I am a gay, Orthodox Jew. Your message seems to be that if the Rabbis would meet enough gays, they would let us have sex with men despite the Torah's prohibition of it. I find that viewpoint naive in the extreme. How many other of the Torah's prohibitions do you believe that the Rabbis would "reinterpret" to accommodate those who desire to transgress them? The verse you discuss doesn't demonize us as gays or prohibit intimacy between men. It classifies a particular act as a prohibition.

[snarge]

tangerinejew is 100% right.

you act as if these rabbis, who are likely brilliant, have never once in their lives met or known personally a gay man. they would not change their minds or even reevaluate the verse upon meeting a million gay men (though what a day that would be!), as I'm certain they believe the word and this verse to be much more divine than personal testimony.