Bei solchen Filmen fällt es hart, diese zu befürworten oder dagegen zu sprechen. Einerseits ist es wichtig die Vergangenheit zu verarbeiten,andererseits entsteht Hass für die "Bösen" im Film. Vielleicht ein Grund, ein Schulfach einzuführen, in dem solche Filme analysiert werden. Die Facher deutsch und Philosophie sind unzureichend, denn schließlich werden Kinder bzw. Jugendliche heutzutage von Filmen mehr beeinflusst als von Büchern.
Wenn man nur mal einsehen würde, dass nach diesem Krieg schlicht das Böse - das Böse besiegt hat. lala
Auch heute werden Frauen im Krieg vergewaltigt.
Es wäre aber nur dann ein Verbrechen für das man bezahlen müsste wenn man den Krieg verlieren würde. Bekanntlich definiert der “Sieger” was ein Verbrechen war bzw. ist.
Das Buch ist schön danke Ihnen sehr Frau uns zu dieser Tragödie zu teilen. Meine Gedanken sind bei dir Frau und alle anderen, wie Sie gehen immer markiert dieser Zeit. Das deutsche Volk litt furchtbar.
@21KAVLAS I'm not defending it, Its just that because of movies like this in 300 years they will teach children at schools that the USSR attacked Germany and killed their children and raped their woman, and that's why Germany retailiaded and went on a killing and raping spree across the USSR making the USSR having most of the losses because they were so weak and uncivilised, still the USSR numbers won and they took over Eastern Europe while western Europe was saved from the grap of the USSR.
Anyone who is not a mindless idiot knows that this movie takes place in 1945. War was at it's end and Germany was weak. How could they retaliate with Hitler dead and no soldiers left? Your argument that they will teach this in 300 years is absurd. It's just a movie. History can't be taught with movies only.
Oooh this movie made it all clear to me, so apparently the Germans were the victims of WW2. When the Germans went to war their woman were cheering for them, go get those untermenschen! Never suspecting that their was even little possibility that these mostly Slavic untermenschen would defeat the ubermensch and retailiate. If they weren't so full of ignorance they would be angry at Hitler instead of the Soviets, who were taking revenge for their losses. Try to imagine the position of USSR soldier
@21KAVLAS Difference in class between these people perhaps? You're such a moron. Yes there was a difference, one type of people was attacked and every person lost at least one family member and fought so their children would live. The other type was never attacked in history, and came in to war when most of the German army was defeated, taking on 10% of the German army with much greater odds than the Germans, so they could get a little of the honor as well. Even so they raped raped woman.
@rusgreek Why not walk up to a German child and blow its head off then rape its mother ? They deserved it right ? Does that make sense to you ? You can be bitter for what Germany did, but to justify rape and murder is disgusting
@Foxtrot262 no nobody deserved it, why are you twisting my words are you American or something? I just want for people to know that the Germans went to the USSR and blew of the heads of children and raped their mother, they didn't even need to justify rape and murder they just went in the USSR and did it on their own initiative. Every Soviet soldier that raped a German woman took revenge, if the revenge was at least fully taken then there was no Germans left, so the USSR army was even merciful.
@rusgreek I'm Canadian, please dont call me American. Most of what happened in the USSR concerning war crimes was not done buy the German army persay. It was committed by SS Einzatsgruppen or Gestapo or anti-partisan units.
@trzesio in my country you dont find fucked up fundamentalists who cant learn from history or change their point of view. and you also wont find people who cant speak english properly!!!!
@WhitePolishPatriot : Nie jesteś żadnym patriotą tylko idiotą jeśli piszesz takie rzeczy. Przynosisz wstyd Polsce i Polakom. To co wypisujesz to zwykły szowinizm a nie patriotyzm. Ruscy byli wtedy nie lepsi od Niemców, dlatego chwalenie ich uważam za haniebne.
@trzesio Po prostu odegrali się za zbrodnie wehrmachtu na ziemiach radzieckich . A ty nie jesteś od tego aby mnie oceniać. szowinizm ? no można tak powiedzieć, bo ruscy też nie byli święci a szwaby niech nie myślą, że byli lepsi. nie tylko oni zostali tak potraktowani, ale im się przynajmniej należało.
>German soldiers raped women in ocupied countries , too
Who matters? That`s normal for their civilization, when higher nations take women of enemy. I remember an article in pro-western newspaper about Vietnam. There were wrote "american soldiers became fathers of vietnamese children very often" - like it`s normal. Nothing bad. But if they talk about Germany-45: "rapists! barbarians! clock-lovers! they raped every woman 8-80 years old!".
Very clean, especially in Stalingrad, or in Moscow parade of 17 july 1944 :)
>He/she is not our friend
I agree, with that kind of friends enemies are unnecesarry.
Whats your opinion about Russians in Polish land? Was it liberation, or changing of same kind of occupations? Should Poland thank Russia and ex-USSR for liberation remember of Polish-Soviet brotherhood, or blame for occupation and Katyn?
>"My mother was 19 years old and lived in the British Zone of Germany in 1945."
"I live in Berlin and was a nurse for old people."
Of course, that`s great evidences. But tell me, why that 'rape-factor of Soviet army' weren`t used in Cold War? When wintesses were younger... Only today, when USSR is no more, and wintesses are too old, there were began a propaganda campaigh against Russia.
And, I think you know that, rape was a crime in Soviet army. Punishment - shooting.
Did he wrote about rapes in "Das Echolot"? I see that it was after Cold war.
>You can also read the article ... by Antony Beevor
I read his book. What evidences does we see there? 'one berlinian doctor said, that there were raped 130 thous women'. Statistics about one hospital, where in 1945 fathers of 12 of 237 children was wrote as Russians, and in 1946 - 20 of 567.
And... That`s all? Not much to prove his number of 2 millions of raped German women.
@broadleygreen >There has also been a German documentary. Where else? I see, how poor is it. Russian archives also had many documentary, how Germans killed their civilians to blame Russians. >the Poles took children as slaves. As... Slaves? >"Poland" Does it means, that you never recognize an existence of Polish state? >several pogroms against German minorities Hm... Does anti-Jew Nuremberg laws and Cristal night meant, that Germany should be invaded? >Posen Posen?Poznan was in Poland in 1919-39
Quote: "Russians didn't want war" - but why the hell had the germans won the first attack against russia? German forces weren't as big as russians, the germans won the first strike, because russias troops were also in "attack"-positions and not in the defensive. (sorry for bad english, but I do hope it is understandable)
@VChapaev you stalinistic liar! dont try to deny the soviet crimes in germany. there are millions of witnesses of the soviet terror. your "heroes" has been bloody childfuckers and mass murders. nothing else. your a pathologic stalinist afangulo!
Your antysoviet rhetoric is enchanting. Of course, according to you, that`s Soviet soldiers were "bloody childfickers", not German and axis ones on Soviet land.
But we`ve one problem: during cold war "democratic world" prefered to silence about it. Only today, when most of real wintess are dead - antyrussian propaganda are proceed.
Only sick people like nazis could made all crimes on Soviet land. Ordinary Soviet soldier`s heard was absolving and hasn`t any abilities for revenge.
@VChapaev go and read what lew kopolew and aleksandr solzhenitsyn wrote about the soviet crimes. e.g. prussian nights: The little daughters on the mattress, Dead. How many have been on it A platoon, a company perhaps? A girls been turned into a woman, A woman turned into a corpse.
In first, nazi soldiers killed 10 millions of Soviet civilians min, and 2 millions of POWs. Every 4 Belorussian dead.
In second, that number of 2,5 mln are sucked from a finger. There was no terror. Even during famine in USSR, Soviets sent grain to Germany. Do you feel the difference between nazi attitudes to conquerred nations, and Soviet attitude?
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@163linker The difference is SOME Red Army soldiers may have commited some crimes..the same as in any war..for such big armies (or any group of men) there will always be 1% who are bad..
But...the fact is that whole Nazi regime was trying to kill every single jew and slav in europe...without exception.
@163linker sure - but also the soviet army must be blamed for the war crimes in germany. for 2.5 million killed civilians and millions of raped woman. asnd for the elemination of some ethnical groups. so this fuckin´parade is a parade for mass rapists, murders and occupants. never forget the crimes of papa stalin!!!!
>"so this fuckin´parade is a parade for mass rapists"
No, that`s not true. Nazi army invaded our motherland, and Red Army defended it, and killed nazi beast. Soviet soldiers never needed revenge on innocent civilians.
@163linker sure! stalin was a good papa to you! an putin is a good papa for you today. thats the russian system - just having good papas showing you the view outlook. dont be free - thats wrong for russian people. never think by your self. thats also wrong for you. so just love your system. NEVER THINK BY YOUR OWN! this ist dangeus!!!!! (in russia)
wann rafft ihr verwichsten hauptschüler das endlich mal.du bist einfach das kind deiner eltern.. scheiß egal aus welchem land, und ... wphnst du 100 meter neben der grenze bist du a wirst du 100 metzer entfernt geboren bist du b.. und das ändert was an deinem verhalten oder was???
was für ein stuss !! sie haben nicht die frauen vergewaltigt um denen das heimzuzahlen weil deren frauen vergewaltigt worden sind.
das ist einfach der trieb der männer und krieg ist ausnahmezustand, da kommt dieser eben durch, egal aus welcher schicht aus welchem land. in fremden ländern kann man das ausleben ohne je dafür büßen zu müssen.
@streetraver83 ach so lautet die Ausrede für DIESES Verbrechen....na, ihr Männer machts euch ja ganz schön leicht....joa, wenn krieg is dann gehn halt die Triebe mit uns durch, könn wir auch nix für,...."OH EINE RUNDE MITTLEID!" Ganz "normal"...die Anführungszeichen machens auch nicht besser! so was schamloses!
@Vodkin197s Doch doch ALLE! Die Englander und Frazosen haben Österreich und Tschechjslovokei verschenkt und verraten. Polen hat zusammen mit Deutschen Tschechien geteilt und geheime Pakte mit Nazi-Deutschland abgeschlossen übrigens genau so wie England und Frankreich. Stalin hat mit Hitler Osteuropa geteilt und besetzt...
If you like this movie, you should read the book, it's amazing! I want to see the movie. I'm curious, but obviously it's not the same (the relationship between she and the military man never happend... it's just for give some dramatism to the film...
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: a part of "prussian nights" The little daughters on the mattress, Dead. How many have been on it A platoon, a company perhaps? A girls been turned into a woman, A woman turned into a corpse. It's all come down to simple phrases: Do not forget! Do not forgive! Blood for blood! A tooth for a tooth!
The little daughters on the mattress, Dead. How many have been on it A platoon, a company perhaps? A girls been turned into a woman, A woman turned into a corpse. It's all come down to simple phrases: Do not forget! Do not forgive! Blood for blood! A tooth for a tooth!
i think it's not necessary to compare which country was the most cruel,German or Russia.the both were terribly cruel and did terrible things.and why? because of stupid reason -- want to be the owner of whole world.i do hate this statement. and no one was better or worse in the world war two.
And it also irritates me this is one of only a handful of movies showing what happend to the germans, yet we have 1000's of films about what happend to the jews...wrong..
I understand your point of view.But I don't know wheter you know any women being raped at war and the circumstances. I know some within my neighbourhood. The youngest one among them was 13 when she was raped by a bunch of russians. If you understand german,look at the youtube-video of Nemmersdorf.The man in the interview had to investigate the massacre there.A raped woman was nailed with her hands at a stapledoor and raped by 30 Russians.During the interview she urgently wanted to be shot ..
Absolutely a nonsense-dialog that no German would survive if the Russians had done to the Germans what they did to the Russians.
How else could you explain all the rapings outside of Germany, i.e. Hungary.They even raped the wife of the swedish embassador in Budapest. It's typical for postwar-films like that to blame the victims for waht happened to them,otherwise it wouldn't sell in other countries.
Without such self-accuses, this film would not be financially supported by Tax-money.
@gosuc Spot on gosuc, Ime English but get fed up with movies almost justifying what the german people had done to them... but like you say, it wouldn't have got the funding..
@163linker Not all the "west" believes these stories. They are just part of the process to rehabilitate Nazism in the mainland of Europe... Like they call our RAF pilots murderers and war criminals...but deny that their Waffen SS every killed any civilians etc..
its a standard phrase in Germay betwenn the filmmakers when it comes to the WW2 time movies. Otherwise they got no funds and no right to public the movie...so..You will find that phrase in every german made movie...in different variations of course.
The Russians had the choice in the Nuernberg trials to punnish the responsible persons.Its clear under this circumstances, that only members of the Axix were to be accused.
Some of the film-dialog is pure propagand(i.e. the Russians didn't want war). They attacked Finnland and Poland and "swallowed" the baltic countries.What they did with the Polish in Katyn is well known. No, they were nothing else but armoured rapists under the influence of Ilja Ehrenburg.They were definetively not liberators.
>What they did with the Polish in Katyn is well known.
I think you never heard about Intelligenzaction AB and operation "Tannenberg". Katyn camps with polish oficers were conquerred by Germans in july 1941, and then Germans killed them.
>No, they were nothing else but armoured rapists
Do you agree with me, that it`s so shamefull - to lose the war to untermenchen "armoured rapists"?
Let`s look on the source of Marha Hillers diary. That diary was published in 1954 by Kurt Marek. Did he have an originals of diary? Kurt said, that his source was PRINTED text.
The major she 'falls in love with' (which is not really true, even less in the book) is none of her rapists (she had been raped several times before she met him).
Once after a rape she decides that "a wolf must come in here to keep the wolves of my body", as she wrote in her diary. This means that she was going to meet an officer of a rank as high as possible, and so she met the major. The movie shows that there was more than just black and white. Not all were rapists.
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if your sense of honour admits that a woman may act such way, i've nothing more to add.
some other germans were honorful... the woman who hanged herself (start of the movie) and the man who commited suicid with pills toward the end of the movie.
The movie described rather German women as whores than Soviets as rapist animals.
Your sense of honour seems to be rather mortal. Those people who earn your respect cannot benefit from it at all because they are DEAD.
The man who takes pills deserves rather pity than respect because he lost the courage to face life an to be a husband for his wife an a father for his children.
If you want to know something about my sense of honour: It does NOT admit a husband reproaching or leaving his raped wife nor a father thrownig his raped daughter out or force her to commit suicide.
He did not derisively say: "that's only a few minutes ha, ha..." but rather "these few minutes, what do they matter?" - compared to the atrocities he has already seen before, he means (as mentioned later, he had to see his wife being hanged by Germans).
That time he had little understanding for the women's hardships - but later his mind changed.
By the way, the sentence "she had sex with passion with the gypsy" sounds rather racist to me, and I have no respect for racism.
what is even more disturbing, like if this (these) woma(e)n hadn't suffered enough, physically, psychologically, moreover to have been forced to some psychological enduring choices, is to see how they have just been considered with contemptuous indignation when the diary was first published 15 years after the end of war, with no psychological understanding whatsoever from their contemporaries.
It was scheduled to play at a local art/indie theatre, but they were unable to get the film..it will be released on dvd on 10 Nov,2009...i read the book, and it was very moving and very well written..
Maybe it will be released on dvd on 10 nov 2009 where you leave but I don't think it will be available in France since it hadn't been showed in the cinema T.T :'(
I read the book too and i'm reading " the fall of berlin "
If someone - a family father - kills and rapes persons, you can only do justice by punishing HIM (unfortunately, many Nazi criminals were not even prosecuted).
If you kill his wife or son and rape his daughter, this has nothing to do with justice but is simply a brutal crime.
You shouldn't deliberatedly (?) misunderstand my words!
Considering the context, you'll immediately see that I strictly speak about what German war crimes and the Holocaust (two strictly different things, by the way, because Holocaust is something very Nazi-specific) mean for the rapes and murders on those German civilians who personally had nothing to do with it. You might say "the had cheered Hitler". Yes, many did. But most did not cheer Holocaust, if they knew about it at all.
Don't be lucridous! I never affirmed that Nazis had been monsters from mars or elswhere. Of course they were from inner German (or Austrian or some other ethnic German) society - and, by the way, there were similar political movements in almost entire Europe that time.
But: German was not equal to Nazi, and not even Nazi was equal to Nazi (Perhaps you know John Raabe who protected many Chinese pple from Japanese massacres).
The Nazi crimes may be avenged on the committers themselves...
...(f*ck*n' limit of letters!) but not on compatriots nor family members of them selected at random. I don't deny Nazi crimes, I loathe any Ideology which promotes such or similar crimes.
But neither German war crimes nor even Holocaust justifies the rapes, let alone the torments and murders on civilians who had just had the misfortune to grow up under such a regime. Most people are not heroes, especially not moral heroes, and the Nazis were both brutal and smart in brainwashing people.
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yeah rapes were terrible but i think all the crimes committed by the soviets in germany helped the germans understand the pain and suffering their government caused in ww2
I think this was a rather inept way of teaching the Germans lessons about the pain their government had caused. It's more likely that the experience of victimhood overlayed the consciousness of having believed in a mass murderer.
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Mich (m, 40, seit 18 Jahren Single ) interessiert - warum hat es der Hitler geschafft, daß sich tausende deutsche Frauen haben sexuell "vergewaltigen" lassen innerhalb eines Jahres -- und warum habe ich es in 25(!!) Jahren nicht einmal geschafft eine einzige deutsche Frau zu einer Verabredung einzuladen !!??
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Der Sarkasmus ist unangebracht.
Wie Sie vielleicht bemerkt haben, habe ich meine Meinung längst revidiert:
Will jemand eine Familie gründen, leuchtet mir der Sinn einer Eheschließung auch ohne die geringste Begeisterung für Sex natürlich unmittelbar ein.
Das möchten Sie bitte zur Kenntnis nehmen, wenn Ihnen wirklich an Diskussion und Überzeugung liegt und nicht nur daran, mich auf der Grundlage eines älteren Statements, das ich heute so nicht mehr schreiben würde, zu verdammen.
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Wer eine solche Frage stellt, hängt Freundschaft ziemlich niedrig - viel zu niedrig! In geistiger oder seelischer Hinsicht kann eine wirklich enge Freundschaft eine wesentlich intimere Beziehung sein als manche intime Beziehung:
Einem wirklich guten Freund oder einer wirklich guten Freundin vertraut man Manches an, das man selbst dem eigenen Lebenspartner nicht ohne Weiteres auf die Nase binden würde.
Insbesondere ist Freundschaft nicht durch Gefühle wie Eifersucht belastet.
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Dieses Argument ist aber ein eher praktisches, für das restriktive Einwanderungsbestimmungen verantwortlich sind und wo es längst nicht nur um Gefühle geht.
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Wenn zwei Menschen mit sehr unterschiedlichen sexuellen Neigungen zusammen sind, kommt halt immer mindestens einer zu kurz, und das macht solche Partnerschaften problematisch.
Wenn zwei zueinander passen, hat niemand etwas dagegen einzuwenden zu haben oder eine solche Beziehung für minderwertig zu halten.
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Quark!
Wenn jemand mehrere Personen gleichzeitig heiratet (egal, ob hetero- homo- oder asexuell), DER ist polygam - wie unlängst eine Britin, die gleichzeitig fünfmal verheiratet gewesen sein soll und dafür auf Bewährung verknackt wurde, weil sie das natürlich heimlich und illegal gemacht hat.
Wer hingegen Freundschaften, aber keine klassischen Zweierbeziehungen hat, ist weder Polygam noch "untreu".
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Ich versuche mich weder herauszureden, noch spreche ich irgendjemandem ein Recht auf Ehe oder Zweierbeziehung ab, egal ob hetero- homo- oder asexuell.
Wenn zwei Leute heiraten wollen, sollen sie das machen und brauchen sich nicht darum zu scheren, ob ich den Sinn einer solchen Verbindung verstehe oder nicht.
Wenn ich apodiktisch ein Dogma verkündet hätte wie "Ohne Sexualität hat Ehe keinen Sinn", hätten Sie vielleicht Recht; das ist indes nicht der Fall.
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Was hat die Frage, warum jemand eine eheähnliche Beziehung eingeht, der sich aus Sex nichts macht, und ob da eine enge Freundschaft nicht die bessere Art Beziehung wäre, mit Menschenrechten oder deren Geringschätzung zu tun?
Natürlich ist nichts dagegen einzuwenden, wenn BEIDE Partner sich nichts draus machen, aber ich halte es für unfair, jemaden, der das anders sieht, via Treueversprechen zu lebenslanger Enthaltsamkeit zu verpflichten.
Hure! Sie sollten sich in den Kopf schießen!
buchalter1 3 weeks ago
Yay Nina Hoss :)
BlueBerryFairy1 2 months ago
Лапотна немита кацапня і тут свою маячню несе про "руссскаго салдата"...
Такийх фільмів потрібно знімати більше — показувати людям, яке кацапи дике плем'я!
stopchanskyy 4 months ago
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Wie heißt die Trailermusik? Suche schon seit Jahren. Die Musik von Wojciech Kilar habe ich rausgehört aber die am Anfang meine ich!!
MrAngemau 4 months ago
Und ich (deutscher Mann, 42 ) habe es in 25(!) noch nicht einmal geschafft, eine einzige junge deutsche "Frau" zu küssen.
Rain2103 4 months ago
If the Germans could not to drown whole World in blood, they will seeking to drown him with their tears.
Columnsl 6 months ago
@Columnsl what a a twat you are ..
luvpump1 4 months ago
@luvpump1 Some lamers should cure own stupid brain
Columnsl 4 months ago
I know it sounds weard now. But if I lived at that time, I would have killed all germans.
faenjegerkul 7 months ago
In this movie the beard old caucasian soldier is chechen?
citizen112ify 10 months ago
Bei solchen Filmen fällt es hart, diese zu befürworten oder dagegen zu sprechen. Einerseits ist es wichtig die Vergangenheit zu verarbeiten,andererseits entsteht Hass für die "Bösen" im Film. Vielleicht ein Grund, ein Schulfach einzuführen, in dem solche Filme analysiert werden. Die Facher deutsch und Philosophie sind unzureichend, denn schließlich werden Kinder bzw. Jugendliche heutzutage von Filmen mehr beeinflusst als von Büchern.
3tastudent 10 months ago 2
Русский солдат - ОСВОБОДИТЕЛЬ! Людей насиловавших женщин тоже можно понять, они мстили за своих родных! Русский солдат - НЕ ЗВЕРЬ!
RusstainRammsteinRUS 10 months ago
hihi sehr lustig der Film.
Wenn man nur mal einsehen würde, dass nach diesem Krieg schlicht das Böse - das Böse besiegt hat. lala
Auch heute werden Frauen im Krieg vergewaltigt.
Es wäre aber nur dann ein Verbrechen für das man bezahlen müsste wenn man den Krieg verlieren würde. Bekanntlich definiert der “Sieger” was ein Verbrechen war bzw. ist.
HermannWillie90 11 months ago
This movie was banned in cuba
folladordeprostis 1 year ago
Ist a shame all of this film is a act of manipulatión of the diary...
and attempt to justify the rapes,, i recomended to buy the book and let off this film,,
dieser Film ist ein Scheiß;
AdmiralBlasdeLezo 1 year ago
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chlodwigclovis 1 year ago
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Das Buch ist schön danke Ihnen sehr Frau uns zu dieser Tragödie zu teilen. Meine Gedanken sind bei dir Frau und alle anderen, wie Sie gehen immer markiert dieser Zeit. Das deutsche Volk litt furchtbar.
France
chlodwigclovis 1 year ago
I still do not know how you can try and defend rape? Killing
21KAVLAS 1 year ago
@21KAVLAS I'm not defending it, Its just that because of movies like this in 300 years they will teach children at schools that the USSR attacked Germany and killed their children and raped their woman, and that's why Germany retailiaded and went on a killing and raping spree across the USSR making the USSR having most of the losses because they were so weak and uncivilised, still the USSR numbers won and they took over Eastern Europe while western Europe was saved from the grap of the USSR.
rusgreek 1 year ago
@rusgreek
Anyone who is not a mindless idiot knows that this movie takes place in 1945. War was at it's end and Germany was weak. How could they retaliate with Hitler dead and no soldiers left? Your argument that they will teach this in 300 years is absurd. It's just a movie. History can't be taught with movies only.
dondondokken 11 months ago
@rusgreek
dondondokken 11 months ago
Oooh this movie made it all clear to me, so apparently the Germans were the victims of WW2. When the Germans went to war their woman were cheering for them, go get those untermenschen! Never suspecting that their was even little possibility that these mostly Slavic untermenschen would defeat the ubermensch and retailiate. If they weren't so full of ignorance they would be angry at Hitler instead of the Soviets, who were taking revenge for their losses. Try to imagine the position of USSR soldier
rusgreek 1 year ago
@rusgreek
Yes these women were victims of world war II aswell. They were at the mercy of the victors and got rapped over and over again.
How come the US and British forces did not commit these type of rapes? A diffrence in class between these twotypes of people perhaps.
21KAVLAS 1 year ago
@21KAVLAS Difference in class between these people perhaps? You're such a moron. Yes there was a difference, one type of people was attacked and every person lost at least one family member and fought so their children would live. The other type was never attacked in history, and came in to war when most of the German army was defeated, taking on 10% of the German army with much greater odds than the Germans, so they could get a little of the honor as well. Even so they raped raped woman.
rusgreek 1 year ago
@rusgreek there was too much hatred on eastern front which we will never understand.
petrwarry1972 1 year ago
@rusgreek Why not walk up to a German child and blow its head off then rape its mother ? They deserved it right ? Does that make sense to you ? You can be bitter for what Germany did, but to justify rape and murder is disgusting
Foxtrot262 1 year ago
@Foxtrot262 no nobody deserved it, why are you twisting my words are you American or something? I just want for people to know that the Germans went to the USSR and blew of the heads of children and raped their mother, they didn't even need to justify rape and murder they just went in the USSR and did it on their own initiative. Every Soviet soldier that raped a German woman took revenge, if the revenge was at least fully taken then there was no Germans left, so the USSR army was even merciful.
rusgreek 1 year ago
@rusgreek I'm Canadian, please dont call me American. Most of what happened in the USSR concerning war crimes was not done buy the German army persay. It was committed by SS Einzatsgruppen or Gestapo or anti-partisan units.
Foxtrot262 1 year ago
fack rusia
SNIPERfrend 1 year ago
Ive got a nuke
1bradrichardson 1 year ago
GO Russia!, Go Russia!
julioaltamirano 1 year ago
Primitive Russians!
ferko0105 1 year ago
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good job russian brothers ! fuck germans!
WhitePolishPatriot 1 year ago
@WhitePolishPatriot fuck you, bitch
TheMarshallFan 1 year ago 5
@TheMarshallFan shut up german faggot
WhitePolishPatriot 1 year ago
@WhitePolishPatriot well then shut up polish faggot and return my damn car
TheMarshallFan 1 year ago
@TheMarshallFan return my ancestral property you fucking thief. germans must die! stupid pigs
WhitePolishPatriot 1 year ago
@TheMarshallFan : In my country you not find your car because amercan cars is big shits.
trzesio 1 year ago
@trzesio in my country you dont find fucked up fundamentalists who cant learn from history or change their point of view. and you also wont find people who cant speak english properly!!!!
TheMarshallFan 1 year ago
@WhitePolishPatriot : Nie jesteś żadnym patriotą tylko idiotą jeśli piszesz takie rzeczy. Przynosisz wstyd Polsce i Polakom. To co wypisujesz to zwykły szowinizm a nie patriotyzm. Ruscy byli wtedy nie lepsi od Niemców, dlatego chwalenie ich uważam za haniebne.
trzesio 1 year ago
@trzesio Po prostu odegrali się za zbrodnie wehrmachtu na ziemiach radzieckich . A ty nie jesteś od tego aby mnie oceniać. szowinizm ? no można tak powiedzieć, bo ruscy też nie byli święci a szwaby niech nie myślą, że byli lepsi. nie tylko oni zostali tak potraktowani, ale im się przynajmniej należało.
WhitePolishPatriot 1 year ago
@SANARIA7
Thanks for answers.
163linker 1 year ago
@SANARIA7
>German soldiers raped women in ocupied countries , too
Who matters? That`s normal for their civilization, when higher nations take women of enemy. I remember an article in pro-western newspaper about Vietnam. There were wrote "american soldiers became fathers of vietnamese children very often" - like it`s normal. Nothing bad. But if they talk about Germany-45: "rapists! barbarians! clock-lovers! they raped every woman 8-80 years old!".
163linker 1 year ago
@SANARIA7
>Germans as" clean " nation
Very clean, especially in Stalingrad, or in Moscow parade of 17 july 1944 :)
>He/she is not our friend
I agree, with that kind of friends enemies are unnecesarry.
Whats your opinion about Russians in Polish land? Was it liberation, or changing of same kind of occupations? Should Poland thank Russia and ex-USSR for liberation remember of Polish-Soviet brotherhood, or blame for occupation and Katyn?
pozdrowienia z Rosji.
163linker 1 year ago
@SANARIA7
>You're liar
Not me, I just cytated or german friend.
>Germany supported by Soviet Union
Only never was supported. USSR decided to enter Eastern Poland, because polsih army lost the war, and to prevent Germans there.
163linker 1 year ago
Comment removed
163linker 1 year ago
ein guter Film!
86Volker 1 year ago
Comment removed
broadleygreen 1 year ago
@broadleygreen
>The whole economy was geared towards military production.
That`s not true. USSR used 9% of budget for military, Reich - 60%.
>The Soviets wanted revenge on Poland for defeating the Red Army in 1918.
Learn history more attentively. There were no "defeating the Red Army in 1918".
>Only a very few Soviet soldiers refused to rape women.
Pleease... Soviet Union is other civilization. After all crimes on Soviet land every 'Western' army could revenge on women. But only not Soviet.
163linker 1 year ago
Comment removed
broadleygreen 1 year ago
@broadleygreen
>"My mother was 19 years old and lived in the British Zone of Germany in 1945."
"I live in Berlin and was a nurse for old people."
Of course, that`s great evidences. But tell me, why that 'rape-factor of Soviet army' weren`t used in Cold War? When wintesses were younger... Only today, when USSR is no more, and wintesses are too old, there were began a propaganda campaigh against Russia.
And, I think you know that, rape was a crime in Soviet army. Punishment - shooting.
163linker 1 year ago
Comment removed
broadleygreen 1 year ago
@broadleygreen
>Walter Kempowksi
Did he wrote about rapes in "Das Echolot"? I see that it was after Cold war.
>You can also read the article ... by Antony Beevor
I read his book. What evidences does we see there? 'one berlinian doctor said, that there were raped 130 thous women'. Statistics about one hospital, where in 1945 fathers of 12 of 237 children was wrote as Russians, and in 1946 - 20 of 567.
And... That`s all? Not much to prove his number of 2 millions of raped German women.
163linker 1 year ago
163linker 1 year ago
@broadleygreen
By the way, what`s your opinion about French and Polish armies on German soil in 1945?
>Poland, supported by Britain and France, started WWII.
I think you may tell about that more detail. I never heard before, that war began by Polish invasion into Gemany.
>Military Budgets
And how many marks was used on military in 1933-39 in Germany?
>The Poles defeated the Soviets.
Polish invasion aims was, rebuild borders-1772 and liberate Ukraine. They never could do that.
163linker 1 year ago
Comment removed
broadleygreen 1 year ago
@broadleygreen
>He fabricated much of the so-called atrocities at Nuremberg
Does he fabricated 10 millions of corpses of civils in Western USSR, and thousands of burned villages?
>It was to justify Stalin´s take over of Eastern Europe.
If was already justified in Yalta in 1945.
>The whole thing about dividing Poland
Why dividing? There were Ukrainian and Belorussian majorities in that area.
>and then invade Western Europe. Hitler got there first!
That`s false.
163linker 1 year ago
Comment removed
broadleygreen 1 year ago
Quote: "Russians didn't want war" - but why the hell had the germans won the first attack against russia? German forces weren't as big as russians, the germans won the first strike, because russias troops were also in "attack"-positions and not in the defensive. (sorry for bad english, but I do hope it is understandable)
87Janus87 1 year ago
@87Janus87
>"Russians didn't want war"
That`s true.
>why the hell had the germans won the first attack against russia?
Because their organization was stronger.
>German forces weren't as big as russians
That`s not true. 8 mln Germans in Wehrmacht and 5 millions of Russians in Red Army.
>russias troops were also in "attack"-positions
That`s not true.
163linker 1 year ago
@FuckRussianPigs88
Nothing :)
163linker 1 year ago
@FuckRussianPigs88
translators aren`t very good, if you want to be understood :)
163linker 1 year ago
@FuckRussianPigs88
Where?
163linker 1 year ago
Dirty RED scum , army of RAPISTS AND CHILD MOLESTERS tHE RUSSIANS SHOULD BE VERY PROUD,
michealwhittman 1 year ago 6
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@michealwhittman
You`ve very bad property: adding of nazi army properties to Soviet ones. If your imagination are so fair - that not means, that it was in reality.
163linker 1 year ago
@michealwhittman right!
dulle3000 1 year ago 4
ich guck den film auf kino.to xD
TheGangbangBoss 1 year ago
@VChapaev you stalinistic liar! dont try to deny the soviet crimes in germany. there are millions of witnesses of the soviet terror. your "heroes" has been bloody childfuckers and mass murders. nothing else. your a pathologic stalinist afangulo!
dulle3000 1 year ago 6
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@dulle3000
Your antysoviet rhetoric is enchanting. Of course, according to you, that`s Soviet soldiers were "bloody childfickers", not German and axis ones on Soviet land.
But we`ve one problem: during cold war "democratic world" prefered to silence about it. Only today, when most of real wintess are dead - antyrussian propaganda are proceed.
Only sick people like nazis could made all crimes on Soviet land. Ordinary Soviet soldier`s heard was absolving and hasn`t any abilities for revenge.
163linker 1 year ago
Julianne kolher is a hot MILF
kondurperusix 1 year ago
@VChapaev W A R N I N G! this guy is a russian nationalist and racist!!!!!
dulle3000 1 year ago 4
@VChapaev A F A N G U L O !
dulle3000 1 year ago 2
@VChapaev go and read what lew kopolew and aleksandr solzhenitsyn wrote about the soviet crimes. e.g. prussian nights: The little daughters on the mattress, Dead. How many have been on it A platoon, a company perhaps? A girls been turned into a woman, A woman turned into a corpse.
dulle3000 1 year ago 7
@VChapaev russian soldiers killed more than 2,5 million germnan civilians. your a dull russian nationalsist and racist. fuck off!
dulle3000 1 year ago 6
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@dulle3000
In first, nazi soldiers killed 10 millions of Soviet civilians min, and 2 millions of POWs. Every 4 Belorussian dead.
In second, that number of 2,5 mln are sucked from a finger. There was no terror. Even during famine in USSR, Soviets sent grain to Germany. Do you feel the difference between nazi attitudes to conquerred nations, and Soviet attitude?
163linker 1 year ago
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@163linker The difference is SOME Red Army soldiers may have commited some crimes..the same as in any war..for such big armies (or any group of men) there will always be 1% who are bad..
But...the fact is that whole Nazi regime was trying to kill every single jew and slav in europe...without exception.
oxonboy 1 year ago
@163linker sure - but also the soviet army must be blamed for the war crimes in germany. for 2.5 million killed civilians and millions of raped woman. asnd for the elemination of some ethnical groups. so this fuckin´parade is a parade for mass rapists, murders and occupants. never forget the crimes of papa stalin!!!!
dulle3000 1 year ago 4
@dulle3000
Soo, what`s your sourse of "2.5 millions"?
>"for the elemination of some ethnical groups"
What gropus?
>"so this fuckin´parade is a parade for mass rapists"
No, that`s not true. Nazi army invaded our motherland, and Red Army defended it, and killed nazi beast. Soviet soldiers never needed revenge on innocent civilians.
>"never forget the crimes of papa stalin!!!! "
Take a tree from your own eye, in first.
163linker 1 year ago
@163linker your a dull stalinistic liar! schowing us that russia today ist still a shithole. nothing elese.
dulle3000 1 year ago
@dulle3000
Good argument, showing your western culture and respect to other countries :)
163linker 1 year ago
@163linker sure! stalin was a good papa to you! an putin is a good papa for you today. thats the russian system - just having good papas showing you the view outlook. dont be free - thats wrong for russian people. never think by your self. thats also wrong for you. so just love your system. NEVER THINK BY YOUR OWN! this ist dangeus!!!!! (in russia)
dulle3000 1 year ago
@dulle3000
are you healthy?
163linker 1 year ago
@163linker so you dont know the present legal system of russia? poor boy. you never konw a democratic, liberal and free society.
russians are just slaves to their stupid system. well rusiasn need this pressure.
so dont talk any shit. shut up and dont comment free liberal societies. and get iformed about your sick nation.
dulle3000 1 year ago
@163linker ...and of course: russia is a shithole.
dulle3000 1 year ago
how many times? - four, and you? so bitter...
HKMistress 1 year ago 7
@VChapaev yes - that might be. but the fact s that the red army is guilty for mass rape in east germnay and a genocide in eastprussia. thats it.
dulle3000 1 year ago 7
wann rafft ihr verwichsten hauptschüler das endlich mal.du bist einfach das kind deiner eltern.. scheiß egal aus welchem land, und ... wphnst du 100 meter neben der grenze bist du a wirst du 100 metzer entfernt geboren bist du b.. und das ändert was an deinem verhalten oder was???
SOAPSHOWERmusic 1 year ago 9
good and sad film
SOAPSHOWERmusic 1 year ago 12
We all know that both good and bad people live all over the world. No Nation is full of just one or the other.
lukky95 1 year ago 10
@lukky95 yes thats right ...
SOAPSHOWERmusic 1 year ago 10
was für ein stuss !! sie haben nicht die frauen vergewaltigt um denen das heimzuzahlen weil deren frauen vergewaltigt worden sind.
das ist einfach der trieb der männer und krieg ist ausnahmezustand, da kommt dieser eben durch, egal aus welcher schicht aus welchem land. in fremden ländern kann man das ausleben ohne je dafür büßen zu müssen.
THATS the fact !!!
das ist ganz "normal"
streetraver83 1 year ago 14
Comment removed
ricke1966 1 year ago
@streetraver83 ach so lautet die Ausrede für DIESES Verbrechen....na, ihr Männer machts euch ja ganz schön leicht....joa, wenn krieg is dann gehn halt die Triebe mit uns durch, könn wir auch nix für,...."OH EINE RUNDE MITTLEID!" Ganz "normal"...die Anführungszeichen machens auch nicht besser! so was schamloses!
Miriklb93 11 months ago
@CatAtFence ты фильм то смотрел с начала до конца? Посмотри. ФИЛЬМ ОБЪЕКТИВНЫЙ. Актёры молодцы.
KostjaOmsLukash11 1 year ago 5
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was haben die Deutschen mit Russengemacht???
TheCountryman00 1 year ago
in diesem Krieg haben sich alle Nationen schuldig gemacht. Schrecklich und nie wieder !
RakoRakan 1 year ago 23
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@RakoRakan O nein!!! Nicht alle, nur zwei!!!!
Vodkin197s 1 year ago
@Vodkin197s Doch doch ALLE! Die Englander und Frazosen haben Österreich und Tschechjslovokei verschenkt und verraten. Polen hat zusammen mit Deutschen Tschechien geteilt und geheime Pakte mit Nazi-Deutschland abgeschlossen übrigens genau so wie England und Frankreich. Stalin hat mit Hitler Osteuropa geteilt und besetzt...
KostjaOmsLukash11 1 year ago 16
von wem ist die filmmusik?
pearPodstattiPod 1 year ago
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Yearly was 100 000. Now -million... Poor germans that killed about 10 millions russian civils... Interesting -why evil russian so anger?
PS On west front the women also was raped , and prisoners are shotting ... But what we hear about this?
Avangerov 1 year ago
What is the name of the Song at the beginning ?
i have been searching everywhere.
Regards
olygoossens 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Weiss jemand, wie das MUsik am anfang heisst ??
würde mich riesig freuen, wenn jemand mir ds sagen könnte !
erhan1001 1 year ago
Weiss jemand, wie das MUsik am anfang heisst ??
würde mich riesig freuen, wenn jemand mir ds sagen könnte !
erhan1001 1 year ago 2
Video was excellent, quality of video not so good, As for "music ??"
I would prefer someone pour molten lead into my ears than listen to this again
theeuropean 1 year ago 8
If you like this movie, you should read the book, it's amazing! I want to see the movie. I'm curious, but obviously it's not the same (the relationship between she and the military man never happend... it's just for give some dramatism to the film...
zulemalc 1 year ago 8
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stupid movie ! bullshit
Roofius2 1 year ago
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: a part of "prussian nights" The little daughters on the mattress, Dead. How many have been on it A platoon, a company perhaps? A girls been turned into a woman, A woman turned into a corpse. It's all come down to simple phrases: Do not forget! Do not forgive! Blood for blood! A tooth for a tooth!
dulle3000 1 year ago 37
prussian nights (by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn)
The little daughters on the mattress, Dead. How many have been on it A platoon, a company perhaps? A girls been turned into a woman, A woman turned into a corpse. It's all come down to simple phrases: Do not forget! Do not forgive! Blood for blood! A tooth for a tooth!
dulle3000 1 year ago 36
i think it's not necessary to compare which country was the most cruel,German or Russia.the both were terribly cruel and did terrible things.and why? because of stupid reason -- want to be the owner of whole world.i do hate this statement. and no one was better or worse in the world war two.
tamroluluromtakankav 1 year ago 34
in this world, in all countries, in all time there was no bigger animal than human.
And I'm talking about everything what human have done to other
SadlyCheerful 1 year ago 34
Quote from Alexander Solschenizin (The Archipel Gulag):
"If one Russian raped a Grman WOman, he was well respected in his unit"
A. Solschenizin as a soldier of the red army refused to do that ....and got arrested.
The same happened to Lev Kopolev.
As Russians soldiers in 1945 those two had to know better than anyone else...
gosuc 2 years ago 34
And it also irritates me this is one of only a handful of movies showing what happend to the germans, yet we have 1000's of films about what happend to the jews...wrong..
luvpump1 2 years ago 10
This movie shock me...
Thank you!
AndreyVVV 2 years ago 35
I understand your point of view.But I don't know wheter you know any women being raped at war and the circumstances. I know some within my neighbourhood. The youngest one among them was 13 when she was raped by a bunch of russians. If you understand german,look at the youtube-video of Nemmersdorf.The man in the interview had to investigate the massacre there.A raped woman was nailed with her hands at a stapledoor and raped by 30 Russians.During the interview she urgently wanted to be shot ..
gosuc 2 years ago 34
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hmzbin heute total streichel bedürftig , wer will schreiben oder telefonieren
kennethwootennjes 2 years ago
Absolutely a nonsense-dialog that no German would survive if the Russians had done to the Germans what they did to the Russians.
How else could you explain all the rapings outside of Germany, i.e. Hungary.They even raped the wife of the swedish embassador in Budapest. It's typical for postwar-films like that to blame the victims for waht happened to them,otherwise it wouldn't sell in other countries.
Without such self-accuses, this film would not be financially supported by Tax-money.
gosuc 2 years ago 66
@gosuc Spot on gosuc, Ime English but get fed up with movies almost justifying what the german people had done to them... but like you say, it wouldn't have got the funding..
luvpump1 2 years ago
@gosuc
>How else could you explain all the rapings outside of Germany, i.e. Hungary.
Simple explanation: Hungary was the best ally of Reich, and Hungarians on Soviet land weren`t better than Germans.
Hard explanation(for western washed brains): there were no mass rapes. Rapists were shooted by tribunals.
163linker 1 year ago
@163linker Not all the "west" believes these stories. They are just part of the process to rehabilitate Nazism in the mainland of Europe... Like they call our RAF pilots murderers and war criminals...but deny that their Waffen SS every killed any civilians etc..
oxonboy 1 year ago
@gosuc
its a standard phrase in Germay betwenn the filmmakers when it comes to the WW2 time movies. Otherwise they got no funds and no right to public the movie...so..You will find that phrase in every german made movie...in different variations of course.
grazyarnie 1 year ago
The Russians had the choice in the Nuernberg trials to punnish the responsible persons.Its clear under this circumstances, that only members of the Axix were to be accused.
Some of the film-dialog is pure propagand(i.e. the Russians didn't want war). They attacked Finnland and Poland and "swallowed" the baltic countries.What they did with the Polish in Katyn is well known. No, they were nothing else but armoured rapists under the influence of Ilja Ehrenburg.They were definetively not liberators.
gosuc 2 years ago 65
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@gosuc
>What they did with the Polish in Katyn is well known.
I think you never heard about Intelligenzaction AB and operation "Tannenberg". Katyn camps with polish oficers were conquerred by Germans in july 1941, and then Germans killed them.
>No, they were nothing else but armoured rapists
Do you agree with me, that it`s so shamefull - to lose the war to untermenchen "armoured rapists"?
163linker 1 year ago
Comment removed
broadleygreen 1 year ago
@broadleygreen
Let`s look on the source of Marha Hillers diary. That diary was published in 1954 by Kurt Marek. Did he have an originals of diary? Kurt said, that his source was PRINTED text.
Authentic, yeah, very authentic.
163linker 1 year ago
This Music is very good but I haven´t the name from this...please help
MrAngemau 2 years ago
does somebody know the name of the melody/song played in the background???
KonohasFemaleNinja 2 years ago
ну что же война дело грязное,по крайней мере немецких женщин никто в сараи с детьми не загонял,и живьем там не сжигал,страшное время было..
klushigor 2 years ago 2
yes
MooseheadDrinker 2 years ago
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quote from the film: "if the russian would cause us only a small part of what we have caused them, then in Berlin, there would be no germans.»
P.S. we have very little revenge.
Alhuzar 2 years ago
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she falls in love of her rapist. that was the most disgusting movie i've ever seen. it made me lost my respect against german people...
especially when the russian soldier told, "berlin is our whorehouse, german whores carry our bastards".
yuk.
turaniturk 2 years ago
The major she 'falls in love with' (which is not really true, even less in the book) is none of her rapists (she had been raped several times before she met him).
Once after a rape she decides that "a wolf must come in here to keep the wolves of my body", as she wrote in her diary. This means that she was going to meet an officer of a rank as high as possible, and so she met the major. The movie shows that there was more than just black and white. Not all were rapists.
DerKezzer 2 years ago 4
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DerKezzer,
Have you watched the movie ?
The officer in question tells her (when she complains about rapes - at the start) "that's only a few minute ha ha"..
And then, she really falls in love with the russian official. She feels passion for him (hand to hand, Gerd disappointed when reading agenda etc..).
She had sex with passion with the gypsy...
That was disgusting.
I used to respect German women, whom appearance is nice and often serious.
But after watching that movie...
turaniturk 2 years ago
Yes I watched the movie.
And I read the book.
It was rather a rational relationship than the woman had fallen in love with the major, and he was NOT her rapist.
Later more.
DerKezzer 2 years ago 5
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if your sense of honour admits that a woman may act such way, i've nothing more to add.
some other germans were honorful... the woman who hanged herself (start of the movie) and the man who commited suicid with pills toward the end of the movie.
The movie described rather German women as whores than Soviets as rapist animals.
turaniturk 2 years ago
Your sense of honour seems to be rather mortal. Those people who earn your respect cannot benefit from it at all because they are DEAD.
The man who takes pills deserves rather pity than respect because he lost the courage to face life an to be a husband for his wife an a father for his children.
If you want to know something about my sense of honour: It does NOT admit a husband reproaching or leaving his raped wife nor a father thrownig his raped daughter out or force her to commit suicide.
DerKezzer 2 years ago 6
my word for it
marvolotom 2 years ago
He did not derisively say: "that's only a few minutes ha, ha..." but rather "these few minutes, what do they matter?" - compared to the atrocities he has already seen before, he means (as mentioned later, he had to see his wife being hanged by Germans).
That time he had little understanding for the women's hardships - but later his mind changed.
By the way, the sentence "she had sex with passion with the gypsy" sounds rather racist to me, and I have no respect for racism.
DerKezzer 2 years ago 6
what is even more disturbing, like if this (these) woma(e)n hadn't suffered enough, physically, psychologically, moreover to have been forced to some psychological enduring choices, is to see how they have just been considered with contemptuous indignation when the diary was first published 15 years after the end of war, with no psychological understanding whatsoever from their contemporaries.
chwd6 2 years ago 10
under the direction of the american authorities hundreds of thousands of German civilians were killed or starved to death..
SLACKER614 2 years ago 3
i want to see the film but unfortunately it's not available in France T.T
I want to see it even if it's english subtitels, where can i see it? :(
Oreo94Night 2 years ago
It was scheduled to play at a local art/indie theatre, but they were unable to get the film..it will be released on dvd on 10 Nov,2009...i read the book, and it was very moving and very well written..
SLACKER614 2 years ago
Maybe it will be released on dvd on 10 nov 2009 where you leave but I don't think it will be available in France since it hadn't been showed in the cinema T.T :'(
I read the book too and i'm reading " the fall of berlin "
this so horrible :S
Oreo94Night 2 years ago 4
under the direction of the german authorities millions of europeans were killed, raped and exterminated.
MooseheadDrinker 2 years ago
You're right, but was does that mean? Nothing.
If someone - a family father - kills and rapes persons, you can only do justice by punishing HIM (unfortunately, many Nazi criminals were not even prosecuted).
If you kill his wife or son and rape his daughter, this has nothing to do with justice but is simply a brutal crime.
DerKezzer 2 years ago 6
german genocide of jews, disabled, roma, etc. means nothing???
MooseheadDrinker 2 years ago
You shouldn't deliberatedly (?) misunderstand my words!
Considering the context, you'll immediately see that I strictly speak about what German war crimes and the Holocaust (two strictly different things, by the way, because Holocaust is something very Nazi-specific) mean for the rapes and murders on those German civilians who personally had nothing to do with it. You might say "the had cheered Hitler". Yes, many did. But most did not cheer Holocaust, if they knew about it at all.
DerKezzer 2 years ago 6
many knew about the holocaust by 1942 when intelligence reports from poland made their way to the UK.
btw, let me remind you, nazi's were germans! don't make it sound like they were aliens from mars who came to berlin in 1933.
MooseheadDrinker 2 years ago
Don't be lucridous! I never affirmed that Nazis had been monsters from mars or elswhere. Of course they were from inner German (or Austrian or some other ethnic German) society - and, by the way, there were similar political movements in almost entire Europe that time.
But: German was not equal to Nazi, and not even Nazi was equal to Nazi (Perhaps you know John Raabe who protected many Chinese pple from Japanese massacres).
The Nazi crimes may be avenged on the committers themselves...
DerKezzer 2 years ago 6
...(f*ck*n' limit of letters!) but not on compatriots nor family members of them selected at random. I don't deny Nazi crimes, I loathe any Ideology which promotes such or similar crimes.
But neither German war crimes nor even Holocaust justifies the rapes, let alone the torments and murders on civilians who had just had the misfortune to grow up under such a regime. Most people are not heroes, especially not moral heroes, and the Nazis were both brutal and smart in brainwashing people.
DerKezzer 2 years ago 6
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yeah rapes were terrible but i think all the crimes committed by the soviets in germany helped the germans understand the pain and suffering their government caused in ww2
MooseheadDrinker 2 years ago
I think this was a rather inept way of teaching the Germans lessons about the pain their government had caused. It's more likely that the experience of victimhood overlayed the consciousness of having believed in a mass murderer.
DerKezzer 2 years ago 11
this is so horrible :S
Why women and girls? ....
Oreo94Night 2 years ago 6
Can i see the film in France? :(
Oreo94Night 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Mich (m, 40, seit 18 Jahren Single ) interessiert - warum hat es der Hitler geschafft, daß sich tausende deutsche Frauen haben sexuell "vergewaltigen" lassen innerhalb eines Jahres -- und warum habe ich es in 25(!!) Jahren nicht einmal geschafft eine einzige deutsche Frau zu einer Verabredung einzuladen !!??
Rain2103 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Der Sarkasmus ist unangebracht.
Wie Sie vielleicht bemerkt haben, habe ich meine Meinung längst revidiert:
Will jemand eine Familie gründen, leuchtet mir der Sinn einer Eheschließung auch ohne die geringste Begeisterung für Sex natürlich unmittelbar ein.
Das möchten Sie bitte zur Kenntnis nehmen, wenn Ihnen wirklich an Diskussion und Überzeugung liegt und nicht nur daran, mich auf der Grundlage eines älteren Statements, das ich heute so nicht mehr schreiben würde, zu verdammen.
DerKezzer 2 years ago
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Wer eine solche Frage stellt, hängt Freundschaft ziemlich niedrig - viel zu niedrig! In geistiger oder seelischer Hinsicht kann eine wirklich enge Freundschaft eine wesentlich intimere Beziehung sein als manche intime Beziehung:
Einem wirklich guten Freund oder einer wirklich guten Freundin vertraut man Manches an, das man selbst dem eigenen Lebenspartner nicht ohne Weiteres auf die Nase binden würde.
Insbesondere ist Freundschaft nicht durch Gefühle wie Eifersucht belastet.
DerKezzer 2 years ago
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Dieses Argument ist aber ein eher praktisches, für das restriktive Einwanderungsbestimmungen verantwortlich sind und wo es längst nicht nur um Gefühle geht.
DerKezzer 2 years ago
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Wenn zwei Menschen mit sehr unterschiedlichen sexuellen Neigungen zusammen sind, kommt halt immer mindestens einer zu kurz, und das macht solche Partnerschaften problematisch.
Wenn zwei zueinander passen, hat niemand etwas dagegen einzuwenden zu haben oder eine solche Beziehung für minderwertig zu halten.
DerKezzer 2 years ago
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Quark!
Wenn jemand mehrere Personen gleichzeitig heiratet (egal, ob hetero- homo- oder asexuell), DER ist polygam - wie unlängst eine Britin, die gleichzeitig fünfmal verheiratet gewesen sein soll und dafür auf Bewährung verknackt wurde, weil sie das natürlich heimlich und illegal gemacht hat.
Wer hingegen Freundschaften, aber keine klassischen Zweierbeziehungen hat, ist weder Polygam noch "untreu".
DerKezzer 2 years ago
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Ich versuche mich weder herauszureden, noch spreche ich irgendjemandem ein Recht auf Ehe oder Zweierbeziehung ab, egal ob hetero- homo- oder asexuell.
Wenn zwei Leute heiraten wollen, sollen sie das machen und brauchen sich nicht darum zu scheren, ob ich den Sinn einer solchen Verbindung verstehe oder nicht.
Wenn ich apodiktisch ein Dogma verkündet hätte wie "Ohne Sexualität hat Ehe keinen Sinn", hätten Sie vielleicht Recht; das ist indes nicht der Fall.
DerKezzer 2 years ago
so siehts aus, dei deutschen im osten sind ein endprodukt der russischen besatzung und das ist auch gut so...
arischerhund 2 years ago
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Was hat die Frage, warum jemand eine eheähnliche Beziehung eingeht, der sich aus Sex nichts macht, und ob da eine enge Freundschaft nicht die bessere Art Beziehung wäre, mit Menschenrechten oder deren Geringschätzung zu tun?
Natürlich ist nichts dagegen einzuwenden, wenn BEIDE Partner sich nichts draus machen, aber ich halte es für unfair, jemaden, der das anders sieht, via Treueversprechen zu lebenslanger Enthaltsamkeit zu verpflichten.
Was zum Henker ist daran ungeheuerlich?
DerKezzer 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes <