On the bridge of the Arctic Sunrise at Faslane

[GreenpeaceUK]

@johnboy098 this forum is moderated and if you post abusive comments they will be deleted, ok?

[Togs91]

Right, for christ sake, the nukes we have are a big stick. Countries challenge us with nukes, then we have something to hit back with, hense why they dont attack us with them, hense why were still here, not to say they wont try nukes are a terrible thing but there here, thats that, history cant change, and this bullshit about everyone sign a form and get rid of nukes, terrorists wont get rid of nukes theyll make them and use that as an oppertunity to attack us with no retaliation.

[ivanjelical]

Try sailing Arctic Sunrise off North Korea or Iran!!! Hahahahaha, thought not.

[motherlodeuk]

would that be scary N Korea with its 2 or 3 nukes and no delivery system that can get anywhere near the UK, and terrifying Iran with its 0 nukes you'd be referring to?

Did it ever occur to you that we might not be the good guys in this situation? It's the nuclear weapons states that are effectively holding the rest of the world to ransom - not the other way around. Think about it...

[maramoto1]

Did it ever occur to you that N Korea is far more likely to use its 2 or 3 nukes than a western liberal democracy ever is?

Exactly how are we holding the world to ransom? These weapons are a DETERRENT and would only be used if we had already been attacked (though by that point they would have failed their purpose admittedly).

[motherlodeuk]

ok, quick history lesson - everheard of the NPT? All the big 5 nuclear powers signed it - promising to negotiate away their nukes in return for non-nuclear states pledging not to acquire nukes of their own. Oh and we also promised them aid with civil nuclear projects if they wanted it. That was in 1968 - in the meantime no nuclear power has made serious progress in arms limitation (except US & USSR ditching 1000s of outmoded weapons in the Reagan/Gorbachov era). India, Pakistan and Israel have..

[motherlodeuk]

.. illegally become nuclear states during that period - with no comeback whatsoever - they've just been tacitly accepted into the nuclear club. Asd as we've seen with recent US policy - having nukes actually does deter bullies like BUsh/Cheney from going after you - hence their prefermce for Iraq over Iran, and avoiding conflict with N Korea. The message they are sending out is: get your own nukes and we will treat you as equals - those countries without nuclear weapons...

[motherlodeuk]

...are fair game for whatever shit they feel like dishing out. This is known as realpolitik. Nuclear weapons may have a deterrent aspect when you have two reasonably equally matched sides facing of against each other, but not when one or two players hold all the cards in the game. The fact that the west has 100s of nukes probably doesn't feel like a problem for you because (I'm guessing) you're a westerner yourself. It doesn't feel so good for those worried about being on the receiving end.

[maramoto1]

Your argument completely ignores the fact that nuclear weapons would only be used by a western country as a response to a WMD attack. The West is Democratic so if you disagree with "whatever shit" your country is dishing out - persuade enough people you're right and change things politically (assuming you live in the West). That argument also applies to nuclear weapons - if you don't want them then get elected and change things.

[motherlodeuk]

"Your argument completely ignores the fact that nuclear weapons would only be used by a western country as a response to a WMD attack."

Again it's you who are living in a dream world - have you never heard of the Bush Doctrine - permitting the US to launch 'pre-emptive' strikes against anyone they think might be plotting against them? And specifically not ruling out the use of a nuclear response to non-nuclear attacks. Your confidence in our 'democracy' is touching, given recent events.

[maramoto1]

Bush Doctrine??? - Faslane is in Scotland so hardly think US policy is relevant. We could carry this on forever but thankfully greenpeace is a fringe group with little real power.

[maramoto1]

That is certainly one interpretation of US policy with regards to N Korea and Iran. It ignores the fact that Iran doesn't have any yet though. Much as I admire your idealism and would like to see a world free of nuclear weapons - it is unrealistic to assume that everyone in the world shares your sentiments, in my opinion that kind of optimism is dangerous in the extreme.

[motherlodeuk]

It's you who are being dangerously naive in your faith that nuclear weapons will never be used. They already have been, and almost certainly will be again as the global energy crisis sets states competing for scare resiurces aginst each other, and climate change sets whole populations on the move. That's why it's so vital that we act to get rid of as many as possible while there's still time...

[gazza9651]

VERY CLEVER YOU FUD

[ssbn03]

SEA POWER FOR PEACE!!!!

[Megatron396]

quote "Erm,if we launched a Nuke on a country,the fallout would kill us all,genious." It's a stand off, we might not like it but there ya go. It'd be nice if we could all get along but the fact is, while people have different beliefs, people will disagree & fight...over beliefs. Maybe places of worship should be blockaded...get rid of religion, get rid of war and get rid of nukes..is that too simplistic or do I have a skewed view on the world...mind you, it is just opinion.

[readie1988]

lol.. al tell u how unsuccessful the greenpeace were wen the artic sunrise was at faslane hms vengeance sailed to go to sea from coulport ehj just around the corner from faslane in lochlong...

shows u they dnt ave a clue lol

get a life and a job :P

and how do i know how vengeance sailed wen artic sunrise was at faslane??

becuz a was on it :D

go SSBN's!!!

[GreenpeaceUK]

diesel oil, as far as I know.

[sundog47]

WTF don't you brits know about Dentistry.

I suggest a name change is in order. I think your organization should be called "GREENTEETH YUK"

Just a suggestion.

[GreenpeaceUK]

Ho Ho - bet you keep all your sub-buddies in stiches with your quips. Bet they can't wait for your next rip-roaring witticism.

[sundog47]

Well actually we show clips of these guys in Zodiacs running about doing Monte Python imitations. We folk in the colonies take our

submarines very seriously. We celebrate at bars by stripping down and shoving toilet paper in our butt cracks and lighting it on fire. Its called the "dance of the flaming ass holes." You guys should try it.........

[motherlodeuk]

"We celebrate at bars by stripping down and shoving toilet paper in our butt cracks" - reassuring to know our national security is in the hands of a bunch of retards - what do you do for an encore - stick nukes up each others asses?

[Ultimashadow87]

I visited Faslane a few months back. I was on a minesweeper at the time, When some greenpeace activist's tried a futile attempt to get onboard one of the Submarines Docked at the Base. If i had any say on what the MOD does i would have anyone attempting to blockade/Board The Submarines at faslane, I would mark you down as Terrorists and shot on site. Im thankful that we have a Nuclear Arsenal to deter other counties.

[GreenpeaceUK]

"why don,t you f**k off back to your liberial or socialist lives back in england aqnd give us jocks some peace"

So you wouldn't be one of the majority of Scots who oppose nuclear weapons on your territory, then, bigkidda?

[danny842003]

but what about iran or korea? ok they wont attack us now. but only because we can fight back. if we coudnt fight back then whats stoping them? so i would rather have these weapons that i hope are never ever used. and if we dont get a replacement then the millitary should get that 50bn any way. god knows they need it

[dman466]

ha ha fuck wit we had your boat for a week, why dont you stop menacing the world with your brain washing shite. Go and get a job and leave us to do ours. The whole area hate you all now. any sympathy locals had for your cause was killed off when they had to wait 3 hours to get to work in helensburgh. Fannies

[danny842003]

the sad thing is that so many SNPs are tying to grab votes by clinging on to this. not because they are true belevers just because they think they can further there own ends.

if trident is scraped it will be the surounding areas that will suffer in loss of jobs etc.

[bigkidda]

if i was on board that pile of scrap metal in the middle of the gareloch i would use some brains and scuttle it. as it would make a beeter barricade to protect a proper military base. people like you should think about the people of the gareloch that are trying to make a living than trying to get rid of their jobs. why don,t you f**k off back to your liberial or socialist lives back in england aqnd give us jocks some peace

[metsoriv]

Well said Dman466. They aint laughing now beacuase the MOD has there boat and there not giving it back. The last I heard, it will be tied up at Faslane for at least 6 months for evidence purposes. It will then be used by the Navy for torpedo practice, something to do with salvage rights.

Replace Tridet Now, More Nukes makes the world a happy place, they've kept the peace for 50 years now.

[timjudge]

Tell me, what use is a nuclear submarine against a suicide bomber? What is the point in having weapons that you can never use? Wouldn't you rather have the government spend the $50bn cost of replacing Trident on something far more useful like improving the health service, reducing crime or reducing taxes?

[metsoriv]

I'll tell you this timjudge. A nuclear submarine is an excellent defence against some raghead suicide bomber. You see a cruise missile can pinpoint him to within 1m and blow him and his brainwashed chums off the face of the planet. It's all about intellegince all you need to know is where they are. I take it you rather risk the lives of our finest soldiers sending them into a terrorist stronghold to try and kill when the same job can be done by a nulear sub from 200miles away. You make me sick.

[jim0203]

metsoriv: "I take it you rather risk the lives of our finest soldiers sending them into a terrorist stronghold to try and kill when the same job can be done by a nulear sub from 200miles away. You make me sick."

Precisely how could a warhead on a Trident D5 missile be used in this way? How, and why, would any nuclear weapon ever be used in this way, when non-nuclear weapons would destroy a "terrorist stronghold" perfectly adequately?

[danny842003]

He said nuclear submarine. this little stunt may have delyaed the depature of a trafalgar class boat with tomahawks and endangered maybee even costing lives.

And as for scots nopt wanting it in there country its all spin. I bet if asked if they would rather not have them at all they would choose to keep them where they are.

[metsoriv]

jim0203 - I at no point stated that a Trident Missile would be used. You are obviously no at aware of the capabilities of our magnificent Nuclear POWERED submarine fleet. Another thing, with Iran next on the agenda, The great George W has stated the USA would not rule out the use of nukes.

[rabid421]

Although Nukes are the most terrifying thing man has created. The fact is that we owe it the British people to protect them with a nuclear deterrent. I pray that they will never be used but always say you never know! I never understand why you people think that by us (the west) setting an example, the rest will follow????

[Poefacedraven]

So next time a 'raghead' terrorist blows up a tube train in central London, we should fire a Nuclear weapon at him,.

Hmm m I think there may be some flaws in your carefully reasoned defence plan.

[ValkyrieDeath]

Erm,if we launched a Nuke on a country,the fallout would kill us all,genious.

[territt16]

Retard, do you know anything about nukes? one nuke wouldnt take out the whole of a large town, let alone everyone

[snowpiggyg]

I liked your comment. I am married to a submariner and I am disgusted at this organizations actions. Nothing like risking innocent lives. Like I have said before, a submarine doesn't not brake quickly so beware.

[snowpiggyg]

Yeah like using the money for a dental plan for all English patrons.

[dman466]

you limp wristed gudder, you people are all up yourselves, why not broadcast the truth. you blocked nothing, got 18 other gudders arrested and lost your boat. They are called submarines fuck wit because they can dive. If it had to go out to sea, do really believe that cos your ex-whaling boat was there it would stop. i think not. the things you are protesting about actually allow u the freedom to protest. Why dont you show the video of your boat getting stormed and taken off you later that day

[snowpiggyg]

Thanks for the insight. I was wondering what the final outcome was. I asked my husband (U.S. submariner) about this stunt and he told me in most cases the group is unsuccessful. They end up looking like fools and finding themselves in deep trouble. I don't know about that base but here in the U.S. their actions would result in sever punishment.

[GreenpeaceUK]

yeah snowpiggy - if we we'd done it in the US we'd all have been shipped out to Guantanamo - didn't it used to be "the land of the free and the home of the brave" - I'd pay attention to what's going on closer to home if I were you, the Bush administration is tearing up your constitution right in front of your noses... though it sounds like you're more interested in your dental hygene programme - floss away with George, the Colgate way, and keep waving your flags.

[ivanjelical]

We havent got a constitution as far as I know.

[fredilexi]

Thanks for posting this. I really admire what you are doing. I know a comment from a pro-war supporter will not phase you. Some people are just unable to see what you are trying to achieve. Another two people are Bush and Blair. I know who's company I would rather be in.

[scotcom]

You folks are true heros - just uploaded a few vids of the Bin the Bomb demo in Glasgow - youz got a massive cheer.

Keep exposing our international hypocrisy and double standards! You are defending our democracy, cos the MPs and media sure has heck aren't.

[danny842003]

why dont you stick to stoping whaleing or something that actually matters. and something your efforts arnt wasted on.

Also how eco friendly is the arctic sunrise???

[danny842003]

yes but the system is always going to be there. and the new system is going to be built. no matter how many ships you sail in to faslane. no matter how many SNP's (Who should know fucking better) sit in front of the gates. All this is just wasteing tax payers money. just because you think a nuclear detterent is wrong. dosent make it ok for you to waste thousends possably millions over the years in doing this

[bizarro1999]

Well, yes it does brother 'cos this is what democracy is all about...

[danny842003]

stay there all day and all night. guess not from what ive read. do something worth while. the trident subs have never hurt anyone (yet). stop wasting tax payers money.

[bluemanben]

Danny my dear fellow, the Trident system is the biggest waste of taxpayers money that I can think of. Greenpeace, on the other hand, is entirely funded by public donations and operates on a tiny budget compared to the UK's WMD programme.