Hitchens is a master of clever, witty one liners, and getting people excited by cursing in a professional, scholarly debate. But it just boggles my mind how people can be so enthralled by this nonsense that they can't even see that Hitchens did not make a single real, coherent argument.
@ScientificExploits "Well, it's not going to take ten minutes to disprove the existence of god." It's not going to take 10 min for me to prove God. cont.
1. Atheists prove God by insisting on morals. Without God there are no morals. Atheists claim that morals are subjective thereby neutralizing morals. Subjective means opinion. No man is going to allow someone else's opinion to rule him morally. See, it doesn't make sense.
>Actually no. Atheists find no good reason to have faith on ANY deity/ies.
"Without God there are no morals."
>Which god?
-Morals are a result of a `Sphere of Culture´. All you rants fail on that one aspect and I should invite you to read upon it, instead of your dear holy book.
-`Sphere of Culture´, explains your...inabilities to comprehend.
@DogFood631 Atheists prove God by insisting on morals? False. Without God there are no morals? False. In order for someone to say something is right or wrong there must be a universal standard? False. This cannot be achieved by subjective human morality? False. Without God morality doesn't exist? False. Atheist morals are immoral? False (and daft)
2. In order for anyone to say something is right or wrong, there must be a clear universal standard of what constitutes right and wrong. This cannot be achieved through subjective human morality, because everyone's views differ. This standard can only be established if handed down from a higher authority, i.e. God." This is a clear and correct statement. Without God morality doesn't exist. To say it does, is to do mental acrobatics (i.e., intellectual dishonesty.)
3. They contradict themselves by condemning Christian morals. They claim morals evolved. If morals evolved Christian morals have demonstrated themselves to be the highest most successful standard, but atheists tear them down. When asked they will condemn slavery, but society in the past approved of slavery so according to subjective morals slavery is moral. They can't explain how slavery was deemed moral yet they see it as immoral. What made it immoral when society elected it as moral?
4. Atheistic morals are immoral. Morals of atheism: abortion, homosexuality, perversion, legalized prostitution, legalized drugs, legalized porn, legalized child molestation, legalized adoption by homosexuals, denial of ALL Christian morals. No society can last very long with the above immoral system. Society is NOT the determiner of morals. Any society trying to use the above list wipes itself out. Absolute morals are absolutely necessary for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Freedom.
@DogFood631 You really don't have a clue about anything do you!?! That would be like me saying that theistic morality consists of "Child molesting, Aids pushing, suicide bombing, genocide, slavery, enforced genital mutilation of children etc etc etc". Oh wait that is what the theistic morality is and it is much better.
5. Conclusion: Atheism is not reasonable, logical, nor intelligent. It is intellectually dishonest. DOES NOT MEET HUMAN NEEDS, takes hope, courage, joy and love out of the heart; it renders futile the desire for happiness which is found in every human soul. (The single greatest proof of all.) GOD EXISTS
@DogFood631 You can't prove god with an argument from logic. The description of god makes it a logical fallacy. Can God create a rock so big, even he cannot lift it? That is one of many contradictions you have to get over before you start bringing logic into this.
Debates such as these are futile, people should stop acting nice and simply get into a fistfight over issues such as God and religion and have it done with once and for all.
Christopher's continued use of the phrase "One cannot mention WMDs in the same breath as Saddam...but" is the key to the disingenuous deceptiveness of his argument. First it is a sort of straw man --no one maintains he has never had WMDs or used them. Second he is confligating the beginning of time with when we invaded. Saddam's acts "Will be repeated." I would ask "How?" with 400 weapons inspectors there who agreed his capacity to do so was gone.
@yurismir1 Ah I see I just read up on it. He was a Christian until age 15, then converted back to Christianity years later. J.R.R. Tolkien must have been a persuasive arguer because that seldom happens.
@graemealee Israeli archaeologists discovered recently that the enslavement/exodus from Egypt was a COMPLETE fabrication. As it happens, Jehovah is a complete fabrication too. I think I'm seeing a pattern here....
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How could Mr. Hitchens, with a straight face and serious demeanor, talk negatively about religion as enslaving, when he is one of the most enslaved men in modern times: enslaved to alcohol, enslaved to tobacco...for which he is now, unfortunately, facing the horrible prospect of a terrible disease that is likely to take his life - enslaved to cancer and the prospect of premature death.
If you are persuaded by this argumentation, you are, also, enslaved to your own preconceptions and not logic.
@kentuckypreacher Before actually reading your nieve and asinine comment, I had an idea of how intellectually sound it was going be after reading your youtube account name.
@kentuckypreacher hitchens once said that when your enemies resort to the ad hominem it's a sign of victory- it doesn't matter whose mouth it comes out of, it matters what is said.
@kentuckypreacher You just missed the point mate. You are not forced to smoke or drink. It's up to you to decide to do so or not to do so. If you want to keep going that way - you're enslaved to oxygen too, but it doesn't mean that you're wrong about any topic you pick.
Oh but Christopher, you can die and leave God too...your ultimate liberty to die and be rid of Him forever is yours for the asking. God is no fascist. You get exactly what you want.
As much as I LOVE CH for his Iraq war views...I cannot stand his blithely ignorant stance on God and the shamefully self concious use of anthropomorphism with which he filters all arguement against the notion.
Hitchens defines God in very narrow terms and only ever attacks what are in fact man made religious organisations or the ancient texts created by those religions.
In Einstein's biography by Walter Isaacson, when asked directly if he believed in god he replied: 'There is a spirit manifest in the laws of the universe in the face of which man should remain humbled and awed.'
Einstein also said: 'Science without religion is lame while religion without science is blind.'
@TheDazmatron My point was Hitchens, like many atheist scholars, uses Einstein to support his arguement but pantheism and atheism are fundementally different despite the claims of people like Richard Dawkins. If asked if the universe was created or happened by chance a pantheist would say the former but an atheist would not. As all truths are half-truths, it's hard to say who's right. Slán.
Very well put. Point taken. My own point was simply to highlight Einstein's Pantheistic leanings rather than have people believe he was a theist. It's not likely that he was an atheist but certainly abandoned the Jewish beliefs with which he was brought up. Slán agus beannacht.
Atheism is a belief which cannot be proven, therefore it operates on faith, which by definition makes it a religious system. It focuses on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos, and human nature) which yield a set of religious laws, ethics, and a particular lifestyle. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience.
The claims to a morally superior high ground also pegs atheism as a religion. So it looks like you're going to have accept the fact that it is a religion. Deal with it.
@DogFood631 "The claims to a morally superior high ground also pegs atheism as a religion."
Uh, no it doesn't. There is no requirement to belief is some supernatural whatever to simply know certain things are wrong (i.e. murder, theft, rape). Not doing these things simply because it is wrong is obviously a higher morality than not doing them out of fear of eternal punishment or because you were ordered to.
@DogFood631 "Tell me how you know murder, theft, and rape are wrong? "
Well doggy, any intelligent person can see that it is self evident. You don't need a 2000-year-old myth or a man in a funny hat to tell you that no one has the right to harm another without cause. This does not change depending on which page in your mythology book you read.
On the other hand, I am a convinced you are troll. No one who is able to breath on their own can believe like you do.
Uh, no. Atheism is the *absence* of a belief in a supernatural being. Not believing there is a magical world inside of the sun with fairies, unicorns and hobbits does not constitute a religion, either. Therefore, the rest of your arguments quite simply fall apart.
I'm afraid you've gotten it wrong. Atheism is not a belief. It is disbelief. I think that is all I need to say to render your comment or viewpoint futile.
@TheDazmatron I'm afraid you got it wrong or you're just a liar. Most atheists are liars is that what we have? Atheism is a belief. If it were just a disbelief atheists wouldn't be here constantly blabbering and claiming their beliefs. Personally I don't believe in atheists.
I don't think you are aware of how this works. I'll try to put is as simply as possible - You guys believe in something - us guys don't believe in it (disbelief). A platform or forum such as this allows us to converse or debate on the issue.
God's intelligence is absolute and thus he wants people in his presence that are intelligent. He created the bible as a test. Not to test our morality, but to test our intelligence. Those who realize that it is a myth have earned the right to spend eternity with God. This is proven by the fact the smarter and more educated people are the less religious they are. They have learned what God wants them to know and are thus "saved".
@DogFood631 .atheism is not a belief.How cvan you not believe in atheists?that the most stupid thing ive ever read.Ateism is not a ideology and doctrine.Anaylse the word a-theism and think again.
@laudrup90 Can you prove it asshole??? IT IS an ideology. And you assholes are worse than the door-to-door fundies. At least they never come to my door insulting me. They are always pleasant and leave when I tell them I'm not interested. BUT YOU you're a fucking flaming asshole. Why don't YOU come to my door so I can punch your chickenshit lights out? AND no, there is no such thing as an atheist. GOT IT?
@laudrup90 hahahahhaa you're so upset you can't even type. hahaha You're in denial. If it's not a belief why is there the FIRST CHURCH OF ATHEISM? Yeah, it's a belief. If it weren't you wouldn't be here yapping about it. You'd be out having fun somewhere.
@DogFood631 Wait.... are you being serious or are you dense? The "First Church of Atheism" doesn't denote belief at all. Atheism is neither religion nor belief; it is quite the opposite. The last couple sentences of your reply don't even make sense. So if there's anybody groping thin air, it's you. Look at it this way: if atheism was a belief, being bald is a hairstyle - that one's a classic. It's a stretch, you could say so if you'd like, but it's simply not true. Not in the slightest.
@pythor2 The problem with evolutionists is that they are narrow-minded, loud-mouth assholes with no understanding of science OR evolution which are two entirely different things. They can't imagine that science can cause someone to become a creationist without the Bible as I have done. Science in fact completely disproves evolution.
I'm dumbfounded - entirely unsure what so say. Perhaps a question - are you serious? And... if so.... how do you expect any thinking being to take you seriously?
@TheDazmatron You're dumb? I have found you dumb? Thinking being? There aren't any of those in here. And take me seriously? You should, as I'm the only person here who knows what he's talking about.
That is the problem with Christians. It isn't that they choose to be closeminded to discussions such as these, but instead, their God tells them to. Rough quote from the bible, "There will be false prophets among you, and you must shut your mind to them." That is EXACTLY the problem we are facing today. They aren't choosing to not chase knowledge...Their God is.
That doesn't seem like a very loving God to not share his knowledge. In fact it sounds just like my 4-year-old nephew and (continued)
DARWIN??? He is the nutcase with no science training who practiced witchcraft and danced naked around the campfires of South American pagans and then concocted the out-dated, 19th century, bullshit hoax called evolution. He didn't know anything about genetics since he was so stupid as to marry one of his own cousins and with predictable resulting offspring.
@DogFood631 "He didn't know anything about genetics since he was so stupid as to marry one of his own cousins and with predictable resulting offspring."
..facepalm......lurch groan....
Please tell us you are troll. PLEASE!!! The whole science of genetics was founded (more or less) by Gregor Mendel whose work was published AFTER Darwin's "On the Origin of Species". Isn't it logical that Darwin didn't know anything about genetics? It didn't exist then!
I wish I could speak so lucidly on the subject. He just has all the right words at his fingertips. Sam Harris is very good too if you haven't heard him yet.
I agree with everyone else here who feels that C. Hitchens articulated his argument against the existence of god at least as well as he ever has. The desire for totalitarianism angle was brilliant.
I'd really like it if the made comments available at the 14th vid, leave it disabled in the first 13. Too many people are jumping the gun...and I see less and less views as I keep watching
"Error has no rights." That was the stupid idea which led the Catholic Church to oppress people. And that same stupid idea has been adopted by many of the new Atheists. Religious and nonreligious people can oppress when they hold that error has no rights. "The Case for Civility" by Os Guinness is a warning we should all take heed of.
@Naabenstadt You're absolutely right. This is CH's most detailed, lucid and concise summation of his strongest arguments. Which just shows you how weak he is. This twerp is everything that is wrong with both journalism and the petrified, vaccuus, sterile intellectuality of the university movement which is being rejected more quickly by today's youth than the Church is. I've been interviewed many times and all journalists come with the storey already written. The profession is dead.
I like it - alot, but allied to your position; I too have seen most of his video clips and also a live debate in Trinity College Dublin 4 years ago. However, I don't think it's his best - have a look at his reply to a question at the Christian book expo where he invokes Joseph Freitzel - very colourful. Also his demolition of Rabbi Shmuley is interesting. He doesn't do so well with Dinesh D'Souza though
This is the first time I've ever seen C. Hitchens speak without simultaneously slurping down some alcoholic beverage, and - man - he is way better than I expected him to be.
Job 7:19-21 " How long? Will You look away from me, and let me alone till I swallow my saliva? Have I sinned? What have I done to You, O watcher of men? Why have You set me as Your target, So that I am a burden to myself? Why then do You not pardon my transgression, And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust, and you will seek me diligently, but I will no longer be."
This very much sounds that Job is asking why he is suffering by a loving God=the problem of evil.
No, this is not really the problem of evil because in this passage Job is not questioning god's existence. But, then again, most characters in the Bible (like all theistic texts) are mindless sheep do I wouldn't expect him to have that sort of intelligence and free-thought.
"I find fault in you because you follow Christianity."
"most characters in the Bible (like all theistic texts) are mindless sheep do I wouldn't expect him to have that sort of intelligence and free-thought."
Seany, Do you hear yourself? You find fault in us for following Jesus, call God corrupt and immoral and all the mean while not *one* bit of LOVE comes from you. . .
And remember everytime Hitchens says that we have better explanations for the mysteries of life: that we aren't created in the image of God, being called back to Him in love and don't have souls.
We all share the common ancestor of banana's, palm trees and pond water hit by lightining. We have no souls, no actual(!) grounds for morality -just the populace' consensus and love, care and emotion is all a chemical reaction and a delusion as well...
Yes that is what he is saying, and it's alot better than the totalitarian and cruel god you see in the Bible. A 'good' book with a morality inferior to every atheist I know. And what do you have against nature exactly? I would much rather share my ancestry with all the beautiful and diverse beings on this Earth, than being made out of dirt. Which is what god did.
By what standard do you compare this too? Where does that standard come from?
"alot better than the totalitarian and cruel god you see in the Bible."
God in the Bible revealed Himself in Jesus Christ and He is none of these things. Are you refering to the OT conquering of the promised land? Have you researched these events and why they were called to be? Who was in the land before the previous inhabitants?
This standard of morality is innate in all people (naturally sociopaths and psychopaths excluded). Partly because of our superior intelligence and thus our unique empathic abilities. And partly because of the instinctive evolutionary altruism.
And if you don't accept that your god is less 'good' than even a reasonably moral person, you haven't read the Bible, or you are in denial. Your god has killed hundreds of thousands in the Old AND New Testament. He made someone's guts fall out for no reason. He ordered Moses to BUTCHER men, women, and children. They spared a few children for slaves, and some young virgin women for sexual slaves. In NO context would an omnibenevolent god ever endorse such actions.
I don't need to cite these sources. I could. But it would be easier to direct you to someone who makes whole videos about it. Have you heard of NonStampCollector? Go to his YouTube channel. He ridicules the Judeo-Christian god, and virtually every time he does so, he backs it up with a Bible chapter and verse citation. Watch a few of his videos and you will have a VERY good idea of what I'm talking about. Also, go to my YouTube channel and see some of my other subscribed channels.
On top of all this, back to the morality issue, there are many atheistic-in-nature belief systems which are very moral. Just to name a few: Buddhism, Confucianism & Humanism. These beliefs all have a MUCH better track record than Christianity. I can't even think of an instance when a Buddhist killed in the name of Buddhism or Buddha.
The wisdom of Buddha compared to people such as Jesus is blindingly obvious. Buddha is arguably the first person ever to discover the problem of evil. He realized (quite naturally like all intelligent men) whilst walking through the slums of a disgusting urban backwater 2500 years ago that such suffering means that a all-loving and all-powerful god CANNOT exist, such an entity in our universe is a universal negative.
I don't want to bash people such as Guatama Buddha. But you are calling the Bible nonsense and then speaking about a man who believes that he went through countless lifeforms before becoming a man and then saw a corrupt world and taught to empty *all* of your mind to have peace.
He is presumed to have lived in 560-480 BC, this rules out him being the first man to know the problem of evil. By far.
Buddha's teachings were written down almost 400 years after he lived. Yet the Gospels are trying to be ruled out for being written in the decades right after Christ resurected. This is inconsistent criticism.
How much Buddha (Guatama) actually said is beyond identifiable or reliable when put the current standards of critique. Its a faith based decision to trust what is written.
I have already explained how Buddha doesn't have to believed. It is your choice, and you can believe either way without punishment or reward. It isn't his vanity that he is doing it for, or some deity, he is just showing you a possible route to freedom from Samsara [suffering]. Freedom from suffering is a reward obviously, if you want to call it that.
This is why nowone has criticised the historicity because Buddhism's open-mindedness and atheistic nature has made it unnecessary.
To be honest, you might not even regard Buddhism as a religion, because that word has theistic and dogmatic connotations. It is more like a philosophy (eg. Marxism or capitalism).
According to "Buddhist Scriptures" by Edward Conze (1959):
"For the first five hundred years the Scriptures were orally transmitted. They were written down only at the beginning of the Christian era, because at that time the decline in faith threatened their continued survival in the memories of the monks. Different schools wrote down different things. [...] The years between A.D. 100 and 400 were the golden age of Buddhist literature."
What's your point that 100 AD - 400 AD is the Golden Age of Buddhist literature? It was probably because the Indian subcontinent's Empire of that time made it their state religion.
I think this shows that when put to the scrutiny the Bible has been facing even now, that Guatama Buddha's words don't hold up with authenticity or historicity.
Guatama Buddha isn't held by all Buddhists to be a historical character. Buddhists and Buddhism are not dogmatic, unlike Christians and Christianity. Buddha's life (or lack of) is seen as relatively unimportant, it was his TEACHINGS that are important. He merely was trying to help every person free themselves from Samsara [suffering] by finding Bodhi [enlightenment] in this life (one of the reasons why Buddhism is atheistic).
Dogmas and principles ARE evil if they are based on lies, 'faith' and a primitive 'reward and punishment' system. And have you actually read the Bible? It is one of the best arguments against Christianity in the mind of any rational reader.
The following fact surprised me a little: apparently only 10% of the world's 2 billion Christians have actually read the Bible. The FOUNDATIONAL book of your religion. It's like me saying I know evolution is a fact without first looking at the science. (Btw I've looked at the science and it's absolutely a fact.) In the Bible Jesus says he will "cast into the flames" anyone who doesn't believe in him! How is that loving and not vindictive! And how different is that from what Buddha said lol? ¬¬
"apparently only 10% of the world's 2 billion Christians have actually read the Bible."
I highly doubt there are 2 billion Christians in the world anyway. And these statistics give evidence to that. Many people 'check' the 'Christian' box on surveys, this doesn't mean anything.
About reading the Bible (which I do and love) many Christians in persecuted countries get arrested for having Bibles and many are arrested and killed for trying to deliver them.
I agree with you when you say that a lot of people tick the Christian box when they shouldn't, but there are still alot of Christians. And by the way, in all modern/civilised countries nowone is persecuted fro holding a Bible. There are backward theocracies that might do this, but there are also backward theocracies that punish people for possessing a Quran, the Pali Canon, the Torah, or none at all (ie. atheism).
That's not slander you waste of two pounds of brain matter.
The Bible is totally barbaric, it contains incest (by the bucket-full) it contains rape (by the bucket-full) it contains genocide with little reason for it..
Of course the Bible is barbaric, if you deny this you're an idiot.
Pretty rude to psychoanalyze me from a youtube comment. I just like debating that's all, your original comment irritated me and I replied to it, now excuse me while I go carry on my loveless existence..
When did I say the Bible is accepted? It is accepted by some people, but that is irrelevant. In Nazi Germany Hitler's regime was 'accepted' by virtually all of Germany's citizens.
And I'm not slandering. Even though I might be a bit 'audacious' sometimes, I can assure you it's nothing ad hominem, it is merely intellectual enthusiasm. And comments such as "intellectually barren" are simply a more illustrious way of saying "it isn't true and is slightly odd".
You do not understand Buddhism, or any of its similar teachings (eg. the Three Doctrines). Buddha said that you do not need to believe anything he said, I've told you this already.
I find fault in you because you follow Christianity. Which is quite frankly a joke. As it should be for a tribal superstition invented 2000 years ago. And as I've said this discussion isn't even supposed to be about Buddhism, it is supposed to be directed at your peculiar world view.
He is not preachy, fanatic, or dogmatic. He was merely putting a view 'out-there'. Like "This is what I believe will free you from suffering. You will not be punished for disobeying me, you have a free will and a right to an opinion. But, I would like it if you did some of the things I said because I genuinely care about your happiness." That is Buddha in a nutshell. Basically harmless.
"This is what I believe will free you from suffering." History has shown that this will not free you from suffering in life. Jesus has even said that the suffering will not cease, but He will be there with us.
Saying a view will eliminate suffering is a large claim and I don't see the evidence in the world to affirm what Buddha has said.
Precisely, Jesus' teaching that "because humans are tainted our suffering will never end", and if you dogmatically pursue his bronze age fantasies that will help you. If this truly is Jesus' message then it is a philosophy of failure, it is a philosophy of pessimism, it is a philosophy of hopelessness - like all Christianity.
And some Buddhist monks have actually 'freed' themselves from suffering (observe a few of the Himalayan communes). And their truly Enlightened life style has given them skills and knowledge the inferior Abrahamic and theistic practitioners have never possessed. Whilst Catholic clergy fiddle children, and Protestants teach bullshit like creationism, Buddhist monks push the boundaries of human aesthetics, wisdom, and empiric senses.
Did you know that in - 8 C Buddhist monks dried the wet towel draped around them? Did you know that Buddhist monks can 'leave' their bodies because of meditation? When they leave their bodies they actually become indifferent to pain, in this state they can become virtually immune to things like torture.
All the above proves that theistic 'spirituality' leads to a shallow and meaningless religious lifestyle. Which is inevitable because theism is built on half-truths and lies, and how can a lifestyle built on that ever be good?
Additionally, have you heard of Dharma? This is the Buddhist belief that anyone can be a Buddha, and you don't have to follow all of Buddha's teachings to be a Buddhist. You can search for Enlightenment in whatever way you see fit, and you can help others seek it in whatever way you see fit. Of course this is not completely open, there are a few things that all Buddhists should agree on (eg. don't kill, don't steal ..).
Exactly, it's the fact that you go to Jesus that is the problem. Christianity is a barbaric and intellectually barren religion. To be honest, I don't care that much about Buddhism, this discussion has just taken a big detour because you desired to focus on Buddhism for some reason.
And "in whatever way you see fit" does allow wiggle room, but as I've already said, there are some things that you should all agree on. For instance the "Four Noble Truths", the "Eightfold Wheel" and the "three marks of existence". Look them up. And the fact is Buddhism isn't about grovelling before some fictional bearded god, it's about empowerment. If you don't even remotely follow Dharma then you will just not reap its benefits, and Samsara will continue.
There is no heaven or hell or deities in Buddhism, Buddhism is about making yourself and others virtuous and happy in THIS life.
And by the way, you are speaking shit. Out of the commonly cited, Epicurus (an ancient Greek who lived c. 300 BCE) is credited with first proposing the problem of evil. But Buddha had already pondered something along similar lines. It is understandable though because we have always placed classicism in a position of centricity.
"And by the way, you are speaking shit. Out of the commonly cited, Epicurus (an ancient Greek who lived c. 300 BCE) is credited with first proposing the problem of evil. But Buddha had already pondered something along similar lines"
The Book of Genesis was written 1450-1410 BC and constantly speaks of evil and sin. Whether you accept it as truth or not is not in debate, man has been aware of cruelty and evil almost from the beginning.
not yet one youtube video with god in it
Georgemikejus 1 month ago
One word: Sklavenmoral.
7buddha 1 month ago
Hitchens is a master of clever, witty one liners, and getting people excited by cursing in a professional, scholarly debate. But it just boggles my mind how people can be so enthralled by this nonsense that they can't even see that Hitchens did not make a single real, coherent argument.
patrckhh20 1 month ago
@patrckhh20 I'm assuming you mean Hitchens major? You and I must have been listening to different debates.
musiclover9361 1 week ago
"AT LEAST you can fucking die, and leave North Korea"... so powerful. This man is my idol
azteckia 4 months ago
"Well, it's not going to take ten minutes to disprove the existence of god."
ScientificExploits 4 months ago
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@ScientificExploits "Well, it's not going to take ten minutes to disprove the existence of god." It's not going to take 10 min for me to prove God. cont.
DogFood631 1 month ago
@ScientificExploits GOD EXISTS
1. Atheists prove God by insisting on morals. Without God there are no morals. Atheists claim that morals are subjective thereby neutralizing morals. Subjective means opinion. No man is going to allow someone else's opinion to rule him morally. See, it doesn't make sense.
DogFood631 1 month ago
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@DogFood631
"1. Atheists prove God by insisting on morals."
>Actually no. Atheists find no good reason to have faith on ANY deity/ies.
"Without God there are no morals."
>Which god?
-Morals are a result of a `Sphere of Culture´. All you rants fail on that one aspect and I should invite you to read upon it, instead of your dear holy book.
-`Sphere of Culture´, explains your...inabilities to comprehend.
ArmaFennica 1 month ago
@DogFood631 Atheists prove God by insisting on morals? False. Without God there are no morals? False. In order for someone to say something is right or wrong there must be a universal standard? False. This cannot be achieved by subjective human morality? False. Without God morality doesn't exist? False. Atheist morals are immoral? False (and daft)
TheFish333333 1 month ago
2. In order for anyone to say something is right or wrong, there must be a clear universal standard of what constitutes right and wrong. This cannot be achieved through subjective human morality, because everyone's views differ. This standard can only be established if handed down from a higher authority, i.e. God." This is a clear and correct statement. Without God morality doesn't exist. To say it does, is to do mental acrobatics (i.e., intellectual dishonesty.)
DogFood631 1 month ago
3. They contradict themselves by condemning Christian morals. They claim morals evolved. If morals evolved Christian morals have demonstrated themselves to be the highest most successful standard, but atheists tear them down. When asked they will condemn slavery, but society in the past approved of slavery so according to subjective morals slavery is moral. They can't explain how slavery was deemed moral yet they see it as immoral. What made it immoral when society elected it as moral?
DogFood631 1 month ago
4. Atheistic morals are immoral. Morals of atheism: abortion, homosexuality, perversion, legalized prostitution, legalized drugs, legalized porn, legalized child molestation, legalized adoption by homosexuals, denial of ALL Christian morals. No society can last very long with the above immoral system. Society is NOT the determiner of morals. Any society trying to use the above list wipes itself out. Absolute morals are absolutely necessary for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Freedom.
DogFood631 1 month ago
@DogFood631 You really don't have a clue about anything do you!?! That would be like me saying that theistic morality consists of "Child molesting, Aids pushing, suicide bombing, genocide, slavery, enforced genital mutilation of children etc etc etc". Oh wait that is what the theistic morality is and it is much better.
TheFish333333 1 month ago
5. Conclusion: Atheism is not reasonable, logical, nor intelligent. It is intellectually dishonest. DOES NOT MEET HUMAN NEEDS, takes hope, courage, joy and love out of the heart; it renders futile the desire for happiness which is found in every human soul. (The single greatest proof of all.) GOD EXISTS
See? Look at that, I just proved God exists.
DogFood631 1 month ago
@DogFood631 You can't prove god with an argument from logic. The description of god makes it a logical fallacy. Can God create a rock so big, even he cannot lift it? That is one of many contradictions you have to get over before you start bringing logic into this.
ScientificExploits 1 month ago
@DogFood631 The fact that something does not meet human needs, does not mean that that something is false.
TheStrangerInTheRye 1 month ago
@DogFood631 Two things are find very annoying:
Atheists who believe that the religious can't find solace and happiness in their faith.
Theists who have the stupid concept that the only way to seek joy in our lives is through a holy book.
Karateworm 2 weeks ago
I would like to hear Christopher's "elegant explanation" for first cause.
caseyspaos 5 months ago
Once again Christopher Hitchens is a pure master class!
jjoneil73 5 months ago 2
@graemealee Well said!!
jjoneil73 5 months ago
Thank you for posting this, HauensteinCenter.
writersblock26 5 months ago
Debates such as these are futile, people should stop acting nice and simply get into a fistfight over issues such as God and religion and have it done with once and for all.
Dodo251 6 months ago in playlist Christopher Hitchens vs. Peter Hitchens Debate
3:24 on.
This speech on monotheism being necessarily totalitarian, is his most brilliant (and immortal) speech ever.
lepolemicist 7 months ago
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"a celestial North Korea" LMAO!!!
angryafghan 7 months ago
Christopher's continued use of the phrase "One cannot mention WMDs in the same breath as Saddam...but" is the key to the disingenuous deceptiveness of his argument. First it is a sort of straw man --no one maintains he has never had WMDs or used them. Second he is confligating the beginning of time with when we invaded. Saddam's acts "Will be repeated." I would ask "How?" with 400 weapons inspectors there who agreed his capacity to do so was gone.
sinistar99 7 months ago
C.S. Lewis was an atheist.
rpsmith014 7 months ago
@rpsmith014 Was, yes. Then he became a Christian.
yurismir1 7 months ago
@yurismir1 Ah I see I just read up on it. He was a Christian until age 15, then converted back to Christianity years later. J.R.R. Tolkien must have been a persuasive arguer because that seldom happens.
rpsmith014 7 months ago
@rpsmith014 I don't know. I don't have statistics on these things.
yurismir1 7 months ago
What a great aehiest explanation.
johneamer 9 months ago
I love it when Hitch drops F-bombs on an unsuspecting crowd
JoshuaSummerside 9 months ago 9
@graemealee Israeli archaeologists discovered recently that the enslavement/exodus from Egypt was a COMPLETE fabrication. As it happens, Jehovah is a complete fabrication too. I think I'm seeing a pattern here....
iamnothowardhues 10 months ago
@5.00 Zoom in on Nip.
dilwich123 10 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
How could Mr. Hitchens, with a straight face and serious demeanor, talk negatively about religion as enslaving, when he is one of the most enslaved men in modern times: enslaved to alcohol, enslaved to tobacco...for which he is now, unfortunately, facing the horrible prospect of a terrible disease that is likely to take his life - enslaved to cancer and the prospect of premature death.
If you are persuaded by this argumentation, you are, also, enslaved to your own preconceptions and not logic.
kentuckypreacher 11 months ago
@kentuckypreacher Before actually reading your nieve and asinine comment, I had an idea of how intellectually sound it was going be after reading your youtube account name.
Dillingerman1 11 months ago 4
@kentuckypreacher hitchens once said that when your enemies resort to the ad hominem it's a sign of victory- it doesn't matter whose mouth it comes out of, it matters what is said.
commentersareidiots1 10 months ago
@kentuckypreacher You just missed the point mate. You are not forced to smoke or drink. It's up to you to decide to do so or not to do so. If you want to keep going that way - you're enslaved to oxygen too, but it doesn't mean that you're wrong about any topic you pick.
mastakam92 10 months ago
@kentuckypreacher Well done! That was the most ludicrous, non-argument I've ever encountered...and I've seen a few creationist vids in my time.
comanchio1976 9 months ago
@kentuckypreacher so by your "logic" slaves cannot speak of slavery because that would be illogical
jamrollz 8 months ago
Chris is magnificent. There is nothing I can add. BRAVO!!!!
Democrit1to9Freud 11 months ago 4
I just cannot believe that any Human Being can still believe Religion in the face of so much modern day evidence.
dilwich123 11 months ago 3
"I don't think its going to take 10 minutes to disprove the exsistance of God"
lol classic
doomrot 1 year ago 11
@doomrot Excellent.
shonpistoll 1 month ago
"You can fucking die and leave North Korea."
Oh but Christopher, you can die and leave God too...your ultimate liberty to die and be rid of Him forever is yours for the asking. God is no fascist. You get exactly what you want.
wjb67 1 year ago
@wjb67 no u dont, you go to the eternal flames according to the bible
MamaMario13 8 months ago
As much as I LOVE CH for his Iraq war views...I cannot stand his blithely ignorant stance on God and the shamefully self concious use of anthropomorphism with which he filters all arguement against the notion.
wjb67 1 year ago
I hate how this debate has to degrade into a god debate... who gives a fuck about that shit, why don't we debate about santa claus too?
ibreakkidslegs 1 year ago
@ibreakkidslegs
moron
SuperPatrick777 1 year ago
@ibreakkidslegs People don't kill and oppress in the name of Santa.
BoooDave 1 year ago
If we have resolved all these mysterious and problems, why do people still express a need for God?
FatalKnight 1 year ago
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@DishrackDarwin
it says that you are an atheist on your channel
are you?
you call me a liar, but i wonder if you realize that you are lying on your channel, wildcatskitten1
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
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@DishrackDarwin
it says on your channel that you are an atheist, are you?
yes or no
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
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@DishrackDarwin
liar?
it says on your channel that you are an atheist, are you an atheist?
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DishrackDarwin
liar?
it says on your channel that you are an atheist, are you an atheist?
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DishrackDarwin
liar?
it says on your channel that you are an atheist, are you an atheist?
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
@MrSeymourButtz
why do you not allow me to see or post on your channel, but you then get mad at me for taking down your posts on my channel?
strange
are you always this cowardly?
i do not know why i ask you questions, you never have the guts to answer, right es8?
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
@MrSeymourButtz
hi es8
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
@MrSeymourButtz
hi es8
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
@MrSeymourButtz
That video about the sock puppet troll megatruth aka bencubed,trans etc is a classic
I might post the link so that everyone can laugh at that retarded troll and his stupidity.
WildCatsKitten1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrSeymourButtz allow me to post on yours and i will let your comments stay on my channel
or
answer this question
are you es8?
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrSeymourButtz
allow me to post on yours and i will let your comments stay on my channel
or
answer this question
are you es8?
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrSeymourButtz
allow me to post on your channel and you can keep your comments on mine
simple
or
answer this-are you es8?
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
@MrSeymourButtz
thanks again
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
@MrMegatruth
hi bencubed
WildCatsKitten1 1 year ago
@MrSeymourButtz
thanks
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
Hitchens defines God in very narrow terms and only ever attacks what are in fact man made religious organisations or the ancient texts created by those religions.
In Einstein's biography by Walter Isaacson, when asked directly if he believed in god he replied: 'There is a spirit manifest in the laws of the universe in the face of which man should remain humbled and awed.'
Einstein also said: 'Science without religion is lame while religion without science is blind.'
theinfinitezero1 1 year ago
@theinfinitezero1
The second quote is misrepresented - turn the page and quote the following few lines for an accurate representation of Einsteins Pantheism.
TheDazmatron 1 year ago
@TheDazmatron My point was Hitchens, like many atheist scholars, uses Einstein to support his arguement but pantheism and atheism are fundementally different despite the claims of people like Richard Dawkins. If asked if the universe was created or happened by chance a pantheist would say the former but an atheist would not. As all truths are half-truths, it's hard to say who's right. Slán.
theinfinitezero1 1 year ago
@theinfinitezero1
Very well put. Point taken. My own point was simply to highlight Einstein's Pantheistic leanings rather than have people believe he was a theist. It's not likely that he was an atheist but certainly abandoned the Jewish beliefs with which he was brought up. Slán agus beannacht.
TheDazmatron 1 year ago
Hitch does not tell us what to believe, he points us as to where to look.
lavahead72 1 year ago
@graemealee You sure get around with that. ;-) On how many different sites have you posted it?
jimmo42 1 year ago
Atheism is a belief which cannot be proven, therefore it operates on faith, which by definition makes it a religious system. It focuses on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos, and human nature) which yield a set of religious laws, ethics, and a particular lifestyle. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience.
DogFood631 1 year ago
The claims to a morally superior high ground also pegs atheism as a religion. So it looks like you're going to have accept the fact that it is a religion. Deal with it.
DogFood631 1 year ago
@DogFood631 "The claims to a morally superior high ground also pegs atheism as a religion."
Uh, no it doesn't. There is no requirement to belief is some supernatural whatever to simply know certain things are wrong (i.e. murder, theft, rape). Not doing these things simply because it is wrong is obviously a higher morality than not doing them out of fear of eternal punishment or because you were ordered to.
jimmo42 1 year ago
@jimmo42 You're all confuse jimmyboy. Tell me how you know murder, theft, and rape are wrong?
DogFood631 1 year ago
@DogFood631 "Tell me how you know murder, theft, and rape are wrong? "
Well doggy, any intelligent person can see that it is self evident. You don't need a 2000-year-old myth or a man in a funny hat to tell you that no one has the right to harm another without cause. This does not change depending on which page in your mythology book you read.
On the other hand, I am a convinced you are troll. No one who is able to breath on their own can believe like you do.
jimmo42 1 year ago
@DogFood631 "Atheism is a belief "
Uh, no. Atheism is the *absence* of a belief in a supernatural being. Not believing there is a magical world inside of the sun with fairies, unicorns and hobbits does not constitute a religion, either. Therefore, the rest of your arguments quite simply fall apart.
jimmo42 1 year ago
@DogFood631
I'm afraid you've gotten it wrong. Atheism is not a belief. It is disbelief. I think that is all I need to say to render your comment or viewpoint futile.
TheDazmatron 1 year ago
@TheDazmatron I'm afraid you got it wrong or you're just a liar. Most atheists are liars is that what we have? Atheism is a belief. If it were just a disbelief atheists wouldn't be here constantly blabbering and claiming their beliefs. Personally I don't believe in atheists.
DogFood631 1 year ago
@DogFood631
I don't think you are aware of how this works. I'll try to put is as simply as possible - You guys believe in something - us guys don't believe in it (disbelief). A platform or forum such as this allows us to converse or debate on the issue.
That's pretty simple.
TheDazmatron 1 year ago
@DogFood631
God's intelligence is absolute and thus he wants people in his presence that are intelligent. He created the bible as a test. Not to test our morality, but to test our intelligence. Those who realize that it is a myth have earned the right to spend eternity with God. This is proven by the fact the smarter and more educated people are the less religious they are. They have learned what God wants them to know and are thus "saved".
jimmo42 1 year ago
@jimmo42 LOL WTF? SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT IS GOING ON HERE
Territomauvais 1 year ago
@DogFood631 .atheism is not a belief.How cvan you not believe in atheists?that the most stupid thing ive ever read.Ateism is not a ideology and doctrine.Anaylse the word a-theism and think again.
laudrup90 7 months ago
@laudrup90 Can you prove it asshole??? IT IS an ideology. And you assholes are worse than the door-to-door fundies. At least they never come to my door insulting me. They are always pleasant and leave when I tell them I'm not interested. BUT YOU you're a fucking flaming asshole. Why don't YOU come to my door so I can punch your chickenshit lights out? AND no, there is no such thing as an atheist. GOT IT?
DogFood631 6 months ago
@laudrup90 hahahahhaa you're so upset you can't even type. hahaha You're in denial. If it's not a belief why is there the FIRST CHURCH OF ATHEISM? Yeah, it's a belief. If it weren't you wouldn't be here yapping about it. You'd be out having fun somewhere.
FAIL
DogFood631 5 months ago
@DogFood631 Wait.... are you being serious or are you dense? The "First Church of Atheism" doesn't denote belief at all. Atheism is neither religion nor belief; it is quite the opposite. The last couple sentences of your reply don't even make sense. So if there's anybody groping thin air, it's you. Look at it this way: if atheism was a belief, being bald is a hairstyle - that one's a classic. It's a stretch, you could say so if you'd like, but it's simply not true. Not in the slightest.
imjoebrady 2 months ago
North Korea? hahahaha excellent example of atheism in action and in place as the official religion. Bad choice for an example Chris.
MaximusArurealius 1 year ago
(continued) his inability to share with his cousins.
pythor2 1 year ago
@pythor2 The problem with evolutionists is that they are narrow-minded, loud-mouth assholes with no understanding of science OR evolution which are two entirely different things. They can't imagine that science can cause someone to become a creationist without the Bible as I have done. Science in fact completely disproves evolution.
MaximusArurealius 1 year ago
@MaximusArurealius
"narrow-minded, loud mouthed assholes"
hello pot, meet kettle
MrMegatruth 1 year ago
@MaximusArurealius
I'm dumbfounded - entirely unsure what so say. Perhaps a question - are you serious? And... if so.... how do you expect any thinking being to take you seriously?
TheDazmatron 1 year ago
@TheDazmatron You're dumb? I have found you dumb? Thinking being? There aren't any of those in here. And take me seriously? You should, as I'm the only person here who knows what he's talking about.
MaximusArurealius 1 year ago
That is the problem with Christians. It isn't that they choose to be closeminded to discussions such as these, but instead, their God tells them to. Rough quote from the bible, "There will be false prophets among you, and you must shut your mind to them." That is EXACTLY the problem we are facing today. They aren't choosing to not chase knowledge...Their God is.
That doesn't seem like a very loving God to not share his knowledge. In fact it sounds just like my 4-year-old nephew and (continued)
pythor2 1 year ago
DARWIN??? He is the nutcase with no science training who practiced witchcraft and danced naked around the campfires of South American pagans and then concocted the out-dated, 19th century, bullshit hoax called evolution. He didn't know anything about genetics since he was so stupid as to marry one of his own cousins and with predictable resulting offspring.
DogFood631 1 year ago
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@DogFood631 "He didn't know anything about genetics since he was so stupid as to marry one of his own cousins and with predictable resulting offspring."
..facepalm......lurch groan....
Please tell us you are troll. PLEASE!!! The whole science of genetics was founded (more or less) by Gregor Mendel whose work was published AFTER Darwin's "On the Origin of Species". Isn't it logical that Darwin didn't know anything about genetics? It didn't exist then!
jimmo42 1 year ago
Comment removed
MaximusArurealius 1 year ago
Christopher wins! always!
marcohorowitz8 1 year ago 4
I wish I could speak so lucidly on the subject. He just has all the right words at his fingertips. Sam Harris is very good too if you haven't heard him yet.
warren52nz 1 year ago 3
I agree with everyone else here who feels that C. Hitchens articulated his argument against the existence of god at least as well as he ever has. The desire for totalitarianism angle was brilliant.
DRok112 1 year ago
I'd really like it if the made comments available at the 14th vid, leave it disabled in the first 13. Too many people are jumping the gun...and I see less and less views as I keep watching
Dethonator 1 year ago
Christopher is at his best when he discusses religion and nonbelief; he seems to be at his worst when he discusses politics.
JonDavidson 1 year ago
@JonDavidson
You've already been addressed.
Why don't you contend against his arguments instead of making a, in my opinion, fatuous and unfounded claim.
l3lip 1 year ago
@l3lip , oh, wow, I have already been addressed. I guess that means any future comments are a waste of valuable cyberspace.
Thank you for your unsolicited opinion of the nature of my claims......
JonDavidson 1 year ago
@JonDavidson
Anytime.
l3lip 1 year ago
@l3lip , by the way: bite me.
MaskedMarvyl 1 year ago
@MaskedMarvyl
Uhh...
l3lip 1 year ago
At least you can fucking die and leave North Korea!
jaysonvalentine 1 year ago 2
Christopher Hitchens i choose you!!!
Use Intelligent argument.
It's Super Effective!
XD
luarionte 1 year ago
"Error has no rights." That was the stupid idea which led the Catholic Church to oppress people. And that same stupid idea has been adopted by many of the new Atheists. Religious and nonreligious people can oppress when they hold that error has no rights. "The Case for Civility" by Os Guinness is a warning we should all take heed of.
BBBradH 1 year ago
10 min of pure brilliance !!!
Marcusvdgg71 1 year ago 3
This is the clip that I send friends who express any interest in atheism. It concisely sums up all of his points in a short ten minutes.
pblock76 1 year ago
I have never heard encapsulated so perfectly the tyranny of religion. Bravo Hitchens. Get well soon by the way.
BBMix 1 year ago
This is probably Christopher's most detailed, lucid and concise summation of his strongest arguments, and I've seen most of his video debates.
Naabenstadt 1 year ago 38
@Naabenstadt You're absolutely right. This is CH's most detailed, lucid and concise summation of his strongest arguments. Which just shows you how weak he is. This twerp is everything that is wrong with both journalism and the petrified, vaccuus, sterile intellectuality of the university movement which is being rejected more quickly by today's youth than the Church is. I've been interviewed many times and all journalists come with the storey already written. The profession is dead.
Marxisto1 1 year ago
@Naabenstadt
I like it - alot, but allied to your position; I too have seen most of his video clips and also a live debate in Trinity College Dublin 4 years ago. However, I don't think it's his best - have a look at his reply to a question at the Christian book expo where he invokes Joseph Freitzel - very colourful. Also his demolition of Rabbi Shmuley is interesting. He doesn't do so well with Dinesh D'Souza though
TheDazmatron 1 year ago
This is the first time I've ever seen C. Hitchens speak without simultaneously slurping down some alcoholic beverage, and - man - he is way better than I expected him to be.
MrCattlehunter 1 year ago
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best christopher hitchens speech. fucking crushed it
briancolejennifer 1 year ago
Hades and Zeus don't care what you do in the Eleysian fields, They leave you alone. Minus 1 heaven.
pervertedmind 1 year ago
seany505,
Job 7:19-21 " How long? Will You look away from me, and let me alone till I swallow my saliva? Have I sinned? What have I done to You, O watcher of men? Why have You set me as Your target, So that I am a burden to myself? Why then do You not pardon my transgression, And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust, and you will seek me diligently, but I will no longer be."
This very much sounds that Job is asking why he is suffering by a loving God=the problem of evil.
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
No, this is not really the problem of evil because in this passage Job is not questioning god's existence. But, then again, most characters in the Bible (like all theistic texts) are mindless sheep do I wouldn't expect him to have that sort of intelligence and free-thought.
seany505 1 year ago
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seany505:
"I find fault in you because you follow Christianity."
"most characters in the Bible (like all theistic texts) are mindless sheep do I wouldn't expect him to have that sort of intelligence and free-thought."
Seany, Do you hear yourself? You find fault in us for following Jesus, call God corrupt and immoral and all the mean while not *one* bit of LOVE comes from you. . .
You're being decieved, friend.
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
That's the first time I have heard him make a factual mistake. Cro Magnon man is modern man, they lived alongside Neanderthals in Europe 30Kya.
Tapecutter59 1 year ago
@Tapecutter59 , actually, it seems we still do live alongside Neanderthals.
JonDavidson 1 year ago
And remember everytime Hitchens says that we have better explanations for the mysteries of life: that we aren't created in the image of God, being called back to Him in love and don't have souls.
We all share the common ancestor of banana's, palm trees and pond water hit by lightining. We have no souls, no actual(!) grounds for morality -just the populace' consensus and love, care and emotion is all a chemical reaction and a delusion as well...
Thats what he's saying, correct?
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
Yes that is what he is saying, and it's alot better than the totalitarian and cruel god you see in the Bible. A 'good' book with a morality inferior to every atheist I know. And what do you have against nature exactly? I would much rather share my ancestry with all the beautiful and diverse beings on this Earth, than being made out of dirt. Which is what god did.
seany505 1 year ago
"morality inferior to every atheist I know."
By what standard do you compare this too? Where does that standard come from?
"alot better than the totalitarian and cruel god you see in the Bible."
God in the Bible revealed Himself in Jesus Christ and He is none of these things. Are you refering to the OT conquering of the promised land? Have you researched these events and why they were called to be? Who was in the land before the previous inhabitants?
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
This standard of morality is innate in all people (naturally sociopaths and psychopaths excluded). Partly because of our superior intelligence and thus our unique empathic abilities. And partly because of the instinctive evolutionary altruism.
seany505 1 year ago
And if you don't accept that your god is less 'good' than even a reasonably moral person, you haven't read the Bible, or you are in denial. Your god has killed hundreds of thousands in the Old AND New Testament. He made someone's guts fall out for no reason. He ordered Moses to BUTCHER men, women, and children. They spared a few children for slaves, and some young virgin women for sexual slaves. In NO context would an omnibenevolent god ever endorse such actions.
seany505 1 year ago
"Your god has killed hundreds of thousands in the Old AND New Testament."
Will you cite the book, chapter and verses in the New Testament where God kill hundreds of thousands?
"He made someone's guts fall out for no reason."
Will you cite me the book, chapter and verses where this happened for no reason?
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
I don't need to cite these sources. I could. But it would be easier to direct you to someone who makes whole videos about it. Have you heard of NonStampCollector? Go to his YouTube channel. He ridicules the Judeo-Christian god, and virtually every time he does so, he backs it up with a Bible chapter and verse citation. Watch a few of his videos and you will have a VERY good idea of what I'm talking about. Also, go to my YouTube channel and see some of my other subscribed channels.
seany505 1 year ago
And these examples are only a few of many.
seany505 1 year ago
On top of all this, back to the morality issue, there are many atheistic-in-nature belief systems which are very moral. Just to name a few: Buddhism, Confucianism & Humanism. These beliefs all have a MUCH better track record than Christianity. I can't even think of an instance when a Buddhist killed in the name of Buddhism or Buddha.
seany505 1 year ago
The wisdom of Buddha compared to people such as Jesus is blindingly obvious. Buddha is arguably the first person ever to discover the problem of evil. He realized (quite naturally like all intelligent men) whilst walking through the slums of a disgusting urban backwater 2500 years ago that such suffering means that a all-loving and all-powerful god CANNOT exist, such an entity in our universe is a universal negative.
seany505 1 year ago
I don't want to bash people such as Guatama Buddha. But you are calling the Bible nonsense and then speaking about a man who believes that he went through countless lifeforms before becoming a man and then saw a corrupt world and taught to empty *all* of your mind to have peace.
He is presumed to have lived in 560-480 BC, this rules out him being the first man to know the problem of evil. By far.
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
Buddha's teachings were written down almost 400 years after he lived. Yet the Gospels are trying to be ruled out for being written in the decades right after Christ resurected. This is inconsistent criticism.
How much Buddha (Guatama) actually said is beyond identifiable or reliable when put the current standards of critique. Its a faith based decision to trust what is written.
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
I have already explained how Buddha doesn't have to believed. It is your choice, and you can believe either way without punishment or reward. It isn't his vanity that he is doing it for, or some deity, he is just showing you a possible route to freedom from Samsara [suffering]. Freedom from suffering is a reward obviously, if you want to call it that.
This is why nowone has criticised the historicity because Buddhism's open-mindedness and atheistic nature has made it unnecessary.
seany505 1 year ago
To be honest, you might not even regard Buddhism as a religion, because that word has theistic and dogmatic connotations. It is more like a philosophy (eg. Marxism or capitalism).
seany505 1 year ago
According to "Buddhist Scriptures" by Edward Conze (1959):
"For the first five hundred years the Scriptures were orally transmitted. They were written down only at the beginning of the Christian era, because at that time the decline in faith threatened their continued survival in the memories of the monks. Different schools wrote down different things. [...] The years between A.D. 100 and 400 were the golden age of Buddhist literature."
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
What's your point that 100 AD - 400 AD is the Golden Age of Buddhist literature? It was probably because the Indian subcontinent's Empire of that time made it their state religion.
seany505 1 year ago
I think this shows that when put to the scrutiny the Bible has been facing even now, that Guatama Buddha's words don't hold up with authenticity or historicity.
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
Guatama Buddha isn't held by all Buddhists to be a historical character. Buddhists and Buddhism are not dogmatic, unlike Christians and Christianity. Buddha's life (or lack of) is seen as relatively unimportant, it was his TEACHINGS that are important. He merely was trying to help every person free themselves from Samsara [suffering] by finding Bodhi [enlightenment] in this life (one of the reasons why Buddhism is atheistic).
seany505 1 year ago
"Buddhists and Buddhism are not dogmatic, unlike Christians and Christianity."
Dogma's and principals aren't inherently evil. You have to discern whether or not the teaching is wrong.
Jesus is loving, kind and full of grace. The Gospels testify to this. He doesn't threaten with hell, he warns of it.
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
Dogmas and principles ARE evil if they are based on lies, 'faith' and a primitive 'reward and punishment' system. And have you actually read the Bible? It is one of the best arguments against Christianity in the mind of any rational reader.
seany505 1 year ago
The following fact surprised me a little: apparently only 10% of the world's 2 billion Christians have actually read the Bible. The FOUNDATIONAL book of your religion. It's like me saying I know evolution is a fact without first looking at the science. (Btw I've looked at the science and it's absolutely a fact.) In the Bible Jesus says he will "cast into the flames" anyone who doesn't believe in him! How is that loving and not vindictive! And how different is that from what Buddha said lol? ¬¬
seany505 1 year ago
"apparently only 10% of the world's 2 billion Christians have actually read the Bible."
I highly doubt there are 2 billion Christians in the world anyway. And these statistics give evidence to that. Many people 'check' the 'Christian' box on surveys, this doesn't mean anything.
About reading the Bible (which I do and love) many Christians in persecuted countries get arrested for having Bibles and many are arrested and killed for trying to deliver them.
take 10 minutes to google this..
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
I agree with you when you say that a lot of people tick the Christian box when they shouldn't, but there are still alot of Christians. And by the way, in all modern/civilised countries nowone is persecuted fro holding a Bible. There are backward theocracies that might do this, but there are also backward theocracies that punish people for possessing a Quran, the Pali Canon, the Torah, or none at all (ie. atheism).
seany505 1 year ago
"And by the way, in all modern/civilised countries nowone is persecuted fro holding a Bible"
I highly disagree. Februaury 2010, in Florida 2 young men were shotgunned down after telling the Gospel to another man (google it).
"modern/civilised countries", as in America? We are not that civilized when viewed through morality's eyes.
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
I think that is the problem now, you think we are 'modern' and 'civilized' and do no wrong, and then judge God's goodness.
Porn, Gangs, Abortion, Sodomy, Murder, Greed, Corrupt Justice...
The Bible may not be illegal in the US *today*, but if things continue down the road they're on; it will be.
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
So the Bible is accepted, huh?
HAVE YOU NOT NOTICED THAT YOU LOG ONTO YOUTUBE EVERYDAY TO BASH THE BIBLE (!?!) AND WRITE THINGS SUCH AS (quoted from your comments):
"People can be good without barbaric Bronze Age beliefs."
"it's the fact that you go to Jesus that is the problem. Christianity is a barbaric and intellectually barren religion."
Barbaric and Intellectually barren?? This is slander, friend. Saying 'its not true' is not slander? See the line you cross?
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
@thelionsshare100
That's not slander you waste of two pounds of brain matter.
The Bible is totally barbaric, it contains incest (by the bucket-full) it contains rape (by the bucket-full) it contains genocide with little reason for it..
Of course the Bible is barbaric, if you deny this you're an idiot.
Lemme guess, you're a theist?
BelfastAtheist 1 year ago
@BelfastAtheist "Of course the Bible is barbaric, if you deny this you're an idiot.
Lemme guess, you're a theist?"
I'll be the Theist and you can be the mocker. Who contains more love?
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
@thelionsshare100
Why would I contain less love than you?
Pretty rude to psychoanalyze me from a youtube comment. I just like debating that's all, your original comment irritated me and I replied to it, now excuse me while I go carry on my loveless existence..
BelfastAtheist 1 year ago
@thelionsshare100 The mocker. He is honest enough to tell you what he thinks of you, rather than hide behind a veneer moral superiority.
qqs764 1 year ago
@BelfastAtheist Those characteristics you listed are the reason I like the bible. Its entertaining
AsSomedayItMayHappen 1 year ago
When did I say the Bible is accepted? It is accepted by some people, but that is irrelevant. In Nazi Germany Hitler's regime was 'accepted' by virtually all of Germany's citizens.
And I'm not slandering. Even though I might be a bit 'audacious' sometimes, I can assure you it's nothing ad hominem, it is merely intellectual enthusiasm. And comments such as "intellectually barren" are simply a more illustrious way of saying "it isn't true and is slightly odd".
seany505 1 year ago
You do not understand Buddhism, or any of its similar teachings (eg. the Three Doctrines). Buddha said that you do not need to believe anything he said, I've told you this already.
seany505 1 year ago
"You do not understand Buddhism, or any of its similar teachings. . . Buddha said that you do not need to believe anything he said"
I don't believe what he said about life and he also said I don't have to.
So where do you find fault in me?
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
I find fault in you because you follow Christianity. Which is quite frankly a joke. As it should be for a tribal superstition invented 2000 years ago. And as I've said this discussion isn't even supposed to be about Buddhism, it is supposed to be directed at your peculiar world view.
seany505 1 year ago
He is not preachy, fanatic, or dogmatic. He was merely putting a view 'out-there'. Like "This is what I believe will free you from suffering. You will not be punished for disobeying me, you have a free will and a right to an opinion. But, I would like it if you did some of the things I said because I genuinely care about your happiness." That is Buddha in a nutshell. Basically harmless.
seany505 1 year ago
seany505,
"This is what I believe will free you from suffering." History has shown that this will not free you from suffering in life. Jesus has even said that the suffering will not cease, but He will be there with us.
Saying a view will eliminate suffering is a large claim and I don't see the evidence in the world to affirm what Buddha has said.
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
Precisely, Jesus' teaching that "because humans are tainted our suffering will never end", and if you dogmatically pursue his bronze age fantasies that will help you. If this truly is Jesus' message then it is a philosophy of failure, it is a philosophy of pessimism, it is a philosophy of hopelessness - like all Christianity.
seany505 1 year ago
And some Buddhist monks have actually 'freed' themselves from suffering (observe a few of the Himalayan communes). And their truly Enlightened life style has given them skills and knowledge the inferior Abrahamic and theistic practitioners have never possessed. Whilst Catholic clergy fiddle children, and Protestants teach bullshit like creationism, Buddhist monks push the boundaries of human aesthetics, wisdom, and empiric senses.
seany505 1 year ago
Did you know that in - 8 C Buddhist monks dried the wet towel draped around them? Did you know that Buddhist monks can 'leave' their bodies because of meditation? When they leave their bodies they actually become indifferent to pain, in this state they can become virtually immune to things like torture.
seany505 1 year ago
All the above proves that theistic 'spirituality' leads to a shallow and meaningless religious lifestyle. Which is inevitable because theism is built on half-truths and lies, and how can a lifestyle built on that ever be good?
seany505 1 year ago
Additionally, have you heard of Dharma? This is the Buddhist belief that anyone can be a Buddha, and you don't have to follow all of Buddha's teachings to be a Buddhist. You can search for Enlightenment in whatever way you see fit, and you can help others seek it in whatever way you see fit. Of course this is not completely open, there are a few things that all Buddhists should agree on (eg. don't kill, don't steal ..).
seany505 1 year ago
"You can search for Enlightenment in whatever way you see fit. . . "
I go to Jesus for wisdom, discernment, grace and the abundance of love, this doesn't conflict with your view...
". . . and you can help others seek it in whatever way you see fit."
"In whatever way you see fit" leaves a lot of room for people to twist this into their own false teaching.
thelionsshare100 1 year ago
Exactly, it's the fact that you go to Jesus that is the problem. Christianity is a barbaric and intellectually barren religion. To be honest, I don't care that much about Buddhism, this discussion has just taken a big detour because you desired to focus on Buddhism for some reason.
seany505 1 year ago
And "in whatever way you see fit" does allow wiggle room, but as I've already said, there are some things that you should all agree on. For instance the "Four Noble Truths", the "Eightfold Wheel" and the "three marks of existence". Look them up. And the fact is Buddhism isn't about grovelling before some fictional bearded god, it's about empowerment. If you don't even remotely follow Dharma then you will just not reap its benefits, and Samsara will continue.
seany505 1 year ago
There is no heaven or hell or deities in Buddhism, Buddhism is about making yourself and others virtuous and happy in THIS life.
And by the way, you are speaking shit. Out of the commonly cited, Epicurus (an ancient Greek who lived c. 300 BCE) is credited with first proposing the problem of evil. But Buddha had already pondered something along similar lines. It is understandable though because we have always placed classicism in a position of centricity.
seany505 1 year ago
"And by the way, you are speaking shit. Out of the commonly cited, Epicurus (an ancient Greek who lived c. 300 BCE) is credited with first proposing the problem of evil. But Buddha had already pondered something along similar lines"
The Book of Genesis was written 1450-1410 BC and constantly speaks of evil and sin. Whether you accept it as truth or not is not in debate, man has been aware of cruelty and evil almost from the beginning.
thelionsshare100 1 year ago