I want you all to know that I know the LDS church is false. I know the BOM is false. I know Joe Smith was a false prophet of God and I know Thomas S. Monson is a living false prophet.
I want you all to know that I know the LDS church is false. I know the BOM is false. I know Joe Smith was a false prophet of God and I know Thomas S. Monson is a living false prophet.
I want you all to know that I know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. I know The Book of Mormon is true. I know Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God and I know Thomas S. Monson is the living Prophet.
@DerZanDa Carbon copy testimonies do not affect anyone.
Are you saying Christianity does not bear the same testimonies???That Jesus is the Christ etc.Do you Not All Claim the Very same Testimonies of Jesus Christ? Hmmmmmmmm.Interesting
@UtahMormon90 Mormon forefathers bore their testimonies for a different set of doctrines that are now said to be false by the current LDS church.Some of these doctrines were: Adam as God, polygamy is essential to salvation, blacks will be denied the priesthood until the second comming of Christ, and blood atonment. If your forefathers testimonies can't be trusted, what makes you so sure yours can be trusted? What makes you better then them?
Look at their age, Where in all the world would you get such lovely and holsum men to be a guide to the world and the members of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of latterday Saints?- Only in the presence and countenance of our Saviour. james 1 v5 Find out for yourselves
II Corinthians 11:3-4 3:But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupt from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4: For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. God's Word is so awsome, God knew the devil would come up with his false gospel, his "another" gospel.
@beatleman69 With respect. You may know of the saviour you may hear off the saviour and you may speak off the Saviour. However, Do You Know Him?
JESUS CHRIST is the cornerstone of our religion, not! Joseph Smith as people High Light him to be. I belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saints and I Know my Saviour that same Jesus the Christ which walked the Shores of Galilee. And I testify of Joseph Smith as a Modern Day Prophet Just as Noah was a Modern Day Prophet in his Day
@MongoSoose You're right, religion, thats all you have. The Bible speaks without error. If God brought another gospel, then thats saying God just came up with something else, cause his prior word failed, thats what LDS teaches. Obviously you don't understand II Corinthians 11:3-4. Paul warns us about another gospel that is not of God but of man. The Bible is God's Word period. Is Jesus God? The Bible says He is the Word of God that came in the flesh. Read the Bible, you'll find the truth there.
@beatleman69 Well this year we are learning from the New Testiment 28th lesson from Christmas after finishing Old Testiment and currently studing from Acts 3–4. Peter and John heal a lame man and testify that the man was healed by the power of Jesus Christ. The Apostles pray for and receive great power through the Holy Ghost. The Bible is the word of God and the Book of Mormon is a companion to the Bible; which bares testimony of Jesus the Christ of Judea.
@MongoSoose The book of mormon is NOT some additional book, the Bible is the ONLY Word of God, do not be deceived. Galations 1:8-9 says "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed." 9: "As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach another gospel unto you than that we have received, let him be accursed". Read the Bible, study it, you'll find the REAL Jesus, I promise you! I want to help you.
@beatleman69 beatleman69, with respect.This world cannot hold the amount of scripture the Lord has to reveal. The Bible is the word of God However, Man decided which books went into it and remember Mathew Mark Luke and John are written after the Book of Revalations and you do not need to take my word on that one. Beatleman69 I am not looking to be right on anything I share. Paul knew of his Death coming and knew a false gospel was going to be taught soon after the apostles where all dead.
@MongoSoose John was the only apostle that died a natural death, all the others were martered therefore the 4 gospels were not written after the book of Revelation, sorry. The Bible, the Word of God was inspired by the Holy Ghost, not man's understanding. Yeh you're right, books cannot contain everything Jesus did, but it didn't wind up in the book of mormon and Jesus never came to pre-colonial america either. They only tell you that to try to legitimise the LDS church, don't believe it! Please!
@beatleman69 Well we certainly do not deny the Bible as the word of God I teach of it, my favourite Scripture of all scripture written is from St John 13 v 34. And the books that Man did not put in where are they? The Apocrypha maybe But then the Protestant Christian Church decided that they where not inspired So they did not include them into the Bible. How many other books where not included? Guess the world has the Dead Sea Scrolls or do we? What is your opinion BeatleMan69?
@MongoSoose I'm not real sure on how many books, I know of two from the Old Testiment, the book of Enoch and Macabeese (if I spelled that right). Some books written in ancient times were more or less historical accounts not God's Word per say. When God spoke the word to the OT prophets God to them to write it down so when they gave God's message to the people of that day there was no mistake. Do you believe Jesus is God and not a god?
@beatleman69 BeatleMan69 I live ten miles south of Belfast and it is 3;28 in the morning so I will answer your very Interesting question to-morrow or sunday . bye for now
@MongoSoose *This world cannot hold the amount of scripture the Lord has to reveal.* That may be true, but any new scripture certainly wouldn't inherit man-made problems from the KJV as the BoM obviously does. Placing the BoM above the Bible puts you in a strange position of critiquing the Bible from the viewpoint of a sceptic.
"The important consideration is not how long we can live but how well we can learn the lesson of life, and discharge our duties and obligations to God and to one another." Joseph Smith Jr.
"I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved."
Each heartfelt prayer, each Church meeting attended, each worthy friend, each righteous decision, each act of service perfomed all precede that goal of eternal life.
Ephesians 4:11 King James Version ) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry....
The nearer a person approaches the Lord, a greater power will be manifested by the adversary to prevent the accomplishment of His purposes." Joseph Smith Jr.
"Let us never forget to pray. God lives. He is near. He is real. He is not only aware of us but cares for us. He is our Father. He is accessible to all who will seek Him."
Zero archeological evidence + zero genetic evidence + numerous different accounts of the first vision + numerous false prophecies = equals a religion built on falsehoods. Joseph was a treasure digger who was renowned for his story telling. Deuteronomy is clear that a true prophet of God must be right 100% of the time. Smith fails this test. For example, no 6 ft tall Quakers on the moon. No temple in Independence, MO. No 56 yrs until Christ returned
Matthew 23 ; 16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
@999LDS finish the passage if you are going to quote scripture,
Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
It is a passage against trying to weasle out of oaths that are made by using an incomplete passage you are sugesting something not true.
@Jonathan2342 Galatians 1 : 6-8 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!...... The Bom IS a different gospel.
@Jonathan2342 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Matthew 7:13-14.
@999LDS I couldn't agree more, the BOM is the largest crock of manuer that was produced in the 19th century. Which was not my point. your prior post suggested, IMO, that it was OK for believers to make false oaths because only 1/2 of the passage was quoted. And, since we are quoting verses,
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
@Jonathan2342 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
So if faith doesnt need works then how does one show faith in Him?Simply by believing and nothn else?
If that be true.That it is gods free gift then it must be gods will to give it to anyone he wishes.Arbitrarily without one having to even believe in or accept Jesus as Savior?As in the case of the thief on the cross?
@jferristube The last words of the their on the cross was "Remember me when you come into your Kingdom" A clear admission that Jesus is who he say he is.
For a gift, you need two parties, somebody to offer the gift and somebody to accept it. The gift of salvation is offered to everybody, unfortunately, not everybody accepts it because to accept it means to accept Christ as Lord. Also, a gift has to have no strings attached. otherwise, it is just a commercial transaction. think relationship
@Jonathan2342 today shalt thou be with me in paradise"
But paradise is not the Kingdom of Heaven
He told the thief...This day thou shalt be with me in paradise.Jesus did go to paradise that day but Not to His fathers Kingdom/the Kingdom of god.The bible clearly shows it.The whole of Christiandom believes the thief got into heaven that day.And most dismiss the need for baptism bcos of this fallacy.Paradise and the Kingdom of God are Not the same place
@jferristube You are referring to Abraham's bosom, which Jesus is believed to have descended to to pick up those who died before the crucifiction. When Jeus died, it is believed he descended to Abraham's bosom and took those souls to heaven. That being said, even if I grant paradise is Abraham's bosom, he would have been taken to heaven immediately afterwards.
Sorry Im not. Im referring to the term Paradise.As you also do.
Jesus 3 days after His death on the morning of His resurrection had still not gone to His Fathers Kingdom.He had gone to Paradise/Abrahams bosom perhaps as you infer but certainly the thief did not go to the Kingdom of God on that day.Most of Christianity say the thief went strait to Heaven.He did not.No more than Christ did.Where did Christ go that day nd the next 3? To Paradise.
@Jonathan2342 he would have been taken to heaven immediately afterwards.
Certainly the thief Was taken to paradise as opposed to going to suffer in hell as where no doubt the other dud ended up.He wanted proof of the Saviors divinity in his request and challenge to the Christ to save the 3 of them by climbing down off the cross.Which I know Christ had the power to do.We both know why He did Not.
1of 2: The thief on the Cross made a simple appeal. Remember me when you come in your kingdom. It is translated as come into, but from the original greek we know it is actually come in your kingdom. The difference does not see, much but it is very, very significant. To come into his kingdom was 40 days after the resurrection. To come in his kingdom has not happened yet. See the significance? Continued...
What Christ answered is best expressed as you don't have to wait...I will tell you right now. That is the form and meaning of Verily, verily...(what I am about to say is important) You will be with me in Paradise. To see it any other way is to call Christ a liar as He knew that the thief would not be with him in Paradise for a long long time. There are many scriptures that back this up, relating to asking of God and receiving. Would you like them?
Again I dont deny the thief would be in paradise.Christ promised him that.Paradise! Im saying Paradise is Not the Kingdom of God.The river spoken of flows thru Paradise its source most definitely comes from the throne of god as your quoted verses say.Not denying any of that.The tree of life is described as being in the midst of paradise but again Im saying the Kingdom of god is not Paradise.They are 2 seperate places.
No question about it? Christ made no such promise. A comma did. The original Greek had no punctuation. The belief that Paradise was in hell comes from Greek mythology and became a part of Jewish folk lore after the second century AD./ 2 Corinthians 12:4 Paradise according to Paul "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter" How can Paradise be up and down?
You are propping up a Mormon lie that does not reconcile with the biblical scriptures. "Second time Ive had to clarify this fact." And for the second time I have to tell you the truth and that is that you are wrong and do not know the Bible. Check the original greek and tell me how you place the comma before and not after "today" . I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise. Paradise is the Kingdom of God Silly Mormon. Prove me wrong through the Bible.
@jonathandavid33 Paradise is the Kingdom of God Silly Mormon. Prove me wrong through the Bible.
Its not about me proving you wrong bro. Its whether you really want to know the truth cos I can show you using the Bible that Paradise is NOT the Kingdom of God.Christ did Not go to the Kingdom of God after His death on that very same day.He went to Paradise.Paradise is Not the Kingdom of God.
Christ said no man can enter there without Baptism by water nd fire.Simple
@jonathandavid33 Paradise is the Kingdom of God Silly Mormon. Prove me wrong through the Bible.
Okay you want proof.
On the Sunday when the Lord resurrected from the dead and received His now immortal glorified perfected (never to die again) body.Who was the very first mortal to see him and be the first witness of His resurrection?When that person reached forward to touch the Saviour what did the Savior say to that person?
He said..."touch me Not for I have Not yet ...cont
"Not yet ascended to my Father who is in Heaven" Where does the Father dwell Jonathan?In His Kingdom.The kingdom of god.Right?
So on the 3rd day Christ by his own mouth testifies that he had not yet entered the kingdom of His Father.Heres your absolute proof that the Kingdom of God and paradise are definitely Not the same place.Simple.While his mortal body lay in the tomb.Christ as a spirit went to Paradise as he claimed and took the thief with him
"Christ by his own mouth testifies that he had not yet entered the kingdom of His Father.Heres your absolute proof that the Kingdom of God and paradise are definitely Not the same place".
Lol... You are a silly one... Christ did not enter into Paradise as He said. That is where God Dwells. Explain what Paul said about being caught up in the third Heaven. He explains it to be Paradise. Up means up does it not? How could Christ have been three days in the ground which is up?
@jonathandavid33 Explain what Paul said about being caught up in the third Heaven. He explains it to be Paradise.
And paradise is not the Kingdom of God
On the morning of His resurrection He told mary to not touch Him for He ...Had Not Yet Ascended to His Father in Heaven.He had gone up but only to the 3rd Heaven.Not to where His Father was.Only the goats believe anything else.Paradise is Not the Kingdom of God.
"On the morning of His resurrection He told mary to not touch Him for He ...Had Not Yet Ascended to His Father in Heaven.He had gone up but only to the 3rd Heaven.Not to where His Father was.Only the goats believe anything else.Paradise is Not the Kingdom of God" What you say is not supported by the BIble. I already proved that Paradise is Heaven. I can't help it if God has made you blind.
@jonathandavid33 I already proved that Paradise is Heaven. I can't help it if God has made you blind.
Made me blind???LOL
Only a fool wud deny that Jesus told Mary Not to touch Him.The account clearly states Christ said...Touch me Not for I have NOT YET ASCENDED to my Father in Heaven. He went up to the third Heaven which we both agree is what Paul said.There are 3 levels of Heaven.Christ went to the 3rd level upon his death ie Paradise. .. Cont
@jonathandavid33 and had still not by the Sunday morning gone to his Fathers Kingdom.He declared that fact to Mary on that Sunday morning.Read it ...Its right ther in my bible anyway.Maybe not yours but it definitely is in mine...the KJV bro
Oh but it is and it is you who acuses me of being blind.Laffable but all good.Believe whateva you wanna believe.Its your right.As for me I will follow what the Bible clearly states.
It Is one level of Heaven it just is Not the highest level.The highest level is where the Father dwells and scripture has already shown that paradise is where Christ went upon his death bcos on the 3rd day He had still not ascended to His Father and He states that Fact clearly when He forbade Mary to touch Him.Simple plain bible truth jon.
@jonathandavid33 You need to seperate Your rebuttals from my statements jon as it can mislead people.It can make it appear as tho the whole paragraph you copy n paste then add yur bit appear to be your statement entirely.So seperate our comments from now on to avoid the appearance of being deceitful :o))
And the whole of christiandom preach that the thief went straight to the Kingdom of god upon his death without the need for baptism and because of this "doctrine"? ... claim that we do not need baptism as Christ proclaimed when He said...Except a man be born of water and of the spirit he Can in No wise enter the kingdom of God.
The thief did not go to the Kingdom of god.To teach he did is to teach a false doctrine.
@jferristube Except a man be born of water (Womb) and of the spirit (Receive the Holy Ghost) he Can in No wise enter the kingdom of God. So what is your point. You can read the rest of what he said right? Unless a man is born of a women and the spirit of God he cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. First comes the flesh and then the Spirit. So knock of with your doctrine of devils already. Repent!
@jonathandavid33 I can see how quick you abandon the Bible and the Word of God.
Pls show me where I have not stated biblical truth.Was it where I say that on the sunday morning Christ had still not ascended to His Father. Was He lying to mary when He forbade her to touch Him jon? Is that where I depart.Or is it when I say that Christ said we must be baptised by water and fire to enter the kingdom jon?
Furthermore as Christ said...no man shall enter without baptism...No man!
That tells you the thief did Not go to the Kingdom any more than any of the lepers or the bleeding woman would go there without obeying the Lords command ie to be baptised first.
Those who die without hearing the gospel of Christ will Not go to hell simply bcos they never knew.The Savior has made it possible for all to hear accept and or reject Him and his Gospel... cont
I dont know if he did but what I do know is He SAID ...Unless a man be Born of the WATER and OF the SPIRIT (thats BOTH) he can in NO WISE ENTER the Kingdom of God. We need both Baptisms.Thats what Christ Himself SAID :0)) at least in MY Bible :0))
And you acuse me of not following Jesus?Coooooool.Not a problem :0)
Jesus said In John 3 "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit". The subject Christ is relating to is physical birth in which Jesus says one must be born of women then born of the Spirit to be born again. John weighed in on the matter “I baptize you with water for repentance. But... (Christ) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:46 clarifies this "The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual".
"Why did John Baptise With water and why did Christ Allow Himself to be baptised by John if it wasnt essential" It was a prophecy that John would identify Christ through the ritual of ceremonial washing. It was after this ritual that Jesus was Baptized by the Holy Ghost and called the Son of God.
@jonathandavid33 It was after this ritual that Jesus was Baptized by the Holy Ghost and called the Son of God.
Yes I agree.
He was baptised first of John by water and then by fire/HG
Why do you make rebuttals to my statements and then delegate your rebuttals as Spam jon? Seems like your trying to hide.Why hide?Ashamed of your rebuttals/answers or somethn :0))
How do you know Christ never baptised anyone with water.You Dont know!
Baptisn by fire will not save anyone anymore than baptism by water. It is but the start to our journey home.Just a start and the Bible clearly shows that. Baptism by water and the spirit saves No one but it is essential. Im sure Judas mustve been baptised by the Savior.Is He saved?Did He love the Savior.Did He keep the commandments?
Luke 3:16 John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
The Baptism of fire is what Mormons will receive who reject the Word of God and give a false witness of Jesus.
@jonathandavid33 John answered them all, "I baptize you with water.
Right there John said he would baptise with water. Being born of water from a woman is not the same.If ya believe that is whats referred to...then what was Johns baptising with water?
There ya go.The very scripture you quote of John.He Actually says Himself that he will BAPTISE you with water.He dosnt say anything bout being (baptised) born of woman now does he!Nowhere in all of the NT does he refer to his baptism of water as referring to being born of a woman.Only blind goats believe that fairytale explanation you try to pass off as what baptism of water means :o))
John 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” “How can someone be born when they are old?” Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 FLESH GIVES BIRTH TO FLESH, but the SPIRIT GIVES BIRTH TO SPIRIT.
Did not John baptise where ther was a large amount of water?Bcos John baptised and practised full immersion, a representation/Symbol of being buried as Christ was and then coming out of the water or grave a "New Born" Thats the baptism of water.
Baptism by FIRE or by the SPIRIT comes AFTER baptism by water.They are Both necessary.
Baptism is total immersion in water. We do it in a font...
Baptism by FIRE or by the SPIRIT comes AFTER baptism by water.They are Both necessary. Both? I count three baptisms. However the Scriptures say: Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism" It does not say, I Lord, One Faith and three Baptisms.
No it makes Joseph Smith a liar. Acts 19 “DID YOU RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT WHEN YOU BELIEVED, They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” So Paul asked, “Then WHAT BAPTISM DID YOU RECEIVE? John’s baptism,” they replied. Paul said, “John’s baptism was a BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him... in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
@jonathandavid33 “Then WHAT BAPTISM DID YOU RECEIVE? John’s baptism,” they replied. Paul said, “John’s baptism was a BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE.
There ya go.His BAPTISM was of Repentance. Repentance is essential to salvation.It is a prerequisite to salvation in the Kingdom of God. It is the 1st of TWO baptisms.First water then secondly...baptism of the spirit. Spirit.
@jonathandavid33 they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Have you ever witnessed a Baptism of water and or baptism of the Spirit as practiced in the LDS Church jon?
I am guessing that you have not.I am also stating with confidence that you know nothing of what we believe regarding baptism of water or of the spirit which would make you unqualified to claim anything we believe is false or unbiblical.
"Christ said only those who DO the WILL of His Father shall enter. Not my words but the words of Christ.Simple" You sure do like to pick and choose from the scriptures but never take them in context and as a whole. Jesus is teaching that those that put their faith in works and boast of the things they have done he will say he never knew you, but those who believed and rested from their works will be Saved. Either you are a fool or you are trying to fool. Which is it?
@jonathandavid33 You sure do like to pick and choose from the scriptures but never take them in context and as a whole
Nope it is you who picks and chooses.I do not boast of any work as No one who is one of His sheep will eva boast of themselves.That would be like believing Light and Dark can exist in the same place and time.We know that is an impossibility.The scripture clearly states that unless we do the will of the Father we will Not enter
@jonathandavid33 Only the goats believe ya dont have to do the will of the Father.That entry into the Kingdom is FREE.It is not.But the ressurection and salvation from death and the grave Are the free gift given us by Christ thru His atonement.Simple
@jonathandavid33 It is death and the grave that we are saved from thru the Grace of God and the Sacrifice on the cross.Ya need to read and learn and understand the bible brother :o)) and stop denying what it clearly states
@jonathandavid33 Christ said only those who DO the WILL of His Father shall enter.
No other way to interpret that scripture.Ya gotta DO the WILL of the Father.That means ...obey Him and His Commandments.To say that one does Not need to obey is the doctrine of devils bro
@jonathandavid33 but those who believed and rested from their works will be Saved. Either you are a fool or you are trying to fool
So you have rested from obeying and doing the Will of the Father have you.Good for you.Thats exactly what satans wants requires and needs of the goats.They think they dont have to do a thing to be saved.As for me I will continue to do what the Lord commands and that takes work and obedience.NOT a belief that I dont have to do a dang thing LOL
@jonathandavid33 Sorry my bad.You are saved.But to enter the Highest Heaven as Paul said there were 3 levels the Kingdom of God being the Highest ya gotta DO certain things bro :o))
that opportunity comes in the spirit world before the resurrection and final judgement.
And thats all biblical.
Somehow I'm guessin the proof you have asked of me is not going to be accepted and thats all fine by me. But its all right ther in yo bible Jonathan.As plain as the nose on your face.Your choice to accept it or to reject it.
People who ask for "proof" are generally neither interested in truth or in "proof"
@jferristube "But its all right ther in yo bible" How telling that you did not say "our bible". You have rejected the Word of God and are an enemy of the Cross of Christ. Repent!
"The scriptures say in the last days people will be "Offended" at a Word" Not familiar with that biblical scripture. Maybe you can cite it for me? To clarify.. I know you carry around the King James Bible, you only abuse it. It is a tool to succor Christians into thinking that Mormons are also Christians. Believing in a christ does not make you a Christian. Believing in the Biblical Christ does. You have to accept not reject Grace as a free Gift. That's the Will & Work of God.
@jonathandavid33 You have to accept not reject Grace as a free Gift.
I do accept grace is a free giftand the free gift is resurrection from death and the grave...for as in adam all die...even so in Christ shall All be made Alive.Its His free gift to all men.
It is a tool to succor Christians into thinking that Mormons are also Christians
Nope thats not why we carry a bible.
And Believing in Christ is Not all that Christ requires of us to enter His Kingdom either.
"I do accept grace is a free giftand the free gift is resurrection from death and the grave..."
If you can only be Saved (Resurrected) by Grace (Free GIft) through Faith in Jesus, then how come everyone is resurrected when they don't believe in Him? You have swallowed the Camel my friend.
@jonathandavid33 You have rejected the Word of God and are an enemy of the Cross of Christ.
Oh so I have rejected the word of god bcos I said "Yo" instead of "Our"
Your judgements are Not Christlike biblical judgements.Thankfully I need not fear what judgements you or any others may make of me for I Fear NO man but my Lord and Saviour.In this case I will say "MY" Savior as I believe in the Christ as taught in the Bible whose judgements are Righteous. Thank you :0))
just like the 1st thief who taunted the Saviour saying..."prove you are the Son of God.Climb down off this cross and save us all.
Didnt work for him and it wont work for those who follow his example now will it!
Thats what LDS haters love to have all the time...Proof.
We rely on Faith in Heavenly Father His Son Jesus Christ and in the power of the Holy Ghost.It is by this power that God teaches us to know the truth of All things.
@jonathandavid33 I have to tell you the truth and that is that you are wrong and do not know the Bible
Seems you do not know the most simple biblical doctrines concerning paradise and the kingdom of God or the absolute necessity for baptism as proclaimed by Christ Himself.
Seems its you who doesnt know your bible Jonathan.Listening to deceiving spirits and doctrines of devils is not good 1Tim 4:1 :o)
Paradise and the Kingdom of God are definitely Not the same place.Proof enuff
Unlike you I am not the one proclaiming that You or anybody else is going to Hell as you and your friends on these forums do to us LDS :0)).Not that it bothers me.It does Not by any means.All good
"I am not the one proclaiming that You or anybody else is going to Hell as you and your friends on these forums do to us LDS"
I have never said you or any Mormon is going to Hell and I do not have any friends that would have said it either. The Bible teaches us not to make such a statement. Only ignorant people would assume they know. Now that accusation exposes one of us as a liar. Who is it Silly one..Knock yourself out. Show me where i said you or Mormons are going to hell.
@jferristube The three kingdoms in Mormonism mean levels of Mormon heaven, but when you read 1 Cor 15:41, Paul's intent is clarified; he was referring to the sun, moon, and stars, not kingdoms. This clearly undermines the LDS claim of multiple levels of heaven.
@moparmonster1965 Paul's intent is clarified; he was referring to the sun, moon, and stars, not kingdoms
He was referring to the resurrection of all souls.We are all resurrected according to our lives and the final judgement.He compares the resurrection of all mankind as differing in glory just as the sun moon and stars differ in degrees of "glory"
We all obey gods will to differing degrees.Theres not Just Heaven or Hell
@jferristube Yes, we are all resurrected, but Mormon resurrection and Christian resurrection are two very different concepts.
This is rooted in the LDS' version of the nature of mankind, which is essentially good, and the Christian version, which is that mankind is essentially evil and selfish. The nature of the savior has to be thus realigned, too. The Mormon jesus offers exaltation to a perfected few whereas the Biblical Jesus offers salvation to the unworthy.
@moparmonster1965 The Mormon jesus offers exaltation to a perfected few whereas the Biblical Jesus offers salvation to the unworthy.
Sorry but you have it wrong.
Salvation from Death/the grave is Christs free gift to ALL MEN.Good and evil.
Exaltation in the highest of Gods Kingdoms we Must obey and keep His commandments.Thru faith (which is dead without "works") nd Obedience we are not only saved but be exalted becomin Heirs to all the Father has just as Christ promised
If your saying he was just referring to the sun moon and stars then what does that comparison have to do with the context of the resurrection as discussed by Paul in the chapter you refer to?
@moparmonster1965 The three kingdoms in Mormonism mean levels of Mormon heaven,
Paul speaks of 3 Heavens so there must be THREE heavens and Paul refers to the resurrection(of all mankind) as a similarity to the sun moon and stars.The resurrection of the dead will differ in glory between us all just as the sun moon nd stars All differ in Glory.Simple
There's also the language barrier that exists between Mormons and Christians, and that's the reason that so many get confused after speaking to the missionaries, coming away with the impression that you believe as we do. That's simply not true.
@moparmonster1965 coming away with the impression that you believe as we do. That's simply not true.
No we do not believe as you do thats the point.LOL
We believe what the apostles of the NT and Christ Himself taught and not the apostate contradicting/confusing teachings of all the differing Christian Sects.Simple
@jferristube The problem with your interpretation is that the Bible, in the LDS mind, is deeply flawed and thus unreliable, so you really can't count on it to support your position, can you? You also don't have ready access to the corrected version, so any use of the Bible to prop up Mormon claims has to be accompanied by an asterisk.
@moparmonster1965 in the LDS mind, is deeply flawed and thus unreliable
No we believe it is mans uninspired interpretation of the Bible that is the Problem.Not the Bible itself by any means.
EG
One sect teaches that no one can enter the kingdom of God without baptism and another can come along and say No thats Not right saying you can enter without baptism and they recite the thief on the cross as the example.Whose right?Which Gospel is the right.true one pls?
Yes, we've seen several examples of people being granted salvation without benefit of baptism. When Joseph Smith wrote the BOM and gave his fictional revelations in D&C, he did so from the misunderstanding about the nature of baptism.
Water baptism is nothing more than the public display of our surrender to God's will and the physical embodiment of our commitment to His. That's it. It's not required, nor is it a sacrament.
@jferristube Take a look at the 10 lepers, the weeping woman, and the thief. All achieved salvation without benefit of baptism. True, they're the exception and not the rule, but once again, you're accepting the Bible when it suits you because your church canonized the flawed version of the Bible, didn't it?
The Mormon view, of course, is like that of Catholicism, but can't Jesus make an exception to His own rule? I bet He can.
And Mormon interpretation is a funny thing, since you use the version of the Bible that we already know is incorrect, so you have no idea what is and is not right, do you?
@moparmonster1965 The Mormon view, of course, is like that of Catholicism, but can't Jesus make an exception to His own rule?
Why would He?He doesnt have to for a start and as the scriptures say.Though the Heavens and the Earth pass away his word will not pass away. The fact remains that what He said was "No man shall enter" He did not add a ps and say... but Ill let some of you in without it or I might just change my mind some time down the road.
Seems you do exactly what you falsely acuse me of doing.Pick and choose scripture to suit your story.Even try to change what Christ said.And acuse Joseph of the very same thing.Are you also a prophet??? :0) Tisktisk now.
I notice ya still havent commented on the Proof you requested of me with regards to Paradise and the Kingdom of God not being the same place.Youve just given me excuses. Lame ones LOL
@moparmonster1965 so you have no idea what is and is not right, do you?
Yes we do as we have the KJV the BoM and living prophets just as the ancient saints.Now that makes us the luckiest people on the face of the planet.Thank you very much
ps I do know that paradise and gods kingdom are NOT the same place.You say they are ARE the same place. Ive given you proof from the commonly known and accepted story surrounding the resurrection.That on the 3rd day after his death...cont
That on the 3rd day after His death Christ forbade Mary to touch Him BECAUSE He had Not yet Ascended to His Father in Heaven.So obviously He did Not go there on the Friday with the thief now did He! Plain simple truth that your bible does not seem to enlighten you with.Seems you're the one reading the incorrect bible version bro.LOL.Again I am reminded of the scripture warning.Those who dig the pit for others shall into it themselves Fall.Careful bro
@jferristube Off the top of my head, Jesus said to the thief that he would be in Paradise with Him that day, didn't he? I realize that in Momronism, Paradise is some other place, but there's no Biblical standard for that assumption, only the church's word, a word that has been proven to be a lie in the past.
@moparmonster1965 Paradise is some other place, but there's no Biblical standard for that assumption
On the sunday of Christs Resurrection He had still not ascended to his Father in heaven.He stated that fact himself when he forbade Mary saying ...touch me Not.
Thats your biblical standard and it aint (is that correct english mopa?) "Assumption" or the churchs "word" It is written.Christ 3 days aftr death had not yet ascended to His Fathers kingdom.From His own mouth.Got it???
@moparmonster1965 and the thief. All achieved salvation without benefit of baptism
The thief was forgiven his sins by the lord and yes, was saved from suffering for his sins.He was promised paradise Not the Kingdom of Heaven on that day.The thief did Not get to go to the Kingdom of God.He was promised Paradise only.Paradise and the Kingdom of God are Not the same place.No one as Christ said will enter Gods Kingdom without Baptism just as Christ said.Simple
In light of that, please explain to me how the Mormon god allowed the corrected version to slip through his fingers and into the hands of the apostate RLDS.
@moparmonster1965 In light of that, please explain to me how the Mormon god allowed the corrected version to slip through his fingers and into the hands of the apostate RLDS.
If Joseph Smith had to make 'thousands of corrections to the text and restore information that had been lost (Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, p 208, 2007 edition)," and that "ignorant translators, craeless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors (as above, p 207)," you clearly don't have the correct edition, do you?
@moparmonster1965 you clearly don't have the correct edition, do you?
We have enuff for now and one day the Lord will reveal all that was lost from the Biblical cannon.Without a doubt But only when we are ready to receive it.The world is not yet ready for that great day but it will come and anyone with half a brain would know that the Bible cannot possibly contain All that god wants us to know.That is a tact of satan.Keep everyone in the dark and Ignorant.Your choice Mopa
@moparmonster1965 you clearly don't have the correct edition, do you
Thousands of corrections???Nope.Not at all!
We have what we need given us from God thru the prophet Joseph Smith.Thank you very much :0)
Anyway ya think that men who did not claim to be prophets or even inspired by god could Not make mistakes?Look at the catholic church.They were the only "christians"? for almost 2000 yrs.The catholic hierachy ruled like devils for centuries.No corruption???Of course not!LOL
@jferristube Again, I realize that Mormonism adds a number of celestial places that aren't supported Biblically or even in the BOM, so I see where you're coming from, wrong though you are.
@moparmonster1965 Again, I realize that Mormonism adds a number of celestial places that aren't supported Biblically
Hello.Anyone Home in there?
Again Paul said...there are Bodies Celestial etcetc and glories of the stars that all differ one from another in glory. So very biblical and very true.
@jferristube I can also see how your reading of the Bible, peering through the distorted lens of Mormonism would give you that impression. But again, without the corrected version of the Bible, you don't know what is and isn't correct.
The answers and proof I gave for paradise Not being the Kingdom of God is the same in every bible including the KJV.Surprised???IE On the 3rd day Christ forbade Mary to Touch Him Not as he had not yet ascended to His Fathers kingdom.Simple truth. That was on the Sunday.On the 3rd day after His crucifixion so Christ did Not go to the Kingdom of Heaven on the Friday and Paradise is not Gods kingdom
@moparmonster1965 Take a look at the 10 lepers, the weeping woman, and the thief. All achieved salvation without benefit of baptism. True, they're the exception and not the rule
Sorry but Christ makes it clear.There are NO exceptions Mopa.None!
Like I said.They were cured of infirmities and thats all.Whether they truely accepted Christ and defended Him in the end or denied Him is not stated.
@jferristube This is where Mormons get hung: which denomination is right? Jesus has no denomination, but if you wanted to be like Him, it stands to reason that you'd convert to Judaism instead of Mormonism.
@moparmonster1965 This is where Mormons get hung: which denomination is right? Jesus has no denomination
Yes that is right.He does not But Christianity does.Which Christian denomination is teaching the correct/complete and true Gospel as Christ taught?Which denomination Mopa?
@jferristube I already told you: there is no specific denomination. I grew up strict Roman Catholic and they have their own explanations as to why they are correct and everyone else is wrong, something I struggled with for years. The answer was a lot simpler than I ever imagined.
You, however, cannot accept this because, assuming that the BOM is correct, believe that he Bible is in error. Since a Bible-based church is the true Christian 'denomination,' you'll never get where you want to go.
@jferristube And yet we know that the Mormon god says otherwise, in both the BOM and D&C 73:3-4, don't we? Why, if the KJV is the most corredt translation, did he tell Joseph Smith to retranslate it?
Yes, that's right, there are thousands, and I'm telling you that they're all wrong in their claims. The truth is in the word of God, not a building, not a denomination, not a particular faith.
@moparmonster1965 Why, if the KJV is the most corredt translation, did he tell Joseph Smith to retranslate it?
I wouldve thought the answer to a bright spark like yoself would not need to have that explained to you.But there again.Like I said.The truth when presented clearly and simply for you and you still deny the truth in the end.All good
Left in 2007 and have not looked back. So good to be FREE!!!!!
blessedmamaof10 2 weeks ago
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I want you all to know that I know the LDS church is false. I know the BOM is false. I know Joe Smith was a false prophet of God and I know Thomas S. Monson is a living false prophet.
JIMMYBOBSMITH 4 months ago
I want you all to know that I know the LDS church is false. I know the BOM is false. I know Joe Smith was a false prophet of God and I know Thomas S. Monson is a living false prophet.
JIMMYBOBSMITH 4 months ago
Very good and True, so very sad
jesusisjehovah 4 months ago
That's a great song.
cuttlefisch 4 months ago
I want you all to know that I know The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. I know The Book of Mormon is true. I know Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God and I know Thomas S. Monson is the living Prophet.
UtahMormon90 6 months ago
@UtahMormon90 Carbon copy testimonies do not affect anyone..
DerZanDa 6 months ago 2
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@DerZanDa Carbon copy testimonies do not affect anyone.
Are you saying Christianity does not bear the same testimonies???That Jesus is the Christ etc.Do you Not All Claim the Very same Testimonies of Jesus Christ? Hmmmmmmmm.Interesting
jferristube 2 months ago
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@UtahMormon90 Mormon forefathers bore their testimonies for a different set of doctrines that are now said to be false by the current LDS church.Some of these doctrines were: Adam as God, polygamy is essential to salvation, blacks will be denied the priesthood until the second comming of Christ, and blood atonment. If your forefathers testimonies can't be trusted, what makes you so sure yours can be trusted? What makes you better then them?
endofus 5 months ago
Look at their age, Where in all the world would you get such lovely and holsum men to be a guide to the world and the members of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of latterday Saints?- Only in the presence and countenance of our Saviour. james 1 v5 Find out for yourselves
MongoSoose 6 months ago
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MongoSoose 6 months ago
II Corinthians 11:3-4 3:But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupt from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4: For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. God's Word is so awsome, God knew the devil would come up with his false gospel, his "another" gospel.
beatleman69 6 months ago
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MongoSoose 6 months ago
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MongoSoose 6 months ago
@beatleman69 With respect. You may know of the saviour you may hear off the saviour and you may speak off the Saviour. However, Do You Know Him?
JESUS CHRIST is the cornerstone of our religion, not! Joseph Smith as people High Light him to be. I belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saints and I Know my Saviour that same Jesus the Christ which walked the Shores of Galilee. And I testify of Joseph Smith as a Modern Day Prophet Just as Noah was a Modern Day Prophet in his Day
MongoSoose 6 months ago
@MongoSoose You're right, religion, thats all you have. The Bible speaks without error. If God brought another gospel, then thats saying God just came up with something else, cause his prior word failed, thats what LDS teaches. Obviously you don't understand II Corinthians 11:3-4. Paul warns us about another gospel that is not of God but of man. The Bible is God's Word period. Is Jesus God? The Bible says He is the Word of God that came in the flesh. Read the Bible, you'll find the truth there.
beatleman69 6 months ago
@beatleman69 Well this year we are learning from the New Testiment 28th lesson from Christmas after finishing Old Testiment and currently studing from Acts 3–4. Peter and John heal a lame man and testify that the man was healed by the power of Jesus Christ. The Apostles pray for and receive great power through the Holy Ghost. The Bible is the word of God and the Book of Mormon is a companion to the Bible; which bares testimony of Jesus the Christ of Judea.
MongoSoose 6 months ago
@MongoSoose The book of mormon is NOT some additional book, the Bible is the ONLY Word of God, do not be deceived. Galations 1:8-9 says "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed." 9: "As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach another gospel unto you than that we have received, let him be accursed". Read the Bible, study it, you'll find the REAL Jesus, I promise you! I want to help you.
beatleman69 6 months ago
@beatleman69 beatleman69, with respect.This world cannot hold the amount of scripture the Lord has to reveal. The Bible is the word of God However, Man decided which books went into it and remember Mathew Mark Luke and John are written after the Book of Revalations and you do not need to take my word on that one. Beatleman69 I am not looking to be right on anything I share. Paul knew of his Death coming and knew a false gospel was going to be taught soon after the apostles where all dead.
MongoSoose 6 months ago
@MongoSoose John was the only apostle that died a natural death, all the others were martered therefore the 4 gospels were not written after the book of Revelation, sorry. The Bible, the Word of God was inspired by the Holy Ghost, not man's understanding. Yeh you're right, books cannot contain everything Jesus did, but it didn't wind up in the book of mormon and Jesus never came to pre-colonial america either. They only tell you that to try to legitimise the LDS church, don't believe it! Please!
beatleman69 6 months ago
@beatleman69 Well we certainly do not deny the Bible as the word of God I teach of it, my favourite Scripture of all scripture written is from St John 13 v 34. And the books that Man did not put in where are they? The Apocrypha maybe But then the Protestant Christian Church decided that they where not inspired So they did not include them into the Bible. How many other books where not included? Guess the world has the Dead Sea Scrolls or do we? What is your opinion BeatleMan69?
MongoSoose 6 months ago
@MongoSoose I'm not real sure on how many books, I know of two from the Old Testiment, the book of Enoch and Macabeese (if I spelled that right). Some books written in ancient times were more or less historical accounts not God's Word per say. When God spoke the word to the OT prophets God to them to write it down so when they gave God's message to the people of that day there was no mistake. Do you believe Jesus is God and not a god?
beatleman69 6 months ago
@beatleman69 BeatleMan69 I live ten miles south of Belfast and it is 3;28 in the morning so I will answer your very Interesting question to-morrow or sunday . bye for now
MongoSoose 6 months ago
@MongoSoose *This world cannot hold the amount of scripture the Lord has to reveal.* That may be true, but any new scripture certainly wouldn't inherit man-made problems from the KJV as the BoM obviously does. Placing the BoM above the Bible puts you in a strange position of critiquing the Bible from the viewpoint of a sceptic.
eeikman 6 months ago
"The important consideration is not how long we can live but how well we can learn the lesson of life, and discharge our duties and obligations to God and to one another." Joseph Smith Jr.
scottwins2 6 months ago
"I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved."
Joseph Smith Jr.
scottwins2 6 months ago
Each heartfelt prayer, each Church meeting attended, each worthy friend, each righteous decision, each act of service perfomed all precede that goal of eternal life.
Thomas S. Monson
scottwins2 6 months ago
Ephesians 4:11 King James Version ) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry....
scottwins2 6 months ago
The nearer a person approaches the Lord, a greater power will be manifested by the adversary to prevent the accomplishment of His purposes." Joseph Smith Jr.
scottwins2 6 months ago
"Let us never forget to pray. God lives. He is near. He is real. He is not only aware of us but cares for us. He is our Father. He is accessible to all who will seek Him."
— Gordon B. Hinckley
scottwins2 6 months ago
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Ha ha. Fuck the anti-mormons
MrLeagueOJustice 7 months ago
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Zero archeological evidence + zero genetic evidence + numerous different accounts of the first vision + numerous false prophecies = equals a religion built on falsehoods. Joseph was a treasure digger who was renowned for his story telling. Deuteronomy is clear that a true prophet of God must be right 100% of the time. Smith fails this test. For example, no 6 ft tall Quakers on the moon. No temple in Independence, MO. No 56 yrs until Christ returned
endofus 8 months ago
Matthew 23 ; 16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
999LDS 8 months ago
@999LDS finish the passage if you are going to quote scripture,
Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
It is a passage against trying to weasle out of oaths that are made by using an incomplete passage you are sugesting something not true.
Jonathan2342 7 months ago
@Jonathan2342 Galatians 1 : 6-8 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!...... The Bom IS a different gospel.
999LDS 7 months ago
@Jonathan2342 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Matthew 7:13-14.
The BOM is a wide gate. And has 3 broad roads.
999LDS 7 months ago
@999LDS I couldn't agree more, the BOM is the largest crock of manuer that was produced in the 19th century. Which was not my point. your prior post suggested, IMO, that it was OK for believers to make false oaths because only 1/2 of the passage was quoted. And, since we are quoting verses,
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Jonathan2342 7 months ago
@Jonathan2342 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
So if faith doesnt need works then how does one show faith in Him?Simply by believing and nothn else?
If that be true.That it is gods free gift then it must be gods will to give it to anyone he wishes.Arbitrarily without one having to even believe in or accept Jesus as Savior?As in the case of the thief on the cross?
jferristube 2 months ago
@jferristube The last words of the their on the cross was "Remember me when you come into your Kingdom" A clear admission that Jesus is who he say he is.
For a gift, you need two parties, somebody to offer the gift and somebody to accept it. The gift of salvation is offered to everybody, unfortunately, not everybody accepts it because to accept it means to accept Christ as Lord. Also, a gift has to have no strings attached. otherwise, it is just a commercial transaction. think relationship
Jonathan2342 2 months ago
@Jonathan2342 The gift of salvation is offered to everybody
What is salvation?
jferristube 2 months ago
@jferristube I don't know if you think I am some LDS or something but I'm not.
Salvation means exactly what 2000 years of Christian history says it is. Forgiveness from Sin and to be entered into Heaven, or eternity with Jesus.
Jonathan2342 2 months ago
@Jonathan2342 Remember me when you come into your Kingdom" A clear admission that Jesus is who he say he is.
So the thief went straight to the Kingdom of god?
jferristube 2 months ago
@jferristube Luke 23:43 - Jesus says to the Theif " Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise"
So I guess the answer is yes, by Jesus's own words.
Jonathan2342 2 months ago
@Jonathan2342 today shalt thou be with me in paradise"
But paradise is not the Kingdom of Heaven
He told the thief...This day thou shalt be with me in paradise.Jesus did go to paradise that day but Not to His fathers Kingdom/the Kingdom of god.The bible clearly shows it.The whole of Christiandom believes the thief got into heaven that day.And most dismiss the need for baptism bcos of this fallacy.Paradise and the Kingdom of God are Not the same place
jferristube 2 months ago
@jferristube You are referring to Abraham's bosom, which Jesus is believed to have descended to to pick up those who died before the crucifiction. When Jeus died, it is believed he descended to Abraham's bosom and took those souls to heaven. That being said, even if I grant paradise is Abraham's bosom, he would have been taken to heaven immediately afterwards.
Jonathan2342 2 months ago
@Jonathan2342 You are referring to Abraham's bosom
Sorry Im not. Im referring to the term Paradise.As you also do.
Jesus 3 days after His death on the morning of His resurrection had still not gone to His Fathers Kingdom.He had gone to Paradise/Abrahams bosom perhaps as you infer but certainly the thief did not go to the Kingdom of God on that day.Most of Christianity say the thief went strait to Heaven.He did not.No more than Christ did.Where did Christ go that day nd the next 3? To Paradise.
jferristube 2 months ago
@Jonathan2342 he would have been taken to heaven immediately afterwards.
Certainly the thief Was taken to paradise as opposed to going to suffer in hell as where no doubt the other dud ended up.He wanted proof of the Saviors divinity in his request and challenge to the Christ to save the 3 of them by climbing down off the cross.Which I know Christ had the power to do.We both know why He did Not.
All good
jferristube 2 months ago
@Jonathan2342 That being said, even if I grant paradise is Abraham's bosom, he would have been taken to heaven immediately afterwards.
But he wasnt taken to heaven/kingdom of god ...immediately afterwards.He went to Paradise which is not the Kingdom of god.
jferristube 1 month ago
@jferristube
1of 2: The thief on the Cross made a simple appeal. Remember me when you come in your kingdom. It is translated as come into, but from the original greek we know it is actually come in your kingdom. The difference does not see, much but it is very, very significant. To come into his kingdom was 40 days after the resurrection. To come in his kingdom has not happened yet. See the significance? Continued...
jonathandavid33 1 month ago
@jferristube
2 of 2
What Christ answered is best expressed as you don't have to wait...I will tell you right now. That is the form and meaning of Verily, verily...(what I am about to say is important) You will be with me in Paradise. To see it any other way is to call Christ a liar as He knew that the thief would not be with him in Paradise for a long long time. There are many scriptures that back this up, relating to asking of God and receiving. Would you like them?
jonathandavid33 1 month ago
@jonathandavid33 You will be with me in Paradise.
Again I dont deny the thief would be in paradise.Christ promised him that.Paradise! Im saying Paradise is Not the Kingdom of God.The river spoken of flows thru Paradise its source most definitely comes from the throne of god as your quoted verses say.Not denying any of that.The tree of life is described as being in the midst of paradise but again Im saying the Kingdom of god is not Paradise.They are 2 seperate places.
Cont...
jferristube 1 month ago
@jonathandavid33 To see it any other way is to call Christ a liar
So Im not being misunderstood.We both agree the 2nd thief would be In Paradise immediately on that day just as Christ promised. No question about it.
Paul spoke of there being 3 Heavens.
Whats that mean? Three Heavens??? Isnt heaven where God is supposed to dwell?(ie His Kingdom???
Which of the 3 Heavens spoken of by Paul is the heaven where God dwells?Which of those 3 Heavens
jferristube 1 month ago
@jferristube
No question about it? Christ made no such promise. A comma did. The original Greek had no punctuation. The belief that Paradise was in hell comes from Greek mythology and became a part of Jewish folk lore after the second century AD./ 2 Corinthians 12:4 Paradise according to Paul "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter" How can Paradise be up and down?
jonathandavid33 1 month ago
@jonathandavid33 No question about it? Christ made no such promise.
Christ told the thief... he would be in paradise "today"with Him...
No other way to read that.
Again Ive never said Paradise was a part of hell
Second time Ive had to clarify this fact.All good...
jferristube 1 month ago
@jferristube
You are propping up a Mormon lie that does not reconcile with the biblical scriptures. "Second time Ive had to clarify this fact." And for the second time I have to tell you the truth and that is that you are wrong and do not know the Bible. Check the original greek and tell me how you place the comma before and not after "today" . I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise. Paradise is the Kingdom of God Silly Mormon. Prove me wrong through the Bible.
jonathandavid33 3 weeks ago
@jonathandavid33 Paradise is the Kingdom of God Silly Mormon. Prove me wrong through the Bible.
Its not about me proving you wrong bro. Its whether you really want to know the truth cos I can show you using the Bible that Paradise is NOT the Kingdom of God.Christ did Not go to the Kingdom of God after His death on that very same day.He went to Paradise.Paradise is Not the Kingdom of God.
Christ said no man can enter there without Baptism by water nd fire.Simple
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube
"Baptism by water nd fire" You don't even know what baptism by fire is. You will find out though. You are headed for it Silly ignorant one.
jonathandavid33 2 weeks ago
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@jonathandavid33 You don't even know what baptism by fire
Baptism by fire is the receiving of the Holy ghost.You obviously dont know what it is ...
jferristube 4 days ago
@jonathandavid33 Paradise is the Kingdom of God Silly Mormon.
Christ nd the 2nd thief went UP to Paradise.No denying that.They just did Not go right up to the Kingdom of God where God dwells.
As Christ said.Except a man be born of the water and of the spirit He Can In NO WISE enter the Kingdom of God. Simple
jferristube 3 weeks ago
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@jonathandavid33 Paradise is the Kingdom of God Silly Mormon. Prove me wrong through the Bible.
Okay you want proof.
On the Sunday when the Lord resurrected from the dead and received His now immortal glorified perfected (never to die again) body.Who was the very first mortal to see him and be the first witness of His resurrection?When that person reached forward to touch the Saviour what did the Savior say to that person?
He said..."touch me Not for I have Not yet ...cont
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jonathandavid33 Cont...
"Not yet ascended to my Father who is in Heaven" Where does the Father dwell Jonathan?In His Kingdom.The kingdom of god.Right?
So on the 3rd day Christ by his own mouth testifies that he had not yet entered the kingdom of His Father.Heres your absolute proof that the Kingdom of God and paradise are definitely Not the same place.Simple.While his mortal body lay in the tomb.Christ as a spirit went to Paradise as he claimed and took the thief with him
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube
"Christ by his own mouth testifies that he had not yet entered the kingdom of His Father.Heres your absolute proof that the Kingdom of God and paradise are definitely Not the same place".
Lol... You are a silly one... Christ did not enter into Paradise as He said. That is where God Dwells. Explain what Paul said about being caught up in the third Heaven. He explains it to be Paradise. Up means up does it not? How could Christ have been three days in the ground which is up?
jonathandavid33 2 weeks ago
@jonathandavid33 Explain what Paul said about being caught up in the third Heaven. He explains it to be Paradise.
And paradise is not the Kingdom of God
On the morning of His resurrection He told mary to not touch Him for He ...Had Not Yet Ascended to His Father in Heaven.He had gone up but only to the 3rd Heaven.Not to where His Father was.Only the goats believe anything else.Paradise is Not the Kingdom of God.
jferristube 4 days ago
@jferristube
"On the morning of His resurrection He told mary to not touch Him for He ...Had Not Yet Ascended to His Father in Heaven.He had gone up but only to the 3rd Heaven.Not to where His Father was.Only the goats believe anything else.Paradise is Not the Kingdom of God" What you say is not supported by the BIble. I already proved that Paradise is Heaven. I can't help it if God has made you blind.
jonathandavid33 3 days ago
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@jonathandavid33 I already proved that Paradise is Heaven. I can't help it if God has made you blind.
Made me blind???LOL
Only a fool wud deny that Jesus told Mary Not to touch Him.The account clearly states Christ said...Touch me Not for I have NOT YET ASCENDED to my Father in Heaven. He went up to the third Heaven which we both agree is what Paul said.There are 3 levels of Heaven.Christ went to the 3rd level upon his death ie Paradise. .. Cont
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 and had still not by the Sunday morning gone to his Fathers Kingdom.He declared that fact to Mary on that Sunday morning.Read it ...Its right ther in my bible anyway.Maybe not yours but it definitely is in mine...the KJV bro
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 What you say is not supported by the BIble.
Oh but it is and it is you who acuses me of being blind.Laffable but all good.Believe whateva you wanna believe.Its your right.As for me I will follow what the Bible clearly states.
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 I already proved that Paradise is Heaven.
sorry but ya havent proved paradise is Heaven.
It Is one level of Heaven it just is Not the highest level.The highest level is where the Father dwells and scripture has already shown that paradise is where Christ went upon his death bcos on the 3rd day He had still not ascended to His Father and He states that Fact clearly when He forbade Mary to touch Him.Simple plain bible truth jon.
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 You need to seperate Your rebuttals from my statements jon as it can mislead people.It can make it appear as tho the whole paragraph you copy n paste then add yur bit appear to be your statement entirely.So seperate our comments from now on to avoid the appearance of being deceitful :o))
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 Cont
And the whole of christiandom preach that the thief went straight to the Kingdom of god upon his death without the need for baptism and because of this "doctrine"? ... claim that we do not need baptism as Christ proclaimed when He said...Except a man be born of water and of the spirit he Can in No wise enter the kingdom of God.
The thief did not go to the Kingdom of god.To teach he did is to teach a false doctrine.
1 Timothy 4:1...doctrines of devils
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube Except a man be born of water (Womb) and of the spirit (Receive the Holy Ghost) he Can in No wise enter the kingdom of God. So what is your point. You can read the rest of what he said right? Unless a man is born of a women and the spirit of God he cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. First comes the flesh and then the Spirit. So knock of with your doctrine of devils already. Repent!
jonathandavid33 2 weeks ago
@jonathandavid33 So knock of with your doctrine of devils already. Repent!
Your the one teachn the wrong Gospel ...
jferristube 4 days ago
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@jferristube
"Your the one teachn the wrong Gospel ..." I can see how quick you abandon the Bible and the Word of God.
jonathandavid33 3 days ago
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@jonathandavid33 I can see how quick you abandon the Bible and the Word of God.
Pls show me where I have not stated biblical truth.Was it where I say that on the sunday morning Christ had still not ascended to His Father. Was He lying to mary when He forbade her to touch Him jon? Is that where I depart.Or is it when I say that Christ said we must be baptised by water and fire to enter the kingdom jon?
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 Cont...
Furthermore as Christ said...no man shall enter without baptism...No man!
That tells you the thief did Not go to the Kingdom any more than any of the lepers or the bleeding woman would go there without obeying the Lords command ie to be baptised first.
Those who die without hearing the gospel of Christ will Not go to hell simply bcos they never knew.The Savior has made it possible for all to hear accept and or reject Him and his Gospel... cont
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube
Who did Christ ever Baptize with Water? As John said...He would Baptize with the Holy Ghost. John's water baptism saved no one.
jonathandavid33 2 weeks ago
@jonathandavid33 Who did Christ ever Baptize with Water?
I dont know if he did but what I do know is He SAID ...Unless a man be Born of the WATER and OF the SPIRIT (thats BOTH) he can in NO WISE ENTER the Kingdom of God. We need both Baptisms.Thats what Christ Himself SAID :0)) at least in MY Bible :0))
And you acuse me of not following Jesus?Coooooool.Not a problem :0)
jferristube 2 weeks ago
@jferristube
Jesus said In John 3 "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit". The subject Christ is relating to is physical birth in which Jesus says one must be born of women then born of the Spirit to be born again. John weighed in on the matter “I baptize you with water for repentance. But... (Christ) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:46 clarifies this "The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual".
jonathandavid33 4 days ago
@jonathandavid33 John's water baptism saved no one.
That is correct. It is but part of what we must do to enter His Kingdom.Just One of the many commands we Must obey to enter the Kingdom of God.
Why did John Baptise With water and why did Christ Allow Himself to be baptised by John if it wasnt essential.
Christ allowed Himself to be baptised for a reason.You obviously do not know the reason why.
jferristube 4 days ago
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@jferristube
"Why did John Baptise With water and why did Christ Allow Himself to be baptised by John if it wasnt essential" It was a prophecy that John would identify Christ through the ritual of ceremonial washing. It was after this ritual that Jesus was Baptized by the Holy Ghost and called the Son of God.
jonathandavid33 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 It was after this ritual that Jesus was Baptized by the Holy Ghost and called the Son of God.
Yes I agree.
He was baptised first of John by water and then by fire/HG
Why do you make rebuttals to my statements and then delegate your rebuttals as Spam jon? Seems like your trying to hide.Why hide?Ashamed of your rebuttals/answers or somethn :0))
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 Who did Christ ever Baptize with Water?
How do you know Christ never baptised anyone with water.You Dont know!
Baptisn by fire will not save anyone anymore than baptism by water. It is but the start to our journey home.Just a start and the Bible clearly shows that. Baptism by water and the spirit saves No one but it is essential. Im sure Judas mustve been baptised by the Savior.Is He saved?Did He love the Savior.Did He keep the commandments?
jferristube 4 days ago
@jferristube
Luke 3:16 John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
The Baptism of fire is what Mormons will receive who reject the Word of God and give a false witness of Jesus.
jonathandavid33 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 John answered them all, "I baptize you with water.
Right there John said he would baptise with water. Being born of water from a woman is not the same.If ya believe that is whats referred to...then what was Johns baptising with water?
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 Luke 3:16 John answered them all, "I baptize you with water.
There ya go.The very scripture you quote of John.He Actually says Himself that he will BAPTISE you with water.He dosnt say anything bout being (baptised) born of woman now does he!Nowhere in all of the NT does he refer to his baptism of water as referring to being born of a woman.Only blind goats believe that fairytale explanation you try to pass off as what baptism of water means :o))
jferristube 3 days ago
@jferristube
John 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” “How can someone be born when they are old?” Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 FLESH GIVES BIRTH TO FLESH, but the SPIRIT GIVES BIRTH TO SPIRIT.
John 3 "He will baptize you with the Spirit"
Baptism is by the Spirit not a dunk in a font!
jonathandavid33 1 day ago
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jferristube 1 day ago
@jonathandavid33 Baptism is by the Spirit not a dunk in a font!
Did not John baptise where ther was a large amount of water?Bcos John baptised and practised full immersion, a representation/Symbol of being buried as Christ was and then coming out of the water or grave a "New Born" Thats the baptism of water.
Baptism by FIRE or by the SPIRIT comes AFTER baptism by water.They are Both necessary.
Baptism is total immersion in water. We do it in a font...
jferristube 1 sec ago
jferristube 1 day ago
@jferristube
Baptism by FIRE or by the SPIRIT comes AFTER baptism by water.They are Both necessary. Both? I count three baptisms. However the Scriptures say: Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism" It does not say, I Lord, One Faith and three Baptisms.
jonathandavid33 1 day ago
@jonathandavid33 It does not say, I Lord, One Faith and three Baptisms.
ya cant count bro
jferristube 22 hours ago
@jonathandavid33 Baptism by FIRE or by the SPIRIT comes AFTER baptism by water
Christ said one must be baptised of the water and of the spirit...so yur argumnt aint with me now is it!!!
jferristube 22 hours ago
@jonathandavid33
as apposed to doin it in a river a lake or the ocean.I have never said baptism of the spirit is by a dunk in a font you silly boy.LOL
jferristube 1 day ago
@jonathandavid33 Cont
according to your fairytail if it were true(and it is Not) that would make John a liar
jferristube 3 days ago
@jferristube
"John a liar"
No it makes Joseph Smith a liar. Acts 19 “DID YOU RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT WHEN YOU BELIEVED, They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” So Paul asked, “Then WHAT BAPTISM DID YOU RECEIVE? John’s baptism,” they replied. Paul said, “John’s baptism was a BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him... in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
DO YO UNDERSTAND?
jonathandavid33 1 day ago
@jonathandavid33 No it makes Joseph Smith a liar
And how does it do that jon?
jferristube 1 day ago
@jonathandavid33 “Then WHAT BAPTISM DID YOU RECEIVE? John’s baptism,” they replied. Paul said, “John’s baptism was a BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE.
There ya go.His BAPTISM was of Repentance. Repentance is essential to salvation.It is a prerequisite to salvation in the Kingdom of God. It is the 1st of TWO baptisms.First water then secondly...baptism of the spirit. Spirit.
Both are essential as Christ proclaimed.
jferristube 1 day ago
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@jonathandavid33 they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Have you ever witnessed a Baptism of water and or baptism of the Spirit as practiced in the LDS Church jon?
I am guessing that you have not.I am also stating with confidence that you know nothing of what we believe regarding baptism of water or of the spirit which would make you unqualified to claim anything we believe is false or unbiblical.
jferristube 1 day ago
@jonathandavid33 Baptism by water will not save you.I agree but neither will baptism by fire.
Christ said only those who DO the WILL of His Father shall enter. Not my words but the words of Christ.Simple
jferristube 4 days ago
@jferristube
"Christ said only those who DO the WILL of His Father shall enter. Not my words but the words of Christ.Simple" You sure do like to pick and choose from the scriptures but never take them in context and as a whole. Jesus is teaching that those that put their faith in works and boast of the things they have done he will say he never knew you, but those who believed and rested from their works will be Saved. Either you are a fool or you are trying to fool. Which is it?
jonathandavid33 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 You sure do like to pick and choose from the scriptures but never take them in context and as a whole
Nope it is you who picks and chooses.I do not boast of any work as No one who is one of His sheep will eva boast of themselves.That would be like believing Light and Dark can exist in the same place and time.We know that is an impossibility.The scripture clearly states that unless we do the will of the Father we will Not enter
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 Only the goats believe ya dont have to do the will of the Father.That entry into the Kingdom is FREE.It is not.But the ressurection and salvation from death and the grave Are the free gift given us by Christ thru His atonement.Simple
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 It is death and the grave that we are saved from thru the Grace of God and the Sacrifice on the cross.Ya need to read and learn and understand the bible brother :o)) and stop denying what it clearly states
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 Christ said only those who DO the WILL of His Father shall enter.
No other way to interpret that scripture.Ya gotta DO the WILL of the Father.That means ...obey Him and His Commandments.To say that one does Not need to obey is the doctrine of devils bro
jferristube 3 days ago
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@jonathandavid33 but those who believed and rested from their works will be Saved. Either you are a fool or you are trying to fool
So you have rested from obeying and doing the Will of the Father have you.Good for you.Thats exactly what satans wants requires and needs of the goats.They think they dont have to do a thing to be saved.As for me I will continue to do what the Lord commands and that takes work and obedience.NOT a belief that I dont have to do a dang thing LOL
jferristube 3 days ago
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jferristube 3 days ago
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@jonathandavid33 Sorry my bad.You are saved.But to enter the Highest Heaven as Paul said there were 3 levels the Kingdom of God being the Highest ya gotta DO certain things bro :o))
jferristube 3 days ago
@jonathandavid33 Cont...
that opportunity comes in the spirit world before the resurrection and final judgement.
And thats all biblical.
Somehow I'm guessin the proof you have asked of me is not going to be accepted and thats all fine by me. But its all right ther in yo bible Jonathan.As plain as the nose on your face.Your choice to accept it or to reject it.
People who ask for "proof" are generally neither interested in truth or in "proof"
All good ... cont
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube "But its all right ther in yo bible" How telling that you did not say "our bible". You have rejected the Word of God and are an enemy of the Cross of Christ. Repent!
jonathandavid33 2 weeks ago
@jonathandavid33 "But its all right ther in yo bible" How telling that you did not say "our bible"
The scriptures say in the last days people will be "Offended" at a Word :0))
Anyway I thought ya believe we do not have the Same bible.You dudes say that of us all the time. Not that I care and I use the KJV by the way.
Anyway. What would you have said in reply had I said "MY BIBLE"
Seems ya just wanna argue and knit pick every little thing I say.
All good.Knock yoself out bro.
jferristube 2 weeks ago
@jferristube
"The scriptures say in the last days people will be "Offended" at a Word" Not familiar with that biblical scripture. Maybe you can cite it for me? To clarify.. I know you carry around the King James Bible, you only abuse it. It is a tool to succor Christians into thinking that Mormons are also Christians. Believing in a christ does not make you a Christian. Believing in the Biblical Christ does. You have to accept not reject Grace as a free Gift. That's the Will & Work of God.
jonathandavid33 4 days ago
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jferristube 4 days ago
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@jonathandavid33 You have to accept not reject Grace as a free Gift.
I do accept grace is a free giftand the free gift is resurrection from death and the grave...for as in adam all die...even so in Christ shall All be made Alive.Its His free gift to all men.
It is a tool to succor Christians into thinking that Mormons are also Christians
Nope thats not why we carry a bible.
And Believing in Christ is Not all that Christ requires of us to enter His Kingdom either.
jferristube 4 days ago
@jferristube
"I do accept grace is a free giftand the free gift is resurrection from death and the grave..."
If you can only be Saved (Resurrected) by Grace (Free GIft) through Faith in Jesus, then how come everyone is resurrected when they don't believe in Him? You have swallowed the Camel my friend.
jonathandavid33 1 day ago
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@jonathandavid33 then how come everyone is resurrected when they don't believe in Him? You have swallowed the Camel my friend.
Becos Every knee WILL bow and Confess
Also as Paul said
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
jferristube 22 hours ago
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@jonathandavid33 You have rejected the Word of God and are an enemy of the Cross of Christ.
Oh so I have rejected the word of god bcos I said "Yo" instead of "Our"
Your judgements are Not Christlike biblical judgements.Thankfully I need not fear what judgements you or any others may make of me for I Fear NO man but my Lord and Saviour.In this case I will say "MY" Savior as I believe in the Christ as taught in the Bible whose judgements are Righteous. Thank you :0))
jferristube 2 weeks ago
@jonathandavid33 Cont
just like the 1st thief who taunted the Saviour saying..."prove you are the Son of God.Climb down off this cross and save us all.
Didnt work for him and it wont work for those who follow his example now will it!
Thats what LDS haters love to have all the time...Proof.
We rely on Faith in Heavenly Father His Son Jesus Christ and in the power of the Holy Ghost.It is by this power that God teaches us to know the truth of All things.
Simple
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jonathandavid33 I have to tell you the truth and that is that you are wrong and do not know the Bible
Seems you do not know the most simple biblical doctrines concerning paradise and the kingdom of God or the absolute necessity for baptism as proclaimed by Christ Himself.
Seems its you who doesnt know your bible Jonathan.Listening to deceiving spirits and doctrines of devils is not good 1Tim 4:1 :o)
Paradise and the Kingdom of God are definitely Not the same place.Proof enuff
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jonathandavid33
Check the original greek and tell me how you place the comma before and not after "today"
By the way...
Put the comma wherever ya wanna put it bro. I dont care. It has No bearing whatsoever on the truth of the matter. :0)
All good
You are propping up a Mormon lie that does not reconcile with the biblical scriptures
Yea right!!! LOLA Jonathan
I remember a scripture somthin like this.Those who dig the pit for others shall into it themselves Fall
Your choice
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube
"Those who dig the pit for others shall into it themselves Fall" How ironic! You should heed your own warning blind one.
jonathandavid33 2 weeks ago
@jonathandavid33 You should heed your own warning blind one.
Unlike you I am not the one proclaiming that You or anybody else is going to Hell as you and your friends on these forums do to us LDS :0)).Not that it bothers me.It does Not by any means.All good
jferristube 2 weeks ago
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@jferristube
"I am not the one proclaiming that You or anybody else is going to Hell as you and your friends on these forums do to us LDS"
I have never said you or any Mormon is going to Hell and I do not have any friends that would have said it either. The Bible teaches us not to make such a statement. Only ignorant people would assume they know. Now that accusation exposes one of us as a liar. Who is it Silly one..Knock yourself out. Show me where i said you or Mormons are going to hell.
jonathandavid33 4 days ago
@jferristube
"No other way to read that" So you would rather teach that Jesus is a liar? Study the original greek SIlly Mormon. Your ignorance is showing.
jonathandavid33 2 weeks ago
@jferristube The three kingdoms in Mormonism mean levels of Mormon heaven, but when you read 1 Cor 15:41, Paul's intent is clarified; he was referring to the sun, moon, and stars, not kingdoms. This clearly undermines the LDS claim of multiple levels of heaven.
moparmonster1965 1 month ago
@moparmonster1965 Paul's intent is clarified; he was referring to the sun, moon, and stars, not kingdoms
He was referring to the resurrection of all souls.We are all resurrected according to our lives and the final judgement.He compares the resurrection of all mankind as differing in glory just as the sun moon and stars differ in degrees of "glory"
We all obey gods will to differing degrees.Theres not Just Heaven or Hell
The sun moon and stars is used as an allegory.
jferristube 1 month ago
@jferristube Yes, we are all resurrected, but Mormon resurrection and Christian resurrection are two very different concepts.
This is rooted in the LDS' version of the nature of mankind, which is essentially good, and the Christian version, which is that mankind is essentially evil and selfish. The nature of the savior has to be thus realigned, too. The Mormon jesus offers exaltation to a perfected few whereas the Biblical Jesus offers salvation to the unworthy.
Big difference, huh?
moparmonster1965 1 month ago
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@moparmonster1965 The Mormon jesus offers exaltation to a perfected few whereas the Biblical Jesus offers salvation to the unworthy.
Sorry but you have it wrong.
Salvation from Death/the grave is Christs free gift to ALL MEN.Good and evil.
Exaltation in the highest of Gods Kingdoms we Must obey and keep His commandments.Thru faith (which is dead without "works") nd Obedience we are not only saved but be exalted becomin Heirs to all the Father has just as Christ promised
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965
If your saying he was just referring to the sun moon and stars then what does that comparison have to do with the context of the resurrection as discussed by Paul in the chapter you refer to?
jferristube 1 month ago
@moparmonster1965 The three kingdoms in Mormonism mean levels of Mormon heaven,
Paul speaks of 3 Heavens so there must be THREE heavens and Paul refers to the resurrection(of all mankind) as a similarity to the sun moon and stars.The resurrection of the dead will differ in glory between us all just as the sun moon nd stars All differ in Glory.Simple
jferristube 1 month ago
There's also the language barrier that exists between Mormons and Christians, and that's the reason that so many get confused after speaking to the missionaries, coming away with the impression that you believe as we do. That's simply not true.
moparmonster1965 1 month ago
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@moparmonster1965 coming away with the impression that you believe as we do. That's simply not true.
No we do not believe as you do thats the point.LOL
We believe what the apostles of the NT and Christ Himself taught and not the apostate contradicting/confusing teachings of all the differing Christian Sects.Simple
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube The problem with your interpretation is that the Bible, in the LDS mind, is deeply flawed and thus unreliable, so you really can't count on it to support your position, can you? You also don't have ready access to the corrected version, so any use of the Bible to prop up Mormon claims has to be accompanied by an asterisk.
moparmonster1965 1 month ago
@moparmonster1965 the Bible, in the LDS mind, is deeply flawed and thus unreliable
It is Not flawed as long as it is translated correctly.Simple.We believe and accept the Bible as the word of God in its entirety.
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 in the LDS mind, is deeply flawed and thus unreliable
No we believe it is mans uninspired interpretation of the Bible that is the Problem.Not the Bible itself by any means.
EG
One sect teaches that no one can enter the kingdom of God without baptism and another can come along and say No thats Not right saying you can enter without baptism and they recite the thief on the cross as the example.Whose right?Which Gospel is the right.true one pls?
jferristube 3 weeks ago
Yes, we've seen several examples of people being granted salvation without benefit of baptism. When Joseph Smith wrote the BOM and gave his fictional revelations in D&C, he did so from the misunderstanding about the nature of baptism.
Water baptism is nothing more than the public display of our surrender to God's will and the physical embodiment of our commitment to His. That's it. It's not required, nor is it a sacrament.
moparmonster1965 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 Yes, we've seen several examples of people being granted salvation without benefit of baptism
So your saying that when the Savior said.No man shall enter unless theyre baptised...went back on His word?
Even He was baptised having No need of it so Im figurin His example shud be followed dont you Mopa?
"Baptism" is Nothing more than???
Again.He said ... Except a man be born of water and of the spirit...
It most definitely Is a requirement according to Christ
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube Take a look at the 10 lepers, the weeping woman, and the thief. All achieved salvation without benefit of baptism. True, they're the exception and not the rule, but once again, you're accepting the Bible when it suits you because your church canonized the flawed version of the Bible, didn't it?
moparmonster1965 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 Take a look at the 10 lepers, the weeping woman, and the thief. All achieved salvation without benefit of baptism.
Nope they did not receive salvation.They were healed of ther affirmaties thats all. Only one leper out of 10 evn thanked the Lord
To say the Lord excused them of baptism makes the Savior a liar.
The Savior said ...unless a man is born of water nd the spirit etc...no other way to interpret that now is there? :0)
jferristube 3 weeks ago
The Mormon view, of course, is like that of Catholicism, but can't Jesus make an exception to His own rule? I bet He can.
And Mormon interpretation is a funny thing, since you use the version of the Bible that we already know is incorrect, so you have no idea what is and is not right, do you?
moparmonster1965 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 The Mormon view, of course, is like that of Catholicism, but can't Jesus make an exception to His own rule?
Why would He?He doesnt have to for a start and as the scriptures say.Though the Heavens and the Earth pass away his word will not pass away. The fact remains that what He said was "No man shall enter" He did not add a ps and say... but Ill let some of you in without it or I might just change my mind some time down the road.
Cont...
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 Cont...
Or did I miss that scripture somewhere Mopa?
Seems you do exactly what you falsely acuse me of doing.Pick and choose scripture to suit your story.Even try to change what Christ said.And acuse Joseph of the very same thing.Are you also a prophet??? :0) Tisktisk now.
I notice ya still havent commented on the Proof you requested of me with regards to Paradise and the Kingdom of God not being the same place.Youve just given me excuses. Lame ones LOL
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 so you have no idea what is and is not right, do you?
Yes we do as we have the KJV the BoM and living prophets just as the ancient saints.Now that makes us the luckiest people on the face of the planet.Thank you very much
ps I do know that paradise and gods kingdom are NOT the same place.You say they are ARE the same place. Ive given you proof from the commonly known and accepted story surrounding the resurrection.That on the 3rd day after his death...cont
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 Cont...
That on the 3rd day after His death Christ forbade Mary to touch Him BECAUSE He had Not yet Ascended to His Father in Heaven.So obviously He did Not go there on the Friday with the thief now did He! Plain simple truth that your bible does not seem to enlighten you with.Seems you're the one reading the incorrect bible version bro.LOL.Again I am reminded of the scripture warning.Those who dig the pit for others shall into it themselves Fall.Careful bro
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube Off the top of my head, Jesus said to the thief that he would be in Paradise with Him that day, didn't he? I realize that in Momronism, Paradise is some other place, but there's no Biblical standard for that assumption, only the church's word, a word that has been proven to be a lie in the past.
moparmonster1965 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 Paradise is some other place, but there's no Biblical standard for that assumption
On the sunday of Christs Resurrection He had still not ascended to his Father in heaven.He stated that fact himself when he forbade Mary saying ...touch me Not.
Thats your biblical standard and it aint (is that correct english mopa?) "Assumption" or the churchs "word" It is written.Christ 3 days aftr death had not yet ascended to His Fathers kingdom.From His own mouth.Got it???
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 and the thief. All achieved salvation without benefit of baptism
The thief was forgiven his sins by the lord and yes, was saved from suffering for his sins.He was promised paradise Not the Kingdom of Heaven on that day.The thief did Not get to go to the Kingdom of God.He was promised Paradise only.Paradise and the Kingdom of God are Not the same place.No one as Christ said will enter Gods Kingdom without Baptism just as Christ said.Simple
We accept the KJV
jferristube 3 weeks ago
In light of that, please explain to me how the Mormon god allowed the corrected version to slip through his fingers and into the hands of the apostate RLDS.
moparmonster1965 3 weeks ago
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@moparmonster1965 In light of that, please explain to me how the Mormon god allowed the corrected version to slip through his fingers and into the hands of the apostate RLDS.
Dont understand ur question or statement.Sorry
What version?
In light of what exactly?
jferristube 3 weeks ago
If Joseph Smith had to make 'thousands of corrections to the text and restore information that had been lost (Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, p 208, 2007 edition)," and that "ignorant translators, craeless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors (as above, p 207)," you clearly don't have the correct edition, do you?
moparmonster1965 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 you clearly don't have the correct edition, do you?
We have enuff for now and one day the Lord will reveal all that was lost from the Biblical cannon.Without a doubt But only when we are ready to receive it.The world is not yet ready for that great day but it will come and anyone with half a brain would know that the Bible cannot possibly contain All that god wants us to know.That is a tact of satan.Keep everyone in the dark and Ignorant.Your choice Mopa
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 you clearly don't have the correct edition, do you
Thousands of corrections???Nope.Not at all!
We have what we need given us from God thru the prophet Joseph Smith.Thank you very much :0)
Anyway ya think that men who did not claim to be prophets or even inspired by god could Not make mistakes?Look at the catholic church.They were the only "christians"? for almost 2000 yrs.The catholic hierachy ruled like devils for centuries.No corruption???Of course not!LOL
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube Again, I realize that Mormonism adds a number of celestial places that aren't supported Biblically or even in the BOM, so I see where you're coming from, wrong though you are.
moparmonster1965 3 weeks ago
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@moparmonster1965 Again, I realize that Mormonism adds a number of celestial places that aren't supported Biblically
Hello.Anyone Home in there?
Again Paul said...there are Bodies Celestial etcetc and glories of the stars that all differ one from another in glory. So very biblical and very true.
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 Take a look at the 10 lepers, the weeping woman, and the thief. All achieved salvation without benefit of baptism
Again they were cured...not saved.
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube I can also see how your reading of the Bible, peering through the distorted lens of Mormonism would give you that impression. But again, without the corrected version of the Bible, you don't know what is and isn't correct.
Have you ever asked your bishop about that?
moparmonster1965 3 weeks ago
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@moparmonster1965 Have you ever asked your bishop about that?
About what?
The answers and proof I gave for paradise Not being the Kingdom of God is the same in every bible including the KJV.Surprised???IE On the 3rd day Christ forbade Mary to Touch Him Not as he had not yet ascended to His Fathers kingdom.Simple truth. That was on the Sunday.On the 3rd day after His crucifixion so Christ did Not go to the Kingdom of Heaven on the Friday and Paradise is not Gods kingdom
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 without the corrected version of the Bible,
And which of the thousands of versions out there is the correct version Mopa?Which one do you use?
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 Take a look at the 10 lepers, the weeping woman, and the thief. All achieved salvation without benefit of baptism. True, they're the exception and not the rule
Sorry but Christ makes it clear.There are NO exceptions Mopa.None!
Like I said.They were cured of infirmities and thats all.Whether they truely accepted Christ and defended Him in the end or denied Him is not stated.
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 your church canonized the flawed version of the Bible, didn't it?
Where ya gety this info bro?
Again we use the KJV
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube This is where Mormons get hung: which denomination is right? Jesus has no denomination, but if you wanted to be like Him, it stands to reason that you'd convert to Judaism instead of Mormonism.
moparmonster1965 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 This is where Mormons get hung: which denomination is right? Jesus has no denomination
Yes that is right.He does not But Christianity does.Which Christian denomination is teaching the correct/complete and true Gospel as Christ taught?Which denomination Mopa?
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube I already told you: there is no specific denomination. I grew up strict Roman Catholic and they have their own explanations as to why they are correct and everyone else is wrong, something I struggled with for years. The answer was a lot simpler than I ever imagined.
You, however, cannot accept this because, assuming that the BOM is correct, believe that he Bible is in error. Since a Bible-based church is the true Christian 'denomination,' you'll never get where you want to go.
moparmonster1965 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 You, however, cannot accept this because, assuming that the BOM is correct, believe that he Bible is in error.
Nope.We believe the Bible(KJV) and accept it as the most correct translation.
And I already told you that ther are 1000's of denominations claiming the true gospel
They cannot all be teaching diffrent gospels and all be teaching the truth.Simple.
Christ did Not have "denominations'You are so right so who has the truth Mopa?You?
jferristube 3 weeks ago
@jferristube And yet we know that the Mormon god says otherwise, in both the BOM and D&C 73:3-4, don't we? Why, if the KJV is the most corredt translation, did he tell Joseph Smith to retranslate it?
Yes, that's right, there are thousands, and I'm telling you that they're all wrong in their claims. The truth is in the word of God, not a building, not a denomination, not a particular faith.
moparmonster1965 3 weeks ago
@moparmonster1965 Why, if the KJV is the most corredt translation, did he tell Joseph Smith to retranslate it?
I wouldve thought the answer to a bright spark like yoself would not need to have that explained to you.But there again.Like I said.The truth when presented clearly and simply for you and you still deny the truth in the end.All good