I could just picture being some 10-year old suburban Baby Boomer in 1970, my Squaresville Mom giving me a copy of Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen" #135, having no clue of the contents.
30-odd pages later, I'm in wild-eyed, mind-blown freakout mode, babbling like Dennis Hopper in Apocalypse Now, convinced I have been through the other side.
Musta been a trip. His Marvel work was just a prelude to the COSMIC epic that was the Fourth World.
Amazing such a talent could've been messed over so badly, particularly when it comes to Marvel. DC at least tried to do right by him over the years but for whatever reason, MArvel has (and probably always will) have a bug up their butt when it comes to him. But then, Marvel (the higher-ups, not the writers/artists that work there) has historically always been a bunch of shysters and getting over on somebody whenever possible.
Much love to Lee and Kirby, Kane and Finger, Siegel and Schuster, and Ditko and Kirby, but in my opinion the best writer-artist team in the history of comics was and is Neal Adams and Denny O'neil.
@xJoeEDangerouslyx No argument that Adams and O' Neil had a massive impact on comics in general from bringing Batman back to his Dark Knight roots, plus taking on the comics code when it came to subjects like racism, drug abuse, and championing creators rights on behalf of Siegel & Shuster during the 1970s.
IMHO DC Comics would likely have gone under by the mid 1970s if Adams & O' Neil hadn't come on the scene.
I have never seen a longer argument on youtube. I mean seriously like 17 pages? Of course i didn't read it all but my god... cha and scor...melach whatever
Also Jack Schiff sued Kirby at this time, for breach of contract on Sky Masters, he thought he could convince a judge, he was unable to
Kirby lost the suit also what didn't help matters was Kirby's faulty what didn't help matters, Kirby's wandering mind, and faulty memory, and his eccentric manner of speaking, he was simply a bad witness, Roz would remark "Under oath, he couldn't get his own name right". So Kirby lost the suit had to pay Schiff out of his own checkbook in 1960 when the suit
Look ,tell you what. Ill shut my trap and you tell me what you feel I should know. You have already given me some things to chew on .Honestly. But Im not sure how I can help. You see Im a Han Solo not a Luke Skywalker. Go ahead. No more blood, OK? Sound fair? Im a man of my word. They havent robbed me of that yet. The floors yours.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Alright Kirby roots were those of an immigrant kid from TLES who knew nothing about business he wasn't a lawyer, he didn't have the purple prose of a Stan Lee, his main concern was providing for his family and being creative, he basically built up Marvel, who signed him on when he couldn't get work form anyone else and Marvel was his only option for better or worse, Marvel denied him health coverage, they never gave him anything in the way of long term security.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH They always evaded paying Kirby a pittance extra for using the Simon & Kirby Captain America, they never paid him anything in royalties from toy sales, use of his artwork in animation, they gave no promise of long term security when his health and eyesight began to fail, in the event he wouldn't be able to draw his family would be penniless. Whenever he tried to ask for better conditions the response was always "we'll get back to you on it" He always was represented by Marvel PR
As being nothing more than Stan's stooge and they constantly promoted the idea that Stan created everything,
In the 1970s the new owners of Marvel even had the idea that Stan drew the comics himself.
They changed his Hulk poster art by Herb Tripe putting a Hulk face on it for which Jack got nothing.
They offered him a contract in the seventies which would have met no security for his wife and children, and Stan Lee changed the Silver Surfer's origin.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And Marvel stole Kirby's original art and even gave some of it away to employees when they were returning other artists original work, and tried to blackmail Kirby over the return of it for a couple of decades up until the last years of his life, when they were finally shamed into returning it.
The only halfway decent thing Marvel did for Kirby's family was providing an insurance policy for Roz Kirby which took effect a year after her husband died and lasted until her death.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And those are the main points, I could bring up the fact of Kirby's firing back in the 1940s from Captain America (which was more than likely due to Stan Lee, but if I went into every detail of Kirby history we'd reach the 500 comment mark.
@cha5 Fair enough. But there is a question gnawing at the back of my brain. Why wasnt Jack approached by any other visionaries? I mean , surely there was someone out there that could have provided him with the security he needed to protect his family. I mean was it the art its self. Had his style become obsolete? I dont get it.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Because for starters Kirby was unable to work for DC owing to a lawsuit over the comicstrip "Sky Master's" which Kirby worked on with Wally Wood and other artists Jack Schiff was a man who edited the strip, Schiff demanded top pay and billing Kirby and Dave Wood the writer (no relation to Wally) would split the rest, all expenses for inker,the letterer, etc would come out of Kirby and Wood's own pockets, Jack didn't think this was equitable and that Schiff did that much work.
Wally basically said "If we don't give him a percentage, he'll be furious with you, and with me,"
Schiif demanded a kickback,
Kirby gave in, making himself furious
Then Schiif demanded a larger share, This time Kirby decided he could no longer refrain from making Schiff furious and exploded, Schiff who was a key figure at DC also lost his temper and Jack was no longer working at DC on the comic 'Challengers Of The Unknown' or anything else,
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Marvel was the only other place Jack could get work at the time, Archie wasn't hiring him and so Jack started out on the low paying job of doing monster art for Marvel. Superheros would come along later.
@cha5 I feel like such a shit. I have a confession to make. The Jack situation has always bugged me for years but Ive been jamming it down. What the hell is happening to me? Maybe its because my starting point was as bad if not worse than Jacks. I just dont know. Im getting upset and I dont like it. He deserves a tribute. Its just that where I came from you fall you dont get up. Im sorry about my rants. I dont know what I was trying to proove. You really care dont you?
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Yeah I do, honestly, it's something that's just kind of always been close to my heart ever since I first started really getting into his art, I only wish I could have met the man.
@cha5 Dear cha, I have been removing some comments based on questions Ive been asking myself.I went back and looked over our conversation. I realized suddenly that we were often times talking about two different issues.But although I feel that I still stand by many of the points I made,I didnt see the need to rip into Jack,so I declined. Know what I mean? I hope you understand my motives.I will take some time in the future to express where we got our wires crossed concerning the words(contabove)
@cha5 'representation,recognition and others. But thank you just the same for sharing this information. I learned a thing or two,,,about Jack that is(chuckle) No hard feelings, unless you find yourself in the mood for that sort of thing someday.hahaha.Take Care.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Cont was finally settled, Losing the suit destroyed any hopes he might have working at DC, so Marvel was his only option at this time.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I will admit that Stan at times would credit Kirby as a co-creator, but these were ususally done after it became common knowledge, in any headlines like when Fellini said he wanted to meet the "man who created Marvel comics" Stan got trotted out, not Jack, and when Roz or Jack complained Stan's usual response was something like "I don't write the headlines"
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Jack's kids get no returns from the Marvel films or any of the Marvel merchandise or cartoons, and memories of their father and what he and their mother went through with Marvel are a big reason that they've sued Disney in a lawsuit for the return of 45 characters Kirby created and Captain America although Joe Simon has sued Marvel as well in that regard, Disney tried to get the lawsuit dismissed but were unable to. sure GREED's a factor; but their fathers legacy is a biggerone.
@cha5 Well put. People think that the kids are just money grubbing, but they were old enough to know the turmoil Marvel put their parents through. ANd Jack lived for his wife and kids and a lot of his decisions were based on them being taken care of, even if in the long run, it would've been best for him to fight.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I can rob someone blind if I'm holding a gun to their head, Marvel just did the same thing but with a constant stream of bullshit that holds no more rational than your excuses do.
I dont understand. How ass kissing? Could you explain that? and then tell me all about poor Jack. I learn, earn and churn out the pages. And when the day comes that Im no longer satisfied I hope my private work is ready.
My opinions have an effect on my life AND MY POCKETBOOK. Its not one or the other, its balance. Whats your take home? LOL Cog? interesting. Yah it seems to work for everyone around me too. Catch my drift? No, probably not. No shame in that.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Now back to the fact that Jack got shafted, in what universe does any industry have a right to steal Kirby's work and basically try to blackmail him for the return of it?
@cha5 Well that depends. On your representation. No black n White kid. And I told you before. We (people) have no rights. Thats an illusion. There is only power and wits.
@cha5 You dont hear me. Your quite right. I agree with you. But thats the way it goes. Over and over, in so many circles. God dammit, there is a sucker born every minute. They got away with it TOO DIDNT THEY? A game. Nothing more. You make your own justice not moan for a hand out.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I hear you, I just have no patience with you, and your excuses for what Marvel did,
Comics history is not going to be on the side of the Martin Goodmans and Mort Weisingers view of how to treat your comics creators, like they did back in their day.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Plus as for it being over Disney and the Kirby family are still in this supreme court lawsuit being represented by the same lawyer who represented Seigel & Shuster and their familys, so this whole matter is far from over.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH So cut out your stupid rationalizing, Kirby had to fight the last decade of his life for the return of his art and it's likely a factor that led to his heart attacks and eventual death.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH He wasn't a lawyer or a business man or a hustler, marvel took advantage of him because of that, he left Marvel because he had no options PERIOD!
@SCORNDOGGMELACH He wasn't a lawyer or a business man or a hustler, marvel took advantage of him because of that, he left Marvel because he had no other options PERIOD!
Well, let me ask you this? Have you any advice to help me make a career for myself? Oh wait ,I forgot, that wont be necessary. But you can answer anyway.,,,,,,,,,,cantcha?
This is about oppinions and how we see things. Are we supposed to agree? Im not sure about that, but I know what works for me. All bullshit aside. Rest in Peace Jack. We ALL miss you Mr. Grimmmmmm.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH You haven't adressed any topics like the theft of Kirby's original art, the fact that he got paid more in animation than he ever did at Marvel, the ongoing lawsuit, the Simon & Kirby Captain America ownership, everytime those subjects come up you evade them as usual.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH It's very simple, Kirby was shafted by Marvel and all your rationalizing and excuses won't change that fact and the fact that most fans and professionals can acknowledge that (yourself not included)
@cha5 Foul villain/ HAHAHAHA too many comic books pal. I told you. Wake up! I Know you would. But I told you before I get to speak my mind here with no identity. If you met me you would never know it. My point is I would tell you but there is just one thing. IM NOT jACK!HAHAHAHA aduhhh! hahaha
@SCORNDOGGMELACH oh yes he got recognition at the end of his life and his family has made more money than Kirby ever did in his lifetime, Roz's insurance coverage being the prime example.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Oh yeah McFarlane again the man who got taken to court twice By Gaiman and once by the real life Tony Twist, as i recall he lost his balls in that one.
#19the bottom line not truth and justice for all wonderboy.Softies call this evil and corrupt.They just dont get it.They only see the personal. "Oh thats not nice." Nice or mean has nothing to do with the business true believer(sucker). Romitta, Ditko,Bucemma, Colan etc etc were all present and making names for themselves. Now why on earth would you risk upsetting this productive houshold for one mans pissings and moanings? Start making moves like that you will live to regret it.(contabove)
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I see the bullshit excuses that this industry has always come up with and and that productive household needs to learn to get with the times, they aren't serfs and that rational doesn't sell anymore.
#18 so that he could receive the same pay. Now this guy comes to you and says"Hey lets make Jack art director so that he can receive more pay. "Gee let me think this over and get it straight." Pay Jack more. hmmmmm. Do we need a new art director? Do we need Jack for that matter? Hmmmmm. Actually I dont know if I want Jack interfering with our other rising stars, who quite frankly seem to be threatoning Jacks peace of mind" More pay? No sorry. Business and surviving/thriving is about (contabove)
@SCORNDOGGMELACH The general response when Jack asked for even a slight improvement on his situation was always on the lines of "we'll get back to you" Jack stayed with Marvel until it was no longer an option due to his health and the new terms the new owners came up with. Stan was a hustler and was able to make his own way, that wasn't Jack Kirby and never would be.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Bullshit! Jack's main concern was providing for Roz and his four kids, the fact that he was losing his vision and his complete lack of health coverage by Marvel.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Jack encouraged new talent throughout his career, tell me exactly where he said something like "hey Stan that Steranko kid, get rid of him"
@SCORNDOGGMELACH You worked hard to get into this industry and you became as big a lowlife as Jim Shooter/ Mort Weisinger /Martin Goodman was on their worst days, congratulatons.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And I'll be waiting for the day when you make your mark in this BUSINESS pal, but I'm not counting on you ever making it up to the level of a Jack Kirby, you do sound like you're right out of the Martin Goodman family tree though :P
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Oh you love the man but aren't above LYAO at his situation and what he went through with Marvel, not to mention other creators and their situations throughout the sorry history of this industry as in the case of Siegle & Shuster, Bill Finger. I hate the double standards of this industry, I love the comics medium but the industry F--K IT!
@SCORNDOGGMELACH No the industry patriarchs were experts in butt kissing the mob for instance which Harry Boltinoff was bosum buddies with, and Martin Goodman who never had a creative bone in his life but he was great at numbers crunching and copying other peoples ideas. "It's just business, NOT PERSONAL"
great, you know your Godfather quotes. "It's those sociably deficient retarded mammas boys that really pay me. Truth"
@SCORNDOGGMELACH In anycase it wasn't the patriarchs who were responsible for the creation of this industry, without the Siegle & Shuster's the Simon & Kirby's this industry would never have gone beyond doing comicstrip reprints and crappy pulps, so don't lionize the patriarchs and how they handled their pursestrings over the creators and what they gave us.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH This medium has only recently started coming out with works like Acme Novelty Library, David Mazzucchelli's Asterios Polypll, Persepolis, Crumb's 'Book of Genesis' Black Hole, and other works which are COMPLETELY NEW!, but of course you wouldn't realize that being as you've probably never even read them.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH The main thing I remeber is that by the 1980s Kirby though the term "The King Of Comics" was a cruel joke, of course this time was when Kirby had left comics for animation character design work and was fighting to get his original artwork back from Marvel which thanks to fan and professional support they finally were shamed into returning 40% of it.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH No this issue was about the facts that Kirby got just about no insurance coverage from Marvel, that he was losing his vision in both eyes and had no financial security for him and his wife and four children, Which was a main factor in his leaving Marvel in the 1970s.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And the fact that most of the artists we're talking about were nothing close to businessmen and hustlers when they started out and were shafted is just the basic business as defined by the Martin Goodman's and Mort Weisinger's of this business is just a piss poor example of "business as usual"
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Oh I see so if a Jerry Seigel and a Joe Shuster are on the verge of starvation in the 1970s and a movie is going to rake in the millions while they're in the gutter too damn bad huh?
In re: the REAL BOOKS argument. It doesn't hold water. Tell it to Michael Chabon or Jonathan Lethem or David Mamet. The authors of REAL BOOKS have taken and are taking inspiration from George Herriman and Harvey Kurtzman and Jack Kirby and Alan Moore and Steve Gerber and Walt Kelly and Chris Ware and Jules Feiffer and a list of other names far too long to recount here.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Horseshit this medium is an artform that is only limited by what it's creators are willing to put into it, The last time I checked "Jimmy Corrigan, The Smartest Kid On Earth" (which has even been recognized by The Guardian and Time Magazine and The New Yorker as a significant work of literature and art) has a the criteria to meet the definition of a REAL BOOK as do Maus, Palestine, Robert Crumb's Book Of Genesis and countless other works Cont
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Plus of course Watchmen was even nominated as one of the most 100 significant novels of our time by Time magazine, although it's ridiculous that there was no nomination of any other graphic novels in that list. This medium has no limitations on what it can achieve, as to the comics industry ala Marvel & DC though with it's gangster like history towards its creators which it's had since the days Harry Boltinoff was chummy with the mob and he put out porn, that's another matter.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Oh and for the record the history of Kirby and Marvel was never just about a power struggle between two creative egos, it's about a corporation denying the man who was one of it's main building blocks his original artwork (which was a case of theft on Marvel's part pure and simple and was a battle that Kirby spent the last years of his life fighting) Marvel cartoons and toys that used Kirby art during the sixties which he didn't get a nickle for and other factors.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH "Collecting dust eh? no big suprise there, Hey sweatshops are a B-U-S-I-N-E-S-S too and I hold them to about the same standard as I do Marvel and their track record regarding creators rights.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH McFarlane? oh yes a perfect example of industry ethics what with the ham fisted way he tried to gain the rights to Miracle Man and his handling of Neil Gaiman's character Angelica in which he got hauled into court twice by Gaiman. Not the best of examples sunshine.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And a Happy New Year to you as well, I'm not the one who should be working on deadline to earn his Marvel paycheck, you and McFarlane have the exact same grasp of ethics ZERO.
The reason Jack was made the art director was he was doing layouts for a large number of the Marvel titles basically showing other artists how it should be done the Marvel (Kirby) way. and plotting those stories as well.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH "Rights? Rights? LOL There are no rights. We have no rights."
And neither did Kirby back then which was why he left M
when in january of 1970 the new owners of Marvel with their new lawyers and their new demands mailed to Kirby in which the terms were basically no raise, no credit, and no security Marvel could do just about anything it wanted, including firing him whenever they felt like it. And if he signed he could never sue them for anything done in the past or the future
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I'm in my own business thanks and one of the first things we learned was not to screw over our employees, and have some regard for our customers neither of which you ever picked up on.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Yeah well the Weisinger/Goodman model for doing business is no longer something creators will accept point blank, thanks to people like Kirby, Jerry Robinson, Eisner, and most Indy creators.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Kirby cared far more about his fans family and other professionals and this medium in general than this pissant industry ever did or Stan the man with his huckster purple prose, ask Mark Evanier, Wendi Pini, Jerry Robinson, and other people who actually knew him instead of harping on about your lack of ideals regarding the human race.
@SCORNDOGGMELACH No but Coppola's basic twist on the "It's all business" outlook of the American dream is just perfect for your outlook actually my favorite quote is Balzac's "Behind every great fortune there is a crime"
1.a BUSINESS that pays no royalties in toy sales to the man who created it,
2. a BUSINESS that always keeps his level of pay at or around the same level it was when he was key to the creation of BUSINESS in 1940
3. a BUSINESS that blatantly STEALS Jack Kirby's original art and finally through an outcry from comics professionals and fans returns a small portion of it
4. a BUSINESS that offers little to no health coverage for it's key creator
6. a BUSINESS that uses Kirby's art for animation and doesn't pay him anything for it
7. a BUSINESS that in order to avoid the controversy of who created Captain America removes Joe Simon's name from a large volume Captain America reprint
8. a BUSINESS that Kirby's family has recently taken to court since the Marvel copyright claim has a limited lifespan on characters Kirby created
9. a BUSINESS that credited Stan Lee for everything
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And as I've told you countless times Jack wasn't a business man or a lawyer,
which is no excuse for screwing him over the way Marvel did in all those examples I gave you.
Now why don't you try justifying the theft of his original art? the fact that Marvel reaction to Jack whenever he tried to bring up subjects like the fact they he and Joe Simon were supposed to get a small amount of money for the use of Captain America was always on the lines of "we'll get back to you"
Nice to see how positive and philosophical Jack was, just as I always expected.
bornwithoutwarning 2 weeks ago
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I could just picture being some 10-year old suburban Baby Boomer in 1970, my Squaresville Mom giving me a copy of Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen" #135, having no clue of the contents.
30-odd pages later, I'm in wild-eyed, mind-blown freakout mode, babbling like Dennis Hopper in Apocalypse Now, convinced I have been through the other side.
Musta been a trip. His Marvel work was just a prelude to the COSMIC epic that was the Fourth World.
archer1949 1 month ago
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archer1949 1 month ago
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archer1949 1 month ago
Oh, I got it...
imdb. com/title/tt0288619
So it must be around 1986.
Thetan1974 2 months ago
Eminent!
Could we please have a date to this?
Thetan1974 2 months ago
Jack created these guys and people still think it was Stan Lee. Sad. :(
skinwalkerxxx 3 months ago
Hail to the King!
OnlyTubenami 4 months ago 7
hearing the king talk about Galactus was amazing
tereuo 5 months ago
Great clip - I love this guy - Jack Kirby's not bad either!! LOL
broken1394 5 months ago
Love !!! Thank you Jack Kirby the dream !!!
darksushi66 7 months ago
Amazing such a talent could've been messed over so badly, particularly when it comes to Marvel. DC at least tried to do right by him over the years but for whatever reason, MArvel has (and probably always will) have a bug up their butt when it comes to him. But then, Marvel (the higher-ups, not the writers/artists that work there) has historically always been a bunch of shysters and getting over on somebody whenever possible.
alekesam 7 months ago
I wish OMAC was finished. I LOVED that book. I think that would make a great movie.
sabinoson 7 months ago
I don't think you'd ever forget a Jack Kirby comic.
DaveM599 8 months ago
Much love to Lee and Kirby, Kane and Finger, Siegel and Schuster, and Ditko and Kirby, but in my opinion the best writer-artist team in the history of comics was and is Neal Adams and Denny O'neil.
-Joe E Dangerously
xJoeEDangerouslyx 10 months ago 2
@xJoeEDangerouslyx No argument that Adams and O' Neil had a massive impact on comics in general from bringing Batman back to his Dark Knight roots, plus taking on the comics code when it came to subjects like racism, drug abuse, and championing creators rights on behalf of Siegel & Shuster during the 1970s.
IMHO DC Comics would likely have gone under by the mid 1970s if Adams & O' Neil hadn't come on the scene.
cha5 9 months ago
I have never seen a longer argument on youtube. I mean seriously like 17 pages? Of course i didn't read it all but my god... cha and scor...melach whatever
yubertuber987 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
Also Jack Schiff sued Kirby at this time, for breach of contract on Sky Masters, he thought he could convince a judge, he was unable to
Kirby lost the suit also what didn't help matters was Kirby's faulty what didn't help matters, Kirby's wandering mind, and faulty memory, and his eccentric manner of speaking, he was simply a bad witness, Roz would remark "Under oath, he couldn't get his own name right". So Kirby lost the suit had to pay Schiff out of his own checkbook in 1960 when the suit
cha5 1 year ago
Look ,tell you what. Ill shut my trap and you tell me what you feel I should know. You have already given me some things to chew on .Honestly. But Im not sure how I can help. You see Im a Han Solo not a Luke Skywalker. Go ahead. No more blood, OK? Sound fair? Im a man of my word. They havent robbed me of that yet. The floors yours.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Alright Kirby roots were those of an immigrant kid from TLES who knew nothing about business he wasn't a lawyer, he didn't have the purple prose of a Stan Lee, his main concern was providing for his family and being creative, he basically built up Marvel, who signed him on when he couldn't get work form anyone else and Marvel was his only option for better or worse, Marvel denied him health coverage, they never gave him anything in the way of long term security.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH They always evaded paying Kirby a pittance extra for using the Simon & Kirby Captain America, they never paid him anything in royalties from toy sales, use of his artwork in animation, they gave no promise of long term security when his health and eyesight began to fail, in the event he wouldn't be able to draw his family would be penniless. Whenever he tried to ask for better conditions the response was always "we'll get back to you on it" He always was represented by Marvel PR
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Cont
As being nothing more than Stan's stooge and they constantly promoted the idea that Stan created everything,
In the 1970s the new owners of Marvel even had the idea that Stan drew the comics himself.
They changed his Hulk poster art by Herb Tripe putting a Hulk face on it for which Jack got nothing.
They offered him a contract in the seventies which would have met no security for his wife and children, and Stan Lee changed the Silver Surfer's origin.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And Marvel stole Kirby's original art and even gave some of it away to employees when they were returning other artists original work, and tried to blackmail Kirby over the return of it for a couple of decades up until the last years of his life, when they were finally shamed into returning it.
The only halfway decent thing Marvel did for Kirby's family was providing an insurance policy for Roz Kirby which took effect a year after her husband died and lasted until her death.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And those are the main points, I could bring up the fact of Kirby's firing back in the 1940s from Captain America (which was more than likely due to Stan Lee, but if I went into every detail of Kirby history we'd reach the 500 comment mark.
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5 Fair enough. But there is a question gnawing at the back of my brain. Why wasnt Jack approached by any other visionaries? I mean , surely there was someone out there that could have provided him with the security he needed to protect his family. I mean was it the art its self. Had his style become obsolete? I dont get it.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Because for starters Kirby was unable to work for DC owing to a lawsuit over the comicstrip "Sky Master's" which Kirby worked on with Wally Wood and other artists Jack Schiff was a man who edited the strip, Schiff demanded top pay and billing Kirby and Dave Wood the writer (no relation to Wally) would split the rest, all expenses for inker,the letterer, etc would come out of Kirby and Wood's own pockets, Jack didn't think this was equitable and that Schiff did that much work.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Cont
Wally basically said "If we don't give him a percentage, he'll be furious with you, and with me,"
Schiif demanded a kickback,
Kirby gave in, making himself furious
Then Schiif demanded a larger share, This time Kirby decided he could no longer refrain from making Schiff furious and exploded, Schiff who was a key figure at DC also lost his temper and Jack was no longer working at DC on the comic 'Challengers Of The Unknown' or anything else,
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Marvel was the only other place Jack could get work at the time, Archie wasn't hiring him and so Jack started out on the low paying job of doing monster art for Marvel. Superheros would come along later.
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5 I feel like such a shit. I have a confession to make. The Jack situation has always bugged me for years but Ive been jamming it down. What the hell is happening to me? Maybe its because my starting point was as bad if not worse than Jacks. I just dont know. Im getting upset and I dont like it. He deserves a tribute. Its just that where I came from you fall you dont get up. Im sorry about my rants. I dont know what I was trying to proove. You really care dont you?
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Yeah I do, honestly, it's something that's just kind of always been close to my heart ever since I first started really getting into his art, I only wish I could have met the man.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Anyways apology accepted, and sorry that I ripped into your career.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@cha5 Dear cha, I have been removing some comments based on questions Ive been asking myself.I went back and looked over our conversation. I realized suddenly that we were often times talking about two different issues.But although I feel that I still stand by many of the points I made,I didnt see the need to rip into Jack,so I declined. Know what I mean? I hope you understand my motives.I will take some time in the future to express where we got our wires crossed concerning the words(contabove)
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@cha5 'representation,recognition and others. But thank you just the same for sharing this information. I learned a thing or two,,,about Jack that is(chuckle) No hard feelings, unless you find yourself in the mood for that sort of thing someday.hahaha.Take Care.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Cont was finally settled, Losing the suit destroyed any hopes he might have working at DC, so Marvel was his only option at this time.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I will admit that Stan at times would credit Kirby as a co-creator, but these were ususally done after it became common knowledge, in any headlines like when Fellini said he wanted to meet the "man who created Marvel comics" Stan got trotted out, not Jack, and when Roz or Jack complained Stan's usual response was something like "I don't write the headlines"
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Jack's kids get no returns from the Marvel films or any of the Marvel merchandise or cartoons, and memories of their father and what he and their mother went through with Marvel are a big reason that they've sued Disney in a lawsuit for the return of 45 characters Kirby created and Captain America although Joe Simon has sued Marvel as well in that regard, Disney tried to get the lawsuit dismissed but were unable to. sure GREED's a factor; but their fathers legacy is a biggerone.
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5 Well put. People think that the kids are just money grubbing, but they were old enough to know the turmoil Marvel put their parents through. ANd Jack lived for his wife and kids and a lot of his decisions were based on them being taken care of, even if in the long run, it would've been best for him to fight.
alekesam 7 months ago 3
I see. I understand your position. I base the validity of a position based upon its effectiveness not sentement. BIG DIFFERENCE
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH BIG BULLSHIT! which doesn't hold water.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I can rob someone blind if I'm holding a gun to their head, Marvel just did the same thing but with a constant stream of bullshit that holds no more rational than your excuses do.
cha5 1 year ago
I dont understand. How ass kissing? Could you explain that? and then tell me all about poor Jack. I learn, earn and churn out the pages. And when the day comes that Im no longer satisfied I hope my private work is ready.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I've told you all about it, try paying attention this time!
Kirby's original art was stolen by Marvel and they tried to blackmail him for the return of it,
ooutcry from comics fans and professionals from just about every company out there shamed Marvel into returning a small percentage of it.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH As to your asskissing up to the industry you've provided countless examples of that, with your constant "might makes right" defense.
cha5 1 year ago
My opinions have an effect on my life AND MY POCKETBOOK. Its not one or the other, its balance. Whats your take home? LOL Cog? interesting. Yah it seems to work for everyone around me too. Catch my drift? No, probably not. No shame in that.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Ask me if I give a shit. I don't discuss my business online.
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5 Oh so you do have a brain. Sorry my mistake. (chuckle)
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Now back to the fact that Jack got shafted, in what universe does any industry have a right to steal Kirby's work and basically try to blackmail him for the return of it?
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5 Well that depends. On your representation. No black n White kid. And I told you before. We (people) have no rights. Thats an illusion. There is only power and wits.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Representation nothing! that's all on record, this was THEFT pure and simple.
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5 You dont hear me. Your quite right. I agree with you. But thats the way it goes. Over and over, in so many circles. God dammit, there is a sucker born every minute. They got away with it TOO DIDNT THEY? A game. Nothing more. You make your own justice not moan for a hand out.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I hear you, I just have no patience with you, and your excuses for what Marvel did,
Comics history is not going to be on the side of the Martin Goodmans and Mort Weisingers view of how to treat your comics creators, like they did back in their day.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Plus as for it being over Disney and the Kirby family are still in this supreme court lawsuit being represented by the same lawyer who represented Seigel & Shuster and their familys, so this whole matter is far from over.
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5 Fair enough. Gee do you think, I mean golly should I get more involved?
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Get more involved with developing some empathy for your fellow man, but it would be out of place for me to advise you.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH So cut out your stupid rationalizing, Kirby had to fight the last decade of his life for the return of his art and it's likely a factor that led to his heart attacks and eventual death.
cha5 1 year ago
DITO!!!! positive or negative.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
Your the Jack expert. Im the me expert. Catch my drift.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH You're an expert at industry suck up and putting out just what your bosses want.
I don't see you making much if anything worthwhile insofar as the comics medium goes, but being a cog in the machine seems to be working for you.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH He wasn't a lawyer or a business man or a hustler, marvel took advantage of him because of that, he left Marvel because he had no options PERIOD!
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH He wasn't a lawyer or a business man or a hustler, marvel took advantage of him because of that, he left Marvel because he had no other options PERIOD!
cha5 1 year ago
Well, let me ask you this? Have you any advice to help me make a career for myself? Oh wait ,I forgot, that wont be necessary. But you can answer anyway.,,,,,,,,,,cantcha?
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH No i don't think so, i couldn't in good conscience give you an endorsement and I wouldn't trust you as an employee.
cha5 1 year ago
This is about oppinions and how we see things. Are we supposed to agree? Im not sure about that, but I know what works for me. All bullshit aside. Rest in Peace Jack. We ALL miss you Mr. Grimmmmmm.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH No this is about Jack Kirby and his legacy, your opinions have no effect on it.
cha5 1 year ago
HAHAHAHA, missed that one. Gee wonder why? Hahahaha. Yes somehow it became personal. I always take it there. Sick that way I guess.
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH You haven't adressed any topics like the theft of Kirby's original art, the fact that he got paid more in animation than he ever did at Marvel, the ongoing lawsuit, the Simon & Kirby Captain America ownership, everytime those subjects come up you evade them as usual.
cha5 1 year ago
Hanging on to your seat pilgrim? Thats your problem . HAHAHAHA
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH No, this is becoming pretty route by this point.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Basically you've been coming up with nothing but crap, and as I see it nothing's changed in your basic "business as usual" defense.
cha5 1 year ago
Hes not the only one. hahaha And coming sooooon. THE GRAND SLAM!
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Oh really what's that?
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH They've all been strike outs so far, worthy of Toddy McFarlane.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH It's very simple, Kirby was shafted by Marvel and all your rationalizing and excuses won't change that fact and the fact that most fans and professionals can acknowledge that (yourself not included)
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I'm not lining your pockets and never would, foul villain.
Which comic do you work for anyways? I'd really love a name.
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5 Foul villain/ HAHAHAHA too many comic books pal. I told you. Wake up! I Know you would. But I told you before I get to speak my mind here with no identity. If you met me you would never know it. My point is I would tell you but there is just one thing. IM NOT jACK!HAHAHAHA aduhhh! hahaha
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH No you aren't and you never will be JACK SHIT hahaha.
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5 Good one. Your learning kid. got to admit it. hahaha
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Oh come on, Bleeding Cool wants to know your name.
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5 And Bleeding Cool isn't a "him" moron. unless by him you mean Rich Johnson.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH oh yes he got recognition at the end of his life and his family has made more money than Kirby ever did in his lifetime, Roz's insurance coverage being the prime example.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Oh yeah McFarlane again the man who got taken to court twice By Gaiman and once by the real life Tony Twist, as i recall he lost his balls in that one.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH The creators own them jackass, wjho dod you think owns Mr Natural? R Crumb
not to mention Jim valentino owns Shadowhawk, Sam Keith owns The Maxx etc.
cha5 1 year ago
#19the bottom line not truth and justice for all wonderboy.Softies call this evil and corrupt.They just dont get it.They only see the personal. "Oh thats not nice." Nice or mean has nothing to do with the business true believer(sucker). Romitta, Ditko,Bucemma, Colan etc etc were all present and making names for themselves. Now why on earth would you risk upsetting this productive houshold for one mans pissings and moanings? Start making moves like that you will live to regret it.(contabove)
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I see the bullshit excuses that this industry has always come up with and and that productive household needs to learn to get with the times, they aren't serfs and that rational doesn't sell anymore.
cha5 1 year ago
#18 so that he could receive the same pay. Now this guy comes to you and says"Hey lets make Jack art director so that he can receive more pay. "Gee let me think this over and get it straight." Pay Jack more. hmmmmm. Do we need a new art director? Do we need Jack for that matter? Hmmmmm. Actually I dont know if I want Jack interfering with our other rising stars, who quite frankly seem to be threatoning Jacks peace of mind" More pay? No sorry. Business and surviving/thriving is about (contabove)
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH The general response when Jack asked for even a slight improvement on his situation was always on the lines of "we'll get back to you" Jack stayed with Marvel until it was no longer an option due to his health and the new terms the new owners came up with. Stan was a hustler and was able to make his own way, that wasn't Jack Kirby and never would be.
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5 BINGO!
SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Bullshit! Jack's main concern was providing for Roz and his four kids, the fact that he was losing his vision and his complete lack of health coverage by Marvel.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Jack encouraged new talent throughout his career, tell me exactly where he said something like "hey Stan that Steranko kid, get rid of him"
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Jack bigs concern was providing for his family not gettting praise fro the higher ups try again.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Really? I have yet to see any example of it on your part, plenty of EGO but you've got the ethics of a lobbyist.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH You worked hard to get into this industry and you became as big a lowlife as Jim Shooter/ Mort Weisinger /Martin Goodman was on their worst days, congratulatons.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And I'll be waiting for the day when you make your mark in this BUSINESS pal, but I'm not counting on you ever making it up to the level of a Jack Kirby, you do sound like you're right out of the Martin Goodman family tree though :P
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Oh you love the man but aren't above LYAO at his situation and what he went through with Marvel, not to mention other creators and their situations throughout the sorry history of this industry as in the case of Siegle & Shuster, Bill Finger. I hate the double standards of this industry, I love the comics medium but the industry F--K IT!
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Yeah you're getting paid for being an industry butt kisser, but everyone has to make a living.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH No the industry patriarchs were experts in butt kissing the mob for instance which Harry Boltinoff was bosum buddies with, and Martin Goodman who never had a creative bone in his life but he was great at numbers crunching and copying other peoples ideas. "It's just business, NOT PERSONAL"
great, you know your Godfather quotes. "It's those sociably deficient retarded mammas boys that really pay me. Truth"
John Byrne is that you?
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH In anycase it wasn't the patriarchs who were responsible for the creation of this industry, without the Siegle & Shuster's the Simon & Kirby's this industry would never have gone beyond doing comicstrip reprints and crappy pulps, so don't lionize the patriarchs and how they handled their pursestrings over the creators and what they gave us.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH This medium has only recently started coming out with works like Acme Novelty Library, David Mazzucchelli's Asterios Polypll, Persepolis, Crumb's 'Book of Genesis' Black Hole, and other works which are COMPLETELY NEW!, but of course you wouldn't realize that being as you've probably never even read them.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH The main thing I remeber is that by the 1980s Kirby though the term "The King Of Comics" was a cruel joke, of course this time was when Kirby had left comics for animation character design work and was fighting to get his original artwork back from Marvel which thanks to fan and professional support they finally were shamed into returning 40% of it.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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cha5 1 year ago
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cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Oh love and kisses for the industry again, you're great at kissing up to it.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH No this issue was about the facts that Kirby got just about no insurance coverage from Marvel, that he was losing his vision in both eyes and had no financial security for him and his wife and four children, Which was a main factor in his leaving Marvel in the 1970s.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And the fact that most of the artists we're talking about were nothing close to businessmen and hustlers when they started out and were shafted is just the basic business as defined by the Martin Goodman's and Mort Weisinger's of this business is just a piss poor example of "business as usual"
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Oh I see so if a Jerry Seigel and a Joe Shuster are on the verge of starvation in the 1970s and a movie is going to rake in the millions while they're in the gutter too damn bad huh?
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
In re: the REAL BOOKS argument. It doesn't hold water. Tell it to Michael Chabon or Jonathan Lethem or David Mamet. The authors of REAL BOOKS have taken and are taking inspiration from George Herriman and Harvey Kurtzman and Jack Kirby and Alan Moore and Steve Gerber and Walt Kelly and Chris Ware and Jules Feiffer and a list of other names far too long to recount here.
patabongo 1 year ago 3
@patabongo Very true, and in re: the REAL ARTS argument Picasso even mentioned that he had a passion for George Herriman's Krazy Kat as did Dali.
that's not even bringing up the subject of an "artist" who went out of his way to swipe from comics like Lichtenstein.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Horseshit this medium is an artform that is only limited by what it's creators are willing to put into it, The last time I checked "Jimmy Corrigan, The Smartest Kid On Earth" (which has even been recognized by The Guardian and Time Magazine and The New Yorker as a significant work of literature and art) has a the criteria to meet the definition of a REAL BOOK as do Maus, Palestine, Robert Crumb's Book Of Genesis and countless other works Cont
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH So take your definition of REAL ART and REAL LITERATURE somewhere else.
That outlook went the way of Freddie Wertham.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Plus of course Watchmen was even nominated as one of the most 100 significant novels of our time by Time magazine, although it's ridiculous that there was no nomination of any other graphic novels in that list. This medium has no limitations on what it can achieve, as to the comics industry ala Marvel & DC though with it's gangster like history towards its creators which it's had since the days Harry Boltinoff was chummy with the mob and he put out porn, that's another matter.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH If it wasn't for Kirby there wouldn't be a comics industry period as we know it.
Marvel is a monolith owned by Mickey Mouse, nothing more.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Oh and for the record the history of Kirby and Marvel was never just about a power struggle between two creative egos, it's about a corporation denying the man who was one of it's main building blocks his original artwork (which was a case of theft on Marvel's part pure and simple and was a battle that Kirby spent the last years of his life fighting) Marvel cartoons and toys that used Kirby art during the sixties which he didn't get a nickle for and other factors.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH "Collecting dust eh? no big suprise there, Hey sweatshops are a B-U-S-I-N-E-S-S too and I hold them to about the same standard as I do Marvel and their track record regarding creators rights.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH McFarlane? oh yes a perfect example of industry ethics what with the ham fisted way he tried to gain the rights to Miracle Man and his handling of Neil Gaiman's character Angelica in which he got hauled into court twice by Gaiman. Not the best of examples sunshine.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And a Happy New Year to you as well, I'm not the one who should be working on deadline to earn his Marvel paycheck, you and McFarlane have the exact same grasp of ethics ZERO.
The reason Jack was made the art director was he was doing layouts for a large number of the Marvel titles basically showing other artists how it should be done the Marvel (Kirby) way. and plotting those stories as well.
cha5 1 year ago
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cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH "Rights? Rights? LOL There are no rights. We have no rights."
And neither did Kirby back then which was why he left M
when in january of 1970 the new owners of Marvel with their new lawyers and their new demands mailed to Kirby in which the terms were basically no raise, no credit, and no security Marvel could do just about anything it wanted, including firing him whenever they felt like it. And if he signed he could never sue them for anything done in the past or the future
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Yeah well, you're a perfect model for this industrie's complete lack of ethics insofar as BUSINESS goes.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH I'm in my own business thanks and one of the first things we learned was not to screw over our employees, and have some regard for our customers neither of which you ever picked up on.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Yeah well the Weisinger/Goodman model for doing business is no longer something creators will accept point blank, thanks to people like Kirby, Jerry Robinson, Eisner, and most Indy creators.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH Kirby cared far more about his fans family and other professionals and this medium in general than this pissant industry ever did or Stan the man with his huckster purple prose, ask Mark Evanier, Wendi Pini, Jerry Robinson, and other people who actually knew him instead of harping on about your lack of ideals regarding the human race.
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH No but Coppola's basic twist on the "It's all business" outlook of the American dream is just perfect for your outlook actually my favorite quote is Balzac's "Behind every great fortune there is a crime"
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH "Rotten to the core"
1.a BUSINESS that pays no royalties in toy sales to the man who created it,
2. a BUSINESS that always keeps his level of pay at or around the same level it was when he was key to the creation of BUSINESS in 1940
3. a BUSINESS that blatantly STEALS Jack Kirby's original art and finally through an outcry from comics professionals and fans returns a small portion of it
4. a BUSINESS that offers little to no health coverage for it's key creator
Marvel Ent.
cha5 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH
6. a BUSINESS that uses Kirby's art for animation and doesn't pay him anything for it
7. a BUSINESS that in order to avoid the controversy of who created Captain America removes Joe Simon's name from a large volume Captain America reprint
8. a BUSINESS that Kirby's family has recently taken to court since the Marvel copyright claim has a limited lifespan on characters Kirby created
9. a BUSINESS that credited Stan Lee for everything
10. The house that Jack built Marvel Ent
cha5 1 year ago
@cha5
Oh I missed 5.
5. The Silver Surfer controversy (read up on it)
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And as I've told you your "friends" problems are nothing compared to what the pioneers of this industry have gone through
cha5 1 year ago
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SCORNDOGGMELACH 1 year ago
@SCORNDOGGMELACH And as I've told you countless times Jack wasn't a business man or a lawyer,
which is no excuse for screwing him over the way Marvel did in all those examples I gave you.
Now why don't you try justifying the theft of his original art? the fact that Marvel reaction to Jack whenever he tried to bring up subjects like the fact they he and Joe Simon were supposed to get a small amount of money for the use of Captain America was always on the lines of "we'll get back to you"
cha5 1 year ago