I attended meetings for three years, and yes they are a white, middle class elite peer group. They engage in subtle put downs, and refuse to take anyone seriously who falls outside their very narrow class and status perceptions. In short subtle bullies. At the core of each meeting is a gang of elites whose approval must be given on everything, they then mask this by declaring that it is God who is motivating them. Needless to say I stopped going, along with others who felt the same
@24414330 It is sad that you have had bad experiences at a Quaker Meeting. There are all kinds of dangers in any community, including elitism and bullying. I have been a Quaker for about five years and I am happy to say that my experience is very different from yours. I have found that Quaker methods tend to protect against many of the controlling mechanisms which can exist in other faith communities. But we are all human, and often humans fail to meet their own standards.
@phantomsuccour no sir, if either of the 2 groupings I mention was to join in droves, the middle class would leave en mass. its a church for a elitist middle class white clique who like their God and religion without the riff raff and black faces.
Interesting video, thanks for posting. I think that the curly-haired man and the blond lady are both wrong. If Quakerism appeals to intellectuals, there are intellectuals of color also; why aren't they present in Quakerism in the UK? If Quakers are refugees from other Christian traditions, these traditions also have people of color in them. The bald man has it right: There is something cultural about the Quakers that appeals more to Whites.
I just want to know why this video was posted? If we're supposed to be looking past a person's race, then why so many attacks upon white people? Post videos about any other race and it's instantly racist, but post something about a white person and it's acceptable, as if it's payback for historical sins of times past. Look, we're all just humans so let's quit categorizing people by their race. We can't help who our mothers and fathers were.
My wife and I are Quakers. My wife is Asian as well. We are Christ-centered and do not subscribe to this "liberal Quakerism" that BYM Is promoting on YouTube. The reason liberal "Quakers" have a difficult time explaining their beliefs is they don't have any idea what most of their beliefs are. Unlike true Quakerism, which is deeply rooted in Christ- it's actually called "primitive Christianity revived"- so-called "liberal Quakers" pretty much believe anything goes and espouse a secular humanism.
The reason why liberal Quakers take time to express their beliefs is because they are seeking the Truth before they speak. The Truth for them. Quakerism may have been started within Christianity, but "continual revelation" is also a basic tenet of my understanding of Quakerism
So "continual revelation" would include contradicting Christ or even denying he's the Son of God and Savior of the world? That form of "continual revelation" would only lead people to a dead-end, spiritually.
I can respect your point of view and at the same time disagree. I am a Universalist Quaker because I believe we all all God's children and there are many paths to God.
I am a liberal Quaker and have no problem explaining my beliefs. It does sadden me when some Friends say they are the ones who have the "true Quaker" way. What is true for me may not be true for others. Liberal Quakers do not believe any thing goes. We do not believe in going to war. We are against the death penalty. We want prison reform. We believe all loving couples should be allowed to marry. We believe the Bible was not meant to be taken literally.
The truth has to be the truth for all. Just like gravity applies to all, God's laws apply to all. Also, the early Friends certainly believed the Bible contained the words of God and they abided by its teachings. I agree with you on the issues of war and the death penalty. Of course prison reform is necessary. I do not agree that all loving couples should be allowed to marry- I take it that means homosexuals should be allowed to marry each other. That contradicts both God's law and natural law.
There were times when people raised the Bible in the air and proclaimed it was God's Word to to own slaves, to support segregation, and to deny women's right to vote. I don't care what the Quaker Founders believed. I care about what God says to me. This is what is considered continuing revelation. Not to allow gays to marry is another form of bigotry. It took Quakers a long time realize slavery was wrong. It will take awhile for all Quakers to support all loving couples getting married.
Slavery was a great evil and it did take a while for some early Friends to condemn it. Yet, some early Friends were against it from the start. However, the early Friends always maintained a belief that such sexual sins as adultery, fornication and homosexuality were wrong. Homosexuality is also an evil, an abomination condemned in both the Old and New Testiments. I'm not sure what God says to you, but is He the same God who inspired the Bible, which clearly states that homosexuality is a sin?
Jesus did not say one word about homosexuality, he said a lot about judging others. Homosexuality is not a sin any more than shaving one's beard a sin, which is against the Bible. The Bible says to honor the 7th day as sabbath, yet I dont think you honor that.. Yet you would be committing a sin not to hold sabbath on 7th day. It is a sin according to the Bible to eat certain kinds of seafood. Or to wear cotton and wool together. You should be good to your slaves according to Paul.
Yes, the book of Leviticus calls homosexuality an "abomination." So you're saying that because we're not under the Mosaic Law, homosexuality is acceptable? Yes, the Apostle Paul (called by Christ) reiterated in the New Testament that homosexuality is a sin. Jesus didn't directly speak on homosexuality because he didn't have to: homosexuality had always been condemned as a sin and completely counter to human nature. When it came to marriage, Jesus only spoke of marriage between a man and a woman.
And one more note: under your theory there is no such thing as sin because if you don't believe homosexuality is a sin, than neither should any other sin such as adultery, murder, idolatry or anything else. You're very similar to the 17th century Ranters who had much of the same reasoning as you.
Quakerism I believe is the Next progressive step from Religion. Its like it evolved from Religion into real Enlightment. It is really you could say who we are. You go beyond that stupidity of silly quarrels of who is right and who is wrong in their beliefs etc etc.
Few traditions can be so progressive; and few can boast a leading and pioneering role in civil, human, and animal rights. Amnesty, Birkbeck College has, like Barclays and Lloyds, Quaker founders. Tom Paine, who wrote the 'Rights of Man', had a Quaker father .How this tradition can be unknown is shameful & the Middle Class Migrants have a lot to live up to...
It is important to realize how much WASP culture itself is deeply influenced by Quaker ideology. WASPs are very comfortable with Quaker ideas as a result.
My definition of WASP is the usual, White Anglo Saxon Protestant. It's no more "racist" that your description of yourself as "Asian". You call yourself a Quaker, but I don't see any of the familiar traits in you. You are too busy accusing others and insisting that your specific view of the Christ is the only correct one to be listening much for the leadings of the Spirit.
If you go in any christian church in the UK and take a poll of the congregation, I reckon that in most of them (not all granted) you will find that the maority i midle class and white. Of course there are exceptions. I ust don't think you can single out Quakerism for this charge.
Also Quakerism is very much for the thinking person. I don't want to sound nasty, but this is a very much a middle class trait in the UK.
I'm mixed race and i'm an english quaker, so is my elder brother, he goes to Friends school saffron walden. I attend fsse summer school every year and of 80 of us normally around 5 or 6 are coloured. However my mother is your average middle class white-english Quaker so it's a differnt circumstance, does that make me half a white middle class quaker? lol
I'm not a Quaker but I am going to my first meeting this weekend.
I don't think Quakerism is necessarily the 'last refuge of Christian refugees' I was an atheist until very recently and find the Quaker outlook on God and religion in general very refreshing
I have huge respect for Quakers but never really understood their apparent reluctance to let others know what they believe (it is only an impression I have). In a very unscientific exercise I looked up "Quakers" on Youtube and only got 338 hits - mostly about parrots and American sport! These Watford videos are very welcome -- thank you.
I'm a Quaker and I can understand what you're saying about the Quaker reluctance to share their beliefs, but as a Quaker I find it near to impossible to explain my beliefs to friends outside Quakerism. I, personally, wouldn't say Quakers are reluctant to share their beliefs, but that a lot of Quakers find it hard to put their beliefs into words which non Quakers, who don't attend meetings, would understand. There's a feeling amongst a Quaker meeting which I find hard to put into words.
My friend is a Jewish Quaker, and Kenya has the highest rate of Quakers 130,000. So i think they have appeal, I just don't think they have much exposure or even understanding. Some people don't even know Quakers & Religious Society of Friends are the same group different names. I asked my friend (I being of Dharma faith) on if Quakers do missionary work, she said she is not sure, but her friends and group do not and respect others belief as being personal.
Have to agree, I agree with the ideas of Quakerism...I am a white, middle-class, American female...former Protestant. Perhaps, a current refugee? But, I think the real reason people of other races/backgrounds/other may not be drawn into Quakerism, is simply because they do not know what Quakerism is actually about...
never tought in schools ?
edwards21416 2 months ago
I posted a reply, it flagged post pending approval, then it disappeared. So you tell me.
24414330 3 months ago
@24414330 Strange! Comments usually appear immediately.
srekauq 3 months ago
srekaug- I replied to your reply, but i have been censored
24414330 3 months ago
@24414330 Really? Who censored you?
srekauq 3 months ago
I attended meetings for three years, and yes they are a white, middle class elite peer group. They engage in subtle put downs, and refuse to take anyone seriously who falls outside their very narrow class and status perceptions. In short subtle bullies. At the core of each meeting is a gang of elites whose approval must be given on everything, they then mask this by declaring that it is God who is motivating them. Needless to say I stopped going, along with others who felt the same
24414330 3 months ago
@24414330 It is sad that you have had bad experiences at a Quaker Meeting. There are all kinds of dangers in any community, including elitism and bullying. I have been a Quaker for about five years and I am happy to say that my experience is very different from yours. I have found that Quaker methods tend to protect against many of the controlling mechanisms which can exist in other faith communities. But we are all human, and often humans fail to meet their own standards.
srekauq 3 months ago
quakerism a gathering for the middle class where they don't have to sit next to blacks or even worse the white working class
lndac02 1 year ago
@lndac02 that's nonsense
phantomsuccour 11 months ago
@phantomsuccour no sir, if either of the 2 groupings I mention was to join in droves, the middle class would leave en mass. its a church for a elitist middle class white clique who like their God and religion without the riff raff and black faces.
lndac02 11 months ago
Interesting video, thanks for posting. I think that the curly-haired man and the blond lady are both wrong. If Quakerism appeals to intellectuals, there are intellectuals of color also; why aren't they present in Quakerism in the UK? If Quakers are refugees from other Christian traditions, these traditions also have people of color in them. The bald man has it right: There is something cultural about the Quakers that appeals more to Whites.
sammymuffin 1 year ago
I'm a quaker aswell. I fucking love that game.
Drelaz 2 years ago
I just want to know why this video was posted? If we're supposed to be looking past a person's race, then why so many attacks upon white people? Post videos about any other race and it's instantly racist, but post something about a white person and it's acceptable, as if it's payback for historical sins of times past. Look, we're all just humans so let's quit categorizing people by their race. We can't help who our mothers and fathers were.
stampguy01 2 years ago 2
My wife and I are Quakers. My wife is Asian as well. We are Christ-centered and do not subscribe to this "liberal Quakerism" that BYM Is promoting on YouTube. The reason liberal "Quakers" have a difficult time explaining their beliefs is they don't have any idea what most of their beliefs are. Unlike true Quakerism, which is deeply rooted in Christ- it's actually called "primitive Christianity revived"- so-called "liberal Quakers" pretty much believe anything goes and espouse a secular humanism.
stampguy01 2 years ago 5
The reason why liberal Quakers take time to express their beliefs is because they are seeking the Truth before they speak. The Truth for them. Quakerism may have been started within Christianity, but "continual revelation" is also a basic tenet of my understanding of Quakerism
bud4jo 2 years ago
So "continual revelation" would include contradicting Christ or even denying he's the Son of God and Savior of the world? That form of "continual revelation" would only lead people to a dead-end, spiritually.
pathoftruth1 2 years ago
I can respect your point of view and at the same time disagree. I am a Universalist Quaker because I believe we all all God's children and there are many paths to God.
MrBud4jo 2 years ago
I am a liberal Quaker and have no problem explaining my beliefs. It does sadden me when some Friends say they are the ones who have the "true Quaker" way. What is true for me may not be true for others. Liberal Quakers do not believe any thing goes. We do not believe in going to war. We are against the death penalty. We want prison reform. We believe all loving couples should be allowed to marry. We believe the Bible was not meant to be taken literally.
MrBud4jo 2 years ago 4
The truth has to be the truth for all. Just like gravity applies to all, God's laws apply to all. Also, the early Friends certainly believed the Bible contained the words of God and they abided by its teachings. I agree with you on the issues of war and the death penalty. Of course prison reform is necessary. I do not agree that all loving couples should be allowed to marry- I take it that means homosexuals should be allowed to marry each other. That contradicts both God's law and natural law.
pathoftruth1 2 years ago
There were times when people raised the Bible in the air and proclaimed it was God's Word to to own slaves, to support segregation, and to deny women's right to vote. I don't care what the Quaker Founders believed. I care about what God says to me. This is what is considered continuing revelation. Not to allow gays to marry is another form of bigotry. It took Quakers a long time realize slavery was wrong. It will take awhile for all Quakers to support all loving couples getting married.
MrBud4jo 2 years ago
Slavery was a great evil and it did take a while for some early Friends to condemn it. Yet, some early Friends were against it from the start. However, the early Friends always maintained a belief that such sexual sins as adultery, fornication and homosexuality were wrong. Homosexuality is also an evil, an abomination condemned in both the Old and New Testiments. I'm not sure what God says to you, but is He the same God who inspired the Bible, which clearly states that homosexuality is a sin?
pathoftruth1 2 years ago
Jesus did not say one word about homosexuality, he said a lot about judging others. Homosexuality is not a sin any more than shaving one's beard a sin, which is against the Bible. The Bible says to honor the 7th day as sabbath, yet I dont think you honor that.. Yet you would be committing a sin not to hold sabbath on 7th day. It is a sin according to the Bible to eat certain kinds of seafood. Or to wear cotton and wool together. You should be good to your slaves according to Paul.
MrBud4jo 2 years ago
Yes, the book of Leviticus calls homosexuality an "abomination." So you're saying that because we're not under the Mosaic Law, homosexuality is acceptable? Yes, the Apostle Paul (called by Christ) reiterated in the New Testament that homosexuality is a sin. Jesus didn't directly speak on homosexuality because he didn't have to: homosexuality had always been condemned as a sin and completely counter to human nature. When it came to marriage, Jesus only spoke of marriage between a man and a woman.
pathoftruth1 2 years ago
And one more note: under your theory there is no such thing as sin because if you don't believe homosexuality is a sin, than neither should any other sin such as adultery, murder, idolatry or anything else. You're very similar to the 17th century Ranters who had much of the same reasoning as you.
pathoftruth1 2 years ago
Quakerism I believe is the Next progressive step from Religion. Its like it evolved from Religion into real Enlightment. It is really you could say who we are. You go beyond that stupidity of silly quarrels of who is right and who is wrong in their beliefs etc etc.
Colin24Astonwood 2 years ago
Few traditions can be so progressive; and few can boast a leading and pioneering role in civil, human, and animal rights. Amnesty, Birkbeck College has, like Barclays and Lloyds, Quaker founders. Tom Paine, who wrote the 'Rights of Man', had a Quaker father .How this tradition can be unknown is shameful & the Middle Class Migrants have a lot to live up to...
Researcher122 2 years ago
It is important to realize how much WASP culture itself is deeply influenced by Quaker ideology. WASPs are very comfortable with Quaker ideas as a result.
TheBadBandana 3 years ago
What is your definition of "WASPs" and why do you use such a term, which is widely considered to be racist?
stampguy01 2 years ago
My definition of WASP is the usual, White Anglo Saxon Protestant. It's no more "racist" that your description of yourself as "Asian". You call yourself a Quaker, but I don't see any of the familiar traits in you. You are too busy accusing others and insisting that your specific view of the Christ is the only correct one to be listening much for the leadings of the Spirit.
TheBadBandana 2 years ago
That was a very judgemental comment by someone who was codemning someone else for supposedly being judgemental.
pathoftruth1 2 years ago
i know lots of black Quakers, of course i'm not in the UK...
EA4RadioBig 3 years ago 2
If you go in any christian church in the UK and take a poll of the congregation, I reckon that in most of them (not all granted) you will find that the maority i midle class and white. Of course there are exceptions. I ust don't think you can single out Quakerism for this charge.
Also Quakerism is very much for the thinking person. I don't want to sound nasty, but this is a very much a middle class trait in the UK.
redmilkcrate 3 years ago 2
I'm mixed race and i'm an english quaker, so is my elder brother, he goes to Friends school saffron walden. I attend fsse summer school every year and of 80 of us normally around 5 or 6 are coloured. However my mother is your average middle class white-english Quaker so it's a differnt circumstance, does that make me half a white middle class quaker? lol
nellynana7 3 years ago
I'm not a Quaker but I am going to my first meeting this weekend.
I don't think Quakerism is necessarily the 'last refuge of Christian refugees' I was an atheist until very recently and find the Quaker outlook on God and religion in general very refreshing
Bronzewhaler82 4 years ago
I have huge respect for Quakers but never really understood their apparent reluctance to let others know what they believe (it is only an impression I have). In a very unscientific exercise I looked up "Quakers" on Youtube and only got 338 hits - mostly about parrots and American sport! These Watford videos are very welcome -- thank you.
Chaffinch4 4 years ago
I'm a Quaker and I can understand what you're saying about the Quaker reluctance to share their beliefs, but as a Quaker I find it near to impossible to explain my beliefs to friends outside Quakerism. I, personally, wouldn't say Quakers are reluctant to share their beliefs, but that a lot of Quakers find it hard to put their beliefs into words which non Quakers, who don't attend meetings, would understand. There's a feeling amongst a Quaker meeting which I find hard to put into words.
chrisunderscorealton 3 years ago
hey chris, :)
search 'quaker' too?
lol
nellynana7 3 years ago
Certainly did, haha.
I just wondered what was going to pop up.
chrisunderscorealton 3 years ago
My friend is a Jewish Quaker, and Kenya has the highest rate of Quakers 130,000. So i think they have appeal, I just don't think they have much exposure or even understanding. Some people don't even know Quakers & Religious Society of Friends are the same group different names. I asked my friend (I being of Dharma faith) on if Quakers do missionary work, she said she is not sure, but her friends and group do not and respect others belief as being personal.
DevaAsura 4 years ago
Have to agree, I agree with the ideas of Quakerism...I am a white, middle-class, American female...former Protestant. Perhaps, a current refugee? But, I think the real reason people of other races/backgrounds/other may not be drawn into Quakerism, is simply because they do not know what Quakerism is actually about...
abodenberg 4 years ago