@numberourdays I think the problem lies in that those who teach end time error have listened to others teaching error thinking they are right. Their Scripture usage is superficial and betrays an insufficient knowledge of the Word of God. The system that is built up around the pre-trib doctrine is full of hermetical and exegetical holes and therefore cannot hold any water.
@RobertMOdell Not many. I guess that's because I found out after being on YT a while that to debate with pre-tribbers is mostly fruitless. I know what it means to be an avid pre-tribber - I was one myself in my youth until the Lord quietly told me I was mistaken.
Yes, brother...you present it in such a simple way, I never would have thought to present the way you did. I have a study Bible in which the fellow who wrote the notes had Jesus coming in 3 to 4 stages...now how do they come up with that ? [scratching my head]
@MrRunningwolfe Having read many study Bibles and multiple publications about books in the Bible (some more helpful than others) I have come to the conclusion that the best Bible study guide you can ever have is the One who authored the Bible. Pray for light as you read! :) You will find yourself reminded of other verses etc which illuminate what you are reading. The picture the Bible paints (of any topic) will become clearer and clearer the more you study with the help of the Divine Helper.
@arovir ...Yes, I must agree. When it comes to post-trib teachings, I was never taught it. The Church I was brought up in, taught pre-trib. I found out after reading the Bible, that something wasn't quite right. I felt like I was lied to, Because the Church I was brought up in, claimed they had the truth...but all the scriptures I discoverd, did not back up pre-trib. It's there, written in the Bible that there is no pre-trib. But most won't really read it. They let others interpit it for them.
Go to Egypt and ask the Coptic Christians who is Christ's, and who is Satan's in these last days, and their answer will be certain. Islam is the Beast, and it's spreading faster than you think.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Excellent presentation. You had a few points I had not seen in my own studies. Thank you for pointing them out, it just gives me more proofs to add to my own writings.
@conniemaew Glad we concur in our study of the Word. The time is short, and we must be aware that the book of Revelation may very well be portraying Christians who are alive today in the passages concerning the end time tribulation. God bless your further studies and preparation for what is to come.
Excellent dividing of scripture as usual brother. I wish we could find pictures of Yeshua (Jesus) depicting him more accurately with short hair and not unusually handsome, unfortunately, almost all the "good" artwork depicting Jesus does so showing him to be white, blue eyed with long hair.
@RobertMOdell ...I have the same problem...I end having to settle for what there is that is out there...but I so desire for a correct painting of Jesus with shorter hair...cause He wasn't a Nazir, as some tend to think He was.
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, "If you continue in my Word, then are you my disciples indeed; And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:31-32)
Shalom... Do not fear: great peace to your hearts that surpasses all understanding... to all that read with understanding... again, well done brother.
@AgapeTouch Thank you yet again! I made this video because traditional dispensationalists have coined the term "tribulation saints" and made them separate from the church of today. Nothing could be further from the truth. In the same way they have coined the term "the Rapture" to separate it from the second coming of Christ. Nowhere is this term used as a noun in Scripture; it derives from a verb in the Latin translation and concerns what will happen to the saints at the second coming of Christ.
@arovir "...they have coined the term "the Rapture" to separate it from the second coming of Christ. Nowhere is this term used as a noun in Scripture; it derives from a verb in the Latin translation and concerns what will happen to the saints at the second coming of Christ" - what a great point! It's a VERB! How sneaky the deceiver is to try to make it a separate event (noun) when it is merely something that *happens at* the 2nd coming.
note how rigid literalists will not allow for the use of synonyms! so the word church is not mentioned between rev 3 and 22. so what? you sir have already pointed out its synonyms, ie "brethren".
their exegesis of this, justifying pre trib rapture is sloppy indeed
so, to answer the question in the title of this vid in a nutshell: who are the tribulation saints?
@Strefanasha Isn't it strange that some people talk of "tribulation saints" as if this term is foreign to believers living today? The whole New Testament speaks of believers as being "saints"; Jesus and the apostles said those who are believers must expect to suffer tribulation from His ascension all the way to His second coming. What's special about the last years before Jesus returns is the scope of tribulation for the saints; it will be great.
I was taught that the letters to the 7 churches was a prophetic overview of church history from the ascension to the [pre trib] rapture. I now reject this outright, in part as it is self flattery to think the church of the reformation or the church of now were those approved of in those letters. I now suspect that chap 3 is a letter to the types of churches that will co exist until the post trib rapture.
@Strefanasha Yes, I too believe the 7 churches portray conditions in local churches that have coexisted the last 2000 years. They were originally 7 local churches in Asia Minor that John was told to write to, yet the conditions these 7 churches were in are with us even today. Church leaders face the same challenges, and are given the same exhortations by Christ. Notice the text says that what the Spirit promises to the 7 churches applies to all the other churches as well - then and now.
@Strefanasha I have found that post trib does no violence to Scripture at all; there is complete harmony. The pre trib theory is the one that violates Scripture. It fabricates another coming of Christ prior to the real one. It fabricates another resurrection of the dead in Christ prior to the real one. It forces Scripture into it's mold, mangles verses, changes the meaning of words, and turns the eschatology of Christ and the apostles on it's head!
Also, the dead in Christ are those who died unsaved. Who never heard the gospel. There is scripture on this. Your conclusion is not correct. If we come back with Christ at the 2nd coming, how are we going to be rapture just before that happens - have the Lamb's supper in 5 minutes and come back with the Lord? Many will fall away in the tribulation and take the mark of the beast. Your theory and conclusions have holes in it sir.
@MamasitaDeVegas The dead in Christ are NOT those who died unsaved! Your Bible tells you they are believers in Christ who have died. They will come with Christ from heaven at His 2nd coming.
The rapture is the catching up of the glorified living believers together with the resurrected dead in Christ at the 2nd coming. After the meeting in the clouds above Israel the believers will accompany Christ in His descent to earth & after the defeat of Antichrist have the Lamb's supper on earth.
@arovir No sir. Your interpretation is wrong. 1 Peter 3:18 -20 alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[b] in the days of Noah. After death on the cross Jesus descended into hell. He ministered & preached the gospel to all who never heard it. When He ressurected they went up with Him. So it will be again "the dead in Christ." 1 Peter 4:5-6 Judge the "living & the dead"
@MamasitaDeVegas Those in 1 Pet 3,19-20 are those who perished in the flood in the days of Noah. The text does NOT say they went up to heaven after Christ's resurrection! The "dead in Christ" who rise at Christ's coming in 1 Thess 4,16 are those who are "made alive" in 1 Cor 15,22 - "those who are Christ’s at His coming" v.23. They are not unsaved dead. Compare the phrase "dead in Christ" to what's in Rev 14,13: "Blessed are the dead who DIE IN THE LORD from now on!" These are not unsaved dead.
@arovir Those who die in Christ go "immediately" to be with the Lord. Absent from the body, present with the Lord. They are already in heaven. So tell me. How are they going to rise from the dead TWICE? The ressurected dead are the unsaved. The bride will be coming back with the Christ at His 2d coming. They can't do that if they are raptured in your conclusion. Air conditioned holes.
@MamasitaDeVegas What Bible are you reading?! Those in heaven with Christ now are there in spirit form. They await their bodily resurrection at the return of Christ. I showed you from Scripture the dead in Christ who will rise at His coming are those who belong to Christ (1st resurrection). According to Rev 20 the rest of the dead will be resurrected and judged 1000 years after Christ comes (2nd resurrection). You err because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God. Sound familiar?
@ReconciledSinner - I cannot see how I have taken Phil 4.3 out of context. Surely Paul is not saying that only the few people he mentioned in this verse have their names in the book of life!? He must mean all those who belong to Christ. This goes to show that the saints in Rev 13 who have their names in the book of life are no different than those Paul referred to.
@ReconciledSinner - Not only Jewish believers have their names in the book of life. Gentile believers are written there too. Those many call "tribulation saints" are made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers. This is illustrated in Rev 7 where a numbered group of believers from the people of Israel are portrayed (144,000) and then a unnumbered group of believers from the rest of the nations are seen to have been in the great tribulation and endured the hardship of that time.
arovir Rev 2'22 is speaking to the Church of Thyatira, however a great tribulation is coming in our time, what's your take on the verses of scripture I posted?
@sprinkle888 - In the message to the church in Thyatira Jesus is warning his people not to follow the false prophetess who was luring them into sexual immorality. He calls those who are involved with her to repent. As I see it, If they didn't repent they would experience great *personal* tribulation (pressure, affliction, trouble) and death, v.23. The video that starts running on your channel illustrates this kind of tribulation. It's also indicative of great end-time world-wide tribulation.
arovir bless you for this powerful study of the "Tribulation Saints." I have been posting: Revelation chapter 2'20'21'22 - Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast HER into a bed, andTHEM that commit adultery with her into GREAT TRIBULATION,, EXCEPT THEY REPENT OF THEIR DEEDS deeds.
The (Key Word) Except they repent... Meaning if they repented they will not go through the great tribulation.
Thanks Arovir, I was reading Daniel 12:1"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of THY people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time THY people shall be delivered" many say THY people refers to only Israel, BUT reading on however(as you should), it says; “every one that shall be found written in the book”. (book of life) the one and only!! p.s thanks for Acts...
@tredezbull - And Dan 12:2 says: "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life..." These must be the dead in Christ (1 Thess 4:16) who rise in the first resurrection (Rev 20:5) after the tribulation. No-one can say only Jewish believers are spoken of here!! Thanks for your input. :)
Another excellent video arovir, however, how do you go about the debate of: The tribulation is only for Israel because of Daniels 70th week prophecy because they say first 69 weeks dealt Israel only therefore.......
@tredezbull :) God has dealt with Israel in the gap between the 69th and 70th week. Dan 9,26 tells of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70 about 40 years into the gap. God scattered the Jews but is now gathering them back to the land as He promised. If God can deal with both the church and the Jews before the 70th week begins surely He can deal with both after it begins. The last years before Jesus returns will not only be a time of trib for Israel but also the church Acts 14,22.
Very good video. Well done on all your references. I hadn't looked into John's use of "brethern" in the book of Revelation. One that you didn't mention but I think is significant is John's description of the Churches as candlesticks as well as the two witnesses.
In early 2009, I was given the following message from God: "The Alien/UFO phenomenon will be used to explain the rapture to non-believers." Check out my channel and blog for more details. God bless you all.
Another excellent video. I am going through them one by one and agreeing as I go along. :) Once I started to open up more and examine a post tribulation view point, I stumbled upon the Bozrah Prophecy. Have you studied it at all? I would definitely watch a video if you made one on the subject. God Bless, Michelle
@012Tilly - I'm glad you concur! Yes, I have studied the Bozrah Prophecy - an exciting one! At the moment I have a long line of planned videos I intend to make, but it's not totally impossible that I would make one about this prophecy some time. We'll see! God bless you too, Michelle, and thank you for your encouragement.
What is Gods purpose for Israel during the tribulation. My only objection to your teaching is that you claim a Pre-Trib position is evil. I urge you to look into the Hebrew roots of the Feasts of the LORD, Feast of Trumpets (Yom Teruah) and the Jewish wedding system all point to a sudden event we cannot time.
Nice job with the vids although I disagree. We are very busy getting the word out about what Christ did on the cross regardless of Tribulation. Shalom
@Amos37dotCom - God's purpose for Israel during the tribulation is to prepare her to receive her Messiah when He returns.
I have not said the pre-trib position is "evil". It is a mistaken position (I adhered to it for many years). The deception it produces is an unprepared church in the endtime that will be ill-equipped to face world-wide tribulation.
I am well aware of the prophetic Feast of Trumpets pointing to a sudden coming of Christ post trib on a day only the Father knows.
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Revelation 5:9 Sounds like the Church is present in heaven before the seals are opened.
The rest of the saints are redeemed after the tribulation ie... Thyatira, Sardis, Laodecia. Those churches will go into the tribulation.
@Amos37dotCom - Have you noticed in Rev 6:9-11 there are people in heaven who say things. It's obvious they came to heaven through death. Concerning those in Rev 5:9, we don't have to assume they will be raptured while still alive just because they are in heaven and say things.
Yes, the redemption of the saints occurs after the tribulation, the churches will go into the trib. Yet all seven are present though suffer in varying degrees. Even the one that will be kept (Filadelfia) will persevere.
1st Thessalonians 5:3-4 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. "But ye brethren are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a theif". Paul's careful alternation of the pro nouns "they" and "ye" throughout this passage is quit sufficient to show that he never conceived of the Church, the body of Christ, as remaining on earth during the time of wrath in the day of the Lord.
Paul's careful alternation here shows that the Day of the Lord will be experienced in two different ways by those who are "they" - the world in darkness, and "ye" - the children of the light. For the world the Day will come as a surprise (like a thief). For true saints it will NOT come as a thief, Paul says. Peace and safety will be desired as in Jer 6:14, 8:11, but then comes the Day with wrath and destruction. My video 'The Day of the Lord...' shows that it comes after the great tribulation!
I think that the most basic argument for this view which is mine also that the rapture is after the tribulation is in Mathew 24 which clearly says we go whit Jesus after the tribulation
Yes, the basis of our view is Christ's elect being gathered by the angels after the tribulation according to Matthew 24. It's strange, isn't it, that pretribbers try to explain this gathering by saying they are some other group - Jewish or Tribulation saints or whatever. Several times in the letters of the NT we believers are called the elect.
When Jesus returns, an army follows Him. The army's members are riding on white horses, and they are clothed in fine linen that is white and clean. In Revelation 19:14, we are told that the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. If the saints of God are returning with Christ to wage war on the Antichrist, then it is not possible to have a post-trib rapture without us running into ourselves as we are coming and going.
In Matt 25:31 Jesus said When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him..." The angels are holy warriors: cf. "twelve legions of angels" Matt 26:53. They fight, Rev 12:7. Rev 15:6 tells how they are clothed: "angels... clothed in pure bright linen". Everything points to the armies being comprised of angels. The saints will be dressed likewise because "in the resurrection they... are like angels of God in heaven" Matt 22:30. saints = bride, armies = angels No collision!
I don't know. I'm right with Jesus, because I know I'm a horrible sinner and he is an awsome savior. All the rest are details. But i gotta say I've heard alot of both sides and thanks to you i dont know what to believe. : )). lol. Trib or no trib its about winning souls to Christ and turn from their sins.
I agree, the main thing is winning souls for eternity!
I grew up an avid pre-tribber; had all the arguments lined up. At 22 years of age I was exposed to the post-trib position. I couldn't refute what was presented from Matt 24, but I did not embrace it. I didn't want to! Five years later armed with more pre-trib arguments the Lord gently spoke to me and said I was wrong! What you see in all my videos is what the Lord subsequently showed me these last two decades. Seek and you will find truth!
They seem to be the offspring of illegal mating between fallen angels and ungodly women. I have no plans of making a video on this subject, but you can check out Genesis 6:1-4 and watch bluetru40 "The Nephilim" as an introduction to the subject.
Thank you. We, who believe the Word of God rather than the doctrines of men, are a minority. We will need to be ready to minister to those who suddenly discover that they were deceived. I'm sure you will receive a lot of opposition, but don't lose heart -- the Lord had revealed the truth of His Word to you. God bless you!
Excellent teaching of the Scriptures brother! Another argument I hear is "we are not appointed to wrath". Which is true, but I believe the wrath comes after the great tribulation. Also, if those who believe in pre-trib who usually use the wrath comment above; are not those who become Believers during the tribulation going to suffer wrath if His wrath is poured out during the tribulation?
We are to watch, not love our lives to the death, and stay on His narrow path of Faith, Hope, and Love!
Yes, brother, we must stay on the right track. I am in the process of preparing my next video which will be about, you guessed it... wrath in the end time. As you point out so well, using that verse to prove a pre trib journey to heaven falls flat on its face.
The 2 witnesses also called prophets v10, prophesy 1260 days clothed in sackcloth. Their enemies are killed by fire. They cause no rain to fall, turn water to blood, strike the earth with all plagues, and are killed. Their dead bodies lie in Jerusalem "where also our Lord was crucified" v.8. After 3 1/2 days they are resurrected and taken to heaven. I don't mind your interpretation but for me it's difficult to fit the church in all this. Just because they are called candlesticks doesn't. Cont.
...mean they have to be churches. Concerning the stars in Rev 1:20, do we have to say every time we read of stars in Rev they must mean angels? What about Rev 2:28? Will Christ give overcomers the morning... angel? The 2 witnesses are also called "olive trees". Cf. Zech 4:3. The immediate context explains that the "two olive trees" here refer to Joshua the high priest 3:8 and Zerubbabel the governor 4:7. This helps us to understand that the two endtime witnesses/prophets will be two individuals.
again very Powerful Writing avoir.Ive had hard time with 2 olive trees.
2 questions. Zech 2:7 whats it saying israel gods good ones escape from a city refered to as daughter babylon .?Meaning judah or another israel city? and 2nd isnt there soem kind verse people use say its elija coming before jesus or something as one olvie trees. But what you presented seems the answer to me. Just curious
Zech 2:7: Historically - speaking of the remnant of Jewish exiles in Babylon told to escape because of the coming fall of city to the Persians. Prophetically - God's people in end time Babylon told to get out before its destruction cf. Rev 18:2 & 4.
"Elijah" is mentioned in Mal 4:5 coming before Jesus returns. He will be a prophet in the power of Elijah. Seems to be one of the 2 prophets in Rev 11 since he performs signs similar to Elijah (Rev. 11:5 / 2 Kings 1:10; Rev. 11:6 / 1 Kings 17:1).
I do not believe that Joshua and Zerubbabel are the two prophets of Rev 11. They are historical figures. We must understand that some prophecies in OT have layers of fulfillment, like I mentioned about Zech 2:7 - a near fulfillment and a fulfillment a long time in the future. One of the two prophets in Rev 11 may even be Elijah himself since he was taken to heaven in a chariot without dying. He could be sent back to prophesy for 3 1/2 years and then be killed.
I wanted to make seperate post here Arovir. Your videos are very good.And you a unique and blessed way sharing things.Very on the mark. And you present it well. and Seems good lord has given you a gift.We need work together. For the truth always.More videos be much needed from you.
The Church is one of the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation 11. Shalom
Revelation 1:20 "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven CANDLESTICKs which thou sawest ARE the seven CHURCHes."
Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses...These are the two olive trees, and the two CANDLESTICKs standing before the God of the earth."
An interesting view but Jesus was the first fruit as is the church age which ends at the rapture. The saints of the tribulation are a different part of the body of beleivers coming to faith outside of the church age. We are not to go through the tribulation- if you study the jewish wedding model you would understand that the agenda for the bride does not involve the church being in wrath
I concur that the so-called "church age" ends at the rapture, which happens at the coming of Christ, which happens after the tribulation. As the book of Revelation shows the bride of Christ is comprised of the saints, all of them. Wherever the term 'saints' appears in the book they refer to the bride. We break the internal evidence of the book if we divide them up. in addition, the book makes a distinction between tribulation and wrath. The saints go thru tribulation, but are exempt from wrath.
Rev. appears to be written in typical prophetic fashion à la the OT i.e. recurring themes. The unbelievers see Christ coming in 6:16! The 2 prophets 11:10 are killed by the beast 11:7 two chapters before even the beast arises 13:1. At the 7th trumpet Christ takes over the world 11:15 eight chapters before He comes in 19:11. So yes, Rev 14 is "out of order" in our thinking, but this is perfectly in line with e.g Daniel's 5 prophecies of end time - all finish at the same point - the Kingdom come.
So help me here.Rev 14 is just a contiunace of Rev 11. and or 19.Or just add to story after his return correct?11 having little information just prior. then kind of outline?
Rev 14:1 seems to reflect Is 24:23 (Mount Zion) where Christ comes to earth after the cosmic signs, after the trib described earlier in the chapter. Rev 11 describes the 2 witnesses in the last 3 1/2 years ending with the last trumpet when Christ returns to reign. Rev 12 describes the woman in the same 3 1/2 years. Rev 13 describes the 2 beasts in the same 3 1/2 years. Rev 14 continues with return v.1 and covers topics leading up to Christ's return v.14 cf.19:15 (winepress). Hope this helps!
Yes, God is good! Would you believe that I was a convinced pre-tribber until I was 27 years old? And that I almost got a book published defending the pre-trib teaching?
5*s! Excellent teaching! Me must endure to the end! Worship God!
James1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations:3 Knowing, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.4 But let patience have perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
1Pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
I appreciate very much your rating and comment! You know, Peter continued to write: "...may the God of all grace who has called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, AFTER you have SUFFERED A WHILE, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you" 1 Pet 5:10. Paul wrote that the saints "who are troubled" will receive "rest with us WHEN the Lord Jesus is REVEALED FROM HEAVEN with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God..." 1 Thess1:7. Clearly post-trib!
Yes, thanks for the correction, well spotted! I put it there to test you! .... ...Well, not really :o) ... .....I'll blame the error on the time- it's in the middle of the night here.
The prospect of meeting Jesus will get us thru the trib rejoicing even in the face of persecution. May we be like the apostles who after being flogged rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His sake. Acts 5:41 - this reference is correct - double checked :o)
Yes, I suppose you can if you are able :o) At the gathering of the elect it's going to be very crowded, so there will be little chance of falling prostrate! You know, we can have a foretaste of the joy we will experience "at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with JOY inexpressible and full of glory" 1 Pet 1:7-8. J = Jesus first. O = Others next. Y = Yourself last.
There are those who teach the church will be gone and Israel will be the focus during the tribulation. You are right that is unbiblical. What is biblical is there will be a rapture, but even after the rapture the gospel will cause the church to form again continue, and evangelismof the gospel of rgace is still the focus during the tribulation. If you have any sort of intimacy with God, you ought to ask Him specifically about these things, being open-minded toward Him.
Thank you for your comment. Yes, the the gospel of grace is still the focus during the tribulation. Indeed I have sought the Lord many times asking specifically about the things you mention being open-minded toward Him. What I have come to see concerning the rapture question is laid out in four other videos of mine - the ones with the word Rapture in the title.
I am with you. How can pre tribbers be so ridiculously blind? The truth is everywhere in the Bible!
numberourdays 1 week ago
@numberourdays I think the problem lies in that those who teach end time error have listened to others teaching error thinking they are right. Their Scripture usage is superficial and betrays an insufficient knowledge of the Word of God. The system that is built up around the pre-trib doctrine is full of hermetical and exegetical holes and therefore cannot hold any water.
arovir 1 week ago
Have you experience pre-tribbers blocking you like I have?
RobertMOdell 1 week ago
@RobertMOdell Not many. I guess that's because I found out after being on YT a while that to debate with pre-tribbers is mostly fruitless. I know what it means to be an avid pre-tribber - I was one myself in my youth until the Lord quietly told me I was mistaken.
arovir 1 week ago
Yes, brother...you present it in such a simple way, I never would have thought to present the way you did. I have a study Bible in which the fellow who wrote the notes had Jesus coming in 3 to 4 stages...now how do they come up with that ? [scratching my head]
MrRunningwolfe 1 week ago
@MrRunningwolfe Having read many study Bibles and multiple publications about books in the Bible (some more helpful than others) I have come to the conclusion that the best Bible study guide you can ever have is the One who authored the Bible. Pray for light as you read! :) You will find yourself reminded of other verses etc which illuminate what you are reading. The picture the Bible paints (of any topic) will become clearer and clearer the more you study with the help of the Divine Helper.
arovir 1 week ago
@arovir ...Yes, I must agree. When it comes to post-trib teachings, I was never taught it. The Church I was brought up in, taught pre-trib. I found out after reading the Bible, that something wasn't quite right. I felt like I was lied to, Because the Church I was brought up in, claimed they had the truth...but all the scriptures I discoverd, did not back up pre-trib. It's there, written in the Bible that there is no pre-trib. But most won't really read it. They let others interpit it for them.
MrRunningwolfe 1 week ago
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
o0lBobl0o 1 week ago
Go to Egypt and ask the Coptic Christians who is Christ's, and who is Satan's in these last days, and their answer will be certain. Islam is the Beast, and it's spreading faster than you think.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
o0lBobl0o 1 week ago
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We now have the little book of revelation prophesised at Rev 5.10.11v15
7th angel @revlittlebook2012.blogspot.com
short is the time of tribulation for those already suffering it.
halflandseaangel 1 week ago
Excellent presentation. You had a few points I had not seen in my own studies. Thank you for pointing them out, it just gives me more proofs to add to my own writings.
conniemaew 2 weeks ago
@conniemaew Glad we concur in our study of the Word. The time is short, and we must be aware that the book of Revelation may very well be portraying Christians who are alive today in the passages concerning the end time tribulation. God bless your further studies and preparation for what is to come.
arovir 1 week ago
Who do you think? Us who are alive at the end. We are the witnesses to the lost that is to be preached till the end.
sweet161402 2 weeks ago
Well said...Amen !
MrRunningwolfe 3 weeks ago
Excellent dividing of scripture as usual brother. I wish we could find pictures of Yeshua (Jesus) depicting him more accurately with short hair and not unusually handsome, unfortunately, almost all the "good" artwork depicting Jesus does so showing him to be white, blue eyed with long hair.
RobertMOdell 3 weeks ago
@RobertMOdell Thank you for your support. Yes, finding suitable pictures of Yeshua is not an easy job!
arovir 3 weeks ago
@RobertMOdell ...I have the same problem...I end having to settle for what there is that is out there...but I so desire for a correct painting of Jesus with shorter hair...cause He wasn't a Nazir, as some tend to think He was.
MrRunningwolfe 3 weeks ago
Again... excellent dividing of the Word of Truth.
As our Messiah said:
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, "If you continue in my Word, then are you my disciples indeed; And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:31-32)
Shalom... Do not fear: great peace to your hearts that surpasses all understanding... to all that read with understanding... again, well done brother.
AgapeTouch 3 weeks ago
@AgapeTouch Thank you yet again! I made this video because traditional dispensationalists have coined the term "tribulation saints" and made them separate from the church of today. Nothing could be further from the truth. In the same way they have coined the term "the Rapture" to separate it from the second coming of Christ. Nowhere is this term used as a noun in Scripture; it derives from a verb in the Latin translation and concerns what will happen to the saints at the second coming of Christ.
arovir 3 weeks ago
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@arovir "...they have coined the term "the Rapture" to separate it from the second coming of Christ. Nowhere is this term used as a noun in Scripture; it derives from a verb in the Latin translation and concerns what will happen to the saints at the second coming of Christ" - what a great point! It's a VERB! How sneaky the deceiver is to try to make it a separate event (noun) when it is merely something that *happens at* the 2nd coming.
Jimvesterstallone 3 weeks ago
note how rigid literalists will not allow for the use of synonyms! so the word church is not mentioned between rev 3 and 22. so what? you sir have already pointed out its synonyms, ie "brethren".
their exegesis of this, justifying pre trib rapture is sloppy indeed
so, to answer the question in the title of this vid in a nutshell: who are the tribulation saints?
if the trib comes in our lifetime
THEY WILL BE US
Strefanasha 2 months ago
@Strefanasha Isn't it strange that some people talk of "tribulation saints" as if this term is foreign to believers living today? The whole New Testament speaks of believers as being "saints"; Jesus and the apostles said those who are believers must expect to suffer tribulation from His ascension all the way to His second coming. What's special about the last years before Jesus returns is the scope of tribulation for the saints; it will be great.
Thanks for your comment! :)
arovir 2 months ago
@arovir The TRIBULATION SAINTS... They're us. We're them. Blessings!
RobertMOdell 3 weeks ago
I was taught that the letters to the 7 churches was a prophetic overview of church history from the ascension to the [pre trib] rapture. I now reject this outright, in part as it is self flattery to think the church of the reformation or the church of now were those approved of in those letters. I now suspect that chap 3 is a letter to the types of churches that will co exist until the post trib rapture.
Strefanasha 2 months ago
@Strefanasha Yes, I too believe the 7 churches portray conditions in local churches that have coexisted the last 2000 years. They were originally 7 local churches in Asia Minor that John was told to write to, yet the conditions these 7 churches were in are with us even today. Church leaders face the same challenges, and are given the same exhortations by Christ. Notice the text says that what the Spirit promises to the 7 churches applies to all the other churches as well - then and now.
arovir 2 months ago
@arovir very interesting. i only came to the idea that the 7 churches were 7 types of the church conditions throughout history very recently.
some can argue that both pre and post trib theory have scriptural support, even if only on the face of it
so the question might be which position does more violence to scripture?
definitely pre trib IMO
Strefanasha 2 months ago
@Strefanasha I have found that post trib does no violence to Scripture at all; there is complete harmony. The pre trib theory is the one that violates Scripture. It fabricates another coming of Christ prior to the real one. It fabricates another resurrection of the dead in Christ prior to the real one. It forces Scripture into it's mold, mangles verses, changes the meaning of words, and turns the eschatology of Christ and the apostles on it's head!
Blessings to you! :)
arovir 2 months ago
Also, the dead in Christ are those who died unsaved. Who never heard the gospel. There is scripture on this. Your conclusion is not correct. If we come back with Christ at the 2nd coming, how are we going to be rapture just before that happens - have the Lamb's supper in 5 minutes and come back with the Lord? Many will fall away in the tribulation and take the mark of the beast. Your theory and conclusions have holes in it sir.
MamasitaDeVegas 4 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas The dead in Christ are NOT those who died unsaved! Your Bible tells you they are believers in Christ who have died. They will come with Christ from heaven at His 2nd coming.
The rapture is the catching up of the glorified living believers together with the resurrected dead in Christ at the 2nd coming. After the meeting in the clouds above Israel the believers will accompany Christ in His descent to earth & after the defeat of Antichrist have the Lamb's supper on earth.
No holes!
arovir 4 months ago
@arovir No sir. Your interpretation is wrong. 1 Peter 3:18 -20 alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[b] in the days of Noah. After death on the cross Jesus descended into hell. He ministered & preached the gospel to all who never heard it. When He ressurected they went up with Him. So it will be again "the dead in Christ." 1 Peter 4:5-6 Judge the "living & the dead"
MamasitaDeVegas 4 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas Those in 1 Pet 3,19-20 are those who perished in the flood in the days of Noah. The text does NOT say they went up to heaven after Christ's resurrection! The "dead in Christ" who rise at Christ's coming in 1 Thess 4,16 are those who are "made alive" in 1 Cor 15,22 - "those who are Christ’s at His coming" v.23. They are not unsaved dead. Compare the phrase "dead in Christ" to what's in Rev 14,13: "Blessed are the dead who DIE IN THE LORD from now on!" These are not unsaved dead.
arovir 4 months ago
@arovir Those who die in Christ go "immediately" to be with the Lord. Absent from the body, present with the Lord. They are already in heaven. So tell me. How are they going to rise from the dead TWICE? The ressurected dead are the unsaved. The bride will be coming back with the Christ at His 2d coming. They can't do that if they are raptured in your conclusion. Air conditioned holes.
MamasitaDeVegas 4 months ago
@MamasitaDeVegas What Bible are you reading?! Those in heaven with Christ now are there in spirit form. They await their bodily resurrection at the return of Christ. I showed you from Scripture the dead in Christ who will rise at His coming are those who belong to Christ (1st resurrection). According to Rev 20 the rest of the dead will be resurrected and judged 1000 years after Christ comes (2nd resurrection). You err because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God. Sound familiar?
arovir 4 months ago
Nice taking Philippians 4:3 out of context.
ReconciledSinner 9 months ago
@ReconciledSinner - I cannot see how I have taken Phil 4.3 out of context. Surely Paul is not saying that only the few people he mentioned in this verse have their names in the book of life!? He must mean all those who belong to Christ. This goes to show that the saints in Rev 13 who have their names in the book of life are no different than those Paul referred to.
arovir 9 months ago
@arovir Post tribulation rapture view comes from not rightly dividing.
There is a difference between Orthodox Jews, The Church (Pre tribulation saints), and the Post Tribulation Saints (Jews).
ReconciledSinner 9 months ago
Whoops, that should be Tribulation Saints (Jews).
ReconciledSinner 9 months ago
@ReconciledSinner - Not only Jewish believers have their names in the book of life. Gentile believers are written there too. Those many call "tribulation saints" are made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers. This is illustrated in Rev 7 where a numbered group of believers from the people of Israel are portrayed (144,000) and then a unnumbered group of believers from the rest of the nations are seen to have been in the great tribulation and endured the hardship of that time.
arovir 9 months ago
arovir Rev 2'22 is speaking to the Church of Thyatira, however a great tribulation is coming in our time, what's your take on the verses of scripture I posted?
sprinkle888 10 months ago
@sprinkle888 - In the message to the church in Thyatira Jesus is warning his people not to follow the false prophetess who was luring them into sexual immorality. He calls those who are involved with her to repent. As I see it, If they didn't repent they would experience great *personal* tribulation (pressure, affliction, trouble) and death, v.23. The video that starts running on your channel illustrates this kind of tribulation. It's also indicative of great end-time world-wide tribulation.
arovir 10 months ago
@sprinkle888 Thanks for responding to my comment regarding Revelation 2.
sprinkle888 10 months ago
arovir bless you for this powerful study of the "Tribulation Saints." I have been posting: Revelation chapter 2'20'21'22 - Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast HER into a bed, andTHEM that commit adultery with her into GREAT TRIBULATION,, EXCEPT THEY REPENT OF THEIR DEEDS deeds.
The (Key Word) Except they repent... Meaning if they repented they will not go through the great tribulation.
sprinkle888 10 months ago
Thanks Arovir, I was reading Daniel 12:1"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of THY people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time THY people shall be delivered" many say THY people refers to only Israel, BUT reading on however(as you should), it says; “every one that shall be found written in the book”. (book of life) the one and only!! p.s thanks for Acts...
tredezbull 1 year ago
@tredezbull - And Dan 12:2 says: "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life..." These must be the dead in Christ (1 Thess 4:16) who rise in the first resurrection (Rev 20:5) after the tribulation. No-one can say only Jewish believers are spoken of here!! Thanks for your input. :)
arovir 1 year ago
Another excellent video arovir, however, how do you go about the debate of: The tribulation is only for Israel because of Daniels 70th week prophecy because they say first 69 weeks dealt Israel only therefore.......
tredezbull 1 year ago
@tredezbull :) God has dealt with Israel in the gap between the 69th and 70th week. Dan 9,26 tells of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70 about 40 years into the gap. God scattered the Jews but is now gathering them back to the land as He promised. If God can deal with both the church and the Jews before the 70th week begins surely He can deal with both after it begins. The last years before Jesus returns will not only be a time of trib for Israel but also the church Acts 14,22.
arovir 1 year ago
Very good video. Well done on all your references. I hadn't looked into John's use of "brethern" in the book of Revelation. One that you didn't mention but I think is significant is John's description of the Churches as candlesticks as well as the two witnesses.
God bless you in your work.
baqashchokmahelel 1 year ago
@baqashchokmahelel - Thank you for your encouragement. Much appreciated. God bless you too!
arovir 1 year ago
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In early 2009, I was given the following message from God: "The Alien/UFO phenomenon will be used to explain the rapture to non-believers." Check out my channel and blog for more details. God bless you all.
empireuniverse 1 year ago
Another excellent video. I am going through them one by one and agreeing as I go along. :) Once I started to open up more and examine a post tribulation view point, I stumbled upon the Bozrah Prophecy. Have you studied it at all? I would definitely watch a video if you made one on the subject. God Bless, Michelle
012Tilly 1 year ago
@012Tilly - I'm glad you concur! Yes, I have studied the Bozrah Prophecy - an exciting one! At the moment I have a long line of planned videos I intend to make, but it's not totally impossible that I would make one about this prophecy some time. We'll see! God bless you too, Michelle, and thank you for your encouragement.
arovir 1 year ago
@012Tilly
Arovir & Michelle,
Sorry to but in ( : But what is the Bozrah Prophecy? And where do I go to find this?
Rileyportbay 1 year ago
i believe post tribulation believers are gonna be the tribulation saints
just sayin
mikelmillion 1 year ago
What is Gods purpose for Israel during the tribulation. My only objection to your teaching is that you claim a Pre-Trib position is evil. I urge you to look into the Hebrew roots of the Feasts of the LORD, Feast of Trumpets (Yom Teruah) and the Jewish wedding system all point to a sudden event we cannot time.
Nice job with the vids although I disagree. We are very busy getting the word out about what Christ did on the cross regardless of Tribulation. Shalom
Amos37dotCom 1 year ago
@Amos37dotCom - God's purpose for Israel during the tribulation is to prepare her to receive her Messiah when He returns.
I have not said the pre-trib position is "evil". It is a mistaken position (I adhered to it for many years). The deception it produces is an unprepared church in the endtime that will be ill-equipped to face world-wide tribulation.
I am well aware of the prophetic Feast of Trumpets pointing to a sudden coming of Christ post trib on a day only the Father knows.
Shalom!
arovir 1 year ago
@arovir Thanks for your reply. Don't quite see it that way, but I look at everything since I know I don't know everything. In Christ, Keith
Amos37dotCom 1 year ago
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Revelation 5:9 Sounds like the Church is present in heaven before the seals are opened.
The rest of the saints are redeemed after the tribulation ie... Thyatira, Sardis, Laodecia. Those churches will go into the tribulation.
Amos37dotCom 1 year ago
@Amos37dotCom - Have you noticed in Rev 6:9-11 there are people in heaven who say things. It's obvious they came to heaven through death. Concerning those in Rev 5:9, we don't have to assume they will be raptured while still alive just because they are in heaven and say things.
Yes, the redemption of the saints occurs after the tribulation, the churches will go into the trib. Yet all seven are present though suffer in varying degrees. Even the one that will be kept (Filadelfia) will persevere.
arovir 1 year ago
REALLY GREAT VIDEO! I am sharing this with my friends on fb! Well done!
cac0017 1 year ago
@cac0017 - Thank you for your encouragement! God bless you.
arovir 1 year ago
Excellent video, Excellent teaching. God bless you brother
ALittleBrother 2 years ago 2
Thank you for your encouragement, and God bless you too brother!
arovir 2 years ago
1st Thessalonians 5:3-4 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. "But ye brethren are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a theif". Paul's careful alternation of the pro nouns "they" and "ye" throughout this passage is quit sufficient to show that he never conceived of the Church, the body of Christ, as remaining on earth during the time of wrath in the day of the Lord.
nicoheckens1 2 years ago
Paul's careful alternation here shows that the Day of the Lord will be experienced in two different ways by those who are "they" - the world in darkness, and "ye" - the children of the light. For the world the Day will come as a surprise (like a thief). For true saints it will NOT come as a thief, Paul says. Peace and safety will be desired as in Jer 6:14, 8:11, but then comes the Day with wrath and destruction. My video 'The Day of the Lord...' shows that it comes after the great tribulation!
arovir 2 years ago
also, be careful not to take away the redemption of yisra'EL. and the wilderness she is hidden in etc... peace
yirmeYAH7 2 years ago
I think that the most basic argument for this view which is mine also that the rapture is after the tribulation is in Mathew 24 which clearly says we go whit Jesus after the tribulation
marlonyo 2 years ago 3
Yes, the basis of our view is Christ's elect being gathered by the angels after the tribulation according to Matthew 24. It's strange, isn't it, that pretribbers try to explain this gathering by saying they are some other group - Jewish or Tribulation saints or whatever. Several times in the letters of the NT we believers are called the elect.
arovir 2 years ago
When Jesus returns, an army follows Him. The army's members are riding on white horses, and they are clothed in fine linen that is white and clean. In Revelation 19:14, we are told that the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. If the saints of God are returning with Christ to wage war on the Antichrist, then it is not possible to have a post-trib rapture without us running into ourselves as we are coming and going.
nicoheckens1 2 years ago
In Matt 25:31 Jesus said When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him..." The angels are holy warriors: cf. "twelve legions of angels" Matt 26:53. They fight, Rev 12:7. Rev 15:6 tells how they are clothed: "angels... clothed in pure bright linen". Everything points to the armies being comprised of angels. The saints will be dressed likewise because "in the resurrection they... are like angels of God in heaven" Matt 22:30. saints = bride, armies = angels No collision!
arovir 2 years ago
I don't know. I'm right with Jesus, because I know I'm a horrible sinner and he is an awsome savior. All the rest are details. But i gotta say I've heard alot of both sides and thanks to you i dont know what to believe. : )). lol. Trib or no trib its about winning souls to Christ and turn from their sins.
nicoheckens1 2 years ago
I agree, the main thing is winning souls for eternity!
I grew up an avid pre-tribber; had all the arguments lined up. At 22 years of age I was exposed to the post-trib position. I couldn't refute what was presented from Matt 24, but I did not embrace it. I didn't want to! Five years later armed with more pre-trib arguments the Lord gently spoke to me and said I was wrong! What you see in all my videos is what the Lord subsequently showed me these last two decades. Seek and you will find truth!
arovir 2 years ago
Whats your views on the nephilim? Maybe do you a video about it?
nicoheckens1 2 years ago
They seem to be the offspring of illegal mating between fallen angels and ungodly women. I have no plans of making a video on this subject, but you can check out Genesis 6:1-4 and watch bluetru40 "The Nephilim" as an introduction to the subject.
arovir 2 years ago
I agree, Matthew is very clear when he says 'immediately after the tribulation of those days'.
boltingpuppies 2 years ago 5
Just to be biblically correct ;)) it wasn't Matthew who said it ;)) lol! I told you you needed glasses, didn't I. ;))
Yah's richest blessings to you, my friend! :)
arovir 2 years ago
lol :) Yes, I know that...my sentence just isn't written well. I meant Matthew (the book) is very clear when Jesus says...
Thank you for clarifying though! and Yah bless you too :)
boltingpuppies 2 years ago 2
very good teaching !
It is hard to come against the "whole counsel of God" and the "Sum of Thy words"
555debonnaire555 2 years ago 2
Thank you for your kind comment. God bless!
arovir 2 years ago
Thanks! To God be the glory. It was only by His Spirit I was shown what the Scriptures say about the second coming.
arovir 2 years ago
Thank you. We, who believe the Word of God rather than the doctrines of men, are a minority. We will need to be ready to minister to those who suddenly discover that they were deceived. I'm sure you will receive a lot of opposition, but don't lose heart -- the Lord had revealed the truth of His Word to you. God bless you!
SERVANT2112 2 years ago 2
I appreciate your encouragement. God bless you too!
arovir 2 years ago
Excellent teaching of the Scriptures brother! Another argument I hear is "we are not appointed to wrath". Which is true, but I believe the wrath comes after the great tribulation. Also, if those who believe in pre-trib who usually use the wrath comment above; are not those who become Believers during the tribulation going to suffer wrath if His wrath is poured out during the tribulation?
We are to watch, not love our lives to the death, and stay on His narrow path of Faith, Hope, and Love!
TreyDubzz 2 years ago 4
Yes, brother, we must stay on the right track. I am in the process of preparing my next video which will be about, you guessed it... wrath in the end time. As you point out so well, using that verse to prove a pre trib journey to heaven falls flat on its face.
arovir 2 years ago
God bless you brother for speaking the truth about the church being present during tribulation.
Your sister in Christ,
Dannii.
AusDisciple 2 years ago 2
Thank you Dannii for your encouragement! God bless you too and help us all prepare for times ahead where ever in the world we may be.
arovir 2 years ago
The 2 witnesses also called prophets v10, prophesy 1260 days clothed in sackcloth. Their enemies are killed by fire. They cause no rain to fall, turn water to blood, strike the earth with all plagues, and are killed. Their dead bodies lie in Jerusalem "where also our Lord was crucified" v.8. After 3 1/2 days they are resurrected and taken to heaven. I don't mind your interpretation but for me it's difficult to fit the church in all this. Just because they are called candlesticks doesn't. Cont.
arovir 2 years ago
...mean they have to be churches. Concerning the stars in Rev 1:20, do we have to say every time we read of stars in Rev they must mean angels? What about Rev 2:28? Will Christ give overcomers the morning... angel? The 2 witnesses are also called "olive trees". Cf. Zech 4:3. The immediate context explains that the "two olive trees" here refer to Joshua the high priest 3:8 and Zerubbabel the governor 4:7. This helps us to understand that the two endtime witnesses/prophets will be two individuals.
arovir 2 years ago
again very Powerful Writing avoir.Ive had hard time with 2 olive trees.
2 questions. Zech 2:7 whats it saying israel gods good ones escape from a city refered to as daughter babylon .?Meaning judah or another israel city? and 2nd isnt there soem kind verse people use say its elija coming before jesus or something as one olvie trees. But what you presented seems the answer to me. Just curious
EastEndWatcher 2 years ago
Zech 2:7: Historically - speaking of the remnant of Jewish exiles in Babylon told to escape because of the coming fall of city to the Persians. Prophetically - God's people in end time Babylon told to get out before its destruction cf. Rev 18:2 & 4.
"Elijah" is mentioned in Mal 4:5 coming before Jesus returns. He will be a prophet in the power of Elijah. Seems to be one of the 2 prophets in Rev 11 since he performs signs similar to Elijah (Rev. 11:5 / 2 Kings 1:10; Rev. 11:6 / 1 Kings 17:1).
arovir 2 years ago
Ok so Joshua ,Zerubbabel or Eliijah maybe?
Good chance 2 these 3 right? Bible almost from Zech 4:3 seems its 2 you listed. But that leave Elijah where?
EastEndWatcher 2 years ago
I do not believe that Joshua and Zerubbabel are the two prophets of Rev 11. They are historical figures. We must understand that some prophecies in OT have layers of fulfillment, like I mentioned about Zech 2:7 - a near fulfillment and a fulfillment a long time in the future. One of the two prophets in Rev 11 may even be Elijah himself since he was taken to heaven in a chariot without dying. He could be sent back to prophesy for 3 1/2 years and then be killed.
arovir 2 years ago
The two prophets are Elijah and Enoch. Both were carried away to God. Both will be placed back down during the Tribulation Time.
ArmyofChristMissions 2 years ago
I wanted to make seperate post here Arovir. Your videos are very good.And you a unique and blessed way sharing things.Very on the mark. And you present it well. and Seems good lord has given you a gift.We need work together. For the truth always.More videos be much needed from you.
EastEndWatcher 2 years ago 3
Thank you for your kind comment. More videos are on the way!
arovir 2 years ago
The Church is one of the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation 11. Shalom
Revelation 1:20 "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven CANDLESTICKs which thou sawest ARE the seven CHURCHes."
Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses...These are the two olive trees, and the two CANDLESTICKs standing before the God of the earth."
theheat151 2 years ago
An interesting view but Jesus was the first fruit as is the church age which ends at the rapture. The saints of the tribulation are a different part of the body of beleivers coming to faith outside of the church age. We are not to go through the tribulation- if you study the jewish wedding model you would understand that the agenda for the bride does not involve the church being in wrath
pianohbc 2 years ago
I concur that the so-called "church age" ends at the rapture, which happens at the coming of Christ, which happens after the tribulation. As the book of Revelation shows the bride of Christ is comprised of the saints, all of them. Wherever the term 'saints' appears in the book they refer to the bride. We break the internal evidence of the book if we divide them up. in addition, the book makes a distinction between tribulation and wrath. The saints go thru tribulation, but are exempt from wrath.
arovir 2 years ago
A question here. Isnt Rev 14 god is seen standing On mt zion so isnt he here on earth?
Then Rev 15 harvest .16 bowls , 17,18 Mystery babylon and 19 Seems he comes? So in Rev 14 is it out order?
EastEndWatcher 2 years ago
Rev. appears to be written in typical prophetic fashion à la the OT i.e. recurring themes. The unbelievers see Christ coming in 6:16! The 2 prophets 11:10 are killed by the beast 11:7 two chapters before even the beast arises 13:1. At the 7th trumpet Christ takes over the world 11:15 eight chapters before He comes in 19:11. So yes, Rev 14 is "out of order" in our thinking, but this is perfectly in line with e.g Daniel's 5 prophecies of end time - all finish at the same point - the Kingdom come.
arovir 2 years ago
So help me here.Rev 14 is just a contiunace of Rev 11. and or 19.Or just add to story after his return correct?11 having little information just prior. then kind of outline?
EastEndWatcher 2 years ago
Rev 14:1 seems to reflect Is 24:23 (Mount Zion) where Christ comes to earth after the cosmic signs, after the trib described earlier in the chapter. Rev 11 describes the 2 witnesses in the last 3 1/2 years ending with the last trumpet when Christ returns to reign. Rev 12 describes the woman in the same 3 1/2 years. Rev 13 describes the 2 beasts in the same 3 1/2 years. Rev 14 continues with return v.1 and covers topics leading up to Christ's return v.14 cf.19:15 (winepress). Hope this helps!
arovir 2 years ago
Keep on being bold!
michaellarsadams 2 years ago
Great video, praise Ah-ayah bahasham
for the Lord is coming soon, yippee :) Thanks for this truth, God's blessing to you and yours till the day my beloved, Shalom!!
dvining40us 2 years ago 2
THANK YOU!
Jesus4MySoul 2 years ago 2
Praise God for your service to Him in preaching this truth! Those who know and read the Word, know this is truth!
1260days 2 years ago 4
Yes, God is good! Would you believe that I was a convinced pre-tribber until I was 27 years old? And that I almost got a book published defending the pre-trib teaching?
arovir 2 years ago
grace upon grace by the Holy Spirit teaching truth to those who are teachable by grace.
1260days 2 years ago 2
God is good. His sheep hear His voice and follow Him.
boltingpuppies 2 years ago 3
Yes, I'm glad that the Good Shepherd speaks to us. If only more of His sheep would stop wandering off and listen to Him.
arovir 2 years ago
5*s! Excellent teaching! Me must endure to the end! Worship God!
James1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations:3 Knowing, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.4 But let patience have perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
1Pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
InHISWord2 2 years ago 3
I appreciate very much your rating and comment! You know, Peter continued to write: "...may the God of all grace who has called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, AFTER you have SUFFERED A WHILE, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you" 1 Pet 5:10. Paul wrote that the saints "who are troubled" will receive "rest with us WHEN the Lord Jesus is REVEALED FROM HEAVEN with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God..." 1 Thess1:7. Clearly post-trib!
arovir 2 years ago
I know! I can't wait till Jesus comes!
I know that Jesus is only tarrying now to secure the last of the fold. Also we must be patient and allow God to finish the work he has begun in us.
Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform until the day of Jesus Christ:
Wahooo! Jesus is coming soon....but we must endure the troubles to come! Jesus will see us thru it all as Psalm 91 promises!
We serve a GOOD God!
Praise God and Jesus!
InHISWord2 2 years ago 2
Opps...you meant 2 Thess 1:7 but nonetheless I agree!
InHISWord2 2 years ago
Yes, thanks for the correction, well spotted! I put it there to test you! .... ...Well, not really :o) ... .....I'll blame the error on the time- it's in the middle of the night here.
The prospect of meeting Jesus will get us thru the trib rejoicing even in the face of persecution. May we be like the apostles who after being flogged rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His sake. Acts 5:41 - this reference is correct - double checked :o)
arovir 2 years ago
Double checked...LOL! I checked it too! So now triple checked!
I know I will be torn with whether to fall on my face or be leaping for joy at Jesus' return...Suppose I can do both?
InHISWord2 2 years ago
Yes, I suppose you can if you are able :o) At the gathering of the elect it's going to be very crowded, so there will be little chance of falling prostrate! You know, we can have a foretaste of the joy we will experience "at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with JOY inexpressible and full of glory" 1 Pet 1:7-8. J = Jesus first. O = Others next. Y = Yourself last.
arovir 2 years ago
There are those who teach the church will be gone and Israel will be the focus during the tribulation. You are right that is unbiblical. What is biblical is there will be a rapture, but even after the rapture the gospel will cause the church to form again continue, and evangelismof the gospel of rgace is still the focus during the tribulation. If you have any sort of intimacy with God, you ought to ask Him specifically about these things, being open-minded toward Him.
okebaram 2 years ago
Thank you for your comment. Yes, the the gospel of grace is still the focus during the tribulation. Indeed I have sought the Lord many times asking specifically about the things you mention being open-minded toward Him. What I have come to see concerning the rapture question is laid out in four other videos of mine - the ones with the word Rapture in the title.
arovir 2 years ago
Excellent message, best teaching on this, that we have seen! Favorited!!!!
Lachance8 2 years ago 2
Thanks for your encouragement. God bless!
arovir 2 years ago