Enoch was the first mortal being who had to call upon the gods - struck by the illusion of separation. This magic is for those that accept the illusion of separation - mugs wiv amnesia.
@RuffDiamond23 You are right. But you have to keep in mind that foremost Enoch is a fictional being, and that the name "enochian magic" was not used by Dee, but it was coined in later centuries (by the Ashmole pals, methinks). For Dee it was just "angelic" or "adamic" magic.
About 20 years ago I did an "Enochian" ritual out of the Satanic Bible and I lost 3 hours of time. I still puzzle over this. Anyone have any input on this? I learned back then that it wasn't real Enochian magic but obviously it did do something I just don't know what.
@samanthaeblack11 The problem with the satanic bible is that the enochian calls are the right ones, but what LaVey makes of them is just wrong. And as strange as it may sound, the calls have an "effect" on the mind, they open up certain layers of consciousness. Do you remember which one of the 19 calls you used in that ritual?
I have been doing a mix of Magick, Out of Body travel, & Mysticism techniques. To any inspiring "magician" its important to have a balanced development, start with Meditation (Zazen-Compassion) & the banishing rituals (both hexagram & pentagram) mixing the altered state of Meditation with the "energy" of the bashing rituals(being very safe), & do this for some time till the effects are obvious. When the Mind-subtle bodies are vivified all more advanced practices come much easier & safely.
@11Lucidity1 Yes, that's right and expressed perfectly. One of the most important things, though, is to remain critical about the experiences made, and never fully believe them. Even if other people that didn't know about the workings react in exactly the way that can be expected considering the nature of the workings.
@InfoSeeker93 Well, "simple" and "efficient" can be contradictory: Sometimes it's very efficient to allude to vast aspects of something. For example the Tetragrammaton IHVH alludes to the four elements, the four worlds, the layers of the psyche and so on, so it's not simple but rather sophisticated. I'd rather say "elegant": it may appear simple at the surface, but contains a sublime sophistication that makes it gargantuan and connected to eternity.
@tmafkap yes i agree with what u are saying. But I guess when i mean efficient I did not mean to take those details away. To give you an example: In some GD Rituals you have to receite endless incantations before evoking spirits. However for me I replace the incantations with mantras that represent the spirits and using intonation along with the seals, magical tools, directions, timing combined gives me good results. I basically never use long incantations for spirits. (efficiency)
Great to see your new video. Never got into Enochian Magic even though I was interested in it. I guess the complexities of it have kind of turned me away from it. Lately I have been mostly dealing with Shamanic Mysticism... When I get my life more on track I will get more into Ceremonial Magic.
The enochian system is at once very complex,and at the same time expresses a simple idea. Im not as adept at understanding Enochian,as I am at other systems. However there is indeed a great deal of influence that comes from it. I find it neat how so many Enochian words,can be found in ancient mythology. Even though there is no close cultural connection. I have a deck of cards that has enochian cosmology on one side,and the complete elemental system on the other! It includes all sub elements also
@SirGaul Yes, the language thing is amazing. I could descrive the way into the system as a voyage, sometimes guided by the beings connected to it (and sometimes tested by them). At some points I didn't make any progress for months, and then suddenly the problems are gone and every thing is clear...
When you're using the Enochian system, Eliphas, do you use all the equipment (the table, the wax tablets etc)? I'm fascinated by the system, and enjoy wallowing in the diagrams and codes, but the actual performing of the rituals seems to require a lot of fancy equipment.
@raindog951 No, I don't work with all that stuff. As I said, a little book is basically enough, the minimum requirement, so to speak. But quite possibly memorizing the important parts would be enough. Everybody is free to make use of the system and to make that use as complicated as they feel comfy with... :)
@bulldogger I think he is trying to say that occasionally one gets some kind of strange experience of an apparently supernatural nature 9which could be just psychological) that can, at times, be the foundation of a weak cause and effect based belief that overlaps with certain cultural ideas connected to the beliefs in alleged supernatural entities such as angels.
@BespokeGroupUK Not quite right. I think the fact that many people working with the Æthyrs at some point develop serious mental issues (and that occured in the GD as well, that's why the BOTA rejected the system) points at something behind that system that can't be explained away so easily (at least when somebody really investigates the system instead of just seeking refuge in theoretical preconceptions).
@BespokeGroupUK Well, let me add that the enochian system is quite independant from the european tradition, although we need that tradition to get into enochiana. The enochian system adds a new "dimension" to the dualistic model we are used to: there is physical reality, the "spiritual" realm with it's good/bad dichotomy, and there is the realm of the Æthyrs, the latter kind of being at the right angle to both the aforementioned realms. Indeed a fascinating system...
@bulldogger Watch my "To the sceptics, pt. 3" video, where I tell about one example. The results I get are mostly of the kind that "things work out as intended", especially in situations that appeared pointless and where the intention was mere wishful thinking.
Enoch was the first mortal being who had to call upon the gods - struck by the illusion of separation. This magic is for those that accept the illusion of separation - mugs wiv amnesia.
RuffDiamond23 1 month ago
@RuffDiamond23 You are right. But you have to keep in mind that foremost Enoch is a fictional being, and that the name "enochian magic" was not used by Dee, but it was coined in later centuries (by the Ashmole pals, methinks). For Dee it was just "angelic" or "adamic" magic.
tmafkap 1 month ago
About 20 years ago I did an "Enochian" ritual out of the Satanic Bible and I lost 3 hours of time. I still puzzle over this. Anyone have any input on this? I learned back then that it wasn't real Enochian magic but obviously it did do something I just don't know what.
samanthaeblack11 1 month ago
@samanthaeblack11 The problem with the satanic bible is that the enochian calls are the right ones, but what LaVey makes of them is just wrong. And as strange as it may sound, the calls have an "effect" on the mind, they open up certain layers of consciousness. Do you remember which one of the 19 calls you used in that ritual?
tmafkap 1 month ago
I have been doing a mix of Magick, Out of Body travel, & Mysticism techniques. To any inspiring "magician" its important to have a balanced development, start with Meditation (Zazen-Compassion) & the banishing rituals (both hexagram & pentagram) mixing the altered state of Meditation with the "energy" of the bashing rituals(being very safe), & do this for some time till the effects are obvious. When the Mind-subtle bodies are vivified all more advanced practices come much easier & safely.
11Lucidity1 3 months ago
@11Lucidity1 Yes, that's right and expressed perfectly. One of the most important things, though, is to remain critical about the experiences made, and never fully believe them. Even if other people that didn't know about the workings react in exactly the way that can be expected considering the nature of the workings.
tmafkap 3 months ago
You wanted to see the video when it was done well here it is.
mavarek666 4 months ago
I believe the key to any effective ceremonial magic including enochian magic is to keep it as simple, efficient, organized and practical as possible.
InfoSeeker93 11 months ago
@InfoSeeker93 Well, "simple" and "efficient" can be contradictory: Sometimes it's very efficient to allude to vast aspects of something. For example the Tetragrammaton IHVH alludes to the four elements, the four worlds, the layers of the psyche and so on, so it's not simple but rather sophisticated. I'd rather say "elegant": it may appear simple at the surface, but contains a sublime sophistication that makes it gargantuan and connected to eternity.
tmafkap 11 months ago
@tmafkap yes i agree with what u are saying. But I guess when i mean efficient I did not mean to take those details away. To give you an example: In some GD Rituals you have to receite endless incantations before evoking spirits. However for me I replace the incantations with mantras that represent the spirits and using intonation along with the seals, magical tools, directions, timing combined gives me good results. I basically never use long incantations for spirits. (efficiency)
InfoSeeker93 11 months ago
Great to see your new video. Never got into Enochian Magic even though I was interested in it. I guess the complexities of it have kind of turned me away from it. Lately I have been mostly dealing with Shamanic Mysticism... When I get my life more on track I will get more into Ceremonial Magic.
InfoSeeker93 11 months ago
The enochian system is at once very complex,and at the same time expresses a simple idea. Im not as adept at understanding Enochian,as I am at other systems. However there is indeed a great deal of influence that comes from it. I find it neat how so many Enochian words,can be found in ancient mythology. Even though there is no close cultural connection. I have a deck of cards that has enochian cosmology on one side,and the complete elemental system on the other! It includes all sub elements also
SirGaul 1 year ago
@SirGaul Yes, the language thing is amazing. I could descrive the way into the system as a voyage, sometimes guided by the beings connected to it (and sometimes tested by them). At some points I didn't make any progress for months, and then suddenly the problems are gone and every thing is clear...
tmafkap 1 year ago
When you're using the Enochian system, Eliphas, do you use all the equipment (the table, the wax tablets etc)? I'm fascinated by the system, and enjoy wallowing in the diagrams and codes, but the actual performing of the rituals seems to require a lot of fancy equipment.
raindog951 1 year ago
@raindog951 No, I don't work with all that stuff. As I said, a little book is basically enough, the minimum requirement, so to speak. But quite possibly memorizing the important parts would be enough. Everybody is free to make use of the system and to make that use as complicated as they feel comfy with... :)
tmafkap 1 year ago
fascinating
BespokeGroupUK 1 year ago
When you say it works, what do you mean?
bulldogger 1 year ago
@bulldogger I think he is trying to say that occasionally one gets some kind of strange experience of an apparently supernatural nature 9which could be just psychological) that can, at times, be the foundation of a weak cause and effect based belief that overlaps with certain cultural ideas connected to the beliefs in alleged supernatural entities such as angels.
BespokeGroupUK 1 year ago
@BespokeGroupUK So random supernatural experiences are the goal of magick?
bulldogger 1 year ago
@bulldogger The search or apparently strange experiences is "A" goal for magick, not "THE" goal. i don't think that there is a "THE" goal.
BespokeGroupUK 1 year ago
@BespokeGroupUK Not quite right. I think the fact that many people working with the Æthyrs at some point develop serious mental issues (and that occured in the GD as well, that's why the BOTA rejected the system) points at something behind that system that can't be explained away so easily (at least when somebody really investigates the system instead of just seeking refuge in theoretical preconceptions).
tmafkap 1 year ago
@tmafkap Indeed something might be, but what that is, we can't say. That why i have this occult-positive, spiritual-positive agnostic attitude.
BespokeGroupUK 1 year ago
@BespokeGroupUK Well, let me add that the enochian system is quite independant from the european tradition, although we need that tradition to get into enochiana. The enochian system adds a new "dimension" to the dualistic model we are used to: there is physical reality, the "spiritual" realm with it's good/bad dichotomy, and there is the realm of the Æthyrs, the latter kind of being at the right angle to both the aforementioned realms. Indeed a fascinating system...
tmafkap 1 year ago
@bulldogger Watch my "To the sceptics, pt. 3" video, where I tell about one example. The results I get are mostly of the kind that "things work out as intended", especially in situations that appeared pointless and where the intention was mere wishful thinking.
tmafkap 1 year ago