I know this is barely related, but one thing you said is the reason I loved all of Kubrick's movies - lack of moral standpoint. A Clockwork Orange does not tell you who is the bad guy or good guy, it just shows you life as it is in that universe, as does 2001 and FMJ. And that's why I HATED Inherit the Wind. That film is based on the Scopes trial, but omits one major fact in order to get across a corrupt moral message. The omitted fact is that the trial was a publicity stunt for the town.
Jesus camp is a movie about a reality that should make any christian ashamed. Not ashamed of being a christian, but ashamed we let this people do what they do, AND REPRESENT US. THEY AIN'T US! THEY are a not christians at all!!! We should stop THIS CRAZY PEOPLE!. Let's go christians, let's go and STOP this stupid , self centered, warmonging bitch!
I feel like if I ever see someone protesting on the side of the street with a sign saying that religious crap about rape victims being whores or gays should die or soldiers deserve to die I would run over them with my car or personally give them a nice beating with a baseball bat. They kill and hurt people for not believing what they believe then I'll do the same god damn thing. Some people use religion for the values while others should just get their tongue cut off.
I too don't believe people who are suppose to symbolize love try to condemn people like they have the power 2 do that. So 2 all people that has religion that immediatley damns people from their life styles, I just want 2 let u know that isn't 4rm God. God is LOVE! Read the Bible & u'll see the kind of life Jesus lived, he sat, talked & hung w/ the most hated people in society @ that time, he didn't do the stuff they did, but he didn't treat them like they weren't capable to get salvation!! Amen?
camp jesus...child abusers! I'd rather see a child go through sexual abuse than this kind of brainwashing. Why someone hasn't hunted these adult monsters down I haven't a clue.
@standinstann Well maybe I was a bit extreme, but I read the testimony of this woman who had been abused for a 2 yr period by friends of her mother and father and also brought up with horrible fears of hell and satan. She stated if she could forget any part of it, it would be the fears hers parents religion brought upon her.
The difference here is that these people are misguided; a rapist, or an abusive parent is malicious. That doesn't excuse what's going on in this movie, but it does make it different in character, even if the ends are smiler.
@standinstann "misguided"??? I'd say delusionally insane. Along with mentally paralyzed and fundamentally scitsofrenic. Furturemore... people exposing children to their religious beliefs are far more common than a sexually deviant. Therefore more perilous to society.
There is a difference between exposing your children to your religious belief and... 'this'.
This isn't all that different from parents who insist that their children be jocks or follow in the family profession; in those cases and this one, the people are definitely misguided, not psychotic; the methods here are too far, to be sure; but let's not overstate the matter.
@standinstann Raising children to fear gods, demons, and hell is far from raising your child to be athletic or follow in dad's footsteps in the family biz. Many psychologist see brainwashing children with religious beliefs as abuse. Sure there are different levels a parent can take their teachings but in general, a child that believes he/she will go to to hell if they sin..is an abused child. It's an affliction! An affliction difficult to reverse as it paralyzes their ability to think rationally
@standinstann Exposing or teaching...whatever! If a child is exposed to it, chances are they are being taught it. Or should I say being "socialized" with religious beliefs. Socializing your children with religious beliefs IS brainwashing, IS abuse! There ya go...plain and simple.
@standinstann I'm not talking about military tactics, and yes socialization is a mild form of brainwashing. The brainwashing I'm talking about is the systematic application of coercive tactics used to change or control behavior. Just look at how impaired a child is who is brought up with gods. Lose the ability to reason and think rationally. I have 4 kids all over the age of 16, while growing up, I can't tell you how many times other children have come up to them saying they were going to hell.
@standinstann cont..I see those children as brainwashed. Here is an example of how effective that brainwashing is and how difficult it is for some children to rid themselves of those foolish beliefs. My daughter is in her junior year of college and while discussing evolution in the classroom, a kid stands up and ask "what about ID?" the professor replied "no we don't discuss it". The kid stomped out of the room saying "well you're going to hell". I find this absurd and also sad. "brainwashing"
@radiosandclocks In collage???? That isn't brainwashing on the part of that kid, that's immaturity.
I would hazard that the kids reaction had to do with the percieved "culture war" going on; not 'just' the religious thing; but nevertheless; there is a big difference between that and what we're talking about.
How might a parent teach their religion to their child 'without' "Brainwashing them?
@standinstann Immaturity? Let me put it like this.. most children socialized with religious beliefs hang onto those beliefs (even through college), far beyond the age that they are mentally capable of doing their own rational thinking. That is why we have so many adults out there with religious faiths. Psychologist say that this powerful process is due to brainwashing. People can get over prejudice and other negative traits learned by their parents as they mature intellectually. Religion sticks!
@radiosandclocks Children are mentally capable of having their own rational thinking belief system if you present it to them correctly. That was the big problem in "Jesus Camp" kids learned a faith system which kids can do if done correctly at their level. The point is not their age the issue is where is the why in "Jesus Camp". Children can learn why they believe what they do at their level if you encourage them to listen, ponder on it, and study.
@standinstann Simple answer to that question...DON'T teach your beliefs to your children! At least not until they are at an age where they can logically reason on their own. Teach them about your religion and what your beliefs are, but don't brainwash them into sharing your beliefs. Raising children to fear gods, devils, and hell is abuse. Even if parents only use religion to get good behavior out of there children and then crayfish on them later saying it's BS (as in Santa)...is wrong.
If your problem with the people in this movie are that they're teaching Christianity to people "at all" then you can not be distinguishing between the 'way' that they teach them those things, and 'that' they're teaching them those things.
There is in intrinsic difference between parents who teach the Christian (or any other) faith to their children, and those who insist that if they don't follow it terrible things will happen to them (con't)
The people in this movie are not teaching Christianity to these children; they are trying to control and modify their behavior by making (essentially) threats.
Were that true in every (or even most) cases, I would agree with you; but to point out what's going on in this movie, and then make that a symbol of Christianity is disingenuous.
@standinstann to the point about my personally believing in God, i don't know what sort of comment that invites. i'm not offended by it, i just don't know where we can go if your default position is that all religious belief is the result of brainwashing.
If I believe in God because i was brainwashed, then I also believe in freedom, liberty, economic rights, and and everything else that requires intellectual guidance because i was brainwashed.
@standinstann OH! so we're not talking about the impact religion has upon children, but simply what constitutes brainwashing? Good! I'm glad to get away from kids to be honest. I read that brainwashing can be called socializing. But no one uses the word brainwashing when discussing learning traits (freedom, liberty, economics etc) correct? I use the word brainwashing (as many do) when discussing religion simply because it's negative, a behavior tool, and generally irreversible. Creates Dolts!:)
@standinstann Well I see religion as a social cancer. Prescribed indoctrination, which is most common here in the US, is what I'm talking about. I've never come across a christian family that teaches christianity as a god-free, fear-free ideology. All christian parents I've interacted with teach "fear". They teach the fear of Jesus, the fear of hell, the fear of punishment, and the fear of death.
@radiosandclocks I don't know of any ideology that is fear free; God or no god. i'm sorry, but fear is a part of growing up; the question is; how much tact will the parent use in cautioning their children against talking to strangers; taking things from strangers, etc.
The prospect of being kidnapped and hurt is a frightening one, but the child must understand it in order for it to be safe. (con't)
Now if you try and tell your kid not to talk to strangers by showing them stock footage of murdered and raped children for three hours; you have the secular equivalent of this film.
@standinstann the ideology I brought my kids up with..."nature" does have it's fears. Many fears! Especially here in California!:) But I think there's a big difference between those kind of fears and the fears christians grow up with. I also find the fears christian children are brought up with are only a small part of what's wrong with bringing up your children with religious beliefs. We already discussed that so I won't go into it. "Kidnappers & bad men", in my neighborhood they were there!:)
@standinstann I don't care what methods are used teaching christianity (or any other religion) to children. Whether it's done at "Camp Jesus" or the "little christian church of wholesome nourishment"...keep your faith in gods to yourself until the child has developed intellectually. Teaching them your superstitious beliefs and living by your beliefs only impairs their development. I find ALL people living with beiefs in gods irrational and delusional. Same for christian science/non-god religion
@standinstann Stan, I can see you're an intelligent man. I can also say that if you are a believer in gods...we will not get far with this discussion. Please don't be offended by this next remark but I have to say it. You being a very intelligent man, if you are abeliever in gods...you a product of this brainwashing process we discussed. I really have nothing more to say except..if you plan on debating the existance of gods...I really don't do that. This discussion though...has been good. ITY
Probably not. i kinda feel about it the way my brother feels about "enterprise". I don't think it needs any more attention than it's already gotten. Even negative attention.
@damanhl It would be nice. Of course, the "WBD" has been debunked so there isn't much to say there. Then again . . . his issue was with it's manipulation. Not so much it's lies.
These people remind me of Jonestown. There's a documentary on that cult that ended in a "mass suicide". I use quotes because the children and babies were murdered--the poison was put in their mouths.
not a complaint, just emphasizing previous posts. The very nature of documentaries is exactly this: a view of a subject full of points backing up that stance and usually, but not always, in an attempt to change said subject. Great example, the winner of this year's Best Documentary Oscar was for that film about that cove in Japan where they are killing dolphins. In the documentary (I haven't seen it), of course, they are going to use facts against the dolphin-killers b/c it helps their point.
At first I was quite taken with your approach to the "National Geographic are making subversive documentaries and you people are just too dumb to get it approach" ...
Religion and objectivity - together in the same room ... nah, like gelignite and lit match - it's just asking for trouble - anyhow they'd both fight 'dirty' ...
Religious extremism is on the move, once again intent on bringing peace and harmony to the world via war and persecution - thank god. Love the video - deply disturbing
The part about 'ridicule" is a response to what @beeber2 posted. His usage of "Above average christians" would typically indicate superiority in abilities or standing. I find it laughable that one would allude to the Hell Housers as "above average". Maybe above the average mole rat, but that would be patently unfair to mole rats in general since I believe that they have a much firmer grip on reality.
The Standiastan question is just goof on your nick.
They're terrible. Think about it; the film was made to make christianity is evil.
When are they going to stop this nonsence? They only focus on the average chrisitians rather on above-average chritians. Why do they alwys do this to us??
This film was not a look at christianity, it was a look at extreem christianity. The talk show host was him self a christian, and it was said over and over again in the film that these people weren't a proper example of the christian religion.
I'm pretty sure you don't understand what documentary is. "Objectivity" isn't necessarily what documentary strives for. Film as a medium has the inherent quality of dramatizing and emphasizing events. You must realize that there is a difference between documentary and news. A documentary will tell you it's viewpoint and subsequently select facts in order to support it. Even Nat Geo documentaries had this quality (and indeed still do today). Much of Nat Geo's work is centered around conservation.
It is extremely naive to expect objectivity in documentary. It is up to the viewer to do a little bit of critical thinking and analysis in order to decide what to believe or not to believe. If you watch a documentary and believe that you've seen a totally objective work, you have not looked nearly close enough.
Great vid, Stan. I, too, miss objectivity and actual journalism.
I think it is a crime against humanity that a worthless piece of shit called "An Inconvenient Truth" won the Oscar for Best Documentary rather than Jesus Camp. But then, who with a brain takes the Oscars seriously?
Evangelical Christians are a very potent and viable force in American society and politics. They should be accurately understood, and Jesus Camp does a great job revealing their true nature to the viewer.
I've seen Jesus Camp, but not Hell House. Now that I know it exists, I'm interested in seeing it. I also rather liked your analysis on what a documentary should be.
damn, getting into deep stuff, i know this sounds crazy, but i view movies llike schindlers list and requiem for a dream as sort of "silent" documenteries, they showcase things, that have a plot, but the main focus is not the plot, but the viewers emotions, that is my belief, and if you dont agree, fine
I liked the first part of Zeitgeist but when I saw the beginning of the second part and saw that it was 9/11 truther propaganda I wanted to cry. Anyways. I was wondering, because you seem to be so objective about film and star trek series' etc... Why theism? Further more why Catholosism? I'm more intruiged then "putting you on the spot" because most of the theists in my life (why whole family) are so sheep-like never really giving me answers without invoking blind faith.
If you're asking me why I think that theism is reasonable, I can answer that by reccomending a book called "How to think about God" by Philosopher Mortimer J Adler.
The question "Why Catholicism?" would require me to go into the many phazes of my life which I can't really do in a comment, and would likely be boring. (lol)
lol what a coincidence, I just finished watching Zeitgeist and Religulous lol and now you are talking about Jesus Camp - we can have a pretty good conversation about beiliefs =o
I haven't seen Hell House yet, (although I've been to one before), but Jesus Camp made me physically ill. Although, I had to laugh when they visited the completely-heterosexual Ted Haggard. Good intro . . . hopefully your second part is as good.
I liked it too. I just think that if it had any intention other than making religous people look silly, it failed at it, but it was entertaining none the less.
Stan thank you very much for this segment and for treating the subject material with respect. I am glad to see that someone can see some flaws in a faith and not bash it into oblivion or combine all religions in the same boat, like some in the media do.
Also have you read sfdebris review on Sacred Ground he has an excellent comparison betwween religion and science and how a man of faith can be just as scientific and philisophical as a man who doesn't profess to have any faith in particular.
Great! A new video! I've been looking forward to this!!!
In your brief snip-it it didn't look like you enjoyed religulous... =/ is this true? What're your thoughts on it? I actually enjoyed the film a lot for what it was. I'm 99% sure I'll be taking your recommendations in the near future
1st Ill say zeitgeist addendum is way better and more relevant then the first .2nd if you watch a documentary and the music is in the forefront of your attention then youre obviously not paying attention at all. Im too busy listening the narrator and contemplating the subject matter too be distracted by the music. 3rd its impossible for all documentaries to be made in the style of jesus camp. When you have a bunch of nut jobs like that its easy to just point a camera and have no narration.
I havn't seen "zeitgeist addendum" but I will. As for paying attention, I did as much as I could weed through the distracting and manipulative sound track. I just don't think it should have been there.
As for your third point, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. But to clarify, I'm not saying that documentaries shouldn't have a narrator, I'm saying that I generaly prefer the experience of just spending time with the people in them.
You should definitely check out zeitgeist addendum. And if the music still bugs you (and it really shouldnt because its the last thing you should be worried about) google zeitgeist orientation. That has no music at all except in the opening. And it would be great if you did a video sharing your thoughts on both of these.
Zeitgeist Addendum is no better. Its first portion, about the federal reserve, is something I agree with but I wouldn't call it unbiased. The movie culminates with a recommendation that's completely out of left field and hardly the only solution to the problems presented by the first and second film, however relevant they were supposed to be.
While it wasn't as blatantly biased as the first, I'd consider it sufficiently absurd. And not just because I disagree with the conclusions.
I remember the segment about the federal reserve in the first one, and it was true to an extent, but there were so many errors in understanding what the federal reserve is.
There are so many ways in which the federal reserve is not like a bank, and the ways in which it's similer make it an unlikely choice for people to try and make money off of it.
Documentaries these days are far from objective and I think if you read the titles of the documentaries on Channel 4 over the years since its inception, you can see them pushing away from hard journalism and spiralling downward with increasing speed toward titillation and shock value.
The entire MMR/autism scare was a WHOLLY media generated story that impacted negatively on the population as a whole.
Not quite the point you're making but yeah, integrity isn't in fashion these days.
I really want to see your videos on these documentaries. I have seen Hell House on the Documentary Channel and I have seen Jesus Camp on youtube with BigAl2k6's commentary.
I think the point of most documentrary's like the dawkins and stein documentary's are to convey a certain point of view, as it so happens I personally I enjoy the dawkins documentary you cited (though not technically a movie but a t.v series), is that a criticism or an observation on your part...
Just an observation, I liked dawkins documentary as well. I didn't agree with him persey, but I like how he approached the people and the subject. Not to mention is was a well made film.
In germany this change hasn't happened. I follow the moorestuff but I really gotta say , in europe this is not the case. The documentarys in germany do nearly never force an opinion on you.
Thanks
abeldanger(dot)net
OttoLund 1 month ago
I know this is barely related, but one thing you said is the reason I loved all of Kubrick's movies - lack of moral standpoint. A Clockwork Orange does not tell you who is the bad guy or good guy, it just shows you life as it is in that universe, as does 2001 and FMJ. And that's why I HATED Inherit the Wind. That film is based on the Scopes trial, but omits one major fact in order to get across a corrupt moral message. The omitted fact is that the trial was a publicity stunt for the town.
Bassbait 7 months ago
Finally, someone with independent thoughts!!! Way to go!
anjalielizabeth 8 months ago
Jesus camp is a movie about a reality that should make any christian ashamed. Not ashamed of being a christian, but ashamed we let this people do what they do, AND REPRESENT US. THEY AIN'T US! THEY are a not christians at all!!! We should stop THIS CRAZY PEOPLE!. Let's go christians, let's go and STOP this stupid , self centered, warmonging bitch!
trufamoon 8 months ago 4
I feel like if I ever see someone protesting on the side of the street with a sign saying that religious crap about rape victims being whores or gays should die or soldiers deserve to die I would run over them with my car or personally give them a nice beating with a baseball bat. They kill and hurt people for not believing what they believe then I'll do the same god damn thing. Some people use religion for the values while others should just get their tongue cut off.
Mimibie 1 year ago
I too don't believe people who are suppose to symbolize love try to condemn people like they have the power 2 do that. So 2 all people that has religion that immediatley damns people from their life styles, I just want 2 let u know that isn't 4rm God. God is LOVE! Read the Bible & u'll see the kind of life Jesus lived, he sat, talked & hung w/ the most hated people in society @ that time, he didn't do the stuff they did, but he didn't treat them like they weren't capable to get salvation!! Amen?
SellyM6693 9 months ago
annoying film snob
SanguineBullet667 1 year ago
lol michael moore rules
azerothblood 1 year ago
This is fucked. That bitch should be killed, i find it hard to believe she is still living
resh0m 1 year ago 3
I started watching Jesus Camp... but halfway through it became too scary to continue watching (-:
I agree with your review though... i hate films that spoon feed you and tell you what to think and what your opinion should be.
Supenmanu 1 year ago
Yeah. "Web based documentary". That should let everyone know what they're getting into.
NeverAloneForever 1 year ago
HOUSE NIGGA
spites1 1 year ago
I agree with you that I hate it when films try and tell you what to feel. I thought LOTR: Return of the King was terrible in this regard.
lorezapocalypse 1 year ago
@lorezapocalypse That's not a documentary so it's not necessarily it's worst flaw.
NeverAloneForever 1 year ago
I saw Jesus Camp. those christians are downright creepy
Wolfboy183 1 year ago
camp jesus...child abusers! I'd rather see a child go through sexual abuse than this kind of brainwashing. Why someone hasn't hunted these adult monsters down I haven't a clue.
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@radiosandclocks
I wouldn't go 'that' far.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann Well maybe I was a bit extreme, but I read the testimony of this woman who had been abused for a 2 yr period by friends of her mother and father and also brought up with horrible fears of hell and satan. She stated if she could forget any part of it, it would be the fears hers parents religion brought upon her.
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@radiosandclocks
The difference here is that these people are misguided; a rapist, or an abusive parent is malicious. That doesn't excuse what's going on in this movie, but it does make it different in character, even if the ends are smiler.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann "misguided"??? I'd say delusionally insane. Along with mentally paralyzed and fundamentally scitsofrenic. Furturemore... people exposing children to their religious beliefs are far more common than a sexually deviant. Therefore more perilous to society.
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@radiosandclocks
There is a difference between exposing your children to your religious belief and... 'this'.
This isn't all that different from parents who insist that their children be jocks or follow in the family profession; in those cases and this one, the people are definitely misguided, not psychotic; the methods here are too far, to be sure; but let's not overstate the matter.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann Raising children to fear gods, demons, and hell is far from raising your child to be athletic or follow in dad's footsteps in the family biz. Many psychologist see brainwashing children with religious beliefs as abuse. Sure there are different levels a parent can take their teachings but in general, a child that believes he/she will go to to hell if they sin..is an abused child. It's an affliction! An affliction difficult to reverse as it paralyzes their ability to think rationally
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@radiosandclocks
That isn't what you said: you said "Exposing your children to your religious beliefs" which is not an act of brainwashing.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann Exposing or teaching...whatever! If a child is exposed to it, chances are they are being taught it. Or should I say being "socialized" with religious beliefs. Socializing your children with religious beliefs IS brainwashing, IS abuse! There ya go...plain and simple.
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@radiosandclocks By that logic, so is everything.
There is in fact a difference between teaching and brainwashing; regardless of what your teaching
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann I'm not talking about military tactics, and yes socialization is a mild form of brainwashing. The brainwashing I'm talking about is the systematic application of coercive tactics used to change or control behavior. Just look at how impaired a child is who is brought up with gods. Lose the ability to reason and think rationally. I have 4 kids all over the age of 16, while growing up, I can't tell you how many times other children have come up to them saying they were going to hell.
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@standinstann cont..I see those children as brainwashed. Here is an example of how effective that brainwashing is and how difficult it is for some children to rid themselves of those foolish beliefs. My daughter is in her junior year of college and while discussing evolution in the classroom, a kid stands up and ask "what about ID?" the professor replied "no we don't discuss it". The kid stomped out of the room saying "well you're going to hell". I find this absurd and also sad. "brainwashing"
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@radiosandclocks In collage???? That isn't brainwashing on the part of that kid, that's immaturity.
I would hazard that the kids reaction had to do with the percieved "culture war" going on; not 'just' the religious thing; but nevertheless; there is a big difference between that and what we're talking about.
How might a parent teach their religion to their child 'without' "Brainwashing them?
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann Immaturity? Let me put it like this.. most children socialized with religious beliefs hang onto those beliefs (even through college), far beyond the age that they are mentally capable of doing their own rational thinking. That is why we have so many adults out there with religious faiths. Psychologist say that this powerful process is due to brainwashing. People can get over prejudice and other negative traits learned by their parents as they mature intellectually. Religion sticks!
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@radiosandclocks Children are mentally capable of having their own rational thinking belief system if you present it to them correctly. That was the big problem in "Jesus Camp" kids learned a faith system which kids can do if done correctly at their level. The point is not their age the issue is where is the why in "Jesus Camp". Children can learn why they believe what they do at their level if you encourage them to listen, ponder on it, and study.
N25Jful 1 week ago
@standinstann Simple answer to that question...DON'T teach your beliefs to your children! At least not until they are at an age where they can logically reason on their own. Teach them about your religion and what your beliefs are, but don't brainwash them into sharing your beliefs. Raising children to fear gods, devils, and hell is abuse. Even if parents only use religion to get good behavior out of there children and then crayfish on them later saying it's BS (as in Santa)...is wrong.
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@radiosandclocks
If your problem with the people in this movie are that they're teaching Christianity to people "at all" then you can not be distinguishing between the 'way' that they teach them those things, and 'that' they're teaching them those things.
There is in intrinsic difference between parents who teach the Christian (or any other) faith to their children, and those who insist that if they don't follow it terrible things will happen to them (con't)
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann
The people in this movie are not teaching Christianity to these children; they are trying to control and modify their behavior by making (essentially) threats.
Were that true in every (or even most) cases, I would agree with you; but to point out what's going on in this movie, and then make that a symbol of Christianity is disingenuous.
(con't)
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann to the point about my personally believing in God, i don't know what sort of comment that invites. i'm not offended by it, i just don't know where we can go if your default position is that all religious belief is the result of brainwashing.
If I believe in God because i was brainwashed, then I also believe in freedom, liberty, economic rights, and and everything else that requires intellectual guidance because i was brainwashed.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann OH! so we're not talking about the impact religion has upon children, but simply what constitutes brainwashing? Good! I'm glad to get away from kids to be honest. I read that brainwashing can be called socializing. But no one uses the word brainwashing when discussing learning traits (freedom, liberty, economics etc) correct? I use the word brainwashing (as many do) when discussing religion simply because it's negative, a behavior tool, and generally irreversible. Creates Dolts!:)
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@radiosandclocks
No, we aren't talking about the impact that religion has on children; we're talking about the impact that indoctrination has on children.
Plenty of children are raised in a particular religion without this kind of result.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann Well I see religion as a social cancer. Prescribed indoctrination, which is most common here in the US, is what I'm talking about. I've never come across a christian family that teaches christianity as a god-free, fear-free ideology. All christian parents I've interacted with teach "fear". They teach the fear of Jesus, the fear of hell, the fear of punishment, and the fear of death.
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@radiosandclocks I don't know of any ideology that is fear free; God or no god. i'm sorry, but fear is a part of growing up; the question is; how much tact will the parent use in cautioning their children against talking to strangers; taking things from strangers, etc.
The prospect of being kidnapped and hurt is a frightening one, but the child must understand it in order for it to be safe. (con't)
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann
Now if you try and tell your kid not to talk to strangers by showing them stock footage of murdered and raped children for three hours; you have the secular equivalent of this film.
standinstann 1 year ago
@standinstann the ideology I brought my kids up with..."nature" does have it's fears. Many fears! Especially here in California!:) But I think there's a big difference between those kind of fears and the fears christians grow up with. I also find the fears christian children are brought up with are only a small part of what's wrong with bringing up your children with religious beliefs. We already discussed that so I won't go into it. "Kidnappers & bad men", in my neighborhood they were there!:)
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@standinstann I don't care what methods are used teaching christianity (or any other religion) to children. Whether it's done at "Camp Jesus" or the "little christian church of wholesome nourishment"...keep your faith in gods to yourself until the child has developed intellectually. Teaching them your superstitious beliefs and living by your beliefs only impairs their development. I find ALL people living with beiefs in gods irrational and delusional. Same for christian science/non-god religion
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
@standinstann Stan, I can see you're an intelligent man. I can also say that if you are a believer in gods...we will not get far with this discussion. Please don't be offended by this next remark but I have to say it. You being a very intelligent man, if you are abeliever in gods...you a product of this brainwashing process we discussed. I really have nothing more to say except..if you plan on debating the existance of gods...I really don't do that. This discussion though...has been good. ITY
radiosandclocks 1 year ago
I think what you said was totally true about the films. I saw both of them and they were good because of that.
LittlePinky82 1 year ago
So what about the video about Zeitgeist? Still planning on doing that?
damanhl 1 year ago
@damanhl
Probably not. i kinda feel about it the way my brother feels about "enterprise". I don't think it needs any more attention than it's already gotten. Even negative attention.
standinstann 1 year ago
@damanhl It would be nice. Of course, the "WBD" has been debunked so there isn't much to say there. Then again . . . his issue was with it's manipulation. Not so much it's lies.
NeverAloneForever 1 year ago
These people remind me of Jonestown. There's a documentary on that cult that ended in a "mass suicide". I use quotes because the children and babies were murdered--the poison was put in their mouths.
charlesvan13 1 year ago
not a complaint, just emphasizing previous posts. The very nature of documentaries is exactly this: a view of a subject full of points backing up that stance and usually, but not always, in an attempt to change said subject. Great example, the winner of this year's Best Documentary Oscar was for that film about that cove in Japan where they are killing dolphins. In the documentary (I haven't seen it), of course, they are going to use facts against the dolphin-killers b/c it helps their point.
hiphopbwwsoccer 1 year ago
You dont think "Expelled" was way worse than " Zeitgeist" with the sounds and images?
martysaysso 2 years ago
I talk about that in my review of it.
standinstann 2 years ago
I tried to watch Jesus Camp, but I was so horrified that I couldn't get past the first 20 min.
All I could think of was: "why aren't social services taking those kids out of there? Those people shouldn't be anywhere near children!"
Unicron4ever 2 years ago
dude its one those things u laugh @ and say better them than me
Acage69 2 years ago
At first I was quite taken with your approach to the "National Geographic are making subversive documentaries and you people are just too dumb to get it approach" ...
Religion and objectivity - together in the same room ... nah, like gelignite and lit match - it's just asking for trouble - anyhow they'd both fight 'dirty' ...
Religious extremism is on the move, once again intent on bringing peace and harmony to the world via war and persecution - thank god. Love the video - deply disturbing
FoolOfGods 2 years ago
I'm not staying tuned for part two ... Jesus shit? -yawn-
deadgirlsELITE 2 years ago
What do you think about Steven Spielberg's film
Schindler's List?
heihei2300 2 years ago
@ledhed1488 "Objectivity" isn't necessarily what documentary strives for.
Micheal Moore gives life to that observation, to be sure.
DoucheBagster 2 years ago
"above average Christians"????
THAT is why you should be help up for ridicule. If you think that this twisted, ranting, bizarre deranged behavior is normal...
Then you are dangerous.
Standinastan
Is that near Pakistan?
DoucheBagster 2 years ago 8
was that directed at me or just a general statement?
standinstann 2 years ago
The part about 'ridicule" is a response to what @beeber2 posted. His usage of "Above average christians" would typically indicate superiority in abilities or standing. I find it laughable that one would allude to the Hell Housers as "above average". Maybe above the average mole rat, but that would be patently unfair to mole rats in general since I believe that they have a much firmer grip on reality.
The Standiastan question is just goof on your nick.
DoucheBagster 2 years ago
oh, lol, okay I see what context the "above average christians" thing was in.
The question I always found funny :p
(And no, it's near khazastan. LOL.)
standinstann 2 years ago
They're terrible. Think about it; the film was made to make christianity is evil.
When are they going to stop this nonsence? They only focus on the average chrisitians rather on above-average chritians. Why do they alwys do this to us??
beeber2 2 years ago
This film was not a look at christianity, it was a look at extreem christianity. The talk show host was him self a christian, and it was said over and over again in the film that these people weren't a proper example of the christian religion.
standinstann 2 years ago
I'm pretty sure you don't understand what documentary is. "Objectivity" isn't necessarily what documentary strives for. Film as a medium has the inherent quality of dramatizing and emphasizing events. You must realize that there is a difference between documentary and news. A documentary will tell you it's viewpoint and subsequently select facts in order to support it. Even Nat Geo documentaries had this quality (and indeed still do today). Much of Nat Geo's work is centered around conservation.
ledhed1488 2 years ago
It is extremely naive to expect objectivity in documentary. It is up to the viewer to do a little bit of critical thinking and analysis in order to decide what to believe or not to believe. If you watch a documentary and believe that you've seen a totally objective work, you have not looked nearly close enough.
ledhed1488 2 years ago
Holy shit, I didn't realize that..... WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE NAT-GEO STYLE FILMS?!
Shit..... I need to go buy Discovery's "Planet Earth."
Xunkun 2 years ago
jesus camp is one creepy film.
computerdude5421 2 years ago 37
Great points you make about documentary films. Show it don't tell it. Let the audience decide what they think.
KronantheBarbarian 2 years ago
he sounds so much like matthew
bklonb 2 years ago
Great vid, Stan. I, too, miss objectivity and actual journalism.
I think it is a crime against humanity that a worthless piece of shit called "An Inconvenient Truth" won the Oscar for Best Documentary rather than Jesus Camp. But then, who with a brain takes the Oscars seriously?
Evangelical Christians are a very potent and viable force in American society and politics. They should be accurately understood, and Jesus Camp does a great job revealing their true nature to the viewer.
Thanks!
DeathToAllReligions 2 years ago
I've seen Jesus Camp, but not Hell House. Now that I know it exists, I'm interested in seeing it. I also rather liked your analysis on what a documentary should be.
ElectricMayhem87 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
hey stan. your microphone is shit. please buy something good :)
tony999hr 2 years ago
hey tony your comment is shit please write something better ;)
DC44101 2 years ago 2
You sound a lot like your brother! XD
crshh 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
this is confuss matthew:))
Metalgear55 2 years ago
NO ITS HIS BROTHER
thezamzie 2 years ago
off course it is, and i like the human race!!
Metalgear55 2 years ago
damn, getting into deep stuff, i know this sounds crazy, but i view movies llike schindlers list and requiem for a dream as sort of "silent" documenteries, they showcase things, that have a plot, but the main focus is not the plot, but the viewers emotions, that is my belief, and if you dont agree, fine
thedudeperson 2 years ago
I'm not great at commenting
and with this I don't want to insult you or anything
but you pronounced Zeitgeist wrong
you made the Z a soft (german) S
it's more like the tz in "waltz"
just so you know
I'm german I have to know right pronounciation
notpointed 2 years ago
That's actualy realy interesting, I never knew that.
I know that people tend to pronouunce Nietzsche as "neechee", where as the correct pronounceation is something like "Niecha"
standinstann 2 years ago
that I didn't know, I have to admit
notpointed 2 years ago
No stan is actually correct.
Although Zeitgeist might be a german word, it was adapted in the US decades ago.
And in almost all instances it is pronounced "Seitgeist". S
So if you talk about that "Documentary" Zeitgeist and you wanna say the original Name you say "Seitgeist".
As a German I found that really odd at first, but I did some research on that and "Seitgeist" is at least urban slang.
Best wishes from Germany
Goulgag 2 years ago
yeah but still
just because something is common it doesn't mean it's right
if everyone started telling two and two made five that wouldn't automatically make it right
and if you know both versions (the right and the common) you can choose which to use
always good to have a choice, right?
Freiburg for president!
notpointed 2 years ago
Stan
I liked the first part of Zeitgeist but when I saw the beginning of the second part and saw that it was 9/11 truther propaganda I wanted to cry. Anyways. I was wondering, because you seem to be so objective about film and star trek series' etc... Why theism? Further more why Catholosism? I'm more intruiged then "putting you on the spot" because most of the theists in my life (why whole family) are so sheep-like never really giving me answers without invoking blind faith.
EfilnikufesinFT 2 years ago
If you're asking me why I think that theism is reasonable, I can answer that by reccomending a book called "How to think about God" by Philosopher Mortimer J Adler.
The question "Why Catholicism?" would require me to go into the many phazes of my life which I can't really do in a comment, and would likely be boring. (lol)
standinstann 2 years ago
I can't find hell house anywhere....
rjbonacolta 2 years ago
it's become almost impossible to find on line
standinstann 2 years ago
It's on netflix if you have a netflix account. :]
Jakezilla829 2 years ago
i felt sorry for the kids in jesus camp
o2theh 2 years ago 2
The people portrayed in those films scare the fuck out of me, too damn religious and over the top
LeonSKennedy828 2 years ago
lol what a coincidence, I just finished watching Zeitgeist and Religulous lol and now you are talking about Jesus Camp - we can have a pretty good conversation about beiliefs =o
Topdisbong 2 years ago
I look forward to watching both :)
NumberNile 2 years ago
I haven't seen Hell House yet, (although I've been to one before), but Jesus Camp made me physically ill. Although, I had to laugh when they visited the completely-heterosexual Ted Haggard. Good intro . . . hopefully your second part is as good.
HentaiGuy42 2 years ago
I liked "Religulous".
KBadtower 2 years ago
I liked it too. I just think that if it had any intention other than making religous people look silly, it failed at it, but it was entertaining none the less.
standinstann 2 years ago
Oh yeah. Bill Maher said himself he wasn't sure wether to call the film a documentary or not, because he thought of it as one of his stand ups.
KBadtower 2 years ago
Stan thank you very much for this segment and for treating the subject material with respect. I am glad to see that someone can see some flaws in a faith and not bash it into oblivion or combine all religions in the same boat, like some in the media do.
Also have you read sfdebris review on Sacred Ground he has an excellent comparison betwween religion and science and how a man of faith can be just as scientific and philisophical as a man who doesn't profess to have any faith in particular.
b1rocky 2 years ago
I haven't read it but I will now. thank you :)
standinstann 2 years ago
Great! A new video! I've been looking forward to this!!!
In your brief snip-it it didn't look like you enjoyed religulous... =/ is this true? What're your thoughts on it? I actually enjoyed the film a lot for what it was. I'm 99% sure I'll be taking your recommendations in the near future
- xXl IMoRTaL lXx
residentevil25 2 years ago
It was really funny, though I didn't understand what the point was.
If it intended to accomplish something other than making religous people look silly, I don't think it did, but I was entertained by it.
standinstann 2 years ago
haha, no I think that was the point tbh haha.
I was definatly taken aback by some of the scenes though...
residentevil25 2 years ago
in that case mission accomplished ;)
standinstann 2 years ago
1st Ill say zeitgeist addendum is way better and more relevant then the first .2nd if you watch a documentary and the music is in the forefront of your attention then youre obviously not paying attention at all. Im too busy listening the narrator and contemplating the subject matter too be distracted by the music. 3rd its impossible for all documentaries to be made in the style of jesus camp. When you have a bunch of nut jobs like that its easy to just point a camera and have no narration.
micronoid 2 years ago
I havn't seen "zeitgeist addendum" but I will. As for paying attention, I did as much as I could weed through the distracting and manipulative sound track. I just don't think it should have been there.
As for your third point, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. But to clarify, I'm not saying that documentaries shouldn't have a narrator, I'm saying that I generaly prefer the experience of just spending time with the people in them.
standinstann 2 years ago
You should definitely check out zeitgeist addendum. And if the music still bugs you (and it really shouldnt because its the last thing you should be worried about) google zeitgeist orientation. That has no music at all except in the opening. And it would be great if you did a video sharing your thoughts on both of these.
micronoid 2 years ago
I will do, thank you!
standinstann 2 years ago
Zeitgeist Addendum is no better. Its first portion, about the federal reserve, is something I agree with but I wouldn't call it unbiased. The movie culminates with a recommendation that's completely out of left field and hardly the only solution to the problems presented by the first and second film, however relevant they were supposed to be.
While it wasn't as blatantly biased as the first, I'd consider it sufficiently absurd. And not just because I disagree with the conclusions.
SeventhHanyou 2 years ago
you're inspiring me to do a review of it :p
I remember the segment about the federal reserve in the first one, and it was true to an extent, but there were so many errors in understanding what the federal reserve is.
There are so many ways in which the federal reserve is not like a bank, and the ways in which it's similer make it an unlikely choice for people to try and make money off of it.
standinstann 2 years ago
Documentaries these days are far from objective and I think if you read the titles of the documentaries on Channel 4 over the years since its inception, you can see them pushing away from hard journalism and spiralling downward with increasing speed toward titillation and shock value.
The entire MMR/autism scare was a WHOLLY media generated story that impacted negatively on the population as a whole.
Not quite the point you're making but yeah, integrity isn't in fashion these days.
ProphetTenebrae 2 years ago
I really want to see your videos on these documentaries. I have seen Hell House on the Documentary Channel and I have seen Jesus Camp on youtube with BigAl2k6's commentary.
theFFVIguy 2 years ago
almost up!
standinstann 2 years ago
I think the point of most documentrary's like the dawkins and stein documentary's are to convey a certain point of view, as it so happens I personally I enjoy the dawkins documentary you cited (though not technically a movie but a t.v series), is that a criticism or an observation on your part...
garydocool 2 years ago
Just an observation, I liked dawkins documentary as well. I didn't agree with him persey, but I like how he approached the people and the subject. Not to mention is was a well made film.
standinstann 2 years ago
Hmmm, the next part sounds iteresting
midprod 2 years ago
In germany this change hasn't happened. I follow the moorestuff but I really gotta say , in europe this is not the case. The documentarys in germany do nearly never force an opinion on you.
Gonna take a look at your recommendations.
Keep it up stan
Goulgag 2 years ago