Noam Chomsky: Wage Slavery is Chattle Slavery

[ajames95]

In addition to the presidential seal, you should have put some corporate logos up as well, because they are the power behind the presidency, as well as, the power that most of us directly serve each day as soon as we show up for work.

[godkingofthepunks]

Power is never legitimate - taking a society's freedom is never legitimate - there can be no power in a free society because to have power over a person you must remove their freedom.

It is not natural human instinct to be ruled or governed - it is human will to be free but we must be made stupid to think that we are free under rule and our will oppressed - it is times of

revolution and awakening of intelligence (A)

[godkingofthepunks]

Nobody would choose to be a slave - having your own business is just owning a job.

Your right - in this system of slavery there is no escape from being a slave thats why those who want to be free are bringing it down.

You are by definition a slave if you dont have your freedom - do you want to be free or do you

want to live under rule ?

[8bobthebuilder]

Nietzsche: "Any man who does not have more than two-thirds of this day to himself is a slave,."

[8bobthebuilder]

He never actually answered the question, "under what circumstances is power legitimate."

[godkingofthepunks]

Would you like to be free or do want to be sold for Labour ? Money is slavery - you are forced to surrender your will and work for money instead - once you can get people to abandon their own free will and work for money who ever controls the money supply controls you - money is the currency of the slave trade - slave dealing is the buying and selling of human labour - do you want to do what you want or do you want to be a slave ? (A)

[8bobthebuilder]

@godkingofthepunks Not everyone has a choice to "do what you want to do or be a slave".............e.g....do the vast majority of citizens have X tens of thousands of dollars to start their own business or secure a loan for such? Even as a capitalist, you still exploit others' labour and are thus part of the system..`wage slavery' is hence inescapable in our current society. even if you are the one who has power.

[Kurtlane]

Everybody else, how is this for a slice of real life? Instead of empty theoretical whining about wage labor.

[godkingofthepunks]

The definition of slave dealing is the buying& selling of human labour!We have been born into slavery& the propaganda system of indoctrination from the state has kept us from realizing this!The same way as it had to keep us from knowing the meaning of the word free!"free;a state of existence exempt from authority,rule or control"-now that the people understand the meaning there will be an unstoppable force to be it which no government will be able to stop !

[Kurtlane]

@godkingofthepunks, right, a revolution. Against big bad daddies forcing us to do homework.

LOL

[prayfertrey]

If you are a slave (to the loan lender; not someone you're just working for) and haven't thought about it, then when someone tells you, you're going to figure that you must have been pretty foolish not to notice; so the ego will furrow it's brows, come over all indignant and look for rationalizations for why such a notion is ridiculous to avoid the conclusion that it's been foolish. And if you try to explain this, the reactionary's ego will deflect it by deciding that you're being condescending.

[Kurtlane]

Comparisons of this type are heinous. They are offensive not only to victims of real slavery, but to all decent human beings.

[buzzin1975]

@Kurtlane Hey, give this retarded Jew a chance. All he's saying is that there's different kinds of slavery. One kind is where you sell yourself, and therefore are permanently a slave, and the other where you rent yourself, and therefore are temporarily a slave. Of course, the former kind of slavery is a lot worse, but both are types of slavery nonetheless.

[Kurtlane]

@buzzin1975, I am a Jew.

Your attitude is not appreciated.

[buzzin1975]

@Kurtlane Tough, get used to it.

[Kurtlane]

@buzzin1975m I am very used to it. Ever since I was born, those like you have been getting me used to it. Giving me their endless barrage of hate. Stalking me. Spitting on me. Urinating on me. Beating me. Making me called my relatives to find out whether they've survived the latest Palestinian "martyrdom."

(cont.)

[Kurtlane]

I survived it all, even as a little kid, and became all the stronger for it. So have my people. We withstood 2,000 years of hell, and returned and built our own country. And it's a great country, no matter what garbage you and Noam Chomsky try to sell about it. There is strength in us Jews those like you will never understand.

Let me be clear, because some of your hating type mistake even this for whining. I am not complaining. Just the opposite: I am defiant.

(cont.)

[Kurtlane]

I wonder what would be the case if things were reversed and you were subjected to all that I was subjected to. How soon would you break?

In 13th century BCE, Pharaoh Merneptah wrote, "Israel lies waste, its seed no longer exists."

33 centuries later, we still exist. And where is Merneptah?

Wherever he is, that's where you and Nooam Chomsky will be. And we will be around.

Get used to it.

Am Israel Chai!

The Jewish Nation Lives!

[Kurtlane]

@buzzin1975, I must say, though, that I'd love for Noam Chomsky himself to hear what you have called him.

For all his ass-licking of Hezbollah and Hamas and who knows who else, for all his genuflections to the "Palestinian cause," for all the damage that he has been doing to Jews, this Jew-hating Jew still remains just a "retarded Jew" to those whose asses he kisses. I'd love to see the expression on his face when he is informed of that.

As for me, you chose the wrong target, baby.

[Kurtlane]

God, what a thorough idiot Chomsky is.

How can anyone take this bs seriously?

Does he really mean there was no wage labor in pre-industrial US?

Wage labor goes back to time immemorial. Even before there was money, people were paid in grain. That too was wage labor.

Farmers too work to sell their produce. Not all that different from wage labor.

(cont.)

[Kurtlane]

And Chomsky doesn't propose anything specific. Just general romantic blah-blah and rehashed eternal old-people complaints that young people are too materialistic.

All this nonsense crowned with word "slavery." Slavery my ass. If every mosquito byte is rape, every rape becomes mosquito byte. The result: real rape is minimized and ignored.

If everything is slavery, nothing is slavery. The result: real slavery is minimized and ignored.

(cont.)

[Kurtlane]

This is slavery, that is slavery, everything is slavery. I guess Civil War in America was about nothing.

Another one of those professors who say, "Well, breastfeeding is really cannibalism."

Wage labor is slavery, mosquito byte is rape (it's penetration), marriage is prostitution and breastfeeding is cannibalism.

OK, whatever, professor.

[shaneytiger]

You brought the rape and the cannibalism out of absolutely nowhere, and while I can see the point you're trying to make, they didn't have any place in this argument and you only used them to confuse and further dramatize the issue and what we were talking about specifically.

You're confusing wage labor (you work under an employer) with work/barter (you trade goods and services with an employer). You're also saying that by comparing the two types of slavery, he's saying they're equivalent. cont.

[shaneytiger]

The idea that there is only one type, or one quality, of slavery is incorrect - in fact, you proved it to be incorrect when you yourself wrote about your own experiences with a "milder slavery" in Brazil. There are differences, and him pointing out a form of slavery (wherein a worker is FORCED to continue working for an employer on threat of bankruptcy [death] because the gap between his wages and his necessary expenditures is shrinking) is not saying they are the same or are equal.

[Kurtlane]

@shaneytiger, sorry that you missed my point. The point is that saying wage labor is slavery is as insane as saying all those other things. The attitude and the justification for all of these are all the same.

Yes, there are different kinds of slavery. But wage labor is not yet another kind of slavery. It's not slavery at all. The distinction is fundamental, because without it everything falls apart: real slavery becomes no big deal, while basic hiring of a worker becomes a crime.

(cont.)

[Kurtlane]

Comparisons of this type are heinous. They are offensive not only to victims of slavery, but to all decent human beings.

Recently on another youtube site I discovered yet another idiocy: "we are all farm animals." The arguments used to support that are very similar to the aruments used here: "There are different kinds of farms," etc.

Here is another one of those: universe is a jail. Try to prove it's not. But what comes from such attitude? Loads of whining, nothing else.

[Kurtlane]

You want to see real slavery, Noam?

Take a good look:

Modern day slavery and genocide

watch?v=vjmPVwG5jAk

Slave Trading - Sudan

watch?v=L_PB0lg2TSc

The male slaves are castrated. Just for starters.

Maybe you will shut your yap after you are castrated. Just for starters.

[shaneytiger]

@Kurtlane Those are only two examples of a certain kind of chattel slavery, which isn't a very good source of evidence and isn't a very good response to his point. In fact, you didn't respond to his point, you just insulted him and told him he should be castrated. Great level of maturity.

[Kurtlane]

shaneytiger, the videos speak for themselves.

I don't think I need to add much.

And yes, I know this is chattel slavery, which is the worst kind of slavery, the only slavery traditionally called "slavery." I've seen other, milder slavery with my own eyes when I visited Brazil. I didn't like that either.

Chomsky's speech is an insult to all slaves in the world. It's also an insult to human intelligence.

[shaneytiger]

The two types of slavery function similarly, even if chattel slavery is more explicitly, gratuitously violent. The bitter cycle that wage slavery creates is much more subtle and much less immediately horrifying - but since the area of oppression is on a mental and not a physical scale, it is not instantly, viscerally seen as what it is; because of that it is harder to understand and to avoid. He didn't say that chattel slavery is better or easier than wage slavery - he just compared the two.

[Kurtlane]

shaneytiger, if everything is slavery, nothing is slavery.

As they say, open your mind, but not so much that the brain falls out.

This is the point where intellectual theory leads one so far astray, one has to either leave it or kill oneself. Hopefully, only oneself.

I mean, should we now outlaw "wage slavery" and make millions of people out of work starving to death?

And how does Chom-chom earn his money?

What an idiot.

[shaneytiger]

He didn't say that everything was slavery and neither have I. Look up wage slavery on Wikipedia and then get back to me; there's not enough space in these comment boxes to fill in your blanks.

Chomsky is an advocate of a type of society known as Anarcho-Syndicalism which doesn't involve wage slavery.

Chomsky makes his money, so it would seem to me, by a combination of writing books and giving lectures. He doesn't work for any one person. He isn't renting himself to a corporation or business.

[Kurtlane]

shaneytiger, I've read about half of the wikipedia entry. It has only given me support for my view.

How and why is too long to discuss.

But it also quotes Frederick Douglass declaring "Now I am my own master" when he took a paying job. This is my approach.

Overall, wouldn't someone like Frederick Douglass, who has expoerienced both chattel slavery and wage labor, be the best person to judge?

(cont.)

[Kurtlane]

Chomsky is an advocate of utopia. And what underlines all advocates of utopias is their inability to accept life. In other words, a death wish. This is why those why try to implement utopias bring distopias.

Chomsky is a professor at MIT. He is, or was, getting a salary, i.e. a wage.

I also don't see how earning money from books and lectures fundamentally differs from getting a wage.

[shaneytiger]

He isn't an advocate of utopia - he's an advocate of a form of society. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would work to balance itself naturally.

Yes, you're right. He may be struggling financially right now, too (though I doubt that, being that he is a world-renowned writer and lecturer).

It differs in that you are not getting payed for your time to perform actions, you are getting payed for specific goods and services that you deliver. The amount of time that went into them is meaningless.