"Kyae Say Taman", Myanmar Classic Music, piano version by Sandaya Aung Win

[SpiritualDimensionX]

Nice finger work. how about some rock and roll?

[ngazinyine]

ma pyay det Oh: baung bin hka tal det. ;)

[jimsykes7]

I find this conversation extremely insulting. Clearly, the Burmese music has its own aesthetics which should be respected. If one wants to explore combining harmony that is all well and good, but let's please refrain from acting like music with harmony is somehow 'better' than that without it.  There is no need to use this forum to impress people with your knowledge of Western music theory. How about appreciating the musician in the video?

[gottuvadyam]

@MMAsings: What a Eurocentric comment! There's more to the world's music than those of Bach, Mozard, Beethoven, etc. -- music of dead white men!!!

[MMAsIngs]

@gottuvadyam

I am not Eurocentric. I love all kind of music- just look at videos on my channel. Your comment about Bach, Mozart and Beethoven is so pathetic and stomach-churning that as a Myanmar

I am really ashamed about a fellow Myanmar.

[toetoe821]

ဆရာခင္ဗ်ာ ကြ်န္ေတာ္ဟာ ဆရာပညာကိုေလးစားေနတဲ ့သူျဖစ္ျပီး ပညာကိုသင္ယူေနတဲ ့အေဝးေရာက္ျမန္မာတစ္ေယာက္ျဖစ္ပါ­တယ္ ျဖစ္နိုင္ရင္ဆရာတီးကြက္ေတြကို အေနွးေလးနဲ ့တီး လို ့ရရင္ တီးေပးပါခင္ဗ်ာ ေလ ့လာလို ့ရေအာင္လို ့ပါ ျပီးေတာ ့ျမန္မာ ့စနၵယား အေျခခံ ေတြကိုလဲတင္ေပးေစခ်င္ပါသည္ခင္ဗ်­ား

[bodomar47]

Music in Burma will evolve. There is no such thing as a fixed traditional style. Cultures do influence each other. Even in Europe, ancient Greek music was probably quite different from Beethoven (I don't know for sure) and good musicians experiment and discover.

In my humble opinion, Burmese piano sounds a bit of like "Debussy" played on xylophones in a certain jazzy style. Btw, a piano (in contrast to an organ) is actually sort of a "percussion" instrument (strings are struck by a hammer)

[JustinGyi]

Who cares what westerners say? It's not their culture or their music. Arrogance is not becoming artists. This art takes years to master and reflects the culture of a people older than the teutons (and more refined).

[KMYIN1000]

@JustinGyi You might not care but I do. I want the world ( who is talking about westerners?) to appreciate our beautiful music. To do that, the beautiful myanmar melody will have to be clothed in beautiful harmony and arrangement.( who is talking about discarding our music like old furnitue?) Piano is a wonderful instrument. Mozart wrote wonderful variation on twinkle twinkle little star( Ah vous dirai je piano variation). Dont you want to hear for eg a piano variation on a myanmar song?

[KMYIN1000]

@tyftmusic

Please note that like pianist1501, I am not criticising Sandaya Aung Win. He is a great pianist and plays extremely well the traditional way in spite of the quaint, 200 yeras old method of fiingering. My comments are only about the traditional myanmar piano playing , where the left hand is in the treble clef most of the time and not in the bass clef playing accompaniment and the quaint method of piano fingering.. I hope that SAW can lead in modernising myanmar piano music

[JustinGyi]

@KMYIN1000 Mordernising to what? Western methods?

[KMYIN1000]

@JustinGyi Modernising. 1 Myanmar piano music has never been in the mainstream. No piano solo on radio or TV. We need to make myanmars aware of the beauty of solo piano music. 2 To present our beautiful music in different harmonisations, arrangements so that the world takes notice of our music. Suppose some myanmar pianist write a fantasia on a theme of hlat pan kwe nwe yodaya and if it becomes popular as Schubert's wanderer phantasia, that means modernising.

[JustinGyi]

@KMYIN1000 Mordernising to what? Western methods?

I find that your words are akin to colonialization - impose your culture and will on the culture of others. This music has a proud and long heritage and not comething to be discarded like old used furniture!

[KMYIN1000]

@JustinGyi

Wake up my friend. The age of colonisation is long past. Cross fertilization of culture and music , I would say, happens all over the world and it enriches. If you lived at the time when myanmar musicians started composing yodaya thachin gyi imitating the captive Thai musicians from Ayodhaya, you would have been shouting that our culture has been imposed upon by Thailand. Modernising, grafting what is good in other culture into your own culture is a sign of good healhy culture.

[JustinGyi]

@KMYIN1000 Burmese music has its own melody and rhythms - and introducing germanic themes, IMHO, is removing the "essential truth" from Burmese classical music. Saying that the music is quaint is, i think, is showing disrespect for the music - and arrogance that someone's musical sensibilities are better. Would you call "Ein stuck fur Anfanger" quaint? We may not have any tunes out there - but remember that than-jat precedes rap. Perhaps a more lasting contribution to the west.

[KMYIN1000]

@JustinGyi You should brush up your knowledge of music history. I was talking about clothing myanmar music in beautiful harmony. You think harmony Germanic?

Harmony started with vocal music in church and initially used the perfect intervals for harmony. The first written music with harmony was written in France, not Germany. The practice of using the 3rd and 6th started in England, not Germany. The first keyboard music with harmony was written by Italians like Frescobaldi ect. To be continued.

[KMYIN1000]

@JustinGyi Thank God you were not consistent. Otherwise you would be saying that we have pattala and saing waing and we do not need a western invention like piano. Most modern Chinese composers now use western harmony in their music. Know music by Tang Dan? Chinese music with western harmony. Chinese traditional music is still healthy in spite of westernised ways of expressing their music and we need pioneers like him in Myanmar to take our rich music culture to the world.

[MMAsIngs]

@JustinGyi

How can introducing harmony remove the essential CHARACTER of Burmese music? Myanmar melody and rhythm will remain the same , but will be more beautiful with beautiful harmony. What Germanic themes? You do not seem to know what you are talking about.

[pianist1501]

@JustinGyi There is no such thing as German style. The style of German music reflect the period . Schultz wrote in the style of early baroque and Bach wrote in the style of late baroque. Haydn and Beethoven wrote in the style of classical period. Mendensohnn wrote in romantic style of his period. Schoenberg, Webern wrote in the experimental atonal, serial music style ect. There is no such thing as German style- German music is so varied. And western music is not just Germanic.

[JustinGyi]

@KMYIN1000 Burmese music has its own melody and rhythms - and introducing germanic themes, IMHO, is removing the "essential truth" from Burmese classical music. Saying that the music is quaint is, i think, is showing disrespect for the music - and arrogance that someone's musical sensibilities are better. Would you call "Ein stuck fur Anfanger" quaint? We may not have any tunes out there - but remember that than-jat precedes rap. Perhaps a more lasting contribution to the west.

[KMYIN1000]

@JustinGyi You should learn the nuances of English language. Quaint does not have any connotation of disrespect. Westerners find plainchant quaint and beautiful. I, who love songs by Ma Kyi Aung and Ma Aye Mi, find their style of singing quaint and charming. I did not use old-fashioned ,out-dated etc . I was talking about the system of fingering 200 years old, not about music. Stuke für Anfänger- I will not find it quaint, just simple and easy for instructional purpose.

[KMYIN1000]

@JustinGyi That some people have better musical sensibility than others IS A FACT OF LIFE. I know that my musical sensibility is bound to be much inferior to that of Myoma Nyein, Beethoven or even lots of non-musicians. On the other hand, I am bound to have better sensibility than those who do not appreciate music other than rap. You are bound to have better musical sensibility than those who only listen to simple songs and do not appreciate Kyae sae taman. If you agree, thats not arrogance.

[pianist1501]

@JustinGyi Nobody was talking about changing myanmar melody and rhythm, only putting in harmony and how can it remove the essential truth from music? Introducing Germanic themes- you do not believe we are proposing putting a theme from German music like 'ode to the joy' into myanmar music? I am sure you were talking about German music style - but there is no such thing as German style.There are music written in the manner of Mozart as à la Mozart but will never see à la musique Allemand. TBC

[JustinGyi]

@KMYIN1000 @KMYIN1000 I think we are discussing two things. Evolution and culture. China, for example, has evolved and its music is varied and complex. However no one would expect a Chinese melody to be anything but Chinese - only in some experimental context would Germanic influences be introduced. Therefore Chinese music is recognizable (and appreciated) within the context of Chinese culture and history. The same goes for German music. The same for Greek or Spanish ....etc. (continued)

[KMYIN1000]

@JustinGyi continued. The 1st theoretical work on harmony was by a French musician Rameau. To say western music as Germanic is laughable. Western music evolved with contributions from all major European countries, not just Germany. And we Myanmars use western harmony.All modern day songs with guitar are being harmonised western way by rhythm guitar. Songs by May Shin, Pyi Hla Pe ect ( most myanmar muic) were harmonised western style. Only myanmar solo piano surprisingly does not use harmony.

[BunnyKaboom]

Wow....it's so beautiful music.

Honestly, I love myanmar piano music this way more than if it were mixed with harmony. This is pure-bred myanmar music. If it were mixed with western harmony, it wouldn't feel as pure and traditional as this one. It'd be like "yaw-tha-ma-hmway". In some cases that'd work well, but in other cases (like this one, when the music is a piano-solo), it's better this way; just my 2 cents :)

[KMYIN1000]

@BunnyKaboom

You like piano being played like a pattala, not utilising the piano's capability of harmony and sustaining pedal. I hope you do not drive your car slowly like a Myanmar bullock cart and do not utilise your car's capability..

Your offer of mon hingar with chowder sounds interesting.I will certainly try it. I am for new experiments, new ways of expressing myanmar music - not stuck in Konebaung era like you. It would be interesting to hear pure myanmar music with harmony .

[zrshwe]

@KMYIN1000

Please do not forget that even in Western piano music, there are different styles- contrapuntal Baroque music, highly organised classical music, romantic piano music with use of sustaining pedals not to mention jazz piano etc. Our traditional piano music, as admirably and beautifully played by Sandaya Aung Win is a distinctive Myanmar style. If you get rid of the pre-conceptions you will have to admit that it is wonderful piano music. Just listen and enjoy our traditional style.

[JustinGyi]

@zrshwe Thank you very much for this comment! I wish I had said it this way.

[zrshwe]

@JustinGyi Thanks. I hope people would just listen and enjoy this beautiful charming Myanmar traditional style beautifully played by Ko Aung Win. Myanmar style brings out the melody beautifully and Ko Aung Win can make the piano really sing. People must realise that in western music there are great solo instrumental music without harmony. J S Bach's partita for solo violin and solo cello suites are considered great achievements of western music- but there is no harmony. So is our piano music.

[zrshwe]

@KMYIN1000

Just one more point. I do not think sustaining pedal is necessary for this style of music. Although you would be using the pedal for Chopin's music, you would not use it for most of Baroque music.Also nothing wrong with playing like a pattala. Bela Bartok sometimes treated the piano like a percussion instrument. Before you reply to me, please remember I am also for trying different ways of playing myanmar music but our traditional style has an important place in our music culture.

[tyftmusic]

Contd.. As per Sherlock Holmes, nothing is new under the Sun. More than 22 years ago,a pianist with 1st name Sandaya played Myanmar classics & songs in Western styles, harmonization, multiple lines of melody, melody on Rt & left base, ending with chords, you name it. What's his fate?. He was banned, barred, his songs stopped broadcasting in BBS and everything bad happened to him. That incident still haunts Myanmar pianists with nightmares. May be it is OK now.

May I enjoy your piano, please.

[zrshwe]

@tyftmusic

What is the name of that pianist? In stead of instigating him, he should have been applauded for his innovation. His piano music available at all? Tin Tin Mya's thachin gyis with Sandaya Mg Ko Ko's piano accompaniment were not broadcasted on BBS after old musicians complained. I am sure tha tif Ko Aung Win start playing thachin gyis with innovative harmony, there will be some myanmars complaining. But presenting our music culture in a different light is worth doing, I think.

[tyftmusic]

@zrshwe Can't name now, for his privacy, perhaps one day. Sure, you heard about it. Of course, these pianists have been trying to develop different versions every single day, like yourself. They just don't publish it. Here, the great thing about Sandaya was he sat in the focus of video camera and played once. Then uploaded into Youtube.That's it. Just once. If he played again, it will not be the exact similar but the same quality. His show will be in Dec, New York. Please join us. TKU

[tyftmusic]

@zrshwe & pianist 1501 Ref: Original taste & flavor. eg. When you play "Country Road" the taste(Yat Tha) is Nostalgia (a country road near Shenandoah river & blue ridge mountains, you'll really missed that place in W Virginia, 8-10 hours drive from NY), played in country style made nostalgic. John Denver made me cry.

Copied by 'SOE PAING'S' " Kisses in Garden of Eden"...Taste (Yat Tha) is sadness from broken heart, loss of love, burning heart etc. Oh my God! Soe Paing made me sad..

sad 2BContd

[tyftmusic]

@zrshweContd, Country Road & Kisses in Eden, J Denver made me cry & Soe Paing, sadness. The same melody with different tempos, instruments, strokes words etc. lift up vocal, lead to different taste & flavor. Tain Ta Man, begins with sound of thunder by SAW & so on, lead to nostalgia. Audience are taken back to the past & cry. SAW played last night for us both Country Road & Kisses in Eden, different taste. ThenTain TaMan came in harmony, left base & multimelodies lines, no one recognize it 2BC

[KMYIN1000]

@tyftmusic

What is te connection between this video and Country road and Soe Paing? I do not understand.

[tyftmusic]

@zrshwe So therefore, as long as the original taste(so called Yat Tha) remains the same or even better, why not, we'll do it. I've so many clips to show as examples. Even if we develop it, when & where should we present it. Just playing in original styles create some debates. Out of ordinary would be exponential. Are we ready? I will present you the reasons no one impressed Myanmar piano and why we gain the attention now. Thank you all. It was fun but loss of sleep. Good night.

[KMYIN1000]

@tyftmusic Since you commented that myanmar fingering makes playing quicker I have looked at this video. In the history of fingering early keyboard instruments were played with 4 fingers, rarely using the thumb. When Christofori invented the piano in 1700, fingering changed to use the new instrument. J S Bach used treated the thumb equally and he passed the thumb under other fingers. With J S Bach, Couperin and C P E Bach, modern fingering started. To be continued in next comment.

[KMYIN1000]

@tyftmusic Now the modern fingering uses the thumb as equal partner and the thumb to pass under other fingers to continue playing the higher note with the right hand and lower note with the left hand. No other finger passes over or under any other finger. When I looked at this video, although Ko Aung Win used the thumb, his thumb never passed under other fingers.It is a very quaint fingering method and I do not see how this fingering can make one play quicker. TO BE CONTINED IN NEXT COMMENT.

[KMYIN1000]

@tyftmusic

Research has shown that early music up to early Baroque music can be played with earlier fingering method. But to play music from late Baroque music J S Bach's onwards, modern fingering is necessary. Burma has been isolated for a long time. China and Japan had closed the door to western influence before, but they have changed quite a while ago. In this age in which information spreads easily through internet, Myanmar piano music is bound to change sooner or later

[pianist1501]

@tyftmusic . In this internet age Myanmar youths will encounter western piano music with harmony and younger generation might find the traditional myanmar piano music strange and lacking in harmony. Ko Shun Myaing wrote in his book that when he was asked to sight-read Beethoven's Für Elise by a Russian examiner for scholarship selection, he has never heard it before. It cannot happen anymore in this internet age. We need to modernise our piano music for the next generation of Myanmars.

[tyftmusic]

@pianist1501 I accept your points well. Thanks

[pianist1501]

@tyftmusic

Thanks. I have reviewed my comments and I was a bit insensitive in taking Sandaya Aung Win as an example to critiicise the myanmar way of piano playing. I am sorry if i gave that impression, He is a great pianist. My comments were against the style and not his piano playing. I just want myanmar pianists to experiment with western harmony as well. After these discussions, I agree with zrshwe as well that both traditional style as well as westernised style should flourish in Myanmar.

[tyftmusic]

@pianist1501 For me, apology is not necessary. Positive criticism like yours is what we needs. Your above statement touched our hearts. I discussed with SAW in length last night. For the record, he has 2 reasons to post: 1. For his FaceBook's "Sing With Me Program", so that people can sing with(in lieu of Karaoke) 2. To maintain culture, taste and flavor of the originals. Now criticism and debates which are more than we expected and made his works take off.

SAW's message for you.2B continued

[tyftmusic]

@pianist1501Contd. SAW's message to you. To my request, he will try to present you in 2 weeks with his Solo Myanmar piano together with Western Orchestra. We halt uploading due to debates. Now,to pacify hundreds of calls and emails, we 'll post "Tet Catho Kyaung Thu Ta Oo" in 3 days then "Moe" (Rain) next week. Future talks, Ko Shun Myaing(writer,not painist), 3 Russians scholars, Soe Moe(CA, USA) Sandaya U Ni Ni & Saw Nu. Different styles playing Loose taste(Yat Tha) of originals. Thank you

[tyftmusic]

I totally agree that we will not lose our culture by playing piano in western style. However, where is our culture? We've lost it all already. We all are displaced. May I ask who is promoting it? It is a really a sad thing. Countries like Japan and Korea etc. keep maintaining their culture and then augment their music in different styles. In that 2 steps, where is our first step to keep our culture steady.

We have heritage to keep first. All we have is Sandaya who can penetrate with his music.

[zrshwe]

@tyftmusic In this age of internet, all countries lose a bit of their culture. Young people all over the world become more or less similar in their tastes. I would not worry about losing our culture. Our culture and musical heritage are strong enough so that it will continue. Lots of myanmar youths listen to Myanmar rap music. but there will always be some who like our traditional music and our best songs will last long after the new rap music is forgotten.

[zrshwe]

Can I say that music is better enjoyed than debated about. For myself I really enjoy Ko Aung Win's piano version. Such brilliance in playing, in touch, singing piano tone and phrasing. I love it and listen to this severa times a day. He is a great pianist and if later if he decide to upload piano music with western style harmony, he will be brilliant as well. It is better to learn to enjoy different styles of music rather than saying one style is better than the other.

[MISTERMORNE]

@zrshwe as far as I am concerned, I am not trying to debate, just wondering whether this song will not change too much from the essence of what it is when we try to harmonise it too much?

[zrshwe]

@MISTERMORNE

I am happy that you think that our traditional way of piano playing has a place. I myself believe that the traditional style as well as western style should co-exist.

Maybe some of the music will need a genius transcriber like Liszt to retain the character. It reminds me that when Liszt saw Beethoven's symphony 7 score, he played it on he piano just looking at the orchestral score. And the best part was that Richard Wagner was dancing to the music. Nickname- symphony of the dance.

[MISTERMORNE]

@zrshwe whoo-hoo, this video might win a prize for "most discussed" on youtube, LOL

[tyftmusic]

@MISTERMORNE Thank you, I agree," the most discussed" based on numbers watched/comments ratio. But quite a fruitful discussions. Good for Myanmar music. It also pushed me away from my computer due to fear of viewing repercussions. Some are brutal and very articulate. How about if I invite you all in New York when SAW plays solo. A group is organizing to come up with. Thanks to all who spoke up. Thank you for the Music/tyftmusic

[MISTERMORNE]

If you listen to the music (gershwin concert part 3- on youtube with Martha Argerich), take away the orchestra, would you say the piano is playing harmony or rhythm??

[MISTERMORNE]

Gershwin's harmonies were unique. I'm not referring to Porgie and Bess. I'm more thinking of the rhythmic qualities in Gershwin and Ravel's piano concerts. Not the orchestrated works of Gershwin, but the piano parts. But still you don;t just try to add harmony to music like this just for the sake of Westernising it, not this specific style, unless you want to stick your head into a hornets nest. It's just too fast. Although composers like Rachmaninoff was able to, but it's rather complex

[MISTERMORNE]

I am sorry to have to say that one does not try to harmonise music like this. It does, in fact remind me of modern music by composers like Ravel. In fact, there is more rhythm than melody in this song - you do not try to harmonise it- it is a specific form ans style that is in fact very similar to the styles presented by post modernistic composers in the times of Gershwin and Ravel. And for anyone who wants to disagree, first take a look at works of Ravel

[pianist1501]

@MISTERMORNE

Gershwin's famous works, Rhapsodie in blue, Piano concerto in F and his opera Porgie and Bess, certainly used western harmonisation. Revel in his Piano concerto for the left hand, Bolero and solo piano music and other orchestral music and songs certainly used Western harmonisation- his harmonisation may be quirky but still western harmonisation. Since these two composers you mentioned wrote some jazz influenced music, are you talking about rhythym rather than harmonisation?

[MISTERMORNE]

@pianist1501 BTW, you said it yourself, Ravel's harmonies sound (I quote) "quirky", in his piano concerts- I'm merely observing this, not trying to initiate a debate. Point is: this is hard to just add some harmony to, just for the sake of harmony. And when I use the term harmony, i mean, real, full chords to lets say a piano piece for two hands. Look, the pianist's hands are both already quite busy in this video, how much more can we add for the sake of harmony?

[pianist1501]

@MISTERMORNE

Yes his both hands are busy just sharing the melody line. Listen to some of Beethoven's piano sonatas. Some are quicker than this with more notes but the right hand is used for melody and still the left hand playing chords or counter melody as well. In piano playing the left hand is used only very rarely to play melody. Or listen to J S Bach's very quick music with lots of notes and left hand harmony.

[MISTERMORNE]

@pianist1501 We should not forget that some pieces are written for four hands. Perhaps if one wants to add more harmony here the music should be transcribed for tow pianos? Just a thought ;-)

[pianist1501]

@MISTERMORNE

But all Beethoven's sonata and J S Bach's music, which are very quick with a lot more notes, were not for 4 hands. They were just for a single pianist. You might be thinking of Dvorak's and Bizet's piano duets rather than the music i talked about.

[MISTERMORNE]

@pianist1501 It is not the number of hands, the number of notes, but the interval that make the western harmony different from Myanmar music. A full chord in western harmony, e.g in choral singing often requires at least three notes in harmony, or even four, hence the SATB placement of notes in choral pieces. Some composers added notes in unison. And in some traditional music different sounds are simply added, rhythmically, sometimes in unison (eighths). But that is a different form of harmony

[pianist1501]

@MISTERMORNE

You missed the point. Because you said that he was playing so quick and so many notes the left hand wount be able to play harmony. I countered that in Beethoven's and Bach's quicker piano music, although the right hand was playing a lot of notes in quick sucession the left hand still puts in harmony notes, chords and counter-melody. Western piano harmony is like SATB actually because harmony originated from choral music and early composers imitated the SATB on harpsichord music.

[pianist1501]

@MISTERMORNE

Well piano concerto with orchestra is different. Not being the only instrument , the orchestra can take care of harmonisation. Even then if you listen to all of Ravel's concerto, you will hardly hear just a single note at any time. At least 2 or 3 notes simultaneously are played even if it is not a full chord. I have never come across Ravel's solo piano music with just a melody line with no accompaniment. If you know one please tell me and i will look at the score.

[pianist1501]

Another point. Melody and rhythm are what make Myanmar music distinct. Harmony is an adornment and putting harmony on the piano will not make the music less of myanmar music since the melody and rhythm remain unchanged. When Puccini used some Japanese music in his opera Madame Butterfly, people still recognise the Japanese music although it was harmonised western style. When Bartok collected his native Hungarian folk music he published them as piano score with harmonisation (not just melody).

[pianist1501]

For those who say Myanmar music should be kept pure, here is a food for thought. When Sandaya Mg Ko Ko played brilliant piano accompaniment to thachin gyis like Yamonar sung by Tin Tin Mya, some Myanmars said that they should not be sung with piano accompaniment since piano is a western instrument, they should only be sung with traditional instruments. If you accept the piano in Myanmar music you must accept western harmonisation as well. I am afraid that you can not have the cake and eat it.

[tyftmusic]

Thanks for quality comments on behalf of all our Myanmar music lovers. I agree to have Myanmar music made more beautiful and acceptable to all. I think this is a good start, maintain the back bone first., then western versions. Anyone ever wonders "where was Sandaya Aung Win playing before he appeared as such?". Were you there in Broadway when Sandaya was playing in "Miss Saigon"? After all those years staying low profile, why he popped up for what cause? To be continued....TKU

[pianist1501]

@tyftmusic We will not lose our culture just because the pianists start playing myanmar piano music with western harmony. The Japanese folk song Sakura is played with traditional instruments, piano with harmonisation and orchestra. In any form, it does not lose the Japanese character. The Japanese,unlike some Myanmars, do not say that harmony is a western thing and since it did not exist in eastern music before, it should not be played with harmony on piano.

[pianist1501]

I can also imagine that this music will sound even more beautiful if he puts in harmony as well. It will not make the music less of Myanmar music, but on the other hand the rich harmonisation from the bass in the left hand will enrich and make the music more beautiful. Wake up you Myanmars. You want Myanmar music made more beautiful and acceptable to foreigners, don't you?

[pianist1501]

I want to dispel some misunderstanding of my comments. They were not a criticism of Sandaya Aung Win who is a brilliant pianist and produces beautiful sounds of the melody. I also know he was playing piano in a traditional way like on pattala and myanmar harp (before piano was invented). My criticism was against that myanmar way of playing the piano without harmony and not utilising the piano's capability.

[KMYIN1000]

I must agree with MMAsings. With the modern globalisation, why do the myanmar pianists still play like in the age of Myawadi Mingyi U Sa? I know harmony is a western invention and does not exist in eastern music. But the modern eastern musicians, Japanese, Chinese, Korea etc now play piano with harmonisation. Ony the myanmar pianists play like this Do the myanmar pianists want to play for the myanmar audience only?

[MMAsIngs]

Please do not get me wrong. You play extremely well the myanmar way. But since i get used to western music as well, i can hear the harmony missing. Even the western non-musicians will think the same. Even the beginner in the west are taught to play with left hand counterpoints. Maybe, myanmar pianists should start playing with harmony notes to be acceptable to westerners. Myanmar way of piano playing,however quick you play, the westerners will always say that it is played with one hand only.

[pianist1501]

@MMAsIngs

Yes i agree. if you listen to keyboard music by Bach,Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert and all other great pianists, hardly ever that only one note is played at a time like in myanmar piano. When a note is played in the melody line, simultaneously a few harmonising notes are played as well making a rich texture. But myanmar piano music, most of the time only one note at a time is played , and usually only the melody line, the texture is paper thin. Myanmar musicians will need to change.

[MISTERMORNE]

@pianist1501 - Take this from my "Western ear"- traditional Myanmar music has a place right there the way that it is. It reminds me of what some of the modern composers did when they started improvising on a level where music is not just about traditional "Bach-style" harmonies. I believe that it is the speed that this music is played that is the flowing thread, the pianist's skill to make it move. There are some people who would appreciate it this way, uncompromised. Just an opinion, of course

[pianist1501]

@MISTERMORNE

Can I ask your honest opinion. If you do not look at the pianist's hands, would you say that this music sound like it is played with just one hand. When i played myanmar piano music to English friends, they asked why myanmar piano music is played with just one hand. And thats from people who are not musicians and not one person but several people.

[MISTERMORNE]

@pianist1501 Well, I am LOOKING at two hands playing. How can I say it sounds like one hand? If anyone plays this music and makes it sound like one hand, perhaps they are playing too slow? I can play in octaves and some would think it is playing with one hand, perhaps. Honestly, people who do not know how piano is played say the darndest things. Let me put this another way to you. The harmony that often accompanies western music is usually done in interval of thirds and fifths.

[pianist1501]

@MISTERMORNE

Ha ha. You WERE being very diplomatic. Looking at two hands playing,( indeed that phrase gives it away)- yes everybody can see it. Yes, if there were thirds and fifths or V7 played with the left hand, instead of playing part of the melody only, it will sound like playing with 2 hands.,

[zrshwe]

@pianist1501 Different aspects of music- melody, rhythm and harmony can exist on their own. African drum music is only rhythm, without melody and harmony. The very origin of music when people started singing and playing instruments started without harmony. Melody and rhythm without harmony like in our traditional piano music is also very beautiful. Even in the west harmony is a relatively new thing- originated about 400 years ago. Please realise music can be beautiful with or without harmony.

[patrickcharm123]

@pianist1501 I, respectfully, disagree with you. If Mozart was that good, he should have been so much popular and accepted by people at tht time. But of'course, you and I both know the story.

Please learn to play that one melody line before you judge burmese musicians to change. Because you'll see that this melody is extremely difficult for you to play and totally out of your content. I dare you to try. Please learn more abt international music. Cheers, mate! =)

[pianist1501]

@patrickcharm123

Please , I do not want to have discussion with someone who think that Mozart is not that good and single line piano music better than multiple line music. Yes, I have played single line melody many years ago when I was a beginner but have moved on since then. You yourself . if you hear J S Bach's contrapuntal piano music with multiple melody line going on at the same time, you will be lost and will say Bach is not good. You can reply what you like, but I will not reply.

[zrshwe]

@MMAsIngs

I love the way Ko Aung Win plays, this is what I heard when I was a kid and I love it. In my opinion, 2 types of playing, the Myanmar way and Western way with harmonisation can exist side by side. The advantage of the western way is, in addition to making Myanmar piano music acceptable to foreigners, that it can be harmonised in different ways and make the music your own with your own harmonisation.

[pianist1501]

@zrshwe

I agree that both traditional style and western style should co-exist. Traditional style with only the melody line is just like a girl of raw beauty without make up and beautiful dress. Surrounded by beautiful harmony, it is like a girl made more beautiful by make up and beautiful dresses. For those who like traditional style, this is very good. But for those of us who want to see a beaytiful girl in different dresses, we should have myanmar piano music with harmonisation as well.

[zrshwe]

@MMAsIngs

I have my doubts whether harmonising the traditional piano style will work. Possibly it will have to be arranged differently for harmonisation. I would love to have our traditional style as a distinctive style. But I agree that harmony should be tried maybe with a different arrangement. Western-influenced Myanmar songs will sound well with harmonisation, but pure myanmar song like this one, I dont know whether harmonising will work. I will be interested to know if anyone has tried it.

[patrickcharm123]

@MMAsIngs Harmony is not missing. Left hand counterpoints will get added if it's necessary. Generally speaking, western music on piano is very limited. Let say if you choose C chord for the song, one will, generally, play with C family chords such as G, Am, F, Dm, etc...but not something completely out of the C family.

if you try to learn this song, you'll see they play completely out of one chord family. Please get familiar with International music first, mate! =)

[pianist1501]

@patrickcharm123 You seem to know only basic harmonisation with 3 or 4 chords. You apparently do not know J S Bach's harmonisation nor Schubert's harmonisation with chords far away from the home key. Please get familiar with advanced harmonisation before you talk about harmonisation. Little knowledge is dangerous mate.

[MMAsIngs]

@patrickcharm123 Hahaha, your knowledge about harmonisation is so limited and laughable. So you think that J S Bach, Mozart, Beethoven only used limited numbers of chords. You clearly need ear training because you do not hear the rich harmonisation and counerpoints.

It is you, who need to be familiar with international music. Dont limit your knowledge of harmonisation by reading books that have titles like' play any song on rhythm guitar with 4 chords'. Hahaha.

[MMAsIngs]

@patrickcharm123

Judging from what you said, I know that when you listen to Beethoven's 5th symphony, you will not know that it started in C-minor and ends with C-major Chords, and in between there were modulations to distant keys with distant chords like Chords from A-minor ect. All this will pass you by. Your belief that western music harmonisation is only in the home key is really laughable. Just admit it- you are a musical ignoramus who like to talk about things you do not know.

[patrickcharm123]

@MMAsIngs If you have blind faith in that philosophy of urs, there's nth I can do to explain to you, but to let you go, mate. I dare you to play this song, but then again, being blind by all those egos and unwillingness to try out this piece, you probably be remain in ur cynical view.

when i made my comment, i did not judge you with name, like you are juding me musical ignoramus, but look at you. U listen Beethoven and calling others name? Hope you get mature somedays.

[MMAsIngs]

@patrickcharm123 Who is prejudiced? In your comments to me and to pianist1500, you wrote that we will not be able to play this single-line melody without even knowing how we can play the piano and you have the cheek to advise us to learn international music and harmony. I learned piano in Rangoon first and I can play single-line melody as that was the way I was taught in Burma. After coming to England and learning to play harmony with the tune, I do not want to play single-line piano anymore.

[MMAsIngs]

@patrickcharm123 Your knowledge of harmony obviously is based on three-chord trick harmonisation of pop songs. I have been studying music theory and harmony twice a week at a music college for 7 years and still find harmony not easy. Music scholars even now wonder at the way Bach harmonised his chorals. When you maintain that western harmonisation is so simple, you not only revealed your ignorance but also showed that you are pretentious and talk as if you are familiar with western music. LOL.

[MMAsIngs]

@patrickcharm123

I will follow pianist1500's example and will not answer to your reply anymore after this. There is no point in debating with someone who thinks Mozart is not that good (in spite of his wonderful operas and piano sonatas and piano concertos which are regarded as the best of the genre by musicians), who prefer single-line piano music to contrapuntal piano music and whose idea of harmony is less than rudimentary.

It will be like playing harp to a bullock as the Burmese sayng goes.

[MMAsIngs]

Being a Myanmar I like this of course. But I have to say that Myanmar piano music has not advanced from playing piano like a pattala.

In western piano music, there are always harmony note accompanying the melody either chords or separate notes as a counterpoint. Even a beginner is taught to play with left hand accompaniment.

For the westerners, hearing myanmar piano music sounds like the piano is only played with the right hand only since the harmony notes from the bass clef are missing.

[pianist1501]

@MMAsIngs

I will have to agree. When my English friends heard the piano music on the myanmar songs they said it wwas played with one hand. In myanmar music both the left hand and the right hand just play the melody line only without counterpoint. In modern days, all the pianists apart from myanmar, play piano with left hand harmony. Perhaps it is a time to modernisr the myanmar piano music. Otherwise myanmar piano music will not be acceptable apart from Myanmars.

[zawoo123]

Masterpiece performance!!!

Asking you for more. and thank you for the music.

[snowflake8439]

Wonderful. This is one of my favourites May Shin Song. Thanks.

[zrshwe]

I love it. I wish I can play so fluently like you. This is one of my favourite May Shin song. Do you know who composed the song?