I'm prochoice, and can't understand how anyone would want to force a woman to stay pregnant and give birth against her will,even if it was possible.In the few countries around the world where abortions not legal, women have just as many abortions. My body My Choice!
I totally agree its like if you broke your arm and you were not allowed to seek medical treatment ~ not comparing a baby to a broken arm but you get the idea.
I am pro-choice. I believe that every human being should have the opportunity to choose live life and be happy or, if they must die, to choose to die for something great and good--not merely their mother's convenience. Since there is no time after conception which one can point to as the time life begins I have no choice but to oppose abortion of my being. I cannot be pro-abortion (by which I refer to supporting legalized abortion) and remain consistent with my mind or my heart.
Why would the right of your body give you right to another beings body? If u have the right to your body then you should also be held responsible for getting knocked up and killing a baby shouldn't be a easy way out. And note that only 5% of abortions are caused by rape
if your pro-choice, your consequently pro abortion, or is not that one of the "choices", you just want to make it sound prettier, to apeace your consciense thats calling you a murderer at heart. Think about it.
Turn from your sins and Believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
@boricua723 says: Turn from your sins and Believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
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We did!! Thats why we belive in abortion because the bible never states its wrong or even a sin, and there are NO mistakes in the bible, right sweetie? (smile)
People say that abortion should not be a moral issue. However, a new abortion practice is taking place called "induced labor." A baby is born alive with a heart beating and these babies are left to die. Thats the cruel. I don't know whats worse aborting a baby because some people are not reasonable or having the baby born feeling pain so it can die. "Well why don't you take care of all the foster children" Why don't you let murders just happen after all your taking the life away from a human.
@meerkatman22 the right to choose what? whether or not to kill an innocent human baby? why do you people constantly stop at the right to choose? FINISH YOUR "RIGHT"! Admit that you're for the killing of children! "Women should have the right to choose" ... to murder their children. That is exactly what you are saying.
You know, there are still plenty 30-somethings who got taught abstinence was the *only* way to have a courtship. Yet at the same time, masturbation was explained in detail to the boys' class, while girls got taught the more, erm, "biological" aspect of that relationship.
I get the feeling you don't understand education at all, or you're from a hole in the wall. If you've known a health educator in the past 20 years, you'd know you're talking "a priori".
Why is it so bad to be pro abortion? I see nothing wrong in actually WANTING say a 12 year old to get an abortion or any other female, I might want you to get an abortion but you still have the choice to agree or disagree with my opinion. Of course forcing someone to have an abortion is wrong as well as the reciprocal of that. But just wanting someone to have it should not be something so despicable.
@jackumonkey Point taken. I really don't want there to be a need for a 12 year old to get an abortion but since I seem to have little impact on that sort of thing, I advocate that it remain safe and legal for the unfortunate instances when it is necessary.
@JaguarJ0nes How is the only decent opinion being prochoice because it is cruelto force a pregnancy, when the choice for abortion is extremely cruel towards the fetus, where are the fetuses rights in all of this? How is it more wrong to simpily have to be inconvinienced for 9 months then being murdered? Where is the fetuses choice?
@BluecollarAtheist says: A couple copulates, a pregnancy results, the man has NO rights and ALL of the responsibilities concerning the child. How is this equal?
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No, the man does NOT have "all the responsibility" of a child and DOES have rights to it. What are you talking about?
If abortion were legalised, some of the people posting comments here wouldn't be here. Appreciate the life you have and allow the same life opportunity for those poor wombs. Ask your mum how you were concieved and how love can get you though? Apply the same love to your wombs. For those who have unresponsible parents, i feel deep sympathy, but would you still choose to die instead of being alive at this moment?
An excellent commentary on such a touchy subject. Consider that most unwanted pregnancies are a result to society's resposibilities to instill moral values into our children. young people these days are educated in public schools on how sex works. As a student in HS, our sex-ed teached was fired for kinoodling with a student and got caught. To me, passing out rubbers and encouraging pre-marital sex in schools is a HUGE step backwards
Its simple as this. THAT FETUS IS LIVING AND BREATHING. well most people say oo well its not. then what the fuck is it then?? a little snake?? or something. abortion is just wrong. it should be legal but its funny how people dont wanna speak about the evil of this. O well its a womans right to do whatever she wants. Ok its her right yes so then its her right to kill someone then too..??? all i can say is that abortion should be legal and thats all.
@dog7600re A fetus is like a person in a coma. A person in a coma wouldn't be alive without the life support machines where as a feuts wouldn't be alive without the woman being used as a life support machine. So some people say it's not breathing because it's not. The woman is breathing giving oxygen to the fetus who couldn't breathe on it's own. It's not fully developed. As a woman, I want the right to control my own body, it's human rights.
@sunderlandgrl see thats the same excuse women use is that. its not that we want to take ur rights away but its what you do to the baby. your basically killing the baby. either way the baby is about to be something and idk why you would want to kill someone. you can use all the excuses in the world but its wrong. If you dont want the baby just say " I',m a lazy person and i dont want this baby" simple as that.
@dog7600re Let's put it this way, if abortion was made illegal, women would still make the choice to get an abortion, it would just be unsafe and illegal. Backstreet abortion would not only kill the foetus, but there would be a high possibility of the woman dying aswell. Why do you think it was made legal in the first place. There is nothing right about abortion, but to make it illegal would be to make the situation worse, as they found out when abortion was illegal.
@dog7600re You ask, "what the fuck is it then??" The answer is that in the beginning of a pregnancy it isn't a living, breathing person. In the first trimester (which, by the way, is the time-limit for when a woman can have an abortion) the fetus isn't a baby, its a lump of rapidly dividing and developing cells. Whether you agree or disagree with people's reasons for getting abortions, it still isn't a person within the legal (and physical) time limit that a woman has to abort it. That's all :-)
I'd be pro choice, if there were limits. There has to be a certain respect for life and it's just not right for people to treat this as another form of contraceptive.
Stop lying. Would you say it is ethical to allow someone the "choice" to murder you? Why should an unborn child's be treated with any less respect than yours? Women have NO right to murder their children, plain and simple.
@Higsbeard no its not simple! Abortion is not just religious or moral issue. Its also social, economical, medical etc. Not every family can "afford" a child. Look at foreclosure rates, medical bills, housing bills, death rates form crime or even insubstantial health care. Its not okey to bring child if everything he will see for the most of his life is gonna be problems - poverty, health, no education, family issues etc. You just see one tiny dot in a huge picture!!
So it's okay to kill a child if you can't afford one? If you don't want a child, here's a thought: Don't have sex. If it's forced, so what? You're going to kill a child for the sin of his father?
Honestly, what are we, barbarians? There is NO excuse for murder! Can't you listen to reason?
@Higsbeard no, not child, a fetus. and fetus is NOT a child yet. sin? dont give me this religious crap! wheres your god when newborns catch diseases, get mutilated or die?! we lived according your morals for a long time and we barely had any progress. Once again, abortion is not only about morality. Any woman can give birth to a baby, thats easy part so to speak. However raising a child is another story. Its a life-time work. Thats what matters, not the birth itself.
@eleminatus You're absolutely right. We never got anywhere when we had religion. Except that people respected others much more. And we had more scientific breakthroughs. And crime was not as high. And test scores were higher. Um... where were you right? And what does religion have to do with the murdering of innocent, human, unborn babies?
@Sageangel18000 wow.. where do I start! People respected you say?! Look up how religion was spread, how people were treated if they said one bad world about religion or government, how they treated people of different religions etc. Now tell me some scientific advancements between around 3rd century A.D. and 16th century A.D. Religion was in power all this time. Cant come up with many can you?! Loop up Galileo story, find out how church treated science!
@Sageangel18000 Crime was lower?! Ever heard of inquisition? Holy wars? Witch hunts? Lets jump to modern world then. US is one of the most religious countries in the world. Now compare it to many secular countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark or Japan! Former countries have better education, better healthcare, better social benefits, more stable economies, less crime, less teen pregnancy, less domestic violence, more green, better transportation and the list goes on!
@Sageangel18000 Crime was lower?! Ever heard of inquisition? Holy wars? Witch hunts? Lets jump to modern world then. US is one of the most religious countries in the world. Now compare it to many secular countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark or Japan! Former countries have better education, better healthcare, better social benefits, more stable economies, less crime, less teen pregnancy, less domestic violence, more green, better transportation and the list goes on!
@Sageangel18000 Even according to global peace index US is only 82nd in the world. And it has a lot to do with abortion, since its mainly religious fanatics who oppose it. Like its their business what woman does with the fetus!
So a stem cell is also a human? Or a sperm? How about an egg? Sperm can become human, but should it be considered human? There is no defining line! Fetus in development is not yet a human, that’s a simple fact.
@Sageangel18000 Even according to global peace index US is only 82nd in the world. And it has a lot to do with abortion, since its mainly religious fanatics who oppose it. Like its their business what woman does with the fetus!
So a stem cell is also a human? Or a sperm? How about an egg? Sperm can become human, but should it be considered human? There is no defining line! Fetus in development is not yet a human, that’s a simple fact.
@eleminatus When does a fetus become a child? What differentiates a toddler from an unborn baby? How is it possible for two human parents to create something that is not human but later becomes human?
@Sageangel18000 Even according to global peace index US is only 82nd in the world. And it has a lot to do with abortion, since its mainly religious fanatics who oppose it. Like its their business what woman does with the fetus!
So a stem cell is also a human? Or a sperm? How about an egg? Sperm can become human, but should it be considered human? There is no defining line! Fetus in development is not yet a human, that’s a simple fact.
@Sageangel18000 Its still a collection of cells. Toddler is a finished product, an already developed human child! That’s the difference. Early fetus does not even have consciousness! Besides life question, there are many social and economical implications. Just look at lives of teen moms and their children. Neither gain anything, but loose a lot!
@eleminatus Studies show that at week 8, when the baby is no longer called an embryo and is called a fetus, every organ is present and functioning. Secondly, does consciousness qualify the baby to be called human? There are many times in life where one loses consciousness. Is it right to kill them as well? It is a collection of cells that are in fact alive. It is a human. That is the one and only issue here- is it human?
@Sageangel18000 for starters, organs are present but NOT functional since they are underdeveloped. Secondly, did I say that consciousness determines humanity? It was merely one of the points. And for crying out loud, dont tell me you are using phrase "lose consciousness" literally! And no, fetus is NOT a human. Its a fetus who is developing to become a human. It does not even have a proper nervous system until 23rd week! Its not even aware of its existence.
@Sageangel18000 I don’t know where to draw the line. Doctors determined that abortion is viable until 20th week or so! Some organs are working, brain is developing, body is taking shape, yet its still not a human. How about consider human a fetus that is capable of surviving outside the uterus? But that’s not for us to decide now is it. If you are enjoying your tunnel vision on this issue, thinking its all about life, then be my guest. The thing is, its not that simple.
@Sageangel18000 You talk about adoption. Go look up statistics first. About 2 million orphans in US, only around 120K are adopted yearly. And sloppy US couples are only contributing to this horrific statistics. Look at those unwanted children. Overwhelming majority are troubled – drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, crime – in other word they become a menace to the society and themselves. They barely get education, live in poverty and are socially dysfunctional.
@eleminatus And you talk of unwanted children. Is not the slogan of Planned Parenthood, "Every child a wanted child." Next, saying that the fetus is not human but later becomes human goes directly against the scientific law of Biogenesis. Look it up. Lastly, should the human child not have the right to choose all of those things? Are you saying that you're in favor of suspending the rights of people to make their own decisions in life?
@Sageangel18000 also, why do you pick the most irrelevant side of the topic. The name of something is mere semantics; call it human or call it thing. I thought the real issue here was whether its alive, not how we call it.
Also, you are in no position to lecture me on rights, since you are the one who wants to take women rights to choose for themselves. Pretty much forcing them to give birth no matter the consequences.
@Sageangel18000 however, to answer your questions - yes, technically fetus is alive. Technically! But it can never survive or develop outside. Also, no, I dont want to take anyones rights. Yet its pretty hard to take rights from someone who does not even have a nervous system.
Also, you yourself decided to make it a biological argument. So why are you raising social issues yourself? Hypocrisy much? Sorry, but i dont have tunnel vision!
@eleminatus First, I apologize for the extreme delay in this response. College just gave me a figurative boot to the head. Moving on... I don't consider it hypocrisy to bring social issues into this debate. Secondly, YOU brought social issues into this debate. Look at your 2nd to last previous response. YOU brought the social issues. Again, that's not hypocrisy. Next, at week 8, the unborn human baby can feel pain. Now, I was never taught this, but wouldn't that require a nervous system?
@Sageangel18000 delay is not a problem, dont worry! I did not call you a hypocrite because of raising social issue. I called you a hypocrite cause you said "This has nothing to do with economics" and a comment later you raised social issue! I know I did raise them, they are relevant. Overpopulation is another issue. In one year we use what Earth restores in 1.3 years. You want every baby to be born? Go ahead! But with such logic you will soon reach China's demographic issues!
@Sageangel18000 At 8 weeks pain receptors are present and keep on developing. However thalamus is not formed enough to translate it into conventional pain. I know of experiments were fetus would be poked with a needle and the effected part would react. But same applies to paraplegics; that’s a reflex mediated by the spinal cord and not a conscious reaction. To translate pain properly and rout it, thalamus needs to be around 28 weeks old.
@Sageangel18000 But lets assume fetus feels pain; many abortions are done with anesthesia. And I can only repeat myself – why do you focus on the life issue so much? If you will keep on bringing life you will reach a point where you cant even feed so many mouths. And those “saved” lives will become nightmares. Look at US now – poverty levels, employment issues, foreclosures, absence of universal healthcare, education etc. Do you want people to live or just survive?
@eleminatus First off, our current economic crisis has nothing to do with the murdering of innocent babies. Both you and I know that. Second, we also know that it has nothing to do with the number of people living in the U.S. Third... Universal healthcare... Ya know, Canada has that same system. How's their healthcare. I happen to be friends with a Canadian... THEIR HEALTHCARE SUCKS BECAUSE IT'S UNIVERSAL!
@Sageangel18000 what the hell? how did you get to current economic crisis from what I wrote? Of course it has nothing to do with abortion. I dont even know how you got that correlation. I was talking about economical implications in general. In a country where 15% live in poverty, 11% dont have food everyday, 9% are unemployed and where 45000 die because they dont have healthcare (and tone of other sad statistics), you want to keep bringing babies? Then you are completely ignorant of reality!
@Sageangel18000 Look at Chinas example and how they control the birthrate (cant have more then 2 kids). US is taking same route. With present economical system you wont be able to supply everyone with jobs and social benefits. Those babies you are trying to save right now will be condemned! Why do you so desperately ignore the rest of the picture? Its not black and white, its not a simple choice of abort or not.
@Sageangel18000 You will understand when you start a family and enter the real world! Also, US is the only developed country in the WORLD which allows people to die just because they don’t have a healthcare covered. In my book, that’s worse then a universal healthcare! Try not to get into those 45.000 who die yearly just because of that!
@eleminatus Why the heck are we discussing healthcare reform when the topic is the murder of innocent children? Next, I live in the real world. I CAN'T AFFORD HEALTHCARE! Do you think that supplying everyone with the same government crap for healthcare is going to be a good thing? Wake up! Back to the murdering of innocent babies. Why...the heck... are you bringing completely unrelated matters into an abortion debate?
@Sageangel18000 are you even reading my comments? That same government crap, as you call it, saves lives in Europe and Canada. Look up how healthcare works in those countries before yelling "I cant afford". French healthcare is the best in the world and they spend HALF of what US spends per capita! And people dont die there because they cant afford basic needs! And if you think that economical implications are not related to abortion debate, just read some statistics!
@Sageangel18000 Look at women or couples that keep such children – often have to sacrifice education to support the child, have low income, turn to drugs and alcohol, even crime. Simply put, unwanted babies cause immense issues, though its not their fault! Now look at financial side – government has to spend money on these children and such dysfunctional families, if their parent or they upon growing up get into jail, government has to sustain them there too,
@Sageangel18000 they often demand social security benefits and the list goes on. So no, its not about life or death, the picture is much bigger then you assume! Also, try not to be a hypocrite, when you start a family, adopt a kid or two and make your words your actions!
@eleminatus Do not confuse the issue here. If the unborn is not human, no argument against abortion would be needed. If the unborn is human, no argument for abortion would be adequate. The issue at hand here is whether or not the unborn baby is human. This has nothing to do with economics. The question is, is the unborn baby human?
@Sageangel18000 so you gonna insist on the tunnel vision; just pick one problem out of many. Its a packed topic, making it exclusively biological issue is dishonest at best. If you want biological hypothesis, I gave you mine. Then there are professionals who make actual decisions. And they made one! You wanna argue otherwise, go finish med-school and all the subsequent studies and then you get a viable word! Now, you, or me, can just speculate.
@eleminatus On the topic of teen moms, did I ever say that adoption was not an option? There are people out there that can't produce children due to problems with the mom's reproductive areas. They want to adopt. I also know a family that had two daughters... then they adopted... twice. Tell me, should the child be killed so the mother can feel better?
@eleminatus Where is my God? He's with everybody and is looking after everyone at all times. And actually, a fetus is a child. If I locked you in you closet for nine months, then during that time, would you not be a human? According to your logic, no. "A person is a person no matter how small."
Put the child up for adoption if you really don't want it.
@qwerty8me556 what kind of analogy is that? Dont compare a fetus to an already born and grown human. Define a fetus what ever way you want, but in medical terms, its not a child. Its a cluster of cells, that will one day become a child. If your argument is simply about letting a fetus develop and live, then dont bother. Been there, done that. Its a weak argument. Your inability to detect any social and economical implications of your position makes it even weaker.
@eleminatus The fact that you can't realize that whether a person is old or dying, or still in the womb is still a person is just sad. Please leave me alone.
@qwerty8me556 listen, its you who replied me. You want to present arguments and debate the issue? Be my guest. But stop with the juvenile "Yes. You really need to understand that!" replies and passive aggressive comments. I answered to your first comment, that there are social and economical (among other) implications of this issue. You can either address my argument and challenge me with yours, subsequently having a civilized debate. Or you can simply leave! Which one will it be?
@qwerty8me556 oh.. and please look up some adoption statistics before so loosely saying "Put the child up for adoption". And if you want to continue this conversation, please, dont use the god nonsense. We are discussing issues of reality, not supernatural.
@Higsbeard and im not the one who should apply reason here. YOU are the one following ancient books and fairy tail morality. Everything you are advocating for is birth itself, when you dont even think what happens after that. You probably dont even have a clue how many families and children struggle every single day to survive. If thats what you want for your child then YOU are a barbarian. Look at the whole picture, not just a bit you like!
@Higsbeard You know that people actually like having sex, right? Or are you the creep who lives down the block and stares at cats a lot, that could explain it...
What you guys don't understand is that THERE IS ALREADY TOO MANY PEOPLE ON THIS EARTH!!! Telling people to use a condom doesn't work, apparently. But if a woman wants to get an abortion it's obvious that she has reasoning for it. Don't tell me that if you were a teen who got pregnant and you want to keep it! For that's let's just have everyone around here getting pregnant at 13 and being happy to keep it!! Yay woohoo! I agree that you should keep your legs closed theory but I don't believe that
'I am Pro-choice... I am not pro-abortion... I want women to have a choice..." JaguarJ0ones... U are intellectually dishonest... or just a fricken' retard... The woman's 'choice' that U speak of is 'abortion...' and this abortion takes another Citizen's life... Do U pal-around with the Whore of Babylon... she once said, 'I am Pro-work... I am not a Prostitute... I want woman to have a choice to earn money...' wtf...???
The statement "I desire people to be free to choose A" does not mean "I desire people to choose A". You have failed at basic syntax, and then gone on to insult your intellectual superior in AOLspeak and terribly malformed religious analogies. Your argument is a sickening deformity that, ironically, should have been aborted.
And you have failed at basic morals. No one should have the choice to legally do something that is evil. Should the Nazis have had the "freedom of choice" to kill Jews? What makes abortion any less evil than the Holocaust?
@Higsbeard What the Nazis did had nothing to do with their own human rights but the human rights of others which they took away and for your information, it wasn't just Jews that were murdered in the holocaust. Abortion gives women the human right to control their own body. If that right was took away, then it would be exactly the same as the Nazis taking away the rights of the people caught up in the holocaust. Your argument goes against your beliefs and I dont understand why you have done that
Juliewashere88...U define Pro-Life advocacy as ‘poking a troll...?’ wtf...? I missed Ur point because it was a lame and confusing vid... Lie to Urself but don’t throw do-do in my face... A mother makes her ‘choice’ and a human being is killed... If U Murder Mommies want an absolute birth-control then cut your womb from Ur body...before U murder another Citizen... Pro-choice is Abortion-Genocide and I demand that this atrocity be abolished...
So how many years in prison should a girl who gets raped and then has an abortion serve? Logically it's infantacide, one of the most horrible things imagionable, completely premeditated (hired someone to do it). If a feotus is a human being with all the rights of a human being should women (girls, victoms of rape) be given the death penalty or life inprisonment?
If you don't think we should lock them up then you don't belive that unborn children actually have rights.
JaguarJ0nes... Ur talk is cheap... U oppose a woman to be forced to have a murderous Abortion but U support a woman to choose to have a murderous Abortion...? wtf...? So U like murder if the woman chooses to murder otherwise Ur against abortion...? Ur woman's choice kills a life... Repent for i don't want U to burn in hell... Abolish Abortion-Genocide...
@RalphMariedeLargo haha aborting a fetus takes no life. If something can not live without being attached to something else its hardly a person. At best its a parasite. Through the early stage of embryo development the fetus is indistinguishable from the fetus of any other animal really. Jaguar has a perfectly valid point that forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy is cruel whereas abortion is no more cruel than that burger you had for lunch. The fetus is less aware of its life than that cow was.
The point, since you missed it, is that women should not be forced into either abortion or birth. They should be able to choose which they want to do and that choice, whatever it is, should be respected. It is absolutely unacceptable to force her to do one or the other.
That's what being pro-choice means. It means she gets to decide for herself what to do with her pregnancy. We don't care what she chooses so long as it was her choice.
I don't see how you could find pregnant women to be a different topic than a discussion about... uh... pregnant women.
Do try to know what you're talking about if you're just going to stalk me and but in. This video was about pregnant women being able to freely choose and so was my comment.
@ChooseLifeIreland I'm sorry, 'if I think I'm being followed'? Are you kidding me? You comment on my channel and not a few minutes after I post a comment on this video you replied to me. That's a pretty huge damned coincidence, don't you think?
At least the other people who do that admit it.
Hey, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do that, I'm just saying it's a little creepy that you're that interested in what I'm saying regardless of where I say it.
Right on, Jaguar Jonesmeister! I get that pithy "pro-abort" appellation all the freaking time - and it pithes me off. I've been compelled to step outside of my own past and own up to my stance. It's not always pretty; it's not always painless; it's not always easy. But who made me Mastress of the Universe? No one - that's who. And now we kind of have a dead doctor - and it's kind of a massive problem.......
It is obvious that you are a smart guy, and you are right, woman do deserve the choice, but having choosing between killing a person vs. not...what choice is to be made? I think it is obvious, no one has the right to kill a person, especially a defenceless baby. Women who don't want a baby, but get pregnant (by mistake or rape), still don't have the power to decide who lives and who dies. The reasons for abortion are numerous, but the end result is the same, a innocent baby always dies.
@SkeksisRule Maybe you should re word your arguement.....what about people who are "vegetables"? Can they make decisions by themselves? can they survive without their hosts?...think about it, a fetus is not much different than them, so does that make it ok to shred them to pieces too?
@Shannon2993 A "vegetable" or comatose person does not rely on nutrients they absorb through a host body to live. They may rely on machines to help them breath or provide nutrition, but only because of injuries. Before their injuries they were a fully capable and independent person. Before a fetus developed inside of a female it was 2 single cells that joined and attached to the uterine lining. Fertilized eggs are commonly expelled during menstruation. So what is the big deal? Your point fails.
@SkeksisRule Ok maybe a comatose person was able to survive on their own by themselves, but what about people who are born that way? or should they have just been aborted? I have taken a biology class or two, so I know how a fetus is formed, and that sometimes, the body NATURALLY rejects the embryo, but when the opportunity of life is presented and the embryo is implanted in the uterine lining, who has the right to shred that life to pieces? Not me nor you, nor any person.
@Shannon2993 "but when the opportunity of life is presented and the embryo is implanted in the uterine lining, who has the right to shred that life to pieces? Not me nor you, nor any person"
So you're saying that once a fertilized egg attaches to a woman's uterus, it now has more rights over her body than she does? I think not. It's a matter of choice. Your body, your choice. How would you like to be raped and then forced to have the child against your own will?
@SkeksisRule no it does not take over her body, but it is as much a life as her own, therefore its life is not any less valuable than that of her own.
"Your body, your choice"
You are right in a sense, you have sex, deal with the consequences, but you get raped? well that is different. Rape is an awful thing, and I wish it upon nobody. But rape has been happening since the beginning of time, and nothing we can do will ever stop it. So, why punish the baby for the act the father committed?
@Shannon2993 Your arguments have all failed, but you refuse to accept it. You can't answer any of my questions because you would have to admit that you are wrong.
A woman has the right to do anything she wants with her body, including aborting a thing that is living inside of her, and no one can force her to carry an unwanted fetus to term. She does not automatically lose the right to make her own choice simply because a fertilized egg settles in her uterus.
"including aborting a thing that is living inside of her..." you used the word "living" telling me that deep down inside you know that there is life inside of her (no matter its "value").Since when is it ok to murder?
'She does not automatically lose the right to make her own choice simply because a fertilized egg settles in her uterus" She made the choice by allowing sex to happen. rape.....is rape, shit happens, get over it
Its a start, but all you have really done is express your opinion on how pro lifers are no better if not worse then people who force abortions on women. Using that rational, shouldn't post nately killing children also be legal too, for its the parent's choice to decide whether they want to keep them or not?
I would, were I able to(I couldn't, because I wouldn't exist).
Had my mother had an abortion for a decent reason, I would consider her right to do so.
This argument is always the only one I'm presented with that isn't based on religion, too. Which depresses me. Try looking at things through an objective eye.
@AkiThePirate Oh, you would have existed then you would have died. Even if she has the legal right, she is still responsible for killing a person.
Besides, who said I'm religious. I value every person.
Try looking at things through a subjective eye, there is a real person. who really matters who needs protection from his or her mother, not to be taken to death
If life is so precious, why aren't the "Pro-Lifers" picketing the many numerous fertility clinics with the millions of "unborn babies" that were created in-vitro but were not implanted in the woman? Many of these embryos will be destroyed because they are not needed, which is a good reason to use them and others created for stem cell research.
You talk in such a condescending tone yet can't spell "carry" correctly? Now THAT is someone I know *I* want to listen to! How in the world could forcing someone to have a baby be MORE cruel then making them KILL one they wish to have? Nope, not buying. I can see, though I disagree, how some may think it's "cruel" since society has convinced everyone that abortion is a perfectly logical "solution" to any and all pregnancies. But to say it's even MORE cruel? Wow, Two words for ya! Looney-Tunes!
1. Aborting a healthy 8.5-month-old viable fetus that poses no unusual risks to the mom -- obviously immoral.
2. Forcing a rape-victim pregnant 9-year-old girl to carry to term a fetus lodged in her tubes (where risk of rupture and eventual bleeding to death is almost 100%) --- also obviously immoral.
There is no all-inclusive answer.
The specific case has to be considered (such as how developed and viable the fetus is), and admittedly, there has to be a somewhat arbitrary threshold determined.
When caught protesting abortions, these people should recieve 10 children from the local orphanarium and be forced to take care of them until they are 18. If human life is so valuable to these people why don't they pick up the homeless too, or is it just the unborn they care about? After they come out F#$% em. Let them grow up with a parent that regrets having them, genius, thats not gonna breed any problems in society. Religion has the answer to everything yet the solution to nothing.
@scuntpunter420 So, your saying you support killing homeless people. They need to be taken care of. You seriosly think it is better to murder someone than to have more issues that need to be focused on?
Excellent point snoman, I always try to make that point to others and they just ignore it and say "but killing babies is wrong!". That has nothing to do with it because making it illegal will only make abortions unsafe and much more harmful, it wont stop them nor reduce them.
Occasionally, contraception will fail, either through the rare defective, or through improper use.
And then we have the social conservatives, the 'abstinence only' crowd, who purposefully misinform people about contraceptives and sex, making them think it's pointless to use protection. However, people will still have sex. There's no changing that fact. That's why we have such a high unwanted pregnancy rate in America.
(Yes, late post, but I wanted to make sure you realized this.)
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I understand considering the plight of the woman, but what about the child? Which is more cruel, having a woman live through nine months of an unwanted pregnancy or denying a child a chance at life? I can support abortion if the child has severe deformities. (Some are so bad that their life would be hell.) As for rape, couldn't the victim receive counseling and then put the kid up for adoption once delivered? How would aborting heal the pain of rape? It's not the child's fault.
Either way, this issue is just tragic. If the child is carried to term and latter given up for adoption, what are it's chances of survival? Are their really that many people who would adopt all those kids? I guess their fucked anyway you look at it.
Ironically, the Bible does not actually condemn abortion specifically, not in the Old nor New Testament. Quite the contrary, in fact!
"Thou shalt not kill" is mistranslated and should be "thou shalt not MURDER." Murder is defined as the killing of a PERSON. So the key question is, when does PERSONHOOD begin, NOT when does HUMAN LIFE begin (that begins at conception)?
SEVEN TIMES in Numbers Chapter 3 ALONE, God says that only those of age ONE MONTH *AFTER* BIRTH and up are counted as Persons!
In Leviticus Chapter 27 and Numbers Chapter 8, God assigns MONETARY VALUE to Persons based on their age and gender. Men of working / fighting age are the most valuable, and women less so. Senior citizens less valuable, older children and teenagers less valuable still, and babies and young children the least valuable.
But PRIOR to age ONE MONTH *AFTER* BIRTH, that value is ZERO! NONE! ZILCH! NADA! ZIPPO! AUGHT! GOOSE EGG!
In Numbers Chapter 5 starting with verse 11, God COMMANDS a TEST for determining if a wife has been unfaithful to her husband (no vice-versa test). This test involves drinking water "that bringeth the curse" that has toxic dust added in. If she's guilty, the curse causes "her belly [womb] to swell and her thigh [groin, genitalia] to rot." These are symptoms of MISCARRIAGE!
Is the dust an ABORTIFACIENT? Did God actually COMMAND CHEMICALLY INDUCED *ABORTION*!?
And if I'm reading my Bible right, this gives men the power to divorce their wife at any time by knocking her up, CLAIMING that she was unfaithful, administering THE TEST WHICH CAUSES ABORTION, and then using the abortion as proof that she's committed adultery, resulting in her death by stoning.
Foolproof bronze age desert nomad middle eastern justice!
I'm prochoice, and can't understand how anyone would want to force a woman to stay pregnant and give birth against her will,even if it was possible.In the few countries around the world where abortions not legal, women have just as many abortions. My body My Choice!
dianalee84 1 week ago
I totally agree its like if you broke your arm and you were not allowed to seek medical treatment ~ not comparing a baby to a broken arm but you get the idea.
46JacobyGirl 1 week ago
I am pro-choice. I believe that every human being should have the opportunity to choose live life and be happy or, if they must die, to choose to die for something great and good--not merely their mother's convenience. Since there is no time after conception which one can point to as the time life begins I have no choice but to oppose abortion of my being. I cannot be pro-abortion (by which I refer to supporting legalized abortion) and remain consistent with my mind or my heart.
hicnonsumitur 2 weeks ago
Why would the right of your body give you right to another beings body? If u have the right to your body then you should also be held responsible for getting knocked up and killing a baby shouldn't be a easy way out. And note that only 5% of abortions are caused by rape
dnanddn 1 month ago
@dnanddn Embryos don't have rights. Women do.
MyrtleMessmer 1 month ago
i think the women should bring the child to term, if she doesn't want the child give up for adoption. aborting a child is just selfish.
crogsvien 2 months ago
@crogsvien What's wrong with being selfish? Men are selfish all the time.
MyrtleMessmer 1 month ago
all women should have the choice. HER CHOICE!
cjm608 4 months ago
if your pro-choice, your consequently pro abortion, or is not that one of the "choices", you just want to make it sound prettier, to apeace your consciense thats calling you a murderer at heart. Think about it.
Turn from your sins and Believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
boricua723 4 months ago
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@boricua723 says: Turn from your sins and Believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
~~~~~~~~
We did!! Thats why we belive in abortion because the bible never states its wrong or even a sin, and there are NO mistakes in the bible, right sweetie? (smile)
Sueezee1 4 months ago
People say that abortion should not be a moral issue. However, a new abortion practice is taking place called "induced labor." A baby is born alive with a heart beating and these babies are left to die. Thats the cruel. I don't know whats worse aborting a baby because some people are not reasonable or having the baby born feeling pain so it can die. "Well why don't you take care of all the foster children" Why don't you let murders just happen after all your taking the life away from a human.
theamazingstevenc 5 months ago
hello, get on a damn public bus... instant. convincement.
mark902 6 months ago
Exactly!! Well spoken!! Let the women have the right to choose.
meerkatman22 6 months ago
@meerkatman22 the right to choose what? whether or not to kill an innocent human baby? why do you people constantly stop at the right to choose? FINISH YOUR "RIGHT"! Admit that you're for the killing of children! "Women should have the right to choose" ... to murder their children. That is exactly what you are saying.
Sageangel18000 5 months ago
@BluecollarAtheist
You know, there are still plenty 30-somethings who got taught abstinence was the *only* way to have a courtship. Yet at the same time, masturbation was explained in detail to the boys' class, while girls got taught the more, erm, "biological" aspect of that relationship.
I get the feeling you don't understand education at all, or you're from a hole in the wall. If you've known a health educator in the past 20 years, you'd know you're talking "a priori".
Rurne 7 months ago
This video is about how neutral the narrator is. Not about why abortion should be legal.
SmokeTheJeffrey1 7 months ago
Why is it so bad to be pro abortion? I see nothing wrong in actually WANTING say a 12 year old to get an abortion or any other female, I might want you to get an abortion but you still have the choice to agree or disagree with my opinion. Of course forcing someone to have an abortion is wrong as well as the reciprocal of that. But just wanting someone to have it should not be something so despicable.
jackumonkey 7 months ago
@jackumonkey Point taken. I really don't want there to be a need for a 12 year old to get an abortion but since I seem to have little impact on that sort of thing, I advocate that it remain safe and legal for the unfortunate instances when it is necessary.
JaguarJ0nes 7 months ago 5
@JaguarJ0nes How is the only decent opinion being prochoice because it is cruelto force a pregnancy, when the choice for abortion is extremely cruel towards the fetus, where are the fetuses rights in all of this? How is it more wrong to simpily have to be inconvinienced for 9 months then being murdered? Where is the fetuses choice?
freewilllover 1 month ago
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fannythegranny1 7 months ago
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xJimithebumx 8 months ago
I thought this was going to be a case for pro-choice, not a series of ad homs
SquirrelGoneBananas 8 months ago
You've got some good points, and at least one dumb one.
MovingUpp 9 months ago
@BluecollarAtheist says: would argue against the ability to consent for the ignorant.
~~~~~~~~~~ Consent... FOR ..the ignorant? Which ones are those?
Sueezee1 9 months ago
@BluecollarAtheist says: It's called responsibility
~~~~~~~~~~~ Abortion is being as responsible as using birth control . Just because you dont like it dosent make it any less a responsible act.
Sueezee1 9 months ago
@BluecollarAtheist says: A couple copulates, a pregnancy results, the man has NO rights and ALL of the responsibilities concerning the child. How is this equal?
~~~~~~~~~~
No, the man does NOT have "all the responsibility" of a child and DOES have rights to it. What are you talking about?
Sueezee1 9 months ago
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Sueezee1 9 months ago
the only problem i have is people are never looking on the childs individual rights
it is a human being and i have as you said do agree that people are nut cases for making people carry a pregnancy isnt hell on earth
the woman may not want to carry a child
the child may not want to be aborted
as for back alley abortions those women had a choice and it was there choice to idiotically take a back alley one
i believe it should be legal under worstcase scenario and to have my opinion onWSC pm me
beserkerpatroit1337 9 months ago
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If abortion were legalised, some of the people posting comments here wouldn't be here. Appreciate the life you have and allow the same life opportunity for those poor wombs. Ask your mum how you were concieved and how love can get you though? Apply the same love to your wombs. For those who have unresponsible parents, i feel deep sympathy, but would you still choose to die instead of being alive at this moment?
MrDanielkt 9 months ago
An excellent commentary on such a touchy subject. Consider that most unwanted pregnancies are a result to society's resposibilities to instill moral values into our children. young people these days are educated in public schools on how sex works. As a student in HS, our sex-ed teached was fired for kinoodling with a student and got caught. To me, passing out rubbers and encouraging pre-marital sex in schools is a HUGE step backwards
CablDragon 9 months ago
i love abortions.
DannyGloverIsAwesome 10 months ago
Its simple as this. THAT FETUS IS LIVING AND BREATHING. well most people say oo well its not. then what the fuck is it then?? a little snake?? or something. abortion is just wrong. it should be legal but its funny how people dont wanna speak about the evil of this. O well its a womans right to do whatever she wants. Ok its her right yes so then its her right to kill someone then too..??? all i can say is that abortion should be legal and thats all.
dog7600re 11 months ago
@dog7600re A fetus is like a person in a coma. A person in a coma wouldn't be alive without the life support machines where as a feuts wouldn't be alive without the woman being used as a life support machine. So some people say it's not breathing because it's not. The woman is breathing giving oxygen to the fetus who couldn't breathe on it's own. It's not fully developed. As a woman, I want the right to control my own body, it's human rights.
sunderlandgrl 11 months ago
@sunderlandgrl see thats the same excuse women use is that. its not that we want to take ur rights away but its what you do to the baby. your basically killing the baby. either way the baby is about to be something and idk why you would want to kill someone. you can use all the excuses in the world but its wrong. If you dont want the baby just say " I',m a lazy person and i dont want this baby" simple as that.
dog7600re 11 months ago
@dog7600re Let's put it this way, if abortion was made illegal, women would still make the choice to get an abortion, it would just be unsafe and illegal. Backstreet abortion would not only kill the foetus, but there would be a high possibility of the woman dying aswell. Why do you think it was made legal in the first place. There is nothing right about abortion, but to make it illegal would be to make the situation worse, as they found out when abortion was illegal.
sunderlandgrl 11 months ago
@dog7600re You ask, "what the fuck is it then??" The answer is that in the beginning of a pregnancy it isn't a living, breathing person. In the first trimester (which, by the way, is the time-limit for when a woman can have an abortion) the fetus isn't a baby, its a lump of rapidly dividing and developing cells. Whether you agree or disagree with people's reasons for getting abortions, it still isn't a person within the legal (and physical) time limit that a woman has to abort it. That's all :-)
KakeemDude4 8 months ago
I'd be pro choice, if there were limits. There has to be a certain respect for life and it's just not right for people to treat this as another form of contraceptive.
l00p0get 11 months ago
Whether or not abortion is wrong really depends on at what point you consider the foetus to be a human life
GarretsShadow 11 months ago
Do you support the tax-payer's "Choice"?
VoiceOfModeration 1 year ago
Stop lying. Would you say it is ethical to allow someone the "choice" to murder you? Why should an unborn child's be treated with any less respect than yours? Women have NO right to murder their children, plain and simple.
Higsbeard 1 year ago
@Higsbeard no its not simple! Abortion is not just religious or moral issue. Its also social, economical, medical etc. Not every family can "afford" a child. Look at foreclosure rates, medical bills, housing bills, death rates form crime or even insubstantial health care. Its not okey to bring child if everything he will see for the most of his life is gonna be problems - poverty, health, no education, family issues etc. You just see one tiny dot in a huge picture!!
eleminatus 1 year ago
@eleminatus
So it's okay to kill a child if you can't afford one? If you don't want a child, here's a thought: Don't have sex. If it's forced, so what? You're going to kill a child for the sin of his father?
Honestly, what are we, barbarians? There is NO excuse for murder! Can't you listen to reason?
Higsbeard 1 year ago
@Higsbeard no, not child, a fetus. and fetus is NOT a child yet. sin? dont give me this religious crap! wheres your god when newborns catch diseases, get mutilated or die?! we lived according your morals for a long time and we barely had any progress. Once again, abortion is not only about morality. Any woman can give birth to a baby, thats easy part so to speak. However raising a child is another story. Its a life-time work. Thats what matters, not the birth itself.
eleminatus 1 year ago 8
@eleminatus You're absolutely right. We never got anywhere when we had religion. Except that people respected others much more. And we had more scientific breakthroughs. And crime was not as high. And test scores were higher. Um... where were you right? And what does religion have to do with the murdering of innocent, human, unborn babies?
Sageangel18000 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 wow.. where do I start! People respected you say?! Look up how religion was spread, how people were treated if they said one bad world about religion or government, how they treated people of different religions etc. Now tell me some scientific advancements between around 3rd century A.D. and 16th century A.D. Religion was in power all this time. Cant come up with many can you?! Loop up Galileo story, find out how church treated science!
eleminatus 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 Crime was lower?! Ever heard of inquisition? Holy wars? Witch hunts? Lets jump to modern world then. US is one of the most religious countries in the world. Now compare it to many secular countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark or Japan! Former countries have better education, better healthcare, better social benefits, more stable economies, less crime, less teen pregnancy, less domestic violence, more green, better transportation and the list goes on!
eleminatus 5 months ago
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@Sageangel18000 Crime was lower?! Ever heard of inquisition? Holy wars? Witch hunts? Lets jump to modern world then. US is one of the most religious countries in the world. Now compare it to many secular countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark or Japan! Former countries have better education, better healthcare, better social benefits, more stable economies, less crime, less teen pregnancy, less domestic violence, more green, better transportation and the list goes on!
eleminatus 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 Even according to global peace index US is only 82nd in the world. And it has a lot to do with abortion, since its mainly religious fanatics who oppose it. Like its their business what woman does with the fetus!
So a stem cell is also a human? Or a sperm? How about an egg? Sperm can become human, but should it be considered human? There is no defining line! Fetus in development is not yet a human, that’s a simple fact.
eleminatus 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 Even according to global peace index US is only 82nd in the world. And it has a lot to do with abortion, since its mainly religious fanatics who oppose it. Like its their business what woman does with the fetus!
So a stem cell is also a human? Or a sperm? How about an egg? Sperm can become human, but should it be considered human? There is no defining line! Fetus in development is not yet a human, that’s a simple fact.
eleminatus 5 months ago
@eleminatus When does a fetus become a child? What differentiates a toddler from an unborn baby? How is it possible for two human parents to create something that is not human but later becomes human?
Sageangel18000 5 months ago
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@Sageangel18000 Even according to global peace index US is only 82nd in the world. And it has a lot to do with abortion, since its mainly religious fanatics who oppose it. Like its their business what woman does with the fetus!
So a stem cell is also a human? Or a sperm? How about an egg? Sperm can become human, but should it be considered human? There is no defining line! Fetus in development is not yet a human, that’s a simple fact.
eleminatus 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 Its still a collection of cells. Toddler is a finished product, an already developed human child! That’s the difference. Early fetus does not even have consciousness! Besides life question, there are many social and economical implications. Just look at lives of teen moms and their children. Neither gain anything, but loose a lot!
eleminatus 5 months ago
@eleminatus Studies show that at week 8, when the baby is no longer called an embryo and is called a fetus, every organ is present and functioning. Secondly, does consciousness qualify the baby to be called human? There are many times in life where one loses consciousness. Is it right to kill them as well? It is a collection of cells that are in fact alive. It is a human. That is the one and only issue here- is it human?
Sageangel18000 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 for starters, organs are present but NOT functional since they are underdeveloped. Secondly, did I say that consciousness determines humanity? It was merely one of the points. And for crying out loud, dont tell me you are using phrase "lose consciousness" literally! And no, fetus is NOT a human. Its a fetus who is developing to become a human. It does not even have a proper nervous system until 23rd week! Its not even aware of its existence.
eleminatus 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 I don’t know where to draw the line. Doctors determined that abortion is viable until 20th week or so! Some organs are working, brain is developing, body is taking shape, yet its still not a human. How about consider human a fetus that is capable of surviving outside the uterus? But that’s not for us to decide now is it. If you are enjoying your tunnel vision on this issue, thinking its all about life, then be my guest. The thing is, its not that simple.
eleminatus 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 You talk about adoption. Go look up statistics first. About 2 million orphans in US, only around 120K are adopted yearly. And sloppy US couples are only contributing to this horrific statistics. Look at those unwanted children. Overwhelming majority are troubled – drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, crime – in other word they become a menace to the society and themselves. They barely get education, live in poverty and are socially dysfunctional.
eleminatus 5 months ago
@eleminatus And you talk of unwanted children. Is not the slogan of Planned Parenthood, "Every child a wanted child." Next, saying that the fetus is not human but later becomes human goes directly against the scientific law of Biogenesis. Look it up. Lastly, should the human child not have the right to choose all of those things? Are you saying that you're in favor of suspending the rights of people to make their own decisions in life?
Sageangel18000 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 also, why do you pick the most irrelevant side of the topic. The name of something is mere semantics; call it human or call it thing. I thought the real issue here was whether its alive, not how we call it.
Also, you are in no position to lecture me on rights, since you are the one who wants to take women rights to choose for themselves. Pretty much forcing them to give birth no matter the consequences.
eleminatus 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 however, to answer your questions - yes, technically fetus is alive. Technically! But it can never survive or develop outside. Also, no, I dont want to take anyones rights. Yet its pretty hard to take rights from someone who does not even have a nervous system.
Also, you yourself decided to make it a biological argument. So why are you raising social issues yourself? Hypocrisy much? Sorry, but i dont have tunnel vision!
eleminatus 5 months ago
@eleminatus First, I apologize for the extreme delay in this response. College just gave me a figurative boot to the head. Moving on... I don't consider it hypocrisy to bring social issues into this debate. Secondly, YOU brought social issues into this debate. Look at your 2nd to last previous response. YOU brought the social issues. Again, that's not hypocrisy. Next, at week 8, the unborn human baby can feel pain. Now, I was never taught this, but wouldn't that require a nervous system?
Sageangel18000 4 months ago
@Sageangel18000 delay is not a problem, dont worry! I did not call you a hypocrite because of raising social issue. I called you a hypocrite cause you said "This has nothing to do with economics" and a comment later you raised social issue! I know I did raise them, they are relevant. Overpopulation is another issue. In one year we use what Earth restores in 1.3 years. You want every baby to be born? Go ahead! But with such logic you will soon reach China's demographic issues!
eleminatus 4 months ago
@Sageangel18000 At 8 weeks pain receptors are present and keep on developing. However thalamus is not formed enough to translate it into conventional pain. I know of experiments were fetus would be poked with a needle and the effected part would react. But same applies to paraplegics; that’s a reflex mediated by the spinal cord and not a conscious reaction. To translate pain properly and rout it, thalamus needs to be around 28 weeks old.
eleminatus 4 months ago
@Sageangel18000 But lets assume fetus feels pain; many abortions are done with anesthesia. And I can only repeat myself – why do you focus on the life issue so much? If you will keep on bringing life you will reach a point where you cant even feed so many mouths. And those “saved” lives will become nightmares. Look at US now – poverty levels, employment issues, foreclosures, absence of universal healthcare, education etc. Do you want people to live or just survive?
eleminatus 4 months ago
@eleminatus First off, our current economic crisis has nothing to do with the murdering of innocent babies. Both you and I know that. Second, we also know that it has nothing to do with the number of people living in the U.S. Third... Universal healthcare... Ya know, Canada has that same system. How's their healthcare. I happen to be friends with a Canadian... THEIR HEALTHCARE SUCKS BECAUSE IT'S UNIVERSAL!
Sageangel18000 4 months ago
@Sageangel18000 what the hell? how did you get to current economic crisis from what I wrote? Of course it has nothing to do with abortion. I dont even know how you got that correlation. I was talking about economical implications in general. In a country where 15% live in poverty, 11% dont have food everyday, 9% are unemployed and where 45000 die because they dont have healthcare (and tone of other sad statistics), you want to keep bringing babies? Then you are completely ignorant of reality!
eleminatus 4 months ago
@Sageangel18000 Look at Chinas example and how they control the birthrate (cant have more then 2 kids). US is taking same route. With present economical system you wont be able to supply everyone with jobs and social benefits. Those babies you are trying to save right now will be condemned! Why do you so desperately ignore the rest of the picture? Its not black and white, its not a simple choice of abort or not.
eleminatus 4 months ago
@Sageangel18000 You will understand when you start a family and enter the real world! Also, US is the only developed country in the WORLD which allows people to die just because they don’t have a healthcare covered. In my book, that’s worse then a universal healthcare! Try not to get into those 45.000 who die yearly just because of that!
eleminatus 4 months ago
@eleminatus Why the heck are we discussing healthcare reform when the topic is the murder of innocent children? Next, I live in the real world. I CAN'T AFFORD HEALTHCARE! Do you think that supplying everyone with the same government crap for healthcare is going to be a good thing? Wake up! Back to the murdering of innocent babies. Why...the heck... are you bringing completely unrelated matters into an abortion debate?
Sageangel18000 4 months ago
@Sageangel18000 are you even reading my comments? That same government crap, as you call it, saves lives in Europe and Canada. Look up how healthcare works in those countries before yelling "I cant afford". French healthcare is the best in the world and they spend HALF of what US spends per capita! And people dont die there because they cant afford basic needs! And if you think that economical implications are not related to abortion debate, just read some statistics!
eleminatus 4 months ago
@eleminatus @Sageangel18000
Girls Girls. You're both pretty. Save the arguments for PMs.
qwerty8me556 1 week ago
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@Sageangel18000 says: Next, saying that the fetus is not human but later becomes human goes directly against the scientific law of Biogenesis.
~~~~~~~~~ It becomes a human being at birth. Its always of the damned human species, what else could it be, plant life?
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@Sageangel18000 Look at women or couples that keep such children – often have to sacrifice education to support the child, have low income, turn to drugs and alcohol, even crime. Simply put, unwanted babies cause immense issues, though its not their fault! Now look at financial side – government has to spend money on these children and such dysfunctional families, if their parent or they upon growing up get into jail, government has to sustain them there too,
eleminatus 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 they often demand social security benefits and the list goes on. So no, its not about life or death, the picture is much bigger then you assume! Also, try not to be a hypocrite, when you start a family, adopt a kid or two and make your words your actions!
eleminatus 5 months ago
@eleminatus Do not confuse the issue here. If the unborn is not human, no argument against abortion would be needed. If the unborn is human, no argument for abortion would be adequate. The issue at hand here is whether or not the unborn baby is human. This has nothing to do with economics. The question is, is the unborn baby human?
Sageangel18000 5 months ago
@Sageangel18000 so you gonna insist on the tunnel vision; just pick one problem out of many. Its a packed topic, making it exclusively biological issue is dishonest at best. If you want biological hypothesis, I gave you mine. Then there are professionals who make actual decisions. And they made one! You wanna argue otherwise, go finish med-school and all the subsequent studies and then you get a viable word! Now, you, or me, can just speculate.
eleminatus 5 months ago
@eleminatus On the topic of teen moms, did I ever say that adoption was not an option? There are people out there that can't produce children due to problems with the mom's reproductive areas. They want to adopt. I also know a family that had two daughters... then they adopted... twice. Tell me, should the child be killed so the mother can feel better?
Sageangel18000 5 months ago
@eleminatus Where is my God? He's with everybody and is looking after everyone at all times. And actually, a fetus is a child. If I locked you in you closet for nine months, then during that time, would you not be a human? According to your logic, no. "A person is a person no matter how small."
Put the child up for adoption if you really don't want it.
I rest my case.
qwerty8me556 1 week ago
@qwerty8me556 what kind of analogy is that? Dont compare a fetus to an already born and grown human. Define a fetus what ever way you want, but in medical terms, its not a child. Its a cluster of cells, that will one day become a child. If your argument is simply about letting a fetus develop and live, then dont bother. Been there, done that. Its a weak argument. Your inability to detect any social and economical implications of your position makes it even weaker.
eleminatus 1 week ago
@eleminatus The fact that you can't realize that whether a person is old or dying, or still in the womb is still a person is just sad. Please leave me alone.
qwerty8me556 1 week ago
@qwerty8me556 understand the inception process before saying silly things!
eleminatus 1 week ago
@eleminatus Yes. You really need to understand that!
qwerty8me556 1 week ago
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@qwerty8me556 listen, its you who replied me. You want to present arguments and debate the issue? Be my guest. But stop with the juvenile "Yes. You really need to understand that!" replies and passive aggressive comments. I answered to your first comment, that there are social and economical (among other) implications of this issue. You can either address my argument and challenge me with yours, subsequently having a civilized debate. Or you can simply leave! Which one will it be?
eleminatus 1 week ago
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@qwerty8me556 oh.. and please look up some adoption statistics before so loosely saying "Put the child up for adoption". And if you want to continue this conversation, please, dont use the god nonsense. We are discussing issues of reality, not supernatural.
eleminatus 1 week ago
@Higsbeard and im not the one who should apply reason here. YOU are the one following ancient books and fairy tail morality. Everything you are advocating for is birth itself, when you dont even think what happens after that. You probably dont even have a clue how many families and children struggle every single day to survive. If thats what you want for your child then YOU are a barbarian. Look at the whole picture, not just a bit you like!
eleminatus 1 year ago
@Higsbeard You know that people actually like having sex, right? Or are you the creep who lives down the block and stares at cats a lot, that could explain it...
jupitarlove18 11 months ago
@Higsbeard YOU have no right to enforce slavery on to women.
jupitarlove18 11 months ago
damn right!
Halldor1994 1 year ago
Pro lifers should stop eating eggs if they love life.
HybridD91 1 year ago 8
@HybridD91 Great point!!!!
RushReamsBoyz 1 year ago
@HybridD91
I'm pretty sure chickens and humans aren't equal in society.
Higsbeard 1 year ago
but there are still options left -_-
bulgin18 1 year ago
What you guys don't understand is that THERE IS ALREADY TOO MANY PEOPLE ON THIS EARTH!!! Telling people to use a condom doesn't work, apparently. But if a woman wants to get an abortion it's obvious that she has reasoning for it. Don't tell me that if you were a teen who got pregnant and you want to keep it! For that's let's just have everyone around here getting pregnant at 13 and being happy to keep it!! Yay woohoo! I agree that you should keep your legs closed theory but I don't believe that
QtAlly101 1 year ago
'I am Pro-choice... I am not pro-abortion... I want women to have a choice..." JaguarJ0ones... U are intellectually dishonest... or just a fricken' retard... The woman's 'choice' that U speak of is 'abortion...' and this abortion takes another Citizen's life... Do U pal-around with the Whore of Babylon... she once said, 'I am Pro-work... I am not a Prostitute... I want woman to have a choice to earn money...' wtf...???
RalphMariedeLargo 1 year ago
@RalphMariedeLargo
The statement "I desire people to be free to choose A" does not mean "I desire people to choose A". You have failed at basic syntax, and then gone on to insult your intellectual superior in AOLspeak and terribly malformed religious analogies. Your argument is a sickening deformity that, ironically, should have been aborted.
rkyeun 1 year ago
@rkyeun
And you have failed at basic morals. No one should have the choice to legally do something that is evil. Should the Nazis have had the "freedom of choice" to kill Jews? What makes abortion any less evil than the Holocaust?
Higsbeard 1 year ago
@Higsbeard
You've got the argument reversed. You now have to prove abortion is evil.
rkyeun 1 year ago
@Higsbeard What the Nazis did had nothing to do with their own human rights but the human rights of others which they took away and for your information, it wasn't just Jews that were murdered in the holocaust. Abortion gives women the human right to control their own body. If that right was took away, then it would be exactly the same as the Nazis taking away the rights of the people caught up in the holocaust. Your argument goes against your beliefs and I dont understand why you have done that
sunderlandgrl 11 months ago
Juliewashere88...U define Pro-Life advocacy as ‘poking a troll...?’ wtf...? I missed Ur point because it was a lame and confusing vid... Lie to Urself but don’t throw do-do in my face... A mother makes her ‘choice’ and a human being is killed... If U Murder Mommies want an absolute birth-control then cut your womb from Ur body...before U murder another Citizen... Pro-choice is Abortion-Genocide and I demand that this atrocity be abolished...
RalphMariedeLargo 1 year ago
Fantastic video. I couldn't agree more!
juliewashere88 1 year ago
So how many years in prison should a girl who gets raped and then has an abortion serve? Logically it's infantacide, one of the most horrible things imagionable, completely premeditated (hired someone to do it). If a feotus is a human being with all the rights of a human being should women (girls, victoms of rape) be given the death penalty or life inprisonment?
If you don't think we should lock them up then you don't belive that unborn children actually have rights.
phookadude 1 year ago
JaguarJ0nes... Ur talk is cheap... U oppose a woman to be forced to have a murderous Abortion but U support a woman to choose to have a murderous Abortion...? wtf...? So U like murder if the woman chooses to murder otherwise Ur against abortion...? Ur woman's choice kills a life... Repent for i don't want U to burn in hell... Abolish Abortion-Genocide...
RalphMariedeLargo 1 year ago
@RalphMariedeLargo haha aborting a fetus takes no life. If something can not live without being attached to something else its hardly a person. At best its a parasite. Through the early stage of embryo development the fetus is indistinguishable from the fetus of any other animal really. Jaguar has a perfectly valid point that forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy is cruel whereas abortion is no more cruel than that burger you had for lunch. The fetus is less aware of its life than that cow was.
TheAmazingLeztits 1 year ago 3
@RalphMariedeLargo I know I'm poking a troll but...
The point, since you missed it, is that women should not be forced into either abortion or birth. They should be able to choose which they want to do and that choice, whatever it is, should be respected. It is absolutely unacceptable to force her to do one or the other.
That's what being pro-choice means. It means she gets to decide for herself what to do with her pregnancy. We don't care what she chooses so long as it was her choice.
juliewashere88 1 year ago
@juliewashere88 A women getting pregnant is actually another topic.
ChooseLifeIreland 1 year ago
@ChooseLifeIreland Why are you following me? That's creepy?
I don't see how you could find pregnant women to be a different topic than a discussion about... uh... pregnant women.
Do try to know what you're talking about if you're just going to stalk me and but in. This video was about pregnant women being able to freely choose and so was my comment.
juliewashere88 1 year ago
@juliewashere88 Apologies if you think you were followed.
ChooseLifeIreland 1 year ago
@ChooseLifeIreland I'm sorry, 'if I think I'm being followed'? Are you kidding me? You comment on my channel and not a few minutes after I post a comment on this video you replied to me. That's a pretty huge damned coincidence, don't you think?
At least the other people who do that admit it.
Hey, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do that, I'm just saying it's a little creepy that you're that interested in what I'm saying regardless of where I say it.
juliewashere88 1 year ago
Right on, Jaguar Jonesmeister! I get that pithy "pro-abort" appellation all the freaking time - and it pithes me off. I've been compelled to step outside of my own past and own up to my stance. It's not always pretty; it's not always painless; it's not always easy. But who made me Mastress of the Universe? No one - that's who. And now we kind of have a dead doctor - and it's kind of a massive problem.......
TheAxisBoldAsLove 1 year ago
err @silly fuckin video description
IF THAT WOMAN MADE THE CHOICE SHE NEEDS TO CARRY IT.
IF SHE WAS RAPED THIS IS DIFFERENT.
SHE SHOULDA CLOSED HER LEGS, SHE MADE HER CHOICE .
wizkid407 1 year ago
God is the most prolific abortionist.
SkeksisRule 1 year ago
It is obvious that you are a smart guy, and you are right, woman do deserve the choice, but having choosing between killing a person vs. not...what choice is to be made? I think it is obvious, no one has the right to kill a person, especially a defenceless baby. Women who don't want a baby, but get pregnant (by mistake or rape), still don't have the power to decide who lives and who dies. The reasons for abortion are numerous, but the end result is the same, a innocent baby always dies.
Shannon2993 1 year ago
@Shannon2993 A fetus is not a person. A fetus cannot make decisions on it's own, nor can it survive outside of it's host body (the mother).
SkeksisRule 1 year ago
@SkeksisRule Thank you, i was trying to deconstruct Shannon2993's argument, but they didn't respond, oddly enough.
AlexxxNZ 1 year ago
@SkeksisRule Maybe you should re word your arguement.....what about people who are "vegetables"? Can they make decisions by themselves? can they survive without their hosts?...think about it, a fetus is not much different than them, so does that make it ok to shred them to pieces too?
Shannon2993 1 year ago
@Shannon2993 A "vegetable" or comatose person does not rely on nutrients they absorb through a host body to live. They may rely on machines to help them breath or provide nutrition, but only because of injuries. Before their injuries they were a fully capable and independent person. Before a fetus developed inside of a female it was 2 single cells that joined and attached to the uterine lining. Fertilized eggs are commonly expelled during menstruation. So what is the big deal? Your point fails.
SkeksisRule 1 year ago
@SkeksisRule Ok maybe a comatose person was able to survive on their own by themselves, but what about people who are born that way? or should they have just been aborted? I have taken a biology class or two, so I know how a fetus is formed, and that sometimes, the body NATURALLY rejects the embryo, but when the opportunity of life is presented and the embryo is implanted in the uterine lining, who has the right to shred that life to pieces? Not me nor you, nor any person.
Shannon2993 1 year ago
@Shannon2993 "but when the opportunity of life is presented and the embryo is implanted in the uterine lining, who has the right to shred that life to pieces? Not me nor you, nor any person"
So you're saying that once a fertilized egg attaches to a woman's uterus, it now has more rights over her body than she does? I think not. It's a matter of choice. Your body, your choice. How would you like to be raped and then forced to have the child against your own will?
SkeksisRule 1 year ago
@SkeksisRule no it does not take over her body, but it is as much a life as her own, therefore its life is not any less valuable than that of her own.
"Your body, your choice"
You are right in a sense, you have sex, deal with the consequences, but you get raped? well that is different. Rape is an awful thing, and I wish it upon nobody. But rape has been happening since the beginning of time, and nothing we can do will ever stop it. So, why punish the baby for the act the father committed?
Shannon2993 1 year ago
@Shannon2993 Your arguments have all failed, but you refuse to accept it. You can't answer any of my questions because you would have to admit that you are wrong.
A woman has the right to do anything she wants with her body, including aborting a thing that is living inside of her, and no one can force her to carry an unwanted fetus to term. She does not automatically lose the right to make her own choice simply because a fertilized egg settles in her uterus.
SkeksisRule 1 year ago
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@SkeksisRule
"including aborting a thing that is living inside of her..." you used the word "living" telling me that deep down inside you know that there is life inside of her (no matter its "value").Since when is it ok to murder?
'She does not automatically lose the right to make her own choice simply because a fertilized egg settles in her uterus" She made the choice by allowing sex to happen. rape.....is rape, shit happens, get over it
Shannon2993 1 year ago
@Shannon2993 A fetus is about as valuable and unique as a baby chicken. How hard are they to make, really? They are not special.
SkeksisRule 1 year ago
I am Pro-Abortion. Too many damn skanks popping out babies and going on welfare.
RadioFreeWisconsin 1 year ago
Geez, the ratings for this vid are quite balanced, not in a good way.
But yeah, people need to get through their heads:
Pro-Choice =/= Pro-Abortion
Begeru 1 year ago
Egypt. There's more than one definition for the word "state".
budgiefly1 1 year ago
wth, if women have the right to kill ,everyone should have that right NO ONE SHOULD HAVE A RIGTH TO KILL!!!!!!
sashaj76 1 year ago
@sashaj76 Define kill....
AlexxxNZ 1 year ago
@AlexxxNZ taking the life of a person without their consent
Shannon2993 1 year ago
@Shannon2993 Now define person.
AlexxxNZ 1 year ago
abortion is green. If we don't stop reproducing so much we as a specials are going to be completely and utterly fucked
buzzkilla12 1 year ago
im killing babies right now its called spurm cells they die alll the time
hailTHEfail 1 year ago
Its a start, but all you have really done is express your opinion on how pro lifers are no better if not worse then people who force abortions on women. Using that rational, shouldn't post nately killing children also be legal too, for its the parent's choice to decide whether they want to keep them or not?
OhNoItsCommonSense 1 year ago
The only thing more cruel: murder!
tacos0up 1 year ago
Torture?
And you wouldn't be saying that if a pregnancy destroyed your hopes of a fulfilling life.
AkiThePirate 1 year ago
@AkiThePirate you wouldnt be saying that if abortion destroyed your life
tacos0up 1 year ago
I would, were I able to(I couldn't, because I wouldn't exist).
Had my mother had an abortion for a decent reason, I would consider her right to do so.
This argument is always the only one I'm presented with that isn't based on religion, too. Which depresses me. Try looking at things through an objective eye.
AkiThePirate 1 year ago
@AkiThePirate Oh, you would have existed then you would have died. Even if she has the legal right, she is still responsible for killing a person.
Besides, who said I'm religious. I value every person.
Try looking at things through a subjective eye, there is a real person. who really matters who needs protection from his or her mother, not to be taken to death
tacos0up 1 year ago
By that logic, why don't you make sure all life s treated nicely? Join PETA.
People are dying all the time(Doing anything about that?), and quite frankly, it's better to not live than live in misery.
Life is precious, but unborn life isn't more precious.
AkiThePirate 1 year ago
@tacos0up Couldn't have said it better myself.
OhNoItsCommonSense 1 year ago
If life is so precious, why aren't the "Pro-Lifers" picketing the many numerous fertility clinics with the millions of "unborn babies" that were created in-vitro but were not implanted in the woman? Many of these embryos will be destroyed because they are not needed, which is a good reason to use them and others created for stem cell research.
TheKilgoretrout 1 year ago
You talk in such a condescending tone yet can't spell "carry" correctly? Now THAT is someone I know *I* want to listen to! How in the world could forcing someone to have a baby be MORE cruel then making them KILL one they wish to have? Nope, not buying. I can see, though I disagree, how some may think it's "cruel" since society has convinced everyone that abortion is a perfectly logical "solution" to any and all pregnancies. But to say it's even MORE cruel? Wow, Two words for ya! Looney-Tunes!
RachelRenea 1 year ago
1. Aborting a healthy 8.5-month-old viable fetus that poses no unusual risks to the mom -- obviously immoral.
2. Forcing a rape-victim pregnant 9-year-old girl to carry to term a fetus lodged in her tubes (where risk of rupture and eventual bleeding to death is almost 100%) --- also obviously immoral.
There is no all-inclusive answer.
The specific case has to be considered (such as how developed and viable the fetus is), and admittedly, there has to be a somewhat arbitrary threshold determined.
themsfightinwoids 2 years ago
When caught protesting abortions, these people should recieve 10 children from the local orphanarium and be forced to take care of them until they are 18. If human life is so valuable to these people why don't they pick up the homeless too, or is it just the unborn they care about? After they come out F#$% em. Let them grow up with a parent that regrets having them, genius, thats not gonna breed any problems in society. Religion has the answer to everything yet the solution to nothing.
scuntpunter420 2 years ago 10
@scuntpunter420 So, your saying you support killing homeless people. They need to be taken care of. You seriosly think it is better to murder someone than to have more issues that need to be focused on?
tacos0up 1 year ago
abortion is legal idiot. that is why people are so ticked off.
willlovesjennifer 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There is Not a reason why any woman would need an Abortion.
Except if the Child were to be deformed or in a case of rape or incest.
There are So many different types of birth control available today, yet the U.S. has 1 million abortions done every year.
Woman, don't get an abortion, get your Tubes tied instead.
53dumey 2 years ago
@53dumey
Nice job contradicting yourself in one sentence.
And a lot of women want and have kids after an abortion, so tube tying is not always a solution.
loner1878 2 years ago 10
Interestingly enough, abortion rates are identical in states that allow and don't allow abortion.
So it becomes an issue of, "do you support medically safe abortion options?" or "do you support putting women on the street to get their abortions?"
Sadly, it really amounts to that.
snoman99991 2 years ago 35
Excellent point snoman, I always try to make that point to others and they just ignore it and say "but killing babies is wrong!". That has nothing to do with it because making it illegal will only make abortions unsafe and much more harmful, it wont stop them nor reduce them.
lindafay1 2 years ago
@snoman99991 Name one state where abortion is illegal.
OhNoItsCommonSense 1 year ago
Occasionally, contraception will fail, either through the rare defective, or through improper use.
And then we have the social conservatives, the 'abstinence only' crowd, who purposefully misinform people about contraceptives and sex, making them think it's pointless to use protection. However, people will still have sex. There's no changing that fact. That's why we have such a high unwanted pregnancy rate in America.
(Yes, late post, but I wanted to make sure you realized this.)
Anon11674 2 years ago
This audiovisual digital transmission suffered not one, but TWO automated voting offenses. That is just horrific!
MikeRaWare2 2 years ago 5
Well, what do you expect. If you can't offer up an argument just censor the one you don't like.
JaguarJ0nes 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I understand considering the plight of the woman, but what about the child? Which is more cruel, having a woman live through nine months of an unwanted pregnancy or denying a child a chance at life? I can support abortion if the child has severe deformities. (Some are so bad that their life would be hell.) As for rape, couldn't the victim receive counseling and then put the kid up for adoption once delivered? How would aborting heal the pain of rape? It's not the child's fault.
ThisClownis2in1 2 years ago
Either way, this issue is just tragic. If the child is carried to term and latter given up for adoption, what are it's chances of survival? Are their really that many people who would adopt all those kids? I guess their fucked anyway you look at it.
ThisClownis2in1 2 years ago
Ironically, the Bible does not actually condemn abortion specifically, not in the Old nor New Testament. Quite the contrary, in fact!
"Thou shalt not kill" is mistranslated and should be "thou shalt not MURDER." Murder is defined as the killing of a PERSON. So the key question is, when does PERSONHOOD begin, NOT when does HUMAN LIFE begin (that begins at conception)?
SEVEN TIMES in Numbers Chapter 3 ALONE, God says that only those of age ONE MONTH *AFTER* BIRTH and up are counted as Persons!
COMALiteJ 2 years ago
He says the same thing AGAIN in Numbers 27:62.
But wait, it gets BETTER!
In Leviticus Chapter 27 and Numbers Chapter 8, God assigns MONETARY VALUE to Persons based on their age and gender. Men of working / fighting age are the most valuable, and women less so. Senior citizens less valuable, older children and teenagers less valuable still, and babies and young children the least valuable.
But PRIOR to age ONE MONTH *AFTER* BIRTH, that value is ZERO! NONE! ZILCH! NADA! ZIPPO! AUGHT! GOOSE EGG!
COMALiteJ 2 years ago 4
But WAIT, it gets even BETTER!!
In Numbers Chapter 5 starting with verse 11, God COMMANDS a TEST for determining if a wife has been unfaithful to her husband (no vice-versa test). This test involves drinking water "that bringeth the curse" that has toxic dust added in. If she's guilty, the curse causes "her belly [womb] to swell and her thigh [groin, genitalia] to rot." These are symptoms of MISCARRIAGE!
Is the dust an ABORTIFACIENT? Did God actually COMMAND CHEMICALLY INDUCED *ABORTION*!?
COMALiteJ 2 years ago 17
@COMALiteJ
Oh, God was never against abortion. He commands people to run daggers through women and cut them open all through the old testament.
rkyeun 1 year ago
@rkyeun, yep. Numbers Chapter 31 (the whole chapter) for just one such example.
COMALiteJ 1 year ago
@COMALiteJ
I just re-read your comment.
And if I'm reading my Bible right, this gives men the power to divorce their wife at any time by knocking her up, CLAIMING that she was unfaithful, administering THE TEST WHICH CAUSES ABORTION, and then using the abortion as proof that she's committed adultery, resulting in her death by stoning.
Foolproof bronze age desert nomad middle eastern justice!
rkyeun 1 year ago 2
I see it like this. If God or whoever didn't want us to abort babies why would he have given us the knowledge to do it
Jonesymullet88 2 years ago