If you live in a home and drive a car, you are not a part of nature. Humans aren't predators like you sociopathic hunters want to think. Real predators are never acquire arteriosclerosis. Rabbits fed meat do---humans do.
I At one time people disregarded the rights of women, of black people, of animals, but now things have changed. Evolution! No, I will not discount the right of plants to live. They are doing you no harm. They grow, they thrive, they deserve better than to be picked at the peak of their health in order to fill some human's guts.
Steven Best makes a quantum leap in reasoning here, a kind of missing link in logic. He states that humans have rights, and so do animals. It is wrong for a person to hunt and kill an animal. Now here's the simple problem. It is wrong for humans to hunt and kill other humans, and, according to Best, it is wrong to do this to an animal. But then it would be wrong for a wolf to hunt and kill an elk. How can an animal with inalienable rights have them legitimately taken away by another animal? Hmm?
@LiteraryWriter Oy vey. Look, unlike a human being, a wolf needs to eat meat to survive. A human being does not need to eat a cheeseburger, a chicken wing, or a pork chop to survive. Why would we kill if we don't need to. You know, sometimes it's very hard to tell if you people either don't get it genuinely, or just choose not to get it.
@ElectricMayhem87 Do people need poetry? Music? Art? No, we don't. Poetry, music and art are not needs; they are wants. Using your logic, all poetry, music and art could be abolished. That actually happened under the Chernyshevskian utilitarianism of the Soviet Union. The leaders concluded that not all Art combined - all books, musical pieces, works of great architecture - all of it combined was not equal to one pair of shoes, or one piece of bread. You fall into this camp, I believe.
Electric, I passionately disagree with you, but I will say, whether this means anything to you or not, that I quite like you as a person. I hope you are not offended by that.
@ElectricMayhem87 We do not need to eat meat...possibly. But a wolf is a predator, a lion is a predator, fish are predators, birds are predators, even frogs are predators. A tremendous amount of animals are predators. And so is man. You may not like that reality, but it's true. Man is a predator and has been a predator from the beginning of his species. That is our essential nature.
@LiteraryWriter Do you believe in evolution? I only ask you this because I think that part of believing in evolution is believing that humans can move forward as a species, as I believe all species can. Surely, humans today don't need to kill for food the way our Neanderthal ancestors did. I've been a vegan for about a year now, and don't feel like I'm dying at all anytime soon.
@ElectricMayhem87 Lol. Yes, I do believe in a form of evolution, but you are not talking about physical evolution, you are talking about moral evolution. You think it is immoral to kill animals, including for food. I believe it is not immoral to hunt and kill, and it is not even immoral to raise animals who trust us and then kill them for human consumption. Is it wrong to kill flowers - to cut them and murder them - just so some woman can receive flowers on Mother's Day or for her birthday?
@LiteraryWriter It never ceases to amaze me how passionately moral animal rights people are for animals while simultaneously showing what can only be described as a pathological disregard for the lives of plants. I think you should join my group: PETOP. People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants.
@LiteraryWriter That is not facetious or sarcastic. Think about plants and trees just as you would a cow or a moose. They both live and die, are born and grow....And what about insects? What about those insects which are killed by the trillions in order to grow vegan food? They have every bit as much right and every bit as much desire to live as you do.
@LiteraryWriter That is not facetious or sarcastic. Think about plants and trees just as you would a cow or a moose. They both live and die, are born and grow....And what about insects? What about those insects which are killed by the trillions in order to grow vegan food? They have every bit as much right and every bit as much desire to live as you do.
@ElectricMayhem87 Good points. Man isn't a natural predator. Real predators never acquire arteriosclerosis, and it's the leading killer of american humans.
Someone will say, "well it's because our diet, as a whole, is unhealthy, not because of meat." The Inuits eat as natural as you can, and their 3rd leading cause of death, after suicide and lung disease, is heart disease.
Man is not a predator, despite what sociopathic hunters want to think.
@ElectricMayhem87 And the absolute inescapable truth is that even vegans slaughter and destroy tremendous amounts of living creatures who have done you no wrong. A plant, at the height of its health, is massacred for human consumption. Why is this acceptable? Because people feel pain and plants, possibly, do not feel pain as we do. That's it! The justification. Kill them because they are not like us. It's the same argument hunters use to kill deer. Plants are living creatures. You murder them.
@LiteraryWriter Jesus Christ, if I had a dime for every time I heard someone make an argument for plants rights, I'd be a damn millionaire. Listen, I really, really hope that you are actually able to tell the difference between when someone picks an apple from a tree or mows their lawn and when someone slits the throat of a hen or puts a captive bolt through a bull's head, because these are not the same thing.
@LiteraryWriter Somehow I get the feeling you don't, just like I get the feeling from people who say "how can you bitch about animal rights when so many humans need help?" don't give a flip about human rights except when it's convenient for them.
@ElectricMayhem87 I care about insects, plants and animals almost equally. For me there is a clear and definitive line between humans and all other forms of life. If I swat a mosquito I have not committed murder, for instance. If I eat an apple, I have not committed cannibalism, but in the animal rights ideology, if a person eats a burger, that is cannibalism because there is no appreciable difference between man and animal. To me that is insane and a manifestation of absolute arrogance.
@ElectricMayhem87 By the way, I am a vocal supporter of human rights for all people: Muslims, homosexuals, bisexuals, the Ku Klux Klan, black people, the Hell's Angels, animal rights people - all people, in my world, have the right to freely express themselves, to associate and to assemble.
@ElectricMayhem87 I feel a tremendous aversion for all religions, including Buddhism, but I am a passionate supporter of freedom of conscience and religion.
@ElectricMayhem87 I have to go now. Maybe we'll meet again. Drop by my YouTube account and say hello sometime. Like I say, I passionately disagree with you, but I like you as a person. Click on LiteraryWriter at the bottom of a post and drop by. All the best!
@ElectricMayhem87 And I'll tell you why the animal rights movement is a manifestation of arrogance. Because it is a European-driven sensibility in which man is separate from nature. Man is not part of nature, man is on a higher plane than nature, a caretaker. That is the contradiction. Think of indigenous societies: Inuit, African tribes, etc. - they all hunt; it is inconceivable not to hunt. Animal rights was born out of a mindset in which man is beyond nature, a demigod.
I agree about the enslavement of the earth. The earth has been raped. Hunting, however, is the ultimate renewable resource. Seal fur can be harvested sustainably year after year, but coats you wear are made through the massive use of dangerous and finite fossil fuels, most likely.
Anyone that disagrees with your Disney deluded perversions are ignorant?
Should my children become vegan, thats fine, if they should reach that decision by their own rational thought, not by the emotional drivel commonly spouted by activists.
Animals already have rights. Animal cruelty laws exist. Perhaps they should be modified, but to claim any non-vegan person is immoral is far more ignorant than any statement I have ever made.
@TTSinPA You're the only idiot I see here. Animal rights/liberation philosophy isn't driven by "emotion"; it's simple logic. Why kill if you don't need to (humans don't need meat)? Why test on animals if you learn nothing about human illness from it (only 2% of diseases found in humans occur in animals)? Why enslave animals in circuses and rodeos if you don't need to?
@ElectricMayhem87 Here's a logical problem. Rights are reciprocal. At one time people, even in America, believed rights extended only to white men; women and black people were excluded. This is fundamentally opposed by today's standards. Rights are reciprocal and must be given to whites and women and blacks. But in your theory, animals do not need to give other animals those rights. They have an exemption. Best continually says animals are no different from humans - you fundamentally disagree.
TTSinpa: Your ignorance astounds me. I hope you don't have any children so they won't be tainted by your stupidity. Better yet, I hope you do have children and that they become vegan and enlighten you.
Human testing already exists, and is the only current step at which we can find out whether the drug is truly harmless to us. Steps should be taken to avoid exploiting poverty, but maybe there already has been, I don't know? Really, abolishing animal testing would be as selfishly advantageous as it would be advantageous to non-human animals.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
ALF are terrorists because they are enforcing their unwanted views by fear and intimidation of PEOPLE. Calling a farmer the 'real terrorist' is a joke. The flaw in your misguided philosophy is that while animals deserve consideration, they are not equal to people. You propose nothing less than altering the world's entire food chain, which has worked from the dawn of time without your help.
"Animal liberation is a very practical step taken from the philosophy of animal rights". This guy is an idiot. I'd demand my money back if my child went to a school that he taught in. Noble is researchers working to prevent and limit human disease and suffering. NEEDLESS testing and cruelty being ended is a noble goal. Ending ALL research, pets, and food is stupid.
He dismisses our differences with animals, yet he only acknowledges the similarities he condones. We are all sentient, he preaches, and ALL predators and prey in the 'natural' world are sentient, and able to feel pain. How is it OK for every species to hunt, except man? There is NO 'animal rights' doctrine to explain this inequity, because the premise is unsound.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Granting rights to other people is a long way from granting rights to animals. I guess mosquitoes have rights too, right? I'm sure they are self aware and capable of feeling pain. To claim animals have the 'right' to not be hunted is the most unrealistic, stupid thing I've ever heard. Every species on earth will have the 'right' to hunt EXCEPT humans. This makes NO sense.
Pharma drugs,and agrochemicals,harm and kill alot of people every yr of every day we "Live".Why want more "testing" to pass this poisonous stuff through? Whether through human or animal testing-both human and animal lose :(
I am 1,000% behind ALF. Testing on the animals is pointless since they don't use makeup or any soaps!! It's cruel and inhumane. They have feelings just like us but show it in a different way. Use humans all the way. What about prisoners? There in for a reason after all. Leave the animals alone!!
If you live in a home and drive a car, you are not a part of nature. Humans aren't predators like you sociopathic hunters want to think. Real predators are never acquire arteriosclerosis. Rabbits fed meat do---humans do.
Heart disease is the leading killer of Americans.
gyrate4 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I At one time people disregarded the rights of women, of black people, of animals, but now things have changed. Evolution! No, I will not discount the right of plants to live. They are doing you no harm. They grow, they thrive, they deserve better than to be picked at the peak of their health in order to fill some human's guts.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
Comment removed
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
Jesus Christ, if I had a dime for every time I heard someone make an argument for animal rights!
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
Steven Best makes a quantum leap in reasoning here, a kind of missing link in logic. He states that humans have rights, and so do animals. It is wrong for a person to hunt and kill an animal. Now here's the simple problem. It is wrong for humans to hunt and kill other humans, and, according to Best, it is wrong to do this to an animal. But then it would be wrong for a wolf to hunt and kill an elk. How can an animal with inalienable rights have them legitimately taken away by another animal? Hmm?
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@LiteraryWriter Oy vey. Look, unlike a human being, a wolf needs to eat meat to survive. A human being does not need to eat a cheeseburger, a chicken wing, or a pork chop to survive. Why would we kill if we don't need to. You know, sometimes it's very hard to tell if you people either don't get it genuinely, or just choose not to get it.
ElectricMayhem87 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 Do people need poetry? Music? Art? No, we don't. Poetry, music and art are not needs; they are wants. Using your logic, all poetry, music and art could be abolished. That actually happened under the Chernyshevskian utilitarianism of the Soviet Union. The leaders concluded that not all Art combined - all books, musical pieces, works of great architecture - all of it combined was not equal to one pair of shoes, or one piece of bread. You fall into this camp, I believe.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@LiteraryWriter For the most part, no one dies to produce art, poetry, or music, though.
ElectricMayhem87 1 year ago
Comment removed
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
Respond to this video...In the building of Saint Basil's Cathedral, Russia's finest Christian Orthodox Church, thousands died during construction.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
Electric, I passionately disagree with you, but I will say, whether this means anything to you or not, that I quite like you as a person. I hope you are not offended by that.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 We do not need to eat meat...possibly. But a wolf is a predator, a lion is a predator, fish are predators, birds are predators, even frogs are predators. A tremendous amount of animals are predators. And so is man. You may not like that reality, but it's true. Man is a predator and has been a predator from the beginning of his species. That is our essential nature.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@LiteraryWriter Do you believe in evolution? I only ask you this because I think that part of believing in evolution is believing that humans can move forward as a species, as I believe all species can. Surely, humans today don't need to kill for food the way our Neanderthal ancestors did. I've been a vegan for about a year now, and don't feel like I'm dying at all anytime soon.
ElectricMayhem87 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 Lol. Yes, I do believe in a form of evolution, but you are not talking about physical evolution, you are talking about moral evolution. You think it is immoral to kill animals, including for food. I believe it is not immoral to hunt and kill, and it is not even immoral to raise animals who trust us and then kill them for human consumption. Is it wrong to kill flowers - to cut them and murder them - just so some woman can receive flowers on Mother's Day or for her birthday?
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@LiteraryWriter It never ceases to amaze me how passionately moral animal rights people are for animals while simultaneously showing what can only be described as a pathological disregard for the lives of plants. I think you should join my group: PETOP. People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@LiteraryWriter That is not facetious or sarcastic. Think about plants and trees just as you would a cow or a moose. They both live and die, are born and grow....And what about insects? What about those insects which are killed by the trillions in order to grow vegan food? They have every bit as much right and every bit as much desire to live as you do.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LiteraryWriter That is not facetious or sarcastic. Think about plants and trees just as you would a cow or a moose. They both live and die, are born and grow....And what about insects? What about those insects which are killed by the trillions in order to grow vegan food? They have every bit as much right and every bit as much desire to live as you do.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 Good points. Man isn't a natural predator. Real predators never acquire arteriosclerosis, and it's the leading killer of american humans.
Someone will say, "well it's because our diet, as a whole, is unhealthy, not because of meat." The Inuits eat as natural as you can, and their 3rd leading cause of death, after suicide and lung disease, is heart disease.
Man is not a predator, despite what sociopathic hunters want to think.
gyrate4 8 months ago
@ElectricMayhem87 And the absolute inescapable truth is that even vegans slaughter and destroy tremendous amounts of living creatures who have done you no wrong. A plant, at the height of its health, is massacred for human consumption. Why is this acceptable? Because people feel pain and plants, possibly, do not feel pain as we do. That's it! The justification. Kill them because they are not like us. It's the same argument hunters use to kill deer. Plants are living creatures. You murder them.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@LiteraryWriter Jesus Christ, if I had a dime for every time I heard someone make an argument for plants rights, I'd be a damn millionaire. Listen, I really, really hope that you are actually able to tell the difference between when someone picks an apple from a tree or mows their lawn and when someone slits the throat of a hen or puts a captive bolt through a bull's head, because these are not the same thing.
ElectricMayhem87 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 I see animals the exact same way you see plants.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@LiteraryWriter Somehow I get the feeling you don't, just like I get the feeling from people who say "how can you bitch about animal rights when so many humans need help?" don't give a flip about human rights except when it's convenient for them.
ElectricMayhem87 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 I care about insects, plants and animals almost equally. For me there is a clear and definitive line between humans and all other forms of life. If I swat a mosquito I have not committed murder, for instance. If I eat an apple, I have not committed cannibalism, but in the animal rights ideology, if a person eats a burger, that is cannibalism because there is no appreciable difference between man and animal. To me that is insane and a manifestation of absolute arrogance.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@LiteraryWriter I'd say the way human beings have enslaved the earth and the animals reeks of arrogance.
ElectricMayhem87 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 By the way, I am a vocal supporter of human rights for all people: Muslims, homosexuals, bisexuals, the Ku Klux Klan, black people, the Hell's Angels, animal rights people - all people, in my world, have the right to freely express themselves, to associate and to assemble.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 I feel a tremendous aversion for all religions, including Buddhism, but I am a passionate supporter of freedom of conscience and religion.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 It was nice to meet you, by the way. Thank you for the spirited conversation.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 I have to go now. Maybe we'll meet again. Drop by my YouTube account and say hello sometime. Like I say, I passionately disagree with you, but I like you as a person. Click on LiteraryWriter at the bottom of a post and drop by. All the best!
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 And I'll tell you why the animal rights movement is a manifestation of arrogance. Because it is a European-driven sensibility in which man is separate from nature. Man is not part of nature, man is on a higher plane than nature, a caretaker. That is the contradiction. Think of indigenous societies: Inuit, African tribes, etc. - they all hunt; it is inconceivable not to hunt. Animal rights was born out of a mindset in which man is beyond nature, a demigod.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
I agree about the enslavement of the earth. The earth has been raped. Hunting, however, is the ultimate renewable resource. Seal fur can be harvested sustainably year after year, but coats you wear are made through the massive use of dangerous and finite fossil fuels, most likely.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
Anyone that disagrees with your Disney deluded perversions are ignorant?
Should my children become vegan, thats fine, if they should reach that decision by their own rational thought, not by the emotional drivel commonly spouted by activists.
Animals already have rights. Animal cruelty laws exist. Perhaps they should be modified, but to claim any non-vegan person is immoral is far more ignorant than any statement I have ever made.
TTSinPA 2 years ago
wtf? these people aint gonna listen.
and also many poeple undermine laws. 80 % of our cattle come from Brazil.
Mennismervice 2 years ago
@TTSinPA You're the only idiot I see here. Animal rights/liberation philosophy isn't driven by "emotion"; it's simple logic. Why kill if you don't need to (humans don't need meat)? Why test on animals if you learn nothing about human illness from it (only 2% of diseases found in humans occur in animals)? Why enslave animals in circuses and rodeos if you don't need to?
ElectricMayhem87 1 year ago
@ElectricMayhem87 Here's a logical problem. Rights are reciprocal. At one time people, even in America, believed rights extended only to white men; women and black people were excluded. This is fundamentally opposed by today's standards. Rights are reciprocal and must be given to whites and women and blacks. But in your theory, animals do not need to give other animals those rights. They have an exemption. Best continually says animals are no different from humans - you fundamentally disagree.
LiteraryWriter 1 year ago
TTSinpa: Your ignorance astounds me. I hope you don't have any children so they won't be tainted by your stupidity. Better yet, I hope you do have children and that they become vegan and enlighten you.
sacredstarlett 2 years ago
w0lfsaben - Please watch this: safermedicinesDOTorg/safermedicines/video.shtml
Human testing already exists, and is the only current step at which we can find out whether the drug is truly harmless to us. Steps should be taken to avoid exploiting poverty, but maybe there already has been, I don't know? Really, abolishing animal testing would be as selfishly advantageous as it would be advantageous to non-human animals.
navidsonpuzzle 3 years ago
test
navidsonpuzzle 3 years ago
fuck you TT
Mennismervice 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
ALF are terrorists because they are enforcing their unwanted views by fear and intimidation of PEOPLE. Calling a farmer the 'real terrorist' is a joke. The flaw in your misguided philosophy is that while animals deserve consideration, they are not equal to people. You propose nothing less than altering the world's entire food chain, which has worked from the dawn of time without your help.
TTSinPA 4 years ago
"Animal liberation is a very practical step taken from the philosophy of animal rights". This guy is an idiot. I'd demand my money back if my child went to a school that he taught in. Noble is researchers working to prevent and limit human disease and suffering. NEEDLESS testing and cruelty being ended is a noble goal. Ending ALL research, pets, and food is stupid.
TTSinPA 4 years ago
He dismisses our differences with animals, yet he only acknowledges the similarities he condones. We are all sentient, he preaches, and ALL predators and prey in the 'natural' world are sentient, and able to feel pain. How is it OK for every species to hunt, except man? There is NO 'animal rights' doctrine to explain this inequity, because the premise is unsound.
TTSinPA 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Granting rights to other people is a long way from granting rights to animals. I guess mosquitoes have rights too, right? I'm sure they are self aware and capable of feeling pain. To claim animals have the 'right' to not be hunted is the most unrealistic, stupid thing I've ever heard. Every species on earth will have the 'right' to hunt EXCEPT humans. This makes NO sense.
TTSinPA 4 years ago
Pharma drugs,and agrochemicals,harm and kill alot of people every yr of every day we "Live".Why want more "testing" to pass this poisonous stuff through? Whether through human or animal testing-both human and animal lose :(
VeganTruthist1 4 years ago
I am 1,000% behind ALF. Testing on the animals is pointless since they don't use makeup or any soaps!! It's cruel and inhumane. They have feelings just like us but show it in a different way. Use humans all the way. What about prisoners? There in for a reason after all. Leave the animals alone!!
TH8007 4 years ago
If testing on animals is prohibited, all that is left is human testing, and generally the humans willing to be tested on are the poor.
w0lfsaben 4 years ago