@TheTyrell415 BM is the most evil person who calls himself a christian I know. If you are not BM, my sincier apologiy. Let me ask you this. What is gehenna?
Mecca in Saudi Arabia is the woman that rides the scarlet beast. Mecca sits on seven mountains. Five kings have fallen (Rev 17) and one is in Saudi Arabia today. One of the kings (Rev 13 and Rev 17) received a fatal wound; he is the king who was and is not and will come. He will ascend the bottomless pit and go to destruction. He, is not, because of the fatal wound. Mecca's port Jidda is the wealthiest port in the middle east and western asia.go to meccasevenmountains dot blogspot dot com
YouTube videos from well-known theologians will almost inevitably have comments from atheists decrying Christianity. What they seek to accomplish, I don't know, but they do it.
@stitch99 I think they seek to further understanding about the true nature of faith and christianity by exploring its strengths and weakness's. Gold is purified in fire right? I myself was a christian for 38 years until very recently. It is good to question but only the brave and those who sincerley seek truth dare ask and only the truly wise can recognise the truth when it frightens them.
Love never fails. God will never fail. If He truly loves people, He wouldn't torture them for all of eternity. Love & eternal torment cannot go together. God is just, yes, but He is not cruel.
1 Tim 4:10- This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
1 John 2:2- He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
UNIVERSAL SALVATION was for me a HERESY, people pleasing idea until I saw passages like this.
Romans 5:19 "for as through the disobedience of the one man,THE MANY were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall THE MANY be constituted righteous."
If you take the book of revelation as the end of Gods plan then of course universal salvation would not make sense; but if you look at Paul's writings and see God will be "all in ALL" then you see love Never fails.
@TomFynn if you knew, there is a difference you see it as insane because you have justified your sins by your own judgement, but you are not the judge, God is the only perfect holy and righteous judge, and if you do not put your faith and trust in the Son of God, you condemn yourself and die in your sin, meaning God's Wrath was not satisfied for you in the death of Christ, "seek me with all your heart and you shall find me"
@CosmicGrounds The message of the cross is: insanity, pure and simple. Thinking that the fairy tale of a Jewish zombie who magically made the world better by dying (or not dying or whatever) has any merit is complete and utter lunacy.
"The message of the cross is: insanity, pure and simple. Thinking that the fairy tale of a Jewish zombie who magically made the world better by dying (or not dying or whatever) has any merit is complete and utter lunacy."
"For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools,"
@TomFynn You just shot yourself on the foot.. Most of the proverbs that you used comes from the Bible.. Unless you dont speak English at all, chances are you are using biblical lines in your daily conversation.. Your TomFynn 1:1 flopped at the first chapter and first verse..
@TomFynn Very postmodern of you. Question, what is to keep you from saying that about a 20 year old book? Or a 2 year old book. What is to keep you from living only in the present moment, isolated from connection to and understand with anybody? You and J Alfred Prufrock would get along except that each of you is too busy being enervated to communicate.
@TomFynn I actually don't like postmodernism. I think its a huge mistake and a mental trap for people. It seems like you instinctively reject it too, except, of course, when you wish to. I recommend watching Ravi Zacharias, Michael Ramsden, John Lennox & WLC. Wouldn't it be tragic if you rejected something you really didn't understand?
@quakerman7 John Lennox? The guy who did not understand Darwin nor Dawkins? WLC? The guy who did not understand *anything*? Ravi Zacharias? The source of all gobbledygook? Michael Ramsden...googeling...googeling...ah, *more* gobbledygook.
I reject people who do not even understand basic science, but pretend they still have anything to contribute towards the nature of the universe.
If hell is real, then why was it first revealed by cat worshiping Egyptians, then adapted by the pagan Greeks, before being stolen and reinvented by Christians? (Notice Jews had better sense and never established a hell doctrine before Christ.)
Where does the "deep down inside everybody knows" come from, if not the culture in which you accidentically were brought up to punish your imperfect created human guilty sinful self with a constant repenting bad conscience? And if not crushed and gone insane from fear replacing denial with faith, you might soon have your worst horrific hellish nightmares comming true, to last for ever. Like (what ever happened to) ever lasting love.
no one has an understanding of hell in this earth unless they have been there in a near death experience. I have had that happen to me I have seen hell and I will tell you it is a place no one wants to go. I repented afterward but I will also tell you that people don't believe it is real nor do they have the power to repent without the holy spirit. Tell people to ask Jesus to reveal himself to them if he is real. They need to know for themselves.
there is not a drop of evidence that hell is eternal and if you think so then by all mean send my a message and I will gladly refute your argument : )
And really, there are those out there that say, well, I just don't believe in this Heaven or Hell stuff. And that a Christian is just wasting his or her time. Fair enough. But, however, someone will be right and someone will be wrong. The Christian has MUCH less to lose in their wrong decision, than a non-believer does. For the unbeliever, why put your eternity in jeopardy all because you can't reason or grasp the concept of a Heaven or Hell? That isn't wise.
Your statement is essentially Pascal's Wager. It takes nothing more than a visit to the relevant page at Wikipedia to see the logical fallacy in this argument.
A long debunked argument called Pascal's wager, if you take that seriously you'd also have to convert to every religion to avoid every potential God's punishment, and that's not even possible because they all (including different Christian denominations) contradict eachother
In listening to this video, I definitely agree with John Piper. Inside all men there is a conscience. There is both a sense of justice as well as a recognition of the "rights" and "wrongs" as well as guilt in life. Some may say, well, our moral code was comprised of the beliefs of men, yeah, but where did that inspiration come from to begin with? It came from God/Jesus. By human nature, most people like to make light of or distance themselves from anything that is uncomfortable to deal with.
This statement is simply untrue. Some people are entirely without conscience; traditionally they are called "psychopaths." It is an officially recognized and well-documented thing.
My conscience doesn't "convict" me when I "sin", sure I feel bad if I hurt someone, but I don't feel bad for not preserving the Sabbath and keeping it holy, or "looking with lust" not to mention there is a clinically documented psychological disorder where one has no conscience called antisocial personality disorder, so did God just forget to give them one?
Didn't St Paul write that God hardens people's hearts? In other words, he predestines them to sin and disbelieve than punishes them for it. Furthermore, it still refutes Piper and MrCharisma25's claim that deep down our conscience is convicting us, hence our blowing off of hell.
@redcommander27 sort of. but he does not cause manto sin tho. man allowshimself to be conditionedto theshallow pleasures of this world instead of living a fulfilling life and following God's decrees so God allows mans heart to be hardened by sin that MAN has created, not God, the lord finds favor in certain men but we all have the opportunity to be saved and we do have free will, thats the best answer I can give. he is mysterious and I don't understand everything but he is good and i trust him.
@redeemedbychrist1 Well to us "sinners" the the pleasures of the world aren't shallow, the world is all we are capable of empirically observing and anything beyond it is anybody's guess, therefore we're not willing to abandon them without sufficient evidence as to why we should. I thought noone is righteous, why does God convict some over others? And the "lord works in mysterious ways" defense is a copout to hard questions in my opinion. Nonetheless, I appreciate your politeness,
@redcommander27 You're right in your assertion that no one is righteous. In answer to your question about why God convicts some and not others, the answer is Christ. Some choose to have his righteousness applied to them by accepting the free gift of grace, others spurn the love Christ showed for them on the Cross and condemn themselves. I don't know you. You're a handle on the internet, but I'm begging you to forget about all the silly controversies and trust in Christ. He's changed my life.
The controversies aren't silly at all, your asking me to trust someone who has no contemporaneous historical evidence of their existence and who if they are real, is torturing my dearly departed grandfather forever now. I don't doubt that religion (James 1:27) changes people's lives, but that doesn't prove that it is true. Also your theology seems Arminian, wouldn't God convert my heart regardless of my choices?
The documents that do mention him are far after his death and contain secondhand information, there is not a single contemporaneous mention of him which is strange, though he probably existed, historically, very little can be known about him.
@redcommander27 It's not strange at all. There are very few original manuscripts we have from ancient figures of history, and some thingswe need to remember about historical figures from this period of time. There are amazingly few manuscripts of ANY text written during Jesus' time, and historians of this period wrote little of religious figures. Jesus was active for a very short period of time (just three years) and administered in a very remote corner of the Roman Empire.
People say hell casually because they don't believe in it, regardless of whether its real or not, not because they do believe in it and are denying it to themselves. To those who disbelieve in hell, its as real to them as the bogeyman's bag and thus they feel no reason to fear it.
Understanding judgment . It is something close to the heart and mind of God. Normally, folks just want to not think about the judgments of God. I know this is a video about hell, but the believer also needs to understand the potential terribleness of our own judgment at the judgment seat of Christ. We get judged first. 1 Peter 4:17
I really have been looking for someone to answer a question of mine. If hell is real, and as normally described, misery, eternal, then would it not make sense for someone to try to wipe out the human race so no new people would be born and potentially end up there? Wouldn't that actually be merciful? This thought scares me because I believe a radical Christian might one day have this thought and the capability to pull it off. This stupid doctrine must end.
@bweber88 That wouldn't follow logically for a christian.. as the doctrine of christianity teaches that the preaching of the gospel is the remedy to persons being subject to the wrath of God in hell. A christian who would try to kill everyone would also have an unchristian eschatology as he/she would try to end everything as the Bible does not. What you have posited would not be a christian.. a radical yes.. but not a christian.
@rizzumz I don't think it matters whether or not they classify as a christian. The point is that it still makes sense to take that drastic action if hell is what christians teach it is. In this case it would be the most merciful thing to do, even if it is unchristian.
@bweber88 Well lets just assume hypothetically one did kill everyone. And lets say that one of those persons would have heard the gospel and been converted the day after he died. It would not have been a merciful act to have killed him/her before salvation. The problem with saying its merciful is that you are assuming the position of God and defining mercy. You might say his one life is better than many more dying though you can give no objective logical basis for such thought.
@rizzumz Well in the case of people currently alive, yes what you say would be a problem. But, what I propose would save from hell all those people not yet conceived. sure there might be people not yet conceived that would have gone to heaven, but i'm not a gambling person so why risk it? It's not worth the risk. It simply would be better if the whole system just stopped.
@rizzumz And, it would be a merciful act in regards to all those people not yet conceived. Think of the non-conceived being presented with an option...heads eternal happiness, tails eternal misery. Would you take that bet????? cause if his version of hell is true there's way less than 50% making it into heaven. My theory gives a third and superior option which is neither. All bets off. No one takes part and that way no one gets hurt. And, no one knows what they're missing.
@bweber88 Realistically you would have saved noone. A person not born can neither be saved nor unsaved as they aren't alive. If i killed your parents before they conceived you i would not have prevented you from being conceived there would simply be no such thing as you. To kill everyone.. send some immediately to heaven, and some to hell would be the only thing accomplished. You wouldn't save future generations as there is no such thing to be saved.
@rizzumz Well lets just take me for example then. If your dogma is right I will be heading to hell. If that really turns out to be true I personally would have much preferred someone to HAVE wiped out humanity, preventing me from even existing. I would miss out on what life I have but I'd gladly trade that for an eternity in hell. What I'm saying is that it's NOT worth the risk.
@bweber88 I understand what you're saying.. realistically though you couldn't prefer anything had anyone wiped out your predecessor because you would have never have existed anyway. You would first have to exist to prefer existing or not existing. Its the same reason why its impossible to say God caused himself into being. There is no risk.. there is a sure salvation, Jesus Christ. Now if one rejects that salvation, as many do, he condemns himself.
@rizzumz Simply said, there is a Holy God and there is wretched man. His only salvation from this God's wrath is Jesus Christ. Who the loving God has substituted to fulfill his wrath upon. He calls out, come to him, repent, believe, and be saved.
@rizzumz No I couldn't prefer anything, but what I can say is that I believe most unborn people once born and put in the situation I'm in would say the same thing as I have. They'd say, "It would have been better for me to not have been born." Recognize that one? What the hypothetical would do IS ACTUALLY PREVENT PEOPLE FROM HAVING TO FACE THAT SITUATION.
@bweber88 I'll respond to the personal message a little later on.. Its funny you would say "it would have been better for me to not have been born" This is the same thing the devil says in paradise lost. What can be said of a person though. One who chooses rebellion repeatedly but because of the consequences wishes he were not placed in the position to decide. Thats like committing a crime and then saying I wish i wasn't born when put into prison.
@rizzumz The heart of a man who thinks that way isn't in disbelief of punishment but in belief of its guilt not wanting its punishment. One who would say "i'd prefer i wasn't born" is in effect saying. I understand i am justly guilty and deserve punishment and i wish i was never born so that i would not be guilty. Its almost funny the way the things you say make an admittance of what you profess to disbelieve but it is written in romans 1:18.
@rizzumz No, what I'm saying is that I would rather have not been born into a world where things like disbelief in supernatural claims are considered a crime worthy of the punishment of hell. This is just ridiculous.
@bweber88 thats why its logically inconsistent for a christian or sane person to do such a thing. If there is a hell and there is salvation from that hell, which there is, the gospel of Jesus Christ, then the logical thing to do is vehemently proclaim that gospel not exterminate the human race. Do you see our deprivation. You've proposed killing off our entire kind as a means to save it? and from who.. the Creator.. as if we the creation could subvert his plans.
@rizzumz It's not inconsistent, think of it another way. The christian who commits the murder of the human race could actually be seen as performing a REAL sacrifice because he would be condemned to hell for it. If you think about the numbers I sent in the personal message you could even say that this person would have performed a greater sacrifice than Christ because in the long run he would have saved more people from hell than Christ did.
@rizzumz I say a real sacrifice because they would be doing it knowing they'd burn for eternity in consequence, as opposed to knowing that they'd rise again in 3 days and rule the universe for eternity.
@bweber88 No...it's not a real sacrifice to reject the gospel and Christ who is the subject of the gospel....it is pride and inflation of self that rejects Christ and the gospel.
He's right in a sense: if hell was real it would drive everybody insane. The real question is how someone can claim so absurdly that an all loving God created hell!?
I understand why Hell exists since if human sins continually to the point of Judgement Day without accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour, if you think about it, the human would be sinning forever and no judgment can be passed unless there is limited amount time to judge,because he would send adults who been have not accepted Jesus Christ as their saviour nor repented, God automatically rescues young children and babies in the Rapture when they die in their young age into Heaven
@JohnnieNaked Because hell is God's judgment on those who live in sin and do not live according to the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is Gods just punishment for all who has sinned because he has to punish sin in order to be just. Because God is life, he has to punish that which leads to death (sin) with death itself, since sin and death is opposite of God, Therefore a just punishment for our human actions that is opposed to God is eternal death since that is the root of sin.
That's ridiculous. God can do anything. He can say, you know what? Mercy is more important than my pride I will absolve these people from eternal torment they only have to do a few years. These people only have to do a few months. And he can make the punishment merciful too. He doesn't need to torture anyone, since that would drive you insane anyway. He can lock someone up for a while to show them they need him. Or he could even do that NOW, just show up...why doesn't he just show up?
@JohnnieNaked Its not his pride that is at stake in terms of what you are describing, it would be inconsistent with his very nature and disprove him as God. You see you need to understand that God is a Holy God as he describes himself over and over again in the bible, that means that anything that contradicts him cannot be in his presence, it has to be expelled by his wrath which is his righteous response to sin. Tolerating just one bit of sin and not giving it due punishment discredits Him
@JohnnieNaked Essentially it makes him not God in relation to what he has said he is. God would be contradicting himself if he does what you are suggesting. You see you are looking at this from a western perspective, God is looking at it from an eternal perspective, because he is eternal according to the bible.
@JohnnieNaked Sin leads to death, God is life, so if God does not punish sin it would make him NOT life, but rather compromise his integrity and show that he is not God at all. Since the very definition of God is that he is perfect in every way we sometimes think that we can pick the categories we want him to be good in, but his good in all. This means we lack the perspective to understand the whole picture based on the limited perspective we have as humans
That's a pretty bad contradiction. You say god is life but needs to impune death upon others or he wouldn't be life. That's like saying I'm not alive unless I kill people.
"This means we lack the perspective to understand the whole picture based on the limited perspective we have as humans"
Yes of course, not only does god seem unjust, unfair, and cruel, he also makes himself impossible to understand, and then punishes us for not understanding him. Sorry but that just can't be real.
@JohnnieNaked You are ignoring the fact that God has provided a way out of this situation of death, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ so that the punishment of death that we were supposed to have Jesus took upon himself so that if we live through Jesus' life we escape death. Jesus lived a perfect sinless life which is why he was able to pay the price of sin for us. We were corrupted with sin by our own submission to Satan instead of God. That's why Jesus did what he did.
@mariuspieter I'm not ignoring it. You seem to easily forget that I was born the way I am, I didn't have a choice in the matter. How can I be punished for something I have no control over?
@JohnnieNaked God did not abandon us to our death, he made a way for us to not have to face our due punishment for sin. Instead we can live in the freedom of Jesus sacrifice and life. Many people in the church don't understand that it is not by doing good things that we get saved from a world of corruption, but by what Jesus Christ did for us, so we don't have to save ourselves, since we are not capable of ourselves to overcome death. You notice that everybody dies right?
@mariuspieter What you are describing is a set up. I didn't have a choice to be a certain way or be a certain height or like certain foods or whatever. I didn't have a choice to be born or not. You realize that? It's not a choice. And how can I disobey somebody I don't even know or have never met? Just because other people say he is real doesn't mean he is. He certainly isn't real to me in any significant way. Yet I'm punished for not believing, when I have no good reason to believe. Not fair.
@JohnnieNaked You must remember that it was not just you that was born with sin, I was also born with sin and I didn't have a choice in the matter either. You see the bible tells us a long story about Israel and how the sin of two people had an effect on the whole line of humanity that continued into this present day. That much is told. The only thing I can tell you is that we must first understand what it is that Adam and Eve did for us today to bear the consequences of their actions.
@mariuspieter If god holds ME accountable for the sin of Adam and Eve, then he's unfair. I can't see how I am to blame for something that happened thousands of years before I was born. You can't be serious. The fact is Christianity needs original sin or it doesn't need a savior. But the concept of original sin is ridiculous.
@JohnnieNaked They openly followed Satan over God, what that means for us is that God has cursed the earth as he said in Gen 3, this was Gods justice in the form of wrath that was pored out on the earth. The consequence of that curse is that no human being in the future since that event will ever be able to not be cursed unless God himself makes a way to do his will which he did through Jesus. I don't have a better way to describe to you the effects of sin
@mariuspieter That's not fair for every single person that came after adam and eve. 100% unfair. They're not in open rebellion against god and following satan because they love evil. They're just fragile, imperfect people, born imperfect. I don`t see that it`s loving or holy in any way to hate somebody for what they can`t help. That`s like making a world of mentally challenged people and then torturing them if they can`t do calculus. Sickening.
@JohnnieNaked The Holiness of God is like this, if you do ONE thing and only one thing that is not perfect you are not Holy anymore. This is what humanity did and it has to cause death to all since it can be found in all from birth, God cannot let even one ounce of sin through and say it is ok, that would disrupt his holiness and make him not God but a man, I understand your perspective, but you need to understand what perspective means and what it means to be perfect.
@JohnnieNaked You are being held accountable for sin since you have not embraced the one way God has made to set you free from sin. And he doesn't tolerate sin now, he says in the book of Revelation and in many other scriptures that he will judge the whole world when he comes back in visible form. He will judge us for all the sin that we have done ever. Unless you accept the life that Jesus has given us through what he did, you will be held personally accountable for your own sin.
@mariuspieter That's baloney. I spent many days and nights on my knees screaming for god to show himself. There was nothing I wanted to see more than Jesus Christ. I wanted to meet him and know him and love him and I begged god for months to reveal him to me. So to say that going through that torture meant I did not really want to see him or meet him is insulting.
@JohnnieNaked You need the Holy Spirit to be able to understand eternal things. I know this stuff is a lot to take in and I understand that you think it is unfair. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to understand him. Part of the reason why you have never met him is because none of us wants to meet him. He has to reveal himself to us through the Holy Spirit, it is the only way.
@JohnnieNaked And yes, he is not real because some people say he is real, he is real because he says he is real. He is not a man that someone could question his motives, he is Holy and that means that he gets to do what he wants to do, not because he is selfish, because selfishness is not in Him, but he does it because he knows better than we do, because of who he is, nations should tremble at his name because he has the power to destroy them all. But he made a way to be united with Him.
@mariuspieter He doesn`t say anything....EVER! All we have to go on is what a bunch of palestinian sheep herders SAID he said no less than 2000 years ago. To be honest that`s a little crazy.
WHy can`t he just come and tell me that??? Seems dishonest of god to keep everybody guessing all the time. I think it's pretty funny how everyone says that the moment he comes back is the moment its going to be too late, to scare the crap out of you like it could happen any second, when if he was half decent at all he would just show up and show everyone he is real before judging them. He should understand since he knows everything that its harder for some and we need to see him to believe.
He showed himself to Thomas to get him to believe why can't he do the same for me? Why does god dislike the questions so much? Not only won't he answer them since its crazily evil to question him and everything but you shouldn't even question his holiness....If there is a god then yes he can do whatever he wants but I would sure rather have never been born than live under that kind of complete tyranny. But oh yeah, I don't get a say in the matter, and I can be punished for NOT having a say.Fair.
@JohnnieNaked He tellas us everything we need to know in his word and through prayer. He will not simply come down. we have a responsibilty as well. seek and you will find.
Well when the choice is between paradise with a perfect, all loving God and a torture chamber of everlasting doom or gloom, why would anyone pick the latter? Either they were not well enough informed about the choices to begin with or they are flat out insane...both are things that God can cure them of. Even if one were to think they wanted "hell" how long do you think theyd have to be there before realizing it isnt what they want afterall?
and God is love...he loves us beyond any human ever possibly could and wants to give each of us the fullness of himself to dwell in us and to fill the void that is inherently in our hearts due to sin. Why would anyone NOT want that and be seperated from God, fully understanding that to be the case?
@ Soto. I guess someone who really hates God and does not realize that God is love, which is why his only begotten son died for us, or may be they want to continue to sin and want to feel as if they are not held accountable by a God. If they deny a God then there must not be one right? They want to live it up in this life. What these people fail to see is that they will be made full in Christ and live this life more abundantly than if they tried to live this life up by their own means.
@Soto. Or may be there is a person who see all the other religions of the world and have determined them to be myths and are closed of to looking at other religions because they are all myths right?
Exactly, theres something they dont see nor realize about our awesome God. So its completely illogical for me to think that said people will go to "hell" and forever stay ignorant and unwanting of Gods true nature and love. The idea that anyone could honestly hate everything that is good and of perfect love for all eternity is perhaps the most absurd thing I was taught in orthodox christianity...no offense.
Well for one, Im not sure alot of that old testament stuff is truly God, second, if youve been reading anything Im saying here you would notice that I dont believe the bible actually teaches "eternal torture".
everything is being worked together for our good and the eventual salvation of EVERY SINGLE creation via Christ. That is the hope I have
this is coming from a guy who just said "its all myth" and then preceded not to explain why?
hmm...seems like youre holding me to a standard youre not even keeping?
If youre interested in an actual discussion, id be more than happy to discuss our "opinions". If you just want to be a troll, then please dont waste my time
No, if you think about it the standard of evidence is universal. But faith isn't concerned about evidence.
Because it's a historical fact that all current mythologies were once practiced theologies, retroactively the same is true of all currently practiced theologies: they are mythologies.
Christianity is no different.
It's no more prudent to heed the warnings of eternal damnation and hellfire, than it is the curse of Pharaoh Tutankhamen tomb. Neither is remotely credible.
Hell is a vile, abusive, disgusting concept. God buys love & loyalty with torture? A Gandhi, Teresa, Mandela would never think of torturing their enemies, whereas a Saddam, Hitler, Stalin would. This is the company that God keeps? Karma & Rebirth is the better, non-violent way. You are not punished, nor are you simply forgiven because you groveled enough. The most important aspect of Karma is that you are held accountable for your actions, you are reborn, given another chance to make amends.
I find it interesting that he says "[Hell] will begin crush you unless you have a Gospel" but sadly enough he doesnt believe in a gospel. Gospel means "good news"...what is good news about God only being able or willing to save a small percentage of humanity? Thats in fact, bad news for most people and isnt even that great for those who it benefits
@SotoBaggins. The good news is that Jesus, our Immanuel, lived a perfect life, went to the cross and died for our sins so that we may be saved and made righteous through him. He did something that no human can do. The good news is that he gives us the choice whether to choice to accept this free gift our not. He is not going to force anyone to accept something that they do not want. He is not going to force someone to choice him and to be with him for all eternity.
Did he force you to accept Him as savior? If not, then logically He should be able to bring about the circumstances in which all people accept him of their own will.
@Soto. How is that logical? I stated that he allows people to choose. There are two choices. It is logical that some will choose one choice and some will choice another. Some people will choose not to accept God and some will reject his saving sacrifice. He is not going to make the choice for us. The choice is there for you to make. What is keeping you from accpeting God's free gift to you? I do not see any way to make everyone recieve the good news of Jesus Christ without force. Do you?
Also, yes I do see a way. Because supposedly God knows all things, correct? And supposedly God can do all things, correct? So if he knows all things, he knows what it would take to show an individual that they need/want Christ in their life, and being all powerful he could bring those circumstances about. Its not "forcing" anything, its doing whatever it takes to win the heart of those you love...in Gods case, humans for which Christ died for
Is where he should have stopped. If he insisted on continuing the sentence should have played out as:
"...because it's a ridiculous myth without any evidence, just like the myth of detiies, designed to terrify the gullible and superstitous into unquestioninig loyalty."
And Theism, meaning that we believe in God is true, but the aspects of theism is not what I believe in, because theism is meaning that we have to save ourselves; and do some sort of "good deed" because we think God is displeased with us. Nope, that's not what I believe in, my friend. That's false teachings.
Explain this to me, Were you back in the time create this universe was created or during the ancients about the earliest of Mankind's existence? No. And know this Hell is plays mostly as motivation for people to come and have faith in the Gospel and is meant to not scare anyone, if people are take the idea of Hell's existence not seriously that is probably because of their own free will SEEMS illogical, horrific and their refusal to put faith in the Gospel or Jesus Christ
Was anyone? No. Clearly you don't follow cosmology, chemistry or biology very closely.
What does that have to do with your faith in the supernatural myths?
Myth:
noun
1. a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with DEITIES or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
I believe all are myths except God because I believe he shows different characteristics other than any other gods. He gives free will to believe whatever we want, love and gives hope unlike believing in other the gods or without the believing God.
In response to one of your other comments, I strongly believe the myth does not "have" me because of the benefits I have received from worshiping God
Then you didn't read the definition of myths. All gods are myths. No exceptions.
a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
it seems that your human definition of "myth" of that you are basing concept from the internet source or the dictionary which is created mankind who is intelligent but still imperfect which leads question if your source is even legitimate,I know the Bible which I believe in was written by man too but it seems unlike the definition, it is more like that it does not always give quick answers since we would look for more than a simple answer in which the human mind is not sensitive to
Even if you think the Bible is book of myths, Is it because you actually read the Christian Bible and found concepts and ideas that contradicted each other that seem to make no sense or Are just assuming the bible is book of myths?
good you get that part but the fact that chemistry, biology and cosmology or anything else human base is based on human logic and human logic has made NEVER reached perfection in anyway as you can but has helped at least the Earth improve in many ways but never reached actual perfection
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1. The Christian faith is not blind. There is evidence out there for it. There are Old Testiment prophecies that were fulfullied in Jesus Christ. There were eye wittness accounts of Jesus's death and ressurrection who died for their faith.
There was a Jewish guy who hated followers of Christ a killed Christians being changed through meeting Jesus and brought his message to the Gentiles and wrote a lot of the books in the New Testiment named Paul. The writters of the Gospels made women the first wittnesses of the empty tomb when women were not considered reliable wittnesses back then. There is archaeological evidence for the Bible, etc. It is not blind faith. Hope you seek for evidence and find what it is you need. Wish you well!!
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SwordofManticorE 1 week ago
pretty much true
TheTyrell415 1 week ago
@TheTyrell415 and hows that?
SwordofManticorE 1 week ago
@SwordofManticorE We can't take it seriously in my opinion because it's negative and people ignore negativity what about you why do you think it is?
TheTyrell415 1 week ago
@TheTyrell415 I think you are Brian Morgen.
SwordofManticorE 1 week ago
@SwordofManticorE what lol?
TheTyrell415 1 week ago
@TheTyrell415 You pretty much smell like BM.
SwordofManticorE 1 week ago
@SwordofManticorE What? that doesn't make sense who is he?
TheTyrell415 1 week ago
@TheTyrell415 BM is the most evil person who calls himself a christian I know. If you are not BM, my sincier apologiy. Let me ask you this. What is gehenna?
SwordofManticorE 1 week ago
@SwordofManticorE oh no man im not BM I have no idea who that is nah I have no idea what gehenna is what is it?
TheTyrell415 1 week ago
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@TheTyrell415 It is a valley outside of Jerusalem.
SwordofManticorE 6 days ago
If Hell is real and endless punishment is the "wages of sin," could the sinner ever receive payment in full? (Rom. 6:23)
SwordofManticorE 4 weeks ago
eternity in hell = Heil! Try lenient
gumboots44 1 month ago
Mecca in Saudi Arabia is the woman that rides the scarlet beast. Mecca sits on seven mountains. Five kings have fallen (Rev 17) and one is in Saudi Arabia today. One of the kings (Rev 13 and Rev 17) received a fatal wound; he is the king who was and is not and will come. He will ascend the bottomless pit and go to destruction. He, is not, because of the fatal wound. Mecca's port Jidda is the wealthiest port in the middle east and western asia.go to meccasevenmountains dot blogspot dot com
BlazyJon 2 months ago
Things I believe are true:
God is great.
YouTube videos from well-known theologians will almost inevitably have comments from atheists decrying Christianity. What they seek to accomplish, I don't know, but they do it.
stitch99 2 months ago
@stitch99 I think they seek to further understanding about the true nature of faith and christianity by exploring its strengths and weakness's. Gold is purified in fire right? I myself was a christian for 38 years until very recently. It is good to question but only the brave and those who sincerley seek truth dare ask and only the truly wise can recognise the truth when it frightens them.
tony9L9L 2 months ago
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Love never fails. God will never fail. If He truly loves people, He wouldn't torture them for all of eternity. Love & eternal torment cannot go together. God is just, yes, but He is not cruel.
1 Tim 4:10- This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
1 John 2:2- He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
whatthehellbook . com
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
going to gospel
singhaditya317 3 months ago
dribble dribble dribble....
etherform66 4 months ago
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Make no mistake about it HELL IS REAL!
lifeInAFallenWorld22 4 months ago
my god i am having nightmares about it jesus help me
singhaditya317 4 months ago
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UNIVERSAL SALVATION was for me a HERESY, people pleasing idea until I saw passages like this.
Romans 5:19 "for as through the disobedience of the one man,THE MANY were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall THE MANY be constituted righteous."
If you take the book of revelation as the end of Gods plan then of course universal salvation would not make sense; but if you look at Paul's writings and see God will be "all in ALL" then you see love Never fails.
motibi 5 months ago
"If you take it seriously it drives you either insane or to the gospel."
And the difference is?
TomFynn 6 months ago
@TomFynn if you knew, there is a difference you see it as insane because you have justified your sins by your own judgement, but you are not the judge, God is the only perfect holy and righteous judge, and if you do not put your faith and trust in the Son of God, you condemn yourself and die in your sin, meaning God's Wrath was not satisfied for you in the death of Christ, "seek me with all your heart and you shall find me"
kewlazpewp 4 months ago
@kewlazpewp You are waffling. Stop it.
TomFynn 4 months ago
@TomFynn The Gospel sets you free. Insanity keeps you contained.
CosmicGrounds 3 months ago
@CosmicGrounds The gospel *is* insanity.
TomFynn 3 months ago
@TomFynn Nice try, but it isn't. What's insanity is chronically rejecting the message of the Cross due to pride.
CosmicGrounds 3 months ago
@CosmicGrounds The message of the cross is: insanity, pure and simple. Thinking that the fairy tale of a Jewish zombie who magically made the world better by dying (or not dying or whatever) has any merit is complete and utter lunacy.
TomFynn 3 months ago
@TomFynn That's just an excuse for you to stay in sin. LoL.
CosmicGrounds 3 months ago
@TomFynn
"The message of the cross is: insanity, pure and simple. Thinking that the fairy tale of a Jewish zombie who magically made the world better by dying (or not dying or whatever) has any merit is complete and utter lunacy."
Then why are you here commenting?
Bill244888 1 month ago
@Bill244888 To point that out.
TomFynn 1 month ago
@TomFynn
Psalm 14:1a
"The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
1 Corinthians 1:18
" For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
Rom. 1:21-22
"For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools,"
Bill244888 1 month ago
@Bill244888 "The true fool mindlessly mouthes lines from a 2000 year old book and thinks he has actually made a point." TomFynn 1:1
TomFynn 1 month ago
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TheParkerJasonal 1 month ago
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@TomFynn You just shot yourself on the foot.. Most of the proverbs that you used comes from the Bible.. Unless you dont speak English at all, chances are you are using biblical lines in your daily conversation.. Your TomFynn 1:1 flopped at the first chapter and first verse..
TheParkerJasonal 1 month ago
@TheParkerJasonal Sorry, what?
TomFynn 1 month ago
@TomFynn Very postmodern of you. Question, what is to keep you from saying that about a 20 year old book? Or a 2 year old book. What is to keep you from living only in the present moment, isolated from connection to and understand with anybody? You and J Alfred Prufrock would get along except that each of you is too busy being enervated to communicate.
quakerman7 1 month ago
@quakerman7 Go away and be postmodern to someone who gives a fuck.
TomFynn 1 month ago
@TomFynn I actually don't like postmodernism. I think its a huge mistake and a mental trap for people. It seems like you instinctively reject it too, except, of course, when you wish to. I recommend watching Ravi Zacharias, Michael Ramsden, John Lennox & WLC. Wouldn't it be tragic if you rejected something you really didn't understand?
quakerman7 1 month ago
@quakerman7 John Lennox? The guy who did not understand Darwin nor Dawkins? WLC? The guy who did not understand *anything*? Ravi Zacharias? The source of all gobbledygook? Michael Ramsden...googeling...googeling...ah, *more* gobbledygook.
I reject people who do not even understand basic science, but pretend they still have anything to contribute towards the nature of the universe.
TomFynn 1 month ago
If hell is real, then why was it first revealed by cat worshiping Egyptians, then adapted by the pagan Greeks, before being stolen and reinvented by Christians? (Notice Jews had better sense and never established a hell doctrine before Christ.)
averagebear1 9 months ago
@averagebear1 I recommend you watch the Contra-Zeitgeist channel, labarum312.
/watch?v=FwYFiHzvZmQ
CarlosMarti123 9 months ago
Where does the "deep down inside everybody knows" come from, if not the culture in which you accidentically were brought up to punish your imperfect created human guilty sinful self with a constant repenting bad conscience? And if not crushed and gone insane from fear replacing denial with faith, you might soon have your worst horrific hellish nightmares comming true, to last for ever. Like (what ever happened to) ever lasting love.
Toggen62 9 months ago
no one has an understanding of hell in this earth unless they have been there in a near death experience. I have had that happen to me I have seen hell and I will tell you it is a place no one wants to go. I repented afterward but I will also tell you that people don't believe it is real nor do they have the power to repent without the holy spirit. Tell people to ask Jesus to reveal himself to them if he is real. They need to know for themselves.
lucy9359 11 months ago
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there is not a drop of evidence that hell is eternal and if you think so then by all mean send my a message and I will gladly refute your argument : )
Dwrancho144 1 year ago
To use Piper's own words.."you gotta blow this off"
UrukEngineer 1 year ago
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The reason is we get to spend our life not being mindslaves to a fairytale and not waiting for a promise that will never come.
Why does god need us to believe in him?
SantaSonofDog 1 year ago
And really, there are those out there that say, well, I just don't believe in this Heaven or Hell stuff. And that a Christian is just wasting his or her time. Fair enough. But, however, someone will be right and someone will be wrong. The Christian has MUCH less to lose in their wrong decision, than a non-believer does. For the unbeliever, why put your eternity in jeopardy all because you can't reason or grasp the concept of a Heaven or Hell? That isn't wise.
MrCharisma25 1 year ago
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SantaSonofDog 1 year ago
@MrCharisma25
Your statement is essentially Pascal's Wager. It takes nothing more than a visit to the relevant page at Wikipedia to see the logical fallacy in this argument.
jaybeebles 1 year ago
@MrCharisma25
A long debunked argument called Pascal's wager, if you take that seriously you'd also have to convert to every religion to avoid every potential God's punishment, and that's not even possible because they all (including different Christian denominations) contradict eachother
redcommander27 10 months ago
In listening to this video, I definitely agree with John Piper. Inside all men there is a conscience. There is both a sense of justice as well as a recognition of the "rights" and "wrongs" as well as guilt in life. Some may say, well, our moral code was comprised of the beliefs of men, yeah, but where did that inspiration come from to begin with? It came from God/Jesus. By human nature, most people like to make light of or distance themselves from anything that is uncomfortable to deal with.
MrCharisma25 1 year ago
@MrCharisma25
This statement is simply untrue. Some people are entirely without conscience; traditionally they are called "psychopaths." It is an officially recognized and well-documented thing.
jaybeebles 1 year ago
@jaybeebles what do you know about psychopaths.....? I think you'll find its 'without remorse'.
Only the Lord knows the heart of a man.
LaMOi1 1 year ago
@MrCharisma25
My conscience doesn't "convict" me when I "sin", sure I feel bad if I hurt someone, but I don't feel bad for not preserving the Sabbath and keeping it holy, or "looking with lust" not to mention there is a clinically documented psychological disorder where one has no conscience called antisocial personality disorder, so did God just forget to give them one?
redcommander27 10 months ago
@redcommander27 it doesnt convict you because your heart is hard, your concious can decieve you
redeemedbychrist1 10 months ago
@redeemedbychrist1
Didn't St Paul write that God hardens people's hearts? In other words, he predestines them to sin and disbelieve than punishes them for it. Furthermore, it still refutes Piper and MrCharisma25's claim that deep down our conscience is convicting us, hence our blowing off of hell.
redcommander27 10 months ago
@redcommander27 sort of. but he does not cause manto sin tho. man allowshimself to be conditionedto theshallow pleasures of this world instead of living a fulfilling life and following God's decrees so God allows mans heart to be hardened by sin that MAN has created, not God, the lord finds favor in certain men but we all have the opportunity to be saved and we do have free will, thats the best answer I can give. he is mysterious and I don't understand everything but he is good and i trust him.
redeemedbychrist1 10 months ago
@redeemedbychrist1 Well to us "sinners" the the pleasures of the world aren't shallow, the world is all we are capable of empirically observing and anything beyond it is anybody's guess, therefore we're not willing to abandon them without sufficient evidence as to why we should. I thought noone is righteous, why does God convict some over others? And the "lord works in mysterious ways" defense is a copout to hard questions in my opinion. Nonetheless, I appreciate your politeness,
redcommander27 10 months ago
@redcommander27 You're right in your assertion that no one is righteous. In answer to your question about why God convicts some and not others, the answer is Christ. Some choose to have his righteousness applied to them by accepting the free gift of grace, others spurn the love Christ showed for them on the Cross and condemn themselves. I don't know you. You're a handle on the internet, but I'm begging you to forget about all the silly controversies and trust in Christ. He's changed my life.
Nyarl3 10 months ago
@Nyarl3
The controversies aren't silly at all, your asking me to trust someone who has no contemporaneous historical evidence of their existence and who if they are real, is torturing my dearly departed grandfather forever now. I don't doubt that religion (James 1:27) changes people's lives, but that doesn't prove that it is true. Also your theology seems Arminian, wouldn't God convert my heart regardless of my choices?
redcommander27 10 months ago
@redcommander27 No historical evidence for Christ?
CarlosMarti123 9 months ago
@CarlosMarti123
The documents that do mention him are far after his death and contain secondhand information, there is not a single contemporaneous mention of him which is strange, though he probably existed, historically, very little can be known about him.
redcommander27 9 months ago
@redcommander27 It's not strange at all. There are very few original manuscripts we have from ancient figures of history, and some thingswe need to remember about historical figures from this period of time. There are amazingly few manuscripts of ANY text written during Jesus' time, and historians of this period wrote little of religious figures. Jesus was active for a very short period of time (just three years) and administered in a very remote corner of the Roman Empire.
CarlosMarti123 9 months ago
@redcommander27 Here you might find a few answers.
~ Where did the New Testament come from?
/watch?v=T_bbXRVS5JY
/watch?v=tjZughMb3ls
~ Is the New Testament Reliable?
/watch?v=lA6dJ6faHaU
/watch?v=0yzsJialBCg
~ Did Jesus rise from the dead?
/watch?v=XOiXWyUIHic
/watch?v=anl8kUClKmo
CarlosMarti123 9 months ago
@MrCharisma25
People say hell casually because they don't believe in it, regardless of whether its real or not, not because they do believe in it and are denying it to themselves. To those who disbelieve in hell, its as real to them as the bogeyman's bag and thus they feel no reason to fear it.
redcommander27 10 months ago
Understanding judgment . It is something close to the heart and mind of God. Normally, folks just want to not think about the judgments of God. I know this is a video about hell, but the believer also needs to understand the potential terribleness of our own judgment at the judgment seat of Christ. We get judged first. 1 Peter 4:17
Terry8150 1 year ago
Thanks for the info-vid
GoodNewsTV3 1 year ago
I really have been looking for someone to answer a question of mine. If hell is real, and as normally described, misery, eternal, then would it not make sense for someone to try to wipe out the human race so no new people would be born and potentially end up there? Wouldn't that actually be merciful? This thought scares me because I believe a radical Christian might one day have this thought and the capability to pull it off. This stupid doctrine must end.
bweber88 1 year ago
@bweber88 That wouldn't follow logically for a christian.. as the doctrine of christianity teaches that the preaching of the gospel is the remedy to persons being subject to the wrath of God in hell. A christian who would try to kill everyone would also have an unchristian eschatology as he/she would try to end everything as the Bible does not. What you have posited would not be a christian.. a radical yes.. but not a christian.
rizzumz 1 year ago
@rizzumz I don't think it matters whether or not they classify as a christian. The point is that it still makes sense to take that drastic action if hell is what christians teach it is. In this case it would be the most merciful thing to do, even if it is unchristian.
bweber88 1 year ago
@bweber88 Well lets just assume hypothetically one did kill everyone. And lets say that one of those persons would have heard the gospel and been converted the day after he died. It would not have been a merciful act to have killed him/her before salvation. The problem with saying its merciful is that you are assuming the position of God and defining mercy. You might say his one life is better than many more dying though you can give no objective logical basis for such thought.
rizzumz 1 year ago
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bweber88 1 year ago
@rizzumz Well in the case of people currently alive, yes what you say would be a problem. But, what I propose would save from hell all those people not yet conceived. sure there might be people not yet conceived that would have gone to heaven, but i'm not a gambling person so why risk it? It's not worth the risk. It simply would be better if the whole system just stopped.
bweber88 1 year ago
@rizzumz And, it would be a merciful act in regards to all those people not yet conceived. Think of the non-conceived being presented with an option...heads eternal happiness, tails eternal misery. Would you take that bet????? cause if his version of hell is true there's way less than 50% making it into heaven. My theory gives a third and superior option which is neither. All bets off. No one takes part and that way no one gets hurt. And, no one knows what they're missing.
bweber88 1 year ago
@bweber88 Realistically you would have saved noone. A person not born can neither be saved nor unsaved as they aren't alive. If i killed your parents before they conceived you i would not have prevented you from being conceived there would simply be no such thing as you. To kill everyone.. send some immediately to heaven, and some to hell would be the only thing accomplished. You wouldn't save future generations as there is no such thing to be saved.
rizzumz 1 year ago
@rizzumz Well lets just take me for example then. If your dogma is right I will be heading to hell. If that really turns out to be true I personally would have much preferred someone to HAVE wiped out humanity, preventing me from even existing. I would miss out on what life I have but I'd gladly trade that for an eternity in hell. What I'm saying is that it's NOT worth the risk.
bweber88 1 year ago
@bweber88 I understand what you're saying.. realistically though you couldn't prefer anything had anyone wiped out your predecessor because you would have never have existed anyway. You would first have to exist to prefer existing or not existing. Its the same reason why its impossible to say God caused himself into being. There is no risk.. there is a sure salvation, Jesus Christ. Now if one rejects that salvation, as many do, he condemns himself.
rizzumz 1 year ago
@rizzumz Simply said, there is a Holy God and there is wretched man. His only salvation from this God's wrath is Jesus Christ. Who the loving God has substituted to fulfill his wrath upon. He calls out, come to him, repent, believe, and be saved.
rizzumz 1 year ago
@rizzumz No I couldn't prefer anything, but what I can say is that I believe most unborn people once born and put in the situation I'm in would say the same thing as I have. They'd say, "It would have been better for me to not have been born." Recognize that one? What the hypothetical would do IS ACTUALLY PREVENT PEOPLE FROM HAVING TO FACE THAT SITUATION.
bweber88 1 year ago
@bweber88 I'll respond to the personal message a little later on.. Its funny you would say "it would have been better for me to not have been born" This is the same thing the devil says in paradise lost. What can be said of a person though. One who chooses rebellion repeatedly but because of the consequences wishes he were not placed in the position to decide. Thats like committing a crime and then saying I wish i wasn't born when put into prison.
rizzumz 1 year ago
@rizzumz The heart of a man who thinks that way isn't in disbelief of punishment but in belief of its guilt not wanting its punishment. One who would say "i'd prefer i wasn't born" is in effect saying. I understand i am justly guilty and deserve punishment and i wish i was never born so that i would not be guilty. Its almost funny the way the things you say make an admittance of what you profess to disbelieve but it is written in romans 1:18.
rizzumz 1 year ago
@rizzumz No, what I'm saying is that I would rather have not been born into a world where things like disbelief in supernatural claims are considered a crime worthy of the punishment of hell. This is just ridiculous.
bweber88 1 year ago
@rizzumz Waiting for the response, check mate I assume.
bweber88 1 year ago
@bweber88 thats why its logically inconsistent for a christian or sane person to do such a thing. If there is a hell and there is salvation from that hell, which there is, the gospel of Jesus Christ, then the logical thing to do is vehemently proclaim that gospel not exterminate the human race. Do you see our deprivation. You've proposed killing off our entire kind as a means to save it? and from who.. the Creator.. as if we the creation could subvert his plans.
rizzumz 1 year ago
@rizzumz It's not inconsistent, think of it another way. The christian who commits the murder of the human race could actually be seen as performing a REAL sacrifice because he would be condemned to hell for it. If you think about the numbers I sent in the personal message you could even say that this person would have performed a greater sacrifice than Christ because in the long run he would have saved more people from hell than Christ did.
bweber88 1 year ago
@rizzumz I say a real sacrifice because they would be doing it knowing they'd burn for eternity in consequence, as opposed to knowing that they'd rise again in 3 days and rule the universe for eternity.
bweber88 1 year ago
@bweber88 No...it's not a real sacrifice to reject the gospel and Christ who is the subject of the gospel....it is pride and inflation of self that rejects Christ and the gospel.
markpianoman 1 year ago
@markpianoman Go back and read the thread very closely, I was not saying it's any kind of sacrifice at all to reject Christ. That's absurd.
bweber88 1 year ago
@bweber88 Nah i honestly haven't been concerned with a response for which I apologize. I'll write back some time this week.
rizzumz 1 year ago
Hell either drives you insane or drives you to the gospel. Jesus is King.
John 3:16
nasipadang 1 year ago
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nasipadang 1 year ago
He's right in a sense: if hell was real it would drive everybody insane. The real question is how someone can claim so absurdly that an all loving God created hell!?
It's a disgusting concept.
JohnnieNaked 2 years ago
I understand why Hell exists since if human sins continually to the point of Judgement Day without accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour, if you think about it, the human would be sinning forever and no judgment can be passed unless there is limited amount time to judge,because he would send adults who been have not accepted Jesus Christ as their saviour nor repented, God automatically rescues young children and babies in the Rapture when they die in their young age into Heaven
GMmaster99 2 years ago
@JohnnieNaked Because hell is God's judgment on those who live in sin and do not live according to the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is Gods just punishment for all who has sinned because he has to punish sin in order to be just. Because God is life, he has to punish that which leads to death (sin) with death itself, since sin and death is opposite of God, Therefore a just punishment for our human actions that is opposed to God is eternal death since that is the root of sin.
mariuspieter 1 year ago
That's ridiculous. God can do anything. He can say, you know what? Mercy is more important than my pride I will absolve these people from eternal torment they only have to do a few years. These people only have to do a few months. And he can make the punishment merciful too. He doesn't need to torture anyone, since that would drive you insane anyway. He can lock someone up for a while to show them they need him. Or he could even do that NOW, just show up...why doesn't he just show up?
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked Its not his pride that is at stake in terms of what you are describing, it would be inconsistent with his very nature and disprove him as God. You see you need to understand that God is a Holy God as he describes himself over and over again in the bible, that means that anything that contradicts him cannot be in his presence, it has to be expelled by his wrath which is his righteous response to sin. Tolerating just one bit of sin and not giving it due punishment discredits Him
mariuspieter 1 year ago
@mariuspieter I thought he was everywhere? He tolerates it here and now, doesn't he?
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked Essentially it makes him not God in relation to what he has said he is. God would be contradicting himself if he does what you are suggesting. You see you are looking at this from a western perspective, God is looking at it from an eternal perspective, because he is eternal according to the bible.
mariuspieter 1 year ago
@mariuspieter I can't think in terms of eternity, so how could I possibly understand, or be held accountable for not doing what I am not able to do?
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked Sin leads to death, God is life, so if God does not punish sin it would make him NOT life, but rather compromise his integrity and show that he is not God at all. Since the very definition of God is that he is perfect in every way we sometimes think that we can pick the categories we want him to be good in, but his good in all. This means we lack the perspective to understand the whole picture based on the limited perspective we have as humans
mariuspieter 1 year ago
That's a pretty bad contradiction. You say god is life but needs to impune death upon others or he wouldn't be life. That's like saying I'm not alive unless I kill people.
"This means we lack the perspective to understand the whole picture based on the limited perspective we have as humans"
Yes of course, not only does god seem unjust, unfair, and cruel, he also makes himself impossible to understand, and then punishes us for not understanding him. Sorry but that just can't be real.
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked You are ignoring the fact that God has provided a way out of this situation of death, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ so that the punishment of death that we were supposed to have Jesus took upon himself so that if we live through Jesus' life we escape death. Jesus lived a perfect sinless life which is why he was able to pay the price of sin for us. We were corrupted with sin by our own submission to Satan instead of God. That's why Jesus did what he did.
mariuspieter 1 year ago
@mariuspieter I'm not ignoring it. You seem to easily forget that I was born the way I am, I didn't have a choice in the matter. How can I be punished for something I have no control over?
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked God did not abandon us to our death, he made a way for us to not have to face our due punishment for sin. Instead we can live in the freedom of Jesus sacrifice and life. Many people in the church don't understand that it is not by doing good things that we get saved from a world of corruption, but by what Jesus Christ did for us, so we don't have to save ourselves, since we are not capable of ourselves to overcome death. You notice that everybody dies right?
mariuspieter 1 year ago
@mariuspieter What you are describing is a set up. I didn't have a choice to be a certain way or be a certain height or like certain foods or whatever. I didn't have a choice to be born or not. You realize that? It's not a choice. And how can I disobey somebody I don't even know or have never met? Just because other people say he is real doesn't mean he is. He certainly isn't real to me in any significant way. Yet I'm punished for not believing, when I have no good reason to believe. Not fair.
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked You must remember that it was not just you that was born with sin, I was also born with sin and I didn't have a choice in the matter either. You see the bible tells us a long story about Israel and how the sin of two people had an effect on the whole line of humanity that continued into this present day. That much is told. The only thing I can tell you is that we must first understand what it is that Adam and Eve did for us today to bear the consequences of their actions.
mariuspieter 1 year ago
@mariuspieter If god holds ME accountable for the sin of Adam and Eve, then he's unfair. I can't see how I am to blame for something that happened thousands of years before I was born. You can't be serious. The fact is Christianity needs original sin or it doesn't need a savior. But the concept of original sin is ridiculous.
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked They openly followed Satan over God, what that means for us is that God has cursed the earth as he said in Gen 3, this was Gods justice in the form of wrath that was pored out on the earth. The consequence of that curse is that no human being in the future since that event will ever be able to not be cursed unless God himself makes a way to do his will which he did through Jesus. I don't have a better way to describe to you the effects of sin
mariuspieter 1 year ago
@mariuspieter That's not fair for every single person that came after adam and eve. 100% unfair. They're not in open rebellion against god and following satan because they love evil. They're just fragile, imperfect people, born imperfect. I don`t see that it`s loving or holy in any way to hate somebody for what they can`t help. That`s like making a world of mentally challenged people and then torturing them if they can`t do calculus. Sickening.
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked The Holiness of God is like this, if you do ONE thing and only one thing that is not perfect you are not Holy anymore. This is what humanity did and it has to cause death to all since it can be found in all from birth, God cannot let even one ounce of sin through and say it is ok, that would disrupt his holiness and make him not God but a man, I understand your perspective, but you need to understand what perspective means and what it means to be perfect.
mariuspieter 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked You are being held accountable for sin since you have not embraced the one way God has made to set you free from sin. And he doesn't tolerate sin now, he says in the book of Revelation and in many other scriptures that he will judge the whole world when he comes back in visible form. He will judge us for all the sin that we have done ever. Unless you accept the life that Jesus has given us through what he did, you will be held personally accountable for your own sin.
mariuspieter 1 year ago
@mariuspieter That's baloney. I spent many days and nights on my knees screaming for god to show himself. There was nothing I wanted to see more than Jesus Christ. I wanted to meet him and know him and love him and I begged god for months to reveal him to me. So to say that going through that torture meant I did not really want to see him or meet him is insulting.
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked You need the Holy Spirit to be able to understand eternal things. I know this stuff is a lot to take in and I understand that you think it is unfair. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to understand him. Part of the reason why you have never met him is because none of us wants to meet him. He has to reveal himself to us through the Holy Spirit, it is the only way.
mariuspieter 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked And yes, he is not real because some people say he is real, he is real because he says he is real. He is not a man that someone could question his motives, he is Holy and that means that he gets to do what he wants to do, not because he is selfish, because selfishness is not in Him, but he does it because he knows better than we do, because of who he is, nations should tremble at his name because he has the power to destroy them all. But he made a way to be united with Him.
mariuspieter 1 year ago
@mariuspieter He doesn`t say anything....EVER! All we have to go on is what a bunch of palestinian sheep herders SAID he said no less than 2000 years ago. To be honest that`s a little crazy.
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
WHy can`t he just come and tell me that??? Seems dishonest of god to keep everybody guessing all the time. I think it's pretty funny how everyone says that the moment he comes back is the moment its going to be too late, to scare the crap out of you like it could happen any second, when if he was half decent at all he would just show up and show everyone he is real before judging them. He should understand since he knows everything that its harder for some and we need to see him to believe.
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
He showed himself to Thomas to get him to believe why can't he do the same for me? Why does god dislike the questions so much? Not only won't he answer them since its crazily evil to question him and everything but you shouldn't even question his holiness....If there is a god then yes he can do whatever he wants but I would sure rather have never been born than live under that kind of complete tyranny. But oh yeah, I don't get a say in the matter, and I can be punished for NOT having a say.Fair.
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked
mariuspieter 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked He tellas us everything we need to know in his word and through prayer. He will not simply come down. we have a responsibilty as well. seek and you will find.
baby287girl 1 year ago
I mean honestly this man would have people believe that one day you or I will literally "wake up dead".
WAKE UP DEAD? How possibly, without invoking some convoluted supernatural gobbledygook?
John Piper is a sad little king is prancing about in an invisible truth-suit.
The Emperor hasn't any clothes on.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
Well when the choice is between paradise with a perfect, all loving God and a torture chamber of everlasting doom or gloom, why would anyone pick the latter? Either they were not well enough informed about the choices to begin with or they are flat out insane...both are things that God can cure them of. Even if one were to think they wanted "hell" how long do you think theyd have to be there before realizing it isnt what they want afterall?
p.s. Im a christian already lol
SotoBaggins 2 years ago
@Soto. I think the worst part of it would be the part about being seperated from God.
waterplo12 2 years ago
and God is love...he loves us beyond any human ever possibly could and wants to give each of us the fullness of himself to dwell in us and to fill the void that is inherently in our hearts due to sin. Why would anyone NOT want that and be seperated from God, fully understanding that to be the case?
SotoBaggins 2 years ago
@ Soto. I guess someone who really hates God and does not realize that God is love, which is why his only begotten son died for us, or may be they want to continue to sin and want to feel as if they are not held accountable by a God. If they deny a God then there must not be one right? They want to live it up in this life. What these people fail to see is that they will be made full in Christ and live this life more abundantly than if they tried to live this life up by their own means.
waterplo12 2 years ago
@Soto. Or may be there is a person who see all the other religions of the world and have determined them to be myths and are closed of to looking at other religions because they are all myths right?
waterplo12 2 years ago
Exactly, theres something they dont see nor realize about our awesome God. So its completely illogical for me to think that said people will go to "hell" and forever stay ignorant and unwanting of Gods true nature and love. The idea that anyone could honestly hate everything that is good and of perfect love for all eternity is perhaps the most absurd thing I was taught in orthodox christianity...no offense.
SotoBaggins 2 years ago
@SotoBaggins
Love=hardening Pharoh's heart then killing the firstborn for it?
Love=2 she-bears to maul 42 youths to death?
Love=utilizing human suffering for personal glorification?
Love=eternal torture for unrequited love and devotion??
How pathetic.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
Well for one, Im not sure alot of that old testament stuff is truly God, second, if youve been reading anything Im saying here you would notice that I dont believe the bible actually teaches "eternal torture".
everything is being worked together for our good and the eventual salvation of EVERY SINGLE creation via Christ. That is the hope I have
SotoBaggins 2 years ago
@SotoBaggins
None of it is god. All of it is mythology.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
Well sir, I tend to disagree :)
SotoBaggins 2 years ago
@SotoBaggins
Great you haz opinions.
Pity you cannot begin to support them.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
this is coming from a guy who just said "its all myth" and then preceded not to explain why?
hmm...seems like youre holding me to a standard youre not even keeping?
If youre interested in an actual discussion, id be more than happy to discuss our "opinions". If you just want to be a troll, then please dont waste my time
SotoBaggins 2 years ago
@SotoBaggins
No, if you think about it the standard of evidence is universal. But faith isn't concerned about evidence.
Because it's a historical fact that all current mythologies were once practiced theologies, retroactively the same is true of all currently practiced theologies: they are mythologies.
Christianity is no different.
It's no more prudent to heed the warnings of eternal damnation and hellfire, than it is the curse of Pharaoh Tutankhamen tomb. Neither is remotely credible.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
@waterplo12
Except there aren't any deities because theology=mythology. We already ARE separated from gods, as much as we are separated from Superman. :D
EntinludeX 2 years ago
@SotoBaggins
That's a false dichotomy.
Your promised rewards and punishments are little more than fictitious motivators.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hell is a vile, abusive, disgusting concept. God buys love & loyalty with torture? A Gandhi, Teresa, Mandela would never think of torturing their enemies, whereas a Saddam, Hitler, Stalin would. This is the company that God keeps? Karma & Rebirth is the better, non-violent way. You are not punished, nor are you simply forgiven because you groveled enough. The most important aspect of Karma is that you are held accountable for your actions, you are reborn, given another chance to make amends.
ramaraksha01 2 years ago
I find it interesting that he says "[Hell] will begin crush you unless you have a Gospel" but sadly enough he doesnt believe in a gospel. Gospel means "good news"...what is good news about God only being able or willing to save a small percentage of humanity? Thats in fact, bad news for most people and isnt even that great for those who it benefits
SotoBaggins 2 years ago
@SotoBaggins. The good news is that Jesus, our Immanuel, lived a perfect life, went to the cross and died for our sins so that we may be saved and made righteous through him. He did something that no human can do. The good news is that he gives us the choice whether to choice to accept this free gift our not. He is not going to force anyone to accept something that they do not want. He is not going to force someone to choice him and to be with him for all eternity.
waterplo12 2 years ago
Did he force you to accept Him as savior? If not, then logically He should be able to bring about the circumstances in which all people accept him of their own will.
SotoBaggins 2 years ago
@Soto. How is that logical? I stated that he allows people to choose. There are two choices. It is logical that some will choose one choice and some will choice another. Some people will choose not to accept God and some will reject his saving sacrifice. He is not going to make the choice for us. The choice is there for you to make. What is keeping you from accpeting God's free gift to you? I do not see any way to make everyone recieve the good news of Jesus Christ without force. Do you?
waterplo12 2 years ago
Also, yes I do see a way. Because supposedly God knows all things, correct? And supposedly God can do all things, correct? So if he knows all things, he knows what it would take to show an individual that they need/want Christ in their life, and being all powerful he could bring those circumstances about. Its not "forcing" anything, its doing whatever it takes to win the heart of those you love...in Gods case, humans for which Christ died for
SotoBaggins 2 years ago
Myths is lies, brother.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
Aw, he almost got it right.
If you take it seriously you ARE insane.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
"Hell is hard to take seriosuly..."
Is where he should have stopped. If he insisted on continuing the sentence should have played out as:
"...because it's a ridiculous myth without any evidence, just like the myth of detiies, designed to terrify the gullible and superstitous into unquestioninig loyalty."
EntinludeX 2 years ago
So the options here are: "Believe or suffer UNIMAGINABLE HORRORS"
You poor gullible suckers.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
And Theism, meaning that we believe in God is true, but the aspects of theism is not what I believe in, because theism is meaning that we have to save ourselves; and do some sort of "good deed" because we think God is displeased with us. Nope, that's not what I believe in, my friend. That's false teachings.
HowdyNrealLife 2 years ago
Morality has nothing to do with theolgy, be it monotheistic or polytheistic, it makes no difference. Both are factually irrelivant.
Faith-based beliefs are by definition without evidence and as such are refuced to little more than wishful thinking applied towards mythology.
All theologies are false teachings.
yours is no exception.
All you're left doing is defending an undefedable possition. Without evidence. without excuse.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
Explain this to me, Were you back in the time create this universe was created or during the ancients about the earliest of Mankind's existence? No. And know this Hell is plays mostly as motivation for people to come and have faith in the Gospel and is meant to not scare anyone, if people are take the idea of Hell's existence not seriously that is probably because of their own free will SEEMS illogical, horrific and their refusal to put faith in the Gospel or Jesus Christ
GMmaster99 2 years ago
@GMmaster99
Was anyone? No. Clearly you don't follow cosmology, chemistry or biology very closely.
What does that have to do with your faith in the supernatural myths?
Myth:
noun
1. a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with DEITIES or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
All gods are myth.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
I believe all are myths except God because I believe he shows different characteristics other than any other gods. He gives free will to believe whatever we want, love and gives hope unlike believing in other the gods or without the believing God.
In response to one of your other comments, I strongly believe the myth does not "have" me because of the benefits I have received from worshiping God
GMmaster99 2 years ago
@GMmaster99
Then you didn't read the definition of myths. All gods are myths. No exceptions.
a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
@EntinludeX
it seems that your human definition of "myth" of that you are basing concept from the internet source or the dictionary which is created mankind who is intelligent but still imperfect which leads question if your source is even legitimate,I know the Bible which I believe in was written by man too but it seems unlike the definition, it is more like that it does not always give quick answers since we would look for more than a simple answer in which the human mind is not sensitive to
GMmaster99 2 years ago
@GMmaster99
NOTHING IS PERFECT, least of all the Bible. So, crying about human imperfection is a waste of time.
Yes, genius. I base my concepts on human definitions. Thats what humans do.
Claiming perfection from a supernatural source leads to question if the source is even legitimate. You should ALWAYS question the source of ANYTHING.
Naturally, the Bible is a book of myths written by humans, like ANY OTHER MYTHOLOGY. It has no answers.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
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GMmaster99 2 years ago
Even if you think the Bible is book of myths, Is it because you actually read the Christian Bible and found concepts and ideas that contradicted each other that seem to make no sense or Are just assuming the bible is book of myths?
GMmaster99 2 years ago
good you get that part but the fact that chemistry, biology and cosmology or anything else human base is based on human logic and human logic has made NEVER reached perfection in anyway as you can but has helped at least the Earth improve in many ways but never reached actual perfection
GMmaster99 2 years ago
@GMmaster99
What? Nobody is perfect? *gasp* so what!?
Nothing has ever reached perfection. That's utopianistic nonsence.There is no such thing as perfection you naive, superstitious, myth-breather.
Human fallibility is exactly the POINT I'm making. Faith is gullibility and god is myth. Both are illogical and unreasonable concepts.
EntinludeX 2 years ago
Comment removed
GMmaster99 2 years ago
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1. The Christian faith is not blind. There is evidence out there for it. There are Old Testiment prophecies that were fulfullied in Jesus Christ. There were eye wittness accounts of Jesus's death and ressurrection who died for their faith.
waterplo12 2 years ago
There was a Jewish guy who hated followers of Christ a killed Christians being changed through meeting Jesus and brought his message to the Gentiles and wrote a lot of the books in the New Testiment named Paul. The writters of the Gospels made women the first wittnesses of the empty tomb when women were not considered reliable wittnesses back then. There is archaeological evidence for the Bible, etc. It is not blind faith. Hope you seek for evidence and find what it is you need. Wish you well!!
waterplo12 2 years ago
@waterplo12
There is no prophecy that cannot be explained by mundane means. Eyewitness accounts are unreliable hearsay. There are martyrs for nearly everything.
Truly you must be kidding yourself.
This is no better than the prophesied curse of pharaoh Tutankhamen. :D
Not only is faith by definition, belief without evidence, but, hoping for the unseen is little more than wishful thinking. It is blind by definition.
Naked fools in an invisible truth-suit.
The Emperor hasn't any clothes on.
EntinludeX 2 years ago