1973 Ovation Breadwinner Guitar Review Scott Grove

[tkojams]

Deacons were never available with set necks.

[groovydjs]

@tkojams I had better get in my guitar room and hurry up and put a neck plate and some bolts on my Deacon 12 string before the neck comes off then. Thanks for the pointer. I'm not sure what's been keeping it together all these years.

[tkojams]

@groovydjsSpoken I would like to see that, All the info I've ever been able to find says they were all bolt on. Evan the Ovation Deacon 12 String

Owner's Manual says "removable neck" How about a video about your Deacan 12?

[groovydjs]

@tkojams You got it my friend. I've seen a couple others around too. Probably a short lived thing, but they are out there. Thanks for asking to check it out.

Scott

[jsilence418]

An excellent review man really, but although I agree with Ovation screwing up the phasing of the pickups, the sound you call unuseable sounds not unlike a flanged Strat used in country or mid seventies Clapton ! just a matter of taste though great post !

[groovydjs]

@jsilence418 Many thanks! I'm going to have one of these custom made and toss the 3 pickups from the Viper III in it. That will be way too sweet. The crossbreeding of the 2 should prove to be remarkable.

[jasmithdub]

I have a 73 breadwinner, i dont suppose you know of anywhere where i could buy a backplate (battery door). any help much apprieciated :)

[groovydjs]

@jasmithdub I actually saw one on Ebay last week. A guy was parting out his Breadwinner. Every single part was for sale all by itself.

[jasmithdub]

@groovydjs oh right, i'll have to keep an eye out on ebay. thanks the help :)

[groovydjs]

@jasmithdub You are quite welcome my friend!

[hentydagamer]

i dont knw my uncle gave it to me

[groovydjs]

@hentydagamer He gave you a cool gift for sure!

[hentydagamer]

I like how my breadwinner has a leather finish

[groovydjs]

@hentydagamer Had a custom job done to it did you?

[fenderstratguy]

7:30 sounded like it was getting ready to be Stranglehold by Ted Nugent

[groovydjs]

@fenderstratguy I almost went into it. I often do. Great tune!

[MrTommyTownshend]

the other switch is an in phase/out of phase switch.

[groovydjs]

@MrTommyTownshend Yep.

[LedWolf7]

wow thats a nice guitar, but don't you play bass gene simmons?

[groovydjs]

@LedWolf7 Oddly enough, check Gene's first and second solo albums. He didn't play bass at all on any of them. He only played guitar. Pretty wacky huh?

[redshaftedflicker]

Speaking of Ace, he also played Veleno I think--have you ever played one and if so did you like it?

[groovydjs]

@redshaftedflicker I remember the Veleno. The double cutaway Tele looking thing with the 2 humbuckers, 3 knobs, tune-o-matic and the split headstock. I've never had to opportunity to play one at all. It would be cool to see what it was all about though.

[hugocormerais]

hello man , good guitar !!

Peter tosh had the same with the wailer .. ive no money to buy this but do you know guitar who have the same sound hard ?

I want play that with a whawha pedal like in this video

[groovydjs]

@hugocormerais Hello, I'm not sure I understand the question. It is the part that says "do you know guitar who have the same sound hard"? If I had the slightest clue what that meant.....I would happily answer your question.

[Growl666]

@groovydjs I think he ment "a guitar that sounds like that one"! xD

Cool video as usually!

Cheers from Denmark

[groovydjs]

@Growl666 LOL, that could very well be true. Tosh would've probably have loved these sounds. They are perfectly geared towards that reggae, funky sound. They were out right durning his time too. So, he probably had some players use these at least a couple times during his career.

[miroslavni]

@hugocormerais

Eastwood version of Breadwinner. Also not expensive.

[groovydjs]

@miroslavni All that Eastwood did was take the Breadwinner shape and toss 2 cheap humbuckers in it and threw it out the door.  So, no better than any $200.00 Les Paul copy. There is a very good reason that the Eastwood guitars are cheap, because they suck. They can't think of a design on their own, so they do like so many before them....rip off body shapes from others and then put crap guts in them and rip kids off that don't know any better. They will be remembered for being shit guitars.

[miroslavni]

@groovydjs I have to admit that I never had an Eastwood guitar in my hands, so I can't judge their quality. But since many artists (some of them prominent) use their guitars I couldn't think of them as sucking instruments.

[groovydjs]

@miroslavni Hendrix was a prominent artist, so was Cobain and all of them other dead people. They died because they were morons. So, prominent and playing a certain brand of axe don't mean squat. Eastwood makes shit guitars and the prominent artists that play them do so because they are free. If they pay a dime for one, then they are also morons with recording contracts. The Jonas Brothers have a recording contract, that doesn't make their guitars better because of the record deal. lol

[groovydjs]

@miroslavni As an update.....this member contacted me wanting sexual favors....so, I had to block him. Some people. Good lord.

[skotyboy01]

hey it's cameron again, i was the one who wrote the comment for the reverse flying v guitar. nice breadwinner. it is like brand new and it doesn't have any scratches. i ayk really is trying to find guitars for my arsenal. i hope you enjoy it well see you around

[groovydjs]

@skotyboy01 Hi there Cameron! Yeah, this puppy is pretty much spotless. About 40 years old now and in showroom condition. It's really a joy to find guitars like this that haven't been destroyed. Will it ever win any tone awards? Not in a million years. But what a cool axe despite that huh? It's like the runt of the litter of any species. Sure it's an outcast, but what a groovy little guy it is simply because of it's totally unique qualities.

[MrJaxreid]

 eastwood guitars makes a newer version with active/passive mini humbuckers for $700 and can even have a tremolo

[groovydjs]

@MrJaxreid Yes they do.....but who wants an Eastwood guitar?

[mLaNo96]

as much as the two pickups sounds bad together it could create very unique tone in my humble opinion

[groovydjs]

@mLaNo96 For sure. They are very unique sounding and you can come up with "normal" sonds with enough tweaking of all the funky settings on this guitar and all the unique tones in the world. It has been used on a few of my recordings where just that kind of sound cuts through the mix and ends up being just what the song called for. It is in no way useless. It's simply a unique guitar and I love the body style. I'll have a custom guitar made with the same body style for sure.

[22535030541857]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the horor of both pickups. that is one of the brashist un-holy combo of pickups ever devised

[groovydjs]

@22535030541857 I agree, it is horrible sounding, but all origianal. Amazing how they could make something as nasty as these and then turn around and have an amazing sounding axe such as the Viper III's. These keep on going up in price. Why? Who knows, but I bought it knowing that they are skyrocketing in 100% original condition with the OHSC and.....That's why it's in my collection.....investment reasons only.

[22535030541857]

@groovydjs if you want to make a good guitar envestment you should look into the old ibanez musicians. its an alembick copy guitar with 800 diferent switches and nobs and made of 50 diferent woods that no one has ever heard of l;ol. but worth a VERY pretty penny from what i hear

[groovydjs]

@22535030541857 Yeah, I've had lots of the Musicians and the Alembics etc. They are not good guitars by any stretch of the imagination, but the prices are going through the roof for sure. I remember when each could be had for next to nothing. If we could only go back in time huh? lol

[22535030541857]

im not completely sure but ive looked into these and im pretty sure that those are the wrong pickups. they used the same pickups on almost all of them. i have a book of guitars and they have this guitar from the same year and the pickups look more like traditional humbuckers

[groovydjs]

@22535030541857 Nope, this is the way that these single coil pickups are. I'm 300% sure on it. No dispute to be had. This is as original as they come my friend.

[caulinrocker1]

how do you tell if a set is out of phase before you use them ... is it a problem with the wiring or just the combo of pickups?

[groovydjs]

@caulinrocker1 It's a matter of simply looking and downloading the pdf manual for the correct year. Ovation changed the combinations as often as folks change socks. lol They changed everything about this guitar 2 years later. Nothing was the same even though the same knobs and switches were there, they did very different things. You can check out my review for my Breadwinner Limited to see what I mean.

[jimmykicker]

100% identical to the one I have. Very cool! 73 model I believe.

[groovydjs]

@jimmykicker You are dead correct my friend.

[SoreEyeMusic]

I cracked when you turned both pickups on and you stopped playing, waved you arms and went:" Unusable sound!" xD

[groovydjs]

@SoreEyeMusic Yeah, I didn't find that particular configuration usable for anything at all. Some things work and some don't.  That was a big DON'T. lol

[elgordo151]

Scott, why do you not mention the function of the upper selector switch, or do you not know? As another poster pointed out, it's a notch filter (band reject) that dampens the mid-range. Toward you = flat, away = active.

BTW, if you really find the extremely variable tones available from the BW so unusable I'll take any and/or all of them off your hands to add to my stable which consists currently of a 1977 Deacon and a 1972 BW in the prototype config with the output jack in the cutaway.

[groovydjs]

@elgordo151 Yes, very familiar with the notch filter switch. I had enough time to mention it in my other Breadwinner Limited review, you can check that one out. I think you'll really like it. I wish they would allow links in here. But you can find it just by putting in my name and breadwinner. I would love to have the jack in the cutaway. It makes so much more sense. If you get a chance, please send me pics of it and the Deacon, I would love to see them. Same screen name at AOL. Thanks

[elgordo151]

@groovydjs I guess I was intrigued by your frequent references to the BW (torriodal pick-ups) "unusable tones. Right when you were getting some of my favorite voicings of the guitar you'd say, "A totally unusable tone". Tonal range was the point of the FET pre-amp in the first place. Now, I'm going on technical advice given me when I bought my first one, a 1973, new in the box, but one function of the pre-amp was to elminate signal loss as the tone pot moves to bass allowing mellow dark tones.

[groovydjs]

@elgordo151 Yeah, I've never been happy with any of the tones from these things. I've just always loved the way they played. I got them to decorate my walls and just for old time's sake. I wouldn't ever actually take one to a gig with me. I just don't like anything that comes out of them once they are plugged in. For the most part, if it don't sound like a Strat, it's not going to the gig, but I still love guitars and all of their funky little ways, even if I don't like their tones.

[aw9436]

I had a 1976 or 1977 deacon that was wired the same way. thought there was something wrong because what would normally be the bridge pickup was actually both pickups in the out of phase mode. that's just the way they were wired. to get rid of that out of phase sound, take the back battery plate off, you'll see a small hole through through the circuitry just big enough to fit a small screwdriver in. turn the screw and you can actually get rid of the out of phase sound. pretty neat feature!

[groovydjs]

@aw9436 True, I've pulled the back off of this first edition Breadwinner and it has 2 trim pots for the output of each pickup. The phase cancellation was added a few years later. I really wish it was implemented in this particular axe, but....they did realize the need for it later and updated the electronics and went to humbuckers instead of the single coils too.

[FCValle]

well i didnt like how those pickups are used, considering the switch, but the guitar sounds awesome!

[groovydjs]

@FCValle Thanks. Yeah, it is a very screwed up design electronically. But, it was the early 70's and Bob Moog and everybody else were trying some wacky things with active electronics. This one was simply laid out very badly switch-wise. lol  Most folks have yanked that mess out and replaced everything with standard electronics and a new pickguard and pickups to do the typical dual humbuckers or Stratocaster type of configuration. I'll keep this on stock for fun.

[cuteminusthere]

That second switch is to switch the pups from active to passive. The pups are out of phase to create a wider "stereo" sound on a mono signal. Its a technique I use a lot. You see the same thing done with paired mics for vocals and ribbon mics and as you would guess both were very popular at the time. You see lots of mics and mixers from this era like this. Doesn't really make sense here, but it can sound nice. I have mine setup (out of phase) with an output for each. Sounds great on a big stack.

[groovydjs]

@cuteminusthere Thank you, the manual indicates the top switch as a notch switch 5. The notch switch changes the response of the amplifier so that the mid-range frequencies are filtered out and the

bass and treble that are left are boosted in volume so that there is no overall volume loss. This setting produces a

sound similar to an acoustic guitar.

[giantrobot9000]

I'm with you on Ovation acoustics. They do nothing for me at all. The electrics are cool as hell, though.

[groovydjs]

@giantrobot9000 Yeah, it's amazing how they ended up being so famous for those acoustics that always warp and the bridges fall off and so on, but the electrics never really caught on. Life isn't fair. lol

[larkk22]

I tried to attach an old Ovation page that's linked, but I guess I don't know how on youtube.

[groovydjs]

@larkk22 You Tube does not allow links to be posted. If there is something you want me to see, you can send the link to me via a direct message.

[larkk22]

Any and every sound a guitar makes could be useful to "someone." I have 4 deacons and I'm using a 12 string now. When I have the toggle back, I can tap both pickups and get sound, so I'm confused when you say they are not both active. The phase switch forward activates them both, correct? Or am I wrong? I like different configurations on this guitar, but had known.

[groovydjs]

@larkk22 The Deacons have a different wiring scheme and different pickups in them than this does. Sounds are sounds and some are simply better left unheard. Some of them on these are such sounds. I'm sure that your Deacons have the humbuckers in them. These are the single coil pickups and they are wired in the way that I described. There are different specs on the 1973 model shown here and the later Breadwinners.

[1234567rocker]

Nice guitar I have a Deacon & two Breadwinners, the one I play the most has one bridge pickup & a birdseye maple body. Can you tell me anything about it? I've never seen another with one pickup. I've been playing it for twentyfive years. Serial# E00395 Here's my e-mail roadhouse4u@yahoo.com Thanks Ed

[wisesatyr72]

Where do you buy your guitars.Scott? is that a secret? Nice Ovation by the way

[groovydjs]

@wisesatyr72 I buy every guitar from Ebay. Nowhere else. The closest guitar stores to me are an hour and a half away, in Las Vegas and there really aren't any shops there that I like. I won't set foot in a Guitar Center or Ed Roman's. So, Ebay it is. If I get one that sucks, back on Ebay it goes. But I don't buy unless I know I can at least double my money back on it.

[wisesatyr72]

@groovydjs Great minds think alike..

[groovydjs]

@wisesatyr72 LOL, there you go. I probably bid on a few hundred a week and might win one or two, but....if they slip through the cracks for a stupid price, I'll take it. lol

[1234567rocker]

@groovydjs Nice guitar I have a Deacon & two Breadwinners, the one I play the most has one bridge pickup & a birdseye maple body. Can you tell me anything about it? I've never seen another with one pickup. I've been playing it for twentyfive years. Serial# E00395 Here's my e-mail roadhouse4u@yahoo.com Thanks Ed

[1234567rocker]

Nice guitar I have a Deacon & two Breadwinners, the one I play the most has one bridge pickup & a birdseye maple body. Can you tell me anything about it? I've never seen another with one pickup. I've been playing it for twentyfive years. Serial# E00395 Here's my e-mail roadhouse4u@yahoo.com Thanks Ed

[doneaster]

Hi groovydjs,

Yes you are absolutely right the humbuckers do produce a much better and more pleasing tone than the Teroidal Single Coils. The out of phase selection on my Breadwinner is a really nice tone and yes the wiring of the switches was kept the same. I think the engineers at Ovation were trying to keep things simple so the player could change the sound of the Breadwinner very quickly. I may put up a video one day soon and demonstrate how mine sounds.

Don

[groovydjs]

@doneaster I would love to hear yours Don. I love the Breadwinners, nothing plays like them and the humbuckers they used sounded so much better. I got this one simply to have the early model and I'm waiting on a good humbucker version of it and the Deacon to come along too. I really miss having the old collection around, so one of each couldn't hurt to have again. lol

Thanks again Don my friend and I'm looking forward to the video!

[doneaster]

Hi, I'm sorry but I disagree with your assessment of the out of phase pickup sound. please listen to "Third Rate Romance " by the Amazing Rhythm Aces , the guitar that Barry Byrd is playing had out of phase pickups and they really made the rhythm and lead parts in that recording unique. I have a 1977 Breadwinner and I love the way the out of phase pickups sound on it.

[groovydjs]

@doneaster That's fine, you're totally allowed to disagree. I just personally hate that sound. Of course your out of phase sound and mine are quite different being that yours has the humbuckers in it as opposed to these single coils. They are quite a bit different sounding. I've had probably 40 Breadwinners and Deacons over the years and these single coil versions from the first year or two produced were pretty nasty.

[bmiranda2645]

So I take it that the 18 volts are just for a preamp, but I don't see the point if the pickups aren't wired well. The issue you mentioned about the pickups kinda reminded me of your video a Gibson Melody maker, like how the coils weren't reverse-wound and they were noisy even when both were toggled.

I saw a lot of your videos, but I don't remember you talking about the wireless system you used for guitars. Maybe you could make a video about the wireless transmitter and the receiver channels?

[groovydjs]

@bmiranda2645 True on wasting the batteries for the preamp on something that really is gnarly sounding. lol It would be a perfect time to do a video on the wireless systems since all of the frequencies that musical wireless equipment runs on is being sold off and will be rendering all of our wireless gear useless very soon.

[bmiranda2645]

@groovydjs My brother is studying to be a sound engineer and I think I remember him telling me something a bout a wireless banning act...something to do with concert venues and the interference that they cause from frequencies. I think that's totally lame. I always thought wireless microphone/instrument transmitters are deliberately designed to have a short range whilst maintaining fidelity. I don't get why they'd pose a threat if airplanes fly miles in the sky.

[groovydjs]

@bmiranda2645 Yeah, it's really lame, people "own the airwaves" and are selling off all of the musical instrument frequencies. Very piss poor of them. Whatcha gonna do? It's a crazy world.

[foolintherain100]

i was blown away by its distorted sound! are you plugging it straight into the amp?

[groovydjs]

@foolintherain100 Yeah, it does sound great with the distortion.  I'm plugged straight into the amp except for a volume pedal in between. So, it's just the distortion from the Johnson amp.

[AerosmithVault]

really nice guitar , i guess u either love or hate the body shape , lol , i love it !

[groovydjs]

@AerosmithVault I hear you. I love the body style. So comfortable to sit down and play as well.

[gsstrings]

I do remember an old picture of Ace with one of those. I guess they where all wired that way? Had me thinking maybe it was a factory screw up.That top switch seemed to trow it back in phase. I would have to at least open her up and take a look

[groovydjs]

@gsstrings Yeah, quite a funky wiring job. I know they changed it really quickly in the next year or two and went with the two humbuckers and still the same knobs and number of switches, but I can't remember if they kept the actual wiring the same with the addition of the humbuckers.

[jamesdurnford]

sounds good. dont sound any different if hendrix played it. amps baby. yes it is ugly but you do a good job with a ugly girl. lol

[groovydjs]

@jamesdurnford LMAO. Thanks a lot. Too funny.

[KazmanTheGuitarist]

this is a very cool looking guitar man! good sounding too

[groovydjs]

@KazmanTheGuitarist Thank you, just a very different guitar. Not for everybody. I'm actually going to have a custom guitar made shaped just like it but loaded up with what I like in it and of course....a loud paint job.  lol

[KazmanTheGuitarist]

@groovydjs hahaha cant wait to see that guitar.

[SaskStrum]

Great review! I'll pass on this one and stick with my newly purchased Viper

[groovydjs]

@SaskStrum Very good call. The Vipers don't play as well as these, but they sure do sound better. If this one simply had a new pickguard with Strat guts dropped in it.....it would be unstoppable. But that is for someone else to do. This is simply for the collection, not for any gigs. But you are quite right....the Viper III and II's sound amazing and these things sound horrible.