umm...your dictator argument doesnt really make any sense. It would if they came up with this agreement after Iowa or something but that's not what happend. EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT THAT RAN FOR PRESIDENT AGREED THAT BOTH FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN SHOULDN'T COUNT FROM THE VARY BEGINNING! They all signed off on this so they can't turn around and say they didn't know what they were getting into. Hillary's argument is and always will be pathetic when it comes to this particular topic.
Does it really matter? I mean Obama or Hillary, I mean this is an election of who is the better of the worse, not the better of the best....for all that matters they might of flipped a coin...I live in Florida and no I'm not Democrat however down here, the Dems, feel Obama didn't deserve one delegate from our state let alone half, that's a bigger blow than having them not count at all...You'll find that a large number of Democrats will refuse to vote in November..Democrats cut their own throats!
Cummon now.....does anybody really care? Yesterday, after all of the hoopla, Florida and Michigan delegates were, in the likeness of black people of the past, awarded a 1/2 vote. Next time, (and there will be a next time for Democratic party), just flip a fuckin coin to nominate the candidate and get it over with. The icing to me, is that today, "American" citizens in PUERTO FUCKING RICO, are casting their votes. Something wrong here?
Mccain is laughing his ass off at both of them......Democrats are cutting their own throats....I know Florida voters will refuse to vote in November..Michigan would of most likely voted for Clinton..the delegates given Obama on a split were non-deserving..some Democrats will vote the opposite out of spite....they just handed the Presidential election to the Republicans
muskiskoka, you are no democrat if you vote for McCain. It's obvious from your posts that you are either ignorant of what's happened or you are easily manipulated by the CLINTON MACHINE
I agree with Donna Brazil. There are rules in a game and we are suppose to follow the rules. When we want to change the rules near the end because we are losing it's called "cheating." So blunt, so true. As it 1/2 delegates were seated, which goes against the rules but allows votes to be counted and fair to both canidates. The very person who cried "fowl play" is the one who doesn't want to play by the rules ~ Hilary.
muskiskoka, Hillary can't give away votes that didn't belong to her in the first place. It's obvious you are not aware of simple rules and regulations or democracy.
in Michigan they voted to give obama 4 of her delegates which equated 600,000 votes!!
Plus they gave obama all of the other votes intended for John Edwards and other. the least the obama campaign could have done is give those votes back!
muskis, FL & MI primaries were held before 2/5 and were therefore penalized for being held early.The voters in both states knew this at the time they voted. Hillary knew this from the get go as well, because at the time she was winning by 30%. When she began to lose she wanted those votes. It doesn't work that way. It's called "cheating." The DNC used democracy to come to a decision which was fair to both canidates. MI should not have been counted, so the fact she got anything was generous.
lorna what on earth are you yammering about. people went in the voting booth and put an X beside Hillary Clinton's name. How much CLEARER can it get. dimwit
muskiskoka, people went into the voting booth and put an "x" beside Hillary's name in which they KNEW would not count at the end of the day. Comprende? Even Hillary stated the votes in MI wouldnt' count, but changed her mind when she realized she was losing. She tried to cheat in both states and DNC didn't allow it! ya numpty.
who the hell cares if they were told it wasnt gonna count or not, the fact is that they voted obviously because they prefer her or they wouldnt have voted for her. yes they all agreed the votes werent going to be counted but seeing as how the results were soo close, they obviously HAD to make them count. that was the tie breaker! she didnt try to cheat. obama who chose to take his name off the ballot even though he knew Hillary was gonna be on it. he thought he could win more votes that way!
muskiskoka, you are greatly misinformed. Not only Barrak, but others such as Edwards kept their names off the ballot purposely, because they knew THE VOTES IN MI & FL WOULD NOT COUNT.The DNC came to a fair decision to both parties involved, given these votes should not have counted at all. Barrak was ahead of her in delegates & she needed 87% to win~ wasn't possible, and he won fair & square. Look @ the numbers!!!
lorna bitch, i have read your Bull Shit on here long enough. They did give Obama All of the votes casted for Edwards & the others. And then they gave him another several hundred thousand votes which were indeed cast for Hillary Clinton. She won the popular vote. You need to stop your shit now. Your helping to divide the party. Your candidate got the nomination isnt that enough for you. Must you continue your shameful bashing.
Icd, why the name calling? You can't dispute facts can you? The primaries were held before 2/5 & were penalized. Take that on board! Everyone with intelligence knows she tried to count votes that did not belong to her & the DNC had to reach a decision which was fair to both parties.
It's over & Hillary FINALLY endorsed Barrak. Hopefully, we will move the hell on now.
you remind me of george bush who always says "stay the course in iraq" no matter what happens we must stay the course in iraq" well hunney things change and so we must change along with them. its called being smart!! they had to make the votes count because of the unexpected closeness of the race and plus the outrage from the Michigan and FLorida voters!!!!
Hillary used the media to stir up shit in FL, but there's no comparison. In 2000 there was a Presidential election that was corrupt, while this is a primary in which Hillary had already lost thru delegates. Every night the delegate # was posted and he was a head of her BEFORE MI & FL, and regardless she could not have beat him. It's pointless to argue these facts.
No No dear, let me correct your lying ass. In fact the media bashed Hillary and indeed kept dissng her when it came to the re-vote/ recount dilemma. There are many in the Demoncratruic party that asked for a re-vote but barack opposed it because he well knew trhat he could not win. He and his surrogates put blocks in that every step of the way. James Carvel even offered to pay for the revote through his own comittee but again barack threw cold water on the idea. it is obvious he's a manipulator!
Icd, I've been watching the primaries from the get go and there's no lying involved on my part. However you're clearly mis-informed. FL&MI accepted the penalization & did not want a revote on a primary election. It was only a handful of zealots for Hillary who were present at the DNC Committe meet making noise. The drunk woman thrown out was from NY ~ no ties with FL/MI. Doesn't matter, because she would have needed "87%" of the remaining delegates ~impossible, end of story.
Ok, if clinton was genuinely concerned about democracy she should have raise her objections to having Florida and Michigan penalised when the rules were first proposed not when her campaign was in jeopardy.
Having no rules means anarchy. Rules do create order. Rules are meant to protect, but also, with each rule give freedom to one, and deny another freedom.
Organizations are built to porpagate themselves. Rules are used to insure this. People of power like creating rules to establish order and maintain their power. The rules are too powerful when they deny
people in this way.
Life is not about ruling the world dictatorially as this party desires, it is about pleasing God.
I want Obama to win. I don't think Michigan should count because Obama's name was not even on teh ballot. So how could that be fair if that counts. Florida, i don't want to count because they were told not to campaign and Obama did not and Hillary did and she shouldn't win because of that.
Count them. Obama is the candidate of CHANGE?seems funny that the change candidate has all the old white haired senators on his side.The old guard are working there old boy network to get Obama in.Kennedy is the puppet master. Chris Mathews is there man on msnbc.
Anyway...i think it's ridiculous to have Florida and Michigan count because first of all...none of the candidates campaign over those 2 states?? And everyone KNOWS that campaign DOES MATTER!! It makes a HUGE difference in the outcome. Just look at for example Texas or Indiana...had Obama not campaign there, he would have 15 to 20% lost!! So for Hillary to suggest that FL & MI count shows her dishonesty, stupidity and a sign of desperation.
"its not the voters who broke the rules you dumb prick"
Dont like it? Vote them out of office next time, cause they fucked FL and Mich over bigtime.
Doesnt make the voters exempt. THATS democracy for you. Its a Representative based Republic with a Democratic voting system. Therefore the politicians in place to make those calls, are put there BY the VOTER. It is the Representatives responsability to do what he/she thinks the people want.
"lordblb is an idiot , he doesnt realize that in november those people that got dissed WILL vote for revenge!"
Revenge? Are you fucking kidding me? muskiskoka, you're an ignorant, unrelenting, stubborn SOB, that has absolutely no idea what a Representative Democracy is...
if you keep dissing our candidate, Hillary we will make you pay dearly in the general election so keep it up ok.
if we have obama as the nominee, we as Hillary supportors will sabotage the election and make Mccain win. And that's a promise. we are the key to this general election. you don't wanna fuck with us. Thank you!!
Well the Democratic Party is really stupid to come up with such roles!! I mean if they start this shit on FL and MI, those states should be considered two seperate countires if their votes are considered worthless to the Democratic Party which this fucking stupid. This sounds like dictatorship process to me instead of a democratic process.
Um, there are rules to every voting process. There is also time windows given to each state to cast its votes. If they do not obey the time windows, they are breaking the rules. I don't know how much more simple they could make it.
AND Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan Ballots...
I see your point and it is over but if the democratic party really wanted to make this a fair process,they would have done the FL and MI primaries all over again and have Hillary & Obama on the ballot so all the candiates could have a share of the peoples votes of the 2 states.I understand that obama AGREED not to have his name on the ballot in MI and Hillary had similar AGREEMENTS at the time, but no one antisapated the race to be this close so break the weird rules they set up for all I care.
Trust me all Obama supporters should be asking for the Michigan and Florida Delegates to be seated.
I just did the math, and if we give Obama the uncommitted (which is reasonable because every candidate who would be in that set (Edwards, Dodd, and Obama) would support Obama). Then he actually has enough, along with his earned Florida Delegates, to be the Nominee.
I Think Hillary should get all the Michigan delegates and her share of the Florida delegates. It is Obama's fault his name was not on the ballot in Michigan. Do not disenfranchise the people of Michigan and Florida. The right to vote belongs to the people not the DNC.
If the states followed the rules in the first place they wouldn't be in this mess.
I agree with you about Florida that Clinton should get her share, but in the Michigan Primaries about 41% of the people Voted "undecided" in which those votes could of went to Obama.
heyyyy!!! i don't think its the peoples fault and i refuse to take blame for 8 years of problems... its the way they do stuff in florida.. they need more organization or something... -obama08
It'd simple. Hillary signed a pledge not to campaign in FL/MI. She said she would not count their vote. Now she wants to go against her pledge.
It's simple, it may be unfair on FL/MI but Hillary should be disqualified for violating her promise AND for going back on her word, thereby meaning that all FL/MI delegates are free to vote for whoever they choose. Obama or say for example Edwards. That would be the only reasonable fair response to Clinton's rule-breaking.
NO - Barack's name wasn't even on the ballot here in Michigan - I'm Republican born & raised, I wanted to place my voice for Barack yet didn't because I knew not only was his name wouldn't be on the ballot but it wouldn't count anyway. Is this Michigan's fault? maybe their government but not the people of Michigan!
It's funny how Hillary wants to "enfranchise" voters in Michigan and Florida to boost her popular vote so that she can then argue that the superdelegates should disenfranchise all 50 states primary voters and reverse the delegate count. This ridiculous argument is then predicated on two others, that traditionally Republican states' primaries don't really count (so chuck out their votes) and that caucuses are unfair (chuck them out too). She cares about winning, and little else.
Florida has been giving us problems since 2000. I say we chop it off of the U.S. map. Connect it with Cuba. Anybody want to buy a shitty state who always fcks up everybody's elections.
I think that Florida has a legitimate case to make that their delegation should be seated; after all, it was a Republican legislature that moved up the date of the primary, the Florida Democrats were powerless to stop it. And at least everyone's name was on the ballot there.
Michigan? No way. Hillary's name was the only one on the ballot, and the date was moved entirely because of Iowa Penis Envy. Revote, or stay home. And that's speaking as a Michigander.
We Clintonians want a mail in election so all our illegal hispanics and their underage illegal children in Florida can vote as well. If not, we will try to buy the Super delegates. We will gladly destroy the democratic party before we concede!
The only way I think the Michigan and Florida votes make a difference is to evenly split the delegates. This way the states that played by the rules can still have a say in who they want as president. maybe next time these states will play by the rules. Although you can't blame the people of these states but the people that was over this decision
NO - Barack's name wasn't even on the ballot here in Michigan - I'm Republican born & raised, I wanted to place my voice for Barack yet didn't because I knew not only was his name wouldn't be on the ballot but it wouldn't count anyway.
Is this Michigan's fault? maybe their government but not the people of Michigan!
I have a better idea. If the DNC and GOP doesn't seat all of Florida delegates I think the state legislators should pass a bill saying that the DNC and GOP candidates will be barred from the Florida ballot in November. Of course its no skin off the GOP nose to seat all of Florida delegates, unlike the DNC.
I just can't beleive that the democrates are willing to disenfrachise 2 million voters!
It is a farce. If the DNC punished MI & FL for moving their primaries up, y would it even be a consideration to re-do anything? They violated the rules and were punished as they knew they would. So why is anyone listening to anyone who wantst to re-do? If anything the FL and MI citizens should impeach the ones responsible for the problem, poriod!!! no one should pay for a re-do. if they do that says that 1-DNC is weak and powerless, 2 the people are confused and caused it themselves.
I will quit the party.I have gotten involved.One has shown that they are not willing to lie and cheat.NOT FAIR.Clinton should be ashamed.What do you think she will do in office.Now is the time to fight and I will be on the battle field.If Clinton had upheld the the rules and ran an honest campaign then I might have voted for her in the general election. Now(only if Obama doesn't get the nomination), I will vote for McCain and see if he last the 4 years before the VP takes over.
Funny how all of the reps. in Michigan and Florida who support Hilary Clinton want a do-over. If they have the ability to go back on their word in favor of a candidate they favor, what is the difference between Hilary Clinton and George W. Bush in abusing authority in order to get what she wants? Is she a democrat with a republican ideaology or what? It's shameful!
I hate this bitch!!you all said you werent going to campaign there but then why do you do it? cuz ur a fucking dishonest shady bitch. you anticipated this and u think u can bend the rules to suit ur needs just because you are a CLINTON?
what gets me is the media just repeat the garbage she spews and dont ask any questions.
Its the same free pass the republicans got in their build up for invading Iraq. These A-holes just stick a mic in these peoples face and say, "So what is it you want to say? What are todays talking points? Whats the spin?" and then not a single challnge or follow up question.
I don't even know why Michigan and Florida being considered for a do-over. It's simple, follow the rules and you can play with the other kids...break the rules and you get punished. All of the candidates agreed that they would not count and now because someone thinks they can get more delegates out of it (Hilary Clinton)she wants to go back on her word and say screw the rules. Screw all of them.
Excerpt Blue U: Obama slammed the gauntlet down to superdelegates that their votes should go the way of the popular vote. The press jumped on this with zeal and screamed how unfair. But somewhere over at the Clinton campaign someone broke a smile. Why? The popular vote can be won with large states only. The purpose of the delegate system is to make the small states relevant, if not campaigns focus on NY, Ca, TX, PA...see where I am going. These are states Clinton has won or likely to win.
He wasn't on the ballot because of Democratic Party rules. He didnt choose to take his name off for no reason, Hillary is a cunt for campaigning there, and demanding the rules be changed when Obama didnt have a chance. Im not voting for either, so this opinions completely unbiased.
Where is your evidence...she campaigned there. She is flocked with reporter 24/7 and not once did they say she stepped foot in Florida in violation of this rule. He evens says she did not. Just because your unbiased that does not make you right. One principal you cannot say someone's vote should not count. And it is not good for the party.
you have no evidence to suggest he has muslim ties so stop speaking out of your ass or the press' ass. Farrakhan said he was a good man because he can bring people together. stop being racist. i have a feeling your vote wont make all that much difference but don't sit here and spread lies.
you actually said psedo-muslim and i'm not sure what that is. his health care plan does more to lower costs than Hillary's. Having a mandate doesn't necessarily mean that it's a better plan. If that were the case, we could mandate every American buy a house and cure homelessness that way... being without housing is unAmerican
then you have the wisdom not to consent before the election happens, not after you see that you won 50% of the vote. If she lost in Florida and Michigan you wouldn't hear a peep about them...let's be real!
everyone should have health care but adults should not be forced to buy it- that's socialism! and these idiots who keep saying he's a muslim should go jump in a hole
Hitlery wants to count votes when she's the only candidate on a ballot. It's been done before in Hitler's Germany, Pinochet's Chile, Nutjob's N. Korea, Stalin's USSR, Marcos' Phillipines, Hillary's Michigan & Hillary's Florida. Say no to the 28 year occupation of the executive branch by the Clinton/Bush crime syndicate. It's time for a change, a big change.
If Howard Dean and the DNC don't allow my Floridian vote to count, I simply will not give the Democratic Party my vote in the Fall. They play a dangerous game of alienating Democrats in the state of Florida. If they're not willing to budge on this issue, when we had no controll over it, then I'll punish the DNC in the Fall and vote for McCain
Is there an issue that Michael isn't full of crap on? Unless he's being a devil's advocate, I've never seen him make an argument that wasn't full of deushbaggery.
People want to complain "dont ignore the voters" but if you ask me, none of the candidates had an equal ground in those states so you would still be ignoring the rights of those voters who did not go out that day because they though theirs would not be counted. You would be ignoring the voters if there was only one democratic candidate on the michigan vote. Would you all still be complaining if Obama won these two states?
You know what, I say let Hillary get the votes in Florida and Michigan. Even though she agreed to the DNC rules before, even though Obama was not on a ballot and even though hillary wen to florida when all the other candidates agreed not to, let her have it.
Obama will not make a big issue about this because he doesn't want to disrespect the people who came out to vote.
But RULES ARE RULES and Hillary is blatantly trying to break them. People need to know how unethical the Clinton camp is. This isn't spinning, this isn't mud slinging. This is fact. How can anyone admire Hillary Clinton?
PLEASE PASS THIS LINK ON IF YOU ARE FOR FAIRNESS. DO YOUR AMERICAN DUTY.
There's been a Clinton or Bush in the executive branch since 1981. Please stop the insanity. We need to get the garbage out of the presidency or as vice president. Keep her fat ass out and her piece of crap husband. It's about power for a group of privileged elite, not democracy.
Search "Mena Arkansas" and try not to puke about Hillary and Bill's money laundering of Barry Seal's cocaine trafficing at Mena Airport. They used the dirty cash and the Arkansas Development Finance Authority and her Rose Law Firm to make loans to anyone who would give bill 50,000 dollars.
Anyone else who did 1/4 of what Hillary did would be gone. They highjacked the Democratic party and are running the two party system into the ground.
It's not a democracy if those votes in FL and MI end up not counting. The party has been saying that those states got punished for violating the primary rules but it seems to me that it's the people who got punished and they had nothing to do with this.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
What the fuck can we do, Cenk?? I'm from Michigan and I found out much later it was moved up and all that bullshit! Nobody asked me shit!! The Michigan Democratic party just did it! Besides, even if we did do it like that, who cares? Getting rid of Michigan n Florida, two major states, is stupid! YOu will probably lose those states to the Republicans, u dumbasses!! Cenk...ur good people, but today.....GO FUCK YOURSELF!!
Billary, actually appeared in Florida for photo-ups and other publicity gathering opportunities, contrary to her promise not to campaign there! She cannot be trusted to keep her own word... yet she says she trusted Bushainy to "not attack" Iraq without congress approval! Tell me, what's the difference between the Clintons and the Bushes? Two sides of the same coin!
I want Obama too, but Cenk is wrong here. It is hardly the fault of FL and MI primary voters that their states and the Dem party were too proud to comprimise on a solution to allow their votes to count.
Is that guy arguing about Florida and Michigan a Clinton supporter or what? He is upset about the F and M delegates not being seated, and yet has no problem with geremandering the election for Clinton with UNdemocratic "Super Delegates"? What a weak sister.
If the Clintons let this go to the convention and wins the super delegates the Democratic party will explode! Young people will disappear and stay home in November. Hillary will lose in November because Independents will go for McCain. The Barack love train needs to kick ass in these upcoming primaries to keep that from happening. Even if he holds her to a draw in these states he can pull it off. I hope the supers don't fuck this up.
the only fair thing for the voters is to do those states again. you certainly cant count the elections they had, but getting your vote tossed because of what bonehead party leaders do is lame. its interesting how peoples interest in democracy fluctuates depending on whether they think they will like the outcome. i support obama, but those voters are getting stiffed. i just hope he puts her away so decisively that everyone can just cool down and move forward.
I agree totally. MI and FL where dumbasses and they should be punished for it, but it was not the normal voters' fault. You have to be pragmatic too. The states should reasonably pay for it themselves but barring that, it would probably be worth it for the party if it means a better chance to win those states by not pissing off the voters.
heated argument. But i'm with Cenk. Michigan and Florida chose to break the party rules, and they knew this would happen by doing that. Although, the DNC could be nice to them and give them a re-vote.
umm...your dictator argument doesnt really make any sense. It would if they came up with this agreement after Iowa or something but that's not what happend. EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT THAT RAN FOR PRESIDENT AGREED THAT BOTH FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN SHOULDN'T COUNT FROM THE VARY BEGINNING! They all signed off on this so they can't turn around and say they didn't know what they were getting into. Hillary's argument is and always will be pathetic when it comes to this particular topic.
UGOTDAJACK 3 years ago
Does it really matter? I mean Obama or Hillary, I mean this is an election of who is the better of the worse, not the better of the best....for all that matters they might of flipped a coin...I live in Florida and no I'm not Democrat however down here, the Dems, feel Obama didn't deserve one delegate from our state let alone half, that's a bigger blow than having them not count at all...You'll find that a large number of Democrats will refuse to vote in November..Democrats cut their own throats!
TallFlaGuy4UTube 3 years ago
Cummon now.....does anybody really care? Yesterday, after all of the hoopla, Florida and Michigan delegates were, in the likeness of black people of the past, awarded a 1/2 vote. Next time, (and there will be a next time for Democratic party), just flip a fuckin coin to nominate the candidate and get it over with. The icing to me, is that today, "American" citizens in PUERTO FUCKING RICO, are casting their votes. Something wrong here?
bobbytiger 3 years ago
The DNC is out of touch with Americans & obviously want to run the show without really caring about everyone's vote.
Hillary won 60% of Michigan & Florida, but now these voters are told that they are only 1/2 a person with 1/2 a vote counting?!
If the DNC was really concerned with voters' opinions they would have fixed this BEFORE the primaries were held.
The media was just in love w/ a candidate that could do no wrong & now it's Wright/Pfleger/Farakan/Ayers/Rezko & 20 yrs of bad judgment
deserteagle997 3 years ago
Mccain is laughing his ass off at both of them......Democrats are cutting their own throats....I know Florida voters will refuse to vote in November..Michigan would of most likely voted for Clinton..the delegates given Obama on a split were non-deserving..some Democrats will vote the opposite out of spite....they just handed the Presidential election to the Republicans
TallFlaGuy4UTube 3 years ago
i am a democrat that is gonna vote Mccain if obama is hte nominee to send his campaign of thievery and riducule a message
muskiskoka 3 years ago
muskiskoka, you are no democrat if you vote for McCain. It's obvious from your posts that you are either ignorant of what's happened or you are easily manipulated by the CLINTON MACHINE
Lorna7474 3 years ago
I agree with Donna Brazil. There are rules in a game and we are suppose to follow the rules. When we want to change the rules near the end because we are losing it's called "cheating." So blunt, so true. As it 1/2 delegates were seated, which goes against the rules but allows votes to be counted and fair to both canidates. The very person who cried "fowl play" is the one who doesn't want to play by the rules ~ Hilary.
Lorna7474 3 years ago
the only one that got cheated was Hillary by giving away 600,000 votes cast for her to obama! get it right
muskiskoka 3 years ago
muskiskoka, Hillary can't give away votes that didn't belong to her in the first place. It's obvious you are not aware of simple rules and regulations or democracy.
Lorna7474 3 years ago
in Michigan they voted to give obama 4 of her delegates which equated 600,000 votes!!
Plus they gave obama all of the other votes intended for John Edwards and other. the least the obama campaign could have done is give those votes back!
muskiskoka 3 years ago
muskis, FL & MI primaries were held before 2/5 and were therefore penalized for being held early.The voters in both states knew this at the time they voted. Hillary knew this from the get go as well, because at the time she was winning by 30%. When she began to lose she wanted those votes. It doesn't work that way. It's called "cheating." The DNC used democracy to come to a decision which was fair to both canidates. MI should not have been counted, so the fact she got anything was generous.
Lorna7474 3 years ago
lorna what on earth are you yammering about. people went in the voting booth and put an X beside Hillary Clinton's name. How much CLEARER can it get. dimwit
muskiskoka 3 years ago
muskiskoka, people went into the voting booth and put an "x" beside Hillary's name in which they KNEW would not count at the end of the day. Comprende? Even Hillary stated the votes in MI wouldnt' count, but changed her mind when she realized she was losing. She tried to cheat in both states and DNC didn't allow it! ya numpty.
Lorna7474 3 years ago
who the hell cares if they were told it wasnt gonna count or not, the fact is that they voted obviously because they prefer her or they wouldnt have voted for her. yes they all agreed the votes werent going to be counted but seeing as how the results were soo close, they obviously HAD to make them count. that was the tie breaker! she didnt try to cheat. obama who chose to take his name off the ballot even though he knew Hillary was gonna be on it. he thought he could win more votes that way!
muskiskoka 3 years ago
muskiskoka, you are greatly misinformed. Not only Barrak, but others such as Edwards kept their names off the ballot purposely, because they knew THE VOTES IN MI & FL WOULD NOT COUNT.The DNC came to a fair decision to both parties involved, given these votes should not have counted at all. Barrak was ahead of her in delegates & she needed 87% to win~ wasn't possible, and he won fair & square. Look @ the numbers!!!
Lorna7474 3 years ago
lorna bitch, i have read your Bull Shit on here long enough. They did give Obama All of the votes casted for Edwards & the others. And then they gave him another several hundred thousand votes which were indeed cast for Hillary Clinton. She won the popular vote. You need to stop your shit now. Your helping to divide the party. Your candidate got the nomination isnt that enough for you. Must you continue your shameful bashing.
lcd2201 3 years ago
Icd, why the name calling? You can't dispute facts can you? The primaries were held before 2/5 & were penalized. Take that on board! Everyone with intelligence knows she tried to count votes that did not belong to her & the DNC had to reach a decision which was fair to both parties.
It's over & Hillary FINALLY endorsed Barrak. Hopefully, we will move the hell on now.
Lorna7474 3 years ago
you remind me of george bush who always says "stay the course in iraq" no matter what happens we must stay the course in iraq" well hunney things change and so we must change along with them. its called being smart!! they had to make the votes count because of the unexpected closeness of the race and plus the outrage from the Michigan and FLorida voters!!!!
muskiskoka 3 years ago
Hillary used the media to stir up shit in FL, but there's no comparison. In 2000 there was a Presidential election that was corrupt, while this is a primary in which Hillary had already lost thru delegates. Every night the delegate # was posted and he was a head of her BEFORE MI & FL, and regardless she could not have beat him. It's pointless to argue these facts.
Lorna7474 3 years ago
No No dear, let me correct your lying ass. In fact the media bashed Hillary and indeed kept dissng her when it came to the re-vote/ recount dilemma. There are many in the Demoncratruic party that asked for a re-vote but barack opposed it because he well knew trhat he could not win. He and his surrogates put blocks in that every step of the way. James Carvel even offered to pay for the revote through his own comittee but again barack threw cold water on the idea. it is obvious he's a manipulator!
lcd2201 3 years ago
Icd, I've been watching the primaries from the get go and there's no lying involved on my part. However you're clearly mis-informed. FL&MI accepted the penalization & did not want a revote on a primary election. It was only a handful of zealots for Hillary who were present at the DNC Committe meet making noise. The drunk woman thrown out was from NY ~ no ties with FL/MI. Doesn't matter, because she would have needed "87%" of the remaining delegates ~impossible, end of story.
Lorna7474 3 years ago
I so agree with you!!!!
LovetheRainbow 3 years ago
Ok, if clinton was genuinely concerned about democracy she should have raise her objections to having Florida and Michigan penalised when the rules were first proposed not when her campaign was in jeopardy.
wulf8121 3 years ago
their perty much said so we don't care about your veto . But they count port rico the cant eveny veto in nov
lilwillkersey 3 years ago
Having no rules means anarchy. Rules do create order. Rules are meant to protect, but also, with each rule give freedom to one, and deny another freedom.
Organizations are built to porpagate themselves. Rules are used to insure this. People of power like creating rules to establish order and maintain their power. The rules are too powerful when they deny
people in this way.
Life is not about ruling the world dictatorially as this party desires, it is about pleasing God.
dberry2003 3 years ago
Sounds like an easy answer to me...
Break the rules, and you're disqualified.
END OF CONVERSATION.
LordBLB 3 years ago
The DMC said no primaries before Feb. 5. Michagan and Florida did it in January... DON'T COUNT THE ONES WHO CAN NOT FOLLOW THEIR OWN RULES!!!!
Beagslie76 3 years ago
Why are the states apart of the union if they dont allow votes? (They need to be independent Communist.)
nobssagittarius 3 years ago
I want Obama to win. I don't think Michigan should count because Obama's name was not even on teh ballot. So how could that be fair if that counts. Florida, i don't want to count because they were told not to campaign and Obama did not and Hillary did and she shouldn't win because of that.
02917321 3 years ago
Count them. Obama is the candidate of CHANGE?seems funny that the change candidate has all the old white haired senators on his side.The old guard are working there old boy network to get Obama in.Kennedy is the puppet master. Chris Mathews is there man on msnbc.
peacenikkle 3 years ago
peacenikle , so right!
muskiskoka 3 years ago
Anyway...i think it's ridiculous to have Florida and Michigan count because first of all...none of the candidates campaign over those 2 states?? And everyone KNOWS that campaign DOES MATTER!! It makes a HUGE difference in the outcome. Just look at for example Texas or Indiana...had Obama not campaign there, he would have 15 to 20% lost!! So for Hillary to suggest that FL & MI count shows her dishonesty, stupidity and a sign of desperation.
reptilexcq 3 years ago
I disagree, Florida and Michigan should be counted, it would be unconstitutional and undemocratic if they were excluded in the end run.
LovetheRainbow 3 years ago
"I disagree, Florida and Michigan should be counted, it would be unconstitutional and undemocratic if they were excluded in the end run."
So even if someone breaks the rules (THAT EVERY ONE OF THEM KNEW ABOUT), they should be allowed to continue forward and have the vote counted anyways?
So by that logic, you can set a rule in stone. Do what it says you can't. And then still reap rewards from it?
I'm sorry. But in a 'Democratic' society, those who break the rules, are punished...
LordBLB 3 years ago
its not the voters who broke the rules you dumb prick
muskiskoka 3 years ago
"its not the voters who broke the rules you dumb prick"
Dont like it? Vote them out of office next time, cause they fucked FL and Mich over bigtime.
Doesnt make the voters exempt. THATS democracy for you. Its a Representative based Republic with a Democratic voting system. Therefore the politicians in place to make those calls, are put there BY the VOTER. It is the Representatives responsability to do what he/she thinks the people want.
Tough Luck.
Fuck You! by the way...
LordBLB 3 years ago
lordblb is an idiot , he doesnt realize that in november those people that got dissed WILL vote for revenge!!
muskiskoka 3 years ago
"lordblb is an idiot , he doesnt realize that in november those people that got dissed WILL vote for revenge!"
Revenge? Are you fucking kidding me? muskiskoka, you're an ignorant, unrelenting, stubborn SOB, that has absolutely no idea what a Representative Democracy is...
LordBLB 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
if you keep dissing our candidate, Hillary we will make you pay dearly in the general election so keep it up ok.
if we have obama as the nominee, we as Hillary supportors will sabotage the election and make Mccain win. And that's a promise. we are the key to this general election. you don't wanna fuck with us. Thank you!!
muskiskoka 3 years ago
Well the Democratic Party is really stupid to come up with such roles!! I mean if they start this shit on FL and MI, those states should be considered two seperate countires if their votes are considered worthless to the Democratic Party which this fucking stupid. This sounds like dictatorship process to me instead of a democratic process.
LovetheRainbow 3 years ago
LovetheRainbow,
Um, there are rules to every voting process. There is also time windows given to each state to cast its votes. If they do not obey the time windows, they are breaking the rules. I don't know how much more simple they could make it.
AND Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan Ballots...
That's hardly fair...
It's over now though, and we can all move on.
LordBLB 3 years ago
I see your point and it is over but if the democratic party really wanted to make this a fair process,they would have done the FL and MI primaries all over again and have Hillary & Obama on the ballot so all the candiates could have a share of the peoples votes of the 2 states.I understand that obama AGREED not to have his name on the ballot in MI and Hillary had similar AGREEMENTS at the time, but no one antisapated the race to be this close so break the weird rules they set up for all I care.
LovetheRainbow 3 years ago
Trust me all Obama supporters should be asking for the Michigan and Florida Delegates to be seated.
I just did the math, and if we give Obama the uncommitted (which is reasonable because every candidate who would be in that set (Edwards, Dodd, and Obama) would support Obama). Then he actually has enough, along with his earned Florida Delegates, to be the Nominee.
He has WON!
Lostscholar85 3 years ago 2
I Think Hillary should get all the Michigan delegates and her share of the Florida delegates. It is Obama's fault his name was not on the ballot in Michigan. Do not disenfranchise the people of Michigan and Florida. The right to vote belongs to the people not the DNC.
Ataxicabdriver 3 years ago
If the states followed the rules in the first place they wouldn't be in this mess.
I agree with you about Florida that Clinton should get her share, but in the Michigan Primaries about 41% of the people Voted "undecided" in which those votes could of went to Obama.
Maku808 3 years ago
white noise.
acamus1974 3 years ago
of course florida and michigan should count. this isn't communist china.
julianpuff 3 years ago
I'm glad florida wont have a revote it's there fault we got 8 years of bush and we are now in a recession because of that.Obama 08!
Heccordero2 3 years ago
heyyyy!!! i don't think its the peoples fault and i refuse to take blame for 8 years of problems... its the way they do stuff in florida.. they need more organization or something... -obama08
sahseh07 3 years ago
It'd simple. Hillary signed a pledge not to campaign in FL/MI. She said she would not count their vote. Now she wants to go against her pledge.
It's simple, it may be unfair on FL/MI but Hillary should be disqualified for violating her promise AND for going back on her word, thereby meaning that all FL/MI delegates are free to vote for whoever they choose. Obama or say for example Edwards. That would be the only reasonable fair response to Clinton's rule-breaking.
chunkylimey 3 years ago
NO - Barack's name wasn't even on the ballot here in Michigan - I'm Republican born & raised, I wanted to place my voice for Barack yet didn't because I knew not only was his name wouldn't be on the ballot but it wouldn't count anyway. Is this Michigan's fault? maybe their government but not the people of Michigan!
PurditysPlace 4 years ago
It's funny how Hillary wants to "enfranchise" voters in Michigan and Florida to boost her popular vote so that she can then argue that the superdelegates should disenfranchise all 50 states primary voters and reverse the delegate count. This ridiculous argument is then predicated on two others, that traditionally Republican states' primaries don't really count (so chuck out their votes) and that caucuses are unfair (chuck them out too). She cares about winning, and little else.
papakilatube 4 years ago
Just wait.. They will count Florida and Mich... AGAIN it will be all messed up and chaotic... and Hillary will win.
DC180 4 years ago
Florida has been giving us problems since 2000. I say we chop it off of the U.S. map. Connect it with Cuba. Anybody want to buy a shitty state who always fcks up everybody's elections.
lorenzo8500 4 years ago
I think that Florida has a legitimate case to make that their delegation should be seated; after all, it was a Republican legislature that moved up the date of the primary, the Florida Democrats were powerless to stop it. And at least everyone's name was on the ballot there.
Michigan? No way. Hillary's name was the only one on the ballot, and the date was moved entirely because of Iowa Penis Envy. Revote, or stay home. And that's speaking as a Michigander.
EpicOfDay 4 years ago
We Clintonians want a mail in election so all our illegal hispanics and their underage illegal children in Florida can vote as well. If not, we will try to buy the Super delegates. We will gladly destroy the democratic party before we concede!
runningchance 4 years ago
The only way I think the Michigan and Florida votes make a difference is to evenly split the delegates. This way the states that played by the rules can still have a say in who they want as president. maybe next time these states will play by the rules. Although you can't blame the people of these states but the people that was over this decision
FreakinForte 4 years ago
NO - Barack's name wasn't even on the ballot here in Michigan - I'm Republican born & raised, I wanted to place my voice for Barack yet didn't because I knew not only was his name wouldn't be on the ballot but it wouldn't count anyway.
Is this Michigan's fault? maybe their government but not the people of Michigan!
PurditysPlace 4 years ago
I have a better idea. If the DNC and GOP doesn't seat all of Florida delegates I think the state legislators should pass a bill saying that the DNC and GOP candidates will be barred from the Florida ballot in November. Of course its no skin off the GOP nose to seat all of Florida delegates, unlike the DNC.
I just can't beleive that the democrates are willing to disenfrachise 2 million voters!
Chad435 4 years ago
It is a farce. If the DNC punished MI & FL for moving their primaries up, y would it even be a consideration to re-do anything? They violated the rules and were punished as they knew they would. So why is anyone listening to anyone who wantst to re-do? If anything the FL and MI citizens should impeach the ones responsible for the problem, poriod!!! no one should pay for a re-do. if they do that says that 1-DNC is weak and powerless, 2 the people are confused and caused it themselves.
986sire238 4 years ago
I will quit the party.I have gotten involved.One has shown that they are not willing to lie and cheat.NOT FAIR.Clinton should be ashamed.What do you think she will do in office.Now is the time to fight and I will be on the battle field.If Clinton had upheld the the rules and ran an honest campaign then I might have voted for her in the general election. Now(only if Obama doesn't get the nomination), I will vote for McCain and see if he last the 4 years before the VP takes over.
fannbrice 4 years ago
Funny how all of the reps. in Michigan and Florida who support Hilary Clinton want a do-over. If they have the ability to go back on their word in favor of a candidate they favor, what is the difference between Hilary Clinton and George W. Bush in abusing authority in order to get what she wants? Is she a democrat with a republican ideaology or what? It's shameful!
Taharqa999 4 years ago 2
I hate this bitch!!you all said you werent going to campaign there but then why do you do it? cuz ur a fucking dishonest shady bitch. you anticipated this and u think u can bend the rules to suit ur needs just because you are a CLINTON?
chrisok115 4 years ago
what gets me is the media just repeat the garbage she spews and dont ask any questions.
Its the same free pass the republicans got in their build up for invading Iraq. These A-holes just stick a mic in these peoples face and say, "So what is it you want to say? What are todays talking points? Whats the spin?" and then not a single challnge or follow up question.
mizilus 4 years ago
I don't even know why Michigan and Florida being considered for a do-over. It's simple, follow the rules and you can play with the other kids...break the rules and you get punished. All of the candidates agreed that they would not count and now because someone thinks they can get more delegates out of it (Hilary Clinton)she wants to go back on her word and say screw the rules. Screw all of them.
Taharqa999 4 years ago
Excerpt Blue U: Obama slammed the gauntlet down to superdelegates that their votes should go the way of the popular vote. The press jumped on this with zeal and screamed how unfair. But somewhere over at the Clinton campaign someone broke a smile. Why? The popular vote can be won with large states only. The purpose of the delegate system is to make the small states relevant, if not campaigns focus on NY, Ca, TX, PA...see where I am going. These are states Clinton has won or likely to win.
KB77TY 4 years ago
Florida and Michigan can go fuck themselves. The rules couldn't be simpler. they broke the rules. they knew the consequences. fuck them.
retards.
now30000 4 years ago
I agree! Florida is always fucking up the election! I wish it would break off and float to Cuba
sosouthernsofreaky 4 years ago
Florida is not part of America.
Raul48819 4 years ago
what the fuck
plzIneedhelp 4 years ago
what the fuck
plzIneedhelp 4 years ago
He wasn't on the ballot because of Democratic Party rules. He didnt choose to take his name off for no reason, Hillary is a cunt for campaigning there, and demanding the rules be changed when Obama didnt have a chance. Im not voting for either, so this opinions completely unbiased.
MarsVolta187 4 years ago
Where is your evidence...she campaigned there. She is flocked with reporter 24/7 and not once did they say she stepped foot in Florida in violation of this rule. He evens says she did not. Just because your unbiased that does not make you right. One principal you cannot say someone's vote should not count. And it is not good for the party.
KB77TY 4 years ago
you have no evidence to suggest he has muslim ties so stop speaking out of your ass or the press' ass. Farrakhan said he was a good man because he can bring people together. stop being racist. i have a feeling your vote wont make all that much difference but don't sit here and spread lies.
CarolinaGQ04 4 years ago
you actually said psedo-muslim and i'm not sure what that is. his health care plan does more to lower costs than Hillary's. Having a mandate doesn't necessarily mean that it's a better plan. If that were the case, we could mandate every American buy a house and cure homelessness that way... being without housing is unAmerican
CarolinaGQ04 4 years ago
then you have the wisdom not to consent before the election happens, not after you see that you won 50% of the vote. If she lost in Florida and Michigan you wouldn't hear a peep about them...let's be real!
CarolinaGQ04 4 years ago
I stopped reading after you said 'rules are rules'
CarolinaGQ04 4 years ago
everyone should have health care but adults should not be forced to buy it- that's socialism! and these idiots who keep saying he's a muslim should go jump in a hole
CarolinaGQ04 4 years ago
ANYBODY BUT HILLARY 2008!
buttermobile 4 years ago
Hitlery wants to count votes when she's the only candidate on a ballot. It's been done before in Hitler's Germany, Pinochet's Chile, Nutjob's N. Korea, Stalin's USSR, Marcos' Phillipines, Hillary's Michigan & Hillary's Florida. Say no to the 28 year occupation of the executive branch by the Clinton/Bush crime syndicate. It's time for a change, a big change.
dayglowgreendoor 4 years ago
Bottom line, we need Michigan and Florida to win the White House and the Congress. We must honor their votes to keep them this November.
lizben08 4 years ago
we must honor the rules
CarolinaGQ04 4 years ago
If Howard Dean and the DNC don't allow my Floridian vote to count, I simply will not give the Democratic Party my vote in the Fall. They play a dangerous game of alienating Democrats in the state of Florida. If they're not willing to budge on this issue, when we had no controll over it, then I'll punish the DNC in the Fall and vote for McCain
SpaceMedic 4 years ago
Is there an issue that Michael isn't full of crap on? Unless he's being a devil's advocate, I've never seen him make an argument that wasn't full of deushbaggery.
Uberbah 4 years ago
NO - Barack Obama's name wasn't on the Michigan ballot, only Hillary's. Many Michigan Barack Obama supporters didn't vote because of this.
PurditysPlace 4 years ago
People want to complain "dont ignore the voters" but if you ask me, none of the candidates had an equal ground in those states so you would still be ignoring the rights of those voters who did not go out that day because they though theirs would not be counted. You would be ignoring the voters if there was only one democratic candidate on the michigan vote. Would you all still be complaining if Obama won these two states?
theRebelBull 4 years ago
You know what, I say let Hillary get the votes in Florida and Michigan. Even though she agreed to the DNC rules before, even though Obama was not on a ballot and even though hillary wen to florida when all the other candidates agreed not to, let her have it.
theRebelBull 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Watch the entire show at theyoungturks(.)com
TheYoungTurks 4 years ago
Obama will not make a big issue about this because he doesn't want to disrespect the people who came out to vote.
But RULES ARE RULES and Hillary is blatantly trying to break them. People need to know how unethical the Clinton camp is. This isn't spinning, this isn't mud slinging. This is fact. How can anyone admire Hillary Clinton?
PLEASE PASS THIS LINK ON IF YOU ARE FOR FAIRNESS. DO YOUR AMERICAN DUTY.
THIS IS NOT FAIR !!
llamomanu 4 years ago
There's been a Clinton or Bush in the executive branch since 1981. Please stop the insanity. We need to get the garbage out of the presidency or as vice president. Keep her fat ass out and her piece of crap husband. It's about power for a group of privileged elite, not democracy.
dayglowgreendoor 4 years ago
Search "Mena Arkansas" and try not to puke about Hillary and Bill's money laundering of Barry Seal's cocaine trafficing at Mena Airport. They used the dirty cash and the Arkansas Development Finance Authority and her Rose Law Firm to make loans to anyone who would give bill 50,000 dollars.
Anyone else who did 1/4 of what Hillary did would be gone. They highjacked the Democratic party and are running the two party system into the ground.
Research your vote and stop the delegate fix!
thesquonkstear 4 years ago
It's not a democracy if those votes in FL and MI end up not counting. The party has been saying that those states got punished for violating the primary rules but it seems to me that it's the people who got punished and they had nothing to do with this.
doetim 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What the fuck can we do, Cenk?? I'm from Michigan and I found out much later it was moved up and all that bullshit! Nobody asked me shit!! The Michigan Democratic party just did it! Besides, even if we did do it like that, who cares? Getting rid of Michigan n Florida, two major states, is stupid! YOu will probably lose those states to the Republicans, u dumbasses!! Cenk...ur good people, but today.....GO FUCK YOURSELF!!
lebaneseameer 4 years ago
Billary, actually appeared in Florida for photo-ups and other publicity gathering opportunities, contrary to her promise not to campaign there! She cannot be trusted to keep her own word... yet she says she trusted Bushainy to "not attack" Iraq without congress approval! Tell me, what's the difference between the Clintons and the Bushes? Two sides of the same coin!
Harrygton 4 years ago 10
Word..
MopacMurtaza 4 years ago 4
I want Obama too, but Cenk is wrong here. It is hardly the fault of FL and MI primary voters that their states and the Dem party were too proud to comprimise on a solution to allow their votes to count.
richardshort2001 4 years ago
Is that guy arguing about Florida and Michigan a Clinton supporter or what? He is upset about the F and M delegates not being seated, and yet has no problem with geremandering the election for Clinton with UNdemocratic "Super Delegates"? What a weak sister.
politicomark 4 years ago 2
If the Clintons let this go to the convention and wins the super delegates the Democratic party will explode! Young people will disappear and stay home in November. Hillary will lose in November because Independents will go for McCain. The Barack love train needs to kick ass in these upcoming primaries to keep that from happening. Even if he holds her to a draw in these states he can pull it off. I hope the supers don't fuck this up.
saully1966 4 years ago 4
Weak sauce, indeed. They shouldnt be complaining when Hillary is loosing. Same would go for Obama as well.
mopuffy01 4 years ago
Weak sauce indeed, Ohio will elect Obama, Hillary needs to quit bitching and go back to the senate.
studio7manga 4 years ago 4
Clinton agreed and signed a letter discounting FL and MI. She should fulfill her promise.
jkzupin 4 years ago 14
the only fair thing for the voters is to do those states again. you certainly cant count the elections they had, but getting your vote tossed because of what bonehead party leaders do is lame. its interesting how peoples interest in democracy fluctuates depending on whether they think they will like the outcome. i support obama, but those voters are getting stiffed. i just hope he puts her away so decisively that everyone can just cool down and move forward.
underweightHater 4 years ago
I agree totally. MI and FL where dumbasses and they should be punished for it, but it was not the normal voters' fault. You have to be pragmatic too. The states should reasonably pay for it themselves but barring that, it would probably be worth it for the party if it means a better chance to win those states by not pissing off the voters.
ankprat 4 years ago 2
Florida and Michigan chose to do that. They were told they would not be included if they moved up.
They should NOT count.
Virginian9000 4 years ago 8
heated argument. But i'm with Cenk. Michigan and Florida chose to break the party rules, and they knew this would happen by doing that. Although, the DNC could be nice to them and give them a re-vote.
elshizzo 4 years ago 5
I'm with Cenk, too, regarding Florida and Michigan. What are rules for? If they count, all bets are off for future primaries.
toosinbeymen 4 years ago 6
no one ever said they were supposed to count, so why the fuck are they questioning it now?
i agree with cenk, it's so unfair, the guy in the white shirt needs to pull his head out of his ass
rafael28 4 years ago 4
answer to the title: no.
notscooter952 4 years ago 5
I agree with Cenk when it comes to Florida/Michigan
crazytvfan815 4 years ago 3