Dude you left out the trill from Liszt's Don Giovanni transcription..
The one near the end which must be played with ringfinger and pinky while the big chords are played with the other fingers.. Hardest trill I've ever had to play.. =/
@iPlayPiiano interesting trill indeed. Its difficulty is a bit relative: depending on your hand span you can trill 3-5 and use 1-2 for the remaining part of the chords. And for the last chord (with the fermata pause) the lower part does not last long so one can eventually switch to 24-23(or similar;left hand could jump in too). Or at least this is the one i find convenient. This said, it is also true this trill is often "cheated" or altogether replaced (as in Busoni edition)...
@StockhausenIsMyCat you are missing here many great trill performances such as Arrau playing Brahms Concertos I & 2, Beethoven op. 111 Beethoven concertos 4+5 Arrau had the best trills in my opinion
Thank you very much for all these carefully selected examples. As you see I am able now to watch all your compilations, finally!
Brahm´s trills and octave-trills are really dreadful, op.2 Scherzo the end, very difficult to bring them to sound and there is always the danger in dislocating your wrist at both piano concerti and the Paganini variations of course and you have to be a well trained athlete a n d they must sound what is the most important thing.Very difficult, writing 'against' pianism.
@MashnestMojo >short-duration trills absolutely terrify her
interesting. certainly short trills have their own trickiness as they typically require a certain biting quality which is not always easy to obtain. And by the way Zecchi's excerpt from Scarlatti at 3:05 is a really superb example.
Great video! I think the trills of Michelangeli are very fast and even, I noticed he often used 13231323 fingering to get that effect. Gould's trills are amazing, too.
@pianopera Michelangeli's trills are certainly one of the marvels of piano playing. They are so even they melt in your mouth...By the way I also find 13231323 fingering rather convenient for long trills. But as is often the case opinion vary dramatically when fingering is concerned. In his delightful "How to play the piano" Hambourg suggests (correctly) the use of non adjacent couples like 1-3, 2-4 or 3-5 while (surprisingly) he does not advocate the use of precisely 13231323...!
@StockhausenIsMyCat I think it also depends on the musical effect what fingering should be used. For example trills with 1-3 could be used when the trill should sound quite loud and full -- then more muscles and rotation are needed. Also 2-3 is very stable. Generally maybe it is best to stay in contact with the keys as much as possible yet play with active fingers.
@pianopera ps. Interestingly Ignaz Friedman also recommended (according to one of his pupils) 1323 'as most people know for long strong trills in a concerto, for example'. However, he also had other (more personal) suggestions such as for double trills
1F-2D/3Eb-5Gb...'It's not worth the trouble, it's too awkward'...
@pianopera @ brianCIM I would also include among important factors for the fingering the eventual presence of black keys and the keyboard region. Achieving a perfectly soft and even trill in the treble is typically harder than in the middle/bass region due to the notes higher frequency... while, usually, on the other hand the ear perceive rapid trills in the bass as muddy which makes easy to sweep eventual problems under the carpet…
@StockhausenIsMyCat So TRUE! i didn't even think of that but you are spot on as usual. Now let me go see if i can tame some trills! Seriously though, i can literally determine my health status for the day by the first trill i play. if it is lumpy or uneven than that makes me know: BAD EPILEPSY DAY! lol. Unfortunately my medications cause all sorts of memory and coordination problems some days. What can yo do though. You work twice as hard. I LOVE THESE COMPILATIONS! not ever am i bored! TY!
@StockhausenIsMyCat First of all. THANK YOU for another fascinating study in the technique of these great artists of the past. Your compilations "melt in my mouth" like ABM's trills! Another pianist who used that alternating finger technique was Rubinstein. I believe he used it almost exclusively. I have never practiced it although you make a good argument for it in sections with long trills. To me ABM is the trill master just a hair over Gould because of his range in coloration. LOVE THIS!
@brianCIM I would also include among important factors for the fingering the eventual presence of black keys and the keyboard region. Achieving a perfectly soft and even trill in the treble is typically harder than in the middle/bass region due to the notes higher frequency... while, usually, on the other hand the ear perceive rapid trills in the bass as muddy which makes easy to sweep eventual problems under the carpet…
@St. "To trill quickly we must think quickly; for if we trill only with fingers they will soon stick, lose their rhythmic succession, and finish in a cramped condition. Hence, there is no direct way to learn trilling; it will develop with your general mental-musical advancement. The main thing is always to listen to your own playing, actually and physically, to perceive every tone you play; for only then can you form an estimate as to how quickly you can "hear"." (J. Hofmann)
@pianopera lovely. A trill must always be thought in the musical context. It reminds me of an anecdote of Arrau who was playing chopin 1st with klemperer. Arrau played a trill slower than usual...and was surprised to discover that to klemperer a trill meant always a fast trill :-)
@StockhausenIsMyCat Interesting! I have also read that Liszt, in his playing, varied the speed of arpeggios and trills (just like great violinists vary their vibrato) in proportion to the musical context. So many thoughts and ideas about how to play a trill...
Dude you left out the trill from Liszt's Don Giovanni transcription..
The one near the end which must be played with ringfinger and pinky while the big chords are played with the other fingers.. Hardest trill I've ever had to play.. =/
Liszt was a maniac lol ^^
iPlayPiiano 6 days ago
@iPlayPiiano interesting trill indeed. Its difficulty is a bit relative: depending on your hand span you can trill 3-5 and use 1-2 for the remaining part of the chords. And for the last chord (with the fermata pause) the lower part does not last long so one can eventually switch to 24-23(or similar;left hand could jump in too). Or at least this is the one i find convenient. This said, it is also true this trill is often "cheated" or altogether replaced (as in Busoni edition)...
StockhausenIsMyCat 6 days ago
@StockhausenIsMyCat you are missing here many great trill performances such as Arrau playing Brahms Concertos I & 2, Beethoven op. 111 Beethoven concertos 4+5 Arrau had the best trills in my opinion
arturon111 2 days ago
Thank you very much for all these carefully selected examples. As you see I am able now to watch all your compilations, finally!
Brahm´s trills and octave-trills are really dreadful, op.2 Scherzo the end, very difficult to bring them to sound and there is always the danger in dislocating your wrist at both piano concerti and the Paganini variations of course and you have to be a well trained athlete a n d they must sound what is the most important thing.Very difficult, writing 'against' pianism.
berlinzerberus 3 weeks ago
Well, speaking of trills and arpeggios, Gould got it so right ! He put so much in these little things ! He carries the Baroque legacy perfectly.
KapustinIsGOd 4 weeks ago
You just forgot Alicia de Larrocha - De Falla Ritual Fire Dance, her trills are marvelous, nobody can play like her
ga199337 4 weeks ago
Hi SiMC, great stuff. You will adore Pletnev's trills in Scarlatti's K9, the live recording at Carnegie. Never really heard anything like it.
robert982 1 month ago
maybe prokofiev's piano concerto no.2 2nd movement too?
lol
TheSoken123 1 month ago
This is the greatest youtube channel in youtube history
AcePro 1 month ago 3
good video here wow cool
BHUTANISPARTOFCHINA 1 month ago
btw you forgot a wonderful Beethoven Sonata, which has really gorgeous trills part...
newFranzFerencLiszt 1 month ago
Trills in Chopin's Op.62/1 are maybe the most beautiful ones I know. And my favorites are played by Bozhanov!
newFranzFerencLiszt 1 month ago
RESPECT!!!!
ClassicHolic 1 month ago
I love this!
mancklin 2 months ago
I usually use 31 and chuck in a 2 with a low flexible wrist IM like Martha I dislike them.Michelangeli is often the perfection on this case.
chadmaster410 2 months ago
Comment removed
chadmaster410 2 months ago
@MashnestMojo >short-duration trills absolutely terrify her
interesting. certainly short trills have their own trickiness as they typically require a certain biting quality which is not always easy to obtain. And by the way Zecchi's excerpt from Scarlatti at 3:05 is a really superb example.
StockhausenIsMyCat 2 months ago
Great video! I think the trills of Michelangeli are very fast and even, I noticed he often used 13231323 fingering to get that effect. Gould's trills are amazing, too.
pianopera 2 months ago
@pianopera Haskil s trills are very good also
chadmaster410 2 months ago
@pianopera Michelangeli's trills are certainly one of the marvels of piano playing. They are so even they melt in your mouth...By the way I also find 13231323 fingering rather convenient for long trills. But as is often the case opinion vary dramatically when fingering is concerned. In his delightful "How to play the piano" Hambourg suggests (correctly) the use of non adjacent couples like 1-3, 2-4 or 3-5 while (surprisingly) he does not advocate the use of precisely 13231323...!
StockhausenIsMyCat 2 months ago
@StockhausenIsMyCat I think it also depends on the musical effect what fingering should be used. For example trills with 1-3 could be used when the trill should sound quite loud and full -- then more muscles and rotation are needed. Also 2-3 is very stable. Generally maybe it is best to stay in contact with the keys as much as possible yet play with active fingers.
pianopera 2 months ago
@pianopera ps. Interestingly Ignaz Friedman also recommended (according to one of his pupils) 1323 'as most people know for long strong trills in a concerto, for example'. However, he also had other (more personal) suggestions such as for double trills
1F-2D/3Eb-5Gb...'It's not worth the trouble, it's too awkward'...
StockhausenIsMyCat 2 months ago
@pianopera @ brianCIM I would also include among important factors for the fingering the eventual presence of black keys and the keyboard region. Achieving a perfectly soft and even trill in the treble is typically harder than in the middle/bass region due to the notes higher frequency... while, usually, on the other hand the ear perceive rapid trills in the bass as muddy which makes easy to sweep eventual problems under the carpet…
StockhausenIsMyCat 2 months ago
@StockhausenIsMyCat So TRUE! i didn't even think of that but you are spot on as usual. Now let me go see if i can tame some trills! Seriously though, i can literally determine my health status for the day by the first trill i play. if it is lumpy or uneven than that makes me know: BAD EPILEPSY DAY! lol. Unfortunately my medications cause all sorts of memory and coordination problems some days. What can yo do though. You work twice as hard. I LOVE THESE COMPILATIONS! not ever am i bored! TY!
brianCIM 2 months ago
@StockhausenIsMyCat First of all. THANK YOU for another fascinating study in the technique of these great artists of the past. Your compilations "melt in my mouth" like ABM's trills! Another pianist who used that alternating finger technique was Rubinstein. I believe he used it almost exclusively. I have never practiced it although you make a good argument for it in sections with long trills. To me ABM is the trill master just a hair over Gould because of his range in coloration. LOVE THIS!
brianCIM 2 months ago
@brianCIM I would also include among important factors for the fingering the eventual presence of black keys and the keyboard region. Achieving a perfectly soft and even trill in the treble is typically harder than in the middle/bass region due to the notes higher frequency... while, usually, on the other hand the ear perceive rapid trills in the bass as muddy which makes easy to sweep eventual problems under the carpet…
StockhausenIsMyCat 2 months ago
@St. "To trill quickly we must think quickly; for if we trill only with fingers they will soon stick, lose their rhythmic succession, and finish in a cramped condition. Hence, there is no direct way to learn trilling; it will develop with your general mental-musical advancement. The main thing is always to listen to your own playing, actually and physically, to perceive every tone you play; for only then can you form an estimate as to how quickly you can "hear"." (J. Hofmann)
pianopera 2 months ago
@pianopera lovely. A trill must always be thought in the musical context. It reminds me of an anecdote of Arrau who was playing chopin 1st with klemperer. Arrau played a trill slower than usual...and was surprised to discover that to klemperer a trill meant always a fast trill :-)
StockhausenIsMyCat 2 months ago
@StockhausenIsMyCat Interesting! I have also read that Liszt, in his playing, varied the speed of arpeggios and trills (just like great violinists vary their vibrato) in proportion to the musical context. So many thoughts and ideas about how to play a trill...
pianopera 1 month ago
Beautiful Choice!
malavesmalaves 2 months ago
I got so excited when I saw a new technique video pop up! Great work as always, Stockhausen. Merry Christmas!
JohnEBPiano 2 months ago in playlist Great Pianists' Technique
@JohnEBPiano Thanks John, hope it's stimulating! Merry Christmas and all the best for the new year.
StockhausenIsMyCat 2 months ago