Wow.... Thanks for sharing this. You have a beautifully transparent way of expressing yourself both verbally and non-verbally. I see this woman actually touched you in some way. I'm confident she also learned something, too. You also show incredible tolerance and make such a strong attempt to understand. Rather than preach to you, I'm going to add you to my prayer list. I love praying, so the bigger the list, the more I get to pray. May God shine his Light down on you <3
I did. And I'm a Christian, with a very open mind. I like this video alot. Here's the dilemma, which I guess most probably know.
Christians are told to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Lord. Why? Because we want them to have the same rewards that we enjoy. BUT some people just don't want to be converted, because its not what THEY WANT to believe. Some Christians don't understand this, thats why we earn a bad reputation.
Well, I like how after it became clear that she was trying to convert you, your feeling on her method was that you aren't trying to change any Christians, and you expect the same respect from her (and people in general). I wish more people would feel that way. Then maybe Christians wouldn't be so "cram it down your pie-hole" and atheists and the like wouldn't try to minimize Christians as unintelligent. I have strong faith, but I always leave room for what ifs.
Her frustration might have been with her inability to answer the atheists' questions, and their lack of caring about getting the answers from someone who knew more.
When I've been "not smart enough" I've come close to tears too.
Doug, I'm constantly not smart enough, or at least it feels that way sometimes. In fact, if I had an IQ point for every time I didn't know the answer, I'd be... well, actually, I don't know what I'd be. But if I were smart enough, I'd know the answer to that.
Dude you're pretty funny, most blogs are boring. I feel sorry for Christians sometimes, they're only trying to stop us going to hell. But no one likes to be preached to...
im atheist and truly i dont give a shit what other people are... but its just when people use religion in politics. if someone wants to have an abortion or be gay, i think they can. so i think that the government has no right to tell them they cant do it because of some creature they believe in.
I am a Jehovah's Witness, and I know you wonder why people like us go to people's doors. We do it because we believe that everyone should be given the chance to get to know a religion before they decide its wrong. But we don't debate against other religions either. Once you tell us you aren't interested or you don't want to be bothered we don't come back with it. People have the wrong impression of us thinking that we are forcing literature on them and that we trying to tell them what to do. :(
Many religious people believe that those not of their religion are going to hell. If you love people, than that is very, very sad. I used to be a Christian, and this was one of the reasons I left the faith. It didn't make sense to me that good people would go to hell. I think that's why someone would cry. I feel sad for people who live with so much sadness, feeling the burden to save people from hell rests with them and their conversion abilities. Now that would be sad.
I'm a Chritian but I don't believe in trying to convert those who aren't interested in converting. I respect everyone's right to their own beliefs and expect that others will respect my right to my beliefs. I love you Curt no matter what you do or don't believe.
Very fair and balanced vlog. Your human compassion seems to have tied you up a little.
I feel the same about people right to faith. But I do expect them to understand when and who they wish to spread it to. Seems to be their mission to do so. I can live with it.
Had seen everyone responding to this video and I wish I would have gotten here sooner :)
My best friend Vito and I are friends after 20 years because he is an agnostic, I am non-denominational; He's overweight, and I smoke too much, yet we love each other for who we are as human beings, and never preach or judge. I don't even feel the need to. To me, it's common sense.
Hi, Curt. Someone may already have answered this for you, but just in case here's my answer to help you understand your friend. Of course it could be more of a personal thing on this occasion, but to answer your question about why it isn't enough to "just be a Christian", it all comes down to this. It's The Great Commission. Matthew 28:16-20 ...Go ye therefore, & teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, & of the Son, & of the Holy Ghost: teaching them... It's a command
hi curt!...i just came over from our mutual friend's - sunny and stormy's channel...having long been in some very religious circles myself...i can tell you there is the true faith and believer and then just people with issues who are working them out and using the religion as a coverup!... thats what sounds like happened there to me!...take care,marissa
This makes me kinda sad...the OhCurt journey is now over....I have now watched all the backlog now and I have to wait for new OhCurt with everyone else now (kinda like your lost experiences you mentioned a couple videos ago) Well onto Kenrg now......ps I agree with your views on people trying to preach their beliefs.
Thanks for taking the ride. I sometimes prune the older stuff thinking, "eh, it's served its purpose, time to move on," but this gives me pause to rethink that.
And Ken's a great guy. He's one of a few who inspired me to get deeper into all this stuff.
Good on you for tackling a topic that seems to bring out the nutbags, and good on the commenters for keeping on topic.
Theology genuinely interests me and I like learning about religion, athough that doesn't translate into actual faith on my part.
That said, I find people trying to pressure convert me both arrogant and insulting. Do they think that my conclusions required so little thought that they can be swayed by the theological equivalent of "Wanna f**k?"
I think I have a similar interest where religion is concerned. Sort of like going to a fashion show and finding all the wild dresses interesting... but there'd be no way I'd ever wear any obviously.
Perhaps not a fair comparison, but it's the best I have after the trauma of learning Gary is forcing Jason to eat cheese curds.
(cont from below) After one personal struggle too many in the church & a huge pile of "judgment" heaped on us by "professed Christians" we finally left "the church".
It was like a PHYSICAL weight was pulled from my heart, for the first time in years I COULD BREATHE.
I know not all Christians are this way. How would anyone ever expect to "win" a soul or even maintain one with the jealously, lies & hatred that can go on?
I'm not agnostic, nor atheist, nor christian. I just AM, & I like it.
That sounds like one heck of a journey (near pun avoided, btw). Wow, I can't blame you from wanting to get out from under something causing that much stress. Isn't the celebration of religion/faith supposed to be a respite from stress for the most part anyway?
Sounds like those folks were more about politics than anything spiritual.
Just being... sounds like a good strategy to me. Hard to land there sometimes, of course.
I am hitting this from a totally new view point (by "new" I mean since late 2002).
I was "unchurched". I married a preacher's son, we spent years under the thumb of what was expected of us in "the church". Every time the doors were open, we were there. Every time there was a need, we fulfilled it, not backing my back, just stating the facts.
I was NEVER comfortable with "witnessing" and I HATE(D) being witnessed to, stop trying to save me, I am fine with who I am and where I am.
We are Christians..that being said...many Christians, not us, believe that if you don't believe as they do that your soul is doomed...She may like you and the others very much and feels that you are destined to a hellish eternity, and that brought her to tears. LOL@ 9 min."no one's going to watch this!" Thanks, Ang
Christians have a "Great Commission" to "Make disciples of all men" from Matthew 28:19, also Mark 16:15. She was following a basic mandate of her faith, and possibly felt like a failure. I tend to feel that such things should not be forced - if it's awkward, then maybe it isn't right.
I am also a Christian, and evangelism is a major goal of my Channel here - but I don't generally bring it up in comments unless it's relevant. :-)
I guess it's the feeling like a failure thing that I'd be prone to talking her out of (which probably is just as misplaced as the attempted conversions, who knows). I can't imagine there's a demerit system for lack of recruits like in the military. And if there is, YIKES!
Thanks, Gene. I appreciate you chiming in on this.
*chuckle* Nope, no demerit system, at least not in my branch of Christian thought! The truest foundations of Christian life are love and forgiveness. If more of us would just stick with that.... well, I'd better stop now...
Great vlog Curt, "weird dynamic" indeed. Often I wonder if my religious friends have found a purpose for their life through religion. I wonder if sharing this faith is what gives their life meaning. Honestly, I don't think it has anything to do with my friends concern for my spiritual life, I wonder if instead, it has everything to do with meeting their need to contribute. Who knows... Cheers.
Good questions. I've seen some treat it like something that gives purpose and an opportunity to contribute, some who treat it like a "get out of jail free" card, and some who use it as a weapon. From where I sit, religion is just another human tool with various applications.
Curt, I have been watching your for awhile..and I totally respect how you carry yourself, and have so much class, it shows in your videos. You proved it even more in this video. You stood your ground with her, and yet you knew she cried, and it bothered you. Shows you have a real heart! Thats first class, Man! Kudos to you!!
I respect you Curt..for your beliefs, etc...I AM a Christian and believe that Jesus blood He shed on the cross was to take away the sin of the world and that He did rise again after 3 days in the tomb.
I do not push or force my beliefs on others. I hope for it, and if felt led to will share with others. If they reject it they reject it...my seeds were sown. Take care Curt!!!
I think the reason for her being upset goes deeper than what you have explained. I'm sure she was sad because you wouldnt give her a chance! From the way you explained it, she probably felt like she was being attacked (in a way) by all the questions she could not answer and having the whole group disagree with her and acting against her is pretty overwhelming. When both sides think they are right there is little room for discussion and its probably very frustrating. :) ya know?
Yeah, I'm sure it had to be hard for her to watch the two Atheists hi-five each other at one point. I'm just glad nobody threw insults and that it wrapped up peacefully.
In this scenario there wasn't even a need for a discussion. It's not what we were there to do and there was no need for any of us to change. At least the rest of us at the table knew that because I wouldn't have wanted to listen to them talk her out of her religion either. Ugh.
It's my understanding that lightning bolts from the heavens don't start striking until after 10:00 minutes into a YouTube video...when you start smelling frankincense and murr, push the record button until the red light goes green...
I probably would have countered by offering to convert the girl to my belief system - Analsexism.
Like her, I sometimes end up in tears when people won't convert. Though usually it's the converted who end up in tears by the visceral beauty of what they discover.
"Excuse me? Have you tried it? Then how do you know it's not for you? Try to be open. Wide open. Free your mind."
Some Christian religions believe it is their duty to "save" others. The last pope lamented that the catholic church hadn't reached enough people in Asia and Africa, for example.
As I just said to qiranger in my reply to him, it's just amazing how much madness has been inflicted on other cultures in the name of spreading ones own religion.
I'm sure the people in Asia and Africa will do just fine without the pope's interference. So he needn't waste his time worrying.
I have seen so many that feel it is their calling to 'convert' everyone they meet. While it is certainly written in the New Testament to go out and make disciples, many don't know how to best go about that task. It's something that the Church really needs to spend more time on with their members.
It would be about time if they did, too. One recurring and disturbing theme in history has been all the "efforts" made to spread Christianity to other parts of the world - as if they weren't doing just fine with their own religions at the time.
Of course, wanting to grab land from those people was another motivating factor.
and I can sympathise... when I've been really into stuff (tv shows even) when I've had girlfriends consciously (or sub consciously maybe) I've tried to get them to like the same thing as me, what's the difference...
For some reason after reading your comment, I'm picturing the excited messages I got from Gary after I announced I had finally watched and fell in love with Lost. LOL
Yeah, I can relate too. I've turned people on to some of my favorite music, movies, tv shows, etc., and it's always a thrill.
ha ha 9 minutes! You mean that was the shortened version?!?! ;)
My take for what it's worth, imagine you were into something so much and it brought you so much joy... wouldn't you want to share that? I'm not religious btw but I'm guessing that could be why she got upset when you didn't respond as she would have hoped.
The really sad part is that we generally have such a hard time talking about these things. I find that exploring the reasons behind belief (and unbelief) to be absolutely life-changing, and without it life would not be nearly as colorful. Why would people not want to talk about the biggest questions? The problem is when those on both sides embrace a rigid certainty where there is none. It's still about true and false, but the Truth is uncertain. And that leaves room for some really good talks.
UpDownMostly touched on something similar in his video response to this. Yeah, when either side of a discussion or argument or whatever are unbending, there's just no point. Then again, just because I know I'll never belong to any religion or faith, that doesn't mean I want to throw away everything said in those forums.
I just subbed to a Catholic priest yesterday, in fact: AngloBaptist. Seems like a cool guy.
It's very rare to convert someone on the spot like that. All we can do is place some thoughts about some issues, and happily receive thoughts back also, and trust God to let these seeds grow in the ones he wants to become Christians. Anyone who tries to push someone into religious convictions will soon see that it is not a matter of human persuasion or human strength. Faith is a miracle, and it will not come by human agency. We can be at best instruments of God who is changing human hearts.
As an atheist, I never demean anyone's beliefs either as they are personal to the individual and as such, are important to them. I think your reaction was very caring and all too human as you showed your concern for her. Maybe she has to lighten up somewhat and find that she is happy with her beliefs without trying quite so hard to foster that same belief system on others. Like you, I don't go around encouraging people not to believe in god, so I would like to see the same respect for my views.
And, yep, that's really what I would hope for in terms of anyone's religion/faith. If it works for you, celebrate that and stop fussing over who doesn't join in on it.
I know some Christians are well meaning, but there is a certain arrogance in believing it is your mission to change people's personal choices to match your own. Sharing your point of view is fine, but the obsession with trying to blackmail everybody else with the threat of eternal suffering does not seem to me to be a loving act. It certainly shows a lack of respect for others' personal choices and freedom.
I know what you mean. I had to take a deep breath and remind myself that the person I was dealing with wasn't just like so many of the others I've encountered (who were just as you describe). Some of them are so ego driven with it and it shows. With her it seemed different, although the end result is the same: I ain't joining up so spare me the brochure.
Trimming off tangential fat can be good for the soul. I trimmed 4 minutes worth off my last video. Maybe we should start a religion and call our church "The Holy Church Of The Vanishing Tangential Fat". We could hire Suzanne Sommers to promote it and sell some sort of cheesy fat burning exercise thingy on the side.
Its so strange how Christians think people who don't believe just haven't ever thought about this stuff, like we are going to *POOF* start believing.
Most atheists/agnostics I have met have thought about these issues deeply, often rejecting the doctrines they were taught as kids, where with Christians it's the exact opposite.
Religious people are often more emotional, my bet is she was sitting there thinking about you going to hell most likely. That's what Ive been told in similar situations.
VmanVand did a video response to this (which for some reason didn't attach) where he talked about the low percentage of converts who actually stay Christians. He's a Christian himself, so his insight on all this stuff has helped me figure some stuff out over the last couple years (the magic of YouTube!).
Yeah, I'm sure she had visions of flames engulfing us, the poor thing.
I'm agnostic to religion and the supernatural in general, atheist to fundamental Christianity (though I appreciate some of the life lessons it teaches), but open to anyone believing in anything. One of the "freedoms" of not being tied to a religious belief is that I recognize that I don't know everything, that I am okay with not knowing everything, and think it's awesome that people are searching for truth and meaning.
LOL @ the ending. Now I know you shaved 3 minutes off the raw footage!
I understand the urge to proselytise (after all, they are saving our souls and it would be a sin of omission to NOT do it) but that doesn't stop it from pissing me off. Anyone who does that to professed atheists and agnostics deserves whatever they get.
I am a Christian too, and I think the reason she cried was she was extremely sad that the people she talked to were not interested in salvation. Crying for their souls maybe? I don't know either!
LOL Anyway I love this country, that we can all choose to believe what we want.
very insightful even if it had no conclusion. i often wonder why some folks want to convert people to their way of thought myself. especially since no 2 are exactly alike, even within one faith or ideology it would be near impossible to get 2 to think 100% the same.
Not even fans of the show Knots Landing can agree on shit (the debates over whether Gary was better off with Val or Abby rank especially high on the 'chalk board scraping noise' scale).
So how can we expect religious types to keep it together, right?
if every religion is right , than someone has to be wrong , if every agnostic doesn't care than it must mean they do .
any obsession , even Yt is spiritual in nature( at least the experiencial and contributory level ) , so it seems , whatever someone identifies themselves as or indentifies with is their religion .
we claim to be rebels by embracing intellectual contradiction , but it's merely a failed attempt at absolution ......
what a difficult situation to find yourself in! wow, i hope she learns from this to keep her faith as a personal thing, & to save people can really hurt, both her & the save-ee! LOL! i dont mean any ill towards her, she must take her religion very seriously though.
She clearly does, yeah. I sometimes wonder if on some level they're not getting enough from their own religion/faith/whatever if it's so important to recruit.
But you do know. It was because she didn't convince any of you to go to a Bible study. You see Christianity says you must spread the word and if you happen to express you don't want to, they challenge just how strong your faith is. They make you feel really bad. They even do this crap with other people that have a different faith that are just as strong in their own convictions. We all have our own path and my path may not be your path. The sooner they learn this, the quicker we can get peace.
my husband is alot like that woman. The first Christmas we spent together, we argued about religion. I believe in the law of attraction, and he is Christian. I still can't sit down with him and have a discussion about religion. Some people are just really sensitive.
I think we need a less zealots, of all beliefs, and more leadership by example. The fundamentalist who judges non-followers and the militant atheist who lumps everyone of any Judeo-Christian faith into the same category are no different in my opinion.
With all the good Samaritans, corrupt evangelists, and the argument that Jesus was the quintessential Buddhist, there are no absolutes on this topic.
though i grew up in a very religious enviroment, i've never understood that missionary zeal to convert....and i think the ending of the vid was perfect....it seems to me these discussions are (or should be) open ended by their very nature...
I don't know her, of course, but I suppose some Christians will be concerned about the eternal dispositions of others to the point of emotional involvement. Hell-based stuff seems to do more to cripple than help though. It seems very oppressive to me.
Curt, this video has been on my mind. I really like you, btw. I just never seem to catch people's videos as much as I want. I get lost in editing my own because of my editing style, and other stuff on my plate. Anyway, I do pray and I have also prayed for you (this AM, in fact). This is my thing, though, it's so simple. Hell is of no concern to me. So much of scripture has been exploited and magnified for the purpose of inflicting injury, war begun over matters of religion, etc. (con't)
The most basic tenet is about loving one's neighbor as oneself, though, which implies good self esteem. That makes sense to me. Forgiveness and loving one's enemy is the most difficult too. It's really hard work. By the time we're adults, we've each collected a list of people we'd like to slam into the wall, and we know damned well they deserve it. Anyway, I didn't want you to think I just walked away from this without thinking about it. You're pretty good church, Curt. Ahhhhhmen. ;-)
Oh ... also, the way I prayed for you was just for you to have peace in your heart, and in your daily life. It's not about coercion or anything like that, just about you enjoying life and feeling at peace.
I actually like that idea. Especially after having dealt with the folks who say they're praying for me because they're convinced I'm evil and so on and so forth. They never seem to get just how condescending and nasty that is.
Thanks, Billy. I think you've learned what a good number of us have; that ultimately we just figure things out as we go along and at any given time we can believe we have the one true answer - only to find ourselves looking at the world differently later on down the road.
And I don't know where I was going with this comment either.
Or maybe I got there but kept going and passed it?
Way to get a ton of comments! Her tears: maybe deep down her discussion with you guys hinted to her that her beliefs made little sense, plus her inability to make an impression on you caused it to look even lamer to her. Her whole house of cards began teetering and she got scared?
LOL, the traffic surprised me since I posted this so late on a Friday. Usually things just die quick, quiet deaths on the weekends.
Interesting theory on the house of cards. She doesn't strike me as a flighty type who would be so enthusiastic about a topic she was mostly ignorant on.
But I'd guess this has been true for a LOT of people who've "gone into battle unarmed"
Your compassion, consideration, and respect for your own boundaries (and her's) are admirable. IMO - If someone is a Christian it makes sense for them to try to convert you. They actually believe what they claim to believe. Someone (in Western Culture) who says they are Christian just to be non-confrontational would feel no need to convert you; they don't really believe the tenets of Christianity. I actually better understand the former; and try to drag the latter out of the closet. Peace,
It's those quiet ones who I didn't even realize existed until I grew up and saw more of the world outside my well meaning but nagging grandmothers.
And the efforts to convert... I had to go through an angry period before getting to a place where I can now agree with you on the "it makes sense for them to try to convert you" part. 20 years ago, I would have heatedly given that woman explicit instructions on where to put her Bible.
Thank whoever for time, maturity and wisdom.... Oy.
I can still let loose on someone trying to convert me - I don't always practice what I preach... but then that's hardly surprising considering how many preachers don't either.
I am me; I do not try to convert anyone; the churches of years gone by had so much power that for many different reasons turned the Bible that we have today into an incomplete book of books; we are just a speck of something so big that we would have to close our eyes and swallow the world to understand it all.
I've been moved to tears when getting frustrated with trying to get a point across. I've also been moved to tears by adverts on TV. Sometimes it may be to do with the time of the month, sometimes it may be to do with something a little more substantial.
C'est la vie!
Of course she may have been in tears because she believes you'll all go to hell. If that's the case she should have a little more faith in the Holy Spirit ;)
She didn't ask any of us if we were saved, but she did tell me and the other agnostic that we were closer to salvation... or something like that. But we got the easy end of it. She told the two Atheists (who hi-fived one another after discovering they were both Atheists) that they still had a chance to repent.
I was clutching my own forehead for most of it, actually.
It's very nice, the way you talk about the incident with compassion for her, and an attempt at understanding. But, really, the tears must be associated with some other, deeper, psychological issue. Really, if she breaks down in tears every time she fails to win a convert, she must be crying A LOT. So, either she's really new to the missionary business, or there's something else going on in her life that she needs to deal with before attempting to save anybody else.
The convo was fairly calm, at least by YouTube flame war standards... makes me wonder how she would process that kind of discussion in THIS forum.
Yikes.
When I was younger I would occasionally wish I was Jewish. It wasn't about religion or faith or anything; it was just the appeal of people doing their own thing and not trying to drag others into it against their will.
...can you tell how much I enjoyed Sunday school as a kid?...!
Hey- I've been there, too. I'm also agnostic, but I've been in many situations(one more recently) where a mormon was attempting to convert me. I just think that if you're that comfortable with your religion, why do you have to force it onto people? If it's that great, wouldn't people jump at the opportunity to be a part of it?
For some reason your comment is reminding me of the original Poseidon Adventure movie. That always struck me as a metaphor for how blind faith in the "known" authority when the world is turned upside down can ultimately get you killed. And that a priest was leading survivors away from that authority and insisting to others that he (the captain) was dead just... I dunno.
LOL- I actually started laughing as soon as I came across Poseidon in your post, only because of the "I'm On A Boat" remix by those guys from Saturday Night Live. Holy crap, we're both pretty bad with this A.D.D thing, huh? It's good to know that I can share my thoughts out loud with someone who will understand. :)
Having relatives/family who do that is tough. It's been years since my grandmothers passed away but they would do that (more so my great grandmother).
It makes regular conversations painful to get through sometimes.
I think that there are several factors that caused her eventual response. The most obvious is that she feels compelled to share the 'good news' as she sees it and she feels a overwhelming sense of disappointment at being rejected by someone she respects.
Also possible that your atheist friends argument succeeded in injecting some doubt into her faith. Who knows.
I hadn't even thought of that last suggestion. Wow.
Well hopefully she didn't walk away from that discussion feeling like we'd robbed her of anything. I don't think that's the case, but ya never know. Ultimately, it's her journey and we were only part of it for a brief moment.
i watched! even tho you don't usually go down that rabbit hole, that was very interesting. who knows what emotions are triggered in others by the things we say & do.
Thanks for trimming it down by the 3 minutes then! :) Just as Gina was (saw hers first and then looked for yours) you were very respectful of her right to her beliefs while standing up for your right not to be preached to. It can be difficult but you handled it well. She could have had any number of reasons for the tears, but I've been told that they are taught that they are responsible for saving us and the feeling of failure if you really believe in hell, must be overwhelming. Great vlog!
Yeah, I can't imagine what it must be like to carry that kind of burden. And like I said to Brent in my reply to him just now, even an attempt to tell her there was no need for such worries most likely would have failed.
I guess I have to let her experience that just as much as she has to leave me be about Bible study groups.
She was trying to save you, Curt. She was probably mourning your fate, as she interpreted it, and her powerlessness to change it. And I agree with your position.
That's my guess at this point too. I suppose that even if I had taken the opportunity to tell her there was no reason to mourn such a thing, she wouldn't have believed me anyway.
i know this is offbeat but i love your eyes
theheretic133 10 months ago
@theheretic133 Thanks
OhCurt 10 months ago
The root of those tears are beyond your comprehension human.
MrSdh445 1 year ago
@MrSdh445 The extent to which your comments come across as odd are apparently beyond your comprehension.
OhCurt 1 year ago
I had no idea you were Agnostic. I also had no idea I would respect you even more now that I 'do' know... strange, isn't it?
sheri226 1 year ago
@sheri226 Ah, welcome to the archives...
Yeah, this one video pretty much covers my burning opinions regarding religion (mostly a tongue-in-cheek comment, I guess).
Thanks for watching AND for the respect.
:-)
OhCurt 1 year ago
It's a tragedy that so many Christians don't even know what it is they claim to believe, let alone live it out.
mredmond2012 1 year ago
Wow.... Thanks for sharing this. You have a beautifully transparent way of expressing yourself both verbally and non-verbally. I see this woman actually touched you in some way. I'm confident she also learned something, too. You also show incredible tolerance and make such a strong attempt to understand. Rather than preach to you, I'm going to add you to my prayer list. I love praying, so the bigger the list, the more I get to pray. May God shine his Light down on you <3
Etherdancer 2 years ago
"NO ONE'S GONNA WATCH THIS!"
I did. And I'm a Christian, with a very open mind. I like this video alot. Here's the dilemma, which I guess most probably know.
Christians are told to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Lord. Why? Because we want them to have the same rewards that we enjoy. BUT some people just don't want to be converted, because its not what THEY WANT to believe. Some Christians don't understand this, thats why we earn a bad reputation.
anfandy 2 years ago
And a lot of folks on the non-Christian side of things sometimes have a tough time at least giving points for well meaning passion and enthusiasm.
Thanks for watching and for the insight.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
Well, I like how after it became clear that she was trying to convert you, your feeling on her method was that you aren't trying to change any Christians, and you expect the same respect from her (and people in general). I wish more people would feel that way. Then maybe Christians wouldn't be so "cram it down your pie-hole" and atheists and the like wouldn't try to minimize Christians as unintelligent. I have strong faith, but I always leave room for what ifs.
anfandy 2 years ago
The use of the word "piehole" like that always makes me chuckle. But I take your point seriously, I promise.
Yeah, a little more respect, or at least more of a "hands off" approach from all sides, would be nice.
OhCurt 2 years ago
I like agnosticism.
"In God we strongly suspect." :D
Her frustration might have been with her inability to answer the atheists' questions, and their lack of caring about getting the answers from someone who knew more.
When I've been "not smart enough" I've come close to tears too.
Skaramine 2 years ago
HA! That's a marvelous quote.
Doug, I'm constantly not smart enough, or at least it feels that way sometimes. In fact, if I had an IQ point for every time I didn't know the answer, I'd be... well, actually, I don't know what I'd be. But if I were smart enough, I'd know the answer to that.
OhCurt 2 years ago
And see, you're one of the brightest, most erudite people I "know" or at least follow on the Tube.
Wisdom often begins with knowing what you don't know.
You know?
Skaramine 2 years ago
I THINK I know.
;-)
Thanks for the compliment Doug. And for the record, I've always considered you one of the smarter cookies in this big silly jar.
OhCurt 2 years ago
Dude you're pretty funny, most blogs are boring. I feel sorry for Christians sometimes, they're only trying to stop us going to hell. But no one likes to be preached to...
GazzaGlitta 2 years ago
That's true. I know I sure hate being preached to.
And thanks. Glad there was something positive for you here.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
im atheist and truly i dont give a shit what other people are... but its just when people use religion in politics. if someone wants to have an abortion or be gay, i think they can. so i think that the government has no right to tell them they cant do it because of some creature they believe in.
maarte2003 2 years ago
I am a Jehovah's Witness, and I know you wonder why people like us go to people's doors. We do it because we believe that everyone should be given the chance to get to know a religion before they decide its wrong. But we don't debate against other religions either. Once you tell us you aren't interested or you don't want to be bothered we don't come back with it. People have the wrong impression of us thinking that we are forcing literature on them and that we trying to tell them what to do. :(
soragirl6 2 years ago
yeah well tell your Jehovah's Witness firends to leave us alone in Kentucky....!!!!!
parakeetman22 2 years ago
Seems simple enough to me.
Many Christians are under a lot of pressure on the "Go ye therefore, teach all nations". Matthew 28:19 and think that "results" will be automatic.
She failed .. she cried.
Peace!
BluesBrian 2 years ago
You got it down to 6 minutes bro... I too am agnostic, and I think it is time for the "Agnostic Revolutiuon" to begin ;)
Like, you know... we should all have an open mind.
peace
GoneTemple 2 years ago
Open minds... now that would be a nice change of pace, wouldn't it? LOL
Thanks!
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
Many religious people believe that those not of their religion are going to hell. If you love people, than that is very, very sad. I used to be a Christian, and this was one of the reasons I left the faith. It didn't make sense to me that good people would go to hell. I think that's why someone would cry. I feel sad for people who live with so much sadness, feeling the burden to save people from hell rests with them and their conversion abilities. Now that would be sad.
whitebutterfly24 2 years ago
p.s. I adore your video collection in the background!
angie8675309 2 years ago
I'm a Chritian but I don't believe in trying to convert those who aren't interested in converting. I respect everyone's right to their own beliefs and expect that others will respect my right to my beliefs. I love you Curt no matter what you do or don't believe.
angie8675309 2 years ago
The love and respect is mutual, my dear.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
It wasn't bad at all.., I actually enjoyed the story.. Thanks for sharing.
Nanger2008 2 years ago
Cool, thanks for lasting the whole way.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
Sweets I love you!! That's all I've got!
2redheads 2 years ago
No issue. End of story. Her problem...
I wish I had more to say on the topic except that you handled the situation very well...
fehquig 2 years ago
Very fair and balanced vlog. Your human compassion seems to have tied you up a little.
I feel the same about people right to faith. But I do expect them to understand when and who they wish to spread it to. Seems to be their mission to do so. I can live with it.
Zumgilda 2 years ago
Had seen everyone responding to this video and I wish I would have gotten here sooner :)
My best friend Vito and I are friends after 20 years because he is an agnostic, I am non-denominational; He's overweight, and I smoke too much, yet we love each other for who we are as human beings, and never preach or judge. I don't even feel the need to. To me, it's common sense.
This is what great videos are made of!
johnreagannumber1 2 years ago
Hi, Curt. Someone may already have answered this for you, but just in case here's my answer to help you understand your friend. Of course it could be more of a personal thing on this occasion, but to answer your question about why it isn't enough to "just be a Christian", it all comes down to this. It's The Great Commission. Matthew 28:16-20 ...Go ye therefore, & teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, & of the Son, & of the Holy Ghost: teaching them... It's a command
cofcfemmes 2 years ago
hi curt!...i just came over from our mutual friend's - sunny and stormy's channel...having long been in some very religious circles myself...i can tell you there is the true faith and believer and then just people with issues who are working them out and using the religion as a coverup!... thats what sounds like happened there to me!...take care,marissa
mlspiek 2 years ago
This makes me kinda sad...the OhCurt journey is now over....I have now watched all the backlog now and I have to wait for new OhCurt with everyone else now (kinda like your lost experiences you mentioned a couple videos ago) Well onto Kenrg now......ps I agree with your views on people trying to preach their beliefs.
TravMcTavish 2 years ago
Thanks for taking the ride. I sometimes prune the older stuff thinking, "eh, it's served its purpose, time to move on," but this gives me pause to rethink that.
And Ken's a great guy. He's one of a few who inspired me to get deeper into all this stuff.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
Good on you for tackling a topic that seems to bring out the nutbags, and good on the commenters for keeping on topic.
Theology genuinely interests me and I like learning about religion, athough that doesn't translate into actual faith on my part.
That said, I find people trying to pressure convert me both arrogant and insulting. Do they think that my conclusions required so little thought that they can be swayed by the theological equivalent of "Wanna f**k?"
zebidee55 2 years ago
I think I have a similar interest where religion is concerned. Sort of like going to a fashion show and finding all the wild dresses interesting... but there'd be no way I'd ever wear any obviously.
Perhaps not a fair comparison, but it's the best I have after the trauma of learning Gary is forcing Jason to eat cheese curds.
OH THE HUMANITY! LOL
OhCurt 2 years ago
I don't understand how that could cause such an emotional response. I believe you would have to get personal to find out the reason.
sugarandlance 2 years ago
I have enough work managing what's in my own head, but to climb inside someone else's... EEK!
OhCurt 2 years ago
(cont from below) After one personal struggle too many in the church & a huge pile of "judgment" heaped on us by "professed Christians" we finally left "the church".
It was like a PHYSICAL weight was pulled from my heart, for the first time in years I COULD BREATHE.
I know not all Christians are this way. How would anyone ever expect to "win" a soul or even maintain one with the jealously, lies & hatred that can go on?
I'm not agnostic, nor atheist, nor christian. I just AM, & I like it.
JeriLynnKarr 2 years ago
That sounds like one heck of a journey (near pun avoided, btw). Wow, I can't blame you from wanting to get out from under something causing that much stress. Isn't the celebration of religion/faith supposed to be a respite from stress for the most part anyway?
Sounds like those folks were more about politics than anything spiritual.
Just being... sounds like a good strategy to me. Hard to land there sometimes, of course.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
I am hitting this from a totally new view point (by "new" I mean since late 2002).
I was "unchurched". I married a preacher's son, we spent years under the thumb of what was expected of us in "the church". Every time the doors were open, we were there. Every time there was a need, we fulfilled it, not backing my back, just stating the facts.
I was NEVER comfortable with "witnessing" and I HATE(D) being witnessed to, stop trying to save me, I am fine with who I am and where I am.
cont. above
JeriLynnKarr 2 years ago
Yeah, lil bit.
OhCurt 2 years ago
agnostics are merely atheists scared to admit it. I'm not scared. THERE IS NO GOD and I laugh at anybody who thinks there is.
fancyrants 2 years ago
Oh just shut up and kiss me!
;-D
OhCurt 2 years ago
We are Christians..that being said...many Christians, not us, believe that if you don't believe as they do that your soul is doomed...She may like you and the others very much and feels that you are destined to a hellish eternity, and that brought her to tears. LOL@ 9 min."no one's going to watch this!" Thanks, Ang
GramsandPapi 2 years ago
Thanks - there's too much diversity in the world for something like that to be the case IMO.
RE: the end... I didn't even think I was still recording. I actually clicked "stop" before that but it failed to register.
OhCurt 2 years ago
Christians have a "Great Commission" to "Make disciples of all men" from Matthew 28:19, also Mark 16:15. She was following a basic mandate of her faith, and possibly felt like a failure. I tend to feel that such things should not be forced - if it's awkward, then maybe it isn't right.
I am also a Christian, and evangelism is a major goal of my Channel here - but I don't generally bring it up in comments unless it's relevant. :-)
Genebx 2 years ago
I guess it's the feeling like a failure thing that I'd be prone to talking her out of (which probably is just as misplaced as the attempted conversions, who knows). I can't imagine there's a demerit system for lack of recruits like in the military. And if there is, YIKES!
Thanks, Gene. I appreciate you chiming in on this.
OhCurt 2 years ago
*chuckle* Nope, no demerit system, at least not in my branch of Christian thought! The truest foundations of Christian life are love and forgiveness. If more of us would just stick with that.... well, I'd better stop now...
Genebx 2 years ago
Great vlog Curt, "weird dynamic" indeed. Often I wonder if my religious friends have found a purpose for their life through religion. I wonder if sharing this faith is what gives their life meaning. Honestly, I don't think it has anything to do with my friends concern for my spiritual life, I wonder if instead, it has everything to do with meeting their need to contribute. Who knows... Cheers.
NLPNVC 2 years ago
Good questions. I've seen some treat it like something that gives purpose and an opportunity to contribute, some who treat it like a "get out of jail free" card, and some who use it as a weapon. From where I sit, religion is just another human tool with various applications.
OhCurt 2 years ago
Curt, I have been watching your for awhile..and I totally respect how you carry yourself, and have so much class, it shows in your videos. You proved it even more in this video. You stood your ground with her, and yet you knew she cried, and it bothered you. Shows you have a real heart! Thats first class, Man! Kudos to you!!
Hugs,
Rhonda
Rhondakhe 2 years ago
Thanks, Rhonda.
Yeah, if nothing else she and I did agree on one thing: when it was time to stop.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
I respect you Curt..for your beliefs, etc...I AM a Christian and believe that Jesus blood He shed on the cross was to take away the sin of the world and that He did rise again after 3 days in the tomb.
I do not push or force my beliefs on others. I hope for it, and if felt led to will share with others. If they reject it they reject it...my seeds were sown. Take care Curt!!!
jdwoody76 2 years ago
The "information available upon request" approach often succeeds better no matter where the brochure was printed, right?
;-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
I think the reason for her being upset goes deeper than what you have explained. I'm sure she was sad because you wouldnt give her a chance! From the way you explained it, she probably felt like she was being attacked (in a way) by all the questions she could not answer and having the whole group disagree with her and acting against her is pretty overwhelming. When both sides think they are right there is little room for discussion and its probably very frustrating. :) ya know?
thefirmsk8 2 years ago
Yeah, I'm sure it had to be hard for her to watch the two Atheists hi-five each other at one point. I'm just glad nobody threw insults and that it wrapped up peacefully.
In this scenario there wasn't even a need for a discussion. It's not what we were there to do and there was no need for any of us to change. At least the rest of us at the table knew that because I wouldn't have wanted to listen to them talk her out of her religion either. Ugh.
OhCurt 2 years ago
I won't try to change you Curt.
( singing to you )
I love you just the way you are..
**Kisses**
ASECONDCHANCEAROUND 2 years ago
xoxoxo!!!!
:-D
OhCurt 2 years ago
let´s create our own.
btw, you look great. don´t shave your head again!
ralfonzo83 2 years ago
Okay, I won't shave my head. But can I at least wear the long robe and carry my tambourine?
We should name our new religion after Kiwi.
OhCurt 2 years ago
It's my understanding that lightning bolts from the heavens don't start striking until after 10:00 minutes into a YouTube video...when you start smelling frankincense and murr, push the record button until the red light goes green...
anniehiggy 2 years ago
Is that from the New TOS, Old TOS, or the KingThunder TOS version?
;-P
OhCurt 2 years ago
I probably would have countered by offering to convert the girl to my belief system - Analsexism.
Like her, I sometimes end up in tears when people won't convert. Though usually it's the converted who end up in tears by the visceral beauty of what they discover.
"Excuse me? Have you tried it? Then how do you know it's not for you? Try to be open. Wide open. Free your mind."
TormentedByDemons 2 years ago
Sorry, I got nothing for this.
BEST COMMENT EVER!
LMAO
OhCurt 2 years ago
Some Christian religions believe it is their duty to "save" others. The last pope lamented that the catholic church hadn't reached enough people in Asia and Africa, for example.
Ugh
gllafc 2 years ago
As I just said to qiranger in my reply to him, it's just amazing how much madness has been inflicted on other cultures in the name of spreading ones own religion.
I'm sure the people in Asia and Africa will do just fine without the pope's interference. So he needn't waste his time worrying.
OhCurt 2 years ago
I have seen so many that feel it is their calling to 'convert' everyone they meet. While it is certainly written in the New Testament to go out and make disciples, many don't know how to best go about that task. It's something that the Church really needs to spend more time on with their members.
qiranger 2 years ago
It would be about time if they did, too. One recurring and disturbing theme in history has been all the "efforts" made to spread Christianity to other parts of the world - as if they weren't doing just fine with their own religions at the time.
Of course, wanting to grab land from those people was another motivating factor.
Oops, is this another rabbit hole? DAMN!
OhCurt 2 years ago
and I can sympathise... when I've been really into stuff (tv shows even) when I've had girlfriends consciously (or sub consciously maybe) I've tried to get them to like the same thing as me, what's the difference...
21stCenturyCat 2 years ago
For some reason after reading your comment, I'm picturing the excited messages I got from Gary after I announced I had finally watched and fell in love with Lost. LOL
Yeah, I can relate too. I've turned people on to some of my favorite music, movies, tv shows, etc., and it's always a thrill.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
ha ha 9 minutes! You mean that was the shortened version?!?! ;)
My take for what it's worth, imagine you were into something so much and it brought you so much joy... wouldn't you want to share that? I'm not religious btw but I'm guessing that could be why she got upset when you didn't respond as she would have hoped.
21stCenturyCat 2 years ago
Oh my poor Curt. Two lessons learned here could be: Stay away from "rabbit holes and weeping women". :-)
CharTres1717 2 years ago
That sounds like it could be a country western song.
:-D
OhCurt 2 years ago
Good video. Sad. For her. No apologies necessary, I enjoyed this.
monicavm 2 years ago
Thanks!
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
The really sad part is that we generally have such a hard time talking about these things. I find that exploring the reasons behind belief (and unbelief) to be absolutely life-changing, and without it life would not be nearly as colorful. Why would people not want to talk about the biggest questions? The problem is when those on both sides embrace a rigid certainty where there is none. It's still about true and false, but the Truth is uncertain. And that leaves room for some really good talks.
fatblueman 2 years ago
UpDownMostly touched on something similar in his video response to this. Yeah, when either side of a discussion or argument or whatever are unbending, there's just no point. Then again, just because I know I'll never belong to any religion or faith, that doesn't mean I want to throw away everything said in those forums.
I just subbed to a Catholic priest yesterday, in fact: AngloBaptist. Seems like a cool guy.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
It's very rare to convert someone on the spot like that. All we can do is place some thoughts about some issues, and happily receive thoughts back also, and trust God to let these seeds grow in the ones he wants to become Christians. Anyone who tries to push someone into religious convictions will soon see that it is not a matter of human persuasion or human strength. Faith is a miracle, and it will not come by human agency. We can be at best instruments of God who is changing human hearts.
usenetposts 2 years ago
That's true of so much.
Such personal things like that only succeed if people ease into them organically, on their own, and of their own true conviction.
OhCurt 2 years ago
As an atheist, I never demean anyone's beliefs either as they are personal to the individual and as such, are important to them. I think your reaction was very caring and all too human as you showed your concern for her. Maybe she has to lighten up somewhat and find that she is happy with her beliefs without trying quite so hard to foster that same belief system on others. Like you, I don't go around encouraging people not to believe in god, so I would like to see the same respect for my views.
TamHickey67 2 years ago
It's a good strategy.
And, yep, that's really what I would hope for in terms of anyone's religion/faith. If it works for you, celebrate that and stop fussing over who doesn't join in on it.
OhCurt 2 years ago
I know some Christians are well meaning, but there is a certain arrogance in believing it is your mission to change people's personal choices to match your own. Sharing your point of view is fine, but the obsession with trying to blackmail everybody else with the threat of eternal suffering does not seem to me to be a loving act. It certainly shows a lack of respect for others' personal choices and freedom.
FantasticBabblings 2 years ago
I know what you mean. I had to take a deep breath and remind myself that the person I was dealing with wasn't just like so many of the others I've encountered (who were just as you describe). Some of them are so ego driven with it and it shows. With her it seemed different, although the end result is the same: I ain't joining up so spare me the brochure.
OhCurt 2 years ago
Trimming off tangential fat can be good for the soul. I trimmed 4 minutes worth off my last video. Maybe we should start a religion and call our church "The Holy Church Of The Vanishing Tangential Fat". We could hire Suzanne Sommers to promote it and sell some sort of cheesy fat burning exercise thingy on the side.
3CoolKats 2 years ago
I LOVE IT! YES!!
And we need T-shirts. Not sure why, but nothing is really valid until it has its own T-shirt.
OhCurt 2 years ago
Another sad example of how religion psychologically tortures people
GrahamAndFriends 2 years ago
Is it religion that does it - or man?
(I wish I could insert a musical crescendo and some "oohs" and "aahhs" here, but alas)
OhCurt 2 years ago
Its so strange how Christians think people who don't believe just haven't ever thought about this stuff, like we are going to *POOF* start believing.
Most atheists/agnostics I have met have thought about these issues deeply, often rejecting the doctrines they were taught as kids, where with Christians it's the exact opposite.
Religious people are often more emotional, my bet is she was sitting there thinking about you going to hell most likely. That's what Ive been told in similar situations.
TheDystopiaInside 2 years ago
VmanVand did a video response to this (which for some reason didn't attach) where he talked about the low percentage of converts who actually stay Christians. He's a Christian himself, so his insight on all this stuff has helped me figure some stuff out over the last couple years (the magic of YouTube!).
Yeah, I'm sure she had visions of flames engulfing us, the poor thing.
OhCurt 2 years ago
Next topic of discussion...politics? Is waterboarding really torture or just a hobby for Chaney?
Why do dogs lick their butts?
legalass17 2 years ago
Ooh, smell the controversy! LOL
Perhaps if we debate over just how much of a dog's butt Cheney is...
OhCurt 2 years ago
I'm agnostic to religion and the supernatural in general, atheist to fundamental Christianity (though I appreciate some of the life lessons it teaches), but open to anyone believing in anything. One of the "freedoms" of not being tied to a religious belief is that I recognize that I don't know everything, that I am okay with not knowing everything, and think it's awesome that people are searching for truth and meaning.
LOL @ the ending. Now I know you shaved 3 minutes off the raw footage!
:-)
projectblogsphere 2 years ago
The raw footage was soooo not worth showing. Even the camera knew because the audio randomly cut out at one point.
...Man is NOT smarter than machine...!!
Viva La Agnosticism!
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
I understand the urge to proselytise (after all, they are saving our souls and it would be a sin of omission to NOT do it) but that doesn't stop it from pissing me off. Anyone who does that to professed atheists and agnostics deserves whatever they get.
AngryAussie 2 years ago
I agree. I still do it, and I have to take what I get.
usenetposts 2 years ago
Not that I enjoyed seeing her shed tears, but I totally agree. She walked right into that brick wall with little to no help.
OhCurt 2 years ago
think she was crying because to us christians people who don't accept Jesus as there savior don't go to heaven. just my guess
Scorch251 2 years ago
Sounds like a good guess.
Hopefully she's not being pushed by some church authority type to rack up recruits and keep up with some scoring system, though.
OhCurt 2 years ago
Another sad example of how religion psychologically tortures people. Atheism was such a good switch for me. So much more comfortable now.
mwest1234 2 years ago
It's all about finding the right fit, hell yeah!
(pun only slightly intended)
OhCurt 2 years ago
I am a Christian too, and I think the reason she cried was she was extremely sad that the people she talked to were not interested in salvation. Crying for their souls maybe? I don't know either!
LOL Anyway I love this country, that we can all choose to believe what we want.
boobtubious 2 years ago
Yeah, we are a LOT more free here than in some parts of the world, so I'll take a slightly annoying experience like this over persecution ANY DAY.
OhCurt 2 years ago
very insightful even if it had no conclusion. i often wonder why some folks want to convert people to their way of thought myself. especially since no 2 are exactly alike, even within one faith or ideology it would be near impossible to get 2 to think 100% the same.
MicheleMidnight 2 years ago
Not even fans of the show Knots Landing can agree on shit (the debates over whether Gary was better off with Val or Abby rank especially high on the 'chalk board scraping noise' scale).
So how can we expect religious types to keep it together, right?
Oy!
OhCurt 2 years ago
exactly!
MicheleMidnight 2 years ago
cont.. we fear taking ' sides ' because we know we will have to take a stand , ambiguity is a safer route than reality .
religion is a construct of man , as is non religiosity , they are both bonded to the comforting thoughts that either one has the answers .
maybe , we don't need need answers , but spiritual freedom , then we will see reality , untainted by thought .
you can't create with knowledge , you can only perpetuate , you can only create with intelligence .JV
jvforever72 2 years ago
I'm in total agreement on it all being a construct of man, oh yeah.
Thanks for this comment.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
if every religion is right , than someone has to be wrong , if every agnostic doesn't care than it must mean they do .
any obsession , even Yt is spiritual in nature( at least the experiencial and contributory level ) , so it seems , whatever someone identifies themselves as or indentifies with is their religion .
we claim to be rebels by embracing intellectual contradiction , but it's merely a failed attempt at absolution ......
jvforever72 2 years ago
in the game of mind control, tears meant the failure and that she was alone in it. a group thing needed to grow to have her feel comfortable.
just my feeling on it.i maybe wrong :p
Peace =)
czarwright 2 years ago
I've DEFINITELY picked up on that routine from others in the past. It's all ya can do to refrain from reaching and and smacking them sometimes.
This girl didn't strike me as that type. Now if she had kept crying throughout the rest of our little meeting, then...
;-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
what a difficult situation to find yourself in! wow, i hope she learns from this to keep her faith as a personal thing, & to save people can really hurt, both her & the save-ee! LOL! i dont mean any ill towards her, she must take her religion very seriously though.
benzone50 2 years ago
She clearly does, yeah. I sometimes wonder if on some level they're not getting enough from their own religion/faith/whatever if it's so important to recruit.
Meh.
OhCurt 2 years ago
But you do know. It was because she didn't convince any of you to go to a Bible study. You see Christianity says you must spread the word and if you happen to express you don't want to, they challenge just how strong your faith is. They make you feel really bad. They even do this crap with other people that have a different faith that are just as strong in their own convictions. We all have our own path and my path may not be your path. The sooner they learn this, the quicker we can get peace.
Mysticblue1212 2 years ago
Can you imagine what the traffic jam would be like if we were all the same exact path?
Congested and BORING! LOL
OhCurt 2 years ago
You said "probing her"...lol "probing' I watched
kidblood1 2 years ago
I feel compelled to make zapping sound effect noises with my mouth now.
8-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
my husband is alot like that woman. The first Christmas we spent together, we argued about religion. I believe in the law of attraction, and he is Christian. I still can't sit down with him and have a discussion about religion. Some people are just really sensitive.
thatsmisskellytoyou 2 years ago
Wow. Well who knows where that road will take him but hopefully he'll get to a point where it's easier to talk about that with you.
OhCurt 2 years ago
Love ya, man.
Gimmeabreakman 2 years ago
The respect and admiration is mutual.
OhCurt 2 years ago
I think we need a less zealots, of all beliefs, and more leadership by example. The fundamentalist who judges non-followers and the militant atheist who lumps everyone of any Judeo-Christian faith into the same category are no different in my opinion.
With all the good Samaritans, corrupt evangelists, and the argument that Jesus was the quintessential Buddhist, there are no absolutes on this topic.
DILLIGAF333 2 years ago
AMEN!
*with a little fist pumping*
:-)
The world is far more complex and diverse than most people seem to want to grasp.
OhCurt 2 years ago
though i grew up in a very religious enviroment, i've never understood that missionary zeal to convert....and i think the ending of the vid was perfect....it seems to me these discussions are (or should be) open ended by their very nature...
timecentre 2 years ago
All of this is SO open ended and yet we get hung up on thinking in absolutes, right?
I do it too, more often than I care to admit.
Thanks
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
It's my guess that she's trying to be manipulative. That's it.
And yes, I watched it. :)
PragmaticHeathen 2 years ago
Probably true in a lot of cases, but after being around her a while I'd put that down at the bottom of list of possibilities.
Thanks for hanging on to the bitter end.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
My ex is a Christian....she dumped me after ten years of living together because I still don't believe...
Bl4zz3r 2 years ago
WOW! Talk about religion coming between people, good grief.
OhCurt 2 years ago
I will never understand the religious' desire to convert otheres when it's not needed. Seems condescending.
geroldkid 2 years ago
They never seem to get why it comes across as condescending, at least not the ones who keep trying to do the conversions, that is.
OhCurt 2 years ago
I don't know her, of course, but I suppose some Christians will be concerned about the eternal dispositions of others to the point of emotional involvement. Hell-based stuff seems to do more to cripple than help though. It seems very oppressive to me.
kalacaw 2 years ago
Ironically, I'm inclined to enthusiastically respond with, "Amen!" to you here.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
Curt, this video has been on my mind. I really like you, btw. I just never seem to catch people's videos as much as I want. I get lost in editing my own because of my editing style, and other stuff on my plate. Anyway, I do pray and I have also prayed for you (this AM, in fact). This is my thing, though, it's so simple. Hell is of no concern to me. So much of scripture has been exploited and magnified for the purpose of inflicting injury, war begun over matters of religion, etc. (con't)
kalacaw 2 years ago
The most basic tenet is about loving one's neighbor as oneself, though, which implies good self esteem. That makes sense to me. Forgiveness and loving one's enemy is the most difficult too. It's really hard work. By the time we're adults, we've each collected a list of people we'd like to slam into the wall, and we know damned well they deserve it. Anyway, I didn't want you to think I just walked away from this without thinking about it. You're pretty good church, Curt. Ahhhhhmen. ;-)
kalacaw 2 years ago
Oh ... also, the way I prayed for you was just for you to have peace in your heart, and in your daily life. It's not about coercion or anything like that, just about you enjoying life and feeling at peace.
kalacaw 2 years ago
I actually like that idea. Especially after having dealt with the folks who say they're praying for me because they're convinced I'm evil and so on and so forth. They never seem to get just how condescending and nasty that is.
OhCurt 2 years ago
Organized? What's that? LOL
Thanks, Billy. I think you've learned what a good number of us have; that ultimately we just figure things out as we go along and at any given time we can believe we have the one true answer - only to find ourselves looking at the world differently later on down the road.
And I don't know where I was going with this comment either.
Or maybe I got there but kept going and passed it?
Such a waste of gas sometimes...
;-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
Way to get a ton of comments! Her tears: maybe deep down her discussion with you guys hinted to her that her beliefs made little sense, plus her inability to make an impression on you caused it to look even lamer to her. Her whole house of cards began teetering and she got scared?
BoomerChick55 2 years ago
LOL, the traffic surprised me since I posted this so late on a Friday. Usually things just die quick, quiet deaths on the weekends.
Interesting theory on the house of cards. She doesn't strike me as a flighty type who would be so enthusiastic about a topic she was mostly ignorant on.
But I'd guess this has been true for a LOT of people who've "gone into battle unarmed"
OhCurt 2 years ago
I really like the fact you leave so much ambiguity intact — beautiful.
TheraminTrees 2 years ago
When I try to mess with such things, I just leave too many broken shards behind.
It's safer for everyone involved this way.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
Your compassion, consideration, and respect for your own boundaries (and her's) are admirable. IMO - If someone is a Christian it makes sense for them to try to convert you. They actually believe what they claim to believe. Someone (in Western Culture) who says they are Christian just to be non-confrontational would feel no need to convert you; they don't really believe the tenets of Christianity. I actually better understand the former; and try to drag the latter out of the closet. Peace,
Elaina43 2 years ago
It's those quiet ones who I didn't even realize existed until I grew up and saw more of the world outside my well meaning but nagging grandmothers.
And the efforts to convert... I had to go through an angry period before getting to a place where I can now agree with you on the "it makes sense for them to try to convert you" part. 20 years ago, I would have heatedly given that woman explicit instructions on where to put her Bible.
Thank whoever for time, maturity and wisdom.... Oy.
OhCurt 2 years ago
All praise whoever!
LOL Curt
I can still let loose on someone trying to convert me - I don't always practice what I preach... but then that's hardly surprising considering how many preachers don't either.
Elaina43 2 years ago
HA! Well let's face it. It gets tough to actually live out such rigid guidelines when you're also trying to book hotel room time with hookers.
OhCurt 2 years ago
Hehehee I love you, Curt!
Elaina43 2 years ago
I love you too, Elaina.
:-D
And at this point, if I were going to be struck by lightning for such remarks, it would've happened yeeeeears ago.
OhCurt 2 years ago
I am me; I do not try to convert anyone; the churches of years gone by had so much power that for many different reasons turned the Bible that we have today into an incomplete book of books; we are just a speck of something so big that we would have to close our eyes and swallow the world to understand it all.
Peace!
Tinkerlove13 2 years ago
Oh wow, this is a beautiful comment.
Just wish I had something more poignant to reply to it with than "Oh wow..."
OhCurt 2 years ago
I've been moved to tears when getting frustrated with trying to get a point across. I've also been moved to tears by adverts on TV. Sometimes it may be to do with the time of the month, sometimes it may be to do with something a little more substantial.
C'est la vie!
Of course she may have been in tears because she believes you'll all go to hell. If that's the case she should have a little more faith in the Holy Spirit ;)
samsarajade 2 years ago
EXCELLENT way to put it at the end there. If they could just acknowledge that not everyone is on the same path...
*sigh*
C'est la vie is right!
OhCurt 2 years ago
You kept saying "probing her"... hehe.
Bible thumpers FTW!!! Did she ask you if you are "saved"? That question always cracks me up.
NutCheese 2 years ago
I'm all about the probing!
;-P
She didn't ask any of us if we were saved, but she did tell me and the other agnostic that we were closer to salvation... or something like that. But we got the easy end of it. She told the two Atheists (who hi-fived one another after discovering they were both Atheists) that they still had a chance to repent.
I was clutching my own forehead for most of it, actually.
OhCurt 2 years ago
It's very nice, the way you talk about the incident with compassion for her, and an attempt at understanding. But, really, the tears must be associated with some other, deeper, psychological issue. Really, if she breaks down in tears every time she fails to win a convert, she must be crying A LOT. So, either she's really new to the missionary business, or there's something else going on in her life that she needs to deal with before attempting to save anybody else.
kenrg 2 years ago
The convo was fairly calm, at least by YouTube flame war standards... makes me wonder how she would process that kind of discussion in THIS forum.
Yikes.
When I was younger I would occasionally wish I was Jewish. It wasn't about religion or faith or anything; it was just the appeal of people doing their own thing and not trying to drag others into it against their will.
...can you tell how much I enjoyed Sunday school as a kid?...!
OhCurt 2 years ago
I watched it! :)
Hey- I've been there, too. I'm also agnostic, but I've been in many situations(one more recently) where a mormon was attempting to convert me. I just think that if you're that comfortable with your religion, why do you have to force it onto people? If it's that great, wouldn't people jump at the opportunity to be a part of it?
I prefer to put my faith into people. :P
moviegasm 2 years ago
For some reason your comment is reminding me of the original Poseidon Adventure movie. That always struck me as a metaphor for how blind faith in the "known" authority when the world is turned upside down can ultimately get you killed. And that a priest was leading survivors away from that authority and insisting to others that he (the captain) was dead just... I dunno.
Not sure where I'm going with this.
Ugh, even in comments I'm like this...!
Thanks for going the distance yet again.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
LOL- I actually started laughing as soon as I came across Poseidon in your post, only because of the "I'm On A Boat" remix by those guys from Saturday Night Live. Holy crap, we're both pretty bad with this A.D.D thing, huh? It's good to know that I can share my thoughts out loud with someone who will understand. :)
And oh... I WENNNNNT the distance. ;)
moviegasm 2 years ago
Curt my brother is the same way & I am a agnostic myself. Great video btw!
Poeboi 2 years ago
Having relatives/family who do that is tough. It's been years since my grandmothers passed away but they would do that (more so my great grandmother).
It makes regular conversations painful to get through sometimes.
OhCurt 2 years ago
I think that there are several factors that caused her eventual response. The most obvious is that she feels compelled to share the 'good news' as she sees it and she feels a overwhelming sense of disappointment at being rejected by someone she respects.
Also possible that your atheist friends argument succeeded in injecting some doubt into her faith. Who knows.
JimmerSD 2 years ago
I hadn't even thought of that last suggestion. Wow.
Well hopefully she didn't walk away from that discussion feeling like we'd robbed her of anything. I don't think that's the case, but ya never know. Ultimately, it's her journey and we were only part of it for a brief moment.
Hmm... now ya got me pondering, Jim.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
i watched! even tho you don't usually go down that rabbit hole, that was very interesting. who knows what emotions are triggered in others by the things we say & do.
buglady58 2 years ago
Congrats on surviving the entire ride. LOL
Yeah, these things serve as reminders of the extent to which people can sorta be like bumper cars.
Fortunately nobody left that table with visible scrapes or dents.
:-)
OhCurt 2 years ago
Thanks for trimming it down by the 3 minutes then! :) Just as Gina was (saw hers first and then looked for yours) you were very respectful of her right to her beliefs while standing up for your right not to be preached to. It can be difficult but you handled it well. She could have had any number of reasons for the tears, but I've been told that they are taught that they are responsible for saving us and the feeling of failure if you really believe in hell, must be overwhelming. Great vlog!
thizizliz 2 years ago
Thanks.
Yeah, I can't imagine what it must be like to carry that kind of burden. And like I said to Brent in my reply to him just now, even an attempt to tell her there was no need for such worries most likely would have failed.
I guess I have to let her experience that just as much as she has to leave me be about Bible study groups.
OhCurt 2 years ago
She was trying to save you, Curt. She was probably mourning your fate, as she interpreted it, and her powerlessness to change it. And I agree with your position.
Sandguy99 2 years ago
That's my guess at this point too. I suppose that even if I had taken the opportunity to tell her there was no reason to mourn such a thing, she wouldn't have believed me anyway.
Thanks, Brent.
OhCurt 2 years ago
maybe i would have better luck converting you to judaism? j/k we don't do that...lol.
bohogirl1 2 years ago
Now I wish I had left in one of the tangents where I started talking about how that's one thing about Jewish people that I love.
:-D
OhCurt 2 years ago