Did Jesus of Nazareth Physically Rise From the Dead?( 5 of 6 )

[Parture]

Acts was written before 65 AD since it is a biography of Paul and makes no mention of his death in the Neronian persecutions around 65 AD. That puts Luke even earlier since Luke said it was his former worker.

[celioabatti]

mathew 27:35, mark 15:24, luke 24:7, john 19:16 Acrs 2:7, mathew 27:26, Mathew 27 :38,, mark 15:25,John 19:18

JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED!

[vanotterloo]

And why doesn't Shabir Ally mention the gospel of John? You can't deny something that's written by an eyewitness and disciple of Jesus.

[vanotterloo]

The problem in this discussion is that Shabir Ally is copying facts from scholars which are actually highly doubtable and not supported by the greater fraction of Biblical scholars. In conversations I had with muslims this always happened. Muslims are just not able to do proper exegesis and hermeneutics on the Bible. Also christians can't do proper exegesis and hermeneutics on the Qur'an. When explaining religion we should stick to our own book.

[Skyseeker101]

Sorry if I am reading your comment wrong, but I think you are saying Jesus did not come back to life? If you are saying he did, I am just agreeing with you I guess.

But anyway, I think a lot of people don't know what death is. Death is simply the soul leaving the body, and that flips the off switch for the body. Thats really it. I mean, if someones heart stops, and starts again, their soul did not leave. I am pretty sure God just put Jesus's soul back in his human body. And then he went back.

[Abramovick93]

Genesis 2:7: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul"

this explains death, because the opposite of life is death!

i think u dont understand what the soul is!

every living person can breath! Dead people cant!

so the soul is simply your breath!

as you said, death is simply the soul leaving the body!

without breath their is no soul!!

if u die, your breathe leaves the body, which is your sou!!l

[1ProudFemaleAtheist]

Christianity is just as ridiculous as any other religion, even more so with regards to the ludicrous miracles it asks you to believe happened...

and you give other Christians a very bad name indeed with your nastiness!!

[agnostaxian]

1 Proud,

Have you ever studied Christianity?

[1ProudFemaleAtheist]

Quite intensively. I used to be a Christian, and went to a Christian University where bible study was a mandatory part of the curriculum. Those were some of the hardest classes! Particularly the Old Testament classes.

[agnostaxian]

OK, answer one, What do most scholars of the Historical Jesus believe was his "central message"? I find that many atheists set up a carciature of what Christianity really is or some fundy version, then they proceed to destroy it. Even the educated ones. Almost all atheists that I have read (especially the pop ones) believe in the "Jesus mythology" hypothesis, saying this among Historical Jesus scholars is like saying the earth is only 6g old amongst geologists, totally ridiculous.

[1ProudFemaleAtheist]

What do most scholars of the Historical Jesus believe was his "central message"?

I don't know.

I believe Jesus most likely did exist. I obviously don't believe in his divinity, however.

[agnostaxian]

1 Proud,

Thank you for being honest. :):)

[1ProudFemaleAtheist]

No other way to be.......

:-)

[agnostaxian]

1 Proud,

I saw some of my comments and I am sorry if I came across as arrogant, your humility showed me how stupid I was acting. Have a great day and :-) right back at ya!

[DRod3186]

This person in no way represents Christianity with his/her anger/profanity...

[killerdan56]

is theur evidence that allah is real? not really

so stfu jesus and allah are fake

[trueguynolies]

Look at the earth and the planets and the stars and the moon and the Sun all of them unique in what they do! Is that by chance? I don't think so! Planets orbiting around its course, why, what makes them? The sun giving out energy for thousands and thousands of years, how? by chance, get REAL and wake up and leave ignorance! Islam is the answer! God is the answer! Amen

[killerdan56]

hhahahahha ur a dumb person. Science can explain those things.

[Kelrash]

Chance? It's a common misconception that evolution/the universe is chance. What one needs to do is take the backward process, rather then thinking:

"Gee, it sure is great that we have so much water on this planet. Since it's absolutely necessary for human survival!"

Instead, think:

"Gee, it sure was inevitable that humanity, through evolution, would tuned itself to be entirely dependent to water, since there is so much of it."

Damn this limit on how much i can type, but i hope this helpe-

[Scapp70]

If there is any book, movie, idea, forum, speech, or religion that either takes Jesus off of the cross or keeps his bones in a grave in Jerusalem is Satanic.

The fact is - that he was crucified and rose from the dead.

God does not judge on a curve - if there was no sacrifice, there is no salvation for us.

[joyful2326]

I don't understand. If the Koran did not say Jesus was crucified then why did Ally choose to believe otherwise? Is he contradicting Koran?

[kinglearlear]

the muslime guy is a moron biggest moron ever he said we cant trust that ppl memerized the acts.

the whole Quran Islamic book was memerized and then written more then 100 years after that asshole muhammed died. so in a nutshell this guy i dont know his name is a fucking moron the muslim shiek or w.e they call them now i days.

Islam = Is-Lame.

[Death2TheWorld]

Alley is wrong on the dating of Acts. Paul died in 65 A.D. Yet Acts reports Paul as still living. It must have been written before 65 A.D. Also, the temple was still standing in Acts. It was destroyed in 70 A.D.

[cocojuma]

how can i get 6/6 of thes livly debt

[cputeq007]

Alderban - Jesus is the human nature of God. Both fully divine and fully human at the same time.

God shows the ultimate love for mankind by allowing His Son (Jesus) to experience seperation from the Trinity for 3 days (death) and taking on man's penalty for sin. Jesus rises on the 3rd day, therefore overcoming the penalty, thereby allowing faithful in Jesus to also overcome the penalty.

[edammade]

cputeeq007

Is this your interpretation or are you qouting from scripture? Show us your proof?

Let's start with the trinity - the Christian monotheism?

[juglord]

jesus was not recognized when he was "resurrected" when he appeared to him they did not know it was him,because it wasnt.

[tzephon]

Dr. Alli's argument that someone clinically dead could wake up in the morgue (1:18) seems very questionable reasoning and he provides no evidence for this idea in this debate. His point is not clear in how it applies to the debate. Once respiration has ceased there is only a few minutes until irreparable brain damage begins.

[ZeZanzibar]

The Bible, The Qur'an and Science

by Dr. Maurice Bucaille

THE HOLY SCRIPTURES EXAMINED IN THE LIGHT

OF MODERN KNOWLEDGE Translated from French

by Alastair D. Pannell and The Author

Most informative book on many levels, science & history!!! Must read.

[punctum2]

There are parts of Quran, originally not written in Arabic language!

Luxenberg, Christoph:

The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran

Berlin: Schiler, 2007.

ISBN 3-89930-088-2

Hardcover, 352 p.

"probably the most important book ever written on the Koran." (The Guardian)

[ThatIMayUnderstand]

Both the New Testament & the Qur'an CONFIRM that Jesus had the power over death by raising people fomr the dead. How many people could bring back a person haveing been dead for 3 days? And, since Christ raised Lazerous, couldn'nt He have raised Himself? (By authority from His Father).

[GodForum]

How can we be selective in choosing in which parts to believe and not believe from the Koran ?

[Chessnha]

WHY IS PART 6 NOT UPLOADED? A classic form of Muslim-omissions?!

[edammade]

'A classic form of Muslim-omissions?!'

Please explain further? Is this a common occurance?

[plokko]

Where is part6??Maybe you have a good reason for not uploading part 6...Because shabir ally ended very weak and could easily be refuted.And that is what happen in part 6...Craig finished Ally off and that is the reason for you not uploading part 6

[BonjourNuit]

The Resurrection is what gave birth to Christianity. Jesus was the only one in human existence to do so, just as he is the only one who vowed to return.

[Apologia1988]

This Shabir fellow didn't do very good.

[megawolf7]

Your right Apologia1988. Shabir did very poorly and was grasping and weak arguments to "prove" Jesus didn't die on the cross. The evidence proves that He did die and we're left with an empty tomb.

[Apologia1988]

He even misunderstood Craig's arguments!

[megawolf7]

Shabir Alley has heard it all, the evidence has been given and he still denies the proof. Shabir will be without excuse come judgemnet day.

[amooballer]

you will be excuse-less on judgment day. ALL your denials will come back to bite you in the back. shabir is a great debater and full of truth, you just cant stomach the facts.

[megawolf7]

Actually Dr. Craig has the facts. Shabir is grasping at the straws and his arguments are made out of desperation. His arguments contradict the Koran and history.

[amooballer]

actually you dont know anything. "dr craig has the facts" he has the facts, but he he choses to believe in a lie called xtianity. lets see you detail how shabir is arguments are invalid. otherwise stfu.

[megawolf7]

Ha! The Koran say Jesus was never crucified (4:157) and Shabir twists his own book to make it say Jesus was crucified but survived. How lame! That is Shabir's only option because all the evidence proves Jesus WAS crucified and rasied from the dead. Islam believes in a false Jesus invented in the 7th century by a false prophet Muhammad.

[amooballer]

tell me the minute where shabir makes that claim. lets see how truthful you are!

[megawolf7]

Shabir says Jesus survived the crucifixion in Part 3 of this debate at minute 6.00. Yet the Koran says

"They did not kill him, NOR CRUCIFY HIM, but they thought they did" (4:157)

The evidence proves that Jesus WAS crucfied and Shabir has no way to disprove it! So he says Jesus survived! Shabir will be without excuse on judgement day.

[amooballer]

so then obviously shabir isnt gonig with the Quranic explanation...all he needs to do is prove jesus didnt die on the cross (he doesnt need to be islamic in his view to refute xtianity).

[megawolf7]

But HE IS Islamic! The Islamic view says Jesus was never crucified but that is EASILY disproven. Shabir can't refute that Jesus was crucified so he's just going with the "Jesus survived" story cuz he has nothing else! The fact that Shabir can't prove the Islamic view proves Islam is a false religon that can't be proved by history.

[amooballer]

to disprove xtianity, all one needs to do is disprove the theory of death/crucifixion. to do this, he doesnt necessarily need to give the islamic view point. all he has to do is disprove the death/crucifixion story.

[megawolf7]

But that can't be disproven. It is a historical fact that Jesus died and attempts to prove otherwise are EXTREMELY WEAK. The main point is that Shabir's attempt to "prove" that Jesus survived PROVES that the Koran made a historical mistake and is thus not the word of God. Amooballer, If you care to more in depth about that just email me.

[amooballer]

what you call fact, is not a fact at all. there are many historian and even christian writings that disagree with what you say. look up Nag Hammadi scrolls that were found only in 1945 testify to the fact that jesus was not crucified. im not gonna email you, ur not gonna preach to me, even ur preachers didnt have convincing answers to my questions.

[megawolf7]

The Nag Hammadi texts are unreliable. They date from 2nd, 3rd, & 4th centuries & were not written in the generation of Christ like the N.Test. They were written in Coptic, not Greek which was the lanuage of Jesus' followers who wrote the N. Test. This proves the Gnostic Texts untrustworthy.

[amooballer]

says who? you? the church? apocalypse of peter is a personal eye witness account by peter not a third person like other gospels (according to matthew, not by matthew, according to john, not by john, etc etc) and if you want to talk about language, then you need to bring in ARAMAIC if you demand the language trustworthiness. jesus wasnt a greek and he spoke aramaic, where is his book in aramaic?

[megawolf7]

The "apoc. of peter" ws not written by The Peter. It is a forgery, as are all the Gnostic texts. All you have to do is read them and see. Jesus spoke and the apostles spoke Hebrew, Aramaic, & Greek. Greek was the trade language that everybody spoke.

[amooballer]

lol ok whatever you say. no proof whatsoever in ur words hun. take care.

[joyful2326]

Uhh... simply search the origin of apoc. of peter and you can find out why this particular text ought to be under suspicion for authenticity in it's contextual quality. So i don't know what you are "lol" about, your own ignorance?? The burden is always on the accuser. If you said the "apoc. of peter"is written by peter himself, prove it.

[megawolf7]

You talk about "correct language" yet your Koran has Jesus speaking in Arabic! He did not speak Arabic. The New Test. comes from the people who knew Jesus, unlike the the Koran.

[amooballer]

lol. Quran is in one language, not in dead languages either. of course the prophet Mohammad was an arab, so its natural that his revelation be also in arabic! jesus spoke aramaic, do you have his gospel in aramaic? you dont even have gospel of jesus christ! let alone in his own language.

[laayre1]

yes ur right , that is why iranian and pakistan and muslim indian and others they pray and read the quran without understanding any word. yes keep it in arabic.

[Paravasi]

if the would understand,they would abandon it

[Paravasi]

I have his original speeches in Greek. He spoke Greek. He spoke aramaic only in the synagogues.

[Ajunpryde930]

Amooballer, Jesus did not write his own gospel so it's not suprising that it was written in Greek by his disciples (the main language at that time).

[megawolf7]

Also, if a Muslim tries to use the Gnostic texts as "fact" to disprove Christianity, then they also disprove Islam. The texts contradict the Koran, as they say the god that created the universe was created by another god. Your argument holds no weight.

[amooballer]

again, to prove xtianity wrong, you dont need to even use the islamic view point. just proving that the alleged crucifixion didnt happen will breakdown Christianity.

[megawolf7]

Problem is the crucifixion DID happen. Thus Christianity can't be proven wrong.

[amooballer]

lol. ok. whatever you say. your own scholars are still fighting to figure out what/how it happened. btw did you know there are no records of jesus's so called trial? strange huh!?

[Apologia1988]

I can. To be honest I have heard other Muslems make a better case. (Though not agianst Craig)

[dogmaster05]

Craig made the best point. Not only does the Islamic God allow his scriptures to be corrupted, but he allows his prophet to be hurt very badly before he rescues him. Someone answer this for me, please.

[amooballer]

what the hell is the question here. you made a statement, you didnt ask a question. learn to talk before you make a fool out of yourself.

[djemil5]

If Jesus really did die from Crucifixion and then 3 days later rise from the dead, would that be important? Why or why not?

[artsyphilosopher]

Hello Dr craig...do you remember me? i met you at a philosophy conference and you showed me your true nature as well as the true nature of apologetics and christian philosophy. I just wanted to thank you for showing me what "christian" philosophy is all about. Thanks to you, I have devoted my life to turning my philosophy students into atheists. you are a FAKE.

[dogmaster05]

Why don't you tell us what happened at that conference? I really want to know. Maybe you did have a crappy paper and he bashed you for it. After all, bashing you for a crappy paper would only show a hatred for lies. I think that's respectable.

[amooballer]

craig said "what i have has ring of truth" and he says that based on what? suppositions and things he conjures up in his head! there are so many logical fallacies in craig's statements that its not even worth mentioning.

[hawchuan]

after all that was said and argued, all you can say is "what about the ring of truth statement?". why just brush aside all the scholarship, research and logical arguements. Why not give some of your own arguements or examples of logical fallacies that are so apparently "not worth mentioning"? You should apply the same high standards on presentation and scholarship on your own comments.

[amooballer]

tell me what happened to the piece of fish after it was done going thru the digestive system of jesus (pbuh) did he shit it out? does god shit? or god piss? does god have a penis, two balls and an anus? astaghforellah.

[dogmaster05]

He probably did take a dump. What's so dirty about recycling that which God created? This reminds me of the stpry where the guy touched the ark of the covenant and was burnt on the spot. There's nothing offensive to God about crap (he created it) but a sinful human is what offends. I don't get what is wrong?

[amooballer]

so if you are an xtian, you have to explain how god can be a shitty god!

[mrfiji84]

lol.. this is all islam is about.. feces.. and urine etc.. lol.. if someone urinates on themselves they dnt enter heaven (bukhari).. Jesus went to the toilet yes He did :) we have no problem with it.. we believe God added human nature to Himself in order to die for our sins as a Man!

[amooballer]

you cant answer can you? its a simple question that applies to ever man. let me see

[mrfiji84]

does God have a throne in islam? i think He does.. does that man He has a bum to sit on the throne?

[amooballer]

this shows that you dont speak arabic, and further more you have not the simplest understanding of arabic AT ALL! god "rose over" the throne... ofcourse this isnt a physical throne and god doesnt have a body to rise or sit. this is a metaphor giving us the understanding that god has kingdom and power over all. now tell me what happened to that piece of fish?

[mrfiji84]

i told you.. Jesus went to the toilet! we have no problem with that! what we do have a problem with is how a prophet could consumate a marriage with a 9 year old girl

[amooballer]

and if he had not gone to the toilet his bowels would have made him fart all day long! LOOK AT THE THINGS YOU ARE ATTRIBUTING TO GOD. BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. seriously. God does not need to rest! god is not a man (numbers 23:18-19), jesus SLEPT, felt hungry, took a dump, most probably had erections when he slept. you attribute such things to GOD? shame on all you crossworshippers.

[hollafront]

lol amooballer, real talk!

[cfrb]

part 6!!!!!!!!!!! dont be late, yous seems to forget about the rest once you upload a part

[IslamicZeras]

i agree, this is very nice.