Carl Sagan & Ann Druyan talk about Saintly Macaques

[ion010101]

But the Macaques merely lack the ability to do anything else. It's not as if they have a choice. They're not consciously deciding on empathy. It's like saying that people with down syndrome are more moral because they didn't drop the A bomb on anyone. They CAN'T drop an A bomb on anyone, so they don't get any credit for that.

[cyborg007ification]

@ion010101 Macaques exhibit the signs of empathy in their brain waves. This has been observed and tested.

[ion010101]

@cyborg007ification I can believe it. I wasn't arguing that this didn't happen, though.

[DoBrigh]

what does this say about the people doing these experiments?



[chinamanspeakenlis]

sub'd...good work.

[chinamanspeakenlis]

i love them both.. 

[Pilaf1984]

Nobody is more religious or less skeptical/secular than those in a totalitarian regime, especially the leaders. You may consider China atheist, and that may be technically true, but they're not methodological naturalists. They're not skeptics. They're not humanists. They're not rationalists.

[Christlovesanimals]

I still think Sagan would electrically shock a Christian if he could get away with it. I personally am not ready to give Sagan a "secular saint" crown.

[7RoseDawson7]

@KWOONBoy I agree with you that experiments are not the same thing, however I also think the point, as Carl said, is that we as humans can't assume that we have the monopoly on morality

[TadRaunch]

"monopoly on ethical behavior" love that

[KWOONBoy]

Look at all the variables in the 2 experiments. The percieved initial compliance of the fellow participants and the plausible deniability created by the authority in the Milgram experiment. The macaque experiment contains a clear notion of personal gain for cruelty upon an unwilling participant. If humans were presented with the same factors I think our inherent sense of justice would kick in and we'd act very differently than in Milgram's famous experiment.

[kakamana1000]

@KWOONBoy

If you believe that then you have more faith in our species than I do. However, I would hope you are correct...

[KWOONBoy]

I respect Carl Sagan greatly and my favorite love story is that of him and Ann Druyan, however I disagree with their conclusion based on these 2 experiments. These are not the same thing. One experiment shows that a majority of people will comply with an authority and push a button clearly inflicing pain upon an initially willing participant. The Macaque experiment shows that these primates will choose to starve rather than inflict pain for their own gain. I can see many people doing the same.

[spykerhond]

..."Asimbonanga

Asimbonang 'umfowethu thina (we have not seen our brother)

Laph'ekhona (In the place where he is)

Laph'wafela khona (In the place where he died)

Hey wena (Hey you!)

Hey wena nawe (Hey you and you as well)

Siyofika nini la' siyakhona (When will we arrive at our destination)"...

[florisv59]

Thank you for the insightful video, even if it's so very sobering.

[Jochitko]

Very interesting and inspiring facts are being brought up here, thanks for sharing!

[1IS1ful]

thanks for everybody be with us in careful

thanks for all, who gave their lifes

were many many thousands...

and everybody is eating our expiriments with his food every day

[nukeum2]

Ann Druyan was his wife? I never knew that,

Ann Sagan?

[TelevisionPirate]

I think she always kept her name, and I think Carl had two wives. But she was his last love. You can tell when she brings him up in more recent interviews that she misses him dearly.

So does the world....

[ShroedingerWatcher]

The moral argument for animal rights. I wonder exactly how long this has been going on for now?

Did any viewer ask themselves: Why did they allow those experiments in the first place?

Old vivisector: For scientific research.

Real answer: To desensitize people into accepting the use of animals for "research." (By ignoring the description in particular of what they did to them). Just like today.

[42foxfire]

Thank you vegyrex, for making this available. I get really tired of hearing how only humans understand morality, bestowed upon them by the magic sky-fairy they invented in their own image.

[JohnnyKubark]

This is brilliant.

[flyingsod]

Very cool. I take this as evidence that morality may be instinctual. Those that claim that morality only comes from religion need to see this. Thanks for posting and I would love to hear the whole thing.

[vegyrex]

The whole interview is up and ready for listening ;)

I have another radio interview with Carl. I hope to get that one up soon.

[Christlovesanimals]

@flyingsod Yeah, perhaps you can dial up the Chinese (the cruelest country in the world) who are officially atheistic and tell them all about the "no need for religion" thingy. I'm sure they'll be glad to hear what you have to say.

Get real please. I have no idea who says that "morality only comes from religion" other than the possibility that it is in "the YT atheist primer."

[flyingsod]

@Christlovesanimals Hi. Where did you learn that china is the cruelest country in the world? Maybe Sudan or Turkey are trying to distract attention from themselves eh? The "we need god to give us morals" argument pops up now and then in religious debates. I find it hard to believe you've never heard it if you ever watch or listen to such things. I wasn't erecting a straw man I promise you.

[Christlovesanimals]

@flyingsod Do they eat dogs and cats in Turkey or the Sudan? Do they skin animals ALIVE for fur to sell around the world?

>The "we need god to give us morals" argument pops up now and then in religious debates.< And this has WHAT to do , literally, with the price of dog meat in China?

Please send me a link where they eat dogs in Turkey. I was just in Turkey five years ago and they have some of the most delicious vegetarian food I've ever tasted.

[zeno57]

This explains why our cops beat the heck out or citizens like a gang of thugs.But watch the y/t vid of the cop that handcuff a man to his wheelchair then beats him down,I dont think thats good.

[kjg28]

Thanks so much for the interview! Do you know if there is any more?

[vegyrex]

The whole interview is about 80 minutes long. I'll try to post whole thing soon. :)

[kjg28]

Awesome. I look forward to it.

[sirkamon]

Do you happen to know who they were being interviewed by?

[vegyrex]

Yes, his name is Milt Rosenberg.

[sirkamon]

Thank you. :)

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

You have done us, and other species, a great thing by saving this interview and sharing it.