Sequence of Five 3 quarter tones in persian music is a perfect 5th! 3/4 tone = 140 cents

[troglodyto]

whic of these tones is not found in western typical 12-tone music? or are they all found on the piano keyboard?

[akamarutv]

I understand it helps to know about tuning ratios and math but am I the only one who goes about microtonal without math and tuning numbers and learns by ear alone.

[akamarutv]

Awesome, this really helps me learn to play quarter tones on my guitar but I have to bend the notes so it's difficult to learn but I love the sound of 3/4 tones!

[goodcyrus]

@RSwordIAAA Uhhhh ... Whole tone is 200 cents sir. Half tone is 100. persians have called this particular interval 3/4 tone and that name is stuck. But it is 140 cents really.

[RSwordIAAA]

(cont) which is cool, but there are a large number of "new" diatonic scales- to replace the diatonic scale like Myna, and Orwell, and Mavila (anti-diatonic/inside out diatonic) for example... So remember that you can use these old intervals for new music also - new diatonic scales etc

[goodcyrus]

@RSwordIAAA Watch my video watch?v=Cu9MOPi8q6g

I write experimental music and would love to be dazzled by good examples of Xenharmonic music but I am yet to be impressed by it. Theories are great but they need to produce great results to get attention. The use of the term "harmonic" in most equal temperament music is a misnomer to me even if you think of harmonics in 3d objects. Just my opinion.

[RSwordIAAA]

@goodcyrus You should maybe then check out greats like Giacinto Scelsi, Alois Haba, Ivan Wyschnegradsky, Ben Johnston, Ervin Wilson, Kraig Grady, Harry Partch, etc. Composers of new music like Bohlen Pierce non octave scale would be like George Hajdu, whos compositions are beautiful and dazzling to say the least. Its there you just have to look for it. If you think equal temperament doesnt approximate harmonics- tell that to Wagner and many many others.. Maybe Read Paul Erlichs papers-

[RSwordIAAA]

@RSwordIAAA Add to list Lou Harrison, Morton Feldman, Tristin Murrail, Gerard Grisey, George Crumb, etc

[RSwordIAAA]

@goodcyrus So what im getting at is if you use microtones to only ornament 5-limit harmony and don't explore higher harmonics in the overtone series you're not getting the most you can in the microtonal realm. Paul erlichs paper "A middle Path between Just Intonation and Equal Temperament" lays it out. You can find it easy online. It's probably one of the most important music papers of our time. just remember *all* ET's approximate different intervals in the harmonic series - some more complex

[RSwordIAAA]

You can play 3/4 tones on 16-equal divisions of the octave (instead of 12) which also add to the fifth....in 17-equal (called the arabic temperament by halmholtz) you can play 1/3 tones but the neutral thirds add up to the fifth......there are a few other temperaments that can do this also with a small number of manageable tones. another great aspect of 16-equal is approximation to 7/4 and 11/6... It seems to me alot of people get into microtonality for the traditional scales

[goodcyrus]

@RSwordIAAA If you watch this video carefully, you notice what is called 3/4 tone in this style of music is actually 140 cents which you can get in 17-equal temperament. 

[Feesharp9er]

WOW!

[Sensenwerk]

Wow, just suscribed to your channel.

Thanks for sharing your "not typical" music knowledge. I love to absorb every single bit of information about music I can get.

[RSwordIAAA]

@Sensenwerk then maybe you would like to check out the tuning list, math tuning and microtonal theory forums on yahoo - which have been going for a decade strong with some of the worlds most esteemed theorists. another cool place is xenharmonic wikispaces which is an excellent resource for learning microtonal theory

[kamancheh]

Thanks for sharing your wonderful knowledge and insights. I always find the lessons delightful and feel like I am drinking another cup of water from the ocean of Persian music.

[eirdway]

I don't think anyone could appreciate Partch without either sharing his insanity, or being bowled over what I imagine is the huge power of the live performances. His love of cumbersome, complicated monstrosity was the antithesis of Persian aesthetics.

Shoari uses some guitar technique. I am more interested in trying to use the thumb to move the drone, dutar style, while crossing on the other 2 strings to play a melody. Hard to make that sound good, though.

[peybak]

I bought a Rohab tuner last year but haven't used it much. It's got a bunch of very nice functions, like bemol/diez tuning as well as rythm meters. I like your research vidoes. Keep exploring!

[eirdway]

I find this very interesting, although I think in ratios rather than cents. I've noticed some setars that look like they're approximating 5/4 and 6/5 for mi bekar and bemol, so the frets are much nearer than in ET. I like 7/6 for mi bemol, but I think that's even lower than yours. What about diez?

And why this interest in quasi-ET for modal music? Modulation or polyphony or something? Or just simplicity?

[goodcyrus]

It just happens to be that way. I am just reporting my measurements over the years. So no push for temperament here. However free modulation is great if it doesn't come at a great compromise.

[goodcyrus]

In ratios: a 3/4 tone interval is a pitch or string ratio of 13/12 and five times that in ratios means (13/12) to the 5th power which is a 3/2 ratio. (13/12)^2 is 1.17 which is slightly less than 6/5=1.2.

Btw, our discussion about Partch got me to look him up on youtube. He was an interesting character with great ideas. i got to appreciate him a lot more though i didn't find his compositions too interesting.