Spanking Versus Permissiveness - Philosophical Parenting

[CliveGains80s]

a kid is better of spanked then fed psychiatric drugs.

when we where naughty we where spanked. At no stage Did Dad or Mum say you have a disease and took as too the Shed to ingest us with the do not touch poisons for are behaviors.or behaviors..

This is about socialism. Only the government will control your kids. The government thinks your kids are there property.

[karmamichele]

I reject to the idea of using aggression, it is just pointless. ;)

[dubified89]

I would smack their hand away from a boiling stove just like I would grab them if they tried to run into traffic. That's not the same as spanking. Spanking is sick.

[iluv2rant]

YOU CAN'T REASON WITH 3 YEAR OLDS.IF THEY THROW TEMPER TANTRUMS IN PUBLIC THEY NEED SPANKINGS.KIDS TODAY KNOW NOTHING OF RESPECT,DUE TO THE LACK OF DISIPLINE.....YOU ARE WELL SPOKEN BUT I DON'T AGREE.

[maegov]

With some kids, one must engage the "reptilian" side of the brain, even if one can reason with them. I do tend to think now that my parents had better spanked me with the electr. socket situation. And while there were situation where I think spanking was wrong or wrongly applied, sometimes it's a good thing to have this mechanical almost reaction - electricity - don't touch - not good. As it happened, for me, with the stove. But in the case of electicity a spak would be better than death.

[maegov]

I was spanked few times when I was a kid but I always tend to remember the times I was not (like with the stove). Or like the time my parents told me not to put my fingers in the socket. Of course I tired to do it. Then they bought socket lids, which I would always take off. Still they didn't spank me. But it really was divine protection that kept me from being electrocuted, as the socket was one of my favourite playing spots.

[maegov]

You're delusional: when I was little I was being told always in advance: don't put your hand on the hot masonry heater/stove (yeah we had those, it was an old house), because it will burn you. I understood that it might burn me but curiosity got the better of me. The irrational thought that maybe it wouldn't burn as much got in my head and of course I touched the stove. And it was the pain felt when I touched it that made me never touch it again. You just have a very good well behaved child.

[suziecreamchease]

"It takes a clever daughter to reveal how clever her father is...

but it takes a dog to let a fool pretend that he is master"

Rudyard kipling

[IllichSketchShow]

I share all these videos on peaceful parenting on facebook but this doesn't ahve 100th of the views it should - what can we do?

[insyzygyy]

I think you need to write a parenting book. I would buy it.

[BmovieBaby]

all you need is a perfect balance of love and discipline

[TheTrenchface]

I'm glad there are still some good parents around like yourself! This info was good enough to pay money for :D

[annewilken]

Beautiful, in action it works. I am sorry to see people scoff, truly in action it is wonderful. A bright 18mo yr old child is mistaken for three! In action beautiful! Thx! Love to hear the love!

[smartiepancake]

There's premeditated aggression like spanking, there's unpremediated aggression like rough handling, there's disguised aggression like over-tickling. It's not so either/or as presented here. When tigers play they get scratched, but its ok, we're tigers.

[NivoUF]

00:02

\m/

[thekoollemon]

do you send your daughter to public school?

[thestonemaster81]

However, They dont get spanked anymore. Thought you mite want to know.

[stefbot]

@thestonemaster81 that is wonderful to hear, thank you so much, congratulations! :)

[thestonemaster81]

I have to thank you. I have to say I thought spanking was the way to raise a child. two reasons 1) you get results right away. 2) no one showed another way. ( I see other parents begging and screeming living in hell. So I felt spanking was the way. You count 1,2,3,(giving them time to corect thier behaver) and if they dont listen spank one or two swat on the behind explain why they were punished tell them I love them. I know you must crinch when I tell you this.

[CaptainLazerus]

I know many things, but understand only some of them. I would need to touch the boiling water to understand what you mean by "it will hurt". I'm not uncommon.

Avoiding the subject of boiling water by cooking something else is essentially the same thing as bailing out a failing bank. Eventually, understanding of "it will hurt" will need to be obtained. Kicking the can is not resolution.

[derekaiton]

Why the hell is this even a debate

[YourHeartIsTheKey]

but if you dont smack your kids they won't be hard.

[Godophobe]

Actually, do chimps spank?

[Godophobe]

An alternative to spanking is to not breed and screw up life for everyone else. Problem avoided!

[ace1sod]

i think you have some good ideas,,but when your child becomes a teenager and realizes that no matter what they do all that will happen is that you will try to reason with them and thats all the punishment they will ever receive, then they will simply do whatever they want.

when her peers try to get her to do something she will say sure why not,,its not like im going to get in any trouble, my dad will just talk to me so big deal.

[xxCrazySmooth]

God how many mics do you have?

[umadumLib]

@stefbot Thank you for this video. I rarely spank my children, but ive been resorting to yelling and screaming at the drop of hat, I see the effects of it in them. I needed a different way of looking at things and this video has helped with that. With going through a divorce, and the kids being 3 & 5 years old they need to be focused on and rationed with more than ever. So thank you for some much needed insight.

[HereForResearch]

I have no kids, but I will definitely use these kind of principles. My problem is with the kids I work with. They have already been abused and everything is violence to them. Any ideas on how to rewire there brains? HELP!!! I hate using force to get them to do something simple like pee in the toilet.

[DackIsBack]

Hmm, so... when do I give my child his or her first joint? lulz

[DackIsBack]

I'm not against spanking, In fact, you could say I'm Pro-Spanking...

As long as all parties involved are consenting adults... ;p

[LivingRawInMuscle]

nahhh! im just bullshiting. spanking make your kids is terrible. it puts fear in there lives and make the act out in aggresion towards siblings, pets, friends, and probaly future husbands and wives; and if some weirdos to nice and say those evil words," i understand...." your kid'll be making a terrible trip to mr. weirdos apartment. :( Moral of the story.... don't spank your kids. it creates aggressive crazes kids looking for affection.

[LivingRawInMuscle]

I don't have children nor' am i old too. i received spanking until i was around 7 or 8, now 16, and i never found it a terrible thing, but then again it also depends on the parents. so over do it as I've seen threw what many of my friends speek of; many parent spank near beat their children over running, talking, being to loud ect.

[bossduff]

Thank you

[vspqbd]

Damn, only one dislike despite the hoards of pro-spanking wankers (pun unintended). Very good.

[waksibra]

I'm never gonna have kids. too hard i say.

[btigtime2]

Reasoning with a 2 year old is just silly. I don't spank often, but to use only reason to talk to 2-3 year old children, really? You are trying to reason with yourself and punish yourself as a prop for controlling your child. When I was a child I hoped to skip the lecture and just get the spanking, because the lecture was worst. I have a neighbor 4 yr boy who if given the chance I would beat him on a regularly bases, they use your wishy washy child empowerment method. I shake my head.

[ytrogergt]

What's this with the headphones and microphone? Looks fake to me. And pretentious.

[agun17]

@ytrogergt

How is it pretentious that he bought a headset so you could hear him better?

[CO2TROL]

This is all great, but many parents are ignorant, plain unintelligent, selfish and not very capable. Often they have very unstable lives due to poverty and/or incredibly stressful long working hours. When they get home they are finished, they function on automatic and end up treating misbehaving children like a non-functioning microwave while trying to prepare kraft dinner -- with frustration, anger, rage, yelling, swearing, bashing and throwing of plates. If you can't afford one, don't have one

[PDzero]

@TheKenTerry I'll tell you one similarity between hitting an spanking. They are both acts of violence. Unless violence is used only for self-desfense, you can never argue in favor of it. Not if it's fist in your face, or a slap on the wrist. If you truly were an "asshole" as a child, that's product of the kind of ( social ) environment you grew up in. The inability of you parents, family members etc. the adequately raise you. No one is born an asshole. Stop trying to justify the use of force.

[COGKevin333]

GIVE UP GAMES! oh dear that is just insane! jk lol

[quantumG]

The original comment was mine. I don't have kids, but I do have to listen to children acting like little monsters in public. It's intolerable to watch permissive parents ask their children if they want to stop or, worse yet, just ignoring their horrible behavior. Tell them to act appropriately in public or don't take them outside.

[kevin77v]

@quantumG They are just showing the same lack of respect to others that their own parents give to them

[quantumG]

@kevin77v I could buy that argument, but that's a reason to be a better role model.. not an excuse to ignore your child's bad behavior.

[kevin77v]

@quantumG I agree. What is unfortunately is that they should have done that long before that moment.

[MarkoVojvodic84]

Satans hand sign at the beggining.

[LukeCoulson]

Highly commendable (apart from using the word spanking a lot more than the word permissive). And; I'm getting that you parade around on the poop deck (of the super tanker) in full body (fluorescent paisley) pyjamas (Do they make them in your size?). But seriously; Highly commendable: Inventively affimative.

[cobra1518]

if it asks to be spanked, it shall be

[JennJenification]

That kid's gonna be effing brilliant.

[stefbot]

@JennJenification already is :)

[MoneyIsSilver]

I wonder how Stef's parenting philosophy will change when he has a boy. In my experience, girl toddlers generally are much more compliant in the family structure particularly when told what to do by their fathers. They might not like it, but they definitely don't have the rebelliousness of a 2-5yo boy. There are times with young boys that you are completely wasting your time trying to reason with them.

[Sivels]

@MoneyIsSilver use incentives...

[MoneyIsSilver]

@Sivels yeah, I don't do bribes with a child. Unless a child can leave the home and go out on their own, they have to follow the rules of their parents while living in their home. I don't play "let's make a deal" with a 3yo.

You and Stef are both giving kids way too much credit as far as their sense of decency, fairness, and logic. He'll understand better when he has a little boy who wants to do whatever and not a little girl who likes making daddy happy.

[Sivels]

@MoneyIsSilver so if you cannot properly reason with someone (and someone one fifth your size), aggression is justified? Does that work with adults too?

[MoneyIsSilver]

@Sivels actually, it does work with adults too and is necessary when adults are violating the N.A.P. and being incorrigible. You just helped my argument actually. There are adults that are just incorrigible too, so of course there will be children that are. There's a difference between the violating the N.A.P. and the use of force. If a child is not listening and won't respond to verbal requests or reasoning while engaging in destructive, force can be necessary.

[Sivels]

@MoneyIsSilver "If a child is not listening and won't respond to verbal requests or reasoning while engaging in destructive, force can be necessary." again, maybe you can justify forcibly stop what a child is doing, but that's not the same as correcting bad behaviour.

[MoneyIsSilver]

@Sivels and when that child keeps doing the destructive behavior, because they know they get attention from you, and you realize you can't always be there to forcibly stop them, is that when you're going to try reasoning with a 3yo?

[MoneyIsSilver]

@Sivels Bringing up the size is silly. No one is talking about picking a fight with a child and beating them up. What we're talking about is necessary correction for a 3yo who often doesn't listen to reason. Children aren't born with a sense of justice - they're often cruel and if children were 5 times bigger than us they would be terrible tyrants.

The family isn't a democratic unit - its a family, and the man is the head of state within his domicile.

[newperve]

@MoneyIsSilver Lots of people are picking fights with children and beating them up. I am not surprised that your child doesn't listen to reason if you use force against her. Children understand reason from a very early age as shown in "The Philosophical Baby" by Alison Gopnik. In case you haven't noticed non-democratic states (and indeed democratic ones) don't work that well. Why impose them on those you supposedly love?

[MoneyIsSilver]

@newperve " Children understand reason from a very early age as shown in "The Philosophical Baby" by Alison Gopnik."

LMAO..you'll believe anything you read by some college brainwashed idiot. The family is not the same as the state. It's not a democracy or a republic. Children don't get the same vote as their parents. If you think a 3yo is reasonable...well, I guess that makes sense given your arguments. (Democracies are the worst btw)

[newperve]

@MoneyIsSilver I see so you conclude that someone is a "brainwashed idiot" based on your disagreement with their conclusions, which you have not read. Your disagreement is based soley on your experience with children whose parents don't try to use reason with their children I would guess. And yet you imply I'm the one not being reasonable.

[MoneyIsSilver]

@newperve yup, because people who go to college are brainwashed. "The Philosophical Baby"...LOL..that's the dumbest shit I ever heard. Why would I waste time arguing with you?

[newperve]

@MoneyIsSilver You're not arguing with me. You're simply stating that what I say is stupid without any evidence or attempt at argument. You're not even attempting to find out if the source i give is credible, you just dismiss it because you disagree with it.

[MoneyIsSilver]

@newperve "You're not arguing with me." DUH! That's what I just said - I don't debate monkeys that just repeat what I just told them. The burden of proof is on you anyway to prove there are philosophic babies..lmao..that really is some stupid shit.

[makingachanneltocomm]

@MoneyIsSilver You don't debate anyone, you simply make ignorant statements to simplify your world and validate your own beliefs... is a two year old philosophical? I agree, that's a stretch... but that doesn't mean you can't reason with one. Trying reason instead of anger and aggression might make for a more reasonable less violent society

[MoneyIsSilver]

@makingachanneltocomm I don't debate with those that CAN'T reason, and anyone who uses a book called "The Philosophical Baby" as his proof is not worth arguing.

From experience, every anarchist I've met was pretty much abused as a child, and every hardcore statist I've met was spoiled and never spanked. So as far as I can tell, Stef's theory on spanking is shit. My dad hit out of anger, not discipline, and it formed a distrust of authority as I grew older.

[MoneyIsSilver]

@makingachanneltocomm The idea that we won't have the state anymore if we all stop spanking our children is a non solution.

[leafwatch]

@MoneyIsSilver  If we all stopped using violence, what would there be for a State to do that peaceable, cooperative individuals could not do, singly and in communities?

[MoneyIsSilver]

@leafwatch same thing they do now - oppress us. The idea that people who aren't spanked become non statist and non aggressive is completely unfounded and just not true.

The most hardcore statists I know of WERE NOT spanked as children. The biggest anarchists I know are people who had bad childhoods, often getting beaten. Stef's theories in this regard are just bullshit.

[TSMPimpDaddyPain]

@MoneyIsSilver I'm not sure I've heard him make that big leap. I believe I heard him say in a video that statism will seem less normal, more foreign to them if aggression wasn't used against them as a child.

[MoneyIsSilver]

@TSMPimpDaddyPain ..and its completely unfounded. I'm pretty much regarded as one of the biggest rebels in Colorado. I ran the Ron Paul movement out here. I was the Liberty Dollar RCO. I'm the one who started passing out Freedom to Fascism at the Post Office on tax day.

I got the crap beat out of me as a kid. I didn't see it as normal then, nor do I now. However, it gave me a dose of the harshness of reality, while children who are sheltered by their parents tend to think more utopian.

[TSMPimpDaddyPain]

@MoneyIsSilver keep up the good work for liberty. I'm not sure if it is or isn't "completely unfounded". There are so few people that I have come across that weren't spanked as children, that I don't have a big enough sample size to test the theory. I would have to think at least by a certain age a kid would put 2 and 2 together....i.e., "My parents don't physically harm me when I disobey, so why does the government?"

[newperve]

@MoneyIsSilver Why is the burden of proof on me? We both have claims, you that babies can't reason and me that they can. You haven't put forward any evidence for your case. I have listed a source that you have no interest in pursuing. I could point you to /watch?v=TveUtpRQzXM with Stef talking to her. But you're not interested, you just want to redicule me because I disagree. I suspect deep down you know you're wrong, otherwise why not engage in debate?

[MoneyIsSilver]

@newperve I have no interest because I know this line of reasoning is bullshit. The only anarchists I know of were spanked if not beaten as children. The people I know that are the biggest statists came from liberal families where they never got spanked.

Stef's theory on this that he used university studies for (federally subsidized universities), is complete rubbish and he won't debate it cause he knows it too in his heart.

[newperve]

@MoneyIsSilver You have no interest because you know I'm right. If you actually thought that you were right you would produce evidence. Instead all you've done is try to imply that because someone comes from a university they are automatically wrong and that your unverifiable anecdotal evidence is reliable. Stef is entirely willing to debate it, if you have actual arguments..

[dubified89]

@MoneyIsSilver Where people fuck up is they take it all personally that a 3 year old isn't reasonable and take out all this needless aggression on them, rather than only using force when it's necessary and not for pleasure.

[landlogger]

Shamefully simplistic view.

[regresseur]

@landlogger Ya, too bad he couldn't make multiple hours-long videos to appease you and avoid your petty-arsed criticism. Oh wait - you'd just come up with another one, regardless. Are his ideas right or wrong? Are they valid or invalid? And why or why not? It is ironic that you call his "view" shamefully simplistic when you yourself have posted a vapid 3-word sentence in response to an 11.15-minute video full of assertions and arguments for you to comment on any which way you like.

[landlogger]

@regresseur Yah, a regressive judgmental type. I knew it. I don't intend to type for 11 minutes on what should be simply seen and questioned. Gezz!

[tillman40]

The flaw here is that we assume kids always, always respond to logic and reason...they don't....

[regresseur]

@tillman40

The flaw here is in pretending that somewhere in this video he argued that, which he did not. In fact he expresses here the complete opposite - these things take time and that you have to be patient. And in any case he would never say something so obviously absolutist, and thus wrong, on such a cut-and-dry issue.

[erdal0]

Most parents are working their ass off to pay the bills.. they aint sitting at home like you doing nothing. Most parents can't take half an hour of time to explain every small thing. I seriously can't believe people take you serious.

[westsidazrhidaz]

It's simple Stefan, you said it between the lines but at the end of the day, people spank their kids and give them drugs because...it's easier. It's easier than explaining to the kid over and over, its easier giving them brain mashing drugs to make them docile than finding alternative ways of teaching.

People are lazy man!

[newperve]

@westsidazrhidaz The problem with that idea is that it isn't easier. In the long run a destructive, opportunistic, parasitic, dependent, emotionally stunted child is a lot more work than a healthy, happy, creative one.

[mccoya2]

'your child is  the echo of your actions' - very well said.

[HumbleYankee]

"If you have the ability to magically counterfeit, you stop working for a living. In other words you've joined the Federal Reserve."

Absolute gold, stealing this but giving you credit :D

[TheKenTerry]

I was spanked, and when I have a kid i'll do the same when deserved. People don't realize how well time out or making them put thier hands on the wall works, but spanking does help in some circumstances. For instance, I used to had ADD until my dad spanked me, that saved thousands of dollars in pills :-). That last one was a joke...I mean it was true...but whatever haha...i'm just saying spanking is sometimes needed.

[PDzero]

@TheKenTerry

*Sigh* I don't want to sound like a "Molyneux Sheep" BUT as Stefan always says "You cannot justify hitting someone who is one-third your hight and only has 20% of your own brain capacity.

Whenever you hit a child YOU are the weakest link.

[TheKenTerry]

@PDzero

Now there is a huge difference between hitting and spanking, i'm not punching a retarded midget in the face. I'm saying when I was a kid I was an asshole sometimes, and when my dad told me several times to stop and I wouldn't comply he would spank me. It's not like he did it everytime, he only did it when it was necessary.

[regresseur]

@TheKenTerry But it's never necessary. Sustenance is necessary, oxygen is necessary, sleep is necessary - beating children is not. And the term "asshole" is meaningless.

[TheKenTerry]

@regresseur

oh god...are we going to play a semantic game? This is the number one thing I dislike about "philosophers" It's all semantics to you guys.

[PDzero]

@TheKenTerry I'll tell you one similarity between hitting an spanking. They are both acts of violence. Unless violence is used only for self-desfense, you can never argue in favor of it. Not if it's fist in your face, or a slap on the wrist. If you truly were an "asshole" as a child, that's product of the kind of ( social ) environment you grew up in. The inability of you parents, family members etc. the adequately raise you. No one is born an asshole. Stop trying to justify the use of force.

[reasonnotgod]

the more i watch your videos the more drawn in to your way of thinking i get. I still have big questions over the anarchy side of things...but on parenting, i am with you 100%

[Edgrot]

Right no violence that's the ticket but what is it you do with evil. Oh yeah try to talk to them while they kill you. A child in the teen years does exactly what it wants to do no matter how much freeking gas you blow out your lips. Your idea is to change everything you do so your child doesn't have to learn dicipline yeah great idea bud. Someday you will understand bud someday.

[PluralOfEverything]

@Edgrot Abuse is not discipline. Beating a child only teaches him/her that it's okay to bully people smaller than him/her. Teenagers are about as big as their parents. If the only "discipline" they've received is abuse because they were smaller, they will not respect their parents on the grounds that one does not have to respect people smaller than they are.

[Draginvry2]

@PluralOfEverything

I agree. I think the only thing I learned from being spanked is that it's OK to use violence to get what you want, especially if you have weapons (my dad used a belt)

[PluralOfEverything]

@Draginvry2 So did mine. Fortunately, that stopped after a while and didn't escalate.

[MoneyIsSilver]

@PluralOfEverything I would say "discipline us not abuse". ...and for a 3yo who doesn't understand reasoning, and shouldn't be questioning their parents in the first place, a spanking (not a beating) is just discipline.

[PluralOfEverything]

@MoneyIsSilver How is it just to punish a child in any way for questioning his or her parents? It's not wrong to question. If you think there is a difference between spanking and beating, then you are a bad parent, and I'm glad I'm not your kid.

[Baddaification]

Excellent stuff, although there's too many slaves out there who will lose there slave jobs which feed there slave kids , if it takes 2 hours to reason with there children everyday to just get dressed. Mental ' chains ' else where can dictate force within the family home. :(

[PluralOfEverything]

@Baddaification It would be nice if parents understood that their children are more important than their jobs.

[Baddaification]

@PluralOfEverything  That much is blatantly obvious , There's too many catch 22's in the world

[PhysicsFollower]

It's good to see someone who takes parenting seriously. I think the main problem people have is that they don't commit to being a parent. If you don't think you can give up the time to reason with a child and instead you resort to hitting you really shouldn't have the child in the first place. I am not a parent yet but my fiance and I are making real plans and saving money so that we can provide for our children financially, mentally, physically and emotionally.

[seeqr9]

Reasoning is the foundation of my parenting style as well tho i do disagree a bit with some of this reasoning.

[CoolCollectableToys]

lol...whats with the hand sign Stefan ?

[shlockofgod]

@SkillzUnknown "But i still think sometimes u gotta check a bad ass kid with a smack!"

What's a bad-ass kid?

[PluralOfEverything]

@shlockofgod A kid with a flabby ass.

[PluralOfEverything]

I tried porridge once. Actually three times. Then the bears came home and chased me away.

[Urhoboman5]

That's another thing. I'm a huge advocate of setting rules AND explaining what the rules are AND explaining WHY the rules are in place. Too many times I see people set rules, never explain them or why they're in existence. Then we're supposed to follow those rules blindly. I HATE that!!! X-(

[YJohannM]

Parenting actually sounds like work that involves reason, problem solving and logical thinking...

Maybe that's why good parenting is so universally lacking. LOL

[gerryboy3699]

thanks

[Urhoboman5]

2 questions to Stefan Molyneux.

1. Have you ever heard of the idea of "ancient unconscious trauma"? It's the idea that tens of thousands of years ago humans suffered from freakishly violent events. Being hunted, ancient mass wars, earth catastrophes etc. It's very interesting. Some believe that this is where human violence originated from.

2. Do you also believe that ALL humans at some point in our lives mimic the entity that was violent towards us?

Peace Stefan :-)

[landlogger]

@Urhoboman5 All trauma/ memory/ fear is locked in our cells and moves down through the generations. That is in part why we can't mold people like clay. They will have their own path/ trials. Other forces are present in each of us. Humans have the ability to transform energy and each generation has an opportunity to do this not only for ourselves but for our ancestors, It is their gift to us really. and a curse of sorts. It is time. We have reached that point. don't put straight jackets ..

[landlogger]

@Urhoboman5 2: on that gift.We certainly know that you can send a sweet child out in the world and their peers can lift or destroy what you have attempted to plant. Child suicide tells us that. All kinds of studies have been done on to spank or not to spank. As usual there is no agreement. Past times kids have done very well for the world even though spanking was in vogue. Let them be their intention and love them no matter what. Keep it simple Mom and Dad. or you'll end up with a neurotic.

[depublished]

this is a cool concept which I also use in parenting my kids - it really works fine

[dannyv233]

why do you buy from apple they are a horrible company

[cchessmaster]

How about your childhood Stef, did you get spanked?